• Differences between versions

    From Newyana2@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 8 19:26:05 2025
    I have an old Win7 Dell that I updated to Win1020H2. 22H2
    refused to do anything but a fresh install, but 20H2 updated
    and accepted the OEM license.

    I decided to then test updating from 20H2 to 22H2. No go.
    Then I was reading that the system files are identical from
    2004 to 22H2.

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5015684-featured-update-to-windows-10-version-22h2-by-using-an-enablement-package-09d43632-f438-47b5-985e-d6fd704eee61

    So now I'm curious. Is there any official listing of what's different?
    I assume that I'm missing a lot of security updates in 20H2
    that I won't be able to get, but is there anything else noteworthy?
    I remove Edge and Apps, so none of that matters to me. I had
    assumed that each year updated system files. Has there really been
    no change aside from fluff and security patches in 5 years?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 8 23:28:47 2025
    On Sat, 2/8/2025 7:26 PM, Newyana2 wrote:
       I have an old Win7 Dell that I updated to Win1020H2. 22H2
    refused to do anything but a fresh install, but 20H2 updated
    and accepted the OEM license.

      I decided to then test updating from 20H2 to 22H2. No go.
    Then I was reading that the system files are identical from
    2004 to 22H2.

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/kb5015684-featured-update-to-windows-10-version-22h2-by-using-an-enablement-package-09d43632-f438-47b5-985e-d6fd704eee61

      So now I'm curious. Is there any official listing of what's different?
    I assume that I'm missing a lot of security updates in 20H2
    that I won't be able to get, but is there anything else noteworthy?
    I remove Edge and Apps, so none of that matters to me. I had
    assumed that each year updated system files. Has there really been
    no change aside from fluff and security patches in 5 years?

    19H2 November 2019 Update 18363
    20H1 May 2020 Update 19041 \
    20H2 October 2020 Update 19042 \
    21H1 May 2021 Update 19043 \___ Funny numeric pattern
    21H2 November 2021 Update 19044 /
    22H2 2022 Update 19045 /

    Graphics card: DirectX 9 or later with WDDM 1.0 driver

    You may be able to update to 21H2, as it is
    possible that 22H2 kicked out XDDM graphics
    drivers. My Optiplex 780, to get 22H2 to install
    on it, I added a video card that barely met the
    requirements (it has a WDDM 1.1 driver).

    Currently supported video cards are WDDM 3.3 or better,
    to give some idea what version is supported now. There
    is support for DirectX 12 Ultimate (whatever that means).

    while you could use Rufus and try to update to 22H2,
    there is no specific leverage in Rufus for old graphics
    subsystems. The Optiplex 780 had Q45, which is GMA 4500,
    a rather crapulent iGPU. That's slightly before Intel
    learned how to make GPUs.

    https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005581/graphics.html

    If you have a laptop, it's rather difficult to update
    the graphics. A USB DisplayLink adapter nominally
    is "graphics", but I don't think the subsystem support
    is quite good enough to fool the Windows installer :-)

    Laptops no longer have ExpressCard slots, that I have seen,
    so there is no "sneaky way" of adding a display adapter "box"
    to the side of the laptop. The M.2 NVMe slot might work, as a
    source of lanes for the task, but then, if you have an M.2,
    then chances are your graphics are good enough for the job
    of passing any tests.

    My single core laptop, I don't think the graphics are in
    such good shape, but the acceleration offered might be
    slightly better than the Optiplex 780.

    *******

    The DXdiag.exe executable in your OS, the Display tab tells
    you what XDDM or WDDM driver level the machine is at currently.
    That might hint at how dire the graphics are.

    There is CPU-Z (cpuid.com , portable version) and GPU-Z
    (techpowerup.com is the drop site of the developer of it).
    CPU-Z can give you a good idea of what hardware you've got,
    for these OS-level issues. GPU-Z merely adds the necessary
    "color commentary" on subsystem specifics ("do I have PHYSX").

    Those three might prepare you a bit for hardware issues.

    *******

    The OS is a rolling release, with random changes.
    What ever gave you the idea it actually stood still :-)
    The kernel is constantly being patched. And based
    on feedback from VirtualBox devs, even kernel calls
    have had the number of parameters in a call changed,
    as an example of what they've had to deal with.

