• How much latency do you add to torrents?

    From Oliver@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 6 21:31:59 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Windows, I go on VPN and then on the Tor browser (yeah, I know,
    redundant) and then I go to https://thepiratebay.org to find something.

    It doesn't matter what it is I find, but for a concrete example,
    let's say I search for The Anarchist Cookbook like this. https://thepiratebay.org/search.php?q=anarchist+cookbook

    That brings up a bunch of versions for that specific title.

    Let's say I choose to obtain the magnet for this version of that title. https://thepiratebay.org/description.php?id=74776443
    The Anarchist Cookbook 2.0: The Bomb Recipes by Nicki Lynne EPUB

    That magnet link is very long, so I'll put that link into the sig.
    What I do with the magnet link is save it in a text file for a while.
    For latency.

    But how long do you wait?

    How long of a latency do you think is a reasonable time delay?
    -- magnet:?xt=urn:btih:51787F2C1DDF398D7978773EA31A3D554573C9EA&dn=The%20Anarchist%20Cookbook%202.0%3A%20The%20Bomb%20Recipes%20by%20Nicki%20Lynne%20EPUB&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.opentrackr.org%3A1337&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.stealth.si%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%
    2F%2Ftracker.torrent.eu.org%3A451%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.bittor.pw%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fpublic.popcorn-tracker.org%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.dler.org%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fexodus.desync.com%3A6969&tr=udp%
    3A%2F%2Fopen.demonii.com%3A1337%2Fannounce

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  • From D@21:1/5 to Oliver on Sat Dec 7 11:17:39 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    Saving magnet links takes me under a second. Too quick to notice.

    In terms of torrents, what are some good torrent sites that are still
    working?

    I use https://1337x.to/, but are there any other good ones I should know
    about?


    On Fri, 6 Dec 2024, Oliver wrote:

    On Windows, I go on VPN and then on the Tor browser (yeah, I know, redundant) and then I go to https://thepiratebay.org to find something.

    It doesn't matter what it is I find, but for a concrete example, let's say I search for The Anarchist Cookbook like this. https://thepiratebay.org/search.php?q=anarchist+cookbook

    That brings up a bunch of versions for that specific title.

    Let's say I choose to obtain the magnet for this version of that title. https://thepiratebay.org/description.php?id=74776443
    The Anarchist Cookbook 2.0: The Bomb Recipes by Nicki Lynne EPUB

    That magnet link is very long, so I'll put that link into the sig.
    What I do with the magnet link is save it in a text file for a while.
    For latency.

    But how long do you wait?

    How long of a latency do you think is a reasonable time delay?


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  • From jetjock@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Sat Dec 7 13:26:42 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 11:17:39 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    Saving magnet links takes me under a second. Too quick to notice.

    In terms of torrents, what are some good torrent sites that are still >working?

    I use https://1337x.to/, but are there any other good ones I should know >about?

    For TV programs I use eztvx.to in addition to the two mentioned-1337 & piratebay.


    On Fri, 6 Dec 2024, Oliver wrote:

    On Windows, I go on VPN and then on the Tor browser (yeah, I know, redundant)
    and then I go to https://thepiratebay.org to find something.

    It doesn't matter what it is I find, but for a concrete example, let's say I >> search for The Anarchist Cookbook like this.
    https://thepiratebay.org/search.php?q=anarchist+cookbook

    That brings up a bunch of versions for that specific title.

    Let's say I choose to obtain the magnet for this version of that title.
    https://thepiratebay.org/description.php?id=74776443
    The Anarchist Cookbook 2.0: The Bomb Recipes by Nicki Lynne EPUB

    That magnet link is very long, so I'll put that link into the sig.
    What I do with the magnet link is save it in a text file for a while.
    For latency.

    But how long do you wait?

    How long of a latency do you think is a reasonable time delay?


    >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

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  • From D@21:1/5 to jetjock on Sat Dec 7 21:51:47 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Sat, 7 Dec 2024, jetjock wrote:

    On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 11:17:39 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    Saving magnet links takes me under a second. Too quick to notice.

    In terms of torrents, what are some good torrent sites that are still
    working?

    I use https://1337x.to/, but are there any other good ones I should know
    about?

    For TV programs I use eztvx.to in addition to the two mentioned-1337 & piratebay.

    Great! Thank you very much for the tip!



    On Fri, 6 Dec 2024, Oliver wrote:

    On Windows, I go on VPN and then on the Tor browser (yeah, I know, redundant)
    and then I go to https://thepiratebay.org to find something.

    It doesn't matter what it is I find, but for a concrete example, let's say I
    search for The Anarchist Cookbook like this.
    https://thepiratebay.org/search.php?q=anarchist+cookbook

    That brings up a bunch of versions for that specific title.

    Let's say I choose to obtain the magnet for this version of that title.
    https://thepiratebay.org/description.php?id=74776443
    The Anarchist Cookbook 2.0: The Bomb Recipes by Nicki Lynne EPUB

    That magnet link is very long, so I'll put that link into the sig.
    What I do with the magnet link is save it in a text file for a while.
    For latency.

    But how long do you wait?

    How long of a latency do you think is a reasonable time delay?


