• Re: Move bookworm system from SSD to NVME

    From druck@3:770/3 to All on Wed Jul 31 21:33:57 2024
    T24gMzEvMDcvMjAyNCAwODo1MSwgSmVzcGVyIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBNeSAiUEMiIGZvciBtb3N0 IGRhaWx5IHVzZSwgaXMgYSByYXNwaSA1IHdpdGggdXBkYXRlZCBCb29rd29ybSwgcnVubmlu ZyANCj4gb24gYSBTU0QgY29ubmVjdGVkIHRvIFVTQiB2aWEgYSBTQVRBLWFkYXB0ZXIuIEkg YW0gdGVtcHRlZCB0byBjaGFuZ2UgdG8gDQo+IE5WTUUgdG8gZ2V0IHRoZSBsYXN0IGJpdCBv ZiBsYXRlbmN5IGF3YXkuDQo+IEJ1dCB3aGF0IGlzIHRoZSBlYXNpZXN0IHdheSB0byBjb3B5 IHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0gdG8gTlZNRT8gSSBzZWUgMyANCj4gcG9zc2liaWxpdGllczoNCj4gDQo+ ICDCoMKgIDE6IENvbm5lY3QgU1NEIGFuZCBOVk1FIHRvIGEgV2luZG93cyBQQyBhbmQgdXNl IE1hY3JpdW0gUmVmbGVjdCB0byANCj4gbW92ZSB0aGUgc3lzdGVtLg0KPiAgwqDCoCAyOiBD b25uZWN0IE5WTUUgdG8gcmFzcGksIGJvb3QgdGhlIHN5c3RlbSBmcm9tIFNTRCwgYW5kIHNv bWVob3cgY29weSANCj4gdGhlIHJ1bm5pbmcgc3lzdGVtIHRvIE5WTUUuDQo+ICDCoMKgIDM6 IENvbm5lY3QgTlZNRSB0byByYXNwaSwgYm9vdCBmcm9tIFNELWNhcmQgYW5kIGNvcHkgdGhl IHN5c3RlbSBmcm9tIA0KPiBTU0QgdG8gTlZNRS4gQnV0IGhvdz8NCg0KSXQncyBub3QgV2lu ZG93cywgeW91IGRvbid0IG5lZWQgM3JkIHBhcnR5IHRvb2xzIHRvIGRvIHNpbXBsZSB0aGlu Z3MgDQpzdWNoIGFzIGNvcHlpbmcgZmlsZXMgdG8gbmV3IGRpc2NzLCBldmVyeXRoaW5nIHlv dSBuZWVkIGlzIHByb3ZpZGVkLCANCmFsdGhvdWdoIGl0IG1heSBub3QgYmUgb2J2aW91cyB3 aGF0IHRvIGRvLg0KDQpPcHRpb24gMyBpcyB0aGUgYmVzdCwgYXMgYm90aCB0aGUgZHJpdmVz IGNhbiBiZSBjb25uZWN0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIFBpLCANCmJvb3RpbmcgZnJvbSBhbiBPUyBpbWFn ZSB0aGUgU0QgY2FyZCBhbGxvd3MgeW91IHRvIHBlcmZvcm0gdGhlIGNvcHkuDQoNCkFzIGxv bmcgYXMgeW91ciBuZXcgTlZNRSBpcyBsYXJnZXIgdGhhbiB0aGUgU1NELCB5b3UgY2FuIGp1 c3QgZG8gbG93IA0KbGV2ZWwgY29weSB3aXRoIHRoZSBkZCBjb21tYW5kLCB0aGVuIHJlc2l6 ZSB0aGUgcm9vdGZzIHBhcnRpdGlvbiBvbiB0aGUgDQpuZXcgZHJpdmUgdG8gdXNlIGFueSBl eHRyYSBzcGFjZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBncGFydGVkIHByb2dyYW0gKGlmIG5vdCANCmluc3RhbGxl ZCB1c2U6IGFwdCBpbnN0YWxsIGdwYXJ0ZWQpLg0KDQplLmcuIGRkIGlmPS9kZXYvc2RhIG9m PS9kZXYvbnZtZTBuMSBicz0xTSBzdGF0dXM9cHJvZ3Jlc3MNCg0KVXNlIGZkaXNrIC1sIHRv IGZpbmQgdGhlIG52bWUgZGlzayBuYW1lIGFzIGl0IG1heSBub3QgYmUgYXMgYWJvdmUuDQoN CkFsdGVybmF0aXZlbHkgdXNlIGdwYXJ0ZWQgdG8gY3JlYXRlIGEgNTEyTUIgRkFUIGJvb3Qg cGFydGl0aW9uLCBhbmQgdGhlIA0KcmVzdCBvZiB0aGUgZHJpdmUgYXMgYSBleHQ0IHJvb3Qg cGFydGl0aW9uLCB0aGVuIG1vdW50IHRoZW0sIGFuZCBjb3B5IA0KZmlsZXMgZnJvbSB0aGUg Ym9vdCBhbmQgcm9vdCBwYXJ0aXRpb25zIHdpdGggcnN5bmMuDQoNCmUuZy4NCg0KbWtkaXIg LXAgL21udC9TU0QvYm9vdA0KbW91bnQgL2Rldi9zZGExIC9tbnQvU1NEL2Jvb3QNCm1rZGly IC1wIC9tbnQvU1NEL3Jvb3QNCm1vdW50IC9kZXYvc2RhMiAvbW50L1NTRC9yb290DQoNCm1r ZGlyIC1wIC9tbnQvTlZNRS9ib290DQptb3VudCAvZGV2L252bWUwbjFwMSAvbW50L05WTUUv Ym9vdA0KbWtkaXIgLXAgL21udC9OVk1FL3Jvb3QNCm1vdW50IC9kZXYvbnZtZTBuMXAyIC9t bnQvTlZNRS9yb290DQoNCnJzeW5jIC12YXggL21udC9TU0QvYm9vdC8gL21udC9OVk1FL2Jv b3QNCnJzeW5jIC12YXhIQVggL21udC9TU0Qvcm9vdC8gL21udC9OVk1FL3Jvb3QNCg0KTWFr ZSBzdXJlIHlvdSBsb29rIHVwIHdoYXQgdGhvc2UgY29tbWFuZHMgZG8gYW5kIGhhdmUgdGhl IGNvcnJlY3QgDQpwYXJhbWV0ZXJzLCByYXRoZXIgdGhhbiBqdXN0IGN1dHRpbmcgYW5kIHBh c3RpbmcuDQoNCi0tLWRydWNrDQo=

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@3:770/3 to Jesper on Wed Jul 31 22:28:51 2024
    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 09:51:00 +0200, Jesper wrote:

    3: Connect NVME to raspi, boot from SD-card and copy the system from
    SSD to NVME. But how?