    Even if you look in WinSxS and you find four different
    versions of a library, is it safe to assume the API is
    the same on all of them ? Knowing how developers think,
    the answer to that is "No". The last time I had people
    who cared about compatibility, it was on SunOS 4.1.3U1 .

    One of the reasons we have version control systems,
    is to let fools move fast and break things. The version control,
    the dependency analysis, is the "cleanup in aisle three".
    Just how Windows Defender interacts with a system, has
    to take into account discovered exploits. And some things
    have to be changed out of necessity (CVE at the 10 level).

    Summary: I would make an effort to get the "max support"
    out of my OS. Even if in my case, it meant fishing
    a vid card out of the junk room to do it.

    At the moment, I don't see a reason you could not
    get to 21H2.

    You should keep a series of DVDs, when approaching
    end of life for an OS. If you notice some funny
    "slowing down" behavior, then use an older version
    of the OS to get a bit of performance back again.
    I'm not proposing installing a copy of 9928, but I
    bet it runs faster :-)

    There's only 270GB of OS DVDs on my computer.
    What a pauper. There is another terabyte of them
    across the room.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to Paul on Sun Feb 9 08:25:43 2025
    On 2/8/2025 11:28 PM, Paul wrote:

    19H2 November 2019 Update 18363
    20H1 May 2020 Update 19041 \
    20H2 October 2020 Update 19042 \
    21H1 May 2021 Update 19043 \___ Funny numeric pattern
    21H2 November 2021 Update 19044 /
    22H2 2022 Update 19045 /

    Graphics card: DirectX 9 or later with WDDM 1.0 driver

    You may be able to update to 21H2, as it is
    possible that 22H2 kicked out XDDM graphics
    drivers. My Optiplex 780, to get 22H2 to install
    on it, I added a video card that barely met the
    requirements (it has a WDDM 1.1 driver).


    21H2 might work. I haven't tried it. When 22H2 wouldn't do an
    update I just tried 20H2. I've tried 22H2 mounting the ISO and
    booting from a rufused stick. The hardware doesn't seem to
    be an issue. It just says it will only do a fresh install because
    "Windows might be installed to the wrong location or I might
    be trying to install an older OS."

    I'm guessing that the problem is only that it recognizes a former
    Win7 install and the free upgrade days for 22H2 are over. I'd
    thought that it might update from 20H2, but of course it's still
    a Win7 computer.

    So that got me to wondering whether there was really any
    advantage, aside from security patches, in getting a later
    version. I assume that 20H2 will support the same software as
    22H2. I've never seen specs saying anything like "Requires
    Windows 10 22H2 or Windows 11".

    The OS is a rolling release, with random changes.
    What ever gave you the idea it actually stood still :-)
    The kernel is constantly being patched. And based
    on feedback from VirtualBox devs, even kernel calls
    have had the number of parameters in a call changed,
    as an example of what they've had to deal with.

    Even if you look in WinSxS and you find four different
    versions of a library, is it safe to assume the API is
    the same on all of them ? Knowing how developers think,
    the answer to that is "No". The last time I had people
    who cared about compatibility, it was on SunOS 4.1.3U1 .


    You're talking about basic Win32 API calls to kernel32?
    I've never seen them break any published API that I can
    remember. I know that they go out of their way to break
    unpublished functionality. (Spite?) But not published. That's
    going back to 1995. If they broke them then old software
    wouldn't run and corporate customers would be very angry
    when their in-house-developed database programs broke.

    One of the reasons we have version control systems,
    is to let fools move fast and break things. The version control,
    the dependency analysis, is the "cleanup in aisle three".
    Just how Windows Defender interacts with a system, has
    to take into account discovered exploits. And some things
    have to be changed out of necessity (CVE at the 10 level).


    Funny side note: I was looking at the Windows Defender
    settings yesterday. It listed dozens of identified malware
    files. I looked at what it wanted to get rid of. It turns out
    it had scanned all partitions and flagged things like my own
    VBScripts for editing the HOSTS file.

    At the moment, I don't see a reason you could not
    get to 21H2.