    >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<


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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Sat Dec 7 17:38:05 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 21:51:47 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote

    Saving magnet links takes me under a second. Too quick to notice.

    That's not what I had meant by latency.
    Copying & pasting a magnet link takes milliseconds at most.
    Then you wait.
    And you wait.
    And you wait some more.

    That's called "latency".

    You add random latency to the time BETWEEN when you grabbed the magnet.
    And the time you employed that magnet link inside a bit torrent client.

    Of course, you change your IP address between those two times also.
    But if there's is a short latency, they can easily figure which was you.

    You don't want them to figure out that it was the same person who grabbed
    the magnet who then immediately started torrenting the media.

    Latency puts distance (in time) between those two "related" events.
    It's the whole point of latency in the first place.

    In terms of torrents, what are some good torrent sites that are still
    working?

    https://thepiratebay.org has been working for me for twenty years or so. https://libgen.rs/ has been working for books and epubs for a while too.

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  • From jetjock@21:1/5 to Oliver on Sun Dec 8 09:26:04 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 17:38:05 -0700, Oliver <ollie@invalid.net> wrote:

    On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 21:51:47 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote

    Saving magnet links takes me under a second. Too quick to notice.

    That's not what I had meant by latency.
    Copying & pasting a magnet link takes milliseconds at most.
    Then you wait.
    And you wait.
    And you wait some more.

    That's called "latency".

    You add random latency to the time BETWEEN when you grabbed the magnet.
    And the time you employed that magnet link inside a bit torrent client.

    Of course, you change your IP address between those two times also.
    But if there's is a short latency, they can easily figure which was you.

    You don't want them to figure out that it was the same person who grabbed
    the magnet who then immediately started torrenting the media.

    Latency puts distance (in time) between those two "related" events.
    It's the whole point of latency in the first place.

    In terms of torrents, what are some good torrent sites that are still
    working?

    https://thepiratebay.org has been working for me for twenty years or so. >https://libgen.rs/ has been working for books and epubs for a while too.

    https://libgen.rs/ returns a "server not found" error.

    I've been using https://ebook-hunter.org/ and
    https://www.ebookhunter.net/ for ebooks.

    >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

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  • From D@21:1/5 to jetjock on Sun Dec 8 21:45:00 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Sun, 8 Dec 2024, jetjock wrote:

    On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 17:38:05 -0700, Oliver <ollie@invalid.net> wrote:

    On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 21:51:47 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote

    Saving magnet links takes me under a second. Too quick to notice.

    That's not what I had meant by latency.
    Copying & pasting a magnet link takes milliseconds at most.
    Then you wait.
    And you wait.
    And you wait some more.

    That's called "latency".

    You add random latency to the time BETWEEN when you grabbed the magnet.
    And the time you employed that magnet link inside a bit torrent client.

    Of course, you change your IP address between those two times also.
    But if there's is a short latency, they can easily figure which was you.

    You don't want them to figure out that it was the same person who grabbed
    the magnet who then immediately started torrenting the media.

    Latency puts distance (in time) between those two "related" events.
    It's the whole point of latency in the first place.

    In terms of torrents, what are some good torrent sites that are still >>>>> working?

    https://thepiratebay.org has been working for me for twenty years or so.
    https://libgen.rs/ has been working for books and epubs for a while too.

    https://libgen.rs/ returns a "server not found" error.

    I think it is just some temporary problem. I've used it successfully in
    the past. My three go tos for books are annas archive, libgen and z-lib.

    I've been using https://ebook-hunter.org/ and
    https://www.ebookhunter.net/ for ebooks.

    >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<


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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to Chris on Sun Dec 8 19:46:42 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 09:40:42 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote

    That's called "latency".

    Nope. That's called a delay.

    Take this random article on a privacy-based browser & check the words. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(network)

    Latency is used four times (specifically in the same way I've used it).
    Delay doesn't exist in that article. Delay doesn't even show up once.

    If you've never read privacy-related articles, you won't know that.
    Now you do.

    Nothing wrong with the word delay, mind you, but it's called latency when
    used in the manner that I used it but if you have cites, I'll look at them.

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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to jetjock on Sun Dec 8 20:00:24 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 09:26:04 -0600, jetjock <jetjock@unkown.com> wrote

    https://libgen.rs/ has been working for books and epubs for a while too.

    https://libgen.rs/ returns a "server not found" error.

    Maybe take any onion browser and try these for finding epubs online? https://library.lol/
    https://libgen.is/
    https://libgen.li/
    https://libgen.st/
    https://z-lib.is/

    I've been using https://ebook-hunter.org/ and
    https://www.ebookhunter.net/ for ebooks.

    Thanks for those two, both of which worked on an onion browser.
    I'll add them to the reference list when needing ebooks.

    The first is super slow on an onion browser. The second is faster.
    Others exist, but Anna's Archive is definitely one of the best.

    Still, the question about latency is still open and unanswered.

    When you use magnets, how much time do you let pass between the copying of
    the magnet (usually done with an onion browser) and the use of it?

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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Sun Dec 8 20:01:16 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 21:45:00 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote

    https://thepiratebay.org has been working for me for twenty years or so. >>> https://libgen.rs/ has been working for books and epubs for a while too.

    https://libgen.rs/ returns a "server not found" error.

