https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-B760-PLUS-motherboard-Ethernet-DisplayPort/dp/B0BNQDVLGN/ref=sr_1_1_mod_primary_new?
ASUS Prime B760-PLUS D4, an Intel B760 LGA 1700 ATX motherboard with
PCIe 5.0, three PCIe 4.0 M.2 slots, DDR4, Realtek 2.5Gb Ethernet, DisplayPort, VGA, HDMI, SATA 6 Gbps, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type-C
https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD_BLACK-SN770-2280-Gaming-speed/dp/B09QV692XY/ref=sr_1_3?
WD_BLACK SN770 1TB NVMe M.2 SSD, M.2 2280 NVMe SSD, Gaming Solid
State drive, PCIe Gen4 NVMe, High Performance Gaming drive, Read
speeds up to 5150 MB/s, Black
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-S1700-CORE-12400-GEN12/dp/B09MDH6B1P/ref=sr_1_1_mod_primary_new?
Intel S1700 CORE i5 12400 BOX 6x2,5 65W GEN12, Black
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-2x16GB-3200MT-Desktop-CP2K16G4DFRA32A/dp/B0C29R9LNL/ref=sr_1_3?
Crucial Pro DDR4 RAM 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 3200MHz, Intel XMP 2.0,
Computer Memory (PC) - CP2K16G4DFRA32A
Hello all,
I built my parents computer with the above components, had my own
power supply a cooler master 600W non modular.
It booted first time and they are happy.
I followed anti static procedures.
Now then here is the problem, my cousin bought identical components,
but his power supply is a fatality 750 watt (OCZ Fatal1ty 750 Watt 80
plus Bronze Certified PSU) capacity.
I just built his new computer, but it refuses to boot, but after 50
times it eventually does. BIOS settings are unchanged, when it does
boot,
it only goes straight to the BIOS. His storage HD's are seen as well
as all the Crucial RAM - 32GB, CPU is hovering around 29-30 Celsius.
All looks good, but he cannot find how to set the boot order to the
Sandisk 64 GB USB 3.0 drive that has Win 11 x64 on planted by the
latest Rufus.
The motherboard makes a short single beep at boot up and nothing is
seen on the monitor. Monitor works fine as does the HDMI cable.
CPU fan spins as well as case fans - both for about 5 seconds and a
single short beep is heard. I have tried to move RAM to different
slots, using a single stick,
so nothing happens. His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried,
this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing
is seen on screen.
Will this RAM be better suited? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CMK16GX4M2B3200C16-Vengeance-Performance-Desktop/dp/B0143UM4TC/ref=sr_1_3?
Corsair VENGEANCE LPX DDR4 RAM 16GB (2x8GB) 3200MHz CL16 Intel XMP
2.0 Computer Memory - Black (CMK16GX4M2B3200C16)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-B760-PLUS-motherboard-Ethernet-DisplayPort/dp/B0BNQDVLGN/ref=sr_1_1_mod_primary_new?
ASUS Prime B760-PLUS D4, an Intel B760 LGA 1700 ATX motherboard with
PCIe 5.0, three PCIe 4.0 M.2 slots, DDR4, Realtek 2.5Gb Ethernet, DisplayPort, VGA, HDMI, SATA 6 Gbps, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type-C
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-B760-PLUS-motherboard-Ethernet-DisplayPort/dp/B0BNQDVLGN/ref=sr_1_1_mod_primary_new?
ASUS Prime B760-PLUS D4, an Intel B760 LGA 1700 ATX motherboard with
PCIe 5.0, three PCIe 4.0 M.2 slots, DDR4, Realtek 2.5Gb Ethernet, DisplayPort, VGA, HDMI, SATA 6 Gbps, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type-C
https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD_BLACK-SN770-2280-Gaming-speed/dp/B09QV692XY/ref=sr_1_3?
WD_BLACK SN770 1TB NVMe M.2 SSD, M.2 2280 NVMe SSD, Gaming Solid
State drive, PCIe Gen4 NVMe, High Performance Gaming drive, Read
speeds up to 5150 MB/s, Black
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-S1700-CORE-12400-GEN12/dp/B09MDH6B1P/ref=sr_1_1_mod_primary_new?
Intel S1700 CORE i5 12400 BOX 6x2,5 65W GEN12, Black
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-2x16GB-3200MT-Desktop-CP2K16G4DFRA32A/dp/B0C29R9LNL/ref=sr_1_3?
Crucial Pro DDR4 RAM 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 3200MHz, Intel XMP 2.0,
Computer Memory (PC) - CP2K16G4DFRA32A
Hello all,
I built my parents computer with the above components, had my own
power supply a cooler master 600W non modular.
It booted first time and they are happy.
I followed anti static procedures.
Now then here is the problem, my cousin bought identical components,
but his power supply is a fatality 750 watt (OCZ Fatal1ty 750 Watt 80
plus Bronze Certified PSU) capacity.
I just built his new computer, but it refuses to boot, but after 50
times it eventually does. BIOS settings are unchanged, when it does
boot,
it only goes straight to the BIOS. His storage HD's are seen as well
as all the Crucial RAM - 32GB, CPU is hovering around 29-30 Celsius.
All looks good, but he cannot find how to set the boot order to the
Sandisk 64 GB USB 3.0 drive that has Win 11 x64 on planted by the
latest Rufus.
The motherboard makes a short single beep at boot up and nothing is
seen on the monitor. Monitor works fine as does the HDMI cable.
CPU fan spins as well as case fans - both for about 5 seconds and a
single short beep is heard. I have tried to move RAM to different
slots, using a single stick,
so nothing happens. His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried,
this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing
is seen on screen.
Will this RAM be better suited? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CMK16GX4M2B3200C16-Vengeance-Performance-Desktop/dp/B0143UM4TC/ref=sr_1_3?
Corsair VENGEANCE LPX DDR4 RAM 16GB (2x8GB) 3200MHz CL16 Intel XMP
2.0 Computer Memory - Black (CMK16GX4M2B3200C16)
His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried,
this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing
is seen on screen.
On Sat, 8/3/2024 2:28 PM, Dan wrote:
His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried,
this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing
is seen on screen.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-550-ti.c274
Bus Interface PCIe 2.0 x16
TDP 116 W
Power Connectors (1) 6-pin
That means up to 75 watts via the slot connector, 75 watts via the 6-pin. >Make sure the six pin is plugged in. There is a sensor wire on the 6 pin,
and the card knows whether you plugged it in or not.
On ATI cards, sensing for power caused a red dialog to appear on the
screen, which said "plug in the power" or similar. I don't think
NVidia has that feature.
You can look up other cards on TechPowerup, such as if you have bought a >newer video card as part of the build. But otherwise, the
GPU inside the 12400 will give you a working screen.
And, using popup boot F8 key, you should be able to boot reliably.
We do not know whether the 550ti is a legacy BIOS card, but
the vintage of PCI Express suggests this is the case. There
was a generation of cards, where the manufacturer offered a GOP BIOS
image as an option on their web site. For those cards then, the user
had two options.
(Optional) Video card bios images, have offered us the following features:
PCI Express rev1.1 jammer (Causes a Rev2 card, to run Rev1 always, and work with poorly designed motherboards)
Video card GOP BIOS image (Useful for newer UEFI BIOS motherboards)
Card ships with legacy video BIOS.
User makes backup copy of legacy BIOS, before proceeding with change
I've only flashed one card myself, and it worked.
The trick is, you are offered many many BIOS images,
and one of them is "right for the job" :-) Using your
emergency (PCI bus!) video card, you can always
see what you're doing. That's why I was able to do it.
I was not working blind (some procedure descriptions
recommend working in the dark with no working video card etc) .
But there is nothing to flash in this example, so no, we're
doing no such thing. This is just to describe some of the options
which have been available from time to time. Video cards do have
their tricks. The power connector ? One of those tricks.
Paul
On Sat, 8/3/2024 2:28 PM, Dan wrote:
His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried,
this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing
is seen on screen.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-550-ti.c274
Bus Interface PCIe 2.0 x16
TDP 116 W
Power Connectors (1) 6-pin
That means up to 75 watts via the slot connector, 75 watts via the 6-pin. >Make sure the six pin is plugged in. There is a sensor wire on the 6 pin,
and the card knows whether you plugged it in or not.
