• Convinced me, going to backup first.

    From micky@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 14 22:27:20 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something
    goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced
    me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free, even if you have the last free
    version (which I have and which I think is also available on Geeks) --
    because it wants your email address to send you a code and when they do
    email you, there is no code, only a link to a page where you can buy it. However I had the email they sent me with a code 3 years ago, and it
    also gave a link where I could change my communication preferences. That
    page was still there. And both the page and the email showed what email address I had used at the time, and the combination of proper email
    address and old code let it install. Save your old email!!

    https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW80/Cloning+a+disk#Cloningadisk-0 says "Important
    Windows cannot boot from a USB-connected drive. This is a restriction
    imposed by Microsoft. If you clone your system disk to a USB-connected
    external drive then, to boot your clone, the physical disk must be
    removed from the USB caddy and attached internally." I can't very
    easily do that with a laptop, especially with a 5 1/4" drive. Is this
    actually true? Still true?? The page that says it was "Last modified
    by Macrium Software on Dec 05, 2022" Was it true 2 years ago?

    Lots of people on the web say otherwise now, for example, from December
    of 2013 (13!!!): "You need to enable booting from non-EFI devices. This
    option can be found in most BIOSs called the Compatibility Support
    Module or CSM. This option is sometimes hidden until you disable Secure
    Boot. I've also seen it hidden until Fast Boot is disabled. Once you
    enable the CSM module and set it to boot EFI + Legacy boot devices you shouldn't have any trouble booting your USB device."


    Sent from the new laptop, so I'm making progress. One big advantage of
    Forte Agent is that it only needs to be copied in, doesn't have to be installed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to micky on Sat Feb 15 03:06:46 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Fri, 2/14/2025 10:27 PM, micky wrote:
    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something
    goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced
    me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free, even if you have the last free version (which I have and which I think is also available on Geeks) -- because it wants your email address to send you a code and when they do
    email you, there is no code, only a link to a page where you can buy it. However I had the email they sent me with a code 3 years ago, and it
    also gave a link where I could change my communication preferences. That
    page was still there. And both the page and the email showed what email address I had used at the time, and the combination of proper email
    address and old code let it install. Save your old email!!

    https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW80/Cloning+a+disk#Cloningadisk-0
    says "Important
    Windows cannot boot from a USB-connected drive. This is a restriction
    imposed by Microsoft. If you clone your system disk to a USB-connected external drive then, to boot your clone, the physical disk must be
    removed from the USB caddy and attached internally." I can't very
    easily do that with a laptop, especially with a 5 1/4" drive. Is this actually true? Still true?? The page that says it was "Last modified
    by Macrium Software on Dec 05, 2022" Was it true 2 years ago?

    Lots of people on the web say otherwise now, for example, from December
    of 2013 (13!!!): "You need to enable booting from non-EFI devices. This option can be found in most BIOSs called the Compatibility Support
    Module or CSM. This option is sometimes hidden until you disable Secure
    Boot. I've also seen it hidden until Fast Boot is disabled. Once you
    enable the CSM module and set it to boot EFI + Legacy boot devices you shouldn't have any trouble booting your USB device."


    Sent from the new laptop, so I'm making progress. One big advantage of Forte Agent is that it only needs to be copied in, doesn't have to be installed.


    It you are using the Macrium Free download, any exhortation to identify yourself
    has a box to skip that. The only thing you must do there, is tick a box saying you are a home user and not a commercial entity, as the "freeness" is for
    home users.

    Similarly, if at runtime you see a box (once) for registration, there
    should be something to tick that you don't use or need registration.

    It's not an arm twister, as these things go. If your arm got twisted,
    then something is wrong with the scenario (you forgot to tick something indicating you're a home user, you've "started a trial", or something
    like that).

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Allan Higdon@21:1/5 to micky on Sat Feb 15 04:51:04 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 21:27:20 -0600, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something
    goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced
    me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free, even if you have the last free version (which I have and which I think is also available on Geeks) -- because it wants your email address to send you a code and when they do
    email you, there is no code, only a link to a page where you can buy it. However I had the email they sent me with a code 3 years ago, and it
    also gave a link where I could change my communication preferences. That
    page was still there. And both the page and the email showed what email address I had used at the time, and the combination of proper email
    address and old code let it install. Save your old email!!