    You should keep a series of DVDs, when approaching
    end of life for an OS. If you notice some funny
    "slowing down" behavior, then use an older version
    of the OS to get a bit of performance back again.
    I'm not proposing installing a copy of 9928, but I
    bet it runs faster :-)


    I'm dual booting 20H2 and the original Win7. It's from 2010,
    but it was a jazzed up box at the time and hasn't been used
    much. I have disk images for both installs. I'm mainly only
    using it to stream Netflix and old movies downloaded from
    archive.org. (Last week was Desire, with Gary Cooper and
    Marlene Dietrich. :) The Win10 update was with Netflix in mind,
    in case they stop supporting FF115. I don't need it to run
    like a work computer. Just streaming and a bit of going online
    with a browser. So 20H2 is probably fine. On the other hand, it's
    cold and snowy here, so it's a good day to try 21H2.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From MR@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 9 16:51:03 2025
    On 09/02/2025 13:25, Newyana2 wrote:

    I've tried 22H2 mounting the ISO and
    booting from a rufused stick.

    To upgrade any Windows 10 or Windows 11, you always run "setup.exe".

    If you boot from a flash drive then your only option is clean install of
    the operating System.

    Mounting ISO allows you to run Setup.exe so I don't understand what do
    you mean by booting from rufused stick. Did you create a bootable flash
    drive using the tool called Rufus? If so then there must be a Setup.exe
    file at the root of the flash drive.

    I'd
    thought that it might update from 20H2, but of course it's still
    a Win7 computer.

    If 20H2 was installed and activated then there is no need to talk about
    Win7. The license has become a digital one and so the Microsoft servers
    will recognise your machine if you use the same machine as 20H2. It
    looks like you are upgrading the wrong way. Just run setup.exe file and
    follow the instructions on the screen. Pay particular attention to keep
    all Apps and personal data but don't download updates when doing this.
    Updates can slow things down and people get frustrated if the HDD is
    slow. SSD or M.2 drives are pretty fast for most people. I buy Orico
    brand because their products are quite reasonable and Amazon sometimes
    gives you up to 20% discount but you have to pay attention to the small
    print on Amazon website.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 9 13:36:05 2025
    On 2/9/2025 11:51 AM, MR wrote:

    If you boot from a flash drive then your only option is clean install of
    the operating System.

    Mounting ISO allows you to run Setup.exe so I don't understand what do
    you mean by booting from rufused stick. Did you create a bootable flash
    drive using the tool called Rufus? If so then there must be a Setup.exe
    file at the root of the flash drive.

    As I mentioned in the first post, I trien mounting the ISO
    and running setup.exe. That didn't work, so I tried a USB stick
    for good measure. It refused to do anything but a clean install
    in both cases, so I suspect the 22H2 installer is refusing an
    update because the systenm was originally Win7.

    If 20H2 was installed and activated then there is no need to talk about
    Win7. The license has become a digital one and so the Microsoft servers
    will recognise your machine if you use the same machine as 20H2.

    Apparently that's not the case. I've done this before, running
    setup.exe from a mounted ISO, so I know how to do it. But this time
    it doesn't give me the option of saving files. Only clean install.
    That would likely mean needing a new license.

    At any rate, I'm not uncertain about that part. I'm just curious
    about what substantial difference there is between 20H2 and 22H2.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 9 15:23:04 2025
    On Sun, 2/9/2025 1:36 PM, Newyana2 wrote:
    On 2/9/2025 11:51 AM, MR wrote:

    If you boot from a flash drive then your only option is clean install of
    the operating System.

    Mounting ISO allows you to run Setup.exe so I don't understand what do
    you mean by booting from rufused stick. Did you create a bootable flash
    drive using the tool called Rufus? If so then there must be a Setup.exe
    file at the root of the flash drive.

       As I mentioned in the first post, I trien mounting the ISO
    and running setup.exe. That didn't work, so I tried a USB stick
    for good measure. It refused to do anything but a clean install
    in both cases, so I suspect the 22H2 installer is refusing an
    update because the systenm was originally Win7.

    If 20H2 was installed and activated then there is no need to talk about
    Win7. The license has become a digital one and so the Microsoft servers
    will recognise your machine if you use the same machine as 20H2.

      Apparently that's not the case. I've done this before, running
    setup.exe from a mounted ISO, so I know how to do it. But this time
    it doesn't give me the option of saving files. Only clean install.
    That would likely mean needing a new license.

