On 2021-03-15, Barrk <Barrk@k9t8.net> wrote:
The only hope for General-Purpose Computing is to make
it somehow "cool". Otherwise there will soon be nothing
but Specialty computers, all produced/owned by the tech
giants, designed to only serve their purposes.
Unfortunately, J. Random Luser is easily hypnotized by
shiny things. I've heard this referred to as "trout
management": dangle something shiny with a hook in it
in front of them and they'll strike every time.
Recommended reading:
https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html
On 15 Mar 2021 20:41:33 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
On 2021-03-15, Barrk <Barrk@k9t8.net> wrote:
The only hope for General-Purpose Computing is to make
it somehow "cool". Otherwise there will soon be nothing
but Specialty computers, all produced/owned by the tech
giants, designed to only serve their purposes.
Unfortunately, J. Random Luser is easily hypnotized by
shiny things. I've heard this referred to as "trout
management": dangle something shiny with a hook in it
in front of them and they'll strike every time.
Recommended reading:
https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html
Very very unfortunately, he's right about the trend.
(Near) Future-tech will not SERVE you, only EXPLOIT you.
And Joe Consumer will PAY to get fucked over.
Oooh !!! Shiny !
(50 points if you know where that last phrase came from :-)
On 15 Mar 2021 20:41:33 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
On 2021-03-15, Barrk <Barrk@k9t8.net> wrote:
The only hope for General-Purpose Computing is to make
it somehow "cool". Otherwise there will soon be nothing
but Specialty computers, all produced/owned by the tech
giants, designed to only serve their purposes.
Unfortunately, J. Random Luser is easily hypnotized by
shiny things. I've heard this referred to as "trout
management": dangle something shiny with a hook in it
in front of them and they'll strike every time.
Recommended reading:
https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html
Very very unfortunately, he's right about the trend.
(Near) Future-tech will not SERVE you, only EXPLOIT you.
And Joe Consumer will PAY to get fucked over.
Oooh !!! Shiny !
(50 points if you know where that last phrase came from :-)
On 15 Mar 2021 20:41:33 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
Recommended reading:
https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html
Very very unfortunately, he's right about the trend.
(Near) Future-tech will not SERVE you, only EXPLOIT you.
It is like 50-60 years disenlightment - what do you expect.
From personal experience with people Enlightment is very sophisticated process and must start early in someones life and must have the specific social context to work.
If everybody is in youtube and facebook you can not explain easily why it
is not good to the avg. Joe.
It starts in the family, in the kindergarden, in school and then it is
almost already too late.
You can imagine how many generations were lost in these 50-60y and most important what damage was done to all of the humanity.
I see idiocracy multiply and intelligence disappear. Very unfortunate!
"Barrk" wrote in message news:40335glus6bsnn2rqe81fi8bc8sevso883@4ax.com...
On 15 Mar 2021 20:41:33 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
Recommended reading:
https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html
Very very unfortunately, he's right about the trend.
(Near) Future-tech will not SERVE you, only EXPLOIT you.
Elon Musk's warning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIHhl6HLgp0
Last chance, people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Osn1gMNtw
"Idiocracy" (2006) is already alive and well:
(Near) Future-tech will not SERVE you, only EXPLOIT you.
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 01:00:48 -0400
Barrk <Barrk@k9t8.net> wrote:
(Near) Future-tech will not SERVE you, only EXPLOIT you.
It is amazing how many people seem to think this is a new fear, it
is far from being so - and it has never been true and won't be until *this* fear becomes true "As machines become more intelligent it will first become possible and then necessary to bribe them".
Right now and for all of history to date the exploitation of people
has been done by *people*, technology is simply another tool in the box of those who like to exploit and control and it is one that serves *them* very well. However technology is a *tool* and like all tools the result of using it depends on the intent and skill of the user and not the nature of the tool. For example you could use nuclear explosives to sculpt artwork onto dead planetoids or you could use them to threaten nations and influence policies.
"Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote
The only hope for General-Purpose Computing is to make
it somehow "cool". Otherwise there will soon be nothing
but Specialty computers, all produced/owned by the tech
giants, designed to only serve their purposes.
Unfortunately, J. Random Luser is easily hypnotized by
shiny things. I've heard this referred to as "trout
management": dangle something shiny with a hook in it
in front of them and they'll strike every time.
It's easy to express contempt for non-tech people,
but it's mainly the techies who are hypnotized by video
games. They're mainly the people who got suckered into
"invitations" to gmail. They're the ones pushing the
switch to Chrome, using their phones to pay for things,
supporting unregulated exploitation of workers through
Uber and Lyft, shopping via Amazon, buying crap food
in unrecycled containers via GrubHub or DoorDash...
You might not be a Facebookie, but if you live by your
phone then you're exploited by either Google or Apple...
plus dataminers. And you're cultivating a lifestyle
mediated by middlemen.
Why? Because tech hipsters thought it was "cool".
Lately there's talk of a COVID vaccine cert that will
require a cellphone. Why do we now just assume that
life happens on a cellphone? Instead of selling everyone
a PC, how about putting down your phone.
Do you play video games while being over 16 years old?
If so then look in the mirror to see your trout. There's
no super-mind plotting control over you. There are just
confused, power-hungry, driven people like Bezos and Gates
and Jobs and Cook and Schmidt.
"Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote
| > The only hope for General-Purpose Computing is to make
| > it somehow "cool". Otherwise there will soon be nothing
| > but Specialty computers, all produced/owned by the tech
| > giants, designed to only serve their purposes.
|
| Unfortunately, J. Random Luser is easily hypnotized by
| shiny things. I've heard this referred to as "trout
| management": dangle something shiny with a hook in it
| in front of them and they'll strike every time.
It's easy to express contempt for non-tech people,
but it's mainly the techies who are hypnotized by video
games. They're mainly the people who got suckered into
"invitations" to gmail. They're the ones pushing the
switch to Chrome, using their phones to pay for things,
supporting unregulated exploitation of workers through
Uber and Lyft, shopping via Amazon, buying crap food
in unrecycled containers via GrubHub or DoorDash...
You might not be a Facebookie, but if you live by your
phone then you're exploited by either Google or Apple...
plus dataminers. And you're cultivating a lifestyle
mediated by middlemen.
Why? Because tech hipsters thought it was "cool".
Lately there's talk of a COVID vaccine cert that will
require a cellphone. Why do we now just assume that
life happens on a cellphone? Instead of selling everyone
a PC, how about putting down your phone.
There's no reason the general public needs to want
to do programming, video editing, or other things done
on computers. What they need is privacy law. It's just
like everything else. You don't get safe food by teaching
nutrition or safe cars by turning everyone into a mechanic.
You get there with regulation, so that everyone doesn't
need to be an expert.
On the bright side, Europe has been more advanced than
the US on that score, and Biden seems to be hiring people
who want to break up the tech monopolies. We might get
there. In the meantime, do you watch junk TV? Do you
eat fast food or junk food, or drink sodas? Have you
been suickered into buying designer water? Do you play video
games while being over 16 years old? If so then look in the
mirror to see your trout. There's no super-mind plotting
control over you. There are just confused, power-hungry,
driven people like Bezos and Gates and Jobs and Cook and
Schmidt. And there are their markets. Same thing. You
should regard it as a warning sign when you decide that
somehow you're the only person who thinks for themselves.
It is amazing how many people seem to think this is a new fear, it
is far from being so - and it has never been true and won't be until
*this* fear becomes true "As machines become more intelligent it will
first become possible and then necessary to bribe them".
Right now and for all of history to date the exploitation of people
has been done by *people*, technology is simply another tool in the box of those who like to exploit and control and it is one that serves *them*
very well. However technology is a *tool* and like all tools the result of using it depends on the intent and skill of the user and not the nature of the tool. For example you could use nuclear explosives to sculpt artwork
onto dead planetoids or you could use them to threaten nations and
influence policies.
(Near) Future-tech will not SERVE you, only EXPLOIT you.
It is amazing how many people seem to think this is a new fear, it is far from being so - and it has never been true and won't be until *this* fear becomes true "As machines become more intelligent it will first become possible and then necessary to bribe them".
On the bright side, Europe has been more advanced than
the US on that score, and Biden seems to be hiring people
who want to break up the tech monopolies. We might get
there. In the meantime, do you watch junk TV? Do you
eat fast food or junk food, or drink sodas? Have you
been suickered into buying designer water? Do you play video
games while being over 16 years old? If so then look in the
mirror to see your trout. There's no super-mind plotting
control over you. There are just confused, power-hungry,
driven people like Bezos and Gates and Jobs and Cook and
Schmidt. And there are their markets. Same thing. You
should regard it as a warning sign when you decide that
somehow you're the only person who thinks for themselves.
I am older than 16 years old, I happen to play games occasionally, and I don't really get what is the problem I should be finding in the mirror.
You may be able to fix your car, house and dinner. I don't
know. But I'm sure there are things in life that you depend on
without understanding how they work. And your confidence
using those things probably depends on regulation.
Those are all common sense and common decency. The only
reason they're not illegal is because the crime is frictionless and invisible, and the operation of it is not widely understood. Even
the US Congress seems to have few people capable of
understanding the stakes. If you think the problem is lack of
public education then you're living in your own private Idaho.
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 22:55:24 -0400
"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
Those are all common sense and common decency. The only
reason they're not illegal is because the crime is frictionless and
invisible, and the operation of it is not widely understood. Even
the US Congress seems to have few people capable of
understanding the stakes. If you think the problem is lack of
public education then you're living in your own private Idaho.
No. There are now people and businesses rich enough to buy entire governments, or at least, political parties. That's the problem.
No. Only in your role as consumer. No one is expected
to understand car mechanics. Nor is a home owner expected
XPost: alt.anonymous, comp.misc, alt.os.linux
XPost: talk.politics.misc
Mayayana wrote:
You may be able to fix your car, house and dinner. I don't
know. But I'm sure there are things in life that you depend on
without understanding how they work. And your confidence
using those things probably depends on regulation.
The absurdity of this all is the "precedence" in the US law. So you can make and sell a toy or airplane that would fail. People would die and only after this they will regulate.
I am not for regulations, but as you point out in many cases they are required, so that our lives are endangered.
Recently the EU introduced a low "the right to repair". I doubt that it will have effect, because even if I knew how to repair my broken car, manufactures make special tools that are so expensive that only the car repair shop can afford. Some tools are available only for licensed shops. This is pure pornography
"Joe" <joe@jretrading.com> wrote |
| > Those are all common sense and common decency. The only
| > reason they're not illegal is because the crime is frictionless and
| > invisible, and the operation of it is not widely understood. Even
| > the US Congress seems to have few people capable of
| > understanding the stakes. If you think the problem is lack of
| > public education then you're living in your own private Idaho.
| >
|
| No. There are now people and businesses rich enough to buy entire
| governments, or at least, political parties. That's the problem.
|
Ah. Why didn't you say so? So it's hopeless. I guess
I'll go back to bed.