    During the install, the License key is filled in.
    After agreeing to Personal Use, deselect "Register this installation".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to Higdon" on Sat Feb 15 08:42:50 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 15 Feb 2025 04:51:04 -0600, "Allan
    Higdon" <allanh@vivaldi.net> wrote:

    On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 21:27:20 -0600, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something
    goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced
    me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free, even if you have the last free
    version (which I have and which I think is also available on Geeks) --
    because it wants your email address to send you a code and when they do
    email you, there is no code, only a link to a page where you can buy it.
    However I had the email they sent me with a code 3 years ago, and it
    also gave a link where I could change my communication preferences. That
    page was still there. And both the page and the email showed what email
    address I had used at the time, and the combination of proper email
    address and old code let it install. Save your old email!!


    During the install, the License key is filled in.
    After agreeing to Personal Use, deselect "Register this installation".

    It's installed on my new computer now, and it works, so it's too late to
    see if this would have been simpler than what I did, but there are lots
    of other people online saying that the free version no longer exists,
    and afaict no one saying otherwise. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Macrium+Reflect+Free+is+no+longer+free
    It's good that I kept my code from 3 years ago. When I first tried to
    install MRF, it insisted on a valid email address and, after I got the
    email**, a code. I think it would have the last, the successful time too
    except I had already entered them.

    **The email said "Please use the following link to receive a
    registration code. https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree " but the link
    was not personalized for me, and it did not provide a code, just
    information about "30-Day Free Trial"s.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to micky on Sat Feb 15 09:14:34 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/14/2025 10:27 PM, micky wrote:

    https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW80/Cloning+a+disk#Cloningadisk-0
    says "Important
    Windows cannot boot from a USB-connected drive. This is a restriction
    imposed by Microsoft. If you clone your system disk to a USB-connected external drive then, to boot your clone, the physical disk must be
    removed from the USB caddy and attached internally." I can't very
    easily do that with a laptop, especially with a 5 1/4" drive. Is this actually true? Still true?? The page that says it was "Last modified
    by Macrium Software on Dec 05, 2022" Was it true 2 years ago?


    I don't understand the issue here. Whatever imaging program
    you use should be on a CD or USB stick, from which you boot,
    writing the image to a non-C:\ partition or disk. So why do you
    need to boot Windows from a USB caddy?

    I like to always keep 2 redundant drives and set up multiple
    data partitions. Typically I might have 2-3 OSs and 4 data
    partitions per drive. So I boot to a bootable stick, image C:\
    to something like F:\Backup, then also copy the actual image
    file(s) to DVD or USB. It's handy having data partitions for
    several reasons. One is to store disk images for easy retrieval.
    Another is to keep data separate from the OS for ease of backup.
    A third is that with data backed up separately, disk images can
    be compact. My images for Win10/11 are typically about 9GB,
    with all software installed. So they can fit onto 2 DVDs if
    necessary.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Allan Higdon@21:1/5 to micky on Sat Feb 15 10:58:43 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 07:42:50 -0600, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 15 Feb 2025 04:51:04 -0600, "Allan
    Higdon" <allanh@vivaldi.net> wrote:

    On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 21:27:20 -0600, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something
    goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced
    me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free, even if you have the last free
    version (which I have and which I think is also available on Geeks) --
    because it wants your email address to send you a code and when they do
    email you, there is no code, only a link to a page where you can buy it. >>> However I had the email they sent me with a code 3 years ago, and it
    also gave a link where I could change my communication preferences. That >>> page was still there. And both the page and the email showed what email >>> address I had used at the time, and the combination of proper email
    address and old code let it install. Save your old email!!


    During the install, the License key is filled in.
    After agreeing to Personal Use, deselect "Register this installation".

