On 06-14-19 15:07, Bj”rn Felten wrote to Dale Shipp <=-

So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

Then you know wrong.

With a tunnel like e.g. he.net you get a stable IPv6 address
regardless of what your ISP can offer you. It takes less than a minute
to get one. If your IPv4 address changes, it takes only seconds to
update your IPv6 -- much faster than updating your IPv4 via various TTL settings at all DNS servers involved...

I've had a reliable IPv6 connection for almost 15 years now -- and
I'm still waiting for my ISP to offer me a "native" IPv6 address.

Tunneling, by its nature, offers less efficient routing and possibly slower throughput, due to suboptimal routing, but depending on your location, you may be able to mitigate this by choosing a POP as close as possible to your location. This had been an issue for me, because a lot of tunnel providers didn't offer POPs in Australia, meaning really slow routing (adding 200+ mS to RTTs. All academic for me now, because my IPv6 has been native since 2011, and
for my BBSs, they have better network performance on IPv6, because their IPv4 addresses are brought in over an OpenVPN tunnel!

But yes, he.net's 6in4 tunneling is one of the best options available. I used to use it for a US based VPS that didn't have native IPv6.


... Silence cannot be misquoted.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

On 06-14-19 02:45, Dale Shipp wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

You can always get a tunnel, which is independent of your ISP, or switch ISPs, if netive IPv6 is important to you (and someone in your area offers it).


... I was abducted by aliens and all I got was this lousy implant.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

On 06-14-19 06:49, Nick Andre wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

But the nodelist is just a text file that lists connectivity
information. It has nothing to do with what IP addressing scheme is the current fad of the time.

My entry in the nodelist is simply a hostname, which can be reached on IPv4 and
IPv6. The nodelist doesn't care. It's the DNS records that advertise the connectivity options (A record for IPv4, AAAA for IPv6). My Fidonet nodelisted
binkp hostname has both A and AAAA records, and I doubt any nodelist processing
software has barfed on it. :)

In the 1980's the connectivity fad was dialup modems. Its 2019 and I
still see them listed. Including mine.

I don't have one of those nowadays, though sometimes, I'm tempted to put up a modem on VoIP as an experiment. But I seriously doubt it will get any callers.


... Hangnail: Coat hook.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

On 06-14-19 15:07, Bj”rn Felten <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about IPv6 connectivity <=-

So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

Then you know wrong.

With a tunnel like e.g. he.net you get a stable IPv6
address regardless of what your ISP can offer you. It takes
less than a minute to get one. If your IPv4 address
changes, it takes only seconds to update your IPv6 -- much
faster than updating your IPv4 via various TTL settings at
all DNS servers involved...

I've had a reliable IPv6 connection for almost 15 years now -- and
I'm still waiting for my ISP to offer me a "native" IPv6
address.

OK -- but the real question for me is why should I do that? I do
understand the fact that IPv4 addresses are running out, and the reason
for going to IPv6 -- but so long as I get a reliable connection using
IPv4, why bother jumping through extra hoops?

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:45:34, 15 Jun 2019
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 06-15-19 00:52, Lee Lofaso <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ten Years Ago <=-

So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

Publishers will be forced to go to IPv6 in the near future.
In which case you will have no choice.
Unless you want to use your system as a boat anchor.

My computer has IPv6 drivers and software -- whenever my ISP decides to
use it, (or is forced to use it), my computer should be able to handle
it. Until then, why should I worry?

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 02:57:31, 15 Jun 2019
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

On 06-15-19 11:19, Tony Langdon <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Ten Years Ago <=-

So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

You can always get a tunnel, which is independent of your ISP, or
switch ISPs, if netive IPv6 is important to you (and someone in your
area offers it).

My real question is why should I? At the moment I can do anything I
want to do using what my ISP provides, which is IPv4. It is not
important to me and I am certainly not going to switch my ISP anytime
soon.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 03:00:14, 15 Jun 2019
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Hello Tony,

On Saturday June 15 2019 11:24, you wrote:

I don't have one of those nowadays, though sometimes, I'm tempted to
put up a modem on VoIP as an experiment. But I seriously doubt it
will get any callers.

