• Re: Microsoft stealthily installs Windows 10 update to nag you to upgra

    From sticks@21:1/5 to Joel on Wed Nov 13 16:37:57 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 11/13/2024 4:04 PM, Joel wrote:
    Face it, I posted this to COLA
    for a fucking reason, M$ nerd.

    Is the reason because all the other people there are fuckheads too?

    --
    I Stand With Israel!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Joel on Wed Nov 13 17:59:49 2024
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    NOTE: I removed comp.os.linux.advocacy in my reply since I consider that
    a flamers/trolls newsgroup as evidenced by Joel's "Winblows"
    comment.

    Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/microsoft-stealthily-installs-windows-10-update-to-nag-you-to-upgrade-to-windows-11-and-not-for-the-first-time

    "We should clarify that this won’t force a Windows 11 upgrade on a
    Windows 10 PC which isn’t compatible with the stricter requirements
    for the newest OS – but it’ll likely continue to nag you about
    upgrading (for your own good, Microsoft would obviously argue)."

    So, uh, just disable TPM, if your computer is eligible, but you don't
    want the forced upgrade? Did TechRadar's staff already forget that
    fiasco in 2021, when they teased Win11 with a borked utility that told
    me, having a *brand new* Win10 PC, that I couldn't upgrade, not
    bothering to say if I turned on TPM, that'd resolve it? Just unreal,
    how stupid the Winblows world is.

    Or, in BIOS, disable the Intel PTT (Platform Trust Technology) which is
    built into the BIOS firmware to emulate a hardware TPM module. Intel
    PTT is an integrate TPM in the BIOS versus using a descete TPM module.
    AMD also has their own version of PTT (aka fTPM) in BIOS. If you do
    have a discrete TPM module, you probably can disable its access in the
    BIOS settings. I did that long ago, and Windows Update on Windows 10
    never offers Windows 11.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to sticks on Wed Nov 13 19:28:24 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Wed, 11/13/2024 5:37 PM, sticks wrote:
    On 11/13/2024 4:04 PM, Joel wrote:
    Face it, I posted this to COLA
    for a fucking reason, M$ nerd.

    Is the reason because all the other people there are fuckheads too?


    The thing is, the Windows community has been through this before.

    This isn't our first rodeo.

    As a point of policy, I *don't* make significant changes to the OS here.
    This is one of the few controls used to prevent "incidents".

    The GWX era taught us a few things.

    That program is more than a stopper, it's a gate control.
    You can set it to the version where you want the upgrades
    to stop at. So for example, if I was ready for a 24H2, I
    could set it to 24H2 with that program, and since we can never
    predict when an upgrade will occur, it then doesn't matter when
    it does happen. We've already agreed to it by enabling the control.

    If I don't want to switch from W10 to W11, just setting the
    version to W10, prevents it from switching.

    You can do all these things *without* that program. The flags
    are in the registry. A little regedit achieves the same result.
    The program exists, to make it easy for non-Regedit people to play.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From sticks@21:1/5 to Joel on Thu Nov 14 10:44:55 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 11/14/2024 9:42 AM, Joel wrote:
    sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

    Face it, I posted this to COLA
    for a fucking reason, M$ nerd.

    Is the reason because all the other people there are fuckheads too?


    You mean like ...


    I Stand With Israel!


    ... people who stand with Israel (!)? Go fuck yourself, kike.


    I don't know about the others, but you certainly are a fuckhead. A dumb fuckhead at that.


    --
    I Stand With Israel!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Joel on Thu Nov 14 12:14:20 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Thu, 11/14/2024 10:46 AM, Joel wrote:

    So, I have a question: will 24H2 magically be less bloated, by the
    time you agree to install it? Heh.


    It's a rolling release. It's not WinXP any more.

    Some things have release notes. But the release notes
    may not be gathered in a central spot for easy consumption.

    And with the A/B testing, individual users may not
    see the same features, rolled out at the same time.
    This makes Debug a bit of a challenge.

