On 12/24/24 03:22 PM, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

Please followup-To alt.comp.os.windows-10. (Note this is not just a
Windows question, but I believe the Windows newsgroup is more
appropriate: perhaps there are other system's shrinking tool that could
help me here. Thanks for any ideas.)

I'm interested in installing a new operating system. Haven't decided
which yet---perhaps FreeBSD, perhaps GNU Guix. I've got 195 GiB free in
my c: drive plus 655 MiB unallocated which I was able to get from
shrinking the c: drive using the Windows 10 Disk Management tool.

Disk Management (how my storage looks right now)
https://prnt.sc/WZ1fF5S9ARJ1

Disk Management is not able to shrink more. It says it has been done
what it could with those 655 MiB.

https://prnt.sc/ez9O5JUVUVXv

I turned hibernation off, restarted and tried again. Same thing.
Looking at the defrag event in the application log, I find:

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
A volume shrink analysis was initiated on volume (C:). This event log
entry details information about the last unmovable file that could limit
the maximum number of reclaimable bytes.

Diagnostic details:
- The last unmovable file appears to be: \System Volume
Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
- The last cluster of the file is: 0x76e787e
- Shrink potential target (LCN address): 0x466119b
- The NTFS file flags are: ---AD
- Shrink phase: <analysis>

To find more details about this file please use the "fsutil volume
querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7}
0x76e787e" command. --8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

Using the fsutil command, I get:

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8--- C:\Windows\system32>fsutil volume querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7} 0x76e787e
Cluster 0x00000000076e787e used by ---AD \System Volume Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

Anything else I could try? I have not tried to use other system's
shrinking programs. Could they do a better job? Perhaps this is not
the best newsgroup to ask this question.

Delete all your trash.
Delete all restore points. Yeh, this one hurts when you want to play with the system.
Then try. I've had luck with this. Then make a new restore point when done.

Another option is to use a defrag tool or other utility that will let you see what is way out there
on the last sectors of that partition. Possibly a file you can move to another drive temp.

A last suggestion is to use gparted from any of a lot of rescue CDs or any bootable live Linux
system. You have to not be running Windows to run gparted and have gparted shrink the partition.

Please make an image of you drive! I've done this before with no issues, but Santa may not be on
your side.

--
Linux Mint 22, Cinnamon 6.2.9, Kernel 6.8.0-51-generic
Thunderbird 128.5.2esr, Mozilla Firefox 133.0.3
Alan K.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: comp.os.linux.misc

Please followup-To alt.comp.os.windows-10. (Note this is not just a
Windows question, but I believe the Windows newsgroup is more
appropriate: perhaps there are other system's shrinking tool that could
help me here. Thanks for any ideas.)

I'm interested in installing a new operating system. Haven't decided
which yet---perhaps FreeBSD, perhaps GNU Guix. I've got 195 GiB free in
my c: drive plus 655 MiB unallocated which I was able to get from
shrinking the c: drive using the Windows 10 Disk Management tool.

Disk Management (how my storage looks right now)
https://prnt.sc/WZ1fF5S9ARJ1

Disk Management is not able to shrink more. It says it has been done
what it could with those 655 MiB.

https://prnt.sc/ez9O5JUVUVXv

I turned hibernation off, restarted and tried again. Same thing.
Looking at the defrag event in the application log, I find:

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
A volume shrink analysis was initiated on volume (C:). This event log
entry details information about the last unmovable file that could limit
the maximum number of reclaimable bytes.

Diagnostic details:
- The last unmovable file appears to be: \System Volume
Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
- The last cluster of the file is: 0x76e787e
- Shrink potential target (LCN address): 0x466119b
- The NTFS file flags are: ---AD
- Shrink phase: <analysis>

To find more details about this file please use the "fsutil volume
querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7}
0x76e787e" command. --8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

Using the fsutil command, I get:

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8--- C:\Windows\system32>fsutil volume querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7} 0x76e787e
Cluster 0x00000000076e787e used by ---AD \System Volume Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

Anything else I could try? I have not tried to use other system's
shrinking programs. Could they do a better job? Perhaps this is not
the best newsgroup to ask this question.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> writes:

On 12/24/24 03:22 PM, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

Please followup-To alt.comp.os.windows-10. (Note this is not just a
Windows question, but I believe the Windows newsgroup is more
appropriate: perhaps there are other system's shrinking tool that could
help me here. Thanks for any ideas.)
I'm interested in installing a new operating system. Haven't
decided
which yet---perhaps FreeBSD, perhaps GNU Guix. I've got 195 GiB free in
my c: drive plus 655 MiB unallocated which I was able to get from
shrinking the c: drive using the Windows 10 Disk Management tool.
Disk Management (how my storage looks right now)
https://prnt.sc/WZ1fF5S9ARJ1
Disk Management is not able to shrink more. It says it has been
done
what it could with those 655 MiB.
https://prnt.sc/ez9O5JUVUVXv
I turned hibernation off, restarted and tried again. Same thing.
Looking at the defrag event in the application log, I find:
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
A volume shrink analysis was initiated on volume (C:). This event log
entry details information about the last unmovable file that could limit
the maximum number of reclaimable bytes.
Diagnostic details:
- The last unmovable file appears to be: \System Volume
Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
- The last cluster of the file is: 0x76e787e
- Shrink potential target (LCN address): 0x466119b
- The NTFS file flags are: ---AD
- Shrink phase: <analysis>
To find more details about this file please use the "fsutil
volume
querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7}
0x76e787e" command.
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
Using the fsutil command, I get:
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
C:\Windows\system32>fsutil volume querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7} 0x76e787e
Cluster 0x00000000076e787e used by ---AD \System Volume
Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
Anything else I could try? I have not tried to use other system's
shrinking programs. Could they do a better job? Perhaps this is not
the best newsgroup to ask this question.

