Test to Lee Green.

Terry Roati - 3:640/1321 tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

Hi! Terry,

On 15 Sep 19 10:30, you wrote to Lee Green:

@MSGID: 3:640/1321 206E26BA
@TID: PX/Win v7.0 PX96-0649M
@TZUTC: 1000
Test to Lee Green.

Terry Roati - 3:640/1321 tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
SEEN-BY: 116/110 221/0 640/1321 1384 712/848 3634/12
@PATH: 640/1321 1384

Cheers,
Paul.

... Confucious say: Baseball wrong. Man with 4 balls cannot walk.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130515
* Origin: Quinn's Rock - Live from Paul's Xubuntu desktop! (3:640/1384)

Test to Lee Green.

Thanks.
No dupes in this echo.

Terry Roati - 3:640/1321 tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
SEEN-BY: 103/705 116/110 154/10 203/0 221/0 1 6 360 229/426 240/1120 5832 SEEN-BY: 280/464 5003 5555 310/31 320/119 219 396/45 423/120 640/1321 1384 SEEN-BY: 712/848 770/1 2452/250 3634/12 218/700 103/705 261/38 218/210 720

600

SEEN-BY: 214/22 218/600 401 520 102/401 218/802 640 215 410 1 10/1 218/0

10/0
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: TECHWARE BBS - Since 1995 - www.techware.dynip.com/ (1:102/401)

On 2019 Sep 15 10:30:04, you wrote to Lee Green:

@TID: PX/Win v7.0 PX96-0649M
@MSGID: 3:640/1321 206E26BA
@TZUTC: 1000
Test to Lee Green.

Terry Roati - 3:640/1321 tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
SEEN-BY: 116/110 221/0 640/1321 1384 712/848 3634/12 116/116 123/25 150

755

SEEN-BY: 135/300 153/7715 154/10 261/38 3634/15 24 27 50 119 123/50 115 14/6
SEEN-BY: 3634/30 300/4 3634/12 0 18/0 123/0 1/120
@PATH: 640/1321 1384 3634/12

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... I don't like making plans because then the word "premeditated" gets used. ---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Sep 15 00:57:00, you wrote to TERRY ROATI:

@TID: PX/Win v3.1 PX28-1182M2
@MSGID: 1:102/401 7510fd98
@TZUTC: -0700

these are your control lines...

Test to Lee Green.

Thanks.
No dupes in this echo.

you quoted (most of) terri's control lines... you missed his TID, MSGID, TZUTX and the path that his message took to your system...

Terry Roati - 3:640/1321 tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
SEEN-BY: 103/705 116/110 154/10 203/0 221/0 1 6 360 229/426 240/1120

5832 -> SEEN-BY: 280/464 5003 5555 310/31 320/119 219 396/45 423/120 640/1321 1384 -> SEEN-BY: 712/848 770/1 2452/250 3634/12 218/700 103/705 261/38 218/210 720 600 -> SEEN-BY: 214/22 218/600 401 520 102/401 218/802 640 215 410 1 10/1 218/0 10/0
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: TECHWARE BBS - Since 1995 - www.techware.dynip.com/ (1:102/401)

your seenby and path lines, as they appear on this point system, are below

SEEN-BY: 10/0 1 102/401 103/705 129/215 154/10 30 40 700 203/0 214/22 218/0
1
SEEN-BY: 218/210 215 401 410 520 600 600 640 700 720 802 221/0 6 227/201 400
SEEN-BY: 229/310 426 240/5832 261/38 280/464 5003 5555 310/31 396/45 423/120
SEEN-BY: 712/848 770/1 2452/250 3634/12 116/116 123/25 150 755 135/300 SEEN-BY: 153/7715 3634/15 24 27 50 119 640/1384 123/50 115 14/6 3634/30 300/4
SEEN-BY: 3634/0 18/0 123/0 1/120
@PATH: 102/401 218/700 103/705 280/464 154/10 3634/12

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... Works well when under constant supervision and cornered like a rat in a trap
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Sep 15 00:57:00, you wrote to TERRY ROATI:

@TID: PX/Win v3.1 PX28-1182M2
@MSGID: 1:102/401 7510fd98
@TZUTC: -0700

these are your control lines...

Ok, not exactly sure what they mean except for the obvious words I
recognize.

Test to Lee Green.

Thanks.
No dupes in this echo.

you quoted (most of) terri's control lines... you missed his TID, MSGID,

TZUTX

and the path that his message took to your system...

Maybe I need to turn on another option like I had to for seen-by and
path info.

I just wanted to see if he was sending out duplicates in other echos or
just the Wildcat echo.

Terry seems to think based on the Path of a message in Wildcat echo that
it is my uplink that is not catching the duplicates.

1st dupe post
PATH: 640/1321 1384 712/848 633/280 229/426 280/464 103/705 218/700 ------------------------------------------------------------
2nd dupe post
PATH: 640/1321 1384 3634/12 261/38 218/700

I believe if you follow the path of both messages you will see the
last entry in both posts is 1:218/700 who is Kurt Weiske so it seems to
me his system is the one not spotting one of the messages as a dupe for
what ever reason.