    I think it is just some temporary problem. I've used it successfully in
    the past.

    Agreed. Almost every darkweb site goes in and out over time, where I agree
    that libgen.rs is temporarily offline when tested with an onion browser
    just now.

    My three go tos for books are annas archive, libgen and z-lib.

    Yes. I have the same experience as you do. I feel that Anna's Archive is
    one of the most comprehensive epub archives if a bit tricky to navigate.

    Others are https://www.base-search.net/, https://openlibrary.org/, https://www.tandfonline.com/, http://zlibrary.to/ and the onion site http://bookszlibb74ugqojhzhg2a63w5i2atv5bqarulgczawnbmsb6s6qead.onion/

    But they come and go. And come back. And go again. It's a revolving door.

    What do you do when it comes to setting the latency for magnet links?

    That is, when you copy a magnet link, how much time do you let pass before
    you use that magnet link which you copied, pasted in a bittorrent client?

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  • From D. Ray@21:1/5 to Oliver on Mon Dec 9 07:03:22 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    Oliver <ollie@invalid.net> wrote:
    On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 21:51:47 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote

    Saving magnet links takes me under a second. Too quick to notice.

    That's not what I had meant by latency.
    Copying & pasting a magnet link takes milliseconds at most.
    Then you wait.
    And you wait.
    And you wait some more.

    That's called "latency".

    You add random latency to the time BETWEEN when you grabbed the magnet.
    And the time you employed that magnet link inside a bit torrent client.

    Of course, you change your IP address between those two times also.

    Why though? Grab a magnet and download it using same IP.

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  • From D@21:1/5 to Oliver on Mon Dec 9 10:23:41 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Sun, 8 Dec 2024, Oliver wrote:

    On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 21:45:00 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote
    https://thepiratebay.org has been working for me for twenty years or so. >>>> https://libgen.rs/ has been working for books and epubs for a while too. >>>
    https://libgen.rs/ returns a "server not found" error.

    I think it is just some temporary problem. I've used it successfully in the >> past.

    Agreed. Almost every darkweb site goes in and out over time, where I agree that libgen.rs is temporarily offline when tested with an onion browser
    just now.
    My three go tos for books are annas archive, libgen and z-lib.

    Yes. I have the same experience as you do. I feel that Anna's Archive is
    one of the most comprehensive epub archives if a bit tricky to navigate.

    Others are https://www.base-search.net/, https://openlibrary.org/, https://www.tandfonline.com/, http://zlibrary.to/ and the onion site http://bookszlibb74ugqojhzhg2a63w5i2atv5bqarulgczawnbmsb6s6qead.onion/

    Thank you very much. Will check them out as well.

    But they come and go. And come back. And go again. It's a revolving door.

    What do you do when it comes to setting the latency for magnet links?

    That is, when you copy a magnet link, how much time do you let pass before you use that magnet link which you copied, pasted in a bittorrent client?

    In my case, I click on a magnet link, it is opened in transmission on my computer, and it immediately starts downloading.

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  • From jetjock@21:1/5 to Oliver on Mon Dec 9 09:49:35 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 20:00:24 -0700, Oliver <ollie@invalid.net> wrote:

    On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 09:26:04 -0600, jetjock <jetjock@unkown.com> wrote

    https://libgen.rs/ has been working for books and epubs for a while too.

    https://libgen.rs/ returns a "server not found" error.

    I found the same. It and https://libgen.is/, https://libgen.st/ return
    "server not found". https://libgen.st/ is still working.
    https://z-lib.is/ returns a black page with no ability to search.
    Anna's Archive also is working.

    Maybe take any onion browser and try these for finding epubs online? >https://library.lol/
    https://libgen.is/
    c
    https://libgen.st/
    https://z-lib.is/

    I've been using https://ebook-hunter.org/ and
    https://www.ebookhunter.net/ for ebooks.

    Thanks for those two, both of which worked on an onion browser.
    I'll add them to the reference list when needing ebooks.

    The first is super slow on an onion browser. The second is faster.
    Others exist, but Anna's Archive is definitely one of the best.

    Still, the question about latency is still open and unanswered.

    When you use magnets, how much time do you let pass between the copying of >the magnet (usually done with an onion browser) and the use of it?

    I use a VPN when downloading. I assume that this negates the need for
    worrying about latency? I've never been bothered by the digital cops.

    >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Mon Dec 9 16:41:02 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 10:23:41 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote

    That is, when you copy a magnet link, how much time do you let pass before >> you use that magnet link which you copied, pasted in a bittorrent client?

    In my case, I click on a magnet link, it is opened in transmission on my computer, and it immediately starts downloading.

    Thanks for answering the question as you're the first person to try.

    It's good to know what other people do.

    Of course, you're aware that if you obtain the magnet link via method 1 &
    IP address 1 - then when you use that magnet link via method 2 & perhaps IP address 2, the lack of latency allows the powers that be to correlate it.

    I get it if you're not worried about that correlation, which you must not
    be, which is fine - as that's one of the outputs I was hoping to
    understand.

    My one question to you is "why not wait a few hours?" in so much as the
    longer you wait, the less they can correlate the two related events.