Delete all your trash.
Delete all restore points. Yeh, this one hurts when you want to play
with the system.
Then try. I've had luck with this. Then make a new restore point when done.

I don't think I had any restore points. (Lol. Should I have? But I
disabled ``system protection'' anyway to make sure all would be
deleted. I had a lot trash, so I emptied it out.) Then plim! I was
able to get 270 GiB unallocated!

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
THANK YOU!
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

Another option is to use a defrag tool or other utility that will let
you see what is way out there on the last sectors of that partition.
Possibly a file you can move to another drive temp.

I had done a defrag. The tool called ``Optimize Drives''. It did not
do anything for going beyond the 655 MiB. But I opened it up again and
it seems to be giving me a progress of the shrinking process:

https://prnt.sc/HLxeBbx2SBMK

Please make an image of you drive! I've done this before with no
issues, but Santa may not be on your side.

Lol. I'm risking it all. :) May the Force be with me.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/24/2024 3:22 PM, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

Anything else I could try? I have not tried to use other system's
shrinking programs. Could they do a better job? Perhaps this is not
the best newsgroup to ask this question.

I use BootIt, which can also help with the multi-boot. My
Win10 is 75GB with only 21 used. I then have Suse, another
Win10 partition, and data partitions.

Disk Management in Windows is all but useless. BootIt or
an equivalent specialized program can do whatever you like.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Salvador Mirzo wrote:

Anything else I could try?

I use a GParted Live bootable stick for shrinking windows partitions

<https://gparted.org/liveusb.php>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/24/24 04:05 PM, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

I had done a defrag. The tool called ``Optimize Drives''. It did not
do anything for going beyond the 655 MiB. But I opened it up again and
it seems to be giving me a progress of the shrinking process:

Optimize SSD? I wouldn't.

--
Linux Mint 22, Cinnamon 6.2.9, Kernel 6.8.0-51-generic
Thunderbird 128.5.2esr, Mozilla Firefox 133.0.3
Alan K.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 12/24/2024 4:05 PM, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

"Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> writes:

On 12/24/24 03:22 PM, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

Please followup-To alt.comp.os.windows-10. (Note this is not just a
Windows question, but I believe the Windows newsgroup is more
appropriate: perhaps there are other system's shrinking tool that could
help me here. Thanks for any ideas.)
I'm interested in installing a new operating system. Haven't
decided
which yet---perhaps FreeBSD, perhaps GNU Guix. I've got 195 GiB free in >>> my c: drive plus 655 MiB unallocated which I was able to get from
shrinking the c: drive using the Windows 10 Disk Management tool.
Disk Management (how my storage looks right now)
https://prnt.sc/WZ1fF5S9ARJ1
Disk Management is not able to shrink more. It says it has been
done
what it could with those 655 MiB.
https://prnt.sc/ez9O5JUVUVXv
I turned hibernation off, restarted and tried again. Same thing.
Looking at the defrag event in the application log, I find:
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
A volume shrink analysis was initiated on volume (C:). This event log
entry details information about the last unmovable file that could limit >>> the maximum number of reclaimable bytes.
Diagnostic details:
- The last unmovable file appears to be: \System Volume
Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
- The last cluster of the file is: 0x76e787e
- Shrink potential target (LCN address): 0x466119b
- The NTFS file flags are: ---AD
- Shrink phase: <analysis>
To find more details about this file please use the "fsutil
volume
querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7}
0x76e787e" command.
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
Using the fsutil command, I get:
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
C:\Windows\system32>fsutil volume querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7} 0x76e787e
Cluster 0x00000000076e787e used by ---AD \System Volume
Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
Anything else I could try? I have not tried to use other system's
shrinking programs. Could they do a better job? Perhaps this is not
the best newsgroup to ask this question.

Delete all your trash.
Delete all restore points. Yeh, this one hurts when you want to play
with the system.
Then try. I've had luck with this. Then make a new restore point when done.

I don't think I had any restore points. (Lol. Should I have? But I disabled ``system protection'' anyway to make sure all would be
deleted. I had a lot trash, so I emptied it out.) Then plim! I was
able to get 270 GiB unallocated!

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
THANK YOU!
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

Another option is to use a defrag tool or other utility that will let
you see what is way out there on the last sectors of that partition.
Possibly a file you can move to another drive temp.

I had done a defrag. The tool called ``Optimize Drives''. It did not
do anything for going beyond the 655 MiB. But I opened it up again and
it seems to be giving me a progress of the shrinking process:

https://prnt.sc/HLxeBbx2SBMK

Please make an image of you drive! I've done this before with no
issues, but Santa may not be on your side.