    Use rsync to do a file-level copy. Then the difference in volume sizes
    won’t matter.

    I haven’t done this on ARM, only on x86 machines (several times), but the procedure should be similar: after copying the installation across, you
    will need to fix up /etc/fstab for the changed filesystem IDs, and also reinstall the bootloader. Then you should be good to go.

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  • From Chris Townley@3:770/3 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Thu Aug 1 00:01:39 2024
    On 31/07/2024 23:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 09:51:00 +0200, Jesper wrote:

    3: Connect NVME to raspi, boot from SD-card and copy the system from
    SSD to NVME. But how?

    Use rsync to do a file-level copy. Then the difference in volume sizes won’t matter.

    I haven’t done this on ARM, only on x86 machines (several times), but the procedure should be similar: after copying the installation across, you
    will need to fix up /etc/fstab for the changed filesystem IDs, and also reinstall the bootloader. Then you should be good to go.

    If you can create an image - there are various tools to do that, then
    use the Raspberry Pi imager onto the NVME drive. That is what I did to
    move from a USB SSD to NVME, when I finally got an adapter

    --
    Chris

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to druck on Thu Aug 1 09:20:44 2024
    On 31/07/2024 21:33, druck wrote:
    As long as your new NVME is larger than the SSD, you can just do low
    level copy with the dd command, then resize the rootfs partition on the
    new drive to use any extra space with the gparted program (if not
    installed use: apt install gparted).

    That will at least get over the problem of having a different partuuid etc

    Is it possible to then create a DIFFERENT partition on the empty part of
    the new disk? And mount it as - say - /home?

    I need to do this myself, although the urgency is very low


    --
    “It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
    authorities are wrong.”

    ― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Jesper on Thu Aug 1 12:55:59 2024
    On 01/08/2024 12:31, Jesper wrote:
    Then the system to copy is on the 2 last lines. Correct?

    No.

    In order to preserve the partition information *you must dd the raw disk*

    dd id=/dev/sda od = /dev/nvme0n1 (or whatever)

    That will create a two partition disk with the UUIDS of the partitions
    the same as is mentioned in the boot data: If they don't match it wont boot.

    Viz:


    df -h | grep ^/dev/
    /dev/root 15G 1.5G 13G 11% /
    /dev/mmcblk0p1 255M 51M 205M 20% /boot

    These are the TWO partitions on a bootable PI device
    In /boot which is DOS style formatted will be instructions on how to
    boot the main system

    In the main bootable system there will be the fstab file which needs to
    tally with the partition ids.

    more /etc/fstab:

    proc /proc proc defaults 0 0 PARTUUID=b8c9fbb7-01 /boot vfat defaults 0 2 PARTUUID=b8c9fbb7-02 / ext4 defaults,noatime 0 1

    In the BOOT partition is this file
    more *.txt
    ::::::::::::::
    cmdline.txt
    ::::::::::::::
    console=serial0,115200 console=tty1 root=PARTUUID=b8c9fbb7-02
    rootfstype=ext4 fs
    ck.repair=yes rootwait modules-load=dwc2,g_ether

    Unless the bootloader finds that partition ID, it will *not load Linux*

    AIUI the boot sequence is this:

    Look for a DOS style VFAT partition on SD card, then USB, then NVME.

    Look for a file named 'cmdline.txt' parse the root partition ID and
    attempt to load a linux image from the boot partition and have the
    kernel image mount the aforementioned PARTUUID as root partition.

    If the PARTUUIDs don't match, the boot sequence hangs

    So it is important to have the same PARTUUID in /boot/cmdline.txt, and
    in /etc/fstab, and in the partition label on the boot partition

    The easy way to do this is not to clone the partitions, but the RAW DISK


    And following drucks first suggestion I should run these 2 commands:
    1: dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1M status=progress
    and
    2: dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1M status=progress

    replacing the name of the NVME to what I see when it is installed on the raspi.

    Best regards, and thank you for the help.

    That wont work, but you wont destroy anything by trying.


    --
    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
    too dark to read.

    Groucho Marx

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  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to Jesper on Thu Aug 1 17:10:00 2024
    On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 17:47:32 +0200
    Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 01.08.2024 13:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 01/08/2024 12:31, Jesper wrote:
    Then the system to copy is on the 2 last lines. Correct?

    No.

    In order to preserve the partition information *you must dd the raw
    disk*

    dd id=/dev/sda od = /dev/nvme0n1 (or whatever)

    That will create a two partition disk with the UUIDS of the partitions
    the same as is mentioned in the boot data: If they don't match it wont
    boot.

    Are you saying that this command (the one right above) will clone the
    whole disc, and the job is done? Probably not. When I run "dd --help" on
    the system i want to clone, there is no information about the switch
    "id" you use in the command.

    That command is wrong (or for an odd version of dd - but I think
    it's a finger slip) make that:

    dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m

    The add bs=1m will probably work wonders for performance.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
    For forms of government let fools contest
    Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Jesper on Thu Aug 1 17:52:02 2024
    On 01/08/2024 16:47, Jesper wrote:
    On 01.08.2024 13:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 01/08/2024 12:31, Jesper wrote:
    Then the system to copy is on the 2 last lines. Correct?

    No.

    In order to preserve the partition information *you must dd the raw disk*

    dd id=/dev/sda od = /dev/nvme0n1 (or whatever)

    That will create a two partition disk with the UUIDS of the partitions
    the same as is mentioned in the boot data: If they don't match it wont
    boot.

    Are you saying that this command (the one right above) will clone the
    whole disc, and the job is done? Probably not. When I run "dd --help" on
    the system i want to clone, there is no information about the switch
    "id" you use in the command.


    Soory. old brain.
    dd if=/dev/sda of = /dev/nvme0n1 (or whatever)


    Viz:


    df -h | grep ^/dev/
    Running that command on my system gives:
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ df -h | grep ^/dev/
    /dev/sda2           234G   19G   203G    9% / /dev/sda1           511M   76M   436M   15% /boot/firmware For /dev/sda1 it says "firmware", so it probably should/can not be
    copied, and is permanent on the raspi5-system

    It has to be copied because it contains the boot information



    /dev/root        15G  1.5G   13G  11% /
    /dev/mmcblk0p1  255M   51M  205M  20% /boot

    These are the TWO partitions on a bootable PI device
    In /boot which is DOS style formatted will be instructions on how to
    boot the main system

    In the main bootable system there will be the fstab file which needs
    to tally with the partition ids.

    more /etc/fstab:

    proc            /proc           proc    defaults          0       0
    PARTUUID=b8c9fbb7-01  /boot           vfat    defaults          0       2
    PARTUUID=b8c9fbb7-02  /               ext4    defaults,noatime  0       1

    In the BOOT partition is this file
      more *.txt
    ::::::::::::::
    cmdline.txt
    ::::::::::::::
    console=serial0,115200 console=tty1 root=PARTUUID=b8c9fbb7-02
    rootfstype=ext4 fs
    ck.repair=yes rootwait modules-load=dwc2,g_ether

    Unless the bootloader finds that partition ID, it will *not load Linux*

    AIUI the boot sequence is this:

    Look for a DOS style VFAT partition on SD card, then USB, then NVME.

