• Re: Day 3: Network Experiments

    From apam@21:1/125 to Avon on Fri May 25 18:16:00 2018
    On 05/24/18, Blue White pondered and said...

    Moderated echos and better dupe prevention. Probably other benef
    too. A message does not echo out to the other subscribed nodes un reaches the echo host for that echo. That is if I understand it correctly.

    If that's the case it still seems to me to be a slightly weaker way
    to run things. In fsxNet all the HUBs are fully meshed so although
    dupes are caused at three HUBs each time something is posted by (lets
    say) a node in NET 1, the other NETs have a far better chance of
    getting the messages with the other three HUBs also sharing the same traffic between them.

    I guess it really depends on your priorities, and how you rate fault
    tolerance. I don't know about GTPower, but in my own system if the hub
    rolls over then it's pretty catastrophic. If the node hosting an echo
    area disappears, then so does the echo area, so yeah, not very fault
    tolerant -- but it's only been 4 days of thinking / implementing :)

    FSXnet is better equipped to handle a hub failure as you say, but if one
    hub goes out, then a third of the network does too (assuming there are 3
    hubs, not counting the frontdoor one).

    So ultimately, you need all the nodes to be hubs, and all mesh together
    to be fully fault tolerant, I guess that's kind of what you were talking
    about the other day with p2p networking.

    However, it is my understanding that in this scenario, all nodes need to communicate all traffic to all other nodes else there is a chance for
    messages not to turn up?

    Andrew

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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to apam on Sat May 26 16:36:16 2018
    On 05/25/18, apam pondered and said...

    I guess it really depends on your priorities, and how you rate fault tolerance. I don't know about GTPower, but in my own system if the hub rolls over then it's pretty catastrophic. If the node hosting an echo
    area disappears, then so does the echo area, so yeah, not very fault tolerant -- but it's only been 4 days of thinking / implementing :)

    Yep gotcha..

    FSXnet is better equipped to handle a hub failure as you say, but if one hub goes out, then a third of the network does too (assuming there are 3 hubs, not counting the frontdoor one).

    Yep that's right

    So ultimately, you need all the nodes to be hubs, and all mesh together
    to be fully fault tolerant, I guess that's kind of what you were talking about the other day with p2p networking.

    I don't know if all is required but ideally there would be some additional linkages between a few. Indeed the idea might be when a node joins by default it links to either a couple of HUBs and/or a couple of other nodes... I'd say that would surely do it for most nodes to get the redundancy they wanted..

    However, it is my understanding that in this scenario, all nodes need to communicate all traffic to all other nodes else there is a chance for messages not to turn up?

    Well I guess there's always a chance but in the case of some systems that
    have linked to my Fido feed not all echoareas are being fed to them. Those nodes seem to take a view of pulling a mix of echos from a mix of locations
    but it's not a 100% mesh thing for a number of them..

    Best, Paul

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  • From Blue White@21:1/175.8 to Avon on Sun May 27 18:11:36 2018
    If that's the case it still seems to me to be a slightly weaker way to
    run things. In fsxNet all the HUBs are fully meshed so although dupes

    Not if you like moderated echos.



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  • From apam@21:1/125 to Blue White on Mon May 28 14:04:54 2018
    If that's the case it still seems to me to be a slightly weaker w
    run things. In fsxNet all the HUBs are fully meshed so although d

    Not if you like moderated echos.

    What exactly do you mean by moderated echos? Are messages themselves
    moderated and approved before going out on the area, or just who can
    connect to the area itself?

    I've just done some work to hopefully do the latter, so that nodes that
    can connect to your area can be blacklisted or whitelisted. As for a
    moderator approving every post, it could be done I suppose, but seems
    like a lot of work.

    Andrew

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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to apam on Mon May 28 16:12:46 2018
    On 05/28/18, apam pondered and said...

    What exactly do you mean by moderated echos? Are messages themselves moderated and approved before going out on the area, or just who can connect to the area itself?

    I was wondering that also..

    In the case of Fido they talk about moderators as people who provide feedback on content posted etc. and I guess in days of old may have had some ability
    to do what was called a 'feed cut' to prevent a node from obtaining the echomail etc.

    It all sounds a bit heavy to me... and given todays climate of nodes opting
    for multiple feeds of the same echoarea .. the idea of locking out someone
    via a feed cut seems largely nonsensical.

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  • From apam@21:1/125 to Avon on Mon May 28 14:23:06 2018
    It all sounds a bit heavy to me... and given todays climate of nodes
    opting for multiple feeds of the same echoarea .. the idea of locking
    out someone via a feed cut seems largely nonsensical.

    Perhaps, but say someone wanted an area for just them and their friends,
    they could whitelist only their friends nodes. Assuming they kept their
    area available to only a select group on the BBSes, otherwise anyone
    could post by connecting to their BBS.

    Andrew


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  • From Bill McGarrity@21:2/141 to apam on Mon May 28 19:00:00 2018
    apam wrote to Avon on 05-28-18 14:23 <=-

    It all sounds a bit heavy to me... and given todays climate of nodes
    opting for multiple feeds of the same echoarea .. the idea of locking
    out someone via a feed cut seems largely nonsensical.

    Perhaps, but say someone wanted an area for just them and their
    friends, they could whitelist only their friends nodes. Assuming they
    kept their area available to only a select group on the BBSes,
    otherwise anyone could post by connecting to their BBS.

    If that was the case, wouldn't a listserv be more productive. Central board with an echoarea that would generate email to others. Answers via email by members would then be processed by the listserv which would post to that echoarea and generate email to others who are linked.



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  • From Tiny@21:1/130.4 to apam on Mon May 28 20:41:56 2018
    Quoting apam to Blue White <=-

    What exactly do you mean by moderated echos? Are messages themselves moderated and approved before going out on the area, or just who can

    That's how QWK networks could do it back in the day, and I think GTPower
    and WWIV as well.

    Was good for specific topics at one point... Now adays? Meh./

    Shawn

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  • From Blue White@21:1/175.8 to apam on Mon May 28 13:04:52 2018
    What exactly do you mean by moderated echos? Are messages themselves moderated and approved before going out on the area, or just who can connect to the area itself?

    Sort of both. :)

    I've just done some work to hopefully do the latter, so that nodes that can connect to your area can be blacklisted or whitelisted. As for a moderator approving every post, it could be done I suppose, but seems
    like a lot of work.

    It would be. The network I am familiar with, the sponsor did not have to approve the posts before they went out but, because all of the messages
    came to the host first before going out, they did have the opportunity to.

    Basically they could continue running their tosser without the switch set
    to bag up their echos. When they were done reading them, they could run it with that switch set.

    Probably overkill.



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