Lol. I'm risking it all. :) May the Force be with me.

Good work!

Most people would have been defeated by the Shrink thing.
You succeeded.

But I would take Alan K's warning seriously. Why ?
You said the word FreeBSD :-/ FreeBSD, for your personal
safety, should ONLY be installed on a standalone (new)
hard drive. It really wants to take the whole drive,
it uses a file system which cannot be serviced with
ordinary tools. It's a really foreign environment (I've tried
to set one up within the last week, and every time I tried
to start the graphics, the damn thing froze on me).

I would not underestimate the pestilence of FreeBSD.
(Install an XOrg and an xinit package and do a
StartX and that will likely work. Getting Gnome
to run, that's where my little project stopped.)

The GNU Guix entry, the last release is 2022. Is there
a working Repository for that distro ? The ISO file is
kind of small, which means operation of the distro will
be quite dependent on a working Repository.

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=guixsd

*******

Freebsd

If you download one of their pre-loaded VHD files, you can
use that in VirtualBox. Define a machine and add the VHD
as the disk drive for the machine. VirtualBox has the
Virtual Media Manager, and it has a resize capability.
I changed the provided disk image from 6.03GB to 50GB to
allow room for software additions. But the file system,
it needs to be "expanded" to finish the job.

This command, causes the slash partition to expand into
the free space on the VHD disk emulation. Shut down after
this runs as root, and on the next start it should give
a much larger slash.

service growfs onestart # Expanding / to fill a resized VHD

Getting Xorg to run, isn't a big deal, but then, this is not
a DE, and getting the DE to run is a much more complicated job.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/7bvVJNFF/Free-BSD142-using-their-provided-VHD.gif

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Paul wrote:

On Tue, 12/24/2024 4:05 PM, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

"Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> writes:

On 12/24/24 03:22 PM, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

Please followup-To alt.comp.os.windows-10. (Note this is not just a
Windows question, but I believe the Windows newsgroup is more
appropriate: perhaps there are other system's shrinking tool that could >>>> help me here. Thanks for any ideas.)
I'm interested in installing a new operating system. Haven't
decided
which yet---perhaps FreeBSD, perhaps GNU Guix. I've got 195 GiB free in >>>> my c: drive plus 655 MiB unallocated which I was able to get from
shrinking the c: drive using the Windows 10 Disk Management tool.
Disk Management (how my storage looks right now)
https://prnt.sc/WZ1fF5S9ARJ1
Disk Management is not able to shrink more. It says it has been
done
what it could with those 655 MiB.
https://prnt.sc/ez9O5JUVUVXv
I turned hibernation off, restarted and tried again. Same thing.
Looking at the defrag event in the application log, I find:
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
A volume shrink analysis was initiated on volume (C:). This event log
entry details information about the last unmovable file that could limit >>>> the maximum number of reclaimable bytes.
Diagnostic details:
- The last unmovable file appears to be: \System Volume
Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
- The last cluster of the file is: 0x76e787e
- Shrink potential target (LCN address): 0x466119b
- The NTFS file flags are: ---AD
- Shrink phase: <analysis>
To find more details about this file please use the "fsutil
volume
querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7}
0x76e787e" command.
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
Using the fsutil command, I get:
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
C:\Windows\system32>fsutil volume querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7} 0x76e787e
Cluster 0x00000000076e787e used by ---AD \System Volume
Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
Anything else I could try? I have not tried to use other system's
shrinking programs. Could they do a better job? Perhaps this is not
the best newsgroup to ask this question.

Delete all your trash.
Delete all restore points. Yeh, this one hurts when you want to play
with the system.
Then try. I've had luck with this. Then make a new restore point when done.

I don't think I had any restore points. (Lol. Should I have? But I
disabled ``system protection'' anyway to make sure all would be
deleted. I had a lot trash, so I emptied it out.) Then plim! I was
able to get 270 GiB unallocated!

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
THANK YOU!
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

Another option is to use a defrag tool or other utility that will let
you see what is way out there on the last sectors of that partition.
Possibly a file you can move to another drive temp.

I had done a defrag. The tool called ``Optimize Drives''. It did not
do anything for going beyond the 655 MiB. But I opened it up again and
it seems to be giving me a progress of the shrinking process:

https://prnt.sc/HLxeBbx2SBMK

Please make an image of you drive! I've done this before with no
issues, but Santa may not be on your side.

Lol. I'm risking it all. :) May the Force be with me.

Good work!

Most people would have been defeated by the Shrink thing.
You succeeded.

But I would take Alan K's warning seriously. Why ?
You said the word FreeBSD :-/ FreeBSD, for your personal
safety, should ONLY be installed on a standalone (new)
hard drive. It really wants to take the whole drive,
it uses a file system which cannot be serviced with
ordinary tools. It's a really foreign environment (I've tried
to set one up within the last week, and every time I tried
to start the graphics, the damn thing froze on me).

I would not underestimate the pestilence of FreeBSD.
(Install an XOrg and an xinit package and do a
StartX and that will likely work. Getting Gnome
to run, that's where my little project stopped.)