    Note: I'm not chastising you. I'm just asking if you've considered the implications of adding latency or if you just don't care about the issue.

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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to D. Ray on Mon Dec 9 15:51:22 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Mon, 09 Dec 24 07:03:22 UTC, "D. Ray" <d@ray> wrote

    Of course, you change your IP address between those two times also.

    Why though? Grab a magnet and download it using same IP.

    I understand what the average person does, so let's all agree that
    the average person (who almost certainly doesn't understand the
    inherent advantages of random latency probably does both actions
    at the same time using the same IP address (VPN or not) for both.

    Action 1: Grab the magnet
    Action 2: Use the magnet

    And that's fine. But it's not "as private" as it could be.
    That's all.

    If you change the IP address between action 1 and action 2, it's harder for
    the powers that be to correlate the two actions to you precisely (VPN or
    not), and if you additionally add latency between action 1 and action 2,
    that makes it even harder for the powers that be to know it was you for
    both actions.

    Given you ask "why", notice the "cost" is almost zero for this added
    privacy. Note that using a different IP address has a cost of zero.
    And waiting a few hours or days also has a very minor cost close to zero.

    So, for a cost of almost zero, you get the benefit of a more difficult correlation that it was the same person performing action 1 & action 2.

    That's why. :)

    Having explained the why, I ask you (and others) how much latency you
    typically add between obtaining the magnet link & using that magnet link?

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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to jetjock on Mon Dec 9 16:40:46 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 09:49:35 -0600, jetjock <jetjock@unkown.com> wrote

    Anna's Archive also is working.

    Thanks for confirming as it's one of the best out there for epubs. https://annas-archive.org/

    When I open the Tor browser, I have it set to read from this file list.
    "https://librarygenesis.net/"
    "https://librivox.org/"
    "https://manybooks.net/"
    "https://openaccessbutton.org/"
    "https://openlibrary.org/"
    "https://pdfget.com/"
    "https://pdfgrab.com/"
    "https://scholar.google.com/"
    "https://sci-hub.ru/"
    "https://unpaywall.org"
    "https://www.academia.edu"
    "https://www.base-search.net/"
    "https://www.ebooks.com/en-us/free/"
    "https://www.feedbooks.com/catalog/public_domain"
    "https://www.free-ebooks.net/"
    "https://www.freeengineeringbooks.com/"
    "https://www.gutenberg.org/"
    "https://www.readanybook.com/"
    "https://www.researchgate.net/"
    "https://www.science.gov/"
    "https://www.tandfonline.com/"
    "https://zlibrary.to/

    When you use magnets, how much time do you let pass between the copying of >>the magnet (usually done with an onion browser) and the use of it?

    I use a VPN when downloading. I assume that this negates the need for worrying about latency? I've never been bothered by the digital cops.

    The main issue here is low-latency actions are more easily correlated.
    There are two actions which can be correlated even when you use a VPN.

    Action 1 is the action of obtaining the magnet link.
    Action 2 is the action of using the magnet link.

    I put a lot of time between those two actions.
    In addition, I put an IP address change between those two actions.

    But many people do not do both those steps (nor do they do either).
    I was curious specifically what people do for latency between the two.

    So far those who have responded haven't bothered to add latency.
    And that's fine.

    I just wanted to know what most people do so that I don't do that.

    By adding latency, I don't show up easily as the same person between the actions of action 1 and action 2 - which is why I decided to add latency.

    But I do understand that most people would probably not bother waiting.

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  • From D@21:1/5 to Oliver on Tue Dec 10 09:42:54 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, Oliver wrote:

    On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 10:23:41 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote
    That is, when you copy a magnet link, how much time do you let pass before >>> you use that magnet link which you copied, pasted in a bittorrent client? >>
    In my case, I click on a magnet link, it is opened in transmission on my
    computer, and it immediately starts downloading.

    Thanks for answering the question as you're the first person to try.

    You're welcome. =) I think perhaps the lack of answers is that people
    maybe did not understand the question, and I was uncertain myself. But now
    I think it is perfectly clear what the question is.

    It's good to know what other people do.

    Of course, you're aware that if you obtain the magnet link via method 1 &
    IP address 1 - then when you use that magnet link via method 2 & perhaps IP address 2, the lack of latency allows the powers that be to correlate it.

    I get it if you're not worried about that correlation, which you must not
    be, which is fine - as that's one of the outputs I was hoping to
    understand.

    My one question to you is "why not wait a few hours?" in so much as the longer you wait, the less they can correlate the two related events.

    This is easy! I live in a jurisdiction where pirating content is not
    illegal. It is illegal to spread content, making it available, but not to download it.

    If I would live in such a jurisdiction, and if it would be common that
    people are arrested or prosecuted, I most likely would rent a VM in a jurisdiction where pirating is legal, and then download from that VM and
    just download over scp to where I was living.

    Note: I'm not chastising you. I'm just asking if you've considered the implications of adding latency or if you just don't care about the issue.


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  • From jetjock@21:1/5 to Oliver on Tue Dec 10 09:43:37 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Mon, 9 Dec 2024 16:40:46 -0600, Oliver <ollie@invalid.net> wrote:

    On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 09:49:35 -0600, jetjock <jetjock@unkown.com> wrote

    Anna's Archive also is working.