On ATI cards, sensing for power caused a red dialog to appear on the
screen, which said "plug in the power" or similar. I don't think
NVidia has that feature.
You can look up other cards on TechPowerup, such as if you have bought a >newer video card as part of the build. But otherwise, the
GPU inside the 12400 will give you a working screen.
And, using popup boot F8 key, you should be able to boot reliably.
We do not know whether the 550ti is a legacy BIOS card, but
the vintage of PCI Express suggests this is the case. There
was a generation of cards, where the manufacturer offered a GOP BIOS
image as an option on their web site. For those cards then, the user
had two options.
(Optional) Video card bios images, have offered us the following features:
PCI Express rev1.1 jammer (Causes a Rev2 card, to run Rev1 always, and work with poorly designed motherboards)
Video card GOP BIOS image (Useful for newer UEFI BIOS motherboards)
Card ships with legacy video BIOS.
User makes backup copy of legacy BIOS, before proceeding with change
I've only flashed one card myself, and it worked.
The trick is, you are offered many many BIOS images,
and one of them is "right for the job" :-) Using your
emergency (PCI bus!) video card, you can always
see what you're doing. That's why I was able to do it.
I was not working blind (some procedure descriptions
recommend working in the dark with no working video card etc) .
But there is nothing to flash in this example, so no, we're
doing no such thing. This is just to describe some of the options
which have been available from time to time. Video cards do have
their tricks. The power connector ? One of those tricks.
Paul
"GPU inside the 12400 will give you a working screen" sadly not and
only in 1 of 50 boots
On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 17:16:11 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
I have tried directly using the HDMI cable directly to the
motherboard. Same result
I have tried pressing F8, no result
I think card is a PCIe Rev2 video card
BIOS screen does not always come up as once power button is pressed,
the screen is empty as I have switched it on before power up
Re: "https://www.smps.us/atx-connector-20-24pin.jpeg"
I will ask him to try to try: does it
boot when you short PS-ON to ground? It's the green wire in the
20-wire
power connector/header on the mobo to which you connect the PSU
Re: "Tried resetting BIOS settings by shorting the 2-pin mobo header?"
I wil ask to try this.
"was an adequate amount of thermal paste applied to the CPU?"
It was the stock Intel cooler suppiled with the CPU. When it does get
to the bIOS, CPU temps are 29-30 Celcius.
I checked th clips underneath the motherboars, all the "legs" of stock
coller weere the same. The press down areas of the cooler legs were
all not moving andfirmly affixed to the motherboard.
I used smaller screw-heads than the area of the motherboard where the
screws are meant to be touching
No bad or burnt smell we could smell
Tried initially built in graphics gpu and then Asus - both same result
"GPU inside the 12400 will give you a working screen" sadly not and
only in 1 of 50 boots
On Sat, 8/3/2024 7:30 PM, Dan wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 17:16:11 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
I have tried directly using the HDMI cable directly to the
motherboard. Same result
I have tried pressing F8, no result
I think card is a PCIe Rev2 video card
BIOS screen does not always come up as once power button is pressed,
the screen is empty as I have switched it on before power up
Re: "https://www.smps.us/atx-connector-20-24pin.jpeg"
I will ask him to try to try: does it
boot when you short PS-ON to ground? It's the green wire in the
20-wire
power connector/header on the mobo to which you connect the PSU
If you have "fans spinning", then there is no need to access PS-ON# signal
on the main power connector.
Probing "PowerGood" (an indication from the power supply, that
power is available) would not be complete in any case. There
are additional instances of PowerGood on the motherboard, which
must be ANDed together to tell the motherboard that "all is well".
Since you have "one SPKR beep", the BIOS is running, power must have
been good. You have indirect proof that Power was Good.
The BIOS making a short (controlled-length) beep tells you a lot.
But, the symptoms are still mysterious, as the evidence is,
some part of the video output is not working. It could be a
loose connector (not fully seated). Remember I told you they
did a poor job on allowing the connector to seat properly.
That drives me nuts here (I occasionally see a black screen
after running for a while, and it is because I bumped the HDMI
connector).
Re: "Tried resetting BIOS settings by shorting the 2-pin mobo header?"
I wil ask to try this.
Remember not to do that for too long. That draws 3 milliamps from the >battery. There is a 1000 ohm resistor from the top of the battery, to
the PCH. And when you CLRTC, that connects the far end of the 1000 ohm >resistor to ground. The battery has limited capacity, and that is how
they decided to select 3 milliamps as the number. You SHOULD NOT
short the two pin thing, while the PC has +5VSB operating, as
that has higher current sourcing capability. Power should be
completely off to the PC, if you intend playing with that.
There are different ways to design CLRTC. Intel even provided a
reset signal, as an alternative to the industry standard method.
But nobody uses it. The instructions on CLRTC in the manual
have many times been wrong. I have received motherboard boxes,
with a separate sheet of typing paper, with corrected CLRTC
instructions which replaces the page in the manual (which is wrong).
"was an adequate amount of thermal paste applied to the CPU?"
It was the stock Intel cooler suppiled with the CPU. When it does get
to the bIOS, CPU temps are 29-30 Celcius.
I checked th clips underneath the motherboars, all the "legs" of stock
coller weere the same. The press down areas of the cooler legs were
all not moving andfirmly affixed to the motherboard.
I used smaller screw-heads than the area of the motherboard where the
screws are meant to be touching
No bad or burnt smell we could smell
Tried initially built in graphics gpu and then Asus - both same result
"GPU inside the 12400 will give you a working screen" sadly not and
only in 1 of 50 boots
https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-b760-plus-d4/helpdesk_qvl_cpu?model2Name=PRIME-B760-PLUS-D4
Core i5 i5-12400 2.5GHz 65W 18MB 6 H-0 all <=== All BIOS versions support this chip
(14xxx chip needs BIOS version check)
The metal standoffs on the motherboard, touch the bottom of the motherboard. >You check the bottom of the motherboard, before assembly, for "warning stickers".
The plated holes top and bottom, provided for mounting, are at
electrical GND potential on purpose. The motherboard standoffs are
meant to touch the metal ring. The screw heads are designed to
contact the plated area as well. This is for emissions, although
I have my doubts that makes any difference, and it is other aspects
of motherboard design that reduce emissions (buried clock signals
being an example of a way to make a quieter board). Many of the
clocks have "spread spectrum" as a means of cheating the lab
test equipment from an honest appraisal of the electrical noise :-)
This broadens a noise peak, and reduces the amplitude.
Your setup has lots of positive indicators (it is not broken).
Very little of it, is signaling something is wrong.
Without a video card in it, you could likely run the motherboard
on top of a cardboard telephone book or other insulator. Nothing
is needed to keep the faceplates upright, when there is no video card
plugged in and you are using HDMI/DP in the I/O plate area.
If you are using a 65W CPU and the Intel in-box cooler, then you
can almost pull the motherboard out of the case (without using
a removable tray casing). I have a couple builds here, where the
heatsink is too big, and must be removed to get the thing out
of the case. But a simplified build can sometimes be light enough,
you can get it in and out of the case without too much sweat.
*******
This particular Asus motherboard has a VGA connector. Since those
stand out a different amount than the HDMI and DP, you may have
better luck using the VGA to the monitor, instead. All my monitors
have VGA. VGA has saved my ass multiple times. It even works
good at 1920x1080, something I was not expecting to happen.
Paul
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-B760-PLUS-motherboard-Ethernet-DisplayPort/dp/B0BNQDVLGN/ref=sr_1_1_mod_primary_new?
ASUS Prime B760-PLUS D4, an Intel B760 LGA 1700 ATX motherboard with
PCIe 5.0, three PCIe 4.0 M.2 slots, DDR4, Realtek 2.5Gb Ethernet, DisplayPort, VGA, HDMI, SATA 6 Gbps, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type-C
https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD_BLACK-SN770-2280-Gaming-speed/dp/B09QV692XY/ref=sr_1_3?
WD_BLACK SN770 1TB NVMe M.2 SSD, M.2 2280 NVMe SSD, Gaming Solid
State drive, PCIe Gen4 NVMe, High Performance Gaming drive, Read
speeds up to 5150 MB/s, Black
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-S1700-CORE-12400-GEN12/dp/B09MDH6B1P/ref=sr_1_1_mod_primary_new?