Re: Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
By: Deloptes to Mayayana on Fri Mar 19 2021 08:38 am
> XPost: alt.anonymous, comp.misc, alt.os.linux
> XPost: talk.politics.misc
>
> Mayayana wrote:
>
> > You may be able to fix your car, house and dinner. I don't
> > know. But I'm sure there are things in life that you depend on
> > without understanding how they work. And your confidence
> > using those things probably depends on regulation.
>
> The absurdity of this all is the "precedence" in the US law. So you can make
> and sell a toy or airplane that would fail. People would die and only after
> this they will regulate.
> I am not for regulations, but as you point out in many cases they are
> required, so that our lives are endangered.
> Recently the EU introduced a low "the right to repair". I doubt that it will
> have effect, because even if I knew how to repair my broken car,
> manufactures make special tools that are so expensive that only the car
> repair shop can afford. Some tools are available only for licensed shops.
> This is pure pornography
Regulations have a tendency to be reactive instead of proactive
everywhere, not
just the US. Politicians are bad at addressing problems regarding fields of expertise they don't dominate, so they only get to address them once the problem is actually impacting people and thus becomes known _to them_.
Which is why you should do your homework while politicians are struggling to put their paperwork together.
--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
?? I don't know where you live. I had to drive around
the block with a cop in the passenger seat, and correctly
answer 7 of 10 questions like, "What does a hexagon
shaped sign indicate?"
On 2021-03-19, Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
?? I don't know where you live. I had to drive around
the block with a cop in the passenger seat, and correctly
answer 7 of 10 questions like, "What does a hexagon
shaped sign indicate?"
Dunno. I do know what an octagon-shaped sign indicates... <g,d&r>
Take climate change. Whole rafts of proactive legislation that does not addfess an existing problem that affects people, but a *possible* future
one that *might* affect people, that in any case does *not* address carbon *emissions*, only make profits for 'green' 'renewable' companies
who are heavily subsidised as well. They cant fail. Except they do all
the time.
Legislation is the primary way to market product no one wants or needs,
by mandating its adoption. And thus obsoleting existing perfectly
functional product.
True true - Tesla becomes green after >200000km if all goes well and you do not replace the battery after 5y. Until then the best is diesel fuel - the one they want to ban, because it's engine is most efficient and green. I
was shocked - there were studies - big studies - "they" refused to make public. Crazy!
Diesel
carbon monoxide
The question of whether someone is authorized to use a device
is different. Are you going to require a license to operate a
TV or cellphone? In a car you might put others at risk. Not
knowing that your browser or TV are spying on you is hardly
a public risk.
Diesel should be banned from the face of the earth. It has killed
thousands of people by pollution (particulates, nitrogen dioxide and
carbon monoxide) and continues to do so.
Also, once a diesel, always a diesel - that's the only fuel it can
consume during its entire life.
Electric cars kill very few people by pollution, because the pollution that's created today in the power generation process is much diluted
before it reaches humans - and as time goes on, more and more
electricity is being generated from non-polluting sources, so the
pollution is decreasing. Rapidly.
David
David Higton wrote:
Diesel
carbon monoxide
Alright, that suffices. The rest of your post is obviously not worth
looking at. There may well be subjects, you do know something about.
I think you're taking too much an engineer's point of
view. What about gardening? Cooking? You want
people to be forced to have the kind of expertise you
have, but that's a very abstruse kind of expertise. You're
looking at it as a techie. If that makes sense then why
can't a florist refuse to sell you a rose bush unless you
can show that you know how to take care of it? That
gets silly very quickly.
I take it you're attempting to deny the facts in some way.
Nitrogen dioxide kills by causing asthma attacks.
"Deloptes" <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote
| True true - Tesla becomes green after >200000km if all goes well and you
do
| not replace the battery after 5y. Until then the best is diesel fuel -
| the one they want to ban, because it's engine is most efficient and
| green. I was shocked - there were studies - big studies - "they" refused
| to make public. Crazy!
|
I came across this report at one point:
https://theicct.org/publications/EV-battery-manufacturing-emissions
Not as shocking as you're indicating, but certainly
questioning the "greenness" of electric. Both the battery
manufacture and the source of electricity are factors.
Re: Re: Taking a Stand in the War on General-Purpose Computing
By: David Higton to Deloptes on Fri Mar 19 2021 08:34 pm
> Diesel should be banned from the face of the earth. It has killed
> thousands of people by pollution (particulates, nitrogen dioxide and
> carbon monoxide) and continues to do so.
>
> Also, once a diesel, always a diesel - that's the only fuel it can
> consume during its entire life.
>
> Electric cars kill very few people by pollution, because the pollution
> that's created today in the power generation process is much diluted
> before it reaches humans - and as time goes on, more and more
> electricity is being generated from non-polluting sources, so the
> pollution is decreasing. Rapidly.
>
> David
Conbustion engines tend not to produce meaningful ammounts of carbon monoxide unless they are badly tuned. Carbon monoxide is the signature of bad combustion
and car designers and techniccians go to great lengths to ensure the combustion
is any good.
Your regular coal powered power plant (which is the sort of thing a lot of countries would use to charge electric cars, if they had them in significative
numbers) is more complex.
are likely to produce a lot of byproducts like sulphur (in addition to the regular CO2). Nowadays this is less of a problem because they tune their fuels
more carefully and also process the exhaust smoke so if does not carry as much
bad stuff, but this makes all the deal all the less efficient.
There is a coal power plant not far from here, and they are always testing the
environment for pollutants generated by it, and they always find them. While the argument can be made that remote power generation is more efficient than letting everybody use an internal combustion engine, results are not thrilling
either.
David Higton wrote:
Diesel
carbon monoxide
Alright, that suffices. The rest of your post is obviously not worth
looking at. There may well be subjects, you do know something about.
"Deloptes" <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote
| True true - Tesla becomes green after >200000km if all goes well and you
do
| not replace the battery after 5y. Until then the best is diesel fuel - the | one they want to ban, because it's engine is most efficient and green.
| I was shocked - there were studies - big studies - "they" refused to make
| public. Crazy!
|
I came across this report at one point:
https://theicct.org/publications/EV-battery-manufacturing-emissions
Not as shocking as you're indicating, but certainly
questioning the "greenness" of electric. Both the battery
manufacture and the source of electricity are factors.
On 20 Mar 2021 at 10:11:33 GMT, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
If the greens had their way, we would all be poisoned from the toxic by
products of burning pixie dust and unicorn farts
Never mind a unicorn farting, how does a pushme-pullyou fart? Eh? Eh?
If the greens had their way, we would all be poisoned from the toxic by products of burning pixie dust and unicorn farts
Don't laugh, I have had this last one happen.
Electric propulsion totally avoids the problems.Locally.
Richard Falken wrote:
Don't laugh, I have had this last one happen.
Were the secrets visble on the outside? Rare.
--
/»\ No | Dipl.-Ing. F. Axel Berger Tel: +49/ 221/ 7771 8067
\ / HTML | Roald-Amundsen-Stra▀e 2a Fax: +49/ 221/ 7771 8069
áX in | D-50829 K÷ln-Ossendorf http://berger-odenthal.de
/ \ Mail | -- No unannounced, large, binary attachments, please! --
It is not.
And one mechanism and one only has been shown to be effective to curb
this level of corruption, and that is the ballot box.
Once that is corrupted, and people become 'cancelled' and 'deplorable'
then you are truly lost
In article <s32cdj$k1e$2@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
It is not.
And one mechanism and one only has been shown to be effective to curb
this level of corruption, and that is the ballot box.
Once that is corrupted, and people become 'cancelled' and 'deplorable'
then you are truly lost
The 2020 "election" put paid to the idea that the ballot box would curb corruption. Fortunately, it's only one of the four boxes of liberty, and at least one of those other boxes remains unexplored as of the present.
On 2021-03-25, Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
False. you whackos tried the last box on 6 Jan.
On 2021-03-25, Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
In article <s32cdj$k1e$2@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
It is not.
And one mechanism and one only has been shown to be effective to curb
this level of corruption, and that is the ballot box.
Once that is corrupted, and people become 'cancelled' and 'deplorable'
then you are truly lost
I realise that America was founded on the right to oppress ones
neighbours, but since then it has gained a constitution that mostly
forbids that sort of thing.
On 25 Mar 2021 at 21:00:17 GMT, Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2021-03-25, Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
In article <s32cdj$k1e$2@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
It is not.
And one mechanism and one only has been shown to be effective to curb
this level of corruption, and that is the ballot box.
Once that is corrupted, and people become 'cancelled' and 'deplorable' >>>> then you are truly lost
I realise that America was founded on the right to oppress ones
neighbours, but since then it has gained a constitution that mostly
forbids that sort of thing.
It gained a constitution that is hard to change and then even harder to >unchange when the changers turn out to be loonies. Such as Prohibition.
The US is too big a country to govern properly (50 or so million is about >right). The US, Russia, China, and India should all be broken down into their >constituent states.
If Biden gets even half his taxation wishes, the entire USA won't
even be able to afford a Pi.
On 26/03/2021 04:51, 6+Cola wrote:
However the USA was founded on the idea of NOT "oppressing"Indeed. a war was fought by the right to be oppressed by Amercans rather
your neighbors. The "Just Leave Me The Fuck Alone" principle is,
or was, very important.
than forein kings..
BTW ... what does this have to do with Raspberry Pi's ???????Ah...
If Biden gets even half his taxation wishes, the entire USA won't
even be able to afford a Pi.
Biden was only there as the most accepatable puppet to face up the election.
Biden will do exactly what he is told, and when he isn't capable of that
Ms Harris will step up to the plate and sell the corporate designed
emotional narrative of bleeding heart Liberalism to Joe Public to
justify even further the transfer of money from the middle classes to
the oligarchy.
Trump may have been the total arsehole everyone claimed, but he wasn't *entirely* bought and paid for.
However the USA was founded on the idea of NOT "oppressing"
your neighbors. The "Just Leave Me The Fuck Alone" principle is,
or was, very important.
BTW ... what does this have to do with Raspberry Pi's ???????
If Biden gets even half his taxation wishes, the entire USA won't
even be able to afford a Pi.
On 25 Mar 2021 at 21:00:17 GMT, Jasen Betts
<usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
I realise that America was founded on the right to oppress ones
neighbours, but since then it has gained a constitution that mostly
forbids that sort of thing.
It gained a constitution that is hard to change and then even harder
to unchange when the changers turn out to be loonies. Such as
Prohibition.
The US is too big a country to govern properly (50 or so million is
about right). The US, Russia, China, and India should all be broken
down into their constituent states.
On 26 Mar 2021 at 09:51:07 GMT, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 26/03/2021 04:51, 6+Cola wrote:
However the USA was founded on the idea of NOT "oppressing"Indeed. a war was fought by the right to be oppressed by Amercans rather
your neighbors. The "Just Leave Me The Fuck Alone" principle is,
or was, very important.
than forein kings..