    Like my not having received 24H2 on W11 installs. Zero so far.
    They stopped the rollout at one point, because of WDC Host Managed
    Buffer NVMe related crashes. That's been fixed (by WDC).

    The Windows Insider install I update every once in a while, it
    had 24H2 preview on it for months. But if the features or behavior
    aren't the same as the release, it's not really good materials
    for debugging a release problem.

    There are a large number of services in Windows. If you use
    Process Explorer, many of those use zero cycles. They use RAM,
    but they do not speak, unless spoken to. They're not "suspended",
    which is another state. but they are also not polling or shining
    their own shoes.

    A few services do use cycles. The SearchIndexer as an executable,
    can be busy, because it listens to every file system change.
    The filter on it, would reject most of the events it reviews,
    which is kinda wasteful.

    Yes, there's a background load, but it is hard to measure, since
    Task Manager did not have extra digits of precision added to its display. Process Explorer will tell you Notepad is using 0.95% of the CPU.
    Task Manager would have you believe this is "0 %". As a consequence,
    without good measurement capability, you can't really complain too much
    about the dross down there. But a person using Process Explorer
    knows what is going on.

    *******

    And some things change, and you haven't a clue what is doing it.

    I noticed this yesterday, but did not stop to investigate, because
    I was looking for a hidden file, and needed the nfi.exe output to be
    able to find or list the file. Which works pretty well, considering
    nfi.exe is a Microsoft program from around the year 2000.

    [Picture] Check that shell behavior is the same (OK), it's a Notepad change

    https://i.postimg.cc/Bv0VSvWN/Patch-Tues-Win11-Notepad-Change-Nov2024.gif

    A separate issue, is pressing F5 is causing a date string to be copied into Notepad,
    when no such hot key is listed in the Notepad menu. Klever.

    And this is how it goes in Window. It has the "seasick motion"
    of a rolling release, without the release notes :-) Would anyone
    have mentioned "we added a hidden F5 easter egg for people who
    are concentrating on their work and might not notice" in a release note ?
    There is a feature in the Settings panel, which allows "hints to be injected into your activities" kind of thing. Maybe this setting allows it, but
    wouldn't it be good if the menu was updated to indicate the hot key
    value was occupied by such a thing ?

    Everyone thinks of it as a "corporate" OS, when it is actually
    a "hobby OS on steroids". You can see two guys in moms basement,
    and they're coming up for their Pizza Pops.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From sticks@21:1/5 to Joel on Thu Nov 14 11:23:00 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 11/14/2024 11:11 AM, Joel wrote:
    sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

    Face it, I posted this to COLA
    for a fucking reason, M$ nerd.

    Is the reason because all the other people there are fuckheads too?

    You mean like ...

    I Stand With Israel!

    ... people who stand with Israel (!)? Go fuck yourself, kike.

    I don't know about the others, but you certainly are a fuckhead. A dumb
    fuckhead at that.

    Unlike Netanyahu, bombing women and children to hell? Idiot.

    I certainly don't think your views on middle east issues has anything to
    do with windows news groups, or Linux for that matter. I don't feel the
    need to discuss this issue here. Neither do I see a need to compare you
    to anyone else. You're in a fuckhead class all your own, as you
    continue to prove.

    --
    I Stand With Israel!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From sticks@21:1/5 to Joel on Thu Nov 14 12:07:36 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 11/14/2024 11:56 AM, Joel wrote:
    I certainly don't think your views on middle east issues has anything to
    do with windows news groups, or Linux for that matter. I don't feel the
    need to discuss this issue here. Neither do I see a need to compare you
    to anyone else. You're in a fuckhead class all your own, as you
    continue to prove.

    Yeah, caring about Arab lives is like caring about nigger lives, in
    America, let's just elect TrumpHitler president, never mind that*he*
    killed 6 million Jews, in the past, now he's buddies with the kikes in killing sand niggers, FUCK THAT.

    Welcome to WWIII, mother fuckers.

    Ha! Red's not having a good week. Bye, Crump.