    Look for a file named 'cmdline.txt' parse the root partition ID  and
    attempt to load a linux image from the boot  partition and have the
    kernel image mount the aforementioned PARTUUID as root partition.

    If the PARTUUIDs don't match, the boot sequence hangs

    So it is important to have the same PARTUUID in /boot/cmdline.txt, and
    in /etc/fstab, and in the partition label on the boot partition

    The easy way to do this is not to clone the partitions, but the RAW DISK


    And following drucks first suggestion I should run these 2 commands:
    1: dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1M status=progress
    and
    2: dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1M status=progress

    replacing the name of the NVME to what I see when it is installed on
    the raspi.

    Best regards, and thank you for the help.

    That wont work, but you wont destroy anything by trying

    So I will not try :-)

    I think I should not take any more of your time for this project. Using
    a PC and a windows program (Macrium Reflect) to clone the disc will take maybe 30 minutes. Learning the ins and outs of how it should be done in raspi-os can take 14 days for a windows-addict:-)


    dd will clone it in a lot less time

    And that is the point, You MUST clone the WHOLE DISK. Not the partitions
    inside it

    Best regards, and thank you for the help so far.

    --
    In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
    gets full Marx.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu Aug 1 17:53:17 2024
    On 01/08/2024 17:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 17:47:32 +0200
    Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 01.08.2024 13:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 01/08/2024 12:31, Jesper wrote:
    Then the system to copy is on the 2 last lines. Correct?

    No.

    In order to preserve the partition information *you must dd the raw
    disk*

    dd id=/dev/sda od = /dev/nvme0n1 (or whatever)

    That will create a two partition disk with the UUIDS of the partitions
    the same as is mentioned in the boot data: If they don't match it wont
    >boot.

    Are you saying that this command (the one right above) will clone the
    whole disc, and the job is done? Probably not. When I run "dd --help" on
    the system i want to clone, there is no information about the switch
    "id" you use in the command.

    That command is wrong (or for an odd version of dd - but I think
    it's a finger slip) make that:

    dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m

    The add bs=1m will probably work wonders for performance.

    +1

    Not odd command, just brainfade. if=input file, I was thinking
    InputDevice...

    --
    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
    too dark to read.

    Groucho Marx

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to Jesper on Thu Aug 1 19:29:23 2024
    On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 19:50:20 +0200
    Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:

    But I can try running both commands:
    dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m

    This will copy sda2 to nvme0n1

    dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m

    This will overwrite that copy with sda1. You would probably be
    better off cloning sda as a whole - that will get all partitions, boot
    sectors etc.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
    For forms of government let fools contest
    Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Jesper on Thu Aug 1 19:20:51 2024
    On 01/08/2024 18:50, Jesper wrote:
    On 01.08.2024 18:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m

        The add bs=1m will probably work wonders for performance.

    On 01.08.2024 17:47, Jesper wrote:
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ df -h | grep ^/dev/ /dev/sda2           234G   19G   203G    9% / /dev/sda1           511M   76M   436M   15% /boot/firmware For /dev/sda1 it says "firmware", so it probably should/can not be
    copied, and is permanent on the raspi5-system

    The Natural philosopher says to clone both sda1 and sda2. I still wonder
    if sda1 should be cloned. It is listed as "firmware".

    Yes. not only must it be cloned, because it contains instructions as to
    what patition the linux systren is in, but the linux partiton id must be
    cloned as wqell and that does not exost ionside the partibin, but on the
    raw disk
    as well so that it has that partition number

    That sounds to me
    like it is on a flashmemory directly on the raspi5, and you modify it
    with raspi-config->Advanced options->Boot order.

    But I can try running both commands:
    dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m
    dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m

    The second dd will wipe out the first. Dont waste my time, come back
    when you have demonstrated that it doesn't' work

    I've been there and have the T-shirt

    That's how I know what you have to do.

    /boot in the older release is /boot/firmware in the new.

    My Pi4Bookworn SSD that does boot has two partitionb on it


    mounted on my desktop they show this

    /dev/sdb1 510M 61M 450M
    12% /media/leo/bootfs
    /dev/sdb2 110G 5.7G 99G
    6% /media/leo/rootfs

    Bootfs is what gets mounted on /boot/firmware
    rootfs is a traditional Linux filesystem

    In bootfs the cmdline.txt specifies

    /media/leo/bootfs$ more cmdline.txt
    console=serial0,115200 console=tty1 root=PARTUUID=778a9e44-02
    rootfstype=ext4 fsck.repair=yes rootwait noswap=1

    So that specifies the PARTUUID of the partition that *must* be mounted
    as root


    That PARTUUIDs are shown a s follows


    eo@Juliet:/media/leo/bootfs$ sudo blkid /dev/sdb
    /dev/sdb: PTUUID="778a9e44" PTTYPE="dos"
    leo@Juliet:/media/leo/bootfs$ sudo blkid /dev/sdb1
    /dev/sdb1: LABEL_FATBOOT="bootfs" LABEL="bootfs" UUID="5DF9-E225"
    TYPE="vfat" PARTUUID="778a9e44-01"
    leo@Juliet:/media/leo/bootfs$ sudo blkid /dev/sdb2
    /dev/sdb2: LABEL="rootfs" UUID="3b614a3f-4a65-4480-876a-8a998e01ac9b" TYPE="ext4" PARTUUID="778a9e44-02"


    The partition IDs are not stored on the partitions, but in the partition
    table. This is why you have to clone the whole disk, to clone that
    partition table as well.

    After booting linux will mount the original bootfs on /boot/firmware
    (it used to be /boot pirior to bookworm) and the partuuid specified in cmdline.txt as the root partition

    The bootfs will be re-mounted according to what is in fstab

    /etc$ more fstab
    proc /proc proc defaults 0 0 PARTUUID=778a9e44-01 /boot/firmware vfat defaults 0 2 PARTUUID=778a9e44-02 / ext4 defaults,noatime 0 1

    All these ducks have to be lined up in a row or the bloody thing will
    not boot



    --
    Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu Aug 1 19:33:45 2024
    On 01/08/2024 19:29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 19:50:20 +0200
    Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:

    But I can try running both commands:
    dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m

    This will copy sda2 to nvme0n1

    dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m

    This will overwrite that copy with sda1. You would probably be
    better off cloning sda as a whole - that will get all partitions, boot sectors etc.

