To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell prompt and adding a new reg value:
[Blah blah hoyvin-glayvin blah blah]
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 12:37:00 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your
Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell prompt and adding a new reg value:
[Blah blah hoyvin-glayvin blah blah]
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:
On 12/01/2025 23:23, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 12:37:00 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your >>>> Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell prompt and adding a new reg value:
[Blah blah hoyvin-glayvin blah blah]
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:
On 12/01/2025 23:23, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 12:37:00 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on your >>>> Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage cmdlet
with the PackageName parameter value Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell prompt and adding a new reg value:
[Blah blah hoyvin-glayvin blah blah]
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-13 16:32, Joel wrote:
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:
On 12/01/2025 23:23, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS,
you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available
for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
Joel wrote:
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:I agree. Plus it also counts as a religion, so you don't have to waste
On 12/01/2025 23:23, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 12:37:00 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
To remove the new Outlook app package after it's force installed on
your Windows device, you can use the Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage
cmdlet with the PackageName parameter value
Microsoft.OutlookForWindows.
This can be done by running the following command from a Windows
PowerShell prompt and adding a new reg value:
[Blah blah hoyvin-glayvin blah blah]
This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and expensive,
Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
time going to church anymore.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-13 17:54, Joel wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-13 16:32, Joel wrote:
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:
On 12/01/2025 23:23, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a >>>> fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive. >>>> After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS, >>>> you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available >>>> for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As
we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of
time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter
how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
My machine is an interesting example - if I'd stayed with Win10, it'd
be slammin', but then support would end relatively early in its life.
So upgrade to 11, great, until the bloat overtakes it, as in my view
it already began to with 23H2. Linux is the only way to solve this
dilemma.
My machine is an interesting example - if I'd stayed with Win10, it'd
be slammin', but then support would end relatively early in its life.
So upgrade to 11, great, until the bloat overtakes it, as in my view
it already began to with 23H2. Linux is the only way to solve this
dilemma.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-13 17:54, Joel wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-13 16:32, Joel wrote:
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:
On 12/01/2025 23:23, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a >>>> fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive. >>>> After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS, >>>> you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available >>>> for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As
we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of
time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter
how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
My machine is an interesting example - if I'd stayed with Win10, it'd
be slammin', but then support would end relatively early in its life.
So upgrade to 11, great, until the bloat overtakes it, as in my view
it already began to with 23H2. Linux is the only way to solve this
dilemma.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience.
On 2025-01-13 17:54, Joel wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-13 16:32, Joel wrote:
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:
On 12/01/2025 23:23, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS,
you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available
for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of
time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter
how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
Linux gets bloats every two weeks
and some people like it! I don't and so I solved the dilemma by moving
to Windows.
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 03:09:43 +0000, Manu Raju wrote:
Linux gets bloats every two weeks
and some people like it! I don't and so I solved the dilemma by moving
to Windows.
Windows is the one that needs regular defragging and running of dodgy
hacks like CCleaner etc. Linux does not.
On 2025-01-13 17:54, Joel wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-13 16:32, Joel wrote:
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:
On 12/01/2025 23:23, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a
fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive.
After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS,
you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available
for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of
time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter
how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
On 2025-01-14 00:10, CrudeSausage wrote:with unlimited support no matter how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of time. However, Linux has them both beat
Hum. That is not completely true, either. Some distributions stopped supporting 32 bit machines.
Each year you need more ram to run the same apps.
Proprietary drivers like NVidia stop publishing drivers for what they think is old hardware, and the open source version doesn't have the full feature set.
Modern videos use codecs that can not keep running fast enough on pathetic machines.
On Wed, 1/15/2025 7:51 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:with unlimited support no matter how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
On 2025-01-14 00:10, CrudeSausage wrote:
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of time. However, Linux has them both beat
Hum. That is not completely true, either. Some distributions stopped supporting 32 bit machines.
Each year you need more ram to run the same apps.