The GNU Guix entry, the last release is 2022. Is there
a working Repository for that distro ? The ISO file is
kind of small, which means operation of the distro will
be quite dependent on a working Repository.

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=guixsd

*******

Freebsd

If you download one of their pre-loaded VHD files, you can
use that in VirtualBox. Define a machine and add the VHD
as the disk drive for the machine. VirtualBox has the
Virtual Media Manager, and it has a resize capability.
I changed the provided disk image from 6.03GB to 50GB to
allow room for software additions. But the file system,
it needs to be "expanded" to finish the job.

This command, causes the slash partition to expand into
the free space on the VHD disk emulation. Shut down after
this runs as root, and on the next start it should give
a much larger slash.

service growfs onestart # Expanding / to fill a resized VHD

Getting Xorg to run, isn't a big deal, but then, this is not
a DE, and getting the DE to run is a much more complicated job.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/7bvVJNFF/Free-BSD142-using-their-provided-VHD.gif

Paul

Sounds like free bsd is the anti linus!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/24/24 05:33 PM, Paul wrote:

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/7bvVJNFF/Free-BSD142-using-their-provided-VHD.gif

Paul

What, no win95 in the VM? LOL

--
Linux Mint 22, Cinnamon 6.2.9, Kernel 6.8.0-51-generic
Thunderbird 128.5.2esr, Mozilla Firefox 133.0.3
Alan K.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 17:22:57 -0300, Salvador Mirzo
<smirzo@example.com> wrote:

Please followup-To alt.comp.os.windows-10. (Note this is not just a
Windows question, but I believe the Windows newsgroup is more
appropriate: perhaps there are other system's shrinking tool that could
help me here. Thanks for any ideas.)

I'm interested in installing a new operating system. Haven't decided
which yet---perhaps FreeBSD, perhaps GNU Guix. I've got 195 GiB free in
my c: drive plus 655 MiB unallocated which I was able to get from
shrinking the c: drive using the Windows 10 Disk Management tool.

Disk Management (how my storage looks right now)
https://prnt.sc/WZ1fF5S9ARJ1

Disk Management is not able to shrink more. It says it has been done
what it could with those 655 MiB.

https://prnt.sc/ez9O5JUVUVXv

I turned hibernation off, restarted and tried again. Same thing.
Looking at the defrag event in the application log, I find:

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
A volume shrink analysis was initiated on volume (C:). This event log
entry details information about the last unmovable file that could limit
the maximum number of reclaimable bytes.

Diagnostic details:
- The last unmovable file appears to be: \System Volume
Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
- The last cluster of the file is: 0x76e787e
- Shrink potential target (LCN address): 0x466119b
- The NTFS file flags are: ---AD
- Shrink phase: <analysis>

To find more details about this file please use the "fsutil volume querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7}
0x76e787e" command.
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

Using the fsutil command, I get:

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8--- >C:\Windows\system32>fsutil volume querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7} 0x76e787e
Cluster 0x00000000076e787e used by ---AD \System Volume >Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

Anything else I could try? I have not tried to use other system's
shrinking programs. Could they do a better job? Perhaps this is not
the best newsgroup to ask this question.

See if Gparted Live does what you need. But do back up any
important data first.

<https://gparted.org/livecd.php>

Same site for docs and examples.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
Google Fuchsia - 2021

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/24/24 3:22 PM, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

Please followup-To alt.comp.os.windows-10. (Note this is not just a
Windows question, but I believe the Windows newsgroup is more
appropriate: perhaps there are other system's shrinking tool that could
help me here. Thanks for any ideas.)

I'm interested in installing a new operating system. Haven't decided
which yet---perhaps FreeBSD, perhaps GNU Guix. I've got 195 GiB free in
my c: drive plus 655 MiB unallocated which I was able to get from
shrinking the c: drive using the Windows 10 Disk Management tool.

Disk Management (how my storage looks right now)
https://prnt.sc/WZ1fF5S9ARJ1

Disk Management is not able to shrink more. It says it has been done
what it could with those 655 MiB.

https://prnt.sc/ez9O5JUVUVXv

I turned hibernation off, restarted and tried again. Same thing.
Looking at the defrag event in the application log, I find:

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
A volume shrink analysis was initiated on volume (C:). This event log
entry details information about the last unmovable file that could limit
the maximum number of reclaimable bytes.

Diagnostic details:
- The last unmovable file appears to be: \System Volume
Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
- The last cluster of the file is: 0x76e787e
- Shrink potential target (LCN address): 0x466119b
- The NTFS file flags are: ---AD
- Shrink phase: <analysis>

To find more details about this file please use the "fsutil volume
querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7}
0x76e787e" command. --8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

Using the fsutil command, I get:

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8--- C:\Windows\system32>fsutil volume querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7} 0x76e787e
Cluster 0x00000000076e787e used by ---AD \System Volume Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

Anything else I could try? I have not tried to use other system's
shrinking programs. Could they do a better job? Perhaps this is not
the best newsgroup to ask this question.

Winders can make a kind of a mess out of "C:" with
'unmovable' files and 'recovery' stuff kinda scattered
all around.