    +1.

    That will boot, but have spare disk space.
    You can extend the root partition using the Pi toolset, or I hope
    (havent tried it yet) create another partition in the spare disk space....



    --
    The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
    private property.

    Karl Marx

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_Lundin?=@3:770/3 to Jesper on Thu Aug 1 21:38:13 2024
    On 2024-08-01 21:02, Jesper wrote:
    On 01.08.2024 20:29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 19:50:20 +0200
    Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:


    But I still do not know what a command that clones both sda1 and sda2 to
    NVME should look like. Please?

    Really? It is given to you more than once

    dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m


    /dev/sda is the WHOLE disk called /dev/sda
    /dev/sdaX where X is a number is that PARTITION on the disk /dev/sda


    --
    /Björn

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    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From druck@3:770/3 to All on Thu Aug 1 21:15:55 2024
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From druck@3:770/3 to Jesper on Thu Aug 1 21:31:58 2024
    On 01/08/2024 18:50, Jesper wrote:
    The Natural philosopher says to clone both sda1 and sda2. I still wonder
    if sda1 should be cloned. It is listed as "firmware". That sounds to me
    like it is on a flashmemory directly on the raspi5, and you modify it
    with raspi-config->Advanced options->Boot order.

    Bookworm now calls the first FAT partition on the disk which contains
    device file and the kernel 'firmware' and mounts it at /boot/firmware
    (previous versions just mounted at /boot). It is very much required for
    the Pi to start sucessfully.


    But I can try running both commands:
    dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m
    dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m

    Comments?

    Just the one:-

    dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m

    ---druck

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From druck@3:770/3 to All on Thu Aug 1 21:27:33 2024
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From druck@3:770/3 to All on Thu Aug 1 21:38:01 2024
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to druck on Fri Aug 2 07:08:13 2024
    On 01/08/2024 21:15, druck wrote:
    On 01/08/2024 09:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 31/07/2024 21:33, druck wrote:
    As long as your new NVME is larger than the SSD, you can just do low
    level copy with the dd command, then resize the rootfs partition on
    the new drive to use any extra space with the gparted program (if not
    installed use: apt install gparted).

    That will at least get over the problem of having a different partuuid
    etc

    Yes the dd method will avoid any changes to partuuids, where as if you
    use the rsync method you will have to change the values in /etc/fstab
    and also potentially /boot/cmdline.txt (/boot/firmware/cmdline.txt on Bookworm).

    Is it possible to then create a DIFFERENT partition on the empty part
    of the  new disk? And mount it as - say - /home?

    Yes, you can do this with gparted, move the existing /home to the new partition and edit /etc/fstab to contain a line similar to:-

    PARTUUID=abcd1234-03  /home  ext4  nofail,noatime,errors=remount-ro  0 0

    Ta. I thought it probably was. My Pi server build could not handle 3 USB
    drives so I need to reconstruct it with just 2, which means cloning the
    OS onto a fraction of a larger disk.

    Then creating another partition for all the data under /home

    Then do a:-

    mount -a

    ---druck


    --
    "Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace, community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
    "What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

    "Jeremy Corbyn?"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Aug 2 06:48:04 2024
    On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 07:05:21 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    So with the disks attached try

    mount | grep '^/dev'

    To identify the device name.

    lsblk <https://manpages.debian.org/8/lsblk.8.en.html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Jesper on Fri Aug 2 07:05:21 2024
    On 01/08/2024 20:02, Jesper wrote:
    On 01.08.2024 20:29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 19:50:20 +0200
    Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:

    But I can try running both commands:
    dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m

        This will copy sda2 to nvme0n1

    dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m

        This will overwrite that copy with sda1. You would probably be
    better off cloning sda as a whole - that will get all partitions, boot
    sectors etc.

    Yes, that's also what The Natural Philosopher says in his reply. And I
    know that you both of course are right.
    But I still do not know what a command that clones both sda1 and sda2 to
    NVME should look like. Please?

    When I run ls /media i get this:
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ ls /media
    raspberrypi

    Could this work to clone the whole disc:
     dd if=/dev/raspberrypi of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m

     Best regards

    Something like that. But..

    In *nix the whole disk is normally given at connection time a device
    name like /dev/sda
    whereas its *partitions* would be /dev/sda1, /dev/sda2 etc etc.

    when its mounted under /media it may have another name.

    The mount command will show what devices you have and where they are
    mounted.
    So with the disks attached try

    mount | grep '^/dev'

    To identify the device name.

    E.g. when I use the above command on as USB attached raspberry PI
    bootable drive on my desktop machine I get this:

    /dev/sda5 on / type ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)
    /dev/sda1 on /boot/efi type vfat (rw,relatime,fmask=0077,dmask=0077,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,errors=remount-ro)
    /dev/sdb1 on /media/leo/bootfs type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=1000,gid=1000,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro,uhelper=udisks2)
    /dev/sdb2 on /media/leo/rootfs type ext4 (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uhelper=udisks2)

    This shows that the actual PC is running off /dev/sda. but the Pi disk
    has been given the name /dev/sdb

    The fact that its been automounted on /media is irrelevant You can only
    mount *partitions* but you want the whole disk - in this case /dev/sdb2


    --
    The higher up the mountainside
    The greener grows the grass.
    The higher up the monkey climbs
    The more he shows his arse.

    Traditional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_Lundin?=@3:770/3 to All on Fri Aug 2 11:41:13 2024
    On 2024-08-01 21:38, Björn Lundin wrote:
    On 2024-08-01 21:02, Jesper wrote:
    On 01.08.2024 20:29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 19:50:20 +0200
    Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:


    But I still do not know what a command that clones both sda1 and sda2
    to NVME should look like. Please?

    Really? It is given to you more than once

    dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m


    /dev/sda is the WHOLE disk called /dev/sda
    /dev/sdaX where X is a number is that PARTITION on the disk /dev/sda




    I have not seen anybody mentioning sync
    Once the dd command is done, type 'sync'

    In some settings the writing is not quite done yet, the sync forces the
    write of the caches to the device. I see this on my pc running ubuntu
    with 32 Gb RAM.



    --
    /Björn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to All on Fri Aug 2 13:51:47 2024
    On 02/08/2024 10:41, Björn Lundin wrote:
    On 2024-08-01 21:38, Björn Lundin wrote:
    On 2024-08-01 21:02, Jesper wrote:
    On 01.08.2024 20:29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 19:50:20 +0200
    Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:


    But I still do not know what a command that clones both sda1 and sda2
    to NVME should look like. Please?