Intel S1700 CORE i5 12400 BOX 6x2,5 65W GEN12, Black
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-2x16GB-3200MT-Desktop-CP2K16G4DFRA32A/dp/B0C29R9LNL/ref=sr_1_3?
Crucial Pro DDR4 RAM 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 3200MHz, Intel XMP 2.0,
Computer Memory (PC) - CP2K16G4DFRA32A
Hello all,
I built my parents computer with the above components, had my own
power supply a cooler master 600W non modular.
It booted first time and they are happy.
I followed anti static procedures.
Now then here is the problem, my cousin bought identical components,
but his power supply is a fatality 750 watt (OCZ Fatal1ty 750 Watt 80
plus Bronze Certified PSU) capacity.
I just built his new computer, but it refuses to boot, but after 50
times it eventually does. BIOS settings are unchanged, when it does
boot,
it only goes straight to the BIOS. His storage HD's are seen as well
as all the Crucial RAM - 32GB, CPU is hovering around 29-30 Celsius.
All looks good, but he cannot find how to set the boot order to the
Sandisk 64 GB USB 3.0 drive that has Win 11 x64 on planted by the
latest Rufus.
The motherboard makes a short single beep at boot up and nothing is
seen on the monitor. Monitor works fine as does the HDMI cable.
CPU fan spins as well as case fans - both for about 5 seconds and a
single short beep is heard. I have tried to move RAM to different
slots, using a single stick,
so nothing happens. His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried,
this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing
is seen on screen.
Will this RAM be better suited? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CMK16GX4M2B3200C16-Vengeance-Performance-Desktop/dp/B0143UM4TC/ref=sr_1_3?
Corsair VENGEANCE LPX DDR4 RAM 16GB (2x8GB) 3200MHz CL16 Intel XMP
2.0 Computer Memory - Black (CMK16GX4M2B3200C16)
I just built his new computer, but it refuses to boot, but after 50
times it eventually does. BIOS settings are unchanged, when it does
boot,
it only goes straight to the BIOS. His storage HD's are seen as well
as all the Crucial RAM - 32GB, CPU is hovering around 29-30 Celsius.
All looks good, but he cannot find how to set the boot order to the
Sandisk 64 GB USB 3.0 drive that has Win 11 x64 on planted by the
latest Rufus.
The motherboard makes a short single beep at boot up and nothing is
seen on the monitor. Monitor works fine as does the HDMI cable.
CPU fan spins as well as case fans - both for about 5 seconds and a
single short beep is heard. I have tried to move RAM to different
slots, using a single stick,
so nothing happens. His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried,
this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing
is seen on screen.
Dan <dannewsgroupsAAAA888@outlook.com> wrote:
I just built his new computer, but it refuses to boot, but after 50
times it eventually does. BIOS settings are unchanged, when it does
boot,
it only goes straight to the BIOS. His storage HD's are seen as well
as all the Crucial RAM - 32GB, CPU is hovering around 29-30 Celsius.
All looks good, but he cannot find how to set the boot order to the
Sandisk 64 GB USB 3.0 drive that has Win 11 x64 on planted by the
latest Rufus.
The motherboard makes a short single beep at boot up and nothing is
seen on the monitor. Monitor works fine as does the HDMI cable.
CPU fan spins as well as case fans - both for about 5 seconds and a
single short beep is heard. I have tried to move RAM to different
slots, using a single stick,
so nothing happens. His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried,
this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing
is seen on screen.
Weird boot failures can sometimes be CMOS battery related. Some boards (more >common in laptops I think) have a rechargeable battery and won't power on if >it's completely flat. Solution is to leave them powered for 24h to trickle >charge the battery.
I've also seen desktop boards fail to boot through a dead coin cell battery. >Wouldn't have expected that on a brand new mobo, but always worth trying a >new battery as a precaution. The random nature of boots could be a low rather >than completely flat, perhaps not quite enough to retain settings.
Theo
How to Boot from a USB Flash Drive/CD-ROM
- https://www.asus.com/support/faq/1013017/#A2
• USB boot drive must be formatted Fat 32
• Esc & Power brings up the supplementary (pop up) boot screen
Also
If the USB drive doesn't show/isn't detected in the bios then Fast
Boot & Secure boot must both be disabled
There should be info on boot options on the bottom of the splash screen
FYI, some motherboards will only allow booting from USB by selecting
from the supplementary (pop up) boot menu not from within the bios.
On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 00:08:14 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 8/3/2024 7:30 PM, Dan wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 17:16:11 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
I have tried directly using the HDMI cable directly to the
motherboard. Same result
I have tried pressing F8, no result
I think card is a PCIe Rev2 video card
BIOS screen does not always come up as once power button is pressed,
the screen is empty as I have switched it on before power up
Re: "https://www.smps.us/atx-connector-20-24pin.jpeg"
I will ask him to try to try: does it
boot when you short PS-ON to ground? It's the green wire in the
20-wire
power connector/header on the mobo to which you connect the PSU
If you have "fans spinning", then there is no need to access PS-ON# signal >> on the main power connector.
Probing "PowerGood" (an indication from the power supply, that
power is available) would not be complete in any case. There
are additional instances of PowerGood on the motherboard, which
must be ANDed together to tell the motherboard that "all is well".
Since you have "one SPKR beep", the BIOS is running, power must have
been good. You have indirect proof that Power was Good.
The BIOS making a short (controlled-length) beep tells you a lot.
But, the symptoms are still mysterious, as the evidence is,
some part of the video output is not working. It could be a
loose connector (not fully seated). Remember I told you they
did a poor job on allowing the connector to seat properly.
That drives me nuts here (I occasionally see a black screen
after running for a while, and it is because I bumped the HDMI
connector).
Re: "Tried resetting BIOS settings by shorting the 2-pin mobo header?"
I wil ask to try this.
Remember not to do that for too long. That draws 3 milliamps from the
battery. There is a 1000 ohm resistor from the top of the battery, to
the PCH. And when you CLRTC, that connects the far end of the 1000 ohm
resistor to ground. The battery has limited capacity, and that is how
they decided to select 3 milliamps as the number. You SHOULD NOT
short the two pin thing, while the PC has +5VSB operating, as
that has higher current sourcing capability. Power should be
completely off to the PC, if you intend playing with that.
There are different ways to design CLRTC. Intel even provided a
reset signal, as an alternative to the industry standard method.
But nobody uses it. The instructions on CLRTC in the manual
have many times been wrong. I have received motherboard boxes,
with a separate sheet of typing paper, with corrected CLRTC
instructions which replaces the page in the manual (which is wrong).
"was an adequate amount of thermal paste applied to the CPU?"
It was the stock Intel cooler suppiled with the CPU. When it does get
to the bIOS, CPU temps are 29-30 Celcius.
I checked th clips underneath the motherboars, all the "legs" of stock
coller weere the same. The press down areas of the cooler legs were
all not moving andfirmly affixed to the motherboard.
I used smaller screw-heads than the area of the motherboard where the
screws are meant to be touching
No bad or burnt smell we could smell
Tried initially built in graphics gpu and then Asus - both same result
"GPU inside the 12400 will give you a working screen" sadly not and
only in 1 of 50 boots
https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-b760-plus-d4/helpdesk_qvl_cpu?model2Name=PRIME-B760-PLUS-D4
Core i5 i5-12400 2.5GHz 65W 18MB 6 H-0 all <=== All BIOS versions support this chip
(14xxx chip needs BIOS version check)
The metal standoffs on the motherboard, touch the bottom of the motherboard. >> You check the bottom of the motherboard, before assembly, for "warning stickers".
The plated holes top and bottom, provided for mounting, are at
electrical GND potential on purpose. The motherboard standoffs are
meant to touch the metal ring. The screw heads are designed to
contact the plated area as well. This is for emissions, although
I have my doubts that makes any difference, and it is other aspects
of motherboard design that reduce emissions (buried clock signals
being an example of a way to make a quieter board). Many of the
clocks have "spread spectrum" as a means of cheating the lab
test equipment from an honest appraisal of the electrical noise :-)
This broadens a noise peak, and reduces the amplitude.
Your setup has lots of positive indicators (it is not broken).