    Thanks for confirming as it's one of the best out there for epubs. >https://annas-archive.org/

    When I open the Tor browser, I have it set to read from this file list.
    "https://librarygenesis.net/"
    "https://librivox.org/"
    "https://manybooks.net/"
    "https://openaccessbutton.org/"
    "https://openlibrary.org/"
    "https://pdfget.com/"
    "https://pdfgrab.com/"
    "https://scholar.google.com/"
    "https://sci-hub.ru/"
    "https://unpaywall.org"
    "https://www.academia.edu"
    "https://www.base-search.net/"
    "https://www.ebooks.com/en-us/free/" "https://www.feedbooks.com/catalog/public_domain" "https://www.free-ebooks.net/"
    "https://www.freeengineeringbooks.com/"
    "https://www.gutenberg.org/"
    "https://www.readanybook.com/"
    "https://www.researchgate.net/"
    "https://www.science.gov/"
    "https://www.tandfonline.com/"
    "https://zlibrary.to/

    When you use magnets, how much time do you let pass between the copying of >>>the magnet (usually done with an onion browser) and the use of it?

    I use a VPN when downloading. I assume that this negates the need for
    worrying about latency? I've never been bothered by the digital cops.

    The main issue here is low-latency actions are more easily correlated.
    There are two actions which can be correlated even when you use a VPN.

    Action 1 is the action of obtaining the magnet link.
    Action 2 is the action of using the magnet link.

    I put a lot of time between those two actions.
    In addition, I put an IP address change between those two actions.

    But many people do not do both those steps (nor do they do either).
    I was curious specifically what people do for latency between the two.

    So far those who have responded haven't bothered to add latency.
    And that's fine.

    I just wanted to know what most people do so that I don't do that.

    By adding latency, I don't show up easily as the same person between the >actions of action 1 and action 2 - which is why I decided to add latency.

    But I do understand that most people would probably not bother waiting.

    Since I have never been visited by the digital cops, I've always just
    made sure that my VPN was running before downloading the actual
    program. After reading what you have said about adding latency, I may
    start waiting between getting the magnet and the program. Thanks.

    >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<

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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Tue Dec 10 18:56:10 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 09:42:54 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote

    This is easy! I live in a jurisdiction where pirating content is not
    illegal. It is illegal to spread content, making it available, but not to download it.

    It's not so much pirating but just basic privacy.

    What if you happen to be gay, for example, and you downloaded gay movies.

    It's not illegal but you'd still want to have some anonymity when doing it.

    Anyway, the question has been fleshed out that there is value to adding
    random latency between the act of obtaining a magnet & the act of using it.

    The only question to be answered here is how much time most people wait.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to jetjock on Tue Dec 10 18:52:39 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 09:43:37 -0600, jetjock <jetjock@unkown.com> wrote

    Since I have never been visited by the digital cops, I've always just
    made sure that my VPN was running before downloading the actual
    program. After reading what you have said about adding latency, I may
    start waiting between getting the magnet and the program. Thanks.

    I feel good that you understood the value of artificially adding a random latency between when you obtain a magnet link and when you use that link.

    You might also want to consider a killswitch which removes the gateway.
    That protects you when the VPN drops (which happens, from time to time).

    LiquidVPN has a canonical killswitch batch file you can google to get.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From D@21:1/5 to Oliver on Wed Dec 11 10:40:55 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024, Oliver wrote:

    On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 09:42:54 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote
    This is easy! I live in a jurisdiction where pirating content is not
    illegal. It is illegal to spread content, making it available, but not to
    download it.

    It's not so much pirating but just basic privacy.

    What if you happen to be gay, for example, and you downloaded gay movies.

    In my part of the world, that's almost the default sexuality, so no one
    would blink if someone was known to be gay. In terms of privacy, GDPR
    makes it very difficult to utilize IP-logs without evidence of a crime, so having companies or IP-lawyers just browsing the IP logs of ISP:s is a
    complete nonstarter and could at worst end up costing the ISP:s 4% of
    their revenue, and various other fines and penalties.

    It's not illegal but you'd still want to have some anonymity when doing it.


    Anyway, the question has been fleshed out that there is value to adding random latency between the act of obtaining a magnet & the act of using it.

    The only question to be answered here is how much time most people wait.

    In my case, what I am more worried about than someone snooping through the
    logs of my ISP is the increasing monitoring and surveillance of communication/chat and the ever increasing camera surveillance and the
    crack down on opinions that are no in line with the goverment.

    I do chat about sensitive topics on encrypted platforms, so there I do
    take measures. I also keep a lot of sensitive discussions to in person,
    private meetings as well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to Chris on Wed Dec 11 10:34:05 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 07:52:57 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote

    What if you happen to be gay, for example, and you downloaded gay movies.

    Ignoring the latent homophobia, what on earth is a "gay movie"!? I didn't realise that gay people had their own film catalogue. If I watch one does that make me gay?

    You're not supposed to argue the analogy in detail - it's just an example. Please pick a *different* example if you don't like the example used.