Proprietary drivers like NVidia stop publishing drivers for what they think is old hardware, and the open source version doesn't have the full feature set.
Modern videos use codecs that can not keep running fast enough on pathetic machines.
As long as the videos are coded in something that VAAPI or NVENC/NVDEC has, the movie can be decoded for "almost free". For example, Intel Quicksync
has sufficient horsepower, to decode five video streams at the same time,
on the early instances of that hardware block.
Old machines and their older video cards without NVidia driver support, might no
longer have access to the built-in encoder/decoder hardware on the video card,
in which case the fallback software method would be used instead.
Another contributor to "pathetic", is the video decoding process can use a "scaler" which changes a 720x576 decoded video, to whatever box size the browser presents at the time (the wrapper frame). Doing a pixmap scaler
in software, used at least 30% of a P4 core. Whereas the hardware scaler (driver support), could do a scaling operation "for free".
And finally, insisting on compositing as a system-wide way of doing things, if the video card compositing is not working and the OS has to use fallback code for that, that could take buckets of horsepower to do.
An old machine really needs the support. It isn't so much "pathetic" as it is everything working against it. "All the items are leaning the wrong way."
The code path has had IDCT removed, so when an old machine has been
stripped of all its goodness, the code doesn't even use the IDCT
(Inverse Discrete Cosine transform for macroblocks). That is a method of providing a slight acceleration, when forced to do video decode in software. The older software used to use that, as it helped a bit with the decoding process.
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
macOS is free. Just needs a $600 mac to run it on.
Windows Home preinstalled on volume-produced gear is virtually free, self-installed Linux completely free, but yes that "$600" you cite
isn't cheap for the device it buys. That OS upgrades are free is just
to incentivize buying/using an Apple device.
On 1/15/25 10:46 AM, Joel wrote:
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:Where said "isn't cheap" $600 is ~half what Joel's already spent...
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
macOS is free. Just needs a $600 mac to run it on.
Windows Home preinstalled on volume-produced gear is virtually free,
self-installed Linux completely free, but yes that "$600" you cite
isn't cheap for the device it buys. That OS upgrades are free is just
to incentivize buying/using an Apple device.
...or for when the Lady protests too much, after deducting off his
alleged $200 mistake of a second Windows OS license, roughly 50% less
($600 vs ($1150 - $200 = $950).
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 1/15/25 10:46 AM, Joel wrote:
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
macOS is free. Just needs a $600 mac to run it on.
Windows Home preinstalled on volume-produced gear is virtually free,
self-installed Linux completely free, but yes that "$600" you cite
isn't cheap for the device it buys. That OS upgrades are free is just
to incentivize buying/using an Apple device.
Where said "isn't cheap" $600 is ~half what Joel's already spent...
...or for when the Lady protests too much, after deducting off his
alleged $200 mistake of a second Windows OS license, roughly 50% less
($600 vs ($1150 - $200 = $950).
But don't let actual math get in one's way of a good narrative! /s
You keep including my monitor or video card or something, those were
choice add-ons that I could've trivially avoided with another HD
monitor.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 03:09:43 +0000, Manu Raju wrote:
Linux gets bloats every two weeks and some people like it! I don't
and so I solved the dilemma by moving to Windows.
Windows is the one that needs regular defragging and running of dodgy
hacks like CCleaner etc. Linux does not.
I never needed that with Windows, but reinstalling ended up happening,
from time to time.
Hum. That is not completely true, either. Some distributions stopped supporting 32 bit machines.
On Wed, 1/15/2025 6:14 PM, rbowman wrote:Enjoy your posts Paul.
On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 10:40:14 -0500, Joel wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 03:09:43 +0000, Manu Raju wrote:
Linux gets bloats every two weeks and some people like it! I don't
and so I solved the dilemma by moving to Windows.
Windows is the one that needs regular defragging and running of dodgy
hacks like CCleaner etc. Linux does not.
I never needed that with Windows, but reinstalling ended up happening,
from time to time.