Terry Roati - 3:640/1321 tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
SEEN-BY: 103/705 116/110 154/10 203/0 221/0 1 6 360 229/426

240/1120

5832 -> SEEN-BY: 280/464 5003 5555 310/31 320/119 219 396/45 423/120 640/1321 1384 -> SEEN-BY: 712/848 770/1 2452/250 3634/12 218/700

103/705

261/38 218/210 720 600 -> SEEN-BY: 214/22 218/600 401 520 102/401

218/802

640 215 410 1 10/1 218/0 10/0
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: TECHWARE BBS - Since 1995 - www.techware.dynip.com/ (1:102/401)

your seenby and path lines, as they appear on this point system, are below

SEEN-BY: 10/0 1 102/401 103/705 129/215 154/10 30 40 700 203/0 214/22 218/0
1
SEEN-BY: 218/210 215 401 410 520 600 600 640 700 720 802 221/0 6

227/201

400
SEEN-BY: 229/310 426 240/5832 261/38 280/464 5003 5555 310/31 396/45 423/120
SEEN-BY: 712/848 770/1 2452/250 3634/12 116/116 123/25 150 755 135/300 SEEN-BY: 153/7715 3634/15 24 27 50 119 640/1384 123/50 115 14/6

3634/30

300/4
SEEN-BY: 3634/0 18/0 123/0 1/120
@PATH: 102/401 218/700 103/705 280/464 154/10 3634/12

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would

set

them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them. ... Works well when under constant supervision and cornered like a rat in a trap
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
SEEN-BY: 1/120 14/6 18/0 103/705 116/116 123/0 25 50 115 150 755 135/300 SEEN-BY: 153/7715 154/10 203/0 221/0 1 6 360 229/426 240/1120 5832 261/38 SEEN-BY: 280/464 5003 5555 300/4 310/31 320/119 219 396/45 423/120 640/1321 SEEN-BY: 640/1384 712/848 770/1 2452/250 3634/0 12 15 24 27 30 50 119

218/700

SEEN-BY: 103/705 218/210 720 600 214/22 218/600 401 520 102/401 218/802 640 SEEN-BY: 218/215 410 1 10/1 218/0 10/0

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: TECHWARE BBS - Since 1995 - www.techware.dynip.com/ (1:102/401)

On 2019 Sep 15 10:54:56, you wrote to me:

Maybe I need to turn on another option like I had to for seen-by and
path info.

i don't know... if you did, it somehow missed the path when you quoted terri's...

I just wanted to see if he was sending out duplicates in other echos
or just the Wildcat echo.

as noted previously, the dupes are generated by multiple systems passing the mail to multiple links... they are not being generated by the originating system...

Terry seems to think based on the Path of a message in Wildcat echo
that it is my uplink that is not catching the duplicates.

AFAIK, kurt is running synchronet... i, too, am running synchronet... there is a specific setting in sbbsecho's echocfg tool to allow or not the passing on of all messages, be they dupes or not... i suspect that kurt has configured his setting as i have mine... that being to pass on all messages even if they are dupes... this is to ensure that all links get all messages...

how is this setting critical? my system may detect a message as a dupe and not send it on... systems linked to mine may not have gotten the/a first copy of the message so they haven't seen it... since my system might be configured to drop dupes, then said link will never get a copy of the message and they'll be missing mail... setting this option to send all messages, even dupes, ensures that links do get the messages...

the question is why your system didn't detect the message as a dupe... in this day in time, you cannot rely on links to prevent the sending of dupes to your system... the whole FTN message transmission mechanism has flipped 180 degrees from what it was back in the POTS days... dupes were a BadThing<tm> then but in today's world, they are desired and considered to be a GoodThing<tm>...

the new mantra: moderators and trolls be damned... all traffic must pass!

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... An apple a day keeps the doctor away. So does not paying your bills!
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello LEE.

15 Sep 19 10:54, you wrote to mark lewis:

@TID: PX/Win v3.1 PX28-1182M2
@MSGID: 1:102/401 7510fd98
@TZUTC: -0700

Ok, not exactly sure what they mean except for the obvious words I recognize.

TID: Tosser ID -- this is usually the name and version of your mail tosser.

MSGID: Message ID -- this is a unique ID for each message for duplicate detection.

TZUTC: Timezone (from) Universal Time Coordinated: your timezone from GMT/Zulu.

Later,
Sean

--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
* Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:2304 (1:18/200)

Hello LEE.

15 Sep 19 10:54, you wrote to mark lewis:

@TID: PX/Win v3.1 PX28-1182M2
@MSGID: 1:102/401 7510fd98
@TZUTC: -0700

Ok, not exactly sure what they mean except for the obvious words I recognize.

TID: Tosser ID -- this is usually the name and version of your mail tosser.

MSGID: Message ID -- this is a unique ID for each message for duplicate detection.

TZUTC: Timezone (from) Universal Time Coordinated: your timezone from

GMT/Zulu.

Thanks for the info.