    Really? It is given to you more than once

    dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m


    /dev/sda is the WHOLE disk called /dev/sda
    /dev/sdaX where X is a number is that PARTITION on the disk /dev/sda




    I have not seen anybody mentioning sync
    Once the dd command is done, type 'sync'

    In some settings the writing is not quite done yet, the sync forces the
    write of the caches to the device. I see this on my pc running ubuntu
    with 32 Gb RAM.



    Never mind sync.

    It's important to wait anyway on an SSD/nvm until it has finished its
    internal business.

    For any copy process.


    --
    All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
    all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
    fully understood.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_Lundin?=@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Aug 2 16:03:52 2024
    On 2024-08-02 14:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Never mind sync.

    It's important to wait anyway on an SSD/nvm until it has finished its internal business.

    For any copy process.


    dd'ing 500 Gb to an ssd disk, I've seen sync taking 30 s or more
    and sync is of course started AFTER dd is done

    So - how do you know it is done its internal business?
    Not all drives have blinking LEDs

    sync makes it easy to know


    --
    /Björn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to All on Fri Aug 2 15:12:57 2024
    On 02/08/2024 15:03, Björn Lundin wrote:
    On 2024-08-02 14:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Never mind sync.

    It's important to wait anyway on an SSD/nvm until it has finished its
    internal business.

    For any copy process.


    dd'ing 500 Gb to an ssd disk, I've seen sync taking 30 s or more
    and sync is of course started AFTER dd is done

    So - how do you know it is done its internal business?
    Not all drives have blinking LEDs

    sync makes it easy to know


    Even sync may not be enough.
    SSDS/NVM have their own internal caching.

    --
    "In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
    true: it is true because it is powerful."

    Lucas Bergkamp

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_Lundin?=@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 3 00:08:00 2024
    On 2024-08-02 16:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 02/08/2024 15:03, Björn Lundin wrote:
    On 2024-08-02 14:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Never mind sync.

    It's important to wait anyway on an SSD/nvm until it has finished its
    internal business.

    For any copy process.


    dd'ing 500 Gb to an ssd disk, I've seen sync taking 30 s or more
    and sync is of course started AFTER dd is done

    So - how do you know it is done its internal business?
    Not all drives have blinking LEDs

    sync makes it easy to know


    Even sync may not be enough.
    SSDS/NVM have their own internal  caching.


    Then the question remains - how do you know when its done?

    from man sync you get
    "sync - Synchronize cached writes to persistent storage"

    In other words, doing sync at least clear the cache,
    which must be better than nothing? or?

    Or are you saying that ripping the power to a newly sync()ed disk may
    mess it up?

    as in

    dd ....
    sync
    rip out usb cord for a 2.5" ssd sata in a usb case or something similar ?


    --
    /Björn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 3 01:27:02 2024
    On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:12:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    SSDS/NVM have their own internal caching.

    True for all drives, unfortunately.

    It’s bloody stupid, because the drive caching is on the wrong side of the drive interface. Better to leave it to the OS, which can use main RAM for
    its filesystem caching, on the fast side of that drive interface.

    When a drive says to the OS driver “write is done”, it should mean “write has gone to actual persistent storage”, not “write is in my cache”.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Richard Kettlewell@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 3 10:02:07 2024
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
    On 02/08/2024 15:03, Björn Lundin wrote:
    dd'ing 500 Gb to an ssd disk, I've seen sync taking 30 s or more
    and sync is of course started AFTER dd is done
    So - how do you know it is done its internal business?
    Not all drives have blinking LEDs
    sync makes it easy to know

    Even sync may not be enough.
    SSDS/NVM have their own internal caching.

    The sync syscall (and command) will flush those too.

    Unless you’ve paid extra for a drive with a huge cache I would expect
    the extra delay while the on-drive cache is flushed to be absolutely
    tiny in human terms, and certainly tiny compared to flushing the OS’s
    cache, which can be multiple gigabytes.

    References:
    * https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/block/writeback_cache_control.txt
    * https://linux.die.net/man/2/sync
    * https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/fs/sync.c#L87

    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to All on Sat Aug 3 11:07:20 2024
    On 02/08/2024 23:08, Björn Lundin wrote:
    On 2024-08-02 16:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 02/08/2024 15:03, Björn Lundin wrote:
    On 2024-08-02 14:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Never mind sync.

    It's important to wait anyway on an SSD/nvm until it has finished
    its internal business.

    For any copy process.


    dd'ing 500 Gb to an ssd disk, I've seen sync taking 30 s or more
    and sync is of course started AFTER dd is done

    So - how do you know it is done its internal business?
    Not all drives have blinking LEDs

    sync makes it easy to know


    Even sync may not be enough.
    SSDS/NVM have their own internal  caching.


    Then the question remains - how do you know when its done?

    from man sync you get
    "sync - Synchronize cached writes to persistent storage"

    In other words, doing sync at least clear the cache,
    which must be better than nothing? or?

    Or are you saying that ripping the power to a newly sync()ed disk may
    mess it up?

    Yes.

    as in

    dd ....
    sync
    rip out usb cord for a 2.5" ssd sata in a usb case or something similar ?


    I am on the edge of my comfort patch here.
    If I were building an SSD I would have a diode and a large capacitor
    inside it to make sure all its caches were dumped to NVRAM before the
    voltage collapsed completely.

    But on a big unit this could take a bit of time.

    What happens between a SATA/USB plug and the actual NVRAM is a bit of a mystery.

    We know its nothing like a 1:1 correlation between 'sector' and physical
    RAM location.
    We knows that physical RAM locations are regularly shuffled for 'wear levelling'
    When is all this done?
    What happens if, during it, there is power failure?

    I honestly do not know, hence the warning to leave the SSD for a few
    seconds before yanking any power cords

    It can do no harm


    --
    "The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
    man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
    thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
    before him."

    - Leo Tolstoy

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_Lundin?=@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 3 13:52:39 2024
    On 2024-08-03 12:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    I am on the edge of my comfort patch here.
    If I were building an SSD I would have a diode and a large capacitor
    inside it to make sure all its caches were dumped to NVRAM before the
    voltage collapsed completely.

    But on a big unit this could take a bit of time.

    What happens between a SATA/USB plug and the actual NVRAM is a bit of a mystery.

    We know its nothing like a 1:1 correlation between 'sector' and physical
    RAM location.
    We knows that physical RAM locations are regularly shuffled for 'wear levelling'
    When is all this done?
    What happens if, during it, there is power failure?

    I honestly do not know, hence the warning to leave the SSD for a few
    seconds before yanking any power cords

    It can do no harm

    And that is my point. sync will do no harm either,
    but it might save you, especially when you are dd()ing an image smaller
    that the RAM of the computer.
    Like I have 32 Gb RAM, and dd an image of 4 Gb (like a headless) onto a
    SD-card to run an old pi. The interface is slow, yet dd reports done
    within a minute. sync takes a long time to flush it over.

