I have a keyboard that requires me to turn on F keys if I
want to use them in software. Yet with them turned off,
F10 opens Documents, F11 opens My Pictures, F12 opens
My Music... I accidentally hit them and it's a hassle. I've never
used any of those folders in any version of Windows. Is there
a way to disconnect that alignment?

I deleted My Music and My Pictures, and so far that seems
to work, but I Documents holds numerous things, and F9 opens
the Computer window. So deleting is clearly not a solution.

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On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 12:03:17 -0500, Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam>
wrote:

I have a keyboard that requires me to turn on F keys if I
want to use them in software. Yet with them turned off,
F10 opens Documents, F11 opens My Pictures, F12 opens
My Music... I accidentally hit them and it's a hassle. I've never
used any of those folders in any version of Windows. Is there
a way to disconnect that alignment?

I deleted My Music and My Pictures, and so far that seems
to work, but I Documents holds numerous things, and F9 opens
the Computer window. So deleting is clearly not a solution.

Download and use Sharpkeys
https://github.com/randyrants/sharpkeys/releases

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On 12/26/2024 12:45 PM, Ken Blake wrote:

On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 12:03:17 -0500, Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam>
wrote:

I have a keyboard that requires me to turn on F keys if I
want to use them in software. Yet with them turned off,
F10 opens Documents, F11 opens My Pictures, F12 opens
My Music... I accidentally hit them and it's a hassle. I've never
used any of those folders in any version of Windows. Is there
a way to disconnect that alignment?

I deleted My Music and My Pictures, and so far that seems
to work, but I Documents holds numerous things, and F9 opens
the Computer window. So deleting is clearly not a solution.

Download and use Sharpkeys
https://github.com/randyrants/sharpkeys/releases

Thanks. That could work, though I'd rather just find out
the relevant Registry settings and then decide which to use.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thu, 12/26/2024 5:16 PM, Newyana2 wrote:

On 12/26/2024 12:45 PM, Ken Blake wrote:

On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 12:03:17 -0500, Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam>
wrote:

   I have a keyboard that requires me to turn on F keys if I
want to use them in software. Yet with them turned off,
F10 opens Documents, F11 opens My Pictures, F12 opens
My Music... I accidentally hit them and it's a hassle. I've never
used any of those folders in any version of Windows. Is there
a way to disconnect that alignment?

   I deleted My Music and My Pictures, and so far that seems
to work, but I Documents holds numerous things, and F9 opens
the Computer window. So deleting is clearly not a solution.

Download and use Sharpkeys
https://github.com/randyrants/sharpkeys/releases

  Thanks. That could work, though I'd rather just find out
the relevant Registry settings and then decide which to use.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/f11-function-key-opens-file-explorer-and-doesnt/1b43c050-2aff-45fd-8f5c-0703fd52f625

"I ran a key testing application, and found that the key enumeration
for my f11 key was 182, which is the LaunchApplication1 key code.

It should be 122, which allows for the full screen effect. Sorry for
the technical mumbo-jumbo, but its very frustrating knowing that
something has changed and I can't figure out why.

Any suggestions as to how to get my f11 key functioning
as it should would be very much appreciated."

For some reason, one person in that thread started asking about
Geforce Experience (some baggage that goes with NVidia Driver
and there was a recent issue with it).

"How to change/disable Nvidia Geforce experience overlay key bindings."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXbfpZat7Lk

While that seems far-fetched, how many applications can you
think of which run amok like that one does ?

I think if I'm installing a driver myself, I usually try
to avoid that thing, as I'm not gaming, and there's nothing
in that of immediate interest to me. Hard to say whether
the Microsoft driver update would be including that, but it's possible.

Paul

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On 12/26/2024 5:16 PM, Newyana2 wrote:

On 12/26/2024 12:45 PM, Ken Blake wrote:

On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 12:03:17 -0500, Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam>
wrote:

   I have a keyboard that requires me to turn on F keys if I
want to use them in software. Yet with them turned off,
F10 opens Documents, F11 opens My Pictures, F12 opens
My Music... I accidentally hit them and it's a hassle. I've never
used any of those folders in any version of Windows. Is there
a way to disconnect that alignment?