Later,
Sean

--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
* Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net:2304 (1:18/200)
SEEN-BY: 1/123 15/2 18/200 103/705 154/10 203/0 221/0 226/16 227/114

229/200

SEEN-BY: 229/354 426 452 1014 240/5832 249/206 307 317 400 280/464 5003

5555

SEEN-BY: 310/31 317/3 322/757 342/200 396/45 423/120 712/848 770/1 2320/304 SEEN-BY: 2452/250 218/700 103/705 261/38 218/210 720 600 214/22 218/600 401 SEEN-BY: 218/520 102/401 218/802 640 215 410 1 10/1 218/0 10/0

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: TECHWARE BBS - Since 1995 - www.techware.dynip.com/ (1:102/401)

Hi mark,

On 2019-09-16 07:53:04, you wrote to LEE GREEN:

Terry seems to think based on the Path of a message in Wildcat echo
that it is my uplink that is not catching the duplicates.

AFAIK, kurt is running synchronet... i, too, am running synchronet...

there

is a specific setting in sbbsecho's echocfg tool to allow or not the passing on of all messages, be they dupes or not... i suspect that kurt

has

configured his setting as i have mine... that being to pass on all

messages

even if they are dupes... this is to ensure that all links get all messages...

"Pass on all messages" regardless of SEEN-BY's?

how is this setting critical? my system may detect a message as a dupe
and not send it on... systems linked to mine may not have gotten the/a first copy of the message so they haven't seen it...

How could that happen? Your system would have sent them the original already.

since my system might be configured to drop dupes, then said link will never get a copy of the message and they'll be missing mail... setting this option to send all messages, even dupes, ensures that links do
get the messages...

I don't think this setting is a "good thing". You've already send the original to your links. If that wasn't received, the dupe has no chance either. If every node in fidonet would do this, dupes will circle in loops for ever...


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On 2019 Sep 17 16:55:38, you wrote to me:

Terry seems to think based on the Path of a message in Wildcat echo
that it is my uplink that is not catching the duplicates.

AFAIK, kurt is running synchronet... i, too, am running synchronet...
there is a specific setting in sbbsecho's echocfg tool to allow or
not the passing on of all messages, be they dupes or not... i suspect
that kurt has configured his setting as i have mine... that being to
pass on all messages even if they are dupes... this is to ensure that
all links get all messages...

"Pass on all messages" regardless of SEEN-BY's?

there's no such setting in sbbs's echocfg tool... there is, however,

Echomail Settings -> Relay Filtered Messages yes/no

Relay Filtered Messages controls whether or not incoming messages that
have been filtered (e.g. due to maximum message age restrictions)
are to be forwarded to downlinks.


the above is all i have to go on without digging into the source code... i note that the example is just an example of one of the ways a message could be filtered... at this time, i do not know what other criteria are used to filter a message or if some things, like already being in the seenbys, counts... i suspect that rob did this properly as i do not see multiple copies of the same message traversing the multiple loops that come through my system... i do see different ones that come via other loops, though...

how is this setting critical? my system may detect a message as a
dupe and not send it on... systems linked to mine may not have gotten
the/a first copy of the message so they haven't seen it...

How could that happen? Your system would have sent them the original already.

do you not consider that there may be errors in transmission or at either end that could cause the PKT to be marked as bad or otherwise lost for some reason???

since my system might be configured to drop dupes, then said link
will never get a copy of the message and they'll be missing mail...
setting this option to send all messages, even dupes, ensures that
links do get the messages...

I don't think this setting is a "good thing". You've already send the original to your links.

see above...

If that wasn't received, the dupe has no chance either.

you're not thinking... if the problem has been fixed, then the dupe will make it through...

If every node in fidonet would do this, dupes will circle in loops for ever...

sorry, but it seems that that's the fidoweb way ;)

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... A man is as young as the women he feels!
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Re: Test from TFB
By: mark lewis to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Sep 17 2019 03:05 pm

On 2019 Sep 17 16:55:38, you wrote to me:

Terry seems to think based on the Path of a message in Wildcat echo
that it is my uplink that is not catching the duplicates.

AFAIK, kurt is running synchronet... i, too, am running synchronet...
there is a specific setting in sbbsecho's echocfg tool to allow or
not the passing on of all messages, be they dupes or not... i suspect
that kurt has configured his setting as i have mine... that being to
pass on all messages even if they are dupes... this is to ensure that
all links get all messages...

"Pass on all messages" regardless of SEEN-BY's?

there's no such setting in sbbs's echocfg tool... there is, however,

Echomail Settings -> Relay Filtered Messages yes/no

Relay Filtered Messages controls whether or not incoming messages that
have been filtered (e.g. due to maximum message age restrictions)
are to be forwarded to downlinks.

the above is all i have to go on without digging into the source code... i note that the example is just an example of one of the ways a message could be filtered... at this time, i do not know what other criteria are used to filter a message or if some things, like already being in the seenbys, counts... i suspect that rob did this properly as i do not see multiple copies of the same message traversing the multiple loops that come through my system... i do see different ones that come via other loops, though...