I haven't bothered with dual boot in a long time but the problem with a
Windows install that had been running for any length of time was it left
pecker tracks all over the HDD. You had to defrag to get enough free
storage all in one place.
Not in evidence.
The writer tends to maintain a couple of zones. Some
of the larger files seem to end up above, a lot of the smaller files
are below. The NTFS file system has a "reserved" area, which
interferes with operation of the partition, as the partition fills up.
This is why, quite frequently, patterns which should not create fragments, result in "yellow" in a partition that should not have been there. The reserved area starts at a certain size, and the amount of reservation
changes as the space fills up. For people who like their files packed
like sardines, they are most put out by this development :-)
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/YCDLWmkB/Windows-SSD-fragmentation.gif
These sample OSes are all on SSDs, where the rule is, you do not defragment them.
(SSDs get TRIM, instead.) The OS still has the right to defragment them,
if slow-COW conditions are detected. That should not have happened to these.
The top two panes are from a newer AMD system. The bottom two panes
are from the 4930K ten year old computer.
The "red line" is an item that cannot be moved by the defragmentation
tool used to make these pictures. I use the tool for taking pictures,
when these particular devices are involved. The fragmentation means
nothing (at this light level of fragmentation) to performance.
The "red line" can also not be moved by the windows Disk Management
"shrink function". It can shrink to about 50% of the original partition space, when a partition does not have a lot of files. In the "red line example"
at the bottom, the Disk Management will shrink to 50%, while other methods will shrink to 33% or so. The shrinking process stops when it hits
that red line.
Generally, if the program doing the shrink is doing it in an offline
fashion, that gives much better control than when the Windows one attempts
to do it online ("hot" shrink). Thus, gparted can shrink the red line pane, to the 33% number without too much delay.
It's the same with zeroing functions. The Windows third party tool is "sdelete64.exe" and it zeros a partition while the partition remains
mounted. Whereas Linux "zerofree" does this same kind of function
on unmounted partitions.
One reason the Windows people like to show off with their
functions such as shrink, is they're implemented with the
data-safe defragmenter API. Which was originally written
by a third party, but was good enough for Microsoft to buy
it and put it in the OS as a library. Everybody and his dog
uses that library. It would be "extra work" for somebody
to write an offline version of the tool instead :-) The tool
that took the green pictures, also uses that library.
There's still plenty of room to work on those partitions.
On this sample data partition, this shows how the writer
is filling in the holes, and the two "air holes" are likely
a result of the reserved space handling. Again, being on an
SSD, no attempt has ever been made to defragment the thing.
And the green, is files which are contiguous and their
clusters are in cluster-order. The yellow ones are "largely ordered",
but as soon as one cluster goes out of line for such a file,
the whole file will be yellow. Considering "how evil" fragmentation
is, you don't see a lot of fragmentation there.
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/wjRgwtLp/Sample-Data-Partition.gif
*******
This picture was done seven years ago. The top two panes are
performance on a RAMdrive. Running a checksum program on
a large file, one with a lot of fragments, one with no fragments,
there is hardly any speed difference to the performance of the
checksum program when we are measuring the file system stack
penalty for fragments.
[Picture} Top two panes = RAMDrive, bottom two panes = SATA SSD
https://i.postimg.cc/ry7VnwF7/fragmentation.gif
Whereas the bottom case, the seek time on an SSD could be 20 microseconds
or so. And then the SSD speed does have an impact on the read rate of
the checksumming process. When doing these experiments, you do a bit of fiddling first to clear the System Read cache.
No attempt was made to run that on a HDD, as the results would
be quite bad on an HDD. The rattling noise that would make, would
get on my nerves.
And the pattern on the storage there, was done with a purpose-built pathological tool. I wasn't doing my income taxes to make that pattern. Regular disk usage does not fragment like that.
Is Windows cheating to make relatively good-looking partitions ?
