On 13/11/2024 14:06, Newyana2 wrote:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/12/24294454/microsoft-edge-chrome-tabs-prompt-trick

 MS trying to force people to Edge while taking settings from Chrome.
... In case anyone needed another reason to remove Edge.

Why remove Edge?
I have used both and although basically identical, I prefer Edge on
android and Chrome on Windows desktop.
They'll both use your details, as do all the other whatever they claim.

--
Jim the Geordie

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https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/12/24294454/microsoft-edge-chrome-tabs-prompt-trick

MS trying to force people to Edge while taking settings from Chrome.
... In case anyone needed another reason to remove Edge.

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On 11/13/2024 9:12 AM, Jim the Geordie wrote:

Why remove Edge?
I have used both and although basically identical, I prefer Edge on
android and Chrome on Windows desktop.
They'll both use your details, as do all the other whatever they claim.

I removed it because I don't want to use Microsoft spyware,
I don't want them controlling my browser, and as you can see now,
MS are being very pushy about it.

If you think all browsers "use your details anyway" then
it makes sense to use what works. But that view is simply
not true. It's ostrich logic: "Ah, there's no hope anyway so
I may as well not bother."

It is true that Google is tracking you nearly everywhere if you
don't make an effort to avoid it, regardless of what browser
you use. But with Firefox, NoScript and a HOSTS file you can have
much better privacy than with Chrome, which is Google's own
software. And Firefox is at least civilized enough not to hijack
your browser choice like Edge is doing.

I remember my mother, many years ago, when I warned her about
some toxic food. She answered, "Ah, if I listened to them I'd never
eat anything!" She was basically saying, "Shut up. I don't want to
know about this."

I can understand people who don't want to deal with it. But not
wanting to know about it, so that one can feel responsible while
being foolish, is simply prideful idiocy. "I heard there are lions out
there who might like to eat ostriches, but I don't believe it. I can't
see any in this hole where I keep my head."

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Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote in
news:vh2ib9$29am2$1@dont-email.me:

On 11/13/2024 9:12 AM, Jim the Geordie wrote:

Why remove Edge?
I have used both and although basically identical, I
prefer Edge on android and Chrome on Windows desktop.
They'll both use your details, as do all the other
whatever they claim.

<SNIP>

wanting to know about it, so that one can feel responsible
while being foolish, is simply prideful idiocy. "I heard
there are lions out there who might like to eat ostriches,
but I don't believe it. I can't see any in this hole where
I keep my head."

I typically use de-Googled Chromium...or I should say, never-Googled Chromium.

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On 11/14/2024 4:34 PM, DanS wrote:

I typically use de-Googled Chromium...or I should say, never-Googled Chromium.

I use that, too, when I can't use Firefox. Though I'm not clear
about exactly how ungoogled it is. There's still the "Google
and you" section of the settings. And the UngC settings are the
same limited, obfuscated selection that Chrome has. So maybe
it doesn't call home to Google? Hopefully. But I still only use
it for specific special cases and then delete history, cookies, etc,

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On Thu, 11/14/2024 9:55 PM, Newyana2 wrote:

On 11/14/2024 4:34 PM, DanS wrote:

I typically use de-Googled Chromium...or I should say, never-Googled Chromium.

   I use that, too, when I can't use Firefox. Though I'm not clear
about exactly how ungoogled it is. There's still the "Google
and you" section of the settings. And the UngC settings are the
same limited, obfuscated selection that Chrome has. So maybe
it doesn't call home to Google? Hopefully. But I still only use
it for specific special cases and then delete history, cookies, etc,

Chrome and Chromium are two different browsers.

Chromium = FOSS (the base code)
Chrome = Chromium + proprietary additions (closed source, binary only)

Google would not want the latter one source distributed, because
there could be API keys in there or the like.

A copy of Chromium is harder to find, at least I have
trouble trying to locate one when needed (there used to be
a capability, like Mozilla, to pick any older release, as you may
not want the latest one). While this looks promising, I'm not
going to stick a shovel in this right now.

https://www.chromium.org/getting-involved/download-chromium/

Chromium is the FOSS version. it is the "code base".
People outside Google can contribute to it.

Chrome is what you get, after the Google developers add
their tracking. Chrome is what you download from Google.

A copy of Chromium still has structures (like DOM storage),
which "arm" the web for doing naughty things. In a sense,
the Chromium design objective, of tracking people, don't
really diverge enough to cause Google any grief. DOM storage
is not exactly something the users were crying for (yet another
super-cookie).

But any additional mechanisms, the auto-tracking du jour
of the Google Corporation, for the most part that is
injected into Chrome, since the Chrome source (with
Google changes) is not available.

Whereas you can build Chromium from source if you want.
I believe I have done this here, because I was using it
to try to reproduce the USB stuttering problem in windows,
which the Chromium build environment can trigger.

You would think that running thousands of shell utilities
one after another (twelve copies of GCC in parallel is just
one example), would have no effect at all on a modern OS. However, on
modern Windows, the OS "slows down" the longer you do that
(that's what the Chrome developer in charge of optimizing
the build engine on Windows was complaining about).