Here is the relevant logic in sbbsecho.c:

/**********************/
/* Importing EchoMail */
/**********************/
result=fmsgtosmsg(fmsgbuf, &hdr, 0, cfg.area[i].sub);

if(result==IMPORT_FILTERED_DUPE) {
lprintf(LOG_NOTICE, "%s Duplicate message from %s (%s) to %s, subject: %s"
,areatag, hdr.from, fmsghdr_srcaddr_str(&hdr), hdr.to, hdr.subj);
cfg.area[i].dupes++;
new_echostat_msg(stat, ECHOSTAT_MSG_DUPLICATE
,fidomsg_to_echostat_msg(&hdr, &pkt_orig, fmsgbuf));
}
else if(result==IMPORT_SUCCESS
|| (result==IMPORT_FILTERED_AGE && cfg.relay_filtered_msgs)) {
/* Not a dupe */
strip_psb(fmsgbuf);
write_to_pkts(fmsgbuf, curarea, NULL, &hdr, msg_seen, msg_path,
/* rescan: */false);
}

So it never forwards dupes and it can conditionally forward messages that were filtered due to age.

Now.. passthru areas are a different story because there's no history to use to detect dupes, so those messages are always forwarded to downlinks.


digital man

This Is Spinal Tap quote #17:
David St. Hubbins: It's such a fine line between stupid, and uh... and clever. Norco, CA WX: 82.0øF, 43.0% humidity, 5 mph NNE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

On 2019 Sep 17 15:29:44, you wrote to me:

the above is all i have to go on without digging into the source
code... i note that the example is just an example of one of the ways a
message could be filtered... at this time, i do not know what other
criteria are used to filter a message or if some things, like already
being in the seenbys, counts... i suspect that rob did this properly as
i do not see multiple copies of the same message traversing the
multiple loops that come through my system... i do see different ones
that come via other loops, though...

Here is the relevant logic in sbbsecho.c:

[trim]

So it never forwards dupes and it can conditionally forward messages that were filtered due to age.

thanks for that, rob... i was under the impression that there were other reasons a message would/could be "filtered"...

Now.. passthru areas are a different story because there's no history
to use to detect dupes, so those messages are always forwarded to downlinks.

makes sense :)

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... The world owes you NOTHING! It was here first.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Re: Test from TFB
By: mark lewis to Rob Swindell on Wed Sep 18 2019 10:07 am

On 2019 Sep 17 15:29:44, you wrote to me:

the above is all i have to go on without digging into the source
code... i note that the example is just an example of one of the ways a
message could be filtered... at this time, i do not know what other
criteria are used to filter a message or if some things, like already
being in the seenbys, counts... i suspect that rob did this properly as
i do not see multiple copies of the same message traversing the
multiple loops that come through my system... i do see different ones
that come via other loops, though...

Here is the relevant logic in sbbsecho.c:

[trim]

So it never forwards dupes and it can conditionally forward messages that were filtered due to age.

thanks for that, rob... i was under the impression that there were other reasons a message would/could be "filtered"...

There are (e.g. twitlist.cfg), but messages filtered for that/those reasons are never forwarded to down-links. That could be pretty easily changed however, if desired.

digital man

This Is Spinal Tap quote #1:
Nigel Tufnel: These go to eleven.
Norco, CA WX: 72.3øF, 70.0% humidity, 0 mph WSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

There are (e.g. twitlist.cfg), but messages filtered for that/those reasons ar
never forwarded to down-links. That could be pretty easily changed however, if
desired.

The problem with filtering in twitlist.cfg is exactly that. Not an issue for a leaf node but those that distribute mail it could be. I don't think any distributors want to disrupt the flow of mail.

A per user filter would be better so that folks can silently filter poopy heads without disruputing mail flow.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Re: Test from TFB
By: Alan Ianson to Rob Swindell on Wed Sep 18 2019 11:40 am

There are (e.g. twitlist.cfg), but messages filtered for that/those

reasons

ar >never forwarded to down-links. That could be pretty easily changed however, if

desired.

The problem with filtering in twitlist.cfg is exactly that. Not an issue

for

a leaf node but those that distribute mail it could be. I don't think any distributors want to disrupt the flow of mail.

I think most mail hubs don't utilize the system-wide twit filter for this reason.

A per user filter would be better so that folks can silently filter poopy heads without disruputing mail flow.

I agree.


digital man

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #41:
IP = Internet Protocol
Norco, CA WX: 84.4øF, 42.0% humidity, 4 mph WSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Hi Rob,

On 2019-09-18 09:43:49, you wrote to mark lewis:

There are (e.g. twitlist.cfg), but messages filtered for that/those reasons are never forwarded to down-links.

Isn't that censoring? Twitlists can be used to not import messages into a systems messagebase, if a operator so desires (it's his system). But filtering forwarded traffic is a no no!

That could be pretty easily changed however, if desired.

I think it's desired.

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Re: Re: Test from TFB
By: Wilfred van Velzen to Rob Swindell on Wed Sep 18 2019 07:43 pm

Hi Rob,

On 2019-09-18 09:43:49, you wrote to mark lewis:

There are (e.g. twitlist.cfg), but messages filtered for that/those reasons are never forwarded to down-links.

Isn't that censoring?

Potentially, yeah. Which is why I think most hubs don't make use of a twi-list.

Twitlists can be used to not import messages into a
systems messagebase, if a operator so desires (it's his system). But filtering forwarded traffic is a no no!

Depends on the network I suppose.

That could be pretty easily changed however, if desired.

