The problem is we have to make a user interface that isnt foreign to these people. I was trying to encourage Santronics instead of making a Wildcat Navigator like AOL days, just make an Android and IOS app for a potential version 9. That would make people more likely want to interact with the BBS world at the same time.
The problem is we have to make a user interface that isnt foreign to people. I was trying to encourage Santronics instead of making a Wild Navigator like AOL days, just make an Android and IOS app for a poten version 9. That would make people more likely want to interact with t BBS world at the same time.
Regarding this, one thing I keep thinking about is that BBSes like the ones we run are a retro tchnology as far as their interface, and many of us sysops run BBSes for nostalgia, to preserve these systems of ours
with the text interface, ANSI art, and way of interacting with the BBS.
As more modern features (such as a mobile app, web interface, etc.) are added to our BBSes, it feels like we're re-creating what has already
been done since the internet became popular. I feel like the text interface, ANSI & ANSI artwork, etc. is a defining feature of the BBSes
we run, and that's why we run them.
Also, what would you a mobile app to do with a BBS? Do you imagine a mobile app that allows users to read & post messages, upload & download files, etc? Or would it be something more basic like a telnet app? Mobile telnet apps do exist. And if you make a mobile app for reading & posting messages & accessing the files, etc., then you'd still probably want it to have some way to allow users to play the door games.
Switching into a text mode would be good, at least, and RIP support
would be interesting too.
Nightfox
On 10-11-22 23:26, boraxman wrote to Nightfox <=-
Completely agree. There are already mobile and web versions of chat
and messaging and forum and email services, so why reimplement it?
Trying to "modernise" the BBS would just be an exercise in reinventing Matrix, Web Forums, email, XMPP or Signal from scratch.
I think it is more valuable for BBS's to exist as they used to be, to serve as a working example of how things used to be, a different world.
It is like a heritage building. Heritage buildings are kept as they
are, because we want to still have the past with us.
As for web forums, that's a whole different kettle of fish. Web forums suff from a "one size fits all" mentality, when it comes to the interface. The i that _everyone_ wants to use a web based GUI interface that works in a particular way is rather absurd, really. Most web forums from here are very sluggish, because of the number of requests required to build a page (with ~ mS RTT on each set of requests - most forums are on the other side of the planet, and physics kinda gets in the way). I have had better performance o of locally installed web forums, but the navigation still leaves a bit to be desired.
Completely agree. There are already mobile and web versions of chat and messaging and forum and email services, so why reimplement it? Trying to "modernise" the BBS would just be an exercise in reinventin Matrix, Web Forums, email, XMPP or Signal from scratch.
I partly agree. Sure, there's many messaging apps, too many one might argue. The biggest issue is they're generally walled gardens, requiring users to keep a multitude of them on their devices. And real time short messaging is well covered by these apps.
As for web forums, that's a whole different kettle of fish. Web forums suffer from a "one size fits all" mentality, when it comes to the interface. The idea that _everyone_ wants to use a web based GUI interface that works in a particular way is rather absurd, really. Most web forums from here are very sluggish, because of the number of
requests required to build a page (with ~200 mS RTT on each set of requests - most forums are on the other side of the planet, and physics kinda gets in the way). I have had better performance out of locally installed web forums, but the navigation still leaves a bit to be
desired.
One thing some modern BBSs (especially Synchronet) do well is diversity
of access - web is there, as well as telnet, POP/IMAP, NNTP for
messaging, with FTP also available for file transfer. And one can even
go totally offline for messaging (as I am now).
I would like to try NNTP to access a BBS discussion, I do
mostly just use the BBS itself, and occasionally use
Multimail. I do prefer a "text mode" interface, which is
less cluttered, allows focus. This view would be a
minority view, I bet.
Being able to upload/download a QWK packet without having
to log in through telnet and go through the BBS interface
would be a major hurdle overcome in making it more
accessible. This would mean that a QWK reader on the
mobile could draw new message, and upload, without having
to deal with the issues of rendering an 80x25 interface to
be navigated for updates.
Hello boraxman!
** On Sunday 16.10.22 - 00:08, boraxman wrote to Vk3jed:
I would like to try NNTP to access a BBS discussion, I do
mostly just use the BBS itself, and occasionally use
Multimail. I do prefer a "text mode" interface, which is
less cluttered, allows focus. This view would be a
minority view, I bet.