BTW ... what does this have to do with Raspberry Pi's ???????Ah...
If Biden gets even half his taxation wishes, the entire USA won't
even be able to afford a Pi.
Biden was only there as the most accepatable puppet to face up the election. >>
Biden will do exactly what he is told, and when he isn't capable of that
Ms Harris will step up to the plate and sell the corporate designed
emotional narrative of bleeding heart Liberalism to Joe Public to
justify even further the transfer of money from the middle classes to
the oligarchy.
Trump may have been the total arsehole everyone claimed, but he wasn't
*entirely* bought and paid for.
Trouble is he is dim. But you're right about Harris. AISB, The US political parties are fucked and have forgotten how to offer plausible candidates. Willie Clinton was prolly the last dem one, and Bush the Elder on the other side.
On 2021-03-25, Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
In article <s32cdj$k1e$2@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
It is not.
And one mechanism and one only has been shown to be effective to curb >>>this level of corruption, and that is the ballot box.
Once that is corrupted, and people become 'cancelled' and 'deplorable' >>>then you are truly lost
I realise that America was founded on the right to oppress ones
neighbours, but since then it has gained a constitution that mostly
forbids that sort of thing.
The 2020 "election" put paid to the idea that the ballot box would curb
corruption. Fortunately, it's only one of the four boxes of liberty, and at >> least one of those other boxes remains unexplored as of the present.
False. you whackos tried the last box on 6 Jan.
6+Cola wrote:
If Biden gets even half his taxation wishes, the entire USA won't
even be able to afford a Pi.
haha - USA will become Europe - man here they do not have the ability to >manufacture independently anything - the f**king vaccine, not even masks. >They have the machines, but not the materials, which they had to import,
but couldn't.
Europe is already a pathetic case - but hey there were 2 world wars carried >out here - and the third one, that is going on is an invisible one.
I wonder how USA will develop - at least you have right to own guns there.
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 07:56:39 +0100, Deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com>
wrote:
6+Cola wrote:
If Biden gets even half his taxation wishes, the entire USA won't
even be able to afford a Pi.
haha - USA will become Europe - man here they do not have the ability to
manufacture independently anything - the f**king vaccine, not even masks.
They have the machines, but not the materials, which they had to import,
but couldn't.
Europe is already a pathetic case - but hey there were 2 world wars carried >> out here - and the third one, that is going on is an invisible one.
I wonder how USA will develop - at least you have right to own guns there.
For now .... but the Citizen Disempowerment crusade
never ends.
But yes, with massive taxes - mostly going to "feel good/
look good" projects - and enhanced central "management"
of the economy from the top down, the USA could easily
take on the look and feel of the EU.
Maybe the Brits were the smart ones ....
Anyway, it is my hypothesis that the huge drive to
legalize marijuana (and in some cases all dope)
is part of the "socialist" plan. The idea is to knock
twenty+ IQ points and all motivation from the
Great Unwashed. It is the only way their sort of
USA could possibly persist. Stonies don't give
a shit. don't analyze too deeply. don't have the
focus or energy to protest effectively. So, THIS
is our "Soylent Green(leaf)", the perfect way to
get the masses to pacify themselves.
On 27/03/2021 02:40, 6+Cola wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 07:56:39 +0100, Deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com>
wrote:
6+Cola wrote:For now .... but the Citizen Disempowerment crusade
If Biden gets even half his taxation wishes, the entire USA won't
even be able to afford a Pi.
haha - USA will become Europe - man here they do not have the ability to >>> manufacture independently anything - the f**king vaccine, not even masks. >>> They have the machines, but not the materials, which they had to import, >>> but couldn't.
Europe is already a pathetic case - but hey there were 2 world wars carried >>> out here - and the third one, that is going on is an invisible one.
I wonder how USA will develop - at least you have right to own guns there. >>
never ends.
But yes, with massive taxes - mostly going to "feel good/
look good" projects - and enhanced central "management"
of the economy from the top down, the USA could easily
take on the look and feel of the EU.
Maybe the Brits were the smart ones ....
I am a Brit, and I voted to leave the EU.
Why? Because I studied engineering, and system theory.
Large systems with centralised control, signal lag and no local feedback
are very slow to respond to events.
The USA is a federation. There are considerable flexibilities in each
states legislature. And it has the safety valve of democracy. Trump,
love him or hate him, was a *possibility* open to the people.
The European Union is not a federation - it is a top down imposition
that has declared itself immune to prosecution, and its aim is to
completely centralise all law and regulations under a bureaucracy that
is not elected, but appointed. The only elections are effectively show >elections - the European parliament has less power than the US senate.
Not only is it slow and centralised, but it has deliberately removed
feedback from the citizens.
I have no moral objection to this, my objection is pragmatic. It doesn't
work very well.
Brussels bureaucrats would have you travelling behind a dog team
stopping to pick up shit and put it in plastic bags for later 'safe'
disposal in the Arctic wastes of Lapland, as well as the orderly
suburbs of Berlin, simply because it makes for neat and tidy
centralised legislation.
The reaction of the EU to the Covid pandemic has shown this very
clearly. Despite desperate attempts to blame Britain, or to tell its
citizens that the British not-for-huge-pharma-profit vaccine doesn't
work, or kills you, the fact is that Britain is after Israel the second
most vaccinated country in the world, and the hospital admission rates
and death rates seem to be reflecting this.
We get so involved in the hype that we dont look at ;political system >rationally and understand them in terms of cost benefit analysis.
I did and voted accordingly.
Anything that persists becomes conservative.
Anyway, it is my hypothesis that the huge drive to
legalize marijuana (and in some cases all dope)
is part of the "socialist" plan. The idea is to knock
twenty+ IQ points and all motivation from the
Great Unwashed. It is the only way their sort of
USA could possibly persist. Stonies don't give
a shit. don't analyze too deeply. don't have the
focus or energy to protest effectively. So, THIS
is our "Soylent Green(leaf)", the perfect way to
get the masses to pacify themselves.
Moralities that suicide their own cultures, do not.
I see nothing wrong in people who might really have very little to offer >society and whom society has very little to offer in return, passing
their lives away in a haze of cannabis fumes.
If they decide to opt out, what in the end is wrong with that?
The major problem today is that the machine has taken nearly everyone's
job away.
There really is no need for most people to work at all - we have built a >world that will supply us with wealth without the need for 'labour' -
which totally invalidates Marx and his dialogue between 'labour' and >'capital'
Covid has further disconnected people from 'work'
Ecological concerns also place limits in the 'consumer' model of wealth >distribution where everybody rushes around selling each other shit that
they don't really need or want in order to justify a 'living wage' so
that they can then buy the stuff they actually do need.
Something will emerge that works. Provided we keep the theoretical >sociologists and Marxists from tampering. Actually the market works
pretty well. If left alone
Heaven preserve us from people who think they have (or say they have)
the answers to mankind's problems.
On 26/03/2021 10:17, TimS wrote:
On 26 Mar 2021 at 09:51:07 GMT, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>Yup. Its the 'iron law of oligarchy' in play. Unless you have a Trumpian >style populism underneath, *all* the viable political choices are bought >*years* before they even get to be candidates.
wrote:
On 26/03/2021 04:51, 6+Cola wrote:
However the USA was founded on the idea of NOT "oppressing"Indeed. a war was fought by the right to be oppressed by Amercans rather >>> than forein kings..
your neighbors. The "Just Leave Me The Fuck Alone" principle is,
or was, very important.
BTW ... what does this have to do with Raspberry Pi's ???????Ah...
If Biden gets even half his taxation wishes, the entire USA won't >>>> even be able to afford a Pi.
Biden was only there as the most accepatable puppet to face up the election.
Biden will do exactly what he is told, and when he isn't capable of that >>> Ms Harris will step up to the plate and sell the corporate designed
emotional narrative of bleeding heart Liberalism to Joe Public to
justify even further the transfer of money from the middle classes to
the oligarchy.
Trump may have been the total arsehole everyone claimed, but he wasn't
*entirely* bought and paid for.
Trouble is he is dim. But you're right about Harris. AISB, The US political >> parties are fucked and have forgotten how to offer plausible candidates.
Willie Clinton was prolly the last dem one, and Bush the Elder on the other >> side.
In the UK, George Galloway described the two main parties as 'two cheeks
of the same arse'
Or as someone else said - 'It doesn't matter who you vote for, the
government always gets in'.
In article <s3itl1$s57$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org>,
Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2021-03-25, Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
The 2020 "election" put paid to the idea that the ballot box would
curb corruption. Fortunately, it's only one of the four boxes of
liberty, and at least one of those other boxes remains unexplored
as of the present.
False. you whackos tried the last box on 6 Jan.
O RLY? How is it, then, that the only gun anyone can find was in the
hands of that cop who murdered a peaceful protester?
On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 03:51:52 +0000, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 27/03/2021 02:40, 6+Cola wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 07:56:39 +0100, Deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com>
wrote:
6+Cola wrote:
If Biden gets even half his taxation wishes, the entire USA won't
even be able to afford a Pi.
haha - USA will become Europe - man here they do not have the ability to >>>> manufacture independently anything - the f**king vaccine, not even masks. >>>> They have the machines, but not the materials, which they had to import, >>>> but couldn't.
Europe is already a pathetic case - but hey there were 2 world wars carried
out here - and the third one, that is going on is an invisible one.
I wonder how USA will develop - at least you have right to own guns there.
For now .... but the Citizen Disempowerment crusade
never ends.
But yes, with massive taxes - mostly going to "feel good/
look good" projects - and enhanced central "management"
of the economy from the top down, the USA could easily
take on the look and feel of the EU.
Maybe the Brits were the smart ones ....
I am a Brit, and I voted to leave the EU.
Why? Because I studied engineering, and system theory.
Large systems with centralised control, signal lag and no local feedback
are very slow to respond to events.
Ah, someone after my own heart :-)
The USA system is also extremely robust, in that ideal model
anyway. It is very "fractal", self-similar control structures
from top to bottom, federal to the local garden club.
Except that too-small control structures lead to local tyrannies. In the UK we
have about 50 police departments, for 65 million people. The US has more than 15000. And the US elects judges and chiefs of police, so sometimes people don't get justice, they get law and plenty of it. It's noticeable that road signage in the UK is designed to get people safely from A to B,
US it's designed to raise revenue.
And then there are quotas - conspiracies
betwen a city Mayor and the Chief of Police to fill the City's coffers; this is just a form of legalised banditry.
On 27/03/2021 09:14, TimS wrote:
Except that too-small control structures lead to local tyrannies. In the UK we
have about 50 police departments, for 65 million people. The US has more than
15000. And the US elects judges and chiefs of police, so sometimes people >> don't get justice, they get law and plenty of it. It's noticeable that road >> signage in the UK is designed to get people safely from A to B,
Not since the 1960s.
whereas in the
US it's designed to raise revenue.
As it is here largely. Or break cars.