    It's installed on my new computer now, and it works, so it's too late to
    see if this would have been simpler than what I did, but there are lots
    of other people online saying that the free version no longer exists,
    and afaict no one saying otherwise. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Macrium+Reflect+Free+is+no+longer+free
    It's good that I kept my code from 3 years ago. When I first tried to install MRF, it insisted on a valid email address and, after I got the email**, a code. I think it would have the last, the successful time too except I had already entered them.

    **The email said "Please use the following link to receive a
    registration code. https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree " but the link
    was not personalized for me, and it did not provide a code, just
    information about "30-Day Free Trial"s.


    I had no problem installing Macrium Free (v8.0.7783).
    Since there's a License key filled in for the Free version, you can deselect "Register this installation",
    and the install can continue without any email address or code to enter.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to Higdon" on Sat Feb 15 23:34:59 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:58:43 -0600, "Allan
    Higdon" <allanh@vivaldi.net> wrote:

    On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 07:42:50 -0600, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 15 Feb 2025 04:51:04 -0600, "Allan
    Higdon" <allanh@vivaldi.net> wrote:

    On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 21:27:20 -0600, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote: >>>
    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something >>>> goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced >>>> me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free, even if you have the last free >>>> version (which I have and which I think is also available on Geeks) -- >>>> because it wants your email address to send you a code and when they do >>>> email you, there is no code, only a link to a page where you can buy it. >>>> However I had the email they sent me with a code 3 years ago, and it
    also gave a link where I could change my communication preferences. That >>>> page was still there. And both the page and the email showed what email >>>> address I had used at the time, and the combination of proper email
    address and old code let it install. Save your old email!!


    During the install, the License key is filled in.
    After agreeing to Personal Use, deselect "Register this installation".

    It's installed on my new computer now, and it works, so it's too late to
    see if this would have been simpler than what I did, but there are lots
    of other people online saying that the free version no longer exists,
    and afaict no one saying otherwise.
    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Macrium+Reflect+Free+is+no+longer+free
    It's good that I kept my code from 3 years ago. When I first tried to
    install MRF, it insisted on a valid email address and, after I got the
    email**, a code. I think it would have the last, the successful time too
    except I had already entered them.

    **The email said "Please use the following link to receive a
    registration code. https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree " but the link
    was not personalized for me, and it did not provide a code, just
    information about "30-Day Free Trial"s.


    I had no problem installing Macrium Free (v8.0.7783).

    When did you do this? Their policy may have changed. (I'm using the
    same version.)

    Since there's a License key filled in for the Free version, you can deselect "Register this installation",
    and the install can continue without any email address or code to enter.

    I think I have it installed on all 3 PC's now, and I don't want to
    uninstall just to test this, but.... My firm recollection is that a
    line at the top of that box said something like "Register or cancel installation".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Frank Slootweg@21:1/5 to newyana@invalid.nospam on Sun Feb 16 11:21:56 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
    On 2/14/2025 10:27 PM, micky wrote:

    https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW80/Cloning+a+disk#Cloningadisk-0
    says "Important
    Windows cannot boot from a USB-connected drive. This is a restriction imposed by Microsoft. If you clone your system disk to a USB-connected external drive then, to boot your clone, the physical disk must be
    removed from the USB caddy and attached internally." I can't very
    easily do that with a laptop, especially with a 5 1/4" drive. Is this actually true? Still true?? The page that says it was "Last modified
    by Macrium Software on Dec 05, 2022" Was it true 2 years ago?

    I don't understand the issue here. Whatever imaging program
    you use should be on a CD or USB stick, from which you boot,
    writing the image to a non-C:\ partition or disk. So why do you
    need to boot Windows from a USB caddy?

    micky is mixing up cloning with (image) backup (and restore). In his
    subject he (correctly) talks about "going to backup first", but in his
    text, he's talking about cloning (which he should *not* be doing).

    Which of the two - image backup or cloning - he is *actually* doing,
    we can only guess.

    Normally, image backup is the common use and cloning is a rare
    exception. (In my 10 years of using Macrium Reflect (Free), I've never
    cloned a disk (or partiotion).)