Very little of it, is signaling something is wrong.
Without a video card in it, you could likely run the motherboard
on top of a cardboard telephone book or other insulator. Nothing
is needed to keep the faceplates upright, when there is no video card
plugged in and you are using HDMI/DP in the I/O plate area.
If you are using a 65W CPU and the Intel in-box cooler, then you
can almost pull the motherboard out of the case (without using
a removable tray casing). I have a couple builds here, where the
heatsink is too big, and must be removed to get the thing out
of the case. But a simplified build can sometimes be light enough,
you can get it in and out of the case without too much sweat.
*******
This particular Asus motherboard has a VGA connector. Since those
stand out a different amount than the HDMI and DP, you may have
better luck using the VGA to the monitor, instead. All my monitors
have VGA. VGA has saved my ass multiple times. It even works
good at 1920x1080, something I was not expecting to happen.
Paul
So, could it be possible that the motherboard is touching the case
somehow?
I only used the the stand offs according to this specific motherboard:
3 at the top and 3 at the bottom. But I had to use a chrome plated
screw from his spares.
I only initially tried the internal GPU then his old 550ti.
Same result apart the fanw were spinning normally on use of the 550ti
but - results were the same.
Nothing on the monitor.
On Sun, 8/4/2024 3:38 AM, Dan wrote:
On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 00:08:14 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 8/3/2024 7:30 PM, Dan wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 17:16:11 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote: >>>>
I have tried directly using the HDMI cable directly to the
motherboard. Same result
I have tried pressing F8, no result
I think card is a PCIe Rev2 video card
BIOS screen does not always come up as once power button is pressed,
the screen is empty as I have switched it on before power up
Re: "https://www.smps.us/atx-connector-20-24pin.jpeg"
I will ask him to try to try: does it
boot when you short PS-ON to ground? It's the green wire in the
20-wire
power connector/header on the mobo to which you connect the PSU
If you have "fans spinning", then there is no need to access PS-ON# signal >>> on the main power connector.
Probing "PowerGood" (an indication from the power supply, that
power is available) would not be complete in any case. There
are additional instances of PowerGood on the motherboard, which
must be ANDed together to tell the motherboard that "all is well".
Since you have "one SPKR beep", the BIOS is running, power must have
been good. You have indirect proof that Power was Good.
The BIOS making a short (controlled-length) beep tells you a lot.
But, the symptoms are still mysterious, as the evidence is,
some part of the video output is not working. It could be a
loose connector (not fully seated). Remember I told you they
did a poor job on allowing the connector to seat properly.
That drives me nuts here (I occasionally see a black screen
after running for a while, and it is because I bumped the HDMI
connector).
Re: "Tried resetting BIOS settings by shorting the 2-pin mobo header?" >>>> I wil ask to try this.
Remember not to do that for too long. That draws 3 milliamps from the
battery. There is a 1000 ohm resistor from the top of the battery, to
the PCH. And when you CLRTC, that connects the far end of the 1000 ohm
resistor to ground. The battery has limited capacity, and that is how
they decided to select 3 milliamps as the number. You SHOULD NOT
short the two pin thing, while the PC has +5VSB operating, as
that has higher current sourcing capability. Power should be
completely off to the PC, if you intend playing with that.
There are different ways to design CLRTC. Intel even provided a
reset signal, as an alternative to the industry standard method.
But nobody uses it. The instructions on CLRTC in the manual
have many times been wrong. I have received motherboard boxes,
with a separate sheet of typing paper, with corrected CLRTC
instructions which replaces the page in the manual (which is wrong).
"was an adequate amount of thermal paste applied to the CPU?"
It was the stock Intel cooler suppiled with the CPU. When it does get
to the bIOS, CPU temps are 29-30 Celcius.
I checked th clips underneath the motherboars, all the "legs" of stock >>>> coller weere the same. The press down areas of the cooler legs were
all not moving andfirmly affixed to the motherboard.
I used smaller screw-heads than the area of the motherboard where the
screws are meant to be touching
No bad or burnt smell we could smell
Tried initially built in graphics gpu and then Asus - both same result >>>>
"GPU inside the 12400 will give you a working screen" sadly not and
only in 1 of 50 boots
https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/prime/prime-b760-plus-d4/helpdesk_qvl_cpu?model2Name=PRIME-B760-PLUS-D4
Core i5 i5-12400 2.5GHz 65W 18MB 6 H-0 all <=== All BIOS versions support this chip
(14xxx chip needs BIOS version check)
The metal standoffs on the motherboard, touch the bottom of the motherboard.
You check the bottom of the motherboard, before assembly, for "warning stickers".
The plated holes top and bottom, provided for mounting, are at
electrical GND potential on purpose. The motherboard standoffs are
meant to touch the metal ring. The screw heads are designed to
contact the plated area as well. This is for emissions, although
I have my doubts that makes any difference, and it is other aspects
of motherboard design that reduce emissions (buried clock signals
being an example of a way to make a quieter board). Many of the
clocks have "spread spectrum" as a means of cheating the lab
test equipment from an honest appraisal of the electrical noise :-)
This broadens a noise peak, and reduces the amplitude.
Your setup has lots of positive indicators (it is not broken).
Very little of it, is signaling something is wrong.
Without a video card in it, you could likely run the motherboard
on top of a cardboard telephone book or other insulator. Nothing
is needed to keep the faceplates upright, when there is no video card
plugged in and you are using HDMI/DP in the I/O plate area.
If you are using a 65W CPU and the Intel in-box cooler, then you
can almost pull the motherboard out of the case (without using
a removable tray casing). I have a couple builds here, where the
heatsink is too big, and must be removed to get the thing out
of the case. But a simplified build can sometimes be light enough,
you can get it in and out of the case without too much sweat.
*******
This particular Asus motherboard has a VGA connector. Since those
stand out a different amount than the HDMI and DP, you may have
better luck using the VGA to the monitor, instead. All my monitors
have VGA. VGA has saved my ass multiple times. It even works
good at 1920x1080, something I was not expecting to happen.
Paul
So, could it be possible that the motherboard is touching the case
somehow?
I only used the the stand offs according to this specific motherboard:
3 at the top and 3 at the bottom. But I had to use a chrome plated
screw from his spares.
I only initially tried the internal GPU then his old 550ti.
Same result apart the fanw were spinning normally on use of the 550ti
but - results were the same.
Nothing on the monitor.
How many storage devices are connected ?
If there is nothing to boot from, the screen should light up and tell you that.
The BIOS failing to boot, there's no beep for that, but text should be on the screen.
The only codes left to the BIOS after that, is the donkey siren noise of an >out-of-spec VCore or if you are lucky, some beeps on temp before THERMTRIP drops
the machine.
If the BIOS can run, pressing <del> early on (Asus or MSI mobo), should cause it to enter the BIOS.
And not to boot.
If you run out of ideas:
1) Turn off all power (use switch on PSU, or unplug).
2) Remove all RAM sticks, and put into antistatic bag.
3) Verify that BIOS makes three-beeps sound. This is a double
check that the BIOS is running properly. The BIOS can't do that,
unless it verifies the checksum of the main BIOS module. The BIOS boot segment
is much smaller... and dumber. The BIOS runs register level code, discovers
nothing on the SPD bus, and sounds three-beeps for missing RAM.
Flashing the BIOS on this board, only seems to be possible via EZ-Flash 3. >And the problem with that, is getting the suite to install on Windows 11.
I can't get the suite to install here on an Asus. Silent failure. Install stops.
And that's on a system which is running Windows and is fine. I'm trying to >get to the AISuite 3 hardware monitor, for temperature measurements.
The lack of features on this 760 mobo, leaves a bad taste. (The test machine, with
the 4930K in it, there is a standalone chip that flashes the BIOS, a microcontroller,
and you don't even need a CPU in the socket to use it. That's the "premium" method.
Costs them a buck to do that. The next level after that, is just a push button >on the I/O plate and all HW installed, and that's not as good. This board has... nothing
at all for manual flashing, according to docs. On the other hand, the initial BIOS
runs all 12th and 13th gen CPUs. Combining a 14th gen CPU with this board, would
be a mistake, without a shop to help you fix the BIOS.)