       At any rate, I'm not uncertain about that part. I'm just curious
    about what substantial difference there is between 20H2 and 22H2.

    I would start looking for logfiles, and try and figure out
    why it is doing that.

    Remember that the Windows directory changes to Windows.old
    and a new Windows directory is created. So at some level,
    the Windows 7 aspect should be "flushed" out of the system.

    If you try and take the Win10 version *backwards*, it will likely
    respond by requesting a "Clean Install". I don't think it
    necessarily has migration logic for going backwards. But it
    really should be able to handle it. It's just untested.

    If the version of the offered media (ISO or USB "setup.exe")
    is the same version as currently installed, or a higher
    version, then it should accept a "preserve files and programs"
    option for that install.

    My guess is the "backwards version move" is what is
    upsetting it. But otherwise, start looking for .log files .

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to Paul on Sun Feb 9 16:18:25 2025
    On 2/9/2025 3:23 PM, Paul wrote:
    On Sun, 2/9/2025 1:36 PM, Newyana2 wrote:
    On 2/9/2025 11:51 AM, MR wrote:

    If you boot from a flash drive then your only option is clean install of >>> the operating System.

    Mounting ISO allows you to run Setup.exe so I don't understand what do
    you mean by booting from rufused stick. Did you create a bootable flash
    drive using the tool called Rufus? If so then there must be a Setup.exe
    file at the root of the flash drive.

       As I mentioned in the first post, I trien mounting the ISO
    and running setup.exe. That didn't work, so I tried a USB stick
    for good measure. It refused to do anything but a clean install
    in both cases, so I suspect the 22H2 installer is refusing an
    update because the systenm was originally Win7.

    If 20H2 was installed and activated then there is no need to talk about
    Win7. The license has become a digital one and so the Microsoft servers
    will recognise your machine if you use the same machine as 20H2.

      Apparently that's not the case. I've done this before, running
    setup.exe from a mounted ISO, so I know how to do it. But this time
    it doesn't give me the option of saving files. Only clean install.
    That would likely mean needing a new license.

       At any rate, I'm not uncertain about that part. I'm just curious
    about what substantial difference there is between 20H2 and 22H2.

    I would start looking for logfiles, and try and figure out
    why it is doing that.

    Remember that the Windows directory changes to Windows.old
    and a new Windows directory is created. So at some level,
    the Windows 7 aspect should be "flushed" out of the system.

    If you try and take the Win10 version *backwards*, it will likely
    respond by requesting a "Clean Install". I don't think it
    necessarily has migration logic for going backwards. But it
    really should be able to handle it. It's just untested.

    If the version of the offered media (ISO or USB "setup.exe")
    is the same version as currently installed, or a higher
    version, then it should accept a "preserve files and programs"
    option for that install.

    My guess is the "backwards version move" is what is
    upsetting it. But otherwise, start looking for .log files .

    I'm not doing a backward move. I tried to go from 20H2 to 22H2.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 9 17:39:18 2025
    On 2/9/2025 4:35 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
    Newyana2 wrote on 2/9/25 6:25 AM:

      21H2 might work. I haven't tried it. When 22H2 wouldn't do an
    update I just tried 20H2. I've tried 22H2 mounting the ISO and
    booting from a rufused stick. The hardware doesn't seem to
    be an issue. It just says it will only do a fresh install because
    "Windows might be installed to the wrong location or I might
    be trying to install an older OS."


    Normally 20H2 to 22H2 does not require a clean install.
     - no significant hardware system requirements between the versions Conditions that might cause it:
    - Windows system image needs repair (DISM command line option)
    - Windows component store needs cleanup (DISM command line option)
    - Windows Update broken/corrupt
    - Windows Update engine out-of-date
      => May 2023 KB5026361 last release 20H2 update is required(LCU and
    SSU)to update to 21H2/22H2
    - Windows 20H2 does not have June 2023 KB5027389 stand-alone(not
    included with monthly LCU/SSU update) Windows 10 Compatibility Update(includes the Windows Recovery Update)and is deployed/installed separate update via Windows Update or the MSFT Catalog. Note June 2023
    was also the first monthly update(LCU, SSU, SafeOS) that included the
    WinRE update for Win10 21H2 and 22H2
    - Device using Legacy MBR and not GPT(more common on older devices)
    where System partition is on the o/s partition
    - Device using GPT with no Recovery partition, or deleted Recovery
    partition, Windows partition not resizeable/shrink to free space to
    create WinRe partition, WinRE partition, if present, insufficient free
    space.
    - lesser issues(Graphics driver, Network driver outdated, stand-alone
    graphic card no longer supported or outdated driver); device has both
    onboard graphics and add-on graphics card with add-on enabled/onboard disabled[in some cases, BIOS/UEFI disabling the add-on and enabling the onboard will allow the 22H2 to be successfully installed]; 3rd party utilities that modify Windows; 3rd party AV/AM; end-user
    tweaking/removing main Windows integrated programs(Edge, Defender)
    - Windows Photos(rare case but a known issue) app package removed or uninstalled.