It's possible. I do not normally see suspicious patterns of the
drive light, hinting that some rearranging is going on. The write
algo has changed since WinXP days, whatever it is. Leaving holes
in the cheese, seems to have something to do with later placing
small files in the holes.
Paul
On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 10:40:14 -0500, Joel wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 03:09:43 +0000, Manu Raju wrote:
Linux gets bloats every two weeks and some people like it! I don't
and so I solved the dilemma by moving to Windows.
Windows is the one that needs regular defragging and running of dodgy
hacks like CCleaner etc. Linux does not.
I never needed that with Windows, but reinstalling ended up happening,
from time to time.
I haven't bothered with dual boot in a long time but the problem with a Windows install that had been running for any length of time was it left pecker tracks all over the HDD. You had to defrag to get enough free
storage all in one place.
On 1/15/25 2:32 PM, Joel wrote:vs your $850 spent
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 1/15/25 10:46 AM, Joel wrote:
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
macOS is free. Just needs a $600 mac to run it on.
Windows Home preinstalled on volume-produced gear is virtually free,
self-installed Linux completely free, but yes that "$600" you cite
isn't cheap for the device it buys. That OS upgrades are free is just >>>> to incentivize buying/using an Apple device.
Where said "isn't cheap" $600 is ~half what Joel's already spent...
...or for when the Lady protests too much, after deducting off his
alleged $200 mistake of a second Windows OS license, roughly 50% less
($600 vs ($1150 - $200 = $950).
But don't let actual math get in one's way of a good narrative! /s
You keep including my monitor or video card or something, those were
choice add-ons that I could've trivially avoided with another HD
monitor.
Monitor? Nope.
Video Card? Yup: because you said that even though you'd researched your gear, you quickly realized that you screwed up as the i5's included one was inadequate for your desires. But even if we subtract off the $100 you spent here, its still $600
But do feel free to provide a detailed cost list.
Because even the $100 you spent on the video card is subtracted off too, your $850 spent is still higher than $600, but now its only by +30%.
-hh
IMO the mini had historically been Apple's product to promote desktop customers to migrate from Windows, but its shortcomings have centered
around how 90% of the market ignored it because it wasn't a laptop, and
the other 10% are tower fetish geeks who were offended because it
couldn't easily address every possible niche/corner use case.
On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 12:33:26 -0500, -hh wrote:
IMO the mini had historically been Apple's product to promote desktop
customers to migrate from Windows, but its shortcomings have centered
around how 90% of the market ignored it because it wasn't a laptop, and
the other 10% are tower fetish geeks who were offended because it
couldn't easily address every possible niche/corner use case.
Everything Apple sells in its “Macintosh” range is effectively a laptop now, just packaged differently. In its move to ARM chips, it has
completely sacrificed all the traditional expandability that came with desktop/workstation machines.
On Wed, 1/15/2025 3:52 PM, -hh wrote:
...
But do feel free to provide a detailed cost list.
Because even the $100 you spent on the video card is
subtracted off too, your $850 spent is still higher
than $600, but now its only by +30%.
But you have control of your expenses.
It all depends on your objectives and budget.
An upgrade could be $500 or it could be $2000.
If you build your own computers, you can reusePSU, computer case (my daily driver case is 25 years old),
keyboard, mouse, and so on. My daily driver case, I think
that's about the fourth motherboard.
The trick to hitting points like this, is to look
at trailing-edge parts. When the kids are buying DDR5
systems, you buy a DDR4 system. As long as the market
has some legs, a few reduced-cost motherboards will be
issued in a second wave (intended to "mop up" the
old processors), offering a small savings. The RAM can
be cheaper to quite a lot cheaper, than the current generation
RAM (DDR5).
The enthusiast sites have more info, if you need it.
On 1/15/25 7:34 PM, Paul wrote:
The enthusiast sites have more info, if you need it.
https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-pc-builds-gaming
$500 computer is a "budget" computer these days? Hehe :)
On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:51:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Hum. That is not completely true, either. Some distributions stopped
supporting 32 bit machines.