I think it's desired.

Okay, but I think I'll wait until someone actually uses the software requests a change. :-)

digital man

This Is Spinal Tap quote #12:
Nigel Tufnel: Well, I don't know - wh-wh-... what're the hours?
Norco, CA WX: 75.9øF, 58.0% humidity, 11 mph NE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Hi Wilfred,

On Sep 18, 2019 07:41pm, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Rob Swindell:

Isn't that censoring? Twitlists can be used to not import messages
into a systems messagebase, if a operator so desires (it's his
system). But filtering forwarded traffic is a no no!

Isn't the same, if a twit filter is only used on a system, then that system is preventing twit mail to be read by it's user's.

So it comes down to common sense and a set of rules which if majority agreed upon should be followed. Not everyone agrees with every law but they have to
be followed or there are consequences.

I agree filtering forward traffic is a no no unless agreed upon an approved rule.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Terry Roati - 3:640/1321 tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

On 2019 Sep 18 11:40:44, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

There are (e.g. twitlist.cfg), but messages filtered for that/those
reasons ar never forwarded to down-links. That could be pretty easily
changed however, if desired.

The problem with filtering in twitlist.cfg is exactly that. Not an issue for a leaf node but those that distribute mail it could be. I don't think any distributors want to disrupt the flow of mail.

there was a service or two that did offer filtered feeds where traffic from certain individuals and systems was certainly removed... it isn't the first time such a feed has been offered in fidonet, either...

FWIW: the tool used for that feed was developed by someone in Z3 back in the '90s where there was a huge problem of traffic from othernets (a pr0n network in particular) was being injected into fidonet... the injections were taking the headers from valid fidonet traffic and putting them on the message bodies of the injected traffic... these pkts were then being dropped off on systems that processed pkts from their inbound directories without validating the sending system information in the pkt headers... this lead to more systems implementing pkt level passwords and also the implementation of secure and insecure inbounds...

A per user filter would be better so that folks can silently filter
poopy heads without disruputing mail flow.

those filters are a GoodThing<tm> too :)

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... Old soldiers never die...young ones do.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Sep 18 19:43:16, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

There are (e.g. twitlist.cfg), but messages filtered for that/those
reasons are never forwarded to down-links.

Isn't that censoring? Twitlists can be used to not import messages
into a systems messagebase, if a operator so desires (it's his
system). But filtering forwarded traffic is a no no!

that depends on the situation... i'm sure you would not like seeing explicit pr0n messages being injected into fidonet with your name on them like was done back in the '90s...

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... Eval Day 1,094,583,217 * I Support Shareware!
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hi mark,

On 2019-09-17 15:05:08, you wrote to me:

"Pass on all messages" regardless of SEEN-BY's?

there's no such setting in sbbs's echocfg tool... there is, however,

Echomail Settings -> Relay Filtered Messages yes/no

Relay Filtered Messages controls whether or not incoming messages that
have been filtered (e.g. due to maximum message age restrictions)
are to be forwarded to downlinks.

the above is all i have to go on without digging into the source
code... i note that the example is just an example of one of the ways
a message could be filtered... at this time, i do not know what other criteria are used to filter a message or if some things, like already being in the seenbys, counts... i suspect that rob did this properly

Indeed he did! :)

as i do not see multiple copies of the same message traversing the multiple loops that come through my system... i do see different ones
that come via other loops, though...

That's just how the fidoweb is supposed to work...

how is this setting critical? my system may detect a message as a
dupe and not send it on... systems linked to mine may not have gotten
the/a first copy of the message so they haven't seen it...

How could that happen? Your system would have sent them the original
already.

do you not consider that there may be errors in transmission or at either end that could cause the PKT to be marked as bad or otherwise lost for

some

reason???

Shit happens, but these are (very) unlikely events, you don't have to forward all dupes for this. If that was needed there would be something seriously wrong with the link or FTN in general...

If every node in fidonet would do this, dupes will circle in loops
for ever...

sorry, but it seems that that's the fidoweb way ;)

Nope. (Detected) Dupes are not forwarded on most, if not all, systems.

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: Amiga Offline BBS Lisse (2:280/464)

Hi Rob,

On 2019-09-18 17:51:43, you wrote to me:

[Filtering forwarded mail]

That could be pretty easily changed however, if desired.

I think it's desired.

Okay, but I think I'll wait until someone actually uses the software requests a change. :-)

I have multiple links with synchronet systems. That should count for something! ;)

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Terry,

On 2019-09-19 11:28:16, you wrote to me:

Isn't that censoring? Twitlists can be used to not import messages
into a systems messagebase, if a operator so desires (it's his
system). But filtering forwarded traffic is a no no!

Isn't the same, if a twit filter is only used on a system, then that

system

is preventing twit mail to be read by it's user's.

That's something different, a user can easily go to another bbs if he doesn't like the filtering. It's something different if you filter intransit mail in a network that influences all downlinks on that path.

So it comes down to common sense and a set of rules which if majority agreed upon should be followed. Not everyone agrees with every law but

they

have to be followed or there are consequences.

The rule in fidonet is not to filter.

I agree filtering forward traffic is a no no unless agreed upon an approved rule.