    --
    I Stand With Israel!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Yamn2 Remailer@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 15 00:04:51 2024
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 16:37:57 -0600, sticks <wolverine01@charter.net>
    wrote:

    On 11/13/2024 4:04 PM, Joel wrote:
    Face it, I posted this to COLA
    for a fucking reason, M$ nerd.

    Is the reason because all the other people there are fuckheads too?


    Stand with who?
    Genocidal butchers,nambla, pedos, organ stealers, racists, mass
    murderers of the worst kind.
    Understand it pollard, remember what took place to the rosenbergs!!
    your a khazar so NOT a Semite.
    Nuke kiewv (where your lot converted) and tel aviv.
    Say no to sayanim and aipac... shoot them and their families. https://imgur.com/a/Y2Y1Js0
    Bastard by race and nature.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Frank Slootweg@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Fri Nov 15 11:15:09 2024
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
    NOTE: I removed comp.os.linux.advocacy in my reply since I consider that
    a flamers/trolls newsgroup as evidenced by Joel's "Winblows"
    comment.

    Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/microsoft-stealthily-installs-windows-10-update-to-nag-you-to-upgrade-to-windows-11-and-not-for-the-first-time

    "We should clarify that this won?t force a Windows 11 upgrade on a
    Windows 10 PC which isn?t compatible with the stricter requirements
    for the newest OS ? but it?ll likely continue to nag you about
    upgrading (for your own good, Microsoft would obviously argue)."

    So, uh, just disable TPM, if your computer is eligible, but you don't
    want the forced upgrade? Did TechRadar's staff already forget that
    fiasco in 2021, when they teased Win11 with a borked utility that told
    me, having a *brand new* Win10 PC, that I couldn't upgrade, not
    bothering to say if I turned on TPM, that'd resolve it? Just unreal,
    how stupid the Winblows world is.

    Or, in BIOS, disable the Intel PTT (Platform Trust Technology) which is
    built into the BIOS firmware to emulate a hardware TPM module. Intel
    PTT is an integrate TPM in the BIOS versus using a descete TPM module.
    AMD also has their own version of PTT (aka fTPM) in BIOS. If you do
    have a discrete TPM module, you probably can disable its access in the
    BIOS settings. I did that long ago, and Windows Update on Windows 10
    never offers Windows 11.

    I hate to rain on Joel's (et al) parade, but the alleged 'nag' is even
    less intrusive - but also less useful - than the previous one (which
    also was just informational, not a nag).

    My (wife's) Windows 10 system is set to Dutch, so I don't have an
    exact cite, but the notification on the main Windows Update screen says something like:

    "(i) Prepare yourself for Windows 11 Check hardware X
    If you want to check if on this PC Windows 11 requirements
    can be run, check the
    hardware requiremments or go to the website
    of the manufacturer of your PC."

    Where 'Check hardware requirements' is a link to check the hardware requirements' and the 'X' will close the 'nag'.

    Bottom line: Much Ado About Nothing

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Frank Slootweg on Fri Nov 15 14:57:10 2024
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Fri, 11/15/2024 6:15 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
    NOTE: I removed comp.os.linux.advocacy in my reply since I consider that
    a flamers/trolls newsgroup as evidenced by Joel's "Winblows"
    comment.

    Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/microsoft-stealthily-installs-windows-10-update-to-nag-you-to-upgrade-to-windows-11-and-not-for-the-first-time

    "We should clarify that this won?t force a Windows 11 upgrade on a
    Windows 10 PC which isn?t compatible with the stricter requirements
    for the newest OS ? but it?ll likely continue to nag you about
    upgrading (for your own good, Microsoft would obviously argue)."

    So, uh, just disable TPM, if your computer is eligible, but you don't
    want the forced upgrade? Did TechRadar's staff already forget that
    fiasco in 2021, when they teased Win11 with a borked utility that told
    me, having a *brand new* Win10 PC, that I couldn't upgrade, not
    bothering to say if I turned on TPM, that'd resolve it? Just unreal,
    how stupid the Winblows world is.

