My main Win PC is offline and uses Win 10. Therefore, occasionally I
have used the WSUS tool to update it. I downloaded the latest version
of the tool today and specified the 1909 update along with frameworks, security, etc. All proceeded well and it looks like several GB of files
were downloaded. I started the update tool from among the downloaded
files. I had the chance to select frameworks and a couple of other
things, but I noticed that the 1909 update was not listed. Once the
updates were complete, I checked Win and still at 1809. Ideas for the
remedy would be welcome and thanks in advance.

bill

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Bill S Dimetto <dimettoandsons@wired.com> wrote:

My main Win PC is offline and uses Win 10. Therefore, occasionally I
have used the WSUS tool to update it. I downloaded the latest
version of the tool today and specified the 1909 update along with frameworks, security, etc. All proceeded well and it looks like
several GB of files were downloaded. I started the update tool from
among the downloaded files. I had the chance to select frameworks
and a couple of other things, but I noticed that the 1909 update was
not listed. Once the updates were complete, I checked Win and still
at 1809. Ideas for the remedy would be welcome and thanks in
advance.

What does "WSUS tool" mean?
- WSUS Offline (https://wsusoffline.net/)
- WSUS Offline CE (https://gitlab.com/wsusoffline/wsusoffline/-/releases/12.4_CommunityEdition)
- Or, a Microsoft WSUS server in your domain/network. I can't help if
you're using a WSUS server (never used one nor maintain one).

The WSUS Offline project was discontinued. There haven't been updates
for quite a while to support later editions of various Windows versions.
You have to instead use the version of WSUS that got picked up by some community.

https://gitlab.com/wsusoffline/wsusoffline/-/releases/12.4_CommunityEdition

When the original author of WSUS dropped working on it, I dropped using
it. No idea if the community edition is getting updated.

When a later version of WSUS notes that it dropped support of old
versions of Windows, you have to download and use an older version of
WSUS that did support the old Windows version. However, just because
you have an old version of WSUS that could retrieve the old updates from Microsoft WU catalog for an old version of Windows does not mean
Microsoft still has the updates in the catalog for the old Windows
version.

Windows 10 1909 support was dropped back on May 11, 2021. Once dropped, Microsoft may stop providing the old files in their WU catalog. That's
why you had to periodically run WSUS Offline, even keeping older
versions of it, so YOU had the update files. Each version of WSUS
Offline get puts in a different folder, and WSUS Offline eventually
itself drops older versions of Microsoft-ware, so if you need the older
stuff then you keep the folders for the older versions of WSUS Offline
after it did its downloads back then.

I haven't tried it, but perhaps you could use an .iso file created by
the Media Creation Tool (MCT). You have MCT create an ISO image file
for you. Whether you can run its setup to have it do an update instead
of a full install is something someone else will have to remark upon.
Online article suggest you can do an upgrade from an ISO.

Create Windows 10 installation media https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

So, why are you using WSUS Offline if your intent is to upgrade your
current Windows 10 installation to the latest build? Why not use the WU
Client to update Windows? Yes, you have to go online, but you have to
go online with WSUS Offline, too, to have it get the updates. Or are
you trying to update to the 1909 build instead of the latest 22H2 build?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 10/31/2024 7:32 PM, Bill S Dimetto wrote:

On 10/31/24 4:18 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:

Bill S Dimetto wrote on 10/31/24 1:36 AM:

My main Win PC is offline and uses Win 10.  Therefore, occasionally I have used the WSUS tool to update it.  I downloaded the latest version of the tool today and specified the 1909 update along with frameworks, security, etc.  All proceeded well

and it looks like several GB of files were downloaded.  I started the update tool from among the downloaded files.  I had the chance to select frameworks and a couple of other things, but I noticed that the 1909 update was not listed.  Once the
updates were complete, I checked Win and still at 1809.  Ideas for the remedy would be welcome and thanks in advance.

bill

Is there a reason for updating Win10 from a no longer supported version(1809) to a later no longer supported version(1909)?

Why not just update Win10 to 22H2 the most current release.
Note: When updating an almost 6 yr. old o/s(1809) the updating with 22H2 media(USB, mounted ISO, etc.) is likely to not be a direct update to 22H2 latest released LCU.
  - i.e. Pre-requisite and prior minimum LCU, SSU, Windows Update engine, WinRE etc. will be necessary for updating - which usually means additional and necessary KB's will be offered and need to be installed before updating to the latest 22H2

version/build.