And then there are quotas - conspiraciesIts the same here. Parking schemes employ wardens whose wages are paid
betwen a city Mayor and the Chief of Police to fill the City's coffers; this
is just a form of legalised banditry.
out of the fines. Car parks are a monopoly that is 'revenue neutral' as
a minimum. The cost of installing the machines is paid for by the
parking charges, The same goes for speed cameras.
3. A gallows was erected by the protesters with the intent on lynching
both Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi. In one of the videos shot by an
undercover reporter who had infiltrated the mob, you can also see
and hear one of the protesters call for a guillotine.
Such poor peaceful protesters indeed: brainwashed bigots who couldn't
bear the thought that Orange Jesus had lost the elections.
I am not religious. If we are to be "preserved" we will have
to do it ourselves.
And NOBODY "has the answers" because humans are an
erratic, illogical, congnitive-dissonance-loving species. There
are eight billion notions about how things should be - and a
new eight billion tomorrow. Human societies are a sort of
perpetual kludge, BARELY working, but there's no other way.
Weirdly, even ancient societies with NO grasp of how the
universe worked STILL tended to persist, indeed often
became successful. That means something, but I'm not
sure what. Is a good collective lie more important than
The Truth ???
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:00:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 26/03/2021 10:17, TimS wrote:
On 26 Mar 2021 at 09:51:07 GMT, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>Yup. Its the 'iron law of oligarchy' in play. Unless you have a Trumpian
wrote:
On 26/03/2021 04:51, 6+Cola wrote:
However the USA was founded on the idea of NOT "oppressing"Indeed. a war was fought by the right to be oppressed by Amercans rather >>>> than forein kings..
your neighbors. The "Just Leave Me The Fuck Alone" principle is, >>>>> or was, very important.
BTW ... what does this have to do with Raspberry Pi's ???????Ah...
If Biden gets even half his taxation wishes, the entire USA won't >>>>> even be able to afford a Pi.
Biden was only there as the most accepatable puppet to face up the election.
Biden will do exactly what he is told, and when he isn't capable of that >>>> Ms Harris will step up to the plate and sell the corporate designed
emotional narrative of bleeding heart Liberalism to Joe Public to
justify even further the transfer of money from the middle classes to
the oligarchy.
Trump may have been the total arsehole everyone claimed, but he wasn't >>>> *entirely* bought and paid for.
Trouble is he is dim. But you're right about Harris. AISB, The US political >>> parties are fucked and have forgotten how to offer plausible candidates. >>> Willie Clinton was prolly the last dem one, and Bush the Elder on the other >>> side.
style populism underneath, *all* the viable political choices are bought
*years* before they even get to be candidates.
In the UK, George Galloway described the two main parties as 'two cheeks
of the same arse'
Or as someone else said - 'It doesn't matter who you vote for, the
government always gets in'.
Heh, heh ...... yes, tear off the little name-tags that say
Tory or Labour or Sensible Party, Dem or Republican,
and it just says "professional politician" underneath :-)
Same breed for the past 12,000 years or more.
I suspect some Great Civilizatons during the ice age
too ... done in by 'climate change' ... so 12,000 years
may be a very conservative estimate. People have
been people for nearly 300,000 years and who's to
say how the Neanderthals ran things.
Bureaucracy becomes a self justifying parasite, all for the best
possible reasons.
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation is that
those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact simply showing
a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the hunter gatherer. Before
farming, before herding even, a population of at best a few million
lived 'in harmony with nature' lacking even the idea of 'private
property' let alone the hierarchies and the discipline that are
necessary for large numbers of people to act in unison.
On 27 Mar 2021 at 10:40:05 GMT, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 27/03/2021 09:14, TimS wrote:
And then there are quotas - conspiracies betwen a cityIts the same here. Parking schemes employ wardens whose wages are paid
Mayor and the Chief of Police to fill the City's coffers;
this is just a form of legalised banditry.
out of the fines. Car parks are a monopoly that is 'revenue neutral'
as a minimum. The cost of installing the machines is paid for by the
parking charges, The same goes for speed cameras.
Not quite. At least here, speeding fines go to central government,
rather than the local authority. That removes the incentive for
local collusion.
Automobiles are
being run by software which will demand subscription fees,
so just like personal computers they will really be only
rented, not owned.
On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:29:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation is that >>> those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact simply showing >>> a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the hunter gatherer. Before
farming, before herding even, a population of at best a few million
lived 'in harmony with nature' lacking even the idea of 'private
property' let alone the hierarchies and the discipline that are
necessary for large numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that
are appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of
his fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property.
Housing prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the
very richest will be able to afford their own home;
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased from 50 to 65 million in the last 50 years.
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation is that
those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact simply showing
a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the hunter gatherer. Before
farming, before herding even, a population of at best a few million
lived 'in harmony with nature' lacking even the idea of 'private
property' let alone the hierarchies and the discipline that are
necessary for large numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that
are appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of
his fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property.
Housing prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the
very richest will be able to afford their own home;
On 27/03/2021 18:40, TimS wrote:
On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:29:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>House prices are climbing because of uber low interest rates
wrote:
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation is that >>>> those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact simply showing
a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the hunter gatherer. Before >>>> farming, before herding even, a population of at best a few million >>>> lived 'in harmony with nature' lacking even the idea of 'private
property' let alone the hierarchies and the discipline that are
necessary for large numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that
are appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of
his fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property.
Housing prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the
very richest will be able to afford their own home;
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased from 50 to
65 million in the last 50 years.
Put the base rate up to 15% and watch capital evaporate.
On 27/03/2021 18:40, TimS wrote:
On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:29:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
<cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation
is that those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact
simply showing a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the
hunter gatherer. Before farming, before herding even, a
population of at best a few million lived 'in harmony with
nature' lacking even the idea of 'private property' let alone the
hierarchies and the discipline that are necessary for large
numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that
are appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of
his fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property.
Housing prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the
very richest will be able to afford their own home;
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased
from 50 to 65 million in the last 50 years.
House prices are climbing because of uber low interest rates
Put the base rate up to 15% and watch capital evaporate.
On 2021-03-27, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:29:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation is that >>>> those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact simply showing >>>> a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the hunter gatherer. Before >>>> farming, before herding even, a population of at best a few million
lived 'in harmony with nature' lacking even the idea of 'private
property' let alone the hierarchies and the discipline that are
necessary for large numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that
are appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of
his fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property.
Housing prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the
very richest will be able to afford their own home;
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased from 50 to
65 million in the last 50 years.
Almost certainly because of highly restrictive housing construction
laws. Building 100000 additional houses a year should not be difficult, unless there is nowhere to build them.
I don't think I've ever rented a personal computer! Nor do I 'rent'
the software, I don't use any proprietary operating systems.
On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:29:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation is that >>> those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact simply showing >>> a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the hunter gatherer. Before
farming, before herding even, a population of at best a few million
lived 'in harmony with nature' lacking even the idea of 'private
property' let alone the hierarchies and the discipline that are
necessary for large numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that
are appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of
his fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property.
Housing prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the
very richest will be able to afford their own home;
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased from 50 to 65 million in the last 50 years.
On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 19:05:03 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 27/03/2021 18:40, TimS wrote:
On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:29:53 GMT, Charlie GibbsHouse prices are climbing because of uber low interest rates
<cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation
is that those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact
simply showing a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the
hunter gatherer. Before farming, before herding even, a
population of at best a few million lived 'in harmony with
nature' lacking even the idea of 'private property' let alone the
hierarchies and the discipline that are necessary for large
numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that
are appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of
his fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property.
Housing prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the
very richest will be able to afford their own home;
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased
from 50 to 65 million in the last 50 years.
Put the base rate up to 15% and watch capital evaporate.
Yes, but they climbed quite quickly before the current negligible
interest rate happened. I can recall paying around 15% on my mortgage, fortunately not for very long. House prices were rising quickly then.
It has also a lot to do with ever-larger multiples of salary being
lent, along with low deposits asked.
'If the bank is willing to lend me a million pounds, then why not take
it? A million-pound house will be worth two million in ten years' time'.
Chicken and egg. If the builders were not certain that prices would
keep rising indefinitely, they wouldn't sit on land, they'd build now.
On 27 Mar 2021 at 21:28:52 GMT, William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
On 2021-03-27, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:29:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> >>> wrote:
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation is that
those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact simply showing
a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the hunter gatherer. Before >>>>> farming, before herding even, a population of at best a few million >>>>> lived 'in harmony with nature' lacking even the idea of 'private
property' let alone the hierarchies and the discipline that are
necessary for large numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that
are appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of
his fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property.
Housing prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the
very richest will be able to afford their own home;
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased from 50 to
65 million in the last 50 years.
Almost certainly because of highly restrictive housing construction
laws. Building 100000 additional houses a year should not be difficult,
unless there is nowhere to build them.
Which is largely the case.
On 2021-03-27, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:29:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation is that >>>> those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact simply showing >>>> a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the hunter gatherer. Before >>>> farming, before herding even, a population of at best a few million
lived 'in harmony with nature' lacking even the idea of 'private
property' let alone the hierarchies and the discipline that are
necessary for large numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that
are appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of
his fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property.
Housing prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the
very richest will be able to afford their own home;
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased from 50 to >> 65 million in the last 50 years.
Almost certainly because of highly restrictive housing construction
laws.
Building 100000 additional houses a year should not be difficult,
unless there is nowhere to build them.
various land spaces, inability to build highrises, etc), whileIn the end its a compound problem of too many people for the country to
greenways, agricultural conversion laws, etc certainly have their good points, they also come at a cost of high house prices, and inability to
house the extra population. Note that this is NOT because of lawas
against private property. It may be cause of laws in favour of private property-- do not do anything to decrease the value of property.
On 27/03/2021 18:40, TimS wrote:
On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:29:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>House prices are climbing because of uber low interest rates
wrote:
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation
is that those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in
fact simply showing a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the
hunter gatherer. Before farming, before herding even, a
population of at best a few million lived 'in harmony with
nature' lacking even the idea of 'private property' let alone
the hierarchies and the discipline that are necessary for large
numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that are
appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of his
fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property. Housing
prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the very richest
will be able to afford their own home;
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased
from 50 to 65 million in the last 50 years.
Put the base rate up to 15% and watch capital evaporate.
On 27 Mar 2021 at 21:28:52 GMT, William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
On 2021-03-27, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:29:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> >>> wrote:
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation is that >>>>> those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact simply showing
a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the hunter gatherer. Before >>>>> farming, before herding even, a population of at best a few million >>>>> lived 'in harmony with nature' lacking even the idea of 'private
property' let alone the hierarchies and the discipline that are
necessary for large numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that
are appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of
his fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property.
Housing prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the
very richest will be able to afford their own home;
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased from 50 to
65 million in the last 50 years.