    Other routes to update
     - instead of using Windows Update or UBS media or ISO to update, use
    the  the Win10 22H2 Update Assistant(download the exe from the Windows
    10 Software Download site - 'Update Now' option.'
     - download exe file is 'Windows10Upgrade9252.exe
    may be necessary to check the exe file's properties and unblock the
    exe and/or run the exe as admin


    Complicated. I tried the 20H2 ISO out of curiosity (what's already
    on there) and that also refused to do an update. The update from
    7 to 20H2 was smooth, though at the time, 22H2 refused to do
    anything but a clean install.

    I noticed that the system window pops up and then closes. So
    something is not right. I ran SFC and DISM repairs. Still no luck
    with the system window. It is using MBR. Though 22H2 doesn't seem
    to be complaining about installing -- only refusing to update
    rather than clean install.

    This computer also does have a graphics card added to
    the onboard because the original predates HDMI and I needed
    to be able to display on the monitor as well as running HDMI
    to a TV. That graphics card is barebones. Something like a $35
    NVidia, I think. (I don't play video games. Only pipe movies.)

    The complication here is that I don't have a problem with a clean
    install but I expect it would lose the license, since Win7 -> 10 is no
    longer a free update.

    It sounds like it's probably not worth trying to do much more.
    Setup is not telling me what the issue is. And all the hardware issues
    don't explain why even 20H2 refuses to install on top of itself. But
    if I get bored I might re-run a Win7-> 20H2 update, then try 22H2
    immediately, before tweaking 20H2.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 9 19:43:53 2025
    On 2/9/2025 6:25 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
    Newyana2 wrote on 2/9/25 3:39 PM:
    On 2/9/2025 4:35 PM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
    Newyana2 wrote on 2/9/25 6:25 AM:

      21H2 might work. I haven't tried it. When 22H2 wouldn't do an
    update I just tried 20H2. I've tried 22H2 mounting the ISO and
    booting from a rufused stick. The hardware doesn't seem to
    be an issue. It just says it will only do a fresh install because
    "Windows might be installed to the wrong location or I might
    be trying to install an older OS."


    Normally 20H2 to 22H2 does not require a clean install.
      - no significant hardware system requirements between the versions
    Conditions that might cause it:
    - Windows system image needs repair (DISM command line option)
    - Windows component store needs cleanup (DISM command line option)
    - Windows Update broken/corrupt
    - Windows Update engine out-of-date
       => May 2023 KB5026361 last release 20H2 update is required(LCU and
    SSU)to update to 21H2/22H2
    - Windows 20H2 does not have June 2023 KB5027389 stand-alone(not
    included with monthly LCU/SSU update) Windows 10 Compatibility
    Update(includes the Windows Recovery Update)and is deployed/installed
    separate update via Windows Update or the MSFT Catalog. Note June
    2023 was also the first monthly update(LCU, SSU, SafeOS) that
    included the WinRE update for Win10 21H2 and 22H2
    - Device using Legacy MBR and not GPT(more common on older devices)
    where System partition is on the o/s partition
    - Device using GPT with no Recovery partition, or deleted Recovery
    partition, Windows partition not resizeable/shrink to free space to
    create WinRe partition, WinRE partition, if present, insufficient
    free space.
    - lesser issues(Graphics driver, Network driver outdated, stand-alone
    graphic card no longer supported or outdated driver); device has both
    onboard graphics and add-on graphics card with add-on enabled/onboard
    disabled[in some cases, BIOS/UEFI disabling the add-on and enabling
    the onboard will allow the 22H2 to be successfully installed]; 3rd
    party utilities that modify Windows; 3rd party AV/AM; end-user
    tweaking/removing main Windows integrated programs(Edge, Defender)
    - Windows Photos(rare case but a known issue) app package removed or
    uninstalled.