Being able to upload/download a QWK packet without having
to log in through telnet and go through the BBS interface
would be a major hurdle overcome in making it more
accessible. This would mean that a QWK reader on the
mobile could draw new message, and upload, without having
to deal with the issues of rendering an 80x25 interface to
be navigated for updates.
Check out OpenXP. It will do all that. All you will need to
establish is a point address for each particular FTN that you
want to be a member of. For NNTP, it's pretty straight forward
too. You might appreciate the "text mode" interface too.
Screenshots here: http://openxp.kolico.ca/sample-screenshots/
Screenshots here: http://openxp.kolico.ca/sample-screenshots/
I'm trying to get it running now. It seems to, after creating the necessary directories, now just exit immediately upon running. I'll try
an earlier version and see how I go.
Web forums can be responsive, but they are generally not built that
way. Some discussion places, such as Reddit are horrendously slow,
and only made tolerable with TUI clients such as "Reddit Terminal
Viewer".
I would like to try NNTP to access a BBS discussion, I do mostly just
use the BBS itself, and occasionally use Multimail. I do prefer a
"text mode" interface, which is less cluttered, allows focus. This
view would be a minority view, I bet.
Being able to upload/download a QWK packet without having to log in
through telnet and go through the BBS interface would be a major
hurdle overcome in making it more accessible. This would mean that a
QWK reader on the mobile could draw new message, and upload, without
having to deal with the issues of rendering an 80x25 interface to be navigated for updates.
Screenshots here: http://openxp.kolico.ca/sample-screenshots/
I'm trying to get it running now. It seems to, after creating the necessary directories, now just exit immediately upon running. I'll t an earlier version and see how I go.
The linux version may need a couple of tweeks before install
depending on what distro you are using. More info about that
in the POINTS or XPOINT echos. The latter is served directly
via NNTP as well (alternatively gated into Fido), and is
originally a google group.
The latest version is .56
I'm still comfortable with the .51 Windows version.
--- OpenXP 5.0.51
Web forums can be responsive, but they are generally not built that way. Some discussion places, such as Reddit are horrendously slow,
and only made tolerable with TUI clients such as "Reddit Terminal Viewer".
Yeah, in general web development, even when using good tools/frameworks usually winds up with some crazy dependencies that bring in the jungle for a banana... they can be good, but often aren't in practice, and the amount of effort it sometimes takes is more than a lot of people will make.
I would like to try NNTP to access a BBS discussion, I do mostly just use the BBS itself, and occasionally use Multimail. I do prefer a "text mode" interface, which is less cluttered, allows focus. This view would be a minority view, I bet.
Being able to upload/download a QWK packet without having to log in through telnet and go through the BBS interface would be a major
hurdle overcome in making it more accessible. This would mean that a QWK reader on the mobile could draw new message, and upload, without having to deal with the issues of rendering an 80x25 interface to be navigated for updates.
Synchronet supports both of those use cases pretty well... NNTP is in
the box, though not always the speediest thing. As to QWK, it will generate on demand via FTP, would be nice if it had endpoints for HTTP GET/POST that worked the same way though.
--
I'm trying OpenXP, but haven't gotten it working properly
yet.
I'm actually quite OK with my current workflow, but for
others these extra steps I take could be the difference
between them trying to engage in a BBS based discussion, or
not bothering at all.
I'm trying OpenXP, but haven't gotten it working properly
yet.
Don't forget to take a look at the "user guide". It is an
excellent step-by-step guide for a minimum configuration.
I'm actually quite OK with my current workflow, but for
others these extra steps I take could be the difference
between them trying to engage in a BBS based discussion, or
not bothering at all.
OXP's built-in help is pretty good too. Simply press F1 at any
one particular level in the program and it will display
relevant help screens and subscreens.
--- OpenXP 5.0.51
I appreciate that, but for a lot of people, simply SEEING a
text based program will make them run. I've discussed
communications possibilities for an organisation with
others, and for some, if there is no mobile "app", its a no
go.
I myself am OK with doing this, as would many people here.. [...]
[..], but for many, many people who we could want to court,
OpenXP is not an option. Not saying this to disparage the
software, I'm sure its good, but many people who are online
(which is nearly everyone now) is used to a very simple
touch-screen app.
** On Wednesday 19.10.22 - 11:21, boraxman wrote to Ogg:
I appreciate that, but for a lot of people, simply SEEING a
text based program will make them run. I've discussed
communications possibilities for an organisation with
others, and for some, if there is no mobile "app", its a no
go.