Almost certainly because of highly restrictive housing construction
laws. Building 100000 additional houses a year should not be difficult,
unless there is nowhere to build them.
Which is largely the case.
On 27/03/2021 05:17, 6+Cola wrote:
I am not religious. If we are to be "preserved" we will have
to do it ourselves.
And NOBODY "has the answers" because humans are an
erratic, illogical, congnitive-dissonance-loving species. There
are eight billion notions about how things should be - and a
new eight billion tomorrow. Human societies are a sort of
perpetual kludge, BARELY working, but there's no other way.
People misquote the corollary of Darwin's evolutionary notion. It is
less the survival of the fittest than the elimination of the bottom
useless one percent.
From Nature's perspective, nothing matters except that the species
stumbles through childhood and puberty, and makes it into the bushes for
the crudest form of sex imaginable.
Weirdly, even ancient societies with NO grasp of how the
universe worked STILL tended to persist, indeed often
became successful. That means something, but I'm not
sure what. Is a good collective lie more important than
The Truth ???
Very much so. Given that the above criteria are all that matters, a big
all powerful sky fairy with awesome powers who wrote a book of moral >behaviour oddly suited to the cohesion of large societies in an emerging >agrarian age, was bound to get to be wise rulers' favourite state religion.
That it has collapsed in a post industrial one, is not surprising.
Your comments on 'political math' too are cogent: in an age of universal >franchise and the equivalence of voters, to leave actual rulership to
the whim of '?? ??????' is simply unthinkable for any emergent oligarchy.
The natural tendency of such an oligarchy is to control all aspects of
public communication that it can, to first of all suppress any idea that
the system that allows them to exist at all, needs modification.
Instead the invention of a Punch and Judy show, where you are restricted
to voting for Punch (Donald Trump) or Judy (Hilary Clinton) and every >utterance is backed up by cynical market research to see which
particular utterance has public traction, so that they can build an
emotional and political narrative of 'nationalism,' or 'liberalism' to >disguise what is really going on - the usurpation of all powers by the >oligarchy itself, not for the purposes of governing the nation, but to >preserve the current ruling oligarchy. And pay off the very few members
of society it actually needs - and as I pointed out, with mechanisation,
only the technocrats are useful.
Liberalism is an adapted Marxist creed that appeals to the educated >technocratic middle class, as it panders to their fondness for feeling >intellectually superior and their emotional emptiness resulting from a
lack of religion. So Moral Causes have great political traction.
Which is why it has abandoned the blue collar worker to the dustbin of >history and is engaged in destroying all opposition to what was once
known colloquially as 'the Man' ..
It doesn't matter who you vote for, the Government always wins...because
they are the ones with their fingers up the bottoms of Punch, as well as >Judy.
Without an external existential crisis like the Cold war or WWII there
is nothing for Government to do. Except feather its nest and ensure its
own existence.
Darwin rules, even in an oligarchy.
The internet must be controlled for 'all the right reason' - can't have >people talking about anything other than the faux issues of social
justice, climate change, and gender politics - that are used to create
an *impression* of lively democratic debate by 'informed' people on
'serious issues'.
British parliament spent ten times as much time debating the morality of
fox hunting, than it did debating on whether or not to enter the Iraq
war, based on forged documentation.
Go figure.
On 2021-03-27, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
On 27 Mar 2021 at 21:28:52 GMT, William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
On 2021-03-27, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:29:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> >>>> wrote:
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation is that
those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact simply showing
a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the hunter gatherer. Before >>>>>> farming, before herding even, a population of at best a few million >>>>>> lived 'in harmony with nature' lacking even the idea of 'private >>>>>> property' let alone the hierarchies and the discipline that are >>>>>> necessary for large numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that
are appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of
his fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property.
Housing prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the
very richest will be able to afford their own home;
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased from 50 to
65 million in the last 50 years.
Almost certainly because of highly restrictive housing construction
laws. Building 100000 additional houses a year should not be difficult,
unless there is nowhere to build them.
Which is largely the case.
But there is lots of land available, and lots of already built land that could have 2 3 4 ... story housing on it. The UK is not out of land. UK
has half the population density of Holland England about the same as
Holland and 1/25 of Hong Kong
(although I would not push it that far).
I you want housing in London, yes, it is expensive. If you want it inNewcastle, not so much so. Although even in London they are a lot less
than in Vancouver Can.
the HRCC managed to crush the New Science, where would
we be now ? Likely alive, perhaps even "doing well", but "well"
would involve a lot of treading manure into our stick-farming
plots, not going to the moon or buying Raspberry Pi's. China's
I you want housing in London, yes, it is expensive. If you want it
in Newcastle, not so much so. Although even in London they are a lot
less than in Vancouver Can.
Ultimately what the 'housing crisis' boils down to is too many people
with too high aspirations for the avaialable land area and
infrastructure. Birth rates are falling but that has simple encouraged
people to permit massive 3rd world immigration that carries with a it a
high birth rate, so as to keep population levels up and the engine of consumerism running.
Remember that modern post war economics is built on a Ponzi scheme of
public debt. Today's pensions are paid by te contributions of today's workers, which works as long as there are ore workers earning that pensioners.
If the number of workers and the whole population falls, you end up with
a massive geriatric problem - how to finance a non working population of retired people.
In the end its a compound problem of too many people for the country
to support but an inability to square the economic circle without a permanently rising population.
On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:29:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation is that >>> those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact simply showing >>> a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the hunter gatherer. Before
farming, before herding even, a population of at best a few million
lived 'in harmony with nature' lacking even the idea of 'private
property' let alone the hierarchies and the discipline that are
necessary for large numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that
are appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of
his fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property.
Housing prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the
very richest will be able to afford their own home;
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased from 50 to 65 million in the last 50 years.
On 2021-03-28, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Ultimately what the 'housing crisis' boils down to is too many people
with too high aspirations for the avaialable land area and
infrastructure. Birth rates are falling but that has simple encouraged
people to permit massive 3rd world immigration that carries with a it a
high birth rate, so as to keep population levels up and the engine of
consumerism running.
People who follow this philosophy have a lot in common with UFOlogists.
The flying saucer people believe we will be saved by aliens from another planet, while immigration advocates believe we will be saved by aliens
from another country. Either way, it avoids having to solve our
problems ourselves.
Remember that modern post war economics is built on a Ponzi scheme of
public debt. Today's pensions are paid by te contributions of today's
workers, which works as long as there are ore workers earning that
pensioners.
If the number of workers and the whole population falls, you end up with
a massive geriatric problem - how to finance a non working population of
retired people.
Thus we depend on an ever-increasing population, which is a Ponzi scheme itself.
In the end its a compound problem of too many people for the country
to support but an inability to square the economic circle without a
permanently rising population.
We'd better find a way to transition to a steady-state economy.
I'm not holding my breath, though - too many powerful people
are benefiting too much from the status quo.
On 2021-03-27, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
On 27 Mar 2021 at 17:29:53 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
On 2021-03-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Its rather a study of mine, actually. My tentative observation is that >>>> those who advocate the purest form of Marxism are in fact simply showing >>>> a romantic fondness for the lifestyle of the hunter gatherer. Before
farming, before herding even, a population of at best a few million
lived 'in harmony with nature' lacking even the idea of 'private
property' let alone the hierarchies and the discipline that are
necessary for large numbers of people to act in unison.
This makes it particularly ironic that many societies that
are appalled by Karl Marx's philosophy are adopting one of
his fundamental tenets: the elimination of private property.
Housing prices are climbing so fast that soon none but the
very richest will be able to afford their own home;
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased from 50 to >> 65 million in the last 50 years.
That's a pretty minor increase compared to the rest of the world.
Until recently global population has been doubling every 40 years.
Now that it's starting to slow, the ruling classes are having
fits. Politicians want a bigger tax base, and corporations
want more consumers. If they manage to get things back on
track, there will be one person for every square meter of
dry land in 600 years, and in 1800 years the entire planet
will be converted into a mass of people swarming over each
other like bees.
Do the math. Most people don't understand exponentials.
On 2021-03-28, William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
I you want housing in London, yes, it is expensive. If you want it
in Newcastle, not so much so. Although even in London they are a lot
less than in Vancouver Can.
Living in the Vancouver area, I can vouch for this.
One problem is that housing is now seen primarily as an investment.
The fact that you can live in it is incidental.
On 2021-03-27, TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
In teh UK it's driven by population pressure, which has increased from 50 to >> 65 million in the last 50 years.
That's a pretty minor increase compared to the rest of the world.
Until recently global population has been doubling every 40 years.
Now that it's starting to slow, the ruling classes are having
fits. Politicians want a bigger tax base, and corporations
want more consumers. If they manage to get things back on
track, there will be one person for every square meter of
dry land in 600 years, and in 1800 years the entire planet
will be converted into a mass of people swarming over each
other like bees.
Do the math. Most people don't understand exponentials.
Do the math. Most people don't understand exponentials.
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
On 2021-03-28, William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
I you want housing in London, yes, it is expensive. If you want it
in Newcastle, not so much so. Although even in London they are a lot
less than in Vancouver Can.
Living in the Vancouver area, I can vouch for this.
One problem is that housing is now seen primarily as an investment.
The fact that you can live in it is incidental.
This same issue has driven up the housing market in NYC. Lots of
expensive apartments lying idle, whose owners visit only once every
year or two.
On top of this, Vancouver has the issue that half of Hong Kong (the
half with the higher incomes for the most part) has moved there.
So you get added population pressure and an interesting income distribution as a result.
--scott
Fortunately population growth curves are usually sigmoid not exponential - they resemble exponential curves very closely right up until some limit starts to bite and then they flatten very quickly.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
Fortunately population growth curves are usually sigmoid not exponential - they resemble exponential curves very closely right up
until some limit starts to bite and then they flatten very quickly.
True. But when that point is reached and you live cramped up against a
fixed limit things tend become rather uncomfortable.
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 21:52:22 +0200
Axel Berger <Spam@Berger-Odenthal.De> wrote:
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
Fortunately population growth curves are usually sigmoid not
exponential - they resemble exponential curves very closely right up
until some limit starts to bite and then they flatten very quickly.
True. But when that point is reached and you live cramped up against a
fixed limit things tend become rather uncomfortable.
Yep but not as uncomfortable as one per square metre. That being
said it's not at all clear that the curve flattens because the limits are actually reached, after all the fall in growth in first world countries started to be noticeable by the early 1980s (I recall billboards in France that read (translated) "France Needs Babies" some time in 1980/81). So something starts the downward curve well before real limits are hit (France was far from the most crowded or stressed country at the time).
Still with around ten billion of us expected at peak I expect it
will get a little tight in places.
On 27 Mar 2021 at 05:17:24 GMT, 6+Cola <6+@mr272x.org> wrote:
On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 03:51:52 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 27/03/2021 02:40, 6+Cola wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 07:56:39 +0100, Deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com>
wrote:
6+Cola wrote:
If Biden gets even half his taxation wishes, the entire USA won't >>>>>> even be able to afford a Pi.
haha - USA will become Europe - man here they do not have the ability to >>>>> manufacture independently anything - the f**king vaccine, not even masks.