   I deleted My Music and My Pictures, and so far that seems
to work, but I Documents holds numerous things, and F9 opens
the Computer window. So deleting is clearly not a solution.

Download and use Sharpkeys
https://github.com/randyrants/sharpkeys/releases

  Thanks. That could work, though I'd rather just find out
the relevant Registry settings and then decide which to use.

I press Fn + left shift key to turn F keys on or off, and the keyboard remembers the setting. If your keyboard does not work the same way, then
the F key toggle must be manufacturer-specific and the newsgroup does
not know your manufacturer.

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Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

I have a keyboard that requires me to turn on F keys

"Turn on" F keys? F keys, if present, are always on, but they can be
mapped to different functions. Maybe you meant you use Fn to toggle the function of the F keys, like those keys have the standard F-key labels,
but also a separate and smaller and sometimes blue-colored label for an alternate function.

if I want to use them in software. Yet with them turned off, F10 opens Documents, F11 opens My Pictures, F12 opens My Music... I
accidentally hit them and it's a hassle. I've never used any of those
folders in any version of Windows. Is there a way to disconnect that alignment?

I deleted My Music and My Pictures, and so far that seems to work,
but I Documents holds numerous things, and F9 opens the Computer
window. So deleting is clearly not a solution.

Assuming you did not install any ancilliary software that came with the keyboard (which can redefine key scan codes, define macros, etc), there
are still the media keys defined in the Windows registry. That's why
media keyboards don't need any software to use the media keys (Mute,
volume Up/Down, Web, E-mail, foward/reverse/pause, etc). They media
keyboard issues the scan codes that are already defined in the Windows registry.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\AppKey

Under there are entries for the app (media) keys. Each media key on the keyboard sends a scan code that is listed under the AppKey entry.
Sounds great until you look to find the scan codes are listed under
AppKey, but there are no values defined within each scan code entry. I
suspect the mappings got moved into some Windows system library (maybe shell32.dll, but that's just a guess). With no value defined for a scan
code entry, the default gets used (back wherever the key mappings are
defined). I think back in Windows 7 that I could see the mappings
between scan code to function call, but not in Windows 10.

https://winaero.com/change-what-extra-app-keys-do-for-the-keyboard-in-windows-10-8-and-7/

Possibly you could add a ShellExecute item for the scan code entry that
would override wherever the media key mappings got moved.

If you installed software or a driver with the keyboard, well, you'll
have to check how to configure it to determine how it maps keys to what function. You said you "have a keyboard" which makes it sound like you separately purchased the keyboard. If, however, it is the keyboard on a laptop, usually the laptop maker bundles "drivers" on the laptop of
which one could be for keyboard mapping.

In the AppKey definitions mentioned in the WinAero article, none open
the Documents folder. You don't mention using a media key, but an F key
on the keyboard. I suspect you installed, or your computer came bundled
with, keyboard software that effects the mapping.

That F10 (and not Fn+F10) opens Explorer to the Documents folder sounds
like you have macro software installed for the keyboard. Possibly you
could use the Sharpkeys tool already mentioned by Ken to step on
whatever else is defining the macro for the F10, and other F keys. I'd
first try to find out who was defining and handling the F10 mapping
before trying to use yet another mapper trying to step atop the first.

"SharpKeys is not responsible for any of the keyboard remapping
functionality - it simply exposes a Registry key that controls how
Windows remaps keys and has been available to us since Windows 2000."