When I ran Irex in combination with InterMail, I had a POTS modem connected to the VOIP port of the Motorrola surfboard cable modem provided by my ISP. It worked but milage varied. I usually got around 20K with and occasional 24K and sometimes dropping to 2400 Bps. Other than the few I provoked for testing I didn't get any incoming calls for a period of five years and so when I converted my system from Frodo style to BSO, I didn't bother to reinstall the POTS stuff. That was about ten years ago. Since then I am IP only. I don't miss POTS.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hi Björn.

14 Jun 19 15:07:52, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

So far as I know, the decision is not up to me, but to my ISP.

Then you know wrong.

With a tunnel like e.g. he.net you get a stable IPv6 address

regardless

of what your ISP can offer you. It takes less than a minute to get one.

If

your IPv4 address changes, it takes only seconds to update your IPv6 -- much faster than updating your IPv4 via various TTL settings at all DNS servers involved...

I've had a reliable IPv6 connection for almost 15 years now

And still after 15 years of "reliable ipv6 connection" :

tommi@rpi:~$ telnet -6 eljaco.se 119
Trying 2001:470:27:302::2...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
tommi@rpi:~$

:D

'Tommi

---
* Origin: *** nntp://fidonews.mine.nu *** (2:221/6)

On 06-15-19 02:58, Dale Shipp wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

My real question is why should I? At the moment I can do anything I
want to do using what my ISP provides, which is IPv4. It is not
important to me and I am certainly not going to switch my ISP anytime soon.

Well, it depends how quickly public IPv4 addresses dry up for end users.


... Every sun has a golden lining
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

On 06-15-19 09:46, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

When I ran Irex in combination with InterMail, I had a POTS modem connected to the VOIP port of the Motorrola surfboard cable modem provided by my ISP. It worked but milage varied. I usually got around
20K with and occasional 24K and sometimes dropping to 2400 Bps. Other than the few I provoked for testing I didn't get any incoming calls for
a period of five years and so when I converted my system from Frodo
style to BSO, I didn't bother to reinstall the POTS stuff. That was
about ten years ago. Since then I am IP only. I don't miss POTS.

I've forgotten the last time I used POTS, but it was well over 10 years ago, that's for sure. Possibly nearer 15 years ago. Still got several POTS modems kicking around.


... I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

Hello Dale,

On Saturday June 15 2019 02:58, you wrote to Tony Langdon:

You can always get a tunnel, which is independent of your ISP, or
switch ISPs, if netive IPv6 is important to you (and someone in
your area offers it).

My real question is why should I?

How about exploring new technology? What happened to that pioneer spirit that made Fidonet such a great a success?

At the moment I can do anything I want to do using what my ISP
provides, which is IPv4.

It will not last forever. How about avoiding surprises and get yourself familiar with the new technology so that when you find your IPv4 behind CGNAT, you don't have to panic?

How about fixing the roof when the sun is still shining?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

And still after 15 years of "reliable ipv6 connection" :

tommi@rpi:~$ telnet -6 eljaco.se 119
Trying 2001:470:27:302::2...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
tommi@rpi:~$

Incoming IPv6 is used only for certain services here, telnet is not one of them.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 2019 Jun 15 13:10:24, you wrote to Tommi Koivula:

tommi@rpi:~$ telnet -6 eljaco.se 119
Trying 2001:470:27:302::2...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
tommi@rpi:~$

Incoming IPv6 is used only for certain services here, telnet is not
one of them.

look at that command line again... port 119 is the NNTP port... is your news server not available on your IPv6?

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Guy's World: Same work .. more pay.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 06-15-19 11:59, Michiel Van Der Vlist <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ten Years Ago <=-

My real question is why should I? [get IPv6 on my own]

MVDV> How about exploring new technology? What happened to that
MVDV> pioneer spirit that made Fidonet such a great a success?

Two responses to that.
1. The technology that I learned and used is no longer very relevant. I
have been fully retired for more than a decade and am quite content to
leave that sort of thing to others.
2. For me, Fidonet has always been about the content it carries, i.e.
the echomail of topics I care about.

At the moment I can do anything I want to do using what my ISP
provides, which is IPv4.