    Just waiting a few secs will end in disappointment

    --
    /Björn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_Lundin?=@3:770/3 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Sat Aug 3 13:54:33 2024
    On 2024-08-03 03:27, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:12:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    SSDS/NVM have their own internal caching.

    True for all drives, unfortunately.

    It’s bloody stupid, because the drive caching is on the wrong side of the drive interface. Better to leave it to the OS, which can use main RAM for
    its filesystem caching, on the fast side of that drive interface.

    When a drive says to the OS driver “write is done”, it should mean “write
    has gone to actual persistent storage”, not “write is in my cache”.


    I think they cause grief in the postgres mail lists some 15-20 years ago.
    They were called 'lying IDE-disks' and were not popular in that crowd.


    --
    /Björn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to All on Sat Aug 3 12:59:17 2024
    On 03/08/2024 12:52, Björn Lundin wrote:
    On 2024-08-03 12:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    I am on the edge of my comfort patch here.
    If I were building an SSD I would have a diode and a large capacitor
    inside it to make sure all its caches were dumped to NVRAM before the
    voltage collapsed completely.

    But on a big unit this could take a bit of time.

    What happens between a SATA/USB plug and the actual NVRAM is a bit of
    a mystery.

    We know its nothing like a 1:1 correlation between 'sector' and
    physical RAM location.
    We knows that physical RAM locations are regularly shuffled for 'wear
    levelling'
    When is all this done?
    What happens if, during it, there is power failure?

    I honestly do not know, hence the warning to leave the SSD for a few
    seconds before yanking any power cords

    It can do no harm

    And that is my point. sync will do no harm either,
    but it might save you, especially when you are dd()ing an image smaller
    that the RAM of the computer.
    Like I have 32 Gb RAM, and dd an image of 4 Gb (like a headless) onto a SD-card to run an old pi. The interface is slow, yet dd reports done
    within a minute. sync takes a long time to flush it over.

    Just waiting a few secs will end in disappointment

    Well I will be at some stage dd-ing about 60GByte across to a 2TB disk,
    but given the hassle, sync and a cup of coffee wait before unplugging
    it, is likely.

    RK claims the wait afterwards isn't necessary. Completing 'sync' is
    enough. He generally doesn't comment unless he knows.

    I simply do not know how a command to something purporting to resemble a
    hard drive, that isnt can guarantee all data in it is flushed.


    --
    To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn_Lundin?=@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 3 14:35:50 2024
    On 2024-08-03 13:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    I simply do not know how a command to something purporting to resemble a
    hard drive, that isnt can guarantee all data in it is flushed.


    We might talk about different things.
    I'm thinking of what the OS is caching. That sync is flushing that part
    of the OS cache.

    Not whatever clever memory that is inside a storage device.


    looking at <https://linux.die.net/man/8/sync>

    """
    The kernel keeps data in memory to avoid doing (relatively slow) disk
    reads and writes. This improves performance, but if the computer
    crashes, data may be lost or the file system corrupted as a result. sync ensures that everything in memory is written to disk.
    """


    So, what I think is that dd writes to a slow device, and it is cached by
    the OS.
    sync forces the OS to actually write to slow device.

    This may not be true with new and shiny fast NVM storage, but the
    principle holds.

    do a sync after a dd operation.


    --
    /Björn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Richard Kettlewell@3:770/3 to bnl@nowhere.com on Sat Aug 3 19:51:15 2024
    Björn Lundin <bnl@nowhere.com> writes:
    On 2024-08-03 03:27, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 15:12:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    SSDS/NVM have their own internal caching.
    True for all drives, unfortunately.
    It’s bloody stupid, because the drive caching is on the wrong side
    of the
    drive interface. Better to leave it to the OS, which can use main RAM for
    its filesystem caching, on the fast side of that drive interface.
    When a drive says to the OS driver “write is done”, it should mean
    “write
    has gone to actual persistent storage”, not “write is in my cache”.

    I think they cause grief in the postgres mail lists some 15-20 years ago. They were called 'lying IDE-disks' and were not popular in that crowd.

    ‘Lying disks’ are those that either disregard flush operations, or lie about whether they have a write-back cache at all. That is certainly a
    stupid outcome, though as a response to operating systems or
    applications that are over-eager to flush, you can see why there’d be pressure from marketing to do it, and acceptance from market segments
    that either don’t value data integrity or alternatively assume that the storage is unreliable and address the issue some other way.

    I think what Lawrence is complaining about is the fact that the default behavior, even for a non-lying disk, is when a SATA device returns a
    response to the host, this may indicate only that data has been
    transferred to an internal write-back cache rather than the underlying
    medium.

    But that’s just the normal engineering response to high physical IO
    latency.

    Recall that both traditional hard disks and SSDs do not have a 1:1
    mapping between the logical block read/writes requested by the host. In
    a hard disk it takes time to reach the correct track, and the order of
    writes from the host may not match the track order. In an SSD multiple
    logical blocks are grouped into pages and pages must be written in a
    single operation.

    The same logic turns up elsewhere. The write() syscall completing
    normally only indicates that data has been transferred to the operating system’s RAM cache, not to your SSD or hard disk (and certainly not to a remote disk, when using a network filesystem). A memory write
    instruction on a modern CPU only transfers a value to an internal write
    buffer; the data may only reach the external DRAM hundreds of cycles
    later, or not at all if the same location is written again soon.

    The alternative is absurdly slow write IO. Usually there are some
    combination of flush operations, synchronous IO modes, barrier
    operations, etc, to allow data integrity requirements to be met without sacrificing performance globally (and this is true both at the Linux
    syscall layer and in the SATA protocol ... provided of course your disk
    does not lie).

    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Computer Nerd Kev@3:770/3 to bnl@nowhere.com on Sun Aug 4 09:30:38 2024
    Bj?rn Lundin <bnl@nowhere.com> wrote:
    looking at <https://linux.die.net/man/8/sync>

    """
    The kernel keeps data in memory to avoid doing (relatively slow) disk
    reads and writes. This improves performance, but if the computer
    crashes, data may be lost or the file system corrupted as a result. sync ensures that everything in memory is written to disk.
    """


    So, what I think is that dd writes to a slow device, and it is cached by
    the OS.
    sync forces the OS to actually write to slow device.

    I've used the "conv=fsync" option to dd so that sync is done
    automatically. Since the man page is rather vague about it, I did
    a web search to double check that I wasn't imagining things and
    found this page which describes the behaviour with some examples:

    https://abbbi.github.io/dd/

    This may not be true with new and shiny fast NVM storage, but the
    principle holds.

    The tests at that link were done with a RAM disk, and the kernel
    was caching writes to that, so it doesn't look like the caching
    system is smart enough to know when a device is fast enough that
    the cache isn't required.