    Or, in BIOS, disable the Intel PTT (Platform Trust Technology) which is
    built into the BIOS firmware to emulate a hardware TPM module. Intel
    PTT is an integrate TPM in the BIOS versus using a descete TPM module.
    AMD also has their own version of PTT (aka fTPM) in BIOS. If you do
    have a discrete TPM module, you probably can disable its access in the
    BIOS settings. I did that long ago, and Windows Update on Windows 10
    never offers Windows 11.

    I hate to rain on Joel's (et al) parade, but the alleged 'nag' is even
    less intrusive - but also less useful - than the previous one (which
    also was just informational, not a nag).

    My (wife's) Windows 10 system is set to Dutch, so I don't have an
    exact cite, but the notification on the main Windows Update screen says something like:

    "(i) Prepare yourself for Windows 11 Check hardware X
    If you want to check if on this PC Windows 11 requirements
    can be run, check the
    hardware requiremments or go to the website
    of the manufacturer of your PC."

    Where 'Check hardware requirements' is a link to check the hardware requirements' and the 'X' will close the 'nag'.

    Bottom line: Much Ado About Nothing


    Since I was running off a new W10Home to check for Copilot Icon,
    here is a picture of the cause and result of the Nag Block. I could
    use the fresh W10 install to invite this KB into the machine.

    [Picture]

    https://i.postimg.cc/7LN4syNt/KB5001716-Nag-Text-Block-Win10.gif

    That's a PC with W11 hardware support, no blockers or control programs.

    The thing it is doing in the picture, is 99% downloaded, and that
    update will cause the "you are missing updates" message to disappear.

    *******

    This is the PC running Linux. I fixed the cooling on it this morning
    by taking the intake grills off so it could get more air. Only the video
    card temperature sensor works, which reads 32C. The kernel
    this is running, is good for a lot of legacy win10 users going out of support. You can tell when a PC is starved for air, when the fan speed keeps rising
    the longer it is running.

    mint@mint:~$ inxi -F
    System:
    Host: mint Kernel: 5.15.0-91-generic x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: MATE 1.26.0
    Distro: Linux Mint 21.3 Virginia
    Machine:
    Type: Desktop System: ASUS product: N/A v: N/A serial: <superuser required>
    Mobo: ASUSTeK model: ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING WIFI II v: Rev X.0x
    serial: <superuser required> BIOS: American Megatrends v: 3607
    date: 03/22/2024
    CPU:
    Info: 16-core model: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X bits: 64 type: MT MCP cache: L2: 8 MiB
    Speed (MHz): avg: 2965 min/max: 2200/3400 cores: 1: 2878 ... 32: 2874

    Graphics:
    Device-1: NVIDIA GP107 [GeForce GTX 1050 Ti] driver: nouveau v: kernel
    Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.4 driver: X: loaded: modesetting
    unloaded: fbdev,vesa gpu: nouveau resolution: 1920x1080~75Hz
    OpenGL: renderer: NV137 v: 4.3 Mesa 23.0.4-0ubuntu1~22.04.1
    Audio:
    Device-1: NVIDIA GP107GL High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
    Device-2: AMD Starship/Matisse HD Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
    Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k5.15.0-91-generic running: yes
    Sound Server-2: PulseAudio v: 15.99.1 running: yes
    Sound Server-3: PipeWire v: 0.3.48 running: yes
    Network:
    Device-1: Intel Ethernet I225-V driver: igc
    IF: enp4s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx Drives:
    Local Storage: total: 253 GiB used: 12.7 MiB (0.0%)
    ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Lexar model: SSD NS100 256GB size: 238.47 GiB
    ID-2: /dev/sdb type: USB vendor: SanDisk model: Ultra size: 14.53 GiB Partition:
    ID-1: / size: 62.85 GiB used: 53.5 MiB (0.1%) fs: overlay source: ERR-102
    ID-2: /var/log size: 11.34 GiB used: 12.7 MiB (0.1%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sdb3 Swap:
    Alert: No swap data was found.
    Sensors:
    System Temperatures: cpu: N/A mobo: N/A gpu: nouveau temp: 32.0 C
    Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A gpu: nouveau fan: 0
    Info:
    Processes: 466 Uptime: 3m Memory: 125.7 GiB used: 2.06 GiB (1.6%)
    Shell: Bash inxi: 3.3.13

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Batz on Sat Nov 16 00:02:47 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 18:10:55 -0500, Batz wrote:

    The last time I tried Linux which was about 1.5 years ago it sucked
    monkey balls.