    [...]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to micky on Sun Feb 16 09:21:34 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Sat, 2/15/2025 11:34 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:58:43 -0600, "Allan
    Higdon" <allanh@vivaldi.net> wrote:

    On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 07:42:50 -0600, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 15 Feb 2025 04:51:04 -0600, "Allan
    Higdon" <allanh@vivaldi.net> wrote:

    On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 21:27:20 -0600, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote: >>>>
    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something >>>>> goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced >>>>> me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free, even if you have the last free >>>>> version (which I have and which I think is also available on Geeks) -- >>>>> because it wants your email address to send you a code and when they do >>>>> email you, there is no code, only a link to a page where you can buy it. >>>>> However I had the email they sent me with a code 3 years ago, and it >>>>> also gave a link where I could change my communication preferences. That >>>>> page was still there. And both the page and the email showed what email >>>>> address I had used at the time, and the combination of proper email
    address and old code let it install. Save your old email!!


    During the install, the License key is filled in.
    After agreeing to Personal Use, deselect "Register this installation".

    It's installed on my new computer now, and it works, so it's too late to >>> see if this would have been simpler than what I did, but there are lots
    of other people online saying that the free version no longer exists,
    and afaict no one saying otherwise.
    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Macrium+Reflect+Free+is+no+longer+free
    It's good that I kept my code from 3 years ago. When I first tried to
    install MRF, it insisted on a valid email address and, after I got the
    email**, a code. I think it would have the last, the successful time too >>> except I had already entered them.

    **The email said "Please use the following link to receive a
    registration code. https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree " but the link
    was not personalized for me, and it did not provide a code, just
    information about "30-Day Free Trial"s.


    I had no problem installing Macrium Free (v8.0.7783).

    When did you do this? Their policy may have changed. (I'm using the
    same version.)

    Since there's a License key filled in for the Free version, you can deselect "Register this installation",
    and the install can continue without any email address or code to enter.

    I think I have it installed on all 3 PC's now, and I don't want to
    uninstall just to test this, but.... My firm recollection is that a
    line at the top of that box said something like "Register or cancel installation".


    I have the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of that installer on disk.
    There is no monkey business, no arm twisting, no need to add a code
    at all. Just click the boxes and go.

    [Picture]

    https://i.postimg.cc/C58hhGD3/Macrium-Reflect-Free-807783-Install.gif

    The last pane in the picture, is not particularly well done, and it
    is there just to show "the program launched". It's not a beauty contest
    because I resized it to line up with the size of the other pictures.
    I used Irfanview panorama to make a film strip of them.

    Install was done on W11, in VMWare, to avoid polluting my DailyDriver
    in any way. Push the button, it is all gone.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Juancho@21:1/5 to micky on Sun Feb 16 18:31:25 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 22:27:20 -0500, micky wrote:
    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something
    goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced
    me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free, even if you have the last free

    I use "Veeam Agent for Microsoft Windows FREE", and it is battle tested and easy to use, not to mention FREE.

    https://www.veeam.com/products/free/microsoft-windows.html

    Any particular reason to prefer Macrium over Veeam Agent?

    --
    Juancho is in USENET.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to this@ddress.is.invalid on Sun Feb 16 13:45:40 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 16 Feb 2025 11:21:56 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

    Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
    On 2/14/2025 10:27 PM, micky wrote:

    https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW80/Cloning+a+disk#Cloningadisk-0
    says "Important
    Windows cannot boot from a USB-connected drive. This is a restriction
    imposed by Microsoft. If you clone your system disk to a USB-connected
    external drive then, to boot your clone, the physical disk must be
    removed from the USB caddy and attached internally." I can't very
    easily do that with a laptop, especially with a 5 1/4" drive. Is this
    actually true? Still true?? The page that says it was "Last modified >> > by Macrium Software on Dec 05, 2022" Was it true 2 years ago?

    I don't understand the issue here. Whatever imaging program
    you use should be on a CD or USB stick, from which you boot,
    writing the image to a non-C:\ partition or disk. So why do you
    need to boot Windows from a USB caddy?

    micky is mixing up cloning with (image) backup (and restore). In his

    You're right that I still don't understand what it is I would need to
    repair things (a clone or a backup?) if the problem with windows hadn't
    been reversiable. I didn't want to take another day to ask before
    installing EP. So I made a clone, even though it was on a 5" drive and
    the laptop has a 3" drive, because I thought if need be I could boot
    from the clone while it was still external.

    subject he (correctly) talks about "going to backup first", but in his
    text, he's talking about cloning (which he should *not* be doing).