Note that, a suggestion to flash this BIOS, is for an updated microcode. >Microcode is updated at two points in time: In the past, the BIOS microcode >update, was purely to solve boot issues with disks, leaving it to the OS microcode
to apply a final version (for the session). Microcode is RAM inside the processor
and contents are lost at end of session. Microcode is protected by crude crypto,
and the CPU will not accept an offered microcode, unless the checksum (or something
a bit stronger), passes. Your 12th gen, might not need microcode, and perhaps >the file offered today, won't help your board in the slightest. Only 13th and 14th gen
need eTVB. Intel will not modify the microcode on chips that don't need it.
T=0 Processor runs initial microcode (eTVB out of spec)
BIOS BIOS applies microcode. Version 1661 BIOS applies latest microcode (eTVB patch).
OS Windows will pass along the latest BIOS, but this is subject to
Microsoft testing, before it will necessarily be offered. The "revision"
of the CPU listed, is a measure of the microcode. A given level of
function, is only able to update the microcode, if the new version is
higher than the old version. The CPU should (eventually) be protected
from eTVB, just via a late microcode updater.
Clearing CMOS, must be done with all power off, wait at least 60 seconds
for +5VSB to drain. Touching the two contacts together (jumper plug, >screwdriver tip), should cause VCC3 to drop for a fraction of a
second, clearing 256 byte CMOS RAM in PCH. The BIOS should do "Load Setup Defaults"
upon being powered up and resetting itself via the reset pulse. It does this >because the CMOS RAM checksum is wrong, and it sanitizes the contents via
a reload of defaults. On a UEFI BIOS, there might not be much in the 256 byte area,
as the "NVRAM emulation" in the BIOS flash chip, stores boot paths and such, >DMI and hardware info.
If you have modified the BIOS and used any of the dangerous or unreasonable >settings, then clearing CMOS is an option. Some BIOS will also reset the >settings, upon three power fails in a row. The BIOS clears an indicator, if >it "came up", and the indicator does not get cleared if it crashed, and three >of those power fails sequentially, may also reset the BIOS.
DO NOT clear the BIOS without turning off power and waiting 60 seconds or more.
Doing so will burn the ORing diode. Shorting the +5VSB path to VCC3, draws >excess current through the BAT45 (three-legged Schottky diode). +5VSb must be >off, before fiddling with CLRTC legs!
Your power supply could be the root of the problem, and checking the voltages >might be an idea to follow up on. If you can find a SATA Y-cable, cut the head >off one of the two output-side connectors, the five wires there give you >3.3V, 5V, 12V for monitoring, plus two black ground wires. If you connect
the "3.3V GND 5V GND 12V" from the PSU, to a 22TB drive, the drive won't
spin up. Some extender cables have only four wires "[NC] GND 5V GND 12V"
and if the cable you snipped only had the four wires, well, you can't
monitor 3.3V that way. But the SATA connector would also operate a 22TB drive >if the 3.3V wire was missing (on an extender power cable you used on purpose). .
Voltages:
12V (Vcore power, disk drive power, PCIe slot)
5V (Disk drive logic board, some NAND-based storage)
3.3V (Lots of stuff. PCIe slot)
[ -5V (has not been in a PC for decades... Pin could be missing.) ]
-12V (0.25 amps, used for RS232 buffer chip, RS232 sometimes quietly provided on an Asus mobo)
+5VSB (supervisor -- provided with fans off, runs USB ports, PS/2 ports, 3 amps max.
Powers the front-of-case power button to work. Shorting this out
makes a motherboard stop-and-drop.)
My older supply is running 11.5V on the 12V, and it is still running a PC
as we speak. High capacity HDD do not like this. Older HDD are good to
as low as 11V, before the drive will spin down. Modern drives over about 8TB, >may spin down at 11.5V, a tighter spec. Determined empirically. Below 11V,
I would hope Power_Good on the PSU, is deasserted, and the mobo won't start. >You would not get the single-beep if this was the case.
Otherwise, modern supplies are double-forward-conversion, the first stage >makes +12V only, this feeds a smaller board with the 3.3V and 5V regulator >(buck converter or similar). There could be a bit of cross-loading between >3.3V and 5V, but not nearly as much as in the past when conversion was
a single step. Power regulation is very good on modern PSU.
+5VSB is a separate SMPS. -12V implementation is unknown,
could be on 3.3V/5V board, or, just about anywhere in there.
The BIOS power load is the "one-core-max" number. On my other
machine, all cores is 224 watts. One core railed, is 115W or so,
roughly. The power supply on that system then, must be able to
source 115W, much of it on +12V, but certainly a significant
amount on 3.3V and 5V (mobo loads, SOC supply, PCH can be 5 amps,
and so on). The video card does not go to 3D-max while sitting
in BIOS. My fan-wont-spin video cards, don't spin the fan in the BIOS.
You're approaching the "find intelligent life" part of a build :-)
While you can take the PCB out of the case, I don't really
think a miracle is going to happen. My PSU is slightly out of spec,
but a couple of boards have run off it, no problem. Just a high
capacity drive, warned me the +12V was too low. That's when I checked it.
The grounding status of the standoffs, should not affect board function. >There are all sorts of sneaky ways they get the ground in there, such
as a couple "fingers" on the IO plate that touch the top of an I/O stack.
Paul
Dan <dannewsgroupsAAAA888@outlook.com> wrote:
I just built his new computer, but it refuses to boot, but after 50
times it eventually does. BIOS settings are unchanged, when it does
boot,
it only goes straight to the BIOS. His storage HD's are seen as well
as all the Crucial RAM - 32GB, CPU is hovering around 29-30 Celsius.
All looks good, but he cannot find how to set the boot order to the
Sandisk 64 GB USB 3.0 drive that has Win 11 x64 on planted by the
latest Rufus.
The motherboard makes a short single beep at boot up and nothing is
seen on the monitor. Monitor works fine as does the HDMI cable.
CPU fan spins as well as case fans - both for about 5 seconds and a
single short beep is heard. I have tried to move RAM to different
slots, using a single stick,
so nothing happens. His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried,
this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing
is seen on screen.
Weird boot failures can sometimes be CMOS battery related. Some boards (more >common in laptops I think) have a rechargeable battery and won't power on if >it's completely flat. Solution is to leave them powered for 24h to trickle >charge the battery.
I've also seen desktop boards fail to boot through a dead coin cell battery. >Wouldn't have expected that on a brand new mobo, but always worth trying a >new battery as a precaution. The random nature of boots could be a low rather >than completely flat, perhaps not quite enough to retain settings.
Theo
On 04 Aug 2024 12:49:07 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dan <dannewsgroupsAAAA888@outlook.com> wrote:
I just built his new computer, but it refuses to boot, but after 50
times it eventually does. BIOS settings are unchanged, when it does
boot,
it only goes straight to the BIOS. His storage HD's are seen as well
as all the Crucial RAM - 32GB, CPU is hovering around 29-30 Celsius.
All looks good, but he cannot find how to set the boot order to the
Sandisk 64 GB USB 3.0 drive that has Win 11 x64 on planted by the
latest Rufus.
The motherboard makes a short single beep at boot up and nothing is
seen on the monitor. Monitor works fine as does the HDMI cable.
CPU fan spins as well as case fans - both for about 5 seconds and a
single short beep is heard. I have tried to move RAM to different
slots, using a single stick,
so nothing happens. His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried,
this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing
is seen on screen.
Weird boot failures can sometimes be CMOS battery related. Some boards (more >> common in laptops I think) have a rechargeable battery and won't power on if >> it's completely flat. Solution is to leave them powered for 24h to trickle >> charge the battery.
I've also seen desktop boards fail to boot through a dead coin cell battery. >> Wouldn't have expected that on a brand new mobo, but always worth trying a >> new battery as a precaution. The random nature of boots could be a low rather
than completely flat, perhaps not quite enough to retain settings.
Theo
Update: he tried his VGA monitor, sadly same results.
The motherboard is still beeping once every few seconds.
He took out the Li battery, while the mains cable was unplugged
and left it for about 15 minutes and then inserted into
its holder. No change in behaviour.
Still nothing on his screen. He tried Corsair 16BG DDR4 RAM and
again nothing good. Could it be the motherboard gone bad?
FYI, some motherboards will only allow booting from USB by selecting from the supplementary (pop up) boot menu not from within the bios.