"Real computers" do not slow down, when you run builds on them.
The machines have the same speed, every day, no matter how
many builds you have done.

Paul

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On 11/15/2024 12:13 AM, Paul wrote:

A copy of Chromium is harder to find, at least I have
trouble trying to locate one when needed (there used to be
a capability, like Mozilla, to pick any older release, as you may
not want the latest one). While this looks promising, I'm not
going to stick a shovel in this right now.

https://www.chromium.org/getting-involved/download-chromium/

Here's where I got it last:

https://chromium.woolyss.com/

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On 11/14/2024 10:10 PM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

On 13/11/2024 10:06 pm, Newyana2 wrote:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/12/24294454/microsoft-edge-chrome-tabs-prompt-trick


   MS trying to force people to Edge while taking settings from Chrome.
... In case anyone needed another reason to remove Edge.

Automatic start of Edge could always be disabled. I dunno whether it's changed...

disable edge preload - Google Search https://www.google.com/search?q=disable+edge+preload

Maybe. If someone plants a camera on your lawn, you're
free to adjust when it runs, if you understand the technical
details of how to do that. It makes more sense to me to just
remove the camera and prevent the sneak from putting it back.

I have no reason to allow Edge to be on my system,
any more than I want Cortana, Windows Search, Copilot, or
any of their "apps". It's fine that they offer them. It's not fine
that they repeatedly try to force them and make it difficult to
remove them.

It surprises me how far things have gone, that so many people
feel it's adequate that they can look up tweaks to undo Microsoft's
intrusions.

On the other hand, in some ways it hasn't changed all
that much. In the late 90s, Netscape and IE were both doing their
best to muck up the Registry when they were installed. And for a
long period, MS were deliberately breaking webpages if IE was not
used. As if to say, "You're using our OS so you have to use our
browser."

But of course, MS are not alone. They're not even the worst. They
seem downright civilized next to Apple and Google. These are just
from the past month:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/23/24277710/apple-goldman-sachs-cfpb-fine-charge-disputes-system

"The CFPB adds that for people shopping online, Apple only showed the interest-free financing option in Safari."

(The CFPB is that oasis of decency started by Sen. Elizabeth Warren,
which Trump will no doubt manage to shut down.)

https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/13/apple-faces-uk-icloud-monopoly-compensation-claim-worth-3-8-billion/

(Class action lawsuit against Apple for forcing high-priced iCloud use.
Apple's defense is basically what you're saying -- that it's *possible*
for Apple customers not to use iCloud.

That's like the cartoon where Elmer Fudd buys house insurance
from Daffy Duck, while DD has his hand covering the fine print. It
was *possible* for EF to get a fair deal, yet it was nearly guaranteed
that he would not. As I recall, EF's house burned down, he gleefully
filed a claim, then DD pointed out that the policy was only valid on
July 4th between 4:05 and 4:09 PM, during a hailstorm and an
elephant stampede. Poor Elmer Fudd... there was no hailstorm. :)

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Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:

On 13/11/2024 10:06 pm, Newyana2 wrote:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/12/24294454/microsoft-edge-chrome-tabs-prompt-trick

MS trying to force people to Edge while taking settings from Chrome.
... In case anyone needed another reason to remove Edge.

Automatic start of Edge could always be disabled. I dunno whether it's changed...

disable edge preload - Google Search https://www.google.com/search?q=disable+edge+preload

FWIW, I've not experienced Edge starting automatically, nor prompting
(or forcing) to import Chrome tabs, or anything Chrome for that matter.

So far from the FUD, urban legends, scare mongering, etc. department.

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On Fri, 11/15/2024 7:39 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:

On 13/11/2024 10:06 pm, Newyana2 wrote:

https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/12/24294454/microsoft-edge-chrome-tabs-prompt-trick

MS trying to force people to Edge while taking settings from Chrome.
... In case anyone needed another reason to remove Edge.

Automatic start of Edge could always be disabled. I dunno whether it's
changed...

disable edge preload - Google Search
https://www.google.com/search?q=disable+edge+preload

FWIW, I've not experienced Edge starting automatically, nor prompting
(or forcing) to import Chrome tabs, or anything Chrome for that matter.

So far from the FUD, urban legends, scare mongering, etc. department.

I don't have Chrome on the machine, and that's as good a reason
as any, not to steal Chrome tabs :-)

And I am getting denied on a few sites now -- a site this morning,
no text would render in the pane, unless the page was running
on MSEdge (a Chromium clone). Pretty sad stuff.

And yes, MSEdge takes substantial real estate (use a SequoiaView or
a WinDirStat and see how many install carcasses it has on the machine),
and yes, it seems to be a startup item. But that doesn't mean
it opens a window on the machine, and neither is an "active icon"
shown for it.

It's part of the telemetry system, and it contributes info
for telemetry (visited links, my interest in Argyle Socks).

To kill MSEdge, if Task Manager had a PPID column in the display
this would be easy. Any tools that kill by name, should be able
to kill it. I use Process Explorer, and the indented display structure
shows which PID is the parent, kill the parent and all the children
disappear too. If you only kill a child process, it just forks
a replacement child process.

Paul

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