MVDV> It will not last forever. How about avoiding surprises and
MVDV> get yourself familiar with the new technology so that when
MVDV> you find your IPv4 behind CGNAT, you don't have to panic?

I am not now familiar with IPv4, transport layers, and all that stuff.
Nor do I see a need to be. It works, and does what it is supposed to
do. I pay my ISP for service and am satisfied with what they provide.
I do not know what you mean by CGNAT?

MVDV> How about fixing the roof when the sun is still shining?

I don't fix my roof. I call my roofer, they come out and determine what
needs to be done and do it. I pay them and life is good.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 00:01:27, 16 Jun 2019
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Hello Dale,

On Saturday June 15 2019 23:54, you wrote to me:

I do not know what you mean by CGNAT?

Carrier Grade NAT.

A technology similar to the NAT that you use in your LAN to share a public IP address with many devices.

When ISP's run out of IPv4 addresses, they can revert to CGNAT to share one public address among many subscribers. Those subscribers no longer get a public address, but an address in a reserved range. 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 or 100.64.0.0/10.

If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier-grade_NAT

MVDV>> How about fixing the roof when the sun is still shining?

I don't fix my roof. I call my roofer, they come out and determine
what needs to be done and do it. I pay them and life is good.

I rest my case.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hello, Michiel van der Vlist.
On 16/06/19 11:25 you wrote:

When ISP's run out of IPv4 addresses, they can revert to CGNAT to
share one public address among many subscribers. Those subscribers
no longer get a public address, but an address in a reserved
range. 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 or 100.64.0.0/10.

The last class 100.64.0.0/10 is reserved for the internal connections (like p2p) of the provider's devices and it shoudn't be used for the customer's network (like for the end user ip address, neither for the nat of this one).
--
Ciao! :)
Fabio.
--- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
* Origin: ]\/[imac boss android point (2:335/364.3)

Hello Fabio,

On Sunday June 16 2019 15:31, you wrote to me:

reserved range. 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 or
100.64.0.0/10.

The last class 100.64.0.0/10 is reserved for the internal connections (like p2p) of the provider's devices and it shoudn't be used for the customer's network (like for the end user ip address, neither for the
nat of this one)

I deliberately wrote "reserved range" instead of "private range". The range 100.64.0.0/10 (RFC6598) should indeed not be used for local adresses in the customers network. (RFC1918) But they ARE used as addresses handed out to CPE'. On my 3G internet dongle I often get an RFC1918 address. Using RFC6598 addresses for the WAN address in the CPE avoids conflicts with RFC1918 addresses in the LAN part of the CPE.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

On 2019 Jun 16 11:25:48, you wrote to Dale Shipp:

When ISP's run out of IPv4 addresses, they can revert to CGNAT to
share one public address among many subscribers. Those subscribers no longer get a public address, but an address in a reserved range. 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 or 100.64.0.0/10.

If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

that is wrong... you can still run servers... you just have a limited audience... the type of address you have has absolutely no bearing on whether you can run servers or not...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Old Virus detected! Contact your hacker for an update.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello mark,

On Sunday June 16 2019 10:14, you wrote to me:

reserved range. 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 or
100.64.0.0/10.

If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

that is wrong... you can still run servers... you just have a limited audience... the type of address you have has absolutely no bearing on whether you can run servers or not...

Yeah, ok mr Knowitall, I was totally wrong and you are totally absolutely right. Yes, one can run a server. Even without any Internet connection. When your ISP puts you on CGNAT I hope you enjoy running a server that no one outside your LAN can reach. Good luck.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

On 2019 Jun 16 16:42:58, you wrote to me:

reserved range. 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 or
100.64.0.0/10.

If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

that is wrong... you can still run servers... you just have a limited
audience... the type of address you have has absolutely no bearing on
whether you can run servers or not...

Yeah, ok mr Knowitall, I was totally wrong and you are totally absolutely right.

no need to be snarky...

Yes, one can run a server. Even without any Internet connection.

exactly... some of my clients do exactly that... all access is from their internal LANs...

When your ISP puts you on CGNAT I hope you enjoy running a server that
no one outside your LAN can reach. Good luck.

no luck needed if that's one's need/desire...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Are these magic brownies? -Mary. They're Pepperidge Farm. -Dick
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 06-16-19 11:25, Michiel Van Der Vlist <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ten Years Ago <=-

I do not know what you mean by CGNAT?