The only one I came across was Debian. The machine itself was 64-bit but
our legacy code was 32-bit, as was Esri's ArcObjects. I think Ubuntu 18.04 was the last release where you had a prayer of finding 32-bit Motif
libraries and others. It's all fine to pass the 32-bit flag to gcc but if
you can't link the libs you're done.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-13 17:54, Joel wrote:
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-01-13 16:32, Joel wrote:
MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:
On 12/01/2025 23:23, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
So which OS do you choose to expend your valuable time on?
Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.
Linux is the only option worth pursuing. macOS is weird and
expensive, Windows is bloatware beyond belief.
There's not much to pursue in MacOS. It works as it should and it is a >>>> fairly pleasant experience. However, I would agree that it's expensive. >>>> After a while, you'll need tools to do additional things and on MacOS, >>>> you're going to be paying money in most cases. Open-source is available >>>> for it too, mind you.
I just dislike Windows and macOS, it might be my own opinion but it's
right for me.
MacOS machines have a shelf life of about seven years before Apple
decides that your machine is no longer worth supporting with updates. As
we've seen, Windows machines get about seven, so it's a fair amount of
time. However, Linux has them both beat with unlimited support no matter
how pathetic the machine you're running it on is.
Only if you're prepared to handroll backports etc. Realistically, linux is also 5-7 years. Most LTS is 5 years.
The hardest thing is trying to keep gcc up to date. At some point too many glibc dependencies break and you can't compile any new kernel updates.
Of course. Overall, a challenge with the DIY topic is differences in motivation: is the DIY because money's tight? Or is the motivation because tinkering with hardware is an entertaining hobby/pastime?
Both motivations can & do exist, and can get conflated in discussions.
You're in control of the build. If something breaks,
you're in control of the repair too. No returning a unit three times,
hearing "no fault found", haranguing tech support for a replacement
machine and so on. Think of the hair loss saved.
I don't want to use anyones "warranty service".
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/ry0VWG7J/home-build-what-you-want.gif
Paul
-hh wrote:
Of course. Overall, a challenge with the DIY topic is differences in motivation:
is the DIY because money's tight? Or is the motivation because tinkering with
hardware is an entertaining hobby/pastime?
Both motivations can & do exist, and can get conflated in discussions.
The motivation, is we don't want to buy shit.
Do I want a Dell with a four phase VCore, when
I can have a twenty four phase VCore on an
expensive motherboard ?
Do I want a 230W power supply on a Dell, when
I can pick up an 850W power supply at Best Buy ?
Now, I can plug in an RTX4090 when I want to.
On the Dell, that's... impossible (even if you
went out and bought the 850W supply, it probably
would not fit in the small Dell case, neither would
the Dell cooling system be adequate for the thermal
load and there wouldn't even be a mounting location
for a fan to be added).
When you do a build, you control everything, and
no screwing around or taking shortcuts.
Well, what the salesman didn't tell the gaming lady,
is that the owner will beat the piss out of the laptop
and it will be knackered after only four years. While you
are having a gaming experience, it won't last.
On Thu, 1/16/2025 6:22 AM, -hh wrote:
Of course. Overall, a challenge with the DIY topic is
differences in motivation: is the DIY because money's tight?
Or is the motivation because tinkering with hardware is an
entertaining hobby/pastime?
Both motivations can & do exist, and can get conflated in discussions.
The motivation, is we don't want to buy shit.
Do I want a Dell with a four phase VCore, when
I can have a twenty four phase VCore on an
expensive motherboard ?
Do I want a 230W power supply on a Dell, when
I can pick up an 850W power supply at Best Buy ?
Now, I can plug in an RTX4090 when I want to.
On the Dell, that's... impossible (even if you
went out and bought the 850W supply, it probably
would not fit in the small Dell case, neither would
the Dell cooling system be adequate for the thermal
load and there wouldn't even be a mounting location
for a fan to be added).