You will have to trust every operator in the network to not sneak his personal preferences into his set of rules...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi mark,

On 2019-09-19 12:04:44, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

FWIW: the tool used for that feed was developed by someone in Z3 back
in the '90s where there was a huge problem of traffic from othernets
(a pr0n network in particular) was being injected into fidonet... the injections were taking the headers from valid fidonet traffic and
putting them on the message bodies of the injected traffic... these
pkts were then being dropped off on systems that processed pkts from
their inbound directories without validating the sending system information in the pkt headers...

That's essentially spam filtering. Which preferably should happen at the point of entry... Like this:

this lead to more systems implementing pkt level passwords and also
the implementation of secure and insecure inbounds...

And shouldn't be necessary on intransit mail...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi mark,

On 2019-09-19 12:03:10, you wrote to me:

There are (e.g. twitlist.cfg), but messages filtered for that/those
reasons are never forwarded to down-links.

Isn't that censoring? Twitlists can be used to not import messages
into a systems messagebase, if a operator so desires (it's his
system). But filtering forwarded traffic is a no no!

that depends on the situation... i'm sure you would not like seeing explicit pr0n messages being injected into fidonet with your name on them like was done back in the '90s...

You already listed the techniques developed to prevent that, which I think most currently used FTN software supports.

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

 RS> Okay, but I think I'll wait until someone actually uses the software  RS> requests a change. :-)

I have multiple links with synchronet systems. That should count for

something! ;)

So you may consider yourself a synchronet poweruser! ;)

'Tommi

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0
* Origin: smapinntpd/linux @ nntps://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Hi Wilfred,

On Sep 25, 2019 01:35pm, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Terry Roati:

The rule in fidonet is not to filter.

It's the right thing to do and common sense.

You will have to trust every operator in the network to not sneak his personal preferences into his set of rules...

Aren't we already doing that? Besides with Fidoweb, it would require a few systems to have any impact.

So we can just enjoy the hobby while we can.

Terry Roati - 3:640/1321 tfb-bbs.org

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

I've got mail flowing back, just want to see if I'm sending it out too!



--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.10-alpha (linux; x64; 10.15.2)
* Origin: The Amiga Frontier BBS *frontierbbs.net:8888* OH (1:226/16)

I've got mail flowing back, just want to see if I'm sending it out too!

I'm reading you here.. so I think your good.. :)

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hi Charles.

24 Sep 19 03:16, you wrote to All:

@MSGID: 50906.fidotest@1:226/16 3d757cb9
@TZUTC: -0400
@TID: ENiGMA1/2 0.0.10.a (linux; x64; 10.15.2)
@CHRS: UTF-8 4
@REPLY: 3:640/1384 5d7da777
I've got mail flowing back, just want to see if I'm sending it out too!

--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.10-alpha (linux; x64; 10.15.2)
* Origin: The Amiga Frontier BBS *frontierbbs.net:8888* OH (1:226/16) SEEN-BY: 1/123 15/2 18/200 103/705 154/10 203/0 221/0 6 226/16 227/114 SEEN-BY: 229/200 354 426 452 1014 240/5832 249/206 307 317 400 280/464 SEEN-BY: 280/2000 5003 5555 310/31 317/3 322/757 342/200 396/45 423/120 SEEN-BY: 712/848 770/1 2452/250
@PATH: 226/16 229/426 280/464 5555

It took in 4 days to arrive..

'Tommi

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: nntps://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6)

Hi Charles!

24 Sep 2019 03:16, from Charles Stephenson -> All:

@MSGID: 50906.fidotest@1:226/16 3d757cb9
@TZUTC: -0400
@TID: ENiGMA1/2 0.0.10.a (linux; x64; 10.15.2)
@CHRS: UTF-8 4
@REPLY: 3:640/1384 5d7da777
I've got mail flowing back, just want to see if I'm sending it out
too!

SEEN-BY: 1/123 15/2 18/200 103/705 154/10 203/0 221/0 226/16 227/114 SEEN-BY: 229/200 354 426 452 1014 240/5832 249/206 307 317 400 280/464 SEEN-BY: 280/5003 5555 310/31 317/3 322/757 342/200 396/45 423/120
712/848
SEEN-BY: 770/1 2452/250
@PATH: 226/16 229/426 280/464

CU, Ricsi

... This calls for a subtle blend of psychology and extreme violence.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: To avoid seeing a fool, break your mirror! (2:310/31)

I got you here. Welcome back!

I've got mail flowing back, just want to see if I'm sending it out too!

---
Lawrence Stockman
SouthernCharmBBS.com

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Southern Charm BBS - SouthernCharmBBS.com (1:124/5019)

Hello Charles!

24 Sep 19 03:16, you wrote to All:

@MSGID: 50906.fidotest@1:226/16 3d757cb9
@TZUTC: -0400
@TID: ENiGMA1/2 0.0.10.a (linux; x64; 10.15.2)
@CHRS: UTF-8 4
@REPLY: 3:640/1384 5d7da777
I've got mail flowing back, just want to see if I'm sending it out
too!