If SharpKeys is just exposing the AppKey registry settings, that won't
expose the F10 remapping. While SharpKeys mentions looking at and
modifying registry entries for key scan codes and mappings, it doesn't
mention WHERE it is looking for those scan code mappings. Perhaps it
will show where in the registry it will make changes. I did see in its
Readme notes about adding a ScanCode subkey under:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Keyboard Layout

The ScanCode Map subkey is binary, so not something you can read nor
edit. From elsewhere, someone mentioned the following gets used for
your Windows account (since it is under HKCU instead of HKLM):

https://www.tenforums.com/drivers-hardware/205395-some-keyboard-keys-have-been-turned-off-post2546103.html?s=1abac4b317d28aa70bc91c9901fe1b51#post2546103

but:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Keyboard Layout\Preload

looks to simply define which layout to use, not the key mappings. Mine
just as "1" data item with value of "409" which is US keyboard layout as
per Microsoft's article at:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/windows-language-pack-default-values?view=windows-11

Nowhere have I yet found default Windows mappings on F10, so I have to
wonder if you have software installed that does that mapping.

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On 12/26/2024 6:51 PM, minƿerold.ASTRAWEB wrote:

I press Fn + left shift key to turn F keys on or off, and the keyboard remembers the setting. If your keyboard does not work the same way, then
the F key toggle must be manufacturer-specific and the newsgroup does
not know your manufacturer.

It works to turn them off. The problem is that they're
functioning when turned off. According to the Sharpkeys
FAQ, there are default mappings for the off keys, different
from the on keys! I use the keys sometimes in my own
software, for which I turn them on. But I normally leave
them off.

It looks like Sharpkeys might be able to do the job. I'd
just rather understand it and not use a program that I
don't understand what it's going to do.

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On 12/26/2024 7:44 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

I have a keyboard that requires me to turn on F keys

"Turn on" F keys? F keys, if present, are always on, but they can be
mapped to different functions. Maybe you meant you use Fn to toggle the function of the F keys,

This is not a laptop. It's a desktop, with a keyboard, which has
an f-lock key that enables or disables F keys.

Assuming you did not install any ancilliary software that came with the keyboard (which can redefine key scan codes, define macros, etc), there
are still the media keys defined in the Windows registry. That's why
media keyboards don't need any software to use the media keys (Mute,
volume Up/Down, Web, E-mail, foward/reverse/pause, etc). They media
keyboard issues the scan codes that are already defined in the Windows registry.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\AppKey

Interesting. I have 5 numbered keys there, with no values. But that's
not the issue. F keys, not "web keyboard" keys.

Thanks for all your other exploring. So far no leads to
a solution. The Scancodes Map value data is only
a few bytes. I can certainly edit that, but would need
to know what values to use. I'm guessing that's a red herring.

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Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

On 12/26/2024 7:44 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

I have a keyboard that requires me to turn on F keys

"Turn on" F keys? F keys, if present, are always on, but they can be
mapped to different functions. Maybe you meant you use Fn to toggle the
function of the F keys,

This is not a laptop. It's a desktop, with a keyboard, which has
an f-lock key that enables or disables F keys.

Assuming you did not install any ancilliary software that came with the
keyboard (which can redefine key scan codes, define macros, etc), there
are still the media keys defined in the Windows registry. That's why
media keyboards don't need any software to use the media keys (Mute,
volume Up/Down, Web, E-mail, foward/reverse/pause, etc). They media
keyboard issues the scan codes that are already defined in the Windows
registry.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\AppKey >>

Interesting. I have 5 numbered keys there, with no values. But that's
not the issue. F keys, not "web keyboard" keys.

Thanks for all your other exploring. So far no leads to
a solution. The Scancodes Map value data is only
a few bytes. I can certainly edit that, but would need
to know what values to use. I'm guessing that's a red herring.

Tis possible the macro function is internal to the keyboard. That is,
when you enable F-lock, could be the keyboard itself uses an internal
macro to load explorer.exe to the Documents folder when F10 is pressed.

Which keyboard brand and model?

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On 12/26/2024 6:21 PM, Paul wrote:

On Thu, 12/26/2024 5:16 PM, Newyana2 wrote:

On 12/26/2024 12:45 PM, Ken Blake wrote:

On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 12:03:17 -0500, Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam>
wrote:

   I have a keyboard that requires me to turn on F keys if I
want to use them in software. Yet with them turned off,
F10 opens Documents, F11 opens My Pictures, F12 opens
My Music... I accidentally hit them and it's a hassle. I've never
used any of those folders in any version of Windows. Is there
a way to disconnect that alignment?