    What example do you want us to use to portray that privacy is a good thing? https://duckduckgo.com/?q=examples+of+where+privacy+is+a+good+thing

    It's not illegal but you'd still want to have some anonymity when doing it. >>
    Anyway, the question has been fleshed out that there is value to adding
    random latency between the act of obtaining a magnet & the act of using it.

    No it hasn't. One person has maybe been persuaded by your paranoia around "them" spying on you based on no facts at all.

    I can see you don't like latency for some reason, but are you the same guy
    who argued that the word used in technical privacy discussions is "delay"? https://duckduckgo.com/?q=latency+versus+delay

    If that was you (and it might not have been you), then whoever that person
    was, knows absolutely nothing about the use of latency in privacy.

    If that was not you, you *still* show zero knowledge of the use of latency. Please read at least one article on latency *before* outputting a response.

    https://duckduckgo.com/&q=how+is+latency+used+in+privacy

    The only question to be answered here is how much time most people wait.

    You mean how much time people are willing to "waste".

    It's unfortunate that you show zero knowledge about the legitimate and well-verified use of latency in privacy so before you respond to this,
    please bring your knowledge level up somewhat from rock bottom nothing.

    Everyone has acknowledged no negative repercussions to their current behaviour. There's no need to be act any different.

    You need to know at least one something about latency to argue against it.

    Read at least one of the articles that result from a search on the topic. https://www.google.com/search?q=how+is+latency+used+in+privacy

    Please reference the article you read (so that I can read it also) when you respond, or there will be no reason to continue such a baseless discussion.

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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Wed Dec 11 10:34:09 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 10:40:55 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote

    What if you happen to be gay, for example, and you downloaded gay movies.

    In my part of the world, that's almost the default sexuality, so no one
    would blink if someone was known to be gay.

    You're not supposed to argue the analogy in detail - it's just an example.

    In terms of privacy, GDPR
    makes it very difficult to utilize IP-logs without evidence of a crime, so having companies or IP-lawyers just browsing the IP logs of ISP:s is a complete nonstarter and could at worst end up costing the ISP:s 4% of
    their revenue, and various other fines and penalties.

    If you feel that nobody (not even Google) is tracking you, then you are
    lucky in terms of where you live & how safe the government makes you feel.

    I'm not feeling as safe from tracking of my daily activities as you are.
    So I add latency between all my actions (where latency makes sense).

    It's not illegal but you'd still want to have some anonymity when doing it.

    Anyway, the question has been fleshed out that there is value to adding
    random latency between the act of obtaining a magnet & the act of using it. >>
    The only question to be answered here is how much time most people wait.

    In my case, what I am more worried about than someone snooping through the logs of my ISP is the increasing monitoring and surveillance of communication/chat and the ever increasing camera surveillance and the
    crack down on opinions that are no in line with the goverment.

    There are ways around that, one of which has been mentioned, which is to
    use a VPN, but other options exist that can be used on top of the VPN.

    Privacy-based proxy web browsers are probably the easiest way to do that.

    I do chat about sensitive topics on encrypted platforms, so there I do
    take measures. I also keep a lot of sensitive discussions to in person, private meetings as well.

    When chatting, latency can't easily be introduced, although the government
    has programs where they don't "chat" in real time - which employs latency.

    The question always was never whether latency is good or bad (as it's very
    well known to add to your privacy). The question was only of how much.

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  • From D@21:1/5 to Oliver on Wed Dec 11 22:03:28 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024, Oliver wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 10:40:55 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote
    What if you happen to be gay, for example, and you downloaded gay movies. >>
    In my part of the world, that's almost the default sexuality, so no one
    would blink if someone was known to be gay.

    You're not supposed to argue the analogy in detail - it's just an example.

    I think we can conclude that in that case, it was a bad analogy.

    In terms of privacy, GDPR makes it very difficult to utilize IP-logs
    without evidence of a crime, so having companies or IP-lawyers just
    browsing the IP logs of ISP:s is a complete nonstarter and could at worst
    end up costing the ISP:s 4% of their revenue, and various other fines and
    penalties.

    If you feel that nobody (not even Google) is tracking you, then you are
    lucky in terms of where you live & how safe the government makes you feel.

    I did not say that. Please be careful about what you assume I feel or
    think. What I am saying, is that given what I am browsing and reading, I
    feel that there is no problem and that the legal protection is adequate.
    This does _not_ go for all my online activity (see below).

    I'm not feeling as safe from tracking of my daily activities as you are.
    So I add latency between all my actions (where latency makes sense).

    This is good. To each his own, and horses for courses. Everyone lives in different countries with different pros and cons. If I would like in the
    US, I would be more paranoid about torrenting than I am living in europe.

    It's not illegal but you'd still want to have some anonymity when doing
    it.

    Anyway, the question has been fleshed out that there is value to adding
    random latency between the act of obtaining a magnet & the act of using
    it.

    The only question to be answered here is how much time most people wait.

    In my case, what I am more worried about than someone snooping through the >> logs of my ISP is the increasing monitoring and surveillance of
    communication/chat and the ever increasing camera surveillance and the
    crack down on opinions that are no in line with the goverment.

    There are ways around that, one of which has been mentioned, which is to
    use a VPN, but other options exist that can be used on top of the VPN.

    Privacy-based proxy web browsers are probably the easiest way to do that.