Ok, I was not aware there was such a version.  I thought 1909 was the last updated Win 10 version.  Can this update be done via the WSUS tool?  The PC is offline so not sure if WinRE or the others would work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_version_history

Summary winver.exe

1809 October 2018 Update 17763
1903 19H1 May 2019 Update 18362
1909 19H2 November 2019 Update 18363
2004 20H1 May 2020 Update 19041
20H2 20H2 October 2020 Update 19042
21H1 21H1 May 2021 Update 19043
21H2 21H2 November 2021 Update 19044
22H2 22H2 2022 Update 19045

Media is available here. If you run this link from WinXP or from Linux,
then the MediaCreationTool is not an option and a pair of direct download
links to ISO files are created. The link URLs are valid for 24 hours.
There is no point in me creating these, because you might need a
different country or language. You can see in the sample URLs I've posted,
you are receiving 22H2.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows10

https://software.download.prss.microsoft.com/dbazure/Win10_22H2_English_x64v1.iso?t=...

https://software.download.prss.microsoft.com/dbazure/Win10_22H2_English_x32v1.iso?t=...

On the target machine, copy the ISO file to, say, the Downloads folder.
In explorer, "open" the file. The right-click context menu would
say "mount" if you didn't have Imgburn loaded.

Alternately, you could try, from a Terminal. In attempting to "open" the
file this way, perhaps Imgburn binding to the file type, will be avoided.
The downloaded files can be larger than a single layer DVD, which is
why the word "DVD" is not a part of this procedure. We're doing an Upgrade Install using an ISO file instead.

cd Downloads
explorer ./Win10_22H2_English_x64v1.iso

and maybe that will create the "virtual DVD" drive desired. Look in the
File Explorer window for a new virtual DVD drive. The virtual DVD drive
will not survive a reboot, which is just fine during the Upgrade sequence, since the Upgrade does not refer to the DVD, after the first reboot.

On the virtual DVD drive, locate "Setup.exe" and double click it.
This will do an Upgrade Install of 22H2. It will keep your applications
and user data. You need sufficient remaining space on the C: drive,
for the Upgrade Install to have enough space. This could be anywhere
from 20GB of space to 85GB of space (depends on size of hiberfil.sys created).

Now, you're at 19045.xxx release .

On the C: drive, will be C:\Windows and C:\Windows.old .

The latter directory could be 20GB or more in size. Not only
does it have a copy of the old Windows folder, it also has
copies of a few programs removed during the upgrade. If you needed
to revert the upgrade (or if the process rolls back because of
a compatibility issue), the Windows.old directory provides sufficient
materials to support the rollback.

Let's say, the winver.exe now reports "19045.1", then
you're missing a number of updates. One of the update types,
is a security issue with a certificate in the UEFI BIOS, something
which has been revoked, and is used for secure boot of WinRE.
The size of the Recovery partition (alternate boot OS for emergencies),
that partition is too small for the necessary patch, and will cause
all sorts of "failure" messages during Windows Update. Much of the
rest of the update process now, *when you plug in the machine*,
should work without incident, because a 19045.xxx machine is still
in support. There could be Servicing Stack Updates, regular Cumulative Updates, and so on, to install. The DoSVC cache on another machine, is unlikely
to contribute much in the way of bandwidth reduction, during the Windows 10 update download process.

WSUSOffline appears to have stopped at 1909, so pulling updates
from microsoft.com with that tool, is not going to take the place
of *plugging in* today. So *plug in* and finish the job.

The license status of the machine, whether you're inside a VirtualBox VM,
these can influence how Windows Update behaves when you *plug in* .

Good luck.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 11/1/2024 12:37 AM, Bill S Dimetto wrote:

Thanks, but looks pretty major.  I think I'll do a full back up first just in case things don't turn out well.  Also, I wonder if there's any real advantage in upgrading from what I have now, 1809, to the last update? 
That PC hardly ever goes online and the software seldom changes on it.

Agreed. I forgot to put that paragraph in, about the backup step.

I recommend one of the third-party backups, Macrium, AOMEI, Easeus
free [Full] backups for a safety backup. While Windows has its
own backup routine, you need to practice with that to have any
confidence in it (it's one strange squirrel). You can store the
backup on an external drive, and unplug the external before starting
the Upgrade Install.

Commercial backups, the backup is likely stored in a single file,
so you "can't lose parts of it" by accident. The commercial ones
also support "verify", which is a way of checking the CRC of
the file at any future time. This checks that nothing got
corrupted while you were shifting it between file shares or whatever.
I once had two backups corrupted by bad machine RAM, and the
Verify warned me something was broken.

I generally only recommend that the OS drive be present during
an OS installation procedure. This prevents "splatter" or damage,
or unintentional coupling to any other disk drive. These are
general rules of thumb that can be applied to any situation,
even Linux. I once had a Linux distro, wipe the other Linux
OSes off a drive -- too funny. A backup would have helped.

*******

There really isn't any difference between

hardly ever goes online

absolutely NEVER goes online

A side-lined machine can act as a virus reservoir, serving
to infect media plugged into it. Or in the case of network
worms, if the machine is connected to the LAN for some reason,
a worm could pass from one machine to another.