They have the machines, but not the materials, which they had to import, >>>>> but couldn't.
Europe is already a pathetic case - but hey there were 2 world wars carried
out here - and the third one, that is going on is an invisible one. >>>>> I wonder how USA will develop - at least you have right to own guns there.
For now .... but the Citizen Disempowerment crusade
never ends.
But yes, with massive taxes - mostly going to "feel good/
look good" projects - and enhanced central "management"
of the economy from the top down, the USA could easily
take on the look and feel of the EU.
Maybe the Brits were the smart ones ....
I am a Brit, and I voted to leave the EU.
Why? Because I studied engineering, and system theory.
Large systems with centralised control, signal lag and no local feedback >>> are very slow to respond to events.
Ah, someone after my own heart :-)
Excellent analysis by TNP as usual.
The USA system is also extremely robust, in that ideal model
anyway. It is very "fractal", self-similar control structures
from top to bottom, federal to the local garden club.
Except that too-small control structures lead to local tyrannies. In the UK we >have about 50 police departments, for 65 million people. The US has more than >15000. And the US elects judges and chiefs of police, so sometimes people >don't get justice, they get law and plenty of it. It's noticeable that road >signage in the UK is designed to get people safely from A to B, whereas in the >US it's designed to raise revenue. And then there are quotas - conspiracies >betwen a city Mayor and the Chief of Police to fill the City's coffers; this >is just a form of legalised banditry.
As for "banditry" ... are you referring to "speed trap towns"
or something ? For the most part, transit in the USA is
dead practical - has to be because of the vast distances.
I think there are single counties in Texas and Wyoming
and certainly Alaska that could swallow up Scotland.
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 21:52:22 +0200
Axel Berger <Spam@Berger-Odenthal.De> wrote:
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
Fortunately population growth curves are usually sigmoid not
exponential - they resemble exponential curves very closely right up
until some limit starts to bite and then they flatten very quickly.
True. But when that point is reached and you live cramped up against a
fixed limit things tend become rather uncomfortable.
Yep but not as uncomfortable as one per square metre. That being
said it's not at all clear that the curve flattens because the limits are actually reached, after all the fall in growth in first world countries started to be noticeable by the early 1980s (I recall billboards in France that read (translated) "France Needs Babies" some time in 1980/81). So something starts the downward curve well before real limits are hit (France was far from the most crowded or stressed country at the time).
Still with around ten billion of us expected at peak I expect it
will get a little tight in places.
On 29 Mar 2021 at 05:04:09 BST, 6+Cola <6+@mr272x.org> wrote:
As for "banditry" ... are you referring to "speed trap towns"
or something ? For the most part, transit in the USA is
dead practical - has to be because of the vast distances.
I think there are single counties in Texas and Wyoming
and certainly Alaska that could swallow up Scotland.
I lived in the US for 12 years, and amassed two speeding tickets in that time.
So I went to traffic school for a Saturday. Towards the end of one of these days, the person running the course (an off-duty San Francisco cop) asked if anyone had any questions. A little old lady said, is it true that there are quotas? The guy was quiet for a moment and then said, yes, but no one would ever admit it publicly. I didn't understand this, but eventually found out that what was meant was:
1) Mayor decides the city needs more money
2) He talks to his mate the Chief of Police (elected on the same political ticket)
3) The Chief tells the traffic cops that for the next shift or two they all need to book, say, three sitters and three movers (people parking wrong or committing a 'moving offence' - speeding or being in the wrong lane, etc)
So these would be minor infringements that would normally be overlooked because the cop would pragmatically decide that there was no danger to life, limb, property, etc. But now these people get a fine instead.
IOW, legalised banditry.
On 29/03/2021 00:17, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 21:52:22 +0200At the population density pandemics are not an if but a when...
Axel Berger <Spam@Berger-Odenthal.De> wrote:
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
Fortunately population growth curves are usually sigmoid not
exponential - they resemble exponential curves very closely right up
until some limit starts to bite and then they flatten very quickly.
True. But when that point is reached and you live cramped up against a
fixed limit things tend become rather uncomfortable.
Yep but not as uncomfortable as one per square metre. That being
said it's not at all clear that the curve flattens because the limits are
actually reached, after all the fall in growth in first world countries
started to be noticeable by the early 1980s (I recall billboards in
France
that read (translated) "France Needs Babies" some time in 1980/81). So
something starts the downward curve well before real limits are hit
(France
was far from the most crowded or stressed country at the time).
Still with around ten billion of us expected at peak I expect it
will get a little tight in places.
This is just a dry run
Democracy is how you overthrow it without bloodshed, and install a new__________^
one that costs a bit less and protects a bit better.
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
Automobiles are
being run by software which will demand subscription fees,
so just like personal computers they will really be only
rented, not owned.
I don't think I've ever rented a personal computer! Nor do I 'rent'
the software, I don't use any proprietary operating systems.
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:37:47 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Democracy is how you overthrow it without bloodshed, and install a new__________^
one that costs a bit less and protects a bit better.
hopefully
All too often the limited options available at election time make
this hope faint.
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:37:47 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Democracy is how you overthrow it without bloodshed, and install a new__________^
one that costs a bit less and protects a bit better.
hopefully
All too often the limited options available at election time make
this hope faint.
On 29/03/2021 11:24, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:37:47 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Democracy is how you overthrow it without bloodshed, and install a new__________^
one that costs a bit less and protects a bit better.
hopefully
All too often the limited options available at election time
make this hope faint.
Indeed. In the UK we had to create whole new party as none of the
existing ones were any different.
'two cheeks of the same arse' was not an inaccurate description
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:14:45 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 29/03/2021 11:24, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:37:47 +0100Indeed. In the UK we had to create whole new party as none of the
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Democracy is how you overthrow it without bloodshed, and install a new >>>> one that costs a bit less and protects a bit better.__________^
hopefully
All too often the limited options available at election time
make this hope faint.
existing ones were any different.
'two cheeks of the same arse' was not an inaccurate description
So people do you want the cheek with the fresh boil on it or the
cheek with the make up over the scars from the forgotten boils ?
On 29/03/2021 18:23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:14:45 +0100A lot of British people decided that what they wanted was to administer
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 29/03/2021 11:24, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:37:47 +0100Indeed. In the UK we had to create whole new party as none of the
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Democracy is how you overthrow it without bloodshed, and install a new >>>>> one that costs a bit less and protects a bit better.__________^
hopefully
All too often the limited options available at election time
make this hope faint.
existing ones were any different.
'two cheeks of the same arse' was not an inaccurate description
So people do you want the cheek with the fresh boil on it or the
cheek with the make up over the scars from the forgotten boils ?
a fucking great kick up the arse.
And they did
On 29 Mar 2021 at 18:41:23 BST, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
A lot of British people decided that what they wanted was to
administer a fucking great kick up the arse.
And they did
Yes, and I was one of them. After having some exposure to EU
bureaucrats, my initial enthusiasm for the project waned and was
replaced by opposition. This was in the early noughties.
That the EU is inept, rigid, and bureaucratic has merely been
confirmed by the vaccine shit-show.
See also Jonathon Sumption's (retired Supreme Court judge) review in
this week's Spectator.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 29/03/2021 00:17, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 21:52:22 +0200At the population density pandemics are not an if but a when...
Axel Berger <Spam@Berger-Odenthal.De> wrote:
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
Fortunately population growth curves are usually
sigmoid not exponential - they resemble exponential curves very
closely right up until some limit starts to bite and then they
flatten very quickly.
True. But when that point is reached and you live cramped up
against a fixed limit things tend become rather uncomfortable.
Yep but not as uncomfortable as one per square metre. That
being said it's not at all clear that the curve flattens because
the limits are actually reached, after all the fall in growth in
first world countries started to be noticeable by the early 1980s
(I recall billboards in France
that read (translated) "France Needs Babies" some time in
1980/81). So something starts the downward curve well before real
limits are hit (France
was far from the most crowded or stressed country at the time).
Still with around ten billion of us expected at peak I expect
it will get a little tight in places.
This is just a dry run
Hygiene practices make a big difference.
How much seasonal flu is in your area right now ?
I don't even need to look it up. It's zero.
On 29 Mar 2021 at 18:41:23 BST, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 29/03/2021 18:23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:14:45 +0100A lot of British people decided that what they wanted was to administer
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 29/03/2021 11:24, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:37:47 +0100Indeed. In the UK we had to create whole new party as none of the
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Democracy is how you overthrow it without bloodshed, and install a new >>>>>> one that costs a bit less and protects a bit better.__________^
hopefully
All too often the limited options available at election time >>>>> make this hope faint.
existing ones were any different.
'two cheeks of the same arse' was not an inaccurate description
So people do you want the cheek with the fresh boil on it or the
cheek with the make up over the scars from the forgotten boils ?
a fucking great kick up the arse.
And they did
Yes, and I was one of them. After having some exposure to EU bureaucrats, my initial enthusiasm for the project waned and was replaced by opposition. This was in the early noughties.
That the EU is inept, rigid, and bureaucratic has merely been confirmed by the
vaccine shit-show.
See also Jonathon Sumption's (retired Supreme Court judge) review in this week's Spectator.
Occam's Razor says that there is a simpler explanation than 'hygiene'.
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:17:23 +0100
Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
Occam's Razor says that there is a simpler explanation than 'hygiene'.
I'd guess cough etiquette[1] to be a major factor, along with the
huge upswing in effective hand cleansing.
[1] Just how long ago was the "coughs and sneezes spread diseases"
campaign ?
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:14:45 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 29/03/2021 11:24, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:37:47 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Democracy is how you overthrow it without bloodshed, and install a new >>>> one that costs a bit less and protects a bit better.__________^
hopefully
All too often the limited options available at election time
make this hope faint.
Indeed. In the UK we had to create whole new party as none of the
existing ones were any different.
'two cheeks of the same arse' was not an inaccurate description
So people do you want the cheek with the fresh boil on it or the
cheek with the make up over the scars from the forgotten boils ?
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:17:23 +0100
Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
Occam's Razor says that there is a simpler explanation than
'hygiene'.
I'd guess cough etiquette[1] to be a major factor, along with
the huge upswing in effective hand cleansing.
[1] Just how long ago was the "coughs and sneezes spread diseases"
campaign ?
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:46:04 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:17:23 +0100
Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
Occam's Razor says that there is a simpler explanation than
'hygiene'.
I'd guess cough etiquette[1] to be a major factor, along
with the huge upswing in effective hand cleansing.
[1] Just how long ago was the "coughs and sneezes spread diseases"
campaign ?
So why has flu been practically eliminated, but not Covid, which is a comparable respiratory disease caused by a virus of similar size?