When you do a build, you control everything, and
no screwing around or taking shortcuts.
Let's take an example, Mr.LaptopMan.
Take the lady
in the computer store the other day, a salesman
explaining to her that "the laptop with the 4070
is faster than the laptop with the 4060" for gaming.
Well, what the salesman didn't tell the gaming lady,
is that the owner will beat the piss out of the laptop
and it will be knackered after only four years. While you
are having a gaming experience, it won't last.
Whereas, with a desktop, if I wear the keycaps off my
keyboard playing Tetris, I just swap keyboards, takes
about ten seconds. If the video cards burns the
connector off, chuck it on the table, pop in another.
And if I want four NVMe storage, I can pop in a board
with four sleds on it, and boom, done.
With this, I could install twenty four NVMe on six cards.
"Asus Pro WS W790E-SAGE SE"
https://dlcdnwebimgs.asus.com/gain/f8c9b3f4-1a07-4645-aa79-594c48bd4090/w692
(Note desktop I/O style on the left)
https://dlcdnwebimgs.asus.com/files/media/35d86ad4-c99a-49d7-b8bb-09601ad49164/images/swiper_left.png
You're in control of the build. If something breaks,
you're in control of the repair too. No returning a unit
three times, hearing "no fault found", haranguing tech
support for a replacement machine and so on. Think of
the hair loss saved.
I don't want to use anyones "warranty service".
On 1/16/25 5:42 AM, -hh wrote:
On 1/16/25 1:41 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:
On 1/15/25 7:34 PM, Paul wrote:
The enthusiast sites have more info, if you need it.
https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-pc-builds-gaming
$500 computer is a "budget" computer these days? Hehe :)
Sure is.
In 1981, IBM's original PC 5150 debuted at $2,880 for a 64K system
with one floppy drive. In today's dollars, that would be a shade over
$10K.
Back in that era, PC Magazine's editor Bill Machrone quipped:
"the computer you want always costs $5,000."
And 1984's price buster of the TI-99/4A started at $525. What
percentage of your gross monthly pay was $525 back in 1984?
Don't know about you, but for me, it would've been around 33%.
-hh
$525 was about half of what I made in 1984. Back then I was getting $700
and something per month for TA/RA work in school. I also made money by tutoring ($75 per sitting no matter how long the sitting lasted - rarely
over 4 hours). I had at least one tutoring session per week, so that was another $300 a month. So about $1000 per month, and I lived comfortably (money-wise that is - in reality I was conducting a tough as well as
quite challenging life in graduate school).
But you (and I so far in this post) are digressing from the point I made.
I didn't pay "$525" for a computer in 1984. {stores of salvage}
Do you get the picture?
I don't need a $5000 computer for any reason under the sky, not even a
$500 computer. Those who need them must want to do a Jupiter flyby :)
Right now I'm using a computer that I bought last week for $12 in a _thrift_store.
in reality I was conducting a tough as well as
quite challenging life in graduate school).
The Windows defragmenter is a pretty clever design now.
On 2025-01-16 00:20, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 13:51:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Hum. That is not completely true, either. Some distributions stopped
supporting 32 bit machines.
The only one I came across was Debian. The machine itself was 64-bit
but our legacy code was 32-bit, as was Esri's ArcObjects. I think
Ubuntu 18.04 was the last release where you had a prayer of finding
32-bit Motif libraries and others. It's all fine to pass the 32-bit
flag to gcc but if you can't link the libs you're done.
openSUSE Tumbleweed still has a 32 bit version, I believe.
I think us DIY guys tend to overspend and overbuild our systems. So we
don't save any money, but they are better-built.
On 1/16/25 3:34 PM, -hh wrote:
but $25K today buys a new Civic or another "budget" car.
$25K car is a "budget" car these days? Hehe :-)
The last car I bought is a Toyota Echo 2002, in 2017, for $1600.