    Which of the two - image backup or cloning - he is *actually* doing,
    we can only guess.

    The 3rd paragraph of my OP, the one quoted at the top herem is quoting
    someone else and I brought it up to ask if it was true that one couldn't
    boot from a USB-connected drive. I thought I remembered that that was
    an option.

    Normally, image backup is the common use and cloning is a rare
    exception.

    Good to know. It's not too late to replace the clone with an image
    backup. No need to keep the clone especially if one can't boot from a usb-connected drive.

    (In my 10 years of using Macrium Reflect (Free), I've never
    cloned a disk (or partiotion).)

    [...]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Char Jackson@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 16 17:53:11 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:14:35 -0700, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ <winstonmvp@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    micky wrote on 2/16/2025 11:45 AM:
    Good to know. It's not too late to replace the clone with an image
    backup. No need to keep the clone especially if one can't boot from a
    usb-connected drive.

    (In my 10 years of using Macrium Reflect (Free), I've never
    cloned a disk (or partiotion).)

    [...]

    To close this out...
    Two days ago, a Macrium article you referenced indicated that your
    original expectation that a Macrium clone to a USB connected disk was not >bootable media.
    i.e. after cloning the primary Windows disk(or its selected partitions)
    to a USB connected disk that same USB disk is not a bootable option.

    Do you now understand the difference(after input from multiple sources) >between imaging and cloning:
    Imaging your Windows partitions -for backup/restore purposes
    vs.
    Cloning - primarily for one of three options - upgrading[replacing a
    disk with a larger one or replacing the disk with a new disk or moving >everything from one computer to another computer

    Y/N?

    If yes, are you now ready to use Macrium Reflect Free(or any other
    Macrium version) to image your disk?

    If yes, do you also realized that if you use Macrium to image Windows(and
    its 4 GPT partitions) to a USB connected device, that device will also
    ***not be bootable***. It will be available for restoration(everthing >imaged/all or individaul partitions), restoring/copying individual files,
    or just inspection when neeeded?

    When I image the Windows disk, I image the entire disk rather than
    selected partitions. I do that for two main reasons:
    1. Doing so adds only a trivial amount of data & time to the backup.
    2. Doing so gives me the ability to write that image to a disk that then becomes bootable.

    I haven't been following micky's story closely, so I don't know if my
    approach would work for him.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Juancho on Sun Feb 16 19:51:17 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Sun, 2/16/2025 12:31 PM, Juancho wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 22:27:20 -0500, micky wrote:
    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something
    goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced
    me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free, even if you have the last free

    I use "Veeam Agent for Microsoft Windows FREE", and it is battle tested and easy to use, not to mention FREE.

    https://www.veeam.com/products/free/microsoft-windows.html

    Any particular reason to prefer Macrium over Veeam Agent?


    Use whatever you have *personally* tested and verified.

    It's a lot of work to build confidence in one of these products.

    To give an example, I was interested in one tool, I did
    a Google, and there was a report that someone tried to
    clone a FAT32 partition with it and the operation failed.
    The most likely explanation when things like that happen,
    is the partition likely needed to have a CHKDSK run on it
    first. Some products do a degree of verification before the
    operation begins And that avoids wasting your time, by getting
    half way through an operation, and bombing out.

    A certain brand, I've tried their "trial" version for a
    couple of things. There's "always a tiny problem". Now,
    do I want to hitch my horse to that wagon ? No thanks.
    Backup software should not feel like an experiment.

    There are a number of free ones, but they're not all the
    same, and some seem to have a distinct lack of in-house testing.

    Macrium isn't perfect. It can be a new feature that malfunctions.
    Something not associated with the core functions of backup/restore/clone.
    And, it gets fixed. For example, on the Rescue CD, they added a
    screen capture function, so you could take a picture of the screen
    when booted from the CD. That didn't work on my copy, but not a problem, because that's not part of making a backup. That's a toy.