Flu is ANOTHER SET OF CORONAVIRUSES,
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:46:04 +0100 Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:17:23 +0100 Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:So why has flu been practically eliminated, but not Covid,
Occam's Razor says that there is a simpler explanation than
'hygiene'.
I'd guess cough etiquette[1] to be a major factor, along with
the huge upswing in effective hand cleansing.
[1] Just how long ago was the "coughs and sneezes spread diseases"
campaign ?
which is a comparable respiratory disease caused by a virus of similar
size?
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 21:07:43 +0100, Joe wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:46:04 +0100 Ahem A Rivet's ShotNossir, flu is still a thing every winter, so not 'practically
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:17:23 +0100 Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:So why has flu been practically eliminated, but not Covid,
Occam's Razor says that there is a simpler explanation than
'hygiene'.
I'd guess cough etiquette[1] to be a major factor, along with
the huge upswing in effective hand cleansing.
[1] Just how long ago was the "coughs and sneezes spread diseases"
campaign ?
eliminated' despite having fairly effective flu vaccines. At a guess,
since it appears to have gotten less virulent since 1918, maybe its
simply considered to be less of an issue as its virulence decreases.
which is a comparable respiratory disease caused by a virus of similarWhats' size got to do with it? Flu is ANOTHER SET OF CORONAVIRUSES, but a considerably less lethal group than COVID-19.
size?
On 29.03.2021 at 20:39, Martin Gregorie scribbled:Rhino virus just means 'nasal virus'
Flu is ANOTHER SET OF CORONAVIRUSES,
Wrong. The influenza virus is NOT a coronavirus, and neither is the
common cold virus. They are all three different categories of viruses.
° The common cold is caused by a rhinovirus.
° The flu is caused by an influenza virus.
° Covid-19 is caused by the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus, the closest
relatives of which are the original SARS virus — now called
SARS-CoV-1 — and the MERS virus, both of which are also
coronaviruses.
On 29.03.2021 at 21:07, Joe scribbled:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:46:04 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:17:23 +0100
Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
Occam's Razor says that there is a simpler explanation than
'hygiene'.
I'd guess cough etiquette[1] to be a major factor, along
with the huge upswing in effective hand cleansing.
[1] Just how long ago was the "coughs and sneezes spread diseases"
campaign ?
So why has flu been practically eliminated, but not Covid, which is a
comparable respiratory disease caused by a virus of similar size?
Covid-19 is most definitely NOT a respiratory disease. If anything, it
is actually comparable to AIDS in that it attacks your immune system,
hijacks it, and then turns it against you.
Certain gene sequences of
the SARS-CoV-2 virus' RNA are actually also found in the HIV virus.
On 29.03.2021 at 21:07, Joe scribbled:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:46:04 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:17:23 +0100
Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
Occam's Razor says that there is a simpler explanation than
'hygiene'.
I'd guess cough etiquette[1] to be a major factor, along
with the huge upswing in effective hand cleansing.
[1] Just how long ago was the "coughs and sneezes spread diseases"
campaign ?
So why has flu been practically eliminated, but not Covid, which is a
comparable respiratory disease caused by a virus of similar size?
Covid-19 is most definitely NOT a respiratory disease.
If anything, it
is actually comparable to AIDS in that it attacks your immune system,
hijacks it, and then turns it against you. Certain gene sequences of
the SARS-CoV-2 virus' RNA are actually also found in the HIV virus.
I've already said it before but I guess it needs repeating: I have had
an education in (among other things) the medical field and biology;
AND
I have had Covid-19 twice — six months apart, almost down to the day.
I know what it did to my body, and the infection is only the start of
the misery. The respiratory problems — which in my case were present, albeit only mildly — are only a side-effect of the infection.
After your immune system has eventually defeated the virus, you're
still left with the damage the virus did to your body. Among other
things, it causes your blood vessels to leak, and it uses that very
same mechanism to break down and cross the blood-brain barrier, whereby
it causes neurological damage. This in turn will manifest in the form
of autoimmune disorders, headaches, insomnia, brain fog and a whole
host of other symptoms, albeit that the exact symptoms differ greatly
per individual.
The blood vessel leakage is also what causes the respiratory problems.
The virus unleashes a bradykinin storm in your body. Not only does the leakage cause fluid to enter your lungs, but the bradykinin also causes
a reaction with an acid that can absorb over 2'000 times its weight in
water and becomes a gel-like goo in the process. This causes the lungs
to fill up with the goo, with as a result that the oxygen you inhale
cannot reach your bloodstream anymore.
However, this specific effect also appears to be tied to genetic
factors, such as one's blood group and the amount of — believe it or
not — Neanderthal DNA one possesses. People with blood groups O and B
are least affected in the respiratory department, while people with
blood groups A and AB are most affected in that regard. Likewise, more Neanderthal DNA means that the effects of the disease will be more
severe.
Furthermore, apparently the SARS-CoV-2 virus doesn't get along well
with either the influenza virus or the rhinovirus that causes the common cold, according to a recent study. Having the common cold or the flu —
and most likely also your immune system's reaction to that — appears to form a kind of protection against Covid-19, and vice versa.
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 21:07:43 +0100, Joe wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:46:04 +0100 Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:17:23 +0100 Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:So why has flu been practically eliminated, but not Covid,
Occam's Razor says that there is a simpler explanation than
'hygiene'.
I'd guess cough etiquette[1] to be a major factor, along
with the huge upswing in effective hand cleansing.
[1] Just how long ago was the "coughs and sneezes spread diseases"
campaign ?
Nossir, flu is still a thing every winter,
so not 'practically
eliminated' despite having fairly effective flu vaccines. At a guess,
since it appears to have gotten less virulent since 1918, maybe its
simply considered to be less of an issue as its virulence decreases.
which is a comparable respiratory disease caused by a virus of
similar size?
Whats' size got to do with it? Flu is ANOTHER SET OF CORONAVIRUSES,
but a considerably less lethal group than COVID-19.
Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
Certain gene sequences of the SARS-CoV-2 virus' RNA are actually also
found in the HIV virus.
What's so surprising about that? All viruses do similar things so
certain sequences are bound to be found in many viruses.
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> writes:
Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
Certain gene sequences of the SARS-CoV-2 virus' RNA are actually also
found in the HIV virus.
What's so surprising about that? All viruses do similar things so
certain sequences are bound to be found in many viruses.
A moment with Google reveals that it’s a conspiracy theory, held
primarily by people who believe SARS-Cov-2 is synthetic.
The genomes of both viruses are available online, so anyone who wants to believes it should be able to point directly to the supposed identical sequences.
And yet you didnt know that the common cold is a coronavirus
Wrong. The influenza virus is NOT a coronavirus, and neither is the
common cold virus. They are all three different categories of viruses.
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:46:04 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:17:23 +0100
Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
Occam's Razor says that there is a simpler explanation than
'hygiene'.
I'd guess cough etiquette[1] to be a major factor, along with
the huge upswing in effective hand cleansing.
[1] Just how long ago was the "coughs and sneezes spread diseases"
campaign ?
So why has flu been practically eliminated, but not Covid, which is a comparable respiratory disease caused by a virus of similar size?
On 29 Mar 2021 at 21:54:26 BST, Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
On 29.03.2021 at 21:07, Joe scribbled:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:46:04 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:17:23 +0100
Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
Occam's Razor says that there is a simpler explanation than
'hygiene'.
I'd guess cough etiquette[1] to be a major factor, along
with the huge upswing in effective hand cleansing.
[1] Just how long ago was the "coughs and sneezes spread
diseases" campaign ?
So why has flu been practically eliminated, but not Covid, which
is a comparable respiratory disease caused by a virus of similar
size?
Covid-19 is most definitely NOT a respiratory disease. If
anything, it is actually comparable to AIDS in that it attacks your
immune system, hijacks it, and then turns it against you.
What's your evidence for this statement?
Certain gene sequences of the SARS-CoV-2 virus' RNA are actually
also found in the HIV virus.
What's so surprising about that? All viruses do similar things so
certain sequences are bound to be found in many viruses.
On 29 Mar 2021 at 22:34:43 BST, Richard Kettlewell
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> writes:
Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
Certain gene sequences of the SARS-CoV-2 virus' RNA are actually
also found in the HIV virus.
What's so surprising about that? All viruses do similar things so
certain sequences are bound to be found in many viruses.
A moment with Google reveals that it’s a conspiracy theory, held primarily by people who believe SARS-Cov-2 is synthetic.
The genomes of both viruses are available online, so anyone who
wants to believes it should be able to point directly to the
supposed identical sequences.
Then we await the tosspot's "evidence" with interest.
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 23:00:27 +0200, Aragorn wrote:
Wrong. The influenza virus is NOT a coronavirus, and neither is theFair enough - I stand corrected.
common cold virus. They are all three different categories of
viruses.
Nonetheless Wikipedia (yeah, I know, teaat with extreme caution
though IME and in my fields (Chemistry, IT, flight) its generally
accurate due to some peer review. It says:
"Coronaviruses are a group of related RNA viruses that cause diseases
in mammals and birds. In humans and birds, they cause respiratory
tract infections that can range from mild to lethal. Mild illnesses
in humans include some cases of the common cold (which is also caused
by other viruses, predominantly rhinoviruses), while more lethal
varieties can cause SARS, MERS, and COVID-19. In cows and pigs they
cause diarrhea, while in mice they cause hepatitis and
encephalomyelitis."
Is that entirely wrong?
There aren't many viruses around that have those particular
HIV-like RNA sequences I'm talking about.
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> writes:
Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
Certain gene sequences of the SARS-CoV-2 virus' RNA are actually also
found in the HIV virus.
What's so surprising about that? All viruses do similar things so
certain sequences are bound to be found in many viruses.
A moment with Google reveals that it’s a conspiracy theory, held
primarily by people who believe SARS-Cov-2 is synthetic.
The genomes of both viruses are available online, so anyone who wants to believes it should be able to point directly to the supposed identical sequences.
On 29 Mar 2021 at 22:34:43 BST, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> writes:
Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
Certain gene sequences of the SARS-CoV-2 virus' RNA are actually also >>>> found in the HIV virus.
What's so surprising about that? All viruses do similar things so
certain sequences are bound to be found in many viruses.
A moment with Google reveals that it’s a conspiracy theory, held
primarily by people who believe SARS-Cov-2 is synthetic.
The genomes of both viruses are available online, so anyone who wants to
believes it should be able to point directly to the supposed identical
sequences.
Then we await the tosspot's "evidence" with interest.
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 23:00:27 +0200, Aragorn wrote:
Wrong. The influenza virus is NOT a coronavirus, and neither is theFair enough - I stand corrected.
common cold virus. They are all three different categories of viruses.
Nonetheless Wikipedia (yeah, I know, teaat with extreme caution though IME and in my fields (Chemistry, IT, flight) its generally accurate due to
some peer review. It says:
"Coronaviruses are a group of related RNA viruses that cause diseases in mammals and birds. In humans and birds, they cause respiratory tract infections that can range from mild to lethal. Mild illnesses in humans include some cases of the common cold (which is also caused by other
viruses, predominantly rhinoviruses), while more lethal varieties can
cause SARS, MERS, and COVID-19. In cows and pigs they cause diarrhea,
while in mice they cause hepatitis and encephalomyelitis."