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 12:28:47 -0600, chrisv wrote:
I think us DIY guys tend to overspend and overbuild our systems. So we
don't save any money, but they are better-built.
I keep looking at the Antec Sonata case gathering dust and think I should
do something with it. The case is probably as obsolete as whatever is in
it. It does have an upgraded PS since the heavily hyped Antec PS was one
of a batch with a high failure rate.
Then reality sets in. What would I do with it? I'm not a gamer. That
reality set in when the video card failed and all I could find in the
local shops were Hyper-Phaze Mark 7 Dual Thrusters that were about $200
more than I was going to pay for a generic card.
I wrote programs on them that I'm still using today!
For one, a calendar conversion program I wrote handled conversions
between Iranian lunar, Iranian solar, the Gregorian and before that the Julian solar dates nicely. Maximum error just one day! And you could go
back in time even to the days of Darius if you insisted, cause I also
took into account the precession of the Earth's rotational axis. I know
of no calendar inversion software (accessible to public) that does that. They'll get even the season wrong if you go back that far, let alone the
day.
From today's craigslist:
https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/d/lewisville-2009-toyota-yaris-hatchback/7815953954.html
2009 Toyota Yaris. A nice used car for just $1500. Right there about 20 >minutes drive from me to go get it. If I had any serious problem with my
Echo 2002, I would jump on this one.
Physfitfreak wrote:
From today's craigslist:
https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/d/lewisville-2009-toyota-yaris-hatchback/7815953954.html
2009 Toyota Yaris. A nice used car for just $1500. Right there about 20 >>minutes drive from me to go get it. If I had any serious problem with my >>Echo 2002, I would jump on this one.
That's Chris A's old car, so it's probably never exceded the speed
limit.
On 1/16/25 9:40 PM, -hh wrote:
On 1/16/25 5:56 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:
On 1/16/25 3:34 PM, -hh wrote:
but $25K today buys a new Civic or another "budget" car.
$25K car is a "budget" car these days? Hehe :-)
New car, just like how the conversation was originally about new PCs.
And yes, 'budget' in the context of new car prices, since Edmunds'
3Q24 report found that the average new car in the USA cost $47,542.
And FYI, average used car price was $27,177.
The last car I bought is a Toyota Echo 2002, in 2017, for $1600.
Bully for you. Did it include a radio? My first car didn't.
From today's craigslist:
https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/d/lewisville-2009-toyota-yaris- hatchback/7815953954.html
2009 Toyota Yaris. A nice used car for just $1500. Right there about 20 minutes drive from me to go get it. If I had any serious problem with my
Echo 2002, I would jump on this one.
A used car is worth, and priced, between $1500 to $2000. Anything above
that is a rip off. A computer is worth between $70 and $80.
And at the bottom of it, ANY car above $2000 and ANY computer above $80
is a rip off. New or used. That's my main point. You guys have bad
habits.
You guys have bad
habits. You're like those psycho Shoe freaks. Or those who lose their
savings buying stocks that aren't worth what they're paying for. You
don't know what you're doing, and others smarter than you, or rather are simply healthy in mind, are taking advantage of that.
In how many different ways have I pointed to this fact? Blows my mind.
Even if you accurately count the number of days past since, say, the day
with date 1/17/1700, it won't mean you have all the information about
that day's correct location in that year; because, Earth's tilted axis
of rotation is not along a fixed direction. The axis wobbles, or
"precesses" all the time. So a historian who wrote down the date as
1/17/1700 on that day, will slightly be in a different time of the year compared to the present day's 1/17/2025.
As long as the difference falls below one day, this is not that
important. But if you go back farther in time to Darius's era, this difference places you in a different season of the year. A historian who according to your calculations would've written down the date 1/17/-1500
in his notes, was not on the January 17th of that year! He was in
another season of that year. Therefore your calculated result of
1/17/-1500 is meaningless.