On Sun, 8/4/2024 3:08 PM, Dan wrote:
On 04 Aug 2024 12:49:07 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dan <dannewsgroupsAAAA888@outlook.com> wrote:
I just built his new computer, but it refuses to boot, but after 50
times it eventually does. BIOS settings are unchanged, when it does
boot,
it only goes straight to the BIOS. His storage HD's are seen as well
as all the Crucial RAM - 32GB, CPU is hovering around 29-30 Celsius.
All looks good, but he cannot find how to set the boot order to the
Sandisk 64 GB USB 3.0 drive that has Win 11 x64 on planted by the
latest Rufus.
The motherboard makes a short single beep at boot up and nothing is
seen on the monitor. Monitor works fine as does the HDMI cable.
CPU fan spins as well as case fans - both for about 5 seconds and a
single short beep is heard. I have tried to move RAM to different
slots, using a single stick,
so nothing happens. His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried, >>>> this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing
is seen on screen.
Weird boot failures can sometimes be CMOS battery related. Some boards (more
common in laptops I think) have a rechargeable battery and won't power on if
it's completely flat. Solution is to leave them powered for 24h to trickle >>> charge the battery.
I've also seen desktop boards fail to boot through a dead coin cell battery.
Wouldn't have expected that on a brand new mobo, but always worth trying a >>> new battery as a precaution. The random nature of boots could be a low rather
than completely flat, perhaps not quite enough to retain settings.
Theo
Update: he tried his VGA monitor, sadly same results.
The motherboard is still beeping once every few seconds.
He took out the Li battery, while the mains cable was unplugged
and left it for about 15 minutes and then inserted into
its holder. No change in behaviour.
Still nothing on his screen. He tried Corsair 16BG DDR4 RAM and
again nothing good. Could it be the motherboard gone bad?
OK, tell us the pattern.
beep-beep-beep <silence> beep-beep-beep <silence> beep-beep-beep # could be a RAM code
beep beep-beep-beep beep beep-beep-beep-beep beep # 1-3-1-4 ??? == "Motherboard does not support onboard video!"
Normally, in manuals, you would list those patterns.
Some have never formally been documented (donkey siren while Windows running).
Tell us the code, we'll google it.
We can tell by looking at some of them, they are too old. Pre-year-2000 old. >DRAM refresh is fully automated, compared to the implications of a code shown here.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210812160922/https://softwarekeep.com/blog/what-are-asus-beep-codes-and-how-to-identify-them
Two-tone siren Low CPU fan speed, or voltage level issue. # Still valid today, could also be temperature
# Some of the code (temperature), replaced by Digi+ code (Digi+ board)
This is how tiny the table in the manual can be.
https://i.sstatic.net/ATqc1.png
Similar to this.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170119225704/http://www.asus.com/US/support/FAQ/1029959
That's why it is important to capture exactly what the pattern is.
We are pattern matching against "stingy sources".
When it came to Port 80 codes, any time a poster mentioned the value
on their display, the table showed <reserved>. Which is quite irritating,
as a bad habit of their staff.
The site "BiosCentral" used to have codes. The site was exploited.
There are no beep codes on the site any more, so it's been squatted
by the looks of it. The trouble with those codes again, would be
their age. But the page they had, was "comprehensive", compared
to the stingy sources today.
One BIOS company, only had patters from 1 through 9.
Another company, would have multi-burst patterns, like the 1-3-1-4 item.
There really isn't a standard across companies, or for that matter, across time.
Paul
On Sun, 8/4/2024 3:08 PM, Dan wrote:
On 04 Aug 2024 12:49:07 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dan <dannewsgroupsAAAA888@outlook.com> wrote:
I just built his new computer, but it refuses to boot, but after 50
times it eventually does. BIOS settings are unchanged, when it does
boot,
it only goes straight to the BIOS. His storage HD's are seen as well
as all the Crucial RAM - 32GB, CPU is hovering around 29-30 Celsius.
All looks good, but he cannot find how to set the boot order to the
Sandisk 64 GB USB 3.0 drive that has Win 11 x64 on planted by the
latest Rufus.
The motherboard makes a short single beep at boot up and nothing is
seen on the monitor. Monitor works fine as does the HDMI cable.
CPU fan spins as well as case fans - both for about 5 seconds and a
single short beep is heard. I have tried to move RAM to different
slots, using a single stick,
so nothing happens. His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried, >>>> this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing
is seen on screen.
Weird boot failures can sometimes be CMOS battery related. Some boards (more
common in laptops I think) have a rechargeable battery and won't power on if
it's completely flat. Solution is to leave them powered for 24h to trickle >>> charge the battery.
I've also seen desktop boards fail to boot through a dead coin cell battery.
Wouldn't have expected that on a brand new mobo, but always worth trying a >>> new battery as a precaution. The random nature of boots could be a low rather
than completely flat, perhaps not quite enough to retain settings.
Theo
Update: he tried his VGA monitor, sadly same results.
The motherboard is still beeping once every few seconds.
He took out the Li battery, while the mains cable was unplugged
and left it for about 15 minutes and then inserted into
its holder. No change in behaviour.
Still nothing on his screen. He tried Corsair 16BG DDR4 RAM and
again nothing good. Could it be the motherboard gone bad?
OK, tell us the pattern.
beep-beep-beep <silence> beep-beep-beep <silence> beep-beep-beep # could be a RAM code
beep beep-beep-beep beep beep-beep-beep-beep beep # 1-3-1-4 ??? == "Motherboard does not support onboard video!"
Normally, in manuals, you would list those patterns.
Some have never formally been documented (donkey siren while Windows running).
Tell us the code, we'll google it.
We can tell by looking at some of them, they are too old. Pre-year-2000 old. >DRAM refresh is fully automated, compared to the implications of a code shown here.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210812160922/https://softwarekeep.com/blog/what-are-asus-beep-codes-and-how-to-identify-them
Two-tone siren Low CPU fan speed, or voltage level issue. # Still valid today, could also be temperature
# Some of the code (temperature), replaced by Digi+ code (Digi+ board)
This is how tiny the table in the manual can be.
https://i.sstatic.net/ATqc1.png
Similar to this.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170119225704/http://www.asus.com/US/support/FAQ/1029959
That's why it is important to capture exactly what the pattern is.
We are pattern matching against "stingy sources".
When it came to Port 80 codes, any time a poster mentioned the value
on their display, the table showed <reserved>. Which is quite irritating,
as a bad habit of their staff.
The site "BiosCentral" used to have codes. The site was exploited.
There are no beep codes on the site any more, so it's been squatted
by the looks of it. The trouble with those codes again, would be
their age. But the page they had, was "comprehensive", compared
to the stingy sources today.
One BIOS company, only had patters from 1 through 9.
Another company, would have multi-burst patterns, like the 1-3-1-4 item.
There really isn't a standard across companies, or for that matter, across time.
Paul
On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 16:33:48 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 8/4/2024 3:08 PM, Dan wrote:
On 04 Aug 2024 12:49:07 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dan <dannewsgroupsAAAA888@outlook.com> wrote:
I just built his new computer, but it refuses to boot, but after 50
times it eventually does. BIOS settings are unchanged, when it does
boot,
it only goes straight to the BIOS. His storage HD's are seen as well >>>>> as all the Crucial RAM - 32GB, CPU is hovering around 29-30 Celsius. >>>>> All looks good, but he cannot find how to set the boot order to the
Sandisk 64 GB USB 3.0 drive that has Win 11 x64 on planted by the
latest Rufus.
The motherboard makes a short single beep at boot up and nothing is >>>>> seen on the monitor. Monitor works fine as does the HDMI cable.
CPU fan spins as well as case fans - both for about 5 seconds and a
single short beep is heard. I have tried to move RAM to different
slots, using a single stick,
so nothing happens. His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried, >>>>> this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing >>>>> is seen on screen.
Weird boot failures can sometimes be CMOS battery related. Some boards (more
common in laptops I think) have a rechargeable battery and won't power on if
it's completely flat. Solution is to leave them powered for 24h to trickle >>>> charge the battery.
I've also seen desktop boards fail to boot through a dead coin cell battery.
Wouldn't have expected that on a brand new mobo, but always worth trying a >>>> new battery as a precaution. The random nature of boots could be a low rather
than completely flat, perhaps not quite enough to retain settings.