You're changing the subject! ;) My response was to your
original statements:
"occasionally use Multimail. I do prefer a "text mode"
interface, which is less cluttered, allows focus."
"Being able to upload/download a QWK packet without having to
log in through telnet and go through the BBS interface would be
a major hurdle overcome in making it more accessible. This
would mean that a QWK reader on the mobile could draw new
message, and upload, without having to deal with the issues of
rendering an 80x25 interface to be navigated for updates."
And that is what OpenXP can achieve (I thought) for you.
I myself am OK with doing this, as would many people here.. [...]
Excellent. OpenXP is a much quicker way to manage participation
in echomail. It has handy search capabilities for the entire
"database" of messages. No more juggling QWK packets.
[..], but for many, many people who we could want to court,
OpenXP is not an option. Not saying this to disparage the
software, I'm sure its good, but many people who are online
(which is nearly everyone now) is used to a very simple
touch-screen app.
Find and dandy. But I thought you were expressing YOUR needs.
There IS an "app" way to participate in some fidonet echos:
Telegram. ;) Although the messaging style is chat-like in
the Telegram realm, the Tg-BBS does a pretty good job quoting
messages on their way back to the fidonet realm.
Re-read my message of Aug 28 (msgid: 21:4/106.21@fsxnet
ffdbceca) for info on how to give Tg-BBS a try.
Regarding this, one thing I keep thinking about is that BBSes like the ones we run are a retro tchnology as far as their interface, and many of us sysops run BBSes for nostalgia, to preserve these systems of ours
with the text interface, ANSI art, and way of interacting with the BBS.
As more modern features (such as a mobile app, web interface, etc.) are added to our BBSes, it feels like we're re-creating what has already
been done since the internet became popular. I feel like the text interface, ANSI & ANSI artwork, etc. is a defining feature of the BBSes
we run, and that's why we run them.
Also, what would you a mobile app to do with a BBS? Do you imagine a mobile app that allows users to read & post messages, upload & download files, etc? Or would it be something more basic like a telnet app? Mobile telnet apps do exist. And if you make a mobile app for reading & posting messages & accessing the files, etc., then you'd still probably want it to have some way to allow users to play the door games.
Switching into a text mode would be good, at least, and RIP support
would be interesting too.
been done since the internet became popular. I feel like the text interface, ANSI & ANSI artwork, etc. is a defining feature of the BBS we run, and that's why we run them.
^^^^^ THIS RIGHT HERE ^^^^^
been done since the internet became popular. I feel like the
text interface, ANSI & ANSI artwork, etc. is a defining feature
of the BBS we run, and that's why we run them.
I largely agree with this, but I also would like to see things like having ANSIs that have greater resolution than 80x25, and maybe even have support for unicode, or at least a simplified set of unicode.
Basically, I like the lack of graphics and variety of things that make it hard to share memes or have posts go viral, but don't get why that means we have to stick to 16 colors, 80x25, 7-bit ASCII.
Though, on that note, I think Synchroterm has been making progress on those things, and I know Magiterm supports greather than 16 colors, even if I'm not quite sure how to draw anything with more colors.
Basically, I like the lack of graphics and variety of
things that make it hard to share memes or have posts go
viral, but don't get why that means we have to stick to 16
colors, 80x25, 7-bit ASCII.
I largely agree with this, but I also would like to see things like
having ANSIs that have greater resolution than 80x25, and maybe even
have support for unicode, or at least a simplified set of unicode.
Basically, I like the lack of graphics and variety of things that make
it hard to share memes or have posts go viral, but don't get why that means we have to stick to 16 colors, 80x25, 7-bit ASCII.
Though, on that note, I think Synchroterm has been making progress on those things, and I know Magiterm supports greather than 16 colors, even if I'm not quite sure how to draw anything with more colors.
I largely agree with this, but I also would like to see things like having ANSIs that have greater resolution than 80x25, and maybe even have support for unicode, or at least a simplified set of unicode.
I don't think it would be ANSI any longer at that point.
I largely agree with this, but I also would like to see things like having ANSIs that have greater resolution than 80x25, and maybe even have support for unicode, or at least a simplified set of unicode.
I don't think it would be ANSI any longer at that point.
The next step up from ANSI is RIP Graphics, which is closer to CGA,
maybe even EGA level graphics with more colors, and even sound.
think all the ANSI BBS terminals even support it. I haven't even seen or heard any new ANSI Music in a VERY long time.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
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