This may look a rather simple astronomy problem, but when you want to
program it, it gets tough sometimes. And there are options to take to
correct the discrepancies. I took the option of modifying the length of
a day just enough to take care of precession of the axis of rotation of Earth, as well as of course its orbiting around the sun (which by itself introduces one day of discrepancy per year.)
On 1/17/25 2:57 PM, -hh wrote:
On 1/17/25 3:04 AM, Physfitfreak wrote:
On 1/16/25 9:40 PM, -hh wrote:
On 1/16/25 5:56 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:
On 1/16/25 3:34 PM, -hh wrote:
but $25K today buys a new Civic or another "budget" car.
$25K car is a "budget" car these days? Hehe :-)
New car, just like how the conversation was originally about new PCs.
And yes, 'budget' in the context of new car prices, since Edmunds'
3Q24 report found that the average new car in the USA cost $47,542.
And FYI, average used car price was $27,177.
The last car I bought is a Toyota Echo 2002, in 2017, for $1600.
Bully for you. Did it include a radio? My first car didn't.
From today's craigslist:
https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/d/lewisville-2009-toyota-yaris-
hatchback/7815953954.html
2009 Toyota Yaris. A nice used car for just $1500. Right there about
20 minutes drive from me to go get it. If I had any serious problem
with my Echo 2002, I would jump on this one.
A used car is worth, and priced, between $1500 to $2000. Anything
above that is a rip off. A computer is worth between $70 and $80.
And at the bottom of it, ANY car above $2000 and ANY computer above
$80 is a rip off. New or used. That's my main point. You guys have
bad habits.
If something really is a "ripoff" depends on many more factors than
merely if it minimally meets your personal transportation needs.
For example, when someone isn't personally handy with doing DIY
roadside repairs, how does that change selection criteria? Ditto for
other factors, such as to reliably arriving at work on time. Or
driving through remote regions without being stranded, or even just
though unsafe urban neighborhoods. Plus seating for how many
passengers? Need heat? Snow tires? Or summer A/C? Handicapped?
There's a wide variety of what constitutes "good enough"
transportation across a population.
And sure, one can keep a car running forever with enough maintenance,
but that's not free, nor constant per mile: as costs change and
accumulate, there's a cost-benefit trade-off decision for where
vehicular replacement can become the more fiscally prudent choice than
the sum of various maintenance costs (including time spent) to keep
the old Yaris on the road vs junking it and getting another one.
Likewise, you can also choose to go buy another used vehicle with its
unknown history/reliability and spend whatever time & money again to
make it sufficiently reliable/etc ... but it again comes back to the
question of if that's how you want to spend your time vs pursuit of
other endeavors/interests.
You guys have bad habits. You're like those psycho Shoe freaks. Or
those who lose their savings buying stocks that aren't worth what
they're paying for. You don't know what you're doing, and others
smarter than you, or rather are simply healthy in mind, are taking
advantage of that.
Not at all, for much of the point here is that everything can be
simplified down to a "Make, or Buy" kind of decision point: want to
keep on making your DIY repairs on PCs & cars? No one is stopping
you. But trying to call everyone else a fool because they've not made
the same choices you have is what's inappropriate. Particularly for
anyone who's ever paid someone to prepare a meal instead of making it
themselves.
In how many different ways have I pointed to this fact? Blows my mind.
As many as you think you'll have to, in order to keep deflecting from
the original "new vs new" cost comparison, and how PCs costs have come
way down in price ... because this also includes the used ones which
have also become cheaper over the years too.
-hh
With some people I have to exaggerate to show my point.
... Some pay $80k for an automobile! I know what drives you.
On 1/16/25 12:40 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Everything Apple sells in its “Macintosh” range is effectively a laptop >> now, just packaged differently. In its move to ARM chips, it has
completely sacrificed all the traditional expandability that came with
desktop/workstation machines.
Yeah, so?
Over 80% of the total PC market today are laptops.
The old school paradigm of getting elbows-deep into component upgrades
is a niche that's going to continue to be considered irrelevant by the mainstream ...
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