--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.10-alpha (linux; x64; 10.15.2)
* Origin: The Amiga Frontier BBS *frontierbbs.net:8888* OH (1:226/16) SEEN-BY: 1/123 15/2 18/200 103/705 154/10 203/0 221/0 6 360 226/16
227/114
SEEN-BY: 229/200 354 426 452 1014 240/1120 5832 249/206 307 317 400 280/464
SEEN-BY: 280/2000 5003 5555 310/31 317/3 322/757 333/808 335/206 364 342/200
SEEN-BY: 396/45 423/120 712/848 770/1 2452/250
@PATH: 226/16 229/426 280/464 5555 221/6 335/364

Strong as a Bull testicles! :P

Ciao!
Fabio

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ]\/[imac Rebirth Boss Point (2:335/364.1)

I've got mail flowing back, just want to see if I'm sending it out
too!

Yep, got it here!


--- InterEcho 1.20
* Origin: Omicron Theta/WC4 * Memphis TN * wc4.winserver.org (1:261/20)

Hello Robert!

30 Sep 19 19:38, you wrote to Charles Stephenson:

@MSGID: 1:261/20 3d1673f7
@TID: InterEcho 1.20 00000000

I've got mail flowing back, just want to see if I'm sending it out
too!

Yep, got it here!

--- InterEcho 1.20
* Origin: Omicron Theta/WC4 * Memphis TN * wc4.winserver.org
(1:261/20)
SEEN-BY: 1/19 15/0 16/0 19/36 34/999 90/1 104/57 106/201 116/17 18
120/302 331
SEEN-BY: 120/544 123/130 131 140 142/799 153/757 7715 203/0 218/50 700 221/0 1
SEEN-BY: 221/6 360 222/2 230/150 152 240/1120 5832 250/1 261/20 38 100 1466
SEEN-BY: 266/512 267/155 275/100 280/464 5003 5555 282/1031 1056 1060 291/1
SEEN-BY: 291/111 320/119 219 322/0 333/808 335/206 364 340/400 342/13 396/45
SEEN-BY: 640/1321 1384 712/848 801/161 189 2320/105 3634/12 5020/715
1042
@PATH: 261/20 116/18 261/38 320/219 221/1 6 335/364

:)

Ciao!
Fabio

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: ]\/[imac Rebirth Boss Point (2:335/364.1)

On Oct 6th 4:34 am Robert Wolfe said...

I've got mail flowing back, just want to see if I'm sending it out ->

too!

Yep, got it here!

Thanks! ;)



--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.10-alpha (linux; x64; 10.15.2)
* Origin: The Amiga Frontier BBS |frontierbbs.net:8888| OH (1:226/16)

On Oct 6th 4:31 am Fabio Bizzi said...

Hello Charles!

24 Sep 19 03:16, you wrote to All:

@MSGID: 50906.fidotest@1:226/16 3d757cb9

@TZUTC: -0400
@TID: ENiGMA1/2 0.0.10.a (linux; x64; 10.15.2)
@CHRS: UTF-8 4
@REPLY: 3:640/1384 5d7da777
I've got mail flowing back, just want to see if I'm sending it out
too!

Got it working here, now to figure out why Areafix wont work right in Synchronet... Ugh....



--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.10-alpha (linux; x64; 10.15.2)
* Origin: The Amiga Frontier BBS |frontierbbs.net:8888| OH (1:226/16)

On 2019 Oct 26 02:16:50, you wrote to Fabio Bizzi:

Got it working here, now to figure out why Areafix wont work right in Synchronet... Ugh....

what problems are you having with sbbsecho's areafix? it does use a slightly different syntax than traditional areafix...

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... Do agnostics engage in idol speculation?
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On Oct 26th 12:30 pm mark lewis said...

On 2019 Oct 26 02:16:50, you wrote to Fabio Bizzi:

Got it working here, now to figure out why Areafix wont work
right in

Synchronet... Ugh....

what problems are you having with sbbsecho's areafix? it does use a slightly different syntax than traditional areafix...

It just 'stopped' working. It's been working flawlessly for over a year now, now I can't seem to send my Hub a areafix. At this point, I don't know if it's error on my part or my hub. I've been trying to contact him via netmail and email. I can send/recieve netmail fine. I'm now looking for another hub to feed my other BBS..



--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.10-alpha (linux; x64; 10.15.2)
* Origin: The Amiga Frontier BBS |frontierbbs.net:8888| OH (1:226/16)

Charles Stephenson wrote to mark lewis <=-

Got it working here, now to figure out why Areafix wont work
right in Synchronet... Ugh....

what problems are you having with sbbsecho's areafix? it does use a slightly different syntax than traditional areafix...

It just 'stopped' working. It's been working flawlessly for over
a year now, now I can't seem to send my Hub a areafix. At this
point, I don't know if it's error on my part or my hub. I've been
trying to contact him via netmail and email. I can send/recieve
netmail fine. I'm now looking for another hub to feed my other
BBS..

This doesn't really make any sense...

If you can "send/receive netmail fine", then the problem is
obviously at the hub's end. Sending your hub an areafix is
nothing more than sending a netmail. If the hub doesn't respond
properly to that netmail, it's a problem at the hub. If the hub
is running Synchronet, then yes, it could be a problem with the
hub's SBBSecho.