If you are using a desktop then just install another
HDD and use that. Some laptops have a socket for another
m12 card or similar. "-ix' systems are much smaller than
Winders, so you don't need a huge second drive.

Otherwise, if even gparted or the 'Acronis' version
for your existing HDD won't straighten it out there's
little choice but to back up, manually format the
disk with gparted into two distinct partitions and
re-install Winders. Not terribly attractive ...

I've wondered if the Win scheme is a subtle form of
Bill "linux-proofing" PCs :-)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 17:22:57 -0300, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

Disk Management is not able to shrink more. It says it has been done
what it could with those 655 MiB.

Did you defrag first? Windows has a way of using non-contiguous areas and spreading them all over.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 12/24/2024 5:45 PM, Alan K. wrote:

On 12/24/24 05:33 PM, Paul wrote:

    [Picture]

     https://i.postimg.cc/7bvVJNFF/Free-BSD142-using-their-provided-VHD.gif

    Paul

What, no win95 in the VM?   LOL

If you think that's bad, you should see my hardware junk room.

The oldest I've got, is a Win98 VM on the other machine, and
it has a licensed copy of Acrobat Distiller 4 in it. The VM
used to be in VirtualPC, and I managed to move it to VirtualBox.
The old machine with VirtualPC in it died, and the Win98 was
stranded for quite a while. The env was close enough to bring
it across.

I was late starting on PC compatibles, which is why my epoch
starts at Win98. I used to hang in Mac forums. And at work,
fifteen years on Sparc boxes or so. I don't do SmartPhones
or RPi.

My first FreeBSD was a multiboot around the year 2000 or so.
I had some commercial Boot Manager which worked a treat,
multiple (slow) hard drives, and the Boot Manager really
was quite magical. You could go into the menu and say
"add that FreeBSD" and bam, it's in the menu, and it works.
There aren't many responses on machines today, that are
that nice.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 12/24/2024 4:59 PM, Newyana2 wrote:

On 12/24/2024 3:22 PM, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

Anything else I could try?  I have not tried to use other system's
shrinking programs.  Could they do a better job?  Perhaps this is not
the best newsgroup to ask this question.

   I use BootIt, which can also help with the multi-boot. My
Win10 is 75GB with only 21 used. I then have Suse, another
Win10 partition, and data partitions.

  Disk Management in Windows is all but useless. BootIt or
an equivalent specialized program can do whatever you like.

The problem to some extent, is the arcane enforcement of "rules"
to no purpose. Like, you could be using Paragon PM14 Free for
the odd Move/Resize operation, but the Recovery Partition, the
ability to change the size is grayed out. This is on GPT partitioned
disks, where the partition type isn't really a file system declaration
but a "whole package of behaviors".

Sometimes diskpart.exe (command line) allows you to do a bit
more in Windows. Like, a thing that doesn't work in Disk Management,
adding the modifier "override" to the command line equivalent,
allows the completion of what you wanted to do.

The problem with more permissive disk management tools, is
they will tell you "hey, I know how to do that". Then
when you click the button, your disk contents are destroyed :-/
If your disk type or ecosystem is obscure in any way,
then there is a possibility of total destruction. And this
means you have to weigh the contents of each disk, and
how much of a challenge they present for overly aggressive
software. For example, I tried to edit a Mac disk once,
and I took a backup of it first. And the Mac disk contents
were destroyed. And I restored from backup, and the total
time to do all that was 10-20 minutes or so. I've also
lost a couple disks full of stuff over the years,
to those sorts of "accidents", so my luck with doing
backups isn't infinite.

While Windows Disk Management is useless, the little it
does do is relatively safe.

If you want "bravery", try the Microsoft "MBR2GPT" program
some time. It will make some rather "interesting" messes
to clean up.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 12/24/2024 5:21 PM, Alan K. wrote:

On 12/24/24 04:05 PM, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

I had done a defrag.  The tool called ``Optimize Drives''.  It did not
do anything for going beyond the 655 MiB.  But I opened it up again and
it seems to be giving me a progress of the shrinking process:

Optimize SSD?   I wouldn't.

the Optimize panel has two functions in Windows.

1) If you do Properties : Tools : Optimize on a partition,
that uses TRIM when the software detects it is an SSD.

2) If you are in Disk Management, and you Request A Shrink,
in the background where you cannot see it, the Optimize Panel
shows a packing and defragmentation happening on the SSD,
as your valuables are squeezed and moved to the left within
the partition. The "defrag API" is being used, to move many
materials around. There are some partition items the shrink
will not move, and other tools or environments can make the
partition even smaller.

To optimize a HDD:

1) Defrag is supported. Files larger than 50MB are not defragmented.
Using a third party tool like JKDefrag, can defragment the remaining
files, if you want to tidy those up afterwards.

To optimize a SSD:

1) The most common operation is TRIM, which takes a couple seconds as
a list of LBAs are sent to the SSD drive processor. This command
is a "hint", which the drive can ignore if it wants. The SSD processor
moves unused storage space to the Free Pool, as a result of a TRIM hint.