   I deleted My Music and My Pictures, and so far that seems
to work, but I Documents holds numerous things, and F9 opens
the Computer window. So deleting is clearly not a solution.

Download and use Sharpkeys
https://github.com/randyrants/sharpkeys/releases

  Thanks. That could work, though I'd rather just find out
the relevant Registry settings and then decide which to use.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/f11-function-key-opens-file-explorer-and-doesnt/1b43c050-2aff-45fd-8f5c-0703fd52f625

That link redirects me to an MS login page, using either FF or Chromium.

"I ran a key testing application, and found that the key enumeration
for my f11 key was 182, which is the LaunchApplication1 key code.

I tried running a program to report keycode presses. The F keys
don't register a key-up or key-down event. Nor do I have NVidia graphics.




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On 12/26/2024 8:30 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

Tis possible the macro function is internal to the keyboard. That is,
when you enable F-lock, could be the keyboard itself uses an internal
macro to load explorer.exe to the Documents folder when F10 is pressed.

Which keyboard brand and model?

As I tried to explain, this happens when f-lock is NOT enabled.
When I enable it I get a keycode and can use that key
programmatically.

But I think you hit on the solution. I have software for my Logitech trackball. I happen to also have a Logitech keyboard that's quite a
bit older. I opened the applet for the trackball mouse and, sure
enough, there are also keyboard settings for F keys. Apparently
the applet that hooks the mouse also recognizes the keyboard.
I set all of the options to "Do Nothing" and it worked. Enabling f-lock
still works as expected. Thanks.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

But I think you hit on the solution. I have software for my Logitech trackball. I happen to also have a Logitech keyboard that's quite a
bit older. I opened the applet for the trackball mouse and, sure
enough, there are also keyboard settings for F keys. Apparently
the applet that hooks the mouse also recognizes the keyboard.
I set all of the options to "Do Nothing" and it worked. Enabling f-lock
still works as expected. Thanks.

I hadn't thought about the pointing device using the macro software, but
do remember when I before used a trackball that it had similar software.
Mostly I remember the select of "Do nothing" on some key intercepts (aka
remaps aka macros) to get the trackball's software from interferring
with with something else which must've been with the keyboard. I don't remember why I kept the ancilliary software. Maybe it was needed for
chording of the trackball buttons.

Thanks for the update. Nice to know there was a solution. I suspect
the same scenario could happen for the ancilliary software needed for multi-button mice (those with thumb and side buttons to add more than
the 2 main mouse buttons and 1 for pressing the scrollwheel). Those
employ macro software to define the actions committed upon the
other-button events, and they, too, could add more macro functions.
Eventually I dropped the trackball and multi-button mice to just go with standard 3-button mice.

The only trackball I remember liking was from Kensington, and before
they changed to the snooker-sized ball. It has stainless steel rollers,
and would keep spinning when I flicked the ball. Others had just too
much friction, or would bounce out when heavily impacted. Sometimes I
hit the ball so hard that it got scored on the steel rollers which left
a tiny gouge, but significant enough nuisance me when that scratch would
rub against a roller. However, the ball was replaceable, so I kept some
spares on hand.

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On 12/26/2024 10:18 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

Eventually I dropped the trackball and multi-button mice to just go with standard 3-button mice.

The only trackball I remember liking was from Kensington

I've used the "Logi" for many years. A lot of people here are
primarily keyboarders. I always use mouse for operations when
possible. I first learned to use computers with GUI and without
typing skills. The tracball allows for fast, extensive mousing
without needing to hold my arm up.

The software is needed to assign buttons, as you mentioned.
It also controls movement speed. I think newer Windows has
at least some of that, but the specific software for the trackball
is designed to work with this trackball. As I recall, the Windows
controls didn't work right. I've never actually used
the extra button or wheel, and in fact, I don't have a mouse or
trackball that has a wheel. But I do like to zip around quickly.

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