MVDV> Carrier Grade NAT.

MVDV> A technology similar to the NAT that you use in your LAN to
MVDV> share a public IP address with many devices.

That makes sense to me.

MVDV> If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

I don't run a server.

MVDV>> How about fixing the roof when the sun is still shining?

I don't fix my roof. I call my roofer, they come out and determine
what needs to be done and do it. I pay them and life is good.

MVDV> I rest my case.

Exactly. I pay someone who is technically capable to do the job. I do
not have any need to worry about how they do it. They do it, and life
is good.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


MVDV> Cheers, Michiel

MVDV> -!- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
MVDV> ! Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)



... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 00:32:08, 17 Jun 2019
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Hi Björn.

15 Jun 19 13:10:24, you wrote to me:

And still after 15 years of "reliable ipv6 connection" :

tommi@rpi:~$ telnet -6 eljaco.se 119
Trying 2001:470:27:302::2...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
tommi@rpi:~$

Incoming IPv6 is used only for certain services here, telnet is not

one

of them.

<Sigh>

If you don't know what the port 119 is used for, check your services file in your C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc directory.

'Tommi

---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi (2:221/360)

Incoming IPv6 is used only for certain services here, telnet is
not one of them.

If you don't know what the port 119 is used for,

You don't understand what "only for certain services" means?



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Dale,

On Monday June 17 2019 00:29, you wrote to me:

MVDV>> Carrier Grade NAT.

MVDV>> A technology similar to the NAT that you use in your LAN to
MVDV>> share a public IP address with many devices.

That makes sense to me.

I can imagine that for someone who only uses the InterNet as a client/server model and who looks at it from the client side, CGNAT is a good solution to the IPv4 address exhaustion problem.

MVDV>> If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

For the nitpickers: you can not make you servers accessable for clients outside your local network.

I don't run a server.

That is what I suspected all along but could never make you admit. Until now.

Well... if you do not run servers and do not play certain games and only use your internet connection to so some web surfing, do some e-mail and in general only use applications that require just a client connection, you have nothing to worry about.

It will keep working from behind a CGNAT.

MVDV>>> How about fixing the roof when the sun is still shining?

I don't fix my roof. I call my roofer, they come out and
determine what needs to be done and do it. I pay them and life
is good.

MVDV>> I rest my case.

Exactly. I pay someone who is technically capable to do the job. I do
not have any need to worry about how they do it. They do it, and life
is good.

OK.

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hi Björn.

17 Jun 19 21:45:10, you wrote to me:

Incoming IPv6 is used only for certain services here, telnet is
not one of them.

If you don't know what the port 119 is used for,

You don't understand what "only for certain services" means?

I do. Your news server "eljaco.se" has AAAA record but it does not work.

* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

'Tommi

---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi (2:221/360)

On 06-18-19 00:29, Michiel Van Der Vlist <=-
spoke to Dale Shipp about Ten Years Ago <=-

MVDV>> If your ISP does that to you, you no longer can run servers.

MVDV> For the nitpickers: you can not make you servers accessable
MVDV> for clients outside your local network.

That sounds like a good thing :-}}

I don't run a server.

MVDV> That is what I suspected all along but could never make you admit.
MVDV> Until now.

Not a big secret -- just not very relevant so it never came up.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 23:46:42, 17 Jun 2019
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

I don't run a server.

That is what I suspected all along but could never make you admit. Until now.

Oh dear ... that information has been in the nodelist for some time already ...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

Hello Dale,

On Monday June 17 2019 23:44, you wrote to me:

I don't run a server.

MVDV>> That is what I suspected all along but could never make you
MVDV>> admit. Until now.

Not a big secret -- just not very relevant so it never came up.

It DID come up. On several occasions you have claimed to run a BBS and that you had users. When I asked for the connect information, you always said it was available to the users. You would not give it to me.

A BBS is a server. Now you say you do not run a server.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

I do. Your news server "eljaco.se" has AAAA record

It does? That's strange. I thought that it was a DNS record. DN of course meaning Domain Name, not Server Name.





..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)