2) In cases where the SSD has a lot of shadow copies, and it takes
a lot of effort to figure out where to write, the Optimize panel
can switch to a defragment strategy for one run, to "clean up" the
disk. To improve slow COW situations, the defragmenter API has a
minimum block size it uses, which is larger than normal. And this is
a block size selected to be compatible with shadow copies. Since I don't
have a lot of persistent shadow copies on C; , the Optimize panel has
never ever used this (2) option. But for some people, they will need
this treatment, to restore write performance on the SSD.

And while the Optimize panel is very clever, it has in the past, on
many occasions, mixed up the SSD versus HDD determination. For example,
it may offer to "TRIM" your HDD, which the HDD and its command parser
will ignore. You can go over to the Command Prompt window and do
"defrag,exe X: " if you want to force a defragmentation of whatever X:
happens to be. If X: is on an SSD, then it defragments on an SSD.
It does this, because... you asked it to. The Windows GUIs tend to be "defensive", the command line, less so.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 12/24/2024 8:50 PM, rbowman wrote:

On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 17:22:57 -0300, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

Disk Management is not able to shrink more. It says it has been done
what it could with those 655 MiB.

Did you defrag first? Windows has a way of using non-contiguous areas and spreading them all over.

Defrag does not move everything. There are some rules about
what location certain metadata on the partition belongs.

Defrag can move the bulk of the drive, but not everything,
and this is what "blocks shrink".

As a counter-example, Raxco PerfectDisk defragmenter, does
move more than the Windows defragmenter does, and by repeated
defragmentation, you can (eventually) make the content
shrink-able. The shrink dialog in Disk Management, then works,
and works quickly. But after hours of Raxco work.

All the defragmenters, use the "defrag API" provided in the OS.
And they use that, because it happens to be a Data Safe API.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/25/2024 3:21 AM, Paul wrote:

The problem with more permissive disk management tools, is
they will tell you "hey, I know how to do that". Then
when you click the button, your disk contents are destroyed :-/

I've been using BootIt for probably 20 years. I do all
partitioning, booting and disk imaging with it. Not once
has it failed at anything. Where Windows says files can't
be moved, BootIt has no issues.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2024-12-25 01:11, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

  Winders can make a kind of a mess out of "C:" with
  'unmovable' files and 'recovery' stuff kinda scattered
  all around.

  If you are using a desktop then just install another
  HDD and use that. Some laptops have a socket for another
  m12 card or similar. "-ix' systems are much smaller than
  Winders, so you don't need a huge second drive.

  Otherwise, if even gparted or the 'Acronis' version
  for your existing HDD won't straighten it out there's
  little choice but to back up, manually format the
  disk with gparted into two distinct partitions and
  re-install Winders. Not terribly attractive ...

  I've wondered if the Win scheme is a subtle form of
  Bill "linux-proofing" PCs  :-)

IME, the above is mostly bollocks. I move Windows partitions around
using Ghost and dual-boot using GRUB with few or no problems at all.
One exception is the requirement to turn off fast booting on Windows 8
and later versions, otherwise disk-imaging may not work properly, in
that images may be corrupted and may not restore properly ...

As I've posted before, Windows versions since 8 have a 'Fast startup'
feature enabled by default, whose sole purpose is to reduce boot time,
but I have it disabled, because otherwise backing up your system disk
using imaging software may not work properly, as I discovered when using
Ghost for this. The shut down state using this is akin to hibernation,
and IME it is not safe to image a hibernated OS partition, as on restore
this may corrupt other partitions such as data partitions, which
logically you'd think should be unaffected.

The following page explains some of this quite well, but I don't think
mentions the imaging problem among the reasons to turn it off, whereas
for me it's the most important one:

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-disable-windows-10-fast-startup

To disable it you need to use the legacy Vista+ Power Control Panel:
Settings
System
Power and sleep
Additional power settings (takes you to the legacy Power CP)
Choose what the power buttons do
Change settings that are currently unavailable
Disable 'Turn on fast start-up'
Save changes

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2024-12-24, Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote:

I'm interested in installing a new operating system. Haven't decided
which yet---perhaps FreeBSD, perhaps GNU Guix. I've got 195 GiB free in
my c: drive plus 655 MiB unallocated which I was able to get from
shrinking the c: drive using the Windows 10 Disk Management tool.

<snip>

Anything else I could try? I have not tried to use other system's
shrinking programs. Could they do a better job? Perhaps this is not
the best newsgroup to ask this question.

I haven't gone near Win10, but on older versions there is a Master
File Table (MFT) which is placed smack in the middle of the partition.
The MFT is not movable, so you're limited to shrinking the partition
to half its size.

I found a utility called PerfectDisk from Raxco. A bit of searching
reveals that they went bankrupt earlier this year, but it might be
possible to find a copy of it somewhere. It is capable of moving the
MFT. After a few cycles I got a 250GB partition down to about 50GB.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 12/24/2024 8:11 PM, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

On 12/24/24 3:22 PM, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

Please followup-To alt.comp.os.windows-10.  (Note this is not just a
Windows question, but I believe the Windows newsgroup is more
appropriate: perhaps there are other system's shrinking tool that could
help me here.  Thanks for any ideas.)