    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _#

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@3:770/3 to Richard Kettlewell on Sun Aug 4 04:22:09 2024
    On Sat, 03 Aug 2024 19:51:15 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

    The alternative is absurdly slow write IO.

    Caches cannot increase overall transfer bandwidth, they can only reduce latency. Which we don’t care about, because OS filesystem cache flushing
    is a batch-type operation anyway.

    Which is why having these drives lie about when their writes have
    completed is such a dumb idea.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Computer Nerd Kev on Sun Aug 4 13:13:09 2024
    On 04/08/2024 00:30, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    I've used the "conv=fsync" option to dd so that sync is done
    automatically. Since the man page is rather vague about it, I did
    a web search to double check that I wasn't imagining things and

    Apropos of not too much, I finally got around to copying my old 120GB Pi
    boot disk to an image file, and splatting that back onto a 2TB SSD that
    now has according to a GUI based disk editor shitloads of 'unused' space.

    (The reason I didnt do it directly was on account of a lack of
    functional and accessible USB slots in the computer I used.)

    All looks ok, with a bootfs and a rootfs partition on it, but I haven't actually booted it yet.

    I didn't sync it, I went to the supermarket instead, and left it
    running, and then left it running on the second transfer while I had
    the evening meal.

    It appears to be OK

    More later... I overslept badly and it may be Monday before more gets done.


    --
    “Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.”

    H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sun Aug 4 20:16:16 2024
    On 04/08/2024 13:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 04/08/2024 00:30, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    I've used the "conv=fsync" option to dd so that sync is done
    automatically. Since the man page is rather vague about it, I did
    a web search to double check that I wasn't imagining things and

    Apropos of not too much, I finally got around to copying my old 120GB Pi
    boot disk to an image file, and splatting that back onto a 2TB SSD that
    now has according to a GUI based disk editor shitloads of 'unused' space.

    (The reason I didnt do it directly was on account of a lack of
    functional and accessible USB slots in the computer I used.)

    All looks ok, with a bootfs and a rootfs partition on it,  but I haven't actually booted it yet.

    I didn't sync it, I went to the supermarket instead, and left it
    running, and then left it running on the second transfer while I had the evening meal.

    It appears to be OK

    More later... I overslept badly and it may be Monday before more gets done.


    Tried to reboot the thing and it failed, although it managed to get as
    far as system maintenance mode.

    Using that mode I then removed all the disks no longer attached, from
    fstab, and its now at a normal login prompt!

    Next step was to partition the spare space and reattach the second drive

    So dd et al work perfectly as far as I can tell. when applied to the raw
    disk

    I don't know why it barfed on having disks mentioned in fstab that
    didn't exist (yet) but it is another thing to be aware of when migrating
    a system

    --
    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
    that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

    Jonathan Swift.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Sun Aug 4 23:51:11 2024
    On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 20:16:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    I don't know why it barfed on having disks mentioned in fstab that
    didn't exist (yet) ...

    T’was ever thus. Without the “nofail” mount option, the system assumes the
    volume absolutely has to be present for a successful boot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Jesper on Fri Aug 16 11:40:02 2024
    On 16/08/2024 10:04, Jesper wrote:
    On 01.08.2024 21:38, Björn Lundin wrote:
    On 2024-08-01 21:02, Jesper wrote:
    On 01.08.2024 20:29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 19:50:20 +0200
    Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:


    But I still do not know what a command that clones both sda1 and sda2
    to NVME should look like. Please?

    Really? It is given to you more than once

    dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m


    Now I have the nvme installed and showing in a lsblk command.
    Booted from a SD-card and did a few tries to copy the system from SSD to nvme.
    First there was a complaint about the switch "1m". Changed it to "1b"
    and got a complaint about missing permission to open SDA (the SSD I want
    to copy from). Threw a sudo at it, and it ran for maybe half an hour,
    until it stopped with error "writing nvme0n1, No space left on device".
    The SSD and the nvme have the same size, and that seems to be a problem.
     Bright ideas are welcome :-)

    Below I have copied in what happend in the command line: raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ lsblk
    NAME        MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINTS sda           8:0    0 238.5G  0 disk
    ├─sda1        8:1    0   512M  0 part /media/raspberrypi/bootfs
    └─sda2        8:2    0   238G  0 part /media/raspberrypi/rootfs
    mmcblk0     179:0    0    58G  0 disk
    ├─mmcblk0p1 179:1    0   512M  0 part /boot/firmware └─mmcblk0p2 179:2    0  57.5G  0 part /
    nvme0n1     259:0    0 238.5G  0 disk
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1 bs=1m
    dd: invalid number: ‘1m’
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1 bs=1b
    dd: failed to open '/dev/sda': Permission denied
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1
    dd: failed to open '/dev/sda': Permission denied
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ sudo dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1 bs=1b
    dd: error writing '/nvme0n1': No space left on device
    107929249+0 records in
    107929248+0 records out
    55259774976 bytes (55 GB, 51 GiB) copied, 1476.65 s, 37.4 MB/s raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~

    Best regards

    WTF is '/nvme0n1' ?

    It looks like you have created a file in the root directory of the
    device you are copying from....




    --
    "Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

    ― Confucius

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Jesper on Fri Aug 16 12:23:19 2024
    On 16/08/2024 12:19, Jesper wrote:
    On 16.08.2024 12:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 16/08/2024 10:04, Jesper wrote:
    On 01.08.2024 21:38, Björn Lundin wrote:
    On 2024-08-01 21:02, Jesper wrote:
    On 01.08.2024 20:29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 19:50:20 +0200
    Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:


    But I still do not know what a command that clones both sda1 and
    sda2 to NVME should look like. Please?

    Really? It is given to you more than once

    dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m


    Now I have the nvme installed and showing in a lsblk command.
    Booted from a SD-card and did a few tries to copy the system from SSD
    to nvme.
    First there was a complaint about the switch "1m". Changed it to "1b"
    and got a complaint about missing permission to open SDA (the SSD I
    want to copy from). Threw a sudo at it, and it ran for maybe half an
    hour, until it stopped with error "writing nvme0n1, No space left on
    device".
    The SSD and the nvme have the same size, and that seems to be a problem. >>>   Bright ideas are welcome :-)

    Below I have copied in what happend in the command line:
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ lsblk
    NAME        MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINTS
    sda           8:0    0 238.5G  0 disk
    ├─sda1        8:1    0   512M  0 part /media/raspberrypi/bootfs
    └─sda2        8:2    0   238G  0 part /media/raspberrypi/rootfs
    mmcblk0     179:0    0    58G  0 disk
    ├─mmcblk0p1 179:1    0   512M  0 part /boot/firmware
    └─mmcblk0p2 179:2    0  57.5G  0 part /
    nvme0n1     259:0    0 238.5G  0 disk
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1 bs=1m
    dd: invalid number: ‘1m’
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1 bs=1b
    dd: failed to open '/dev/sda': Permission denied
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1
    dd: failed to open '/dev/sda': Permission denied
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ sudo dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1 bs=1b
    dd: error writing '/nvme0n1': No space left on device
    107929249+0 records in
    107929248+0 records out
    55259774976 bytes (55 GB, 51 GiB) copied, 1476.65 s, 37.4 MB/s
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~

    Best regards

    Thank you for the reply.
    WTF is '/nvme0n1' ?
    "nvme0n1" is the "fucking" NVME I have installed in the raspi5.