All of this is assuming you're sending a properly formatted
netmail to the hub's "areafix". Should be to "Areafix@1:xxx/xxx"
with your areafix password in the Subject line, and then the
desired areafix commands (like +FIDONEWS) in the body of the
netmail.

I'd recommend checking all of the above requirements for a
properly formatted Areafix netmail, and if it is indeed correct,
then send a regular netmail to the Hub Sysop asking why things are
not working. Good luck!



... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hi Charles,

On 2019-10-28 09:00:13, you wrote to mark lewis:

I'm now looking for another hub to feed my other BBS..

Get an AmigaNet link! Your AmigaNet link could also give you a fidonet feed! ;)

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On Oct 30th 5:43 pm Dan Clough said...

If you can "send/receive netmail fine", then the problem is obviously at the hub's end. Sending your hub an areafix is nothing more than sending a netmail. If the hub doesn't respond properly to that netmail, it's a problem at the hub. If the hub is running Synchronet, then yes, it could be a problem with the hub's SBBSecho.

All of this is assuming you're sending a properly formatted netmail to the hub's "areafix". Should be to "Areafix@1:xxx/xxx" with your areafix password in the Subject line, and then the desired areafix commands (like +FIDONEWS) in the body of the netmail.

Right, it DOESN'T make sense. I don't understand it. It worked when I firrst set up my echomail areas like months (maybe over a year ago). But I haven't sent a netmail in awhile. I haven't had a need. I WAS talking to a fellow sysop via netmail, and they just stopped. I thought maybe he was just done talking!


On Oct 30th 5:43 pm Dan Clough said...

I'd recommend checking all of the above requirements for a properly formatted Areafix netmail, and if it is indeed correct, then send a regular netmail to the Hub Sysop asking why things are not working. Good luck!

I've double and triple checked my settings, and everything looks good on my end. I seem to be having the problem in two different networks, on two different BBS programs (Synchronet and Enigma). (the 2 networks are FidoNet and FSXNet). although I have been having issues with netmail in Enigma before. it is still a Alpha program, but Synchronet. I've followed the instructions to a tee, and I'm STILL stumped.



--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.10-alpha (linux; x64; 10.15.2)
* Origin: The Amiga Frontier BBS |frontierbbs.net:8888| OH (1:226/16)

On Oct 30th 5:43 pm Wilfred van Velzen said...

I'm now looking for another hub to feed my other BBS..

Get an AmigaNet link! Your AmigaNet link could also give you a fidonet feed! ;)

Kind of what got me to finding out about the netmail issues! I was planning on getting connected to AmigaNet. My Fido Hub, Nick Andre has been MIA, and ignoring my emails. He's also my FidoNet feed. so I've been trying to setup another Fido Feed. Which is a whole 'nother issue....



--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.10-alpha (linux; x64; 10.15.2)
* Origin: The Amiga Frontier BBS |frontierbbs.net:8888| OH (1:226/16)

On 04 Nov 19 04:56:44, Charles Stephenson said the following to Wilfred Van Ve

Kind of what got me to finding out about the netmail issues! I was

planning

getting connected to AmigaNet. My Fido Hub, Nick Andre has been MIA, and ignoring my emails. He's also my FidoNet feed. so I've been trying to

setup

another Fido Feed. Which is a whole 'nother issue....

Uhh, I'm not MIA and not ignoring your emails. Perhaps if you Netmail me directly instead of complaining in Echomail, you might get somewhere.

I've been very politely asking you a few times to fix the tosser on your
system which is causing a circular path. Every time you said you have it
fixed or at least look into it, and thats the last I hear from you. I love how every single message I post in every area is looped back here by your tosser.

If you can't figure out Netmail or fix your broken tosser, you should not be joining an Othernet.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On Mon 4-Nov-2019 4:56a, Charles Stephenson@1:226/16.0 said to Wilfred Van

Kind of what got me to finding out about the netmail issues! I was
planning on
getting connected to AmigaNet. My Fido Hub, Nick Andre has been MIA, and ignoring my emails. He's also my FidoNet feed. so I've been trying to
setup
another Fido Feed. Which is a whole 'nother issue....

Nick is my Fidonet feed and I'm having no problems.
_____________________
Mick Manning
Central Ontario Remote CNet
--- CNet/5
* Origin: Central Ontario Remote CNet (1:249/307.1)

Re: Testing Testicles!
By: mark lewis to Charles Stephenson on Sat Oct 26 2019 11:37 am

what problems are you having with sbbsecho's areafix? it does use a

slightly

different syntax than traditional areafix...

Please elaborate: how is the syntax different?

digital man

This Is Spinal Tap quote #36:
Bobbi Flekman: Money talks, and bullshit walks.
Norco, CA WX: 63.3øF, 70.0% humidity, 6 mph NNE wind, 0.01 inches rain/24hrs --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

On 2019 Dec 08 12:41:42, you wrote to me:

what problems are you having with sbbsecho's areafix? it does use a
slightly different syntax than traditional areafix...

Please elaborate: how is the syntax different?

there's a few little niggles... i'll try to get some time and write up something for the sbbs support area...

)\/(ark

Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
... Apple (C) 1767, Sir Isaac Newton
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)