You have to remember who your opponents are. Maybe at the current
time, the ransomware people are more interested in hospitals,
than punters. Maybe the attack spectrum is pretty muted at the moment.
But if a nation state actor makes malware, it's going to get
into everything. You should still do your best to make the
machine at least "nominally" secure. Have that recent signature
definitions installed.

Take my (sampling of) machine collection:

motherboard with E7500 CPU - 2MB/sec file compression rate (can test AGP and PCIe cards)
Optiplex 780 E8400 CPU - 3MB/sec file compression rate
Daily driver Zen3 - 25MB/sec file compression rate
Strongest machine Zen3 - 50MB/sec file compression rate

A lot of machines are going to need to be broken, before
I will be using the Optiplex (slower). But the Optiplex right now
does have 22H2 installed. I had to install a video card
from the junk room, as 22H2 needs better than GMA 3500 graphics :-)
If I seriously wanted to use the machine (switch to it as daily
driver) , then I would be doing Windows Update to bring
in about eight months worth of updates. The machine is not
in the room, is not on a table, has to be set up to use it.
I don't plan on lifting it onto a table every 31 days,
for updates :-)

And my track record is, I have had two broken machines before,
and needed a *third* machine to dial out for help. This
does not happen too often, but you get the idea. I might need
to connect that Optiplex... about once every ten years.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 1 Nov 2024 01:48:34 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

Commercial backups, the backup is likely stored in a single file,
so you "can't lose parts of it" by accident. The commercial ones
also support "verify", which is a way of checking the CRC of
the file at any future time. This checks that nothing got
corrupted while you were shifting it between file shares or whatever.
I once had two backups corrupted by bad machine RAM, and the
Verify warned me something was broken.

Right alongside the Verify function, I've wondered why they don't provide a Repair function, since it would be so easy to do. The Quickpar usage model comes
to mind, and speaking of Quickpar, anyone can use it to verify (and repair) any file or set of files. Still, it would be nice if Macrium, for example, just offered a similar functionality as part of the backup dialogue.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 11/1/2024 9:41 AM, Char Jackson wrote:

On Fri, 1 Nov 2024 01:48:34 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

Commercial backups, the backup is likely stored in a single file,
so you "can't lose parts of it" by accident. The commercial ones
also support "verify", which is a way of checking the CRC of
the file at any future time. This checks that nothing got
corrupted while you were shifting it between file shares or whatever.
I once had two backups corrupted by bad machine RAM, and the
Verify warned me something was broken.

Right alongside the Verify function, I've wondered why they don't provide a Repair function, since it would be so easy to do. The Quickpar usage model comes
to mind, and speaking of Quickpar, anyone can use it to verify (and repair) any
file or set of files. Still, it would be nice if Macrium, for example, just offered a similar functionality as part of the backup dialogue.

The tool did not support Repair at one time, but
now it has a Repair function. I don't know any more
about it than that.

To do a good job of a Repair function, could mean abandoning
backward compatibility on the format. The backup could, at
a minimum, have one hash for the entire (2TB) backup file,
which leaves little syndrome for correction. If you add too many
hash calcs, the program would slow down too much (half speed).

On the other hand, it could have ten percent overhead Reed Solomon,
just as a random example of a corrector.

The problem with Par2, was it wasn't mathematically sound.
Some samples had "matrix sensitivity" -- the scheme uses a
sparse matrix, and if two lines in the matrix are very similar,
this can cause problems. I did not observe this myself, but
one of the people working on PAR at the time, made the claim
it had something to do with matrix math.

What I didn't understand at the time, is why a user could not
do a Par2 method, then do some "test restores" to see if they
exhibited sensitivity or not. Then maybe, you would leave the
PAR result as is on the media, if it isn't screwing up. I don't know
how fleeting the failure symptoms are with that.

Example for the audience (this is from memory, and is likely wrong)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 PAR_BLK PAR_BLK

You make some parity blocks, based on separate blocks of source material.

Later, if some are lost to corruption (such as two of your
CDs rotted out of a set of nine CDs), then as long as
any seven of the nine items are available...

1 2 3 6 7 PAR_BLK PAR_BLK

you can compute the original set, which is:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

In the example, if three blocks go missing of nine, you're screwed.

There are various ways to slice your data, but I don't
remember the details, as for the most part the idea
was abandoned on the news the math wasn't working "perfectly".

There are some hardware failure modes in a computer, that
cannot be fixed under any circumstances. My detection of
trouble via Verify, only worked because the "problem" was in
the perfect place to detect it. There could be other fault
causes, that Verify would not pick up. (Your data would
be recorded in a corrupted state and all the checksums
would be good as they used the corrupted data in the calc.)

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)