Theo
Update: he tried his VGA monitor, sadly same results.
The motherboard is still beeping once every few seconds.
He took out the Li battery, while the mains cable was unplugged
and left it for about 15 minutes and then inserted into
its holder. No change in behaviour.
Still nothing on his screen. He tried Corsair 16BG DDR4 RAM and
again nothing good. Could it be the motherboard gone bad?
OK, tell us the pattern.
beep-beep-beep <silence> beep-beep-beep <silence> beep-beep-beep # could be a RAM code
beep beep-beep-beep beep beep-beep-beep-beep beep # 1-3-1-4 ??? == "Motherboard does not support onboard video!"
Normally, in manuals, you would list those patterns.
Some have never formally been documented (donkey siren while Windows running).
Tell us the code, we'll google it.
We can tell by looking at some of them, they are too old. Pre-year-2000 old. >> DRAM refresh is fully automated, compared to the implications of a code shown here.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210812160922/https://softwarekeep.com/blog/what-are-asus-beep-codes-and-how-to-identify-them
Two-tone siren Low CPU fan speed, or voltage level issue. # Still valid today, could also be temperature
# Some of the code (temperature), replaced by Digi+ code (Digi+ board)
This is how tiny the table in the manual can be.
https://i.sstatic.net/ATqc1.png
Similar to this.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170119225704/http://www.asus.com/US/support/FAQ/1029959
That's why it is important to capture exactly what the pattern is.
We are pattern matching against "stingy sources".
When it came to Port 80 codes, any time a poster mentioned the value
on their display, the table showed <reserved>. Which is quite irritating,
as a bad habit of their staff.
The site "BiosCentral" used to have codes. The site was exploited.
There are no beep codes on the site any more, so it's been squatted
by the looks of it. The trouble with those codes again, would be
their age. But the page they had, was "comprehensive", compared
to the stingy sources today.
One BIOS company, only had patters from 1 through 9.
Another company, would have multi-burst patterns, like the 1-3-1-4 item.
There really isn't a standard across companies, or for that matter, across time.
Paul
A single beep every few seconds.
I wil ask him to upload a audio file. This I will post to a file
sharing site.
Of course, you CANNOT get the single beep loop, unless the stupid
CPU was perfectly fine in its installation. You need to run BIOS
code, to make the beeping sound!
I would check that the CPU fan cable is properly plugged into the
four pin thing labeled "CPU fan" or similar. And make sure the CPU fan
cable is not pinched in something. That cable knows how to make your
life miserable.
It's not a "fundamental" which is wrong. You definitely put
a stick of RAM in there, there is a GPU and a graphics connector,
the CPU is in the socket. Many things are CORRECT. The deal
is, something that was supposed to be right, is off a bit.
Failed PSU ? Not really. The BIOS is running! We have Power-Good.
The PSU could be out of spec a bit, but the one I have here, there
is no warning whatsoever about my +12V.
Some fans spin too slow, but with improper hardware monitor design,
surely that still isn't happening. I've had motherboards where
a 1200 RPM CPU fan is barely enough to keep the fan detection happy
(three or four wire CPU fan). Fan speed is measured by tau (time period)
per rotation, rather than by RPM as such. They take the inverse of the
measured time period, to get rotation rate.
On Mon, 8/5/2024 1:34 AM, Dan wrote:
On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 16:33:48 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 8/4/2024 3:08 PM, Dan wrote:
On 04 Aug 2024 12:49:07 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dan <dannewsgroupsAAAA888@outlook.com> wrote:
I just built his new computer, but it refuses to boot, but after 50 >>>>>> times it eventually does. BIOS settings are unchanged, when it does >>>>>> boot,
it only goes straight to the BIOS. His storage HD's are seen as well >>>>>> as all the Crucial RAM - 32GB, CPU is hovering around 29-30 Celsius. >>>>>> All looks good, but he cannot find how to set the boot order to the >>>>>> Sandisk 64 GB USB 3.0 drive that has Win 11 x64 on planted by the
latest Rufus.
The motherboard makes a short single beep at boot up and nothing is >>>>>> seen on the monitor. Monitor works fine as does the HDMI cable.
CPU fan spins as well as case fans - both for about 5 seconds and a >>>>>> single short beep is heard. I have tried to move RAM to different
slots, using a single stick,
so nothing happens. His old graphics card an Asus 550ti gtx was tried, >>>>>> this time the computer starts, all fans runs continuously but nothing >>>>>> is seen on screen.
Weird boot failures can sometimes be CMOS battery related. Some boards (more
common in laptops I think) have a rechargeable battery and won't power on if
it's completely flat. Solution is to leave them powered for 24h to trickle
charge the battery.
I've also seen desktop boards fail to boot through a dead coin cell battery.
Wouldn't have expected that on a brand new mobo, but always worth trying a
new battery as a precaution. The random nature of boots could be a low rather
than completely flat, perhaps not quite enough to retain settings.
Theo
Update: he tried his VGA monitor, sadly same results.
The motherboard is still beeping once every few seconds.
He took out the Li battery, while the mains cable was unplugged
and left it for about 15 minutes and then inserted into
its holder. No change in behaviour.
Still nothing on his screen. He tried Corsair 16BG DDR4 RAM and
again nothing good. Could it be the motherboard gone bad?
OK, tell us the pattern.
beep-beep-beep <silence> beep-beep-beep <silence> beep-beep-beep # could be a RAM code
beep beep-beep-beep beep beep-beep-beep-beep beep # 1-3-1-4 ??? == "Motherboard does not support onboard video!"
Normally, in manuals, you would list those patterns.
Some have never formally been documented (donkey siren while Windows running).
Tell us the code, we'll google it.
We can tell by looking at some of them, they are too old. Pre-year-2000 old.
DRAM refresh is fully automated, compared to the implications of a code shown here.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210812160922/https://softwarekeep.com/blog/what-are-asus-beep-codes-and-how-to-identify-them
Two-tone siren Low CPU fan speed, or voltage level issue. # Still valid today, could also be temperature
# Some of the code (temperature), replaced by Digi+ code (Digi+ board)
This is how tiny the table in the manual can be.
https://i.sstatic.net/ATqc1.png
Similar to this.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170119225704/http://www.asus.com/US/support/FAQ/1029959
That's why it is important to capture exactly what the pattern is.
We are pattern matching against "stingy sources".
When it came to Port 80 codes, any time a poster mentioned the value
on their display, the table showed <reserved>. Which is quite irritating, >>> as a bad habit of their staff.
The site "BiosCentral" used to have codes. The site was exploited.
There are no beep codes on the site any more, so it's been squatted
by the looks of it. The trouble with those codes again, would be
their age. But the page they had, was "comprehensive", compared
to the stingy sources today.
One BIOS company, only had patters from 1 through 9.
Another company, would have multi-burst patterns, like the 1-3-1-4 item. >>>
There really isn't a standard across companies, or for that matter, across time.
Paul
A single beep every few seconds.
I wil ask him to upload a audio file. This I will post to a file
sharing site.
https://www.electronicshub.org/asus-motherboard-beep-codes/
"4. Continuous Beeping
Continuous beeping, sometimes referred to as a beep loop, indicates
critical hardware failures preventing the system from completing the POST process.
The repeated beeps signal a severe issue that requires immediate attention.
Interpretation
Critical hardware failure detected.
Possible Causes
CPU-related issue, such as a faulty or improperly seated processor.
Motherboard problem, such as a damaged component or incompatible hardware.
Power supply failure.
Action
Power off the computer immediately to prevent further damage.
"
The CPU needs the cooling fan on top.
The cooler provided by Intel, has pre-screened paste on the aluminium.
This paste, enhances thermal conductivity.
In addition, once the cooler is fitted, and the four (bozo) Intel retainers >"click", this means the cooler is secure. The Intel "thing", each leg >consists of plastic prongs spread apart by a metal thing. When the Intel
leg is rotated correctly with a slot-head screwdriver, the prongs can
be compressed together. This allows them to go through the holes in the >motherboard. When a leg is in the secured position, the metal thing between >the two prongs, pushes down, and now the prongs can no longer slap together >and the prong can't escape the hole. To release the retainer, requires
a 90 degree rotation of the plastic on top of the leg, and that
removes the retention.