    I think this is the most user friendly option for regular people who do
    not have the state against them.

    I do chat about sensitive topics on encrypted platforms, so there I do take >> measures. I also keep a lot of sensitive discussions to in person, private >> meetings as well.

    When chatting, latency can't easily be introduced, although the government has programs where they don't "chat" in real time - which employs latency.

    Different threat model than torrents. This was to illustrate that for some
    uses I feel little need for privacy and for other uses I feel greater
    needs of privacy. Different tools for different use cases.

    The question always was never whether latency is good or bad (as it's very well known to add to your privacy). The question was only of how much.


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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to Chris on Thu Dec 12 15:32:27 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 21:26:00 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote

    I already picked apart the wikipedia article you provided in support of
    your erroneous terminology.

    Given this recommended search result to get you up to speed https://www.google.com/search?q=anonymity+latency+versus+delay

    Please pick one of these articles to discuss so that you can learn the difference between latency & delay in terms of networking anonymity.

    https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3664476.3664516
    Let the Users Choose: Low Latency or Strong Anonymity?

    https://freedom.cs.purdue.edu/projects/trilemma.html
    Strong Anonymity, Low Bandwidth Overhead, Low Latency - Choose Two

    https://apposite-tech.com/latency/
    Latency vs Delay

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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Thu Dec 12 15:32:05 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 22:03:28 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote

    This is good. To each his own, and horses for courses. Everyone lives in different countries with different pros and cons. If I would like in the
    US, I would be more paranoid about torrenting than I am living in europe.

    Well, the good news for USA torrenting & specifically for torrenting movies
    & particularly for torrenting current movies (where the DMCA matters), it
    turns out nobody has ever been successfully prosecuted who fought the case.

    Everyone *thinks* torrenting cases have been lost in USA courts.
    But none have (for those where the judge or jury decided the outcome).

    There are reasons for that but you first will need to show us a case in the
    USA where someone fought the charges and they lost when torrenting movies.

    (Whenever I challenge people to come up with the facts, they bring up
    different systems like Limewire - but torrenting is done differently.)

    Privacy-based proxy web browsers are probably the easiest way to do that.

    I think this is the most user friendly option for regular people who do
    not have the state against them.

    I would hate to have a TLA on my tail, so I will repeat the observation
    that, in the USA, nobody has ever been convicted of torrenting movies.

    If anyone thinks otherwise, then please cite a case where the defendant
    argued his case and the judge/jury found him guilty (as I'm well aware
    plenty settle out of court because they're worried of their reputation).

    When chatting, latency can't easily be introduced, although the government >> has programs where they don't "chat" in real time - which employs latency.

    Different threat model than torrents. This was to illustrate that for some uses I feel little need for privacy and for other uses I feel greater
    needs of privacy. Different tools for different use cases.

    I agree fully that torrents are completely different than chats, where, for torrents, there is no risk at all in the USA of being convicted since it
    has never happened.

    But it's expensive to fight a court case, right?
    And it could be embarrassing to even fight a court case, right?

    So lots of people settle out of court.

    But nobody in the USA has ever been convicted of torrenting (there was one
    set of cases which were overturned 'cuz the lawyers lied during the trial).

    Since there has never been a successful prosecution of torrenting of
    mainstream movies in the United States, the actual risk is rather low.

    But why bother being hauled off to court?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From D@21:1/5 to Oliver on Fri Dec 13 10:59:07 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Thu, 12 Dec 2024, Oliver wrote:

    Different threat model than torrents. This was to illustrate that for some >> uses I feel little need for privacy and for other uses I feel greater needs >> of privacy. Different tools for different use cases.

    I agree fully that torrents are completely different than chats, where, for torrents, there is no risk at all in the USA of being convicted since it
    has never happened.

    But it's expensive to fight a court case, right?
    And it could be embarrassing to even fight a court case, right?

    So lots of people settle out of court.

    But nobody in the USA has ever been convicted of torrenting (there was one set of cases which were overturned 'cuz the lawyers lied during the trial).

    Wow! Very interesting. I was not aware of that, so thank you for bringing it up.
    I've seen the occasional post on torrentfreak and given the US legal culture I was absolutely sure of it.

    Since there has never been a successful prosecution of torrenting of mainstream movies in the United States, the actual risk is rather low.

    But why bother being hauled off to court?


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Fri Dec 13 08:36:43 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:59:07 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote

    But nobody in the USA has ever been convicted of torrenting (there was one >> set of cases which were overturned 'cuz the lawyers lied during the trial).

    Wow! Very interesting. I was not aware of that, so thank you for bringing it up.
    I've seen the occasional post on torrentfreak and given the US legal culture I
    was absolutely sure of it.

    The reason is complex but it's simple also in that USA copyright law
    requires something like half a dozen or more tenets to be satisfied, every single one of which *must* be satisfied in order to be considered
    infringement.

    I'm no lawyer so don't bring this thread to your next deposition, but the
    way I understand it is that the prosecution needs to prove you (and only
    you - not someone in the house whom they don't know) *distributed* the
    entire copyrighted movie, in its near entirety, to a person or persons.