    Not as far as dd is concerned.
    What does the outpout of
    ls /n*
    and
    ls /dev/n*
    show?



    It looks like you have created a file in the root directory of the
    device you are copying from....
    I see no trace of the new file you are referring to.

    Somehow that does not surprise me

    Best regards



    --
    The higher up the mountainside
    The greener grows the grass.
    The higher up the monkey climbs
    The more he shows his arse.

    Traditional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Jesper on Fri Aug 16 13:50:55 2024
    On 16/08/2024 12:52, Jesper wrote:
    On 16.08.2024 13:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 16/08/2024 12:19, Jesper wrote:
    On 16.08.2024 12:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 16/08/2024 10:04, Jesper wrote:
    On 01.08.2024 21:38, Björn Lundin wrote:
    On 2024-08-01 21:02, Jesper wrote:
    On 01.08.2024 20:29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 19:50:20 +0200
    Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:


    But I still do not know what a command that clones both sda1 and >>>>>>> sda2 to NVME should look like. Please?

    Really? It is given to you more than once

    dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1m


    Now I have the nvme installed and showing in a lsblk command.
    Booted from a SD-card and did a few tries to copy the system from
    SSD to nvme.
    First there was a complaint about the switch "1m". Changed it to
    "1b" and got a complaint about missing permission to open SDA (the
    SSD I want to copy from). Threw a sudo at it, and it ran for maybe
    half an hour, until it stopped with error "writing nvme0n1, No
    space left on device".
    The SSD and the nvme have the same size, and that seems to be a
    problem.
      Bright ideas are welcome :-)

    Below I have copied in what happend in the command line:
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ lsblk
    NAME        MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINTS
    sda           8:0    0 238.5G  0 disk
    ├─sda1        8:1    0   512M  0 part /media/raspberrypi/bootfs
    └─sda2        8:2    0   238G  0 part /media/raspberrypi/rootfs
    mmcblk0     179:0    0    58G  0 disk
    ├─mmcblk0p1 179:1    0   512M  0 part /boot/firmware
    └─mmcblk0p2 179:2    0  57.5G  0 part /
    nvme0n1     259:0    0 238.5G  0 disk
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1 bs=1m
    dd: invalid number: ‘1m’
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1 bs=1b
    dd: failed to open '/dev/sda': Permission denied
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1
    dd: failed to open '/dev/sda': Permission denied
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ sudo dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1 bs=1b
    dd: error writing '/nvme0n1': No space left on device
    107929249+0 records in
    107929248+0 records out
    55259774976 bytes (55 GB, 51 GiB) copied, 1476.65 s, 37.4 MB/s
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~

    Best regards

    Thank you for the reply.
    WTF is '/nvme0n1' ?
    "nvme0n1" is the "fucking" NVME I have installed in the raspi5.

    Not as far as dd is concerned.
    What does the outpout of
    ls /n*
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ ls /n*
    ls: klarte ikke å åpne '/n*': Ingen slik fil eller filkatalog
    It means "Could not open /n*. No such file or catalog"

    So there is no '/nvme0n1' to copy to is there?
    IT ISN'T your NVM.

    and
    ls /dev/n*
    show?
    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ ls /dev/n*
    /dev/ng0n1  /dev/null  /dev/nvme0  /dev/nvme0n1


    Right. so the draw device ce is /dev/nvme0

    So try

    sudo dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/nvme0 bs=1M


    Note:
    /dev/nvme0 NOT /nvme0n1
    1M not 1m.






    --
    “Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
    a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

    Dennis Miller

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Fri Aug 16 14:17:04 2024
    On 16/08/2024 13:46, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 11:04:26 +0200
    Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:

    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ sudo dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1 bs=1b
    dd: error writing '/nvme0n1': No space left on device

    Your command is missing a /dev it should be:

    sudo dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1b

    No. Again 2 things wroing.

    /dev/nvme0 is the RAW device.

    bs=1M is correct for decent transfer rate



    The "no space on device" error comes because without the /dev dd is attempting to write a file called nvme0n1 in / but since / runs out of
    space before it finishes the file is never closed and thus no directory
    entry is written which is why yuou never see it.

    Also I don't think bs=1b is likely to be a good blocksize (1
    byte). If the version of dd you're using doesn't support bs=1m then try bs=1024k or be=1048576. The idea is to get it to use the largest block size (and thus writes) that the data path will support.

    bs=1M is sensible.

    1Mib.

    --
    Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
    doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
    don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to Jesper on Fri Aug 16 13:46:36 2024
    On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 11:04:26 +0200
    Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:

    raspberrypi@raspberrypi:~ $ sudo dd if=/dev/sda of=/nvme0n1 bs=1b
    dd: error writing '/nvme0n1': No space left on device

    Your command is missing a /dev it should be:

    sudo dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/nvme0n1 bs=1b
    _______________________^^^^^

    The "no space on device" error comes because without the /dev dd is attempting to write a file called nvme0n1 in / but since / runs out of
    space before it finishes the file is never closed and thus no directory
    entry is written which is why yuou never see it.

    Also I don't think bs=1b is likely to be a good blocksize (1
    byte). If the version of dd you're using doesn't support bs=1m then try bs=1024k or be=1048576. The idea is to get it to use the largest block size (and thus writes) that the data path will support.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
    For forms of government let fools contest
    Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From druck@3:770/3 to All on Fri Aug 16 21:34:42 2024
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    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@3:770/3 to druck on Sat Aug 17 05:45:32 2024
    On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 21:34:42 +0100, druck wrote:

    On 16/08/2024 10:04, Jesper wrote:

    The SSD and the nvme have the same size ...

    But are they?

    This is why rsync is so much easier.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From druck@3:770/3 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Mon Aug 19 09:06:58 2024
    On 17/08/2024 06:45, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 21:34:42 +0100, druck wrote:

    On 16/08/2024 10:04, Jesper wrote:

    The SSD and the nvme have the same size ...

    But are they?

    This is why rsync is so much easier.

    It isn't, but my original post in this thread gave full instructions on
    how to do that too.

    ---druck

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)