Is that entirely wrong?
On 29/03/2021 22:34, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> writes:I believe we humans share many sequences with the E. Coli bacteria. Desperately scrabbling for my tinfoil hat, this is clearly irrefutable evidence of supernatural Malevolent Design.
Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
Certain gene sequences of the SARS-CoV-2 virus' RNA are actually also >>>> found in the HIV virus.
What's so surprising about that? All viruses do similar things so
certain sequences are bound to be found in many viruses.
A moment with Google reveals that it’s a conspiracy theory, held
primarily by people who believe SARS-Cov-2 is synthetic.
The genomes of both viruses are available online, so anyone who wants to
believes it should be able to point directly to the supposed identical
sequences.
On 29.03.2021 at 21:17, TimS scribbled:
On 29 Mar 2021 at 21:54:26 BST, Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
On 29.03.2021 at 21:07, Joe scribbled:
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:46:04 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:17:23 +0100
> Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
>
> > Occam's Razor says that there is a simpler explanation than
> > 'hygiene'.
>
> I'd guess cough etiquette[1] to be a major factor, along
> with the huge upswing in effective hand cleansing.
>
> [1] Just how long ago was the "coughs and sneezes spread
> diseases" campaign ?
>
So why has flu been practically eliminated, but not Covid, which
is a comparable respiratory disease caused by a virus of similar
size?
Covid-19 is most definitely NOT a respiratory disease. If
anything, it is actually comparable to AIDS in that it attacks your
immune system, hijacks it, and then turns it against you.
What's your evidence for this statement?
Scientific research — which is just as available to you as it is to me
— and the fact that I've had Covid-19 twice. I know perfectly well
what it did to my body. I'm still having to deal with some of the consequences right now as we speak, and my last infection was six
months ago.
Certain gene sequences of the SARS-CoV-2 virus' RNA are actually
also found in the HIV virus.
What's so surprising about that? All viruses do similar things so
certain sequences are bound to be found in many viruses.
There aren't many viruses around that have those particular
HIV-like RNA sequences I'm talking about.
On 30 Mar 2021 at 13:18:21 BST, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 29/03/2021 22:34, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> writes:I believe we humans share many sequences with the E. Coli bacteria.
Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
Certain gene sequences of the SARS-CoV-2 virus' RNA are actually also >>>>> found in the HIV virus.
What's so surprising about that? All viruses do similar things so
certain sequences are bound to be found in many viruses.
A moment with Google reveals that it’s a conspiracy theory, held
primarily by people who believe SARS-Cov-2 is synthetic.
The genomes of both viruses are available online, so anyone who wants to >>> believes it should be able to point directly to the supposed identical >>> sequences.
Desperately scrabbling for my tinfoil hat, this is clearly irrefutable
evidence of supernatural Malevolent Design.
Well of course we would do, as many life processes are shared by all life.
On 29.03.2021 at 21:46, TimS scribbled:
Richard Kettlewell<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> writes:
Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> wrote:
Certain gene sequences of the SARS-CoV-2 virus' RNA are actually
also found in the HIV virus.
What's so surprising about that? All viruses do similar things so
certain sequences are bound to be found in many viruses.
A moment with Google reveals that it’s a conspiracy theory, held
primarily by people who believe SARS-Cov-2 is synthetic.
The evidence of what I said is available in the report of the WHO investigation, Mr. Cynic.
The genomes of both viruses are available online, so anyone who
wants to believes it should be able to point directly to the
supposed identical sequences.
On 26-10-2021 23:06, TimS wrote:
Unix has apropos. So I just tried "apropos remove file". This gave me three >> and a half screens-full of commands (so, some hundreds), but not including >> 'rm'.
On MacOS (~BSD) it gives more than 20 pages because it seems to treat
the keywords as OR-ed and "file" is ubiquitous. Two pages for just
"apropos remove" and in both versions it includes on page two (because alphabetically) :
On 27 Oct 2021 at 07:51:38 BST, "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote:
On 26-10-2021 23:06, TimS wrote:
Unix has apropos. So I just tried "apropos remove file". This gave me three >>> and a half screens-full of commands (so, some hundreds), but not including >>> 'rm'.
On MacOS (~BSD) it gives more than 20 pages because it seems to treat
the keywords as OR-ed and "file" is ubiquitous. Two pages for just
"apropos remove" and in both versions it includes on page two (because
alphabetically) :
My Terminal windows are nearly 100 lines long.
On 2021-11-02, jak <nospam@please.ty> wrote:
Il 02/11/2021 15:39, The Natural Philosopher ha scritto:
On 02/11/2021 14:31, jak wrote:
Il 02/11/2021 09:26, The Natural Philosopher ha scritto:Then they are probably guilty of fake news.
On 01/11/2021 20:22, jak wrote:
Forgive my lack of knowledge of the English language but it is
precisely
on this point that our opinions differ: if, for example, you are
vaccinated and you touch the handle of an infected door then you will >>>>>> touch another handle that I will also touch, I will get infected
because
of you even if you are vaccinated.
Exactly.
The difference is that you who are
vaccinated will not get sick while I, who am not, will. When I was >>>>>> young, they gave me the measles vaccine and told me that by doing so I >>>>>> would most likely not get measles. Instead now they tell me that I have >>>>>> to vaccinate otherwise other people get sick? I am really confused >>>>>> because it is not necessary to be sick to pass the infection.
Exactly. BUT it reduces the spread. the virus on your vaccinated
hands will not multiply in your lungs and get coughed out into
someone unvaccinated persons face to cause them to wither and die.
Vaccination reduces the overall world virus load.
As well as 'protecting vulnerable people'
The whole anti-vax thing is simply another manifestation of the
ArtStudent™ mind that can only think in Boolean terms = protect/does >>>>> not protect, prevents infection/does not prevent infection.
It's a numbers game. Vaccination lowers infection rate, transmission >>>>> rate hospitalisation rate and death rate.
which certainly indicates that the side effects are less worse than
the disease.
It does however, *guarantee* nothing,
First of all I thank everyone (in this branch) for your answers and now >>>> I understand the reason for your reasoning. Here where I live (Italy)
the media have said and reiterated that this was not an airborne virus, >>>
Wiki:
"COVID-19 transmits when people breathe in air contaminated by droplets
and small airborne particles containing the virus. The risk of breathing >>> these in is highest when people are in close proximity, but they can be
inhaled over longer distances, particularly indoors. Transmission can
also occur if splashed or sprayed with contaminated fluids in the eyes,
nose or mouth, and, rarely, via contaminated surfaces. People remain
contagious for up to 20 days, and can spread the virus even if they do
not develop symptoms"
for this reason I have a different way of looking at the related
problems. In any case, public administrations are very concerned with
the people who want to vaccinate and what they don't, but they forget to >>>> manage what they can't.
I think something got lost in translation there.???
...you are probably right :)
Following the media, they talk a lot about the vaccinated and also a lot
about those who refuse the vaccine. Unfortunately, they speak very
little about how to behave those who cannot be vaccinated. This problem
The problem is that those who "cannot" be vaccinated are a miniscule
part of the population. What makes it so they cannot be vaccinated? A
severe alergic reaction to some of the ingredents might be, but that is
very rare. If everyone but them were vaccinated, one would have no
worries. The virus would die out.
On 03/11/2021 07:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 07:27:04 +0000Do you really think that the EU - a small corrupt bureaucracy founded by
Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> wrote:
The UK is no longer in Europe?
Correct. They took a referendum, voted to leave the EU, did so and
went through a protracted (more than two years!) leaving negotiation
process that ended up with essentially "no deal" and, since the start of
this year, are no longer in the EU, leaving a messy issue around the
Eire/Northern Ireland border.
Did you really miss all that happening ? Did you not encounter the
term Brexit ?
an Italian communist that gathers and redistributes taxes, and attempts
to be a self appointed undemocratic lawmaker for 27 countries whose politicians were bribed or blackmailed into entering it - represents Europe?
On 3 Nov 2021 at 08:30:27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 03/11/2021 07:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 07:27:04 +0000Do you really think that the EU - a small corrupt bureaucracy founded by
Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> wrote:
The UK is no longer in Europe?
Correct. They took a referendum, voted to leave the EU, did so and
went through a protracted (more than two years!) leaving negotiation
process that ended up with essentially "no deal" and, since the start of >>> this year, are no longer in the EU, leaving a messy issue around the
Eire/Northern Ireland border.
Did you really miss all that happening ? Did you not encounter the
term Brexit ?
an Italian communist that gathers and redistributes taxes, and attempts
to be a self appointed undemocratic lawmaker for 27 countries whose
politicians were bribed or blackmailed into entering it - represents Europe?
After yesterday's shenanigans in the Commons how can you accuse others
of corruption with a straight face?
After yesterday's shenanigans in the Commons how can you accuse others
of corruption with a straight face?
alister wrote on 20/12/21 2:50 am:
On 19 Dec 2021 13:18:22 GMT, TimS wrote:
On 19 Dec 2021 at 09:37:28 GMT, Daniel65
<daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
TimS wrote on 5/11/2021 12:46 am:
On 04 Nov 2021 at 12:39:05 GMT, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>Gee, that sound just like any elected Parliament that I've heard of!!
wrote:
On 04/11/2021 10:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/11/2021 19:24, Java Jive wrote:
FALSE! It represent 448m out of 746m citizens of Europe.
How can it when not one of them ever voted for it?
Nonsense, they vote for it every time they vote for an MEP.
That's nothing more than the trappings of democracy; it's fool's gold >>>>> and like a mug, you think it's good.
With the List System, candidates are selected by the party. Those at >>>>> the top of the list are pretty much guaranteed to be elected. They
need have no contact with the public at all and cannot realistically >>>>> be gotten rid of.
Once elected, MEPs can then *completely* ignore the public until next >>>>> time.
Any parliament where its MPs are elected via a list system, yes. With
FPTP you can vote an individual out. And of course, with the EU
parliament, there are no by-elections. If someone dies or resigns, the
next one on the list gets the nod automatically. How's that for
democracy!
FPTP needs to be replaced but the only sensible option is Single
Transferable Vote
if no candidate has a majority then the lowest candidate is removed &
their votes added to the 2nd choice candidate of each voter - repeat as
necessary (it may need a 3rd choice etc depending on the number of
candidates).
Hmm! Here in Australia, we call that "First Past The Post"!
On 24/12/2021 18:09, Axel Berger wrote:
Java Jive wrote:
On 24/12/2021 08:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have a first class honours degree in electrical engineering
I have a 1st Class Honours Degree in Mathematics & Computing,
In German we have a word for that: "Schwanzvergleich".
Translates literally as "tail comparison", so I presume the vernacular
would be "arse comparison" :-)
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