I'm interested in installing a new operating system.  Haven't decided
which yet---perhaps FreeBSD, perhaps GNU Guix.  I've got 195 GiB free in
my c: drive plus 655 MiB unallocated which I was able to get from
shrinking the c: drive using the Windows 10 Disk Management tool.

   Disk Management (how my storage looks right now)
   https://prnt.sc/WZ1fF5S9ARJ1

Disk Management is not able to shrink more.  It says it has been done
what it could with those 655 MiB.

   https://prnt.sc/ez9O5JUVUVXv

I turned hibernation off, restarted and tried again.  Same thing.
Looking at the defrag event in the application log, I find:

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
A volume shrink analysis was initiated on volume (C:). This event log
entry details information about the last unmovable file that could limit
the maximum number of reclaimable bytes.
    Diagnostic details:
  - The last unmovable file appears to be: \System Volume
    Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
  - The last cluster of the file is: 0x76e787e
  - Shrink potential target (LCN address): 0x466119b
  - The NTFS file flags are: ---AD
  - Shrink phase: <analysis>
    To find more details about this file please use the "fsutil volume
  querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7}
  0x76e787e" command.
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

Using the fsutil command, I get:

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
C:\Windows\system32>fsutil volume querycluster \\?\Volume{f5e639db-a758-4dfa-9804-d5d4d0286fb7} 0x76e787e
Cluster 0x00000000076e787e used by ---AD \System Volume
Information\{fba11b84-afde-11ef-adfe-48684ad40403}{3808876b-c176-4e48-b7ae-04046e6cc752}::$DATA
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

Anything else I could try?  I have not tried to use other system's
shrinking programs.  Could they do a better job?  Perhaps this is not
the best newsgroup to ask this question.

  Winders can make a kind of a mess out of "C:" with
  'unmovable' files and 'recovery' stuff kinda scattered
  all around.

  If you are using a desktop then just install another
  HDD and use that. Some laptops have a socket for another
  m12 card or similar. "-ix' systems are much smaller than
  Winders, so you don't need a huge second drive.

  Otherwise, if even gparted or the 'Acronis' version
  for your existing HDD won't straighten it out there's
  little choice but to back up, manually format the
  disk with gparted into two distinct partitions and
  re-install Winders. Not terribly attractive ...

  I've wondered if the Win scheme is a subtle form of
  Bill "linux-proofing" PCs  :-)

Using Macrium Reflect Free, you can do a backup and restore of C:
from the Macrium Reflect "Rescue CD" and achieve a thorough shrink.
In the picture on the right, you can see there is no "black blob" of
wasted space. That partition is pretty close to the minimum.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/vT80B965/Using-Macrium-Backup-Restore-to-Shrink.gif

When Macrium is asked to restore to a partition space which is smaller
than what the backup was using, it changes modes during restore and
this allows what is essentially a file-by-file restoration to achieve
a tighter packing.

*******
And you don't have to "re-install Winders".

And neither is Linux blocked. I have Linux installed
all over the place here. There is a Secure Boot
Linux Multi-boot on the other machine, and the
Mokutil installed a couple of things.

And so far, there have been no

"Something is seriously wrong"

messages at boot. Just the usual warnings and
comments from the EFI startup (the stuff you can
only record with a video camera and it is not logged).

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2024-12-25 09:44, Paul wrote:

On Tue, 12/24/2024 5:21 PM, Alan K. wrote:

On 12/24/24 04:05 PM, Salvador Mirzo wrote:

I had done a defrag.  The tool called ``Optimize Drives''.  It did not >>> do anything for going beyond the 655 MiB.  But I opened it up again and >>> it seems to be giving me a progress of the shrinking process:

Optimize SSD?   I wouldn't.

the Optimize panel has two functions in Windows.

1) If you do Properties : Tools : Optimize on a partition,
that uses TRIM when the software detects it is an SSD.

2) If you are in Disk Management, and you Request A Shrink,
in the background where you cannot see it, the Optimize Panel
shows a packing and defragmentation happening on the SSD,
as your valuables are squeezed and moved to the left within
the partition. The "defrag API" is being used, to move many
materials around. There are some partition items the shrink
will not move, and other tools or environments can make the
partition even smaller.

To optimize a HDD:

1) Defrag is supported. Files larger than 50MB are not defragmented.
Using a third party tool like JKDefrag, can defragment the remaining
files, if you want to tidy those up afterwards.

To optimize a SSD:

1) The most common operation is TRIM, which takes a couple seconds as
a list of LBAs are sent to the SSD drive processor. This command
is a "hint", which the drive can ignore if it wants. The SSD processor
moves unused storage space to the Free Pool, as a result of a TRIM hint.

2) In cases where the SSD has a lot of shadow copies, and it takes
a lot of effort to figure out where to write, the Optimize panel
can switch to a defragment strategy for one run, to "clean up" the
disk. To improve slow COW situations, the defragmenter API has a
minimum block size it uses, which is larger than normal. And this is
a block size selected to be compatible with shadow copies. Since I don't
have a lot of persistent shadow copies on C; , the Optimize panel has
never ever used this (2) option. But for some people, they will need
this treatment, to restore write performance on the SSD.