    You’re using the Internet, aren’t you? The Internet essentially runs on Linux.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Joel on Sat Nov 16 01:55:33 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 19:12:56 -0500, Joel wrote:

    even Apple's crap has Unix components.

    Not enough to count as a “real” *nix any more -- if it ever did.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Joel on Sat Nov 16 03:21:54 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 21:22:01 -0500, Joel wrote:

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    even Apple's crap has Unix components.

    Not enough to count as a “real” *nix any more -- if it ever did.

    I mean, it *can* function as such, not very readily ...

    Ken Thompson, one of the original Bell Labs crew that created Unix in the
    first place, and an Apple fan for many years, has given up on them and
    switched to Linux.

    That tells you all you need to know.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Frank Slootweg@21:1/5 to ldo@nz.invalid on Sat Nov 16 13:37:04 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10 Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 19:12:56 -0500, Joel wrote:

    even Apple's crap has Unix components.

    Not enough to count as a ?real? *nix any more -- if it ever did.

    I'm no Apple fan, but macOS isn't just *nix, i.e. 'unix'/'Unix', but
    actually UNIX.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification#Compliance>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zaidy036@21:1/5 to Joel on Sat Nov 16 10:49:10 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 11/15/2024 11:03 PM, Joel wrote:
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    even Apple's crap has Unix components.

    Not enough to count as a “real” *nix any more -- if it ever did.

    I mean, it *can* function as such, not very readily ...

    Ken Thompson, one of the original Bell Labs crew that created Unix in the
    first place, and an Apple fan for many years, has given up on them and
    switched to Linux.

    That tells you all you need to know.


    You're a fucktard of a nerd, dipshit. I already said that, in my
    post. Eat shit.


    You have such an eloquent way of expressing yourself.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Frank Slootweg on Sat Nov 16 15:34:33 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Sat, 11/16/2024 8:37 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    In alt.comp.os.windows-10 Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 19:12:56 -0500, Joel wrote:

    even Apple's crap has Unix components.

    Not enough to count as a ?real? *nix any more -- if it ever did.

    I'm no Apple fan, but macOS isn't just *nix, i.e. 'unix'/'Unix', but actually UNIX.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification#Compliance>


    Didn't it have some relationship to Carnegie Melon "Mach" ?

    Maybe it's just a microkernel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_%28kernel%29

    "Mach's derivatives are the basis of the operating system kernel
    in GNU Hurd and of Apple's XNU kernel used in macOS, iOS, iPadOS,
    tvOS, and watchOS."

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Paul on Sat Nov 16 21:46:23 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 15:34:33 -0500, Paul wrote:

    Didn't it have some relationship to Carnegie Melon "Mach" ?

    Maybe it's just a microkernel.

    Yes, Apple’s “macOS” (nee “OS X”) is built on a microkernel. That’s another reason it is inferior to Linux.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Frank Slootweg on Sat Nov 16 21:44:31 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 16 Nov 2024 13:37:04 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10 Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 19:12:56 -0500, Joel wrote:

    even Apple's crap has Unix components.

    Not enough to count as a “real” *nix any more -- if it ever did.

    I'm no Apple fan, but macOS isn't just *nix, i.e. 'unix'/'Unix', but
    actually UNIX.