    There are plenty of other tenets which must be fulfilled, but that is the gotcha that explains why there has never been a successful USA case of copyright infringement via torrents (that was fought by the defendant).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From D@21:1/5 to Oliver on Sat Dec 14 13:12:01 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, Oliver wrote:

    On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:59:07 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote
    But nobody in the USA has ever been convicted of torrenting (there was one >>> set of cases which were overturned 'cuz the lawyers lied during the
    trial).

    Wow! Very interesting. I was not aware of that, so thank you for bringing
    it up.
    I've seen the occasional post on torrentfreak and given the US legal
    culture I
    was absolutely sure of it.

    The reason is complex but it's simple also in that USA copyright law
    requires something like half a dozen or more tenets to be satisfied, every single one of which *must* be satisfied in order to be considered infringement.

    I'm no lawyer so don't bring this thread to your next deposition, but the
    way I understand it is that the prosecution needs to prove you (and only
    you - not someone in the house whom they don't know) *distributed* the
    entire copyrighted movie, in its near entirety, to a person or persons.

    This is an interesting question, given that a lot of internet connections
    are household connections. I assume that the legal eagles get past this by simply shifting liability to the owner of the internet connection in case
    of trying to pin point exactly who it is in the household who committed
    the crime. But if in the US, they need the specific person, I can see how
    this might make things a bit more complicated.

    There are plenty of other tenets which must be fulfilled, but that is the gotcha that explains why there has never been a successful USA case of copyright infringement via torrents (that was fought by the defendant).


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Oliver@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Sun Dec 15 19:52:20 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 13:12:01 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote

    I'm no lawyer so don't bring this thread to your next deposition, but the
    way I understand it is that the prosecution needs to prove you (and only
    you - not someone in the house whom they don't know) *distributed* the
    entire copyrighted movie, in its near entirety, to a person or persons.

    This is an interesting question, given that a lot of internet connections
    are household connections. I assume that the legal eagles get past this by simply shifting liability to the owner of the internet connection in case
    of trying to pin point exactly who it is in the household who committed
    the crime. But if in the US, they need the specific person, I can see how this might make things a bit more complicated.

    I've read a dozen or so USA legal cases over time on torrenting and *all*
    of them require the person *distributing* the torrent to be identified.

    Not the ISP. Not the person who pays the bill. Not the people in the house.
    Not the cat. Not some guy sitting in a car outside the house. Nobody else!

    In the USA, copyright infringement of this type has to be proven beyond a
    doubt (by the judge or jury) to have been done by a specific named person.

    This is exactly why the DMCA sends letters to the ISP who then forwards
    those letters to the person paying the bill and leaves it at that.

    It's up to the person paying the bill to act on those DMCA letters.
    Or not.

    Depending on the jurisdiction and type of infringement, there are up to
    about a half dozen elements in the USA which *all must be proven* to
    satisfy the claim on copyright infringement and identifying the person is
    not even *one* of them because that's a right afforded to everyone on the
    USA on all crimes.

    https://fairuse.stanford.edu/law/us-code/u-s-copyright-act/copyright-infringement-and-remedies/
    https://www.minclaw.com/elements-copyright-infringement/ https://www.fourriverslaw.com/blog/2024/elements-of-copyright-infringement/ https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/infringement_%28of_copyright%29

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  • From D@21:1/5 to Oliver on Mon Dec 16 10:20:49 2024
    XPost: alt.privacy, alt.comp.issues.privacy

    On Sun, 15 Dec 2024, Oliver wrote:

    On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 13:12:01 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote
    I'm no lawyer so don't bring this thread to your next deposition, but the >>> way I understand it is that the prosecution needs to prove you (and only >>> you - not someone in the house whom they don't know) *distributed* the
    entire copyrighted movie, in its near entirety, to a person or persons.

    This is an interesting question, given that a lot of internet connections
    are household connections. I assume that the legal eagles get past this by >> simply shifting liability to the owner of the internet connection in case
    of trying to pin point exactly who it is in the household who committed the >> crime. But if in the US, they need the specific person, I can see how this >> might make things a bit more complicated.

    I've read a dozen or so USA legal cases over time on torrenting and *all*
    of them require the person *distributing* the torrent to be identified.

    Not the ISP. Not the person who pays the bill. Not the people in the house. Not the cat. Not some guy sitting in a car outside the house. Nobody else!

    In the USA, copyright infringement of this type has to be proven beyond a doubt (by the judge or jury) to have been done by a specific named person.

    This is exactly why the DMCA sends letters to the ISP who then forwards
    those letters to the person paying the bill and leaves it at that.

    Ahh, so that's how it works!

    It's up to the person paying the bill to act on those DMCA letters.
    Or not.

    Depending on the jurisdiction and type of infringement, there are up to
    about a half dozen elements in the USA which *all must be proven* to
    satisfy the claim on copyright infringement and identifying the person is
    not even *one* of them because that's a right afforded to everyone on the
    USA on all crimes.

    https://fairuse.stanford.edu/law/us-code/u-s-copyright-act/copyright-infringement-and-remedies/
    https://www.minclaw.com/elements-copyright-infringement/ https://www.fourriverslaw.com/blog/2024/elements-of-copyright-infringement/ https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/infringement_%28of_copyright%29

    Very interesting. Thank you very much for the links.

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