    Other routes to update
      - instead of using Windows Update or UBS media or ISO to update,
    use the  the Win10 22H2 Update Assistant(download the exe from the
    Windows 10 Software Download site - 'Update Now' option.'
      - download exe file is 'Windows10Upgrade9252.exe
    may be necessary to check the exe file's properties and unblock
    the exe and/or run the exe as admin


        Complicated. I tried the 20H2 ISO out of curiosity (what's already
    on there) and that also refused to do an update. The update from
    7 to 20H2 was smooth, though at the time, 22H2 refused to do
    anything but a clean install.

        I noticed that the system window pops up and then closes. So
    something is not right. I ran SFC and DISM repairs. Still no luck
    with the system window. It is using MBR. Though 22H2 doesn't seem
    to be complaining about installing -- only refusing to update
    rather than clean install.

        This computer also does have a graphics card added to
    the onboard because the original predates HDMI and I needed
    to be able to display on the monitor as well as running HDMI
    to a TV. That graphics card is barebones. Something like a $35
    NVidia, I think. (I don't play video games. Only pipe movies.)

        The complication here is that I don't have a problem with a clean
    install but I expect it would lose the license, since Win7 -> 10 is no
    longer a free update.

       It sounds like it's probably not worth trying to do much more.
    Setup is not telling me what the issue is. And all the hardware issues
    don't explain why even 20H2 refuses to install on top of itself. But
    if I get bored I might re-run a Win7-> 20H2 update, then try 22H2
    immediately, before tweaking 20H2.



    Your symptom/issue is obviously not the first failure of 20H2 to 22H2 on
    a device(including those originally with Win7).
     - Those 'knowns' that I provided are almost everything I recall or
    have seen in my earlier 13 yrs in the MVP program, current MSFT
    listservers, AskWoody owner/admin/moderator patch lady(Susan B. - if she doesn't know about it, it didn't happen), and other sources.

    If you have verified:
    1. the DISM Image and Component store routes show no corruption, no
    repair need, no component store cleanup
    2. your 20H2 version is later than May 2023(the last released 20H2
    update was 19042.2965)Update Assistant route
    3. your device has the June 2023 KB5027389 stand-alone(Compatibility
    update installed. (Fyi..the KB can be downloaded from the Catalog, if installed and already present, it will tell you not applicable or
    already installed)

    If the above are all ok, then try using the available online Update Now option to download and run the Upgrade Assistant - Windows10Upgrade9252.exe

    Thanks, but that's way more trouble than this is worth.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 10 00:45:34 2025
    On Sun, 2/9/2025 7:43 PM, Newyana2 wrote:


        Thanks, but that's way more trouble than this is worth.


    Once you are granted a license, the license is valid "invisibly"
    to you, as long as a hash of the machine details does not change.
    It's roughly the same hash as WinXP, and places a lot of weight on
    the NIC MAC address, the CPU type, the memory amount (both of those
    to a lesser degree). If you had a Firewire, that has a MAC too.

    Just one transition from W7SP1 to W10, within the window where
    the offer was still valid, is sufficient. You likely DO have a license,
    and no backing out of that, unless you swap out the mobo, then,
    it is a different machine.

    If the Microsoft servers sees just one transition from W10 to RufusW11,
    that should grant you a W11 license in a sense. Then, if you added
    a TPM, the BIOS supported attestation, your processor magically had
    a better MBEC, and so on (you had a POPCNT, which is a pretty low bar),
    then when you install W11 the second time and without Rufus, you
    would be licensed to Windows 11 (just as the first transition had set up
    for you). But the odds of not breaking the hash on such a transition
    are so low, I can't recommend trying to do that.

    All it takes for an upgrade license, is to do it (W7Sp1 to W10), wait a day, then check it. Like, check for your license, after the OS has installed
    the video card driver automatically, it should be licensed by then. That
    allows time for the license server to have been restarted, or the fire
    to be put out in the data center :-)

    slmgr /dlv

    and one of the lines in there is your license status.