And while the Optimize panel is very clever, it has in the past, on
many occasions, mixed up the SSD versus HDD determination. For example,
it may offer to "TRIM" your HDD, which the HDD and its command parser
will ignore. You can go over to the Command Prompt window and do
"defrag,exe X: " if you want to force a defragmentation of whatever X: happens to be. If X: is on an SSD, then it defragments on an SSD.
It does this, because... you asked it to. The Windows GUIs tend to be "defensive", the command line, less so.

We say that defrag on an SSD is pointless and uses lifetime. However,
I'm thinking that when the purpose is to shrink a partition, defrag on
an SSD does have purpose. Maybe there could be a defrag software that
would simply fill the holes at the start of the sector count, and move
files to the start, without sorting the sectors.

I don't know if the windows system tool does this. Compacting, rather
than a traditional defragging.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 12/25/2024 9:24 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

We say that defrag on an SSD is pointless and uses lifetime. However, I'm thinking that when the purpose is to shrink a partition, defrag on an SSD does have purpose. Maybe there could be a defrag software that would simply fill the holes at the start

of the sector count, and move files to the start, without sorting the sectors.

I don't know if the windows system tool does this. Compacting, rather than a traditional defragging.

The Windows defrag this time, was written in house, and it's pretty clever.

The WinXP defragmenter was written by President Software (a third party)
and placed into WinXP by Microsoft. It was a "perfect defragmenter", which sought to make a "continuous green bar" out of your files. It is human
nature for the customers to clap their hands, when the green bar is there.

By the time we get to Win10, the defrag is still using the same low level (power safe) defrag. But this time, the policy implemented is a practical
one. Defragmentation is done to improve performance. Any kind of defrag
which does not matter, is not done. This is why large gigabyte sized files,
are not defragmented. Even if they have hundreds of fragments on the hard drive.

The defragmenter both defragments and consolidates. It moves some
structures downwards. This takes a fair amount of time, out of the
total time the tool runs.

However, they leave "gaps" between files. It's a kind of cheese with
holes -- the objective is no longer to make a green bar where the
customers will clap their hands. The gaps are there, for some sort of
strategy at write time. Maybe if the NTFS writer knows an operation
will be a small one, it uses a gap. I didn't think the writer did things
like that, at least in the past, the writer policy was ultra simple
and not all that good.

From a heuristic point of view, it alternates between defrag and
consolidating, and makes a "medium weight Swiss cheese" from your
disk. And apparently this is optimal for writing later.

Also, while the Optimizer is running, all sorts of ETW recorders are
running, making a mess out of the disk with their writes :-) The green
bar crowd would go nuts if they saw that :-)

I watch these things with the JKDefrag block display, just for the comedy.

The tool is multi-pass, and it could do 14-15 passes in exceptional cases,
and only 5 passes for slight levels of "disorder". I don't know
all the details of what it is doing, but that's a description of a part of it.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2024-12-25 18:31, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 12/25/2024 9:24 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

We say that defrag on an SSD is pointless and uses lifetime. However, I'm thinking that when the purpose is to shrink a partition, defrag on an SSD does have purpose. Maybe there could be a defrag software that would simply fill the holes at the start

of the sector count, and move files to the start, without sorting the sectors. >>

I don't know if the windows system tool does this. Compacting, rather than a traditional defragging.

The Windows defrag this time, was written in house, and it's pretty clever.

The WinXP defragmenter was written by President Software (a third party)
and placed into WinXP by Microsoft. It was a "perfect defragmenter", which sought to make a "continuous green bar" out of your files. It is human
nature for the customers to clap their hands, when the green bar is there.

By the time we get to Win10, the defrag is still using the same low level (power safe) defrag. But this time, the policy implemented is a practical one. Defragmentation is done to improve performance. Any kind of defrag
which does not matter, is not done. This is why large gigabyte sized files, are not defragmented. Even if they have hundreds of fragments on the hard drive.

The defragmenter both defragments and consolidates. It moves some
structures downwards. This takes a fair amount of time, out of the
total time the tool runs.

However, they leave "gaps" between files. It's a kind of cheese with
holes -- the objective is no longer to make a green bar where the
customers will clap their hands. The gaps are there, for some sort of strategy at write time. Maybe if the NTFS writer knows an operation
will be a small one, it uses a gap. I didn't think the writer did things
like that, at least in the past, the writer policy was ultra simple
and not all that good.

From a heuristic point of view, it alternates between defrag and consolidating, and makes a "medium weight Swiss cheese" from your
disk. And apparently this is optimal for writing later.

Also, while the Optimizer is running, all sorts of ETW recorders are
running, making a mess out of the disk with their writes :-) The green
bar crowd would go nuts if they saw that :-)

I watch these things with the JKDefrag block display, just for the comedy.

The tool is multi-pass, and it could do 14-15 passes in exceptional cases, and only 5 passes for slight levels of "disorder". I don't know
all the details of what it is doing, but that's a description of a part of it.

Around 1990 I seriously considered writing a FAT defrag, moving larger
chunks than was normal back then, using PCtools or Norton defragmenters.
Trying to minimize head movement.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)