Pushing down on the cooler, pushes the pasted cooler onto the top
of the CPU that has been placed in the socket.
For the socket, move the arm to the side, and open the arm to 90-100
degrees or so, so the metal frame can be rotated. Remove the Plug and Pray >cap that covers the LGA springs. Do not get conductive paste in the
LGA spring area. The CPU has an alignment feature, so that it only
fits one way. If you plopped it in at the wrong rotation (90, 180, 270),
then the lid would not close properly and the CPU would be tilted.
*******
The above observations, would be for people who are getting no beep at all.
Of course, you CANNOT get the single beep loop, unless the stupid
CPU was perfectly fine in its installation. You need to run BIOS
code, to make the beeping sound!
I would check that the CPU fan cable is properly plugged into the
four pin thing labeled "CPU fan" or similar. And make sure the CPU fan
cable is not pinched in something. That cable knows how to make your
life miserable.
Conclusion: Certainly, something is wrong. In some of these cases, the
BIOS screen should open to the hardware monitor showing temps
or fan speeds. The BIOS will say "press F1 to resolve the issue"
(like if no keyboard is detected as being plugged in).
And that would take you to the BIOS.
It's not a "fundamental" which is wrong. You definitely put
a stick of RAM in there, there is a GPU and a graphics connector,
the CPU is in the socket. Many things are CORRECT. The deal
is, something that was supposed to be right, is off a bit.
Failed PSU ? Not really. The BIOS is running! We have Power-Good.
The PSU could be out of spec a bit, but the one I have here, there
is no warning whatsoever about my +12V.
Some fans spin too slow, but with improper hardware monitor design,
surely that still isn't happening. I've had motherboards where
a 1200 RPM CPU fan is barely enough to keep the fan detection happy
(three or four wire CPU fan). Fan speed is measured by tau (time period)
per rotation, rather than by RPM as such. They take the inverse of the
measured time period, to get rotation rate.
Paul
Another fun one is that the mobo supports your CPU, but only on a later BIOS version, which you can't upgrade to because that needs a supported CPU to boot the BIOS updater.
That was mostly a problem on AMD socket AM4 systems, where AMD released new CPUs which were supported in existing mobos with a BIOS update. In some cases they would loan you a previous-gen CPU just some you could upgrade
the BIOS.
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
Of course, you CANNOT get the single beep loop, unless the stupid
CPU was perfectly fine in its installation. You need to run BIOS
code, to make the beeping sound!
Another fun one is that the mobo supports your CPU, but only on a later BIOS version, which you can't upgrade to because that needs a supported CPU to boot the BIOS updater.
That was mostly a problem on AMD socket AM4 systems, where AMD released new CPUs which were supported in existing mobos with a BIOS update. In some cases they would loan you a previous-gen CPU just some you could upgrade
the BIOS.
Not heard of that happening with Intel, but worth checking the BIOS version (maybe there's a sticker?) and that it supports your CPU.
If the thermals are wrong, I'd expect it to behave for a short while from cold before the problems start. So even a CPU with no fans, no heatsink should show signs of life, even if it keels over rapidly.
It's possible there's fan detection but I'd have thought there would be
signs of life before it moaned? (maybe you have a watercooler not run off the fan header?)
Theo
Theo wrote:
Another fun one is that the mobo supports your CPU, but only on a later BIOS >> version, which you can't upgrade to because that needs a supported CPU to
boot the BIOS updater.
That was mostly a problem on AMD socket AM4 systems, where AMD released new >> CPUs which were supported in existing mobos with a BIOS update. In some
cases they would loan you a previous-gen CPU just some you could upgrade
the BIOS.
Some motherboards can upgrade their own BIOS without even a CPU installed (I've never had one, I believe they have a dedicated USB port and "flasback" button for this).
On Mon, 8/5/2024 1:43 PM, Theo wrote:
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
Of course, you CANNOT get the single beep loop, unless the stupid
CPU was perfectly fine in its installation. You need to run BIOS
code, to make the beeping sound!
Another fun one is that the mobo supports your CPU, but only on a later BIOS >> version, which you can't upgrade to because that needs a supported CPU to
boot the BIOS updater.
That was mostly a problem on AMD socket AM4 systems, where AMD released new >> CPUs which were supported in existing mobos with a BIOS update. In some
cases they would loan you a previous-gen CPU just some you could upgrade
the BIOS.
Not heard of that happening with Intel, but worth checking the BIOS version >> (maybe there's a sticker?) and that it supports your CPU.
According to the CPUSupport table at Asus, the 12400 is supported by "All" BIOS
versions. It's the 14xxx processors (not initially expected by a 12th+13th gen >motherboard), that need a BIOS update, with the usual issue of using a 12th+13th
gen processor to do the update, then plug in the 14xxx processor.
When my 5600G AMD fouled up that way on its motherboard, there was no response,
but on a hunch, I assumed there was a BIOS issue. (Because there was no other >logical thing I could think of to cause the symptoms.) There was a button on >the I/O plate for that, but I think that needs a CPU in the socket to work. >It's not a microcontroller based programmer like on my 4930K machine. The 4930K
machine, you can reflash it, as it comes out of the box (no CPU, no RAM).
If the thermals are wrong, I'd expect it to behave for a short while from
cold before the problems start. So even a CPU with no fans, no heatsink
should show signs of life, even if it keels over rapidly.
It's possible there's fan detection but I'd have thought there would be
signs of life before it moaned? (maybe you have a watercooler not run off >> the fan header?)
Theo
The motherboards have THERMTRIP, which deasserts PS_ON# and the fans go off. >About 20C above the throttle temperature. A CPU can shoot up to 200C in
a few seconds, without a heatsink. At least the Athlons could, and the >processor-based scheme used today, has pretty well instantaneous response
and does not rely on any software to flick the THERMTRIP. The solution long >ago, relied on software, and the BIOS could "crash" before it could
turn off the power. Integrating the solution fixed that.
Back in the old days, a substrate diode was provided, and the rest of
it was "left to your imagination". The SuperIO hardware monitor has diode-mode,
and connecting the substrate diode, allowed the BIOS to check the silicon die >temperature. But the temperature could shoot up so fast on an Athlon,
the BIOS could crash just as it was about to make another SuperIO measurement.
The next step, was a small company made a temperature monitor in a
14+ pin or so (Attansic ATTP3) chip. And that might have had a register or an option
for a couple temperatures. My motherboard had one of those (it was
part of acceptance for a motherboard, no IC, no way I would buy it).
In the modern era, a utility shows a modern CPU has 19 sensors, and
those can be tied into the THERMTRIP.
The BIOS tends to loop on one core. The other machine with the 5950X,
it draws 115 watts at BIOS level, 224 watts flat out. Idle is 36W.
In the BIOS then, it runs hotter than in OS Idle. The BIOS conditions
are more stressful than an idle OS. There isn't a particular reason
the UEFI BIOS must be written that way, but those are the symptoms.
The motherboards now, are under closed-loop control, and as long
as the BIOS can measure something, there is generally code to control >operation to observe limits. First, video cards got a closed-loop
control system. Motherboards eventually followed the lead of video cards.
In this example, the machine is now power limited, and the indicators
are turning red, and the cores aren't close to the 5GHz they may run
if powered on a solo mission. The CPU might be 60C, but if there is
an inadequate cooler, the CPU won't go over 90C. This is using an air cooler. >AMD recommends water cooling.
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/pLsp6jgm/Install-Ryzen-Master-To-Watch-Params.gif
The temperature of VCore, is kept private to the SMPS controller.
It would be really nice if the info were public, and visible
in a hardware monitor. A reviewer claims the heatsink surface
temperature is 65C, and the MOSFET is around 90C, on the
motherboard across from me. Some others, the MOSFET is 110-115C
(out of 150C max). It won't go into thermal runaway because...
well, the controller is supposed to turn it down as it runs away.
I suppose the heatsinks they fit them with, are for "show", not "go".
One I was looking at yesterday, had no heatsinks at all. Let's hope
that was a DRMOS one (integrated temperature sensor inside each DRMOS).
The DRMOS ones, they don't have to share the current equally, and
the controller can turn a hot one down a bit. Do that enough, that
affects the regulation and ripple.
Paul
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