    Various entries in the "winver", do not mean quite as much as they imply.
    For example, I'm on the Insider, but that alone does not
    grant a license. The Winver claims the OS is licensed to BullWinkle,
    but, not really. The OS expires in fall 2025 or so (unless updated
    before then). There are several streams of Insider, and I've made
    no attempt to keep all of them going. I'm down to one install now.

    Paul

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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Paul on Mon Feb 10 02:30:20 2025
    On Mon, 2/10/2025 12:45 AM, Paul wrote:
    On Sun, 2/9/2025 7:43 PM, Newyana2 wrote:


        Thanks, but that's way more trouble than this is worth.


    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/upgrade/log-files

    setupact.log Down-Level [your current OS] C:\$Windows.~BT\Sources\Panther\setupact.log

    Maybe your WindowsUpdate is jammed or a key service
    required for WindowUpdate is removed. The OS can't function
    without the supports for Windows Side By Side to handle
    packages. Since your attempt failed so quickly, that's my guess
    at a root cause. A services malady.

    The OS installation has multiple phases, and once Windows.old and Windows exist, then the logfiles (whatever they are), will be in the new Windows folder.

    And what is neat, is while there are two places for logs to go, the *date stamps*
    on the logs use a different time base. One might use local time, the other UTC or whatever. Behaviors like this don't help matters.

    *******

    While SetupDiag is mentioned here, I don't think it worked when I tried it.
    But it is still worth reviewing the article.

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-upgrade-failed-use-these-5-tools-to-find-the-problem-and-fix-it-fast/

    You can get a copy here. I knew it was out here, because my copy was
    in my Downloads folder :-) Mine is version 1.7.0.0 and a bit older.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/upgrade/setupdiag

    Paul

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  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to Paul on Mon Feb 10 08:08:00 2025
    On 2/10/2025 2:30 AM, Paul wrote:
    On Mon, 2/10/2025 12:45 AM, Paul wrote:
    On Sun, 2/9/2025 7:43 PM, Newyana2 wrote:


        Thanks, but that's way more trouble than this is worth.


    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/upgrade/log-files

    setupact.log Down-Level [your current OS] C:\$Windows.~BT\Sources\Panther\setupact.log

    Maybe your WindowsUpdate is jammed or a key service
    required for WindowUpdate is removed. The OS can't function
    without the supports for Windows Side By Side to handle
    packages. Since your attempt failed so quickly, that's my guess
    at a root cause. A services malady.


    Maybe. This all started with curiosity about what the actual
    notable differences were between versions. As usual, I'm curious
    to sort out the garbage heap of complications, but I'm not really
    THAT curious. I don't want to waste 2 days fiddling with it to get
    something I don't actually need. And if I let it clean install then I
    likely won't have a license, because the update from Win7 is no
    longer free.

    Why I should need WU enabled for an offline update is a mystery
    to me. But I have noticed that things seem to go south with any
    sort of tweaking. I have a firewall blocking MS surveillance. I have
    WU blocked. I have Classic Shell installed... Those are just the basic
    things I do to clean up Win10 when setting it up. And I only
    run these things after unplugging the ethernet. Naturally I don't
    expect an update patch to work with WU disabled. But a total
    system update? It worked fine going from a tweaked and locked
    down Win7 to 20H2.

    Anyway, thanks for the help. And thanks to Winston, but this
    box is mostly only for streaming Netflix. It's 15 years old. It's
    not worth sleuthing all the variables in terms of why Windows
    updates have become so undependable.

    Given all the problems that I've had, and that I've seen reported
    by others (even people on Win10/11 whose activation suddenly
    goes missing with no hardware changes), I've adopted a specific
    protocol: Install new. Allow MS to have their way with the system,
    putting in the latest updates. If it still works then buy a license.
    If that goes OK then lock it down, shut out MS, install Simplewall,
    and start tweaking. From there I no longer consider installing
    patches. It's all just too brittle for that. The old method of simply
    running critical updates on XP and 7 is no longer applicable. My guess
    is that that's because MS now expects control. They're not content
    to just swap out a vulnerable system file anymore. They're treating
    it as their service kiosk which needs to be operating per their specs.

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