    So it’s an official trademark licensee (the last one still standing). That doesn’t mean it works the way people expect when they think of “Unix”.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Joel on Sat Nov 16 20:09:56 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Sat, 11/16/2024 3:48 PM, Joel wrote:
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 11/16/2024 8:37 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    In alt.comp.os.windows-10 Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 19:12:56 -0500, Joel wrote:

    even Apple's crap has Unix components.

    Not enough to count as a ?real? *nix any more -- if it ever did.

    I'm no Apple fan, but macOS isn't just *nix, i.e. 'unix'/'Unix', but
    actually UNIX.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification#Compliance>

    Didn't it have some relationship to Carnegie Melon "Mach" ?

    Maybe it's just a microkernel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_%28kernel%29

    "Mach's derivatives are the basis of the operating system kernel
    in GNU Hurd and of Apple's XNU kernel used in macOS, iOS, iPadOS,
    tvOS, and watchOS."


    All remarkable projects, to be sure. And yet nothing in existence has
    bested Linus Torvalds' ingenious kernel. Linux is the king of
    kernels.


    If you remember your history, the legacy MacOS used cooperative multitasking, which made it an unstable piece of crap. I used to use "G Finder" twice
    a day in MacsBug, in an attempt to save open documents before a reboot.

    Preemptive multitasking was the solution. Companies had to find "something"
    and there were already existing prototypes with the right ingredients
    for a solution.

    I have a copy of this in the house. I didn't use it very much, but
    it's an example of something that referenced the CMU work too.

    http://www.tenon.com/products/machten/

    https://web.archive.org/web/19970621064148/http://www.tenon.com/products/machten/

    "MachTen is the only Macintosh product that can turn your Macintosh into a complete
    Unix workstation. Based on BSD4.4 and the Mach kernel, MachTen brings the power of
    Unix to your desktop at an extremely attractive price point." OK :-)

    Even Linus is unlikely to have thought up everything that passed
    his desk. "Everybody copies everybody else, but just the good bits."

    Our OS had RPC. As a hardware designer, I used to write code and
    one of my little programming efforts was an exercise in using RPC.
    Well, we didn't invent RPC, and just copied it from someone else.
    Windows now, is so "married" to RPC, the OS cannot run without it
    being present.

    Paul

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Sun Nov 17 05:57:29 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 05:34:21 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 20:09:56 -0500, Paul wrote:

    Our OS had RPC. As a hardware designer, I used to write code and one of
    my little programming efforts was an exercise in using RPC.
    Well, we didn't invent RPC, and just copied it from someone else.
    Windows now, is so "married" to RPC, the OS cannot run without it being
    present.

    There are quite a few different RPC mechanisms around. There seems to be
    no “ideal” one. Was yours high-level or low-level? That’s the first major division between them (roughly).

    Oops, sorry, I misread that as “IPC”.

    Have you read Andrew Tanenbaum’s “A Critique Of The Remote Procedure Call Paradigm”?

    <https://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/Publications/Papers/euteco-1988.pdf>

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Paul on Sun Nov 17 05:34:21 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 20:09:56 -0500, Paul wrote:

    If you remember your history, the legacy MacOS used cooperative
    multitasking, which made it an unstable piece of crap.

    Preemptive multitasking was the solution.

    No, the problem was it didn’t have memory protection. The Amiga had preemptive multitasking, without memory protection, and it was just as “unstable a piece of crap”, if not more so.

    "MachTen is the only Macintosh product that can turn your Macintosh
    into a complete Unix workstation.

    Apple had A/UX some years before that.

    Our OS had RPC. As a hardware designer, I used to write code and one of
    my little programming efforts was an exercise in using RPC.
    Well, we didn't invent RPC, and just copied it from someone else.
    Windows now, is so "married" to RPC, the OS cannot run without it being present.

    There are quite a few different RPC mechanisms around. There seems to be
    no “ideal” one. Was yours high-level or low-level? That’s the first major division between them (roughly).

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  • From chrisv@21:1/5 to sticks on Sun Nov 17 16:14:53 2024
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11

    sticks wrote:

    You're in a fuckhead class all your own, as you
    continue to prove.

    +1

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