    Similarly, Macrium has a couple generations of Rescue CD. The
    first generation, was a 20MB Linux method, fairly compact and
    didn't require "prep". The second generation is based on WADK
    and WinPE, and there is a download and a preparation procedure
    to make the ISO for the media. The third generation, uses WinRE
    (Reagent thing that Windows itself uses for emergency boot
    and is in the System Reserved partition). When that feature was
    introduced, my copy grabbed the wrong WinRE file (x32 versus x64 issue),
    and while that wasted my time, it wasn't a big deal. But today,
    for least trouble, I'd be telling people to use the second
    generation WinPE method, because that seems to work, and that
    has never let me down. I have six or seven Rescue CDs, made
    at various times.

    The Macrium product has a PDF manual for each version. It's
    around 150 pages perhaps. Some other backup product tried to
    top that, with a 500 page PDF manual, but I don't award points
    personally, for turning products into "an Iron Man Event". So
    while a 500 page manual shows attention to detail, it is unlikely
    that every customer reads that from end to end.

    Macrium has a learning curve. Noobs don't particularly like it.
    It took me a while to "absorb the ambience". For the longest while,
    I missed the button that promises to back up the whole computer.
    The interface is fairly busy looking, but the materials presented
    have their value, and it takes some getting used to.

    I liked a certain Acronis product, one where they had just finished
    revamping their story board, and the flow was very logical and not
    a lot of clicks. But when Acronis decided to make a "suite" out
    of their crap, and make a rental AV product out of their
    backup software, I stopped suggesting that to people as an option.
    That's just too silly for words. Acronis TrueImage would have been
    good enough for most people, buy once and use, no need for
    any sort of rental thang.

    Paul

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  • From micky@21:1/5 to Juancho on Mon Feb 17 06:48:45 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 16 Feb 2025 18:31:25 +0100, eternal@notreally.com (Juancho) wrote:

    On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 22:27:20 -0500, micky wrote:
    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something
    goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced
    me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free, even if you have the last free

    I use "Veeam Agent for Microsoft Windows FREE", and it is battle tested and >easy to use, not to mention FREE.

    https://www.veeam.com/products/free/microsoft-windows.html

    Any particular reason to prefer Macrium over Veeam Agent?

    Only that I'd used Macrium and had never heard of Veeam until you list
    it here.

    In fact, years ago, I found using Macrium confusing for quite some time,
    and looked for something else this week. I liked Minitools, the
    partitiion manager that I'd used before, and dl'd and installed their
    backup software, but it was confusing too. Easeus recommended DiskCopy
    and Todo, and only one was free and I couldn't tell from their blurb if
    it would do what I wanted, as simple as that was.

    So back to Macrium. Which I had to install on the new computer and as
    I say in another thread insisted on registration and said it would send
    me a link to a code, and the email came, with a link, but the link had
    no code, only mention of Trial Version, good for a week or maybe 30 days
    (with a monthly charge after that!!). Others here say it doesn't insist
    on registration, but I remember it doing so, a specific message which
    only appeared after I clicked Next, that said roughly, Either register
    or cancel. But others here say no, so try it and let us know if you
    could install it without giving a code (or an email address probably).

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  • From Frank Slootweg@21:1/5 to micky on Mon Feb 17 15:06:21 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
    [...]
    So back to Macrium. Which I had to install on the new computer and as
    I say in another thread insisted on registration and said it would send
    me a link to a code, and the email came, with a link, but the link had
    no code, only mention of Trial Version, good for a week or maybe 30 days (with a monthly charge after that!!). Others here say it doesn't insist
    on registration, but I remember it doing so, a specific message which
    only appeared after I clicked Next, that said roughly, Either register
    or cancel. But others here say no, so try it and let us know if you
    could install it without giving a code (or an email address probably).

    Paul not only decribed, but also *proved*, complete with umpteen
    screenshots, that you can install and use the free version without registration. Others posted similar information.

    So please stop posting your FUD/urban_legends over and over and start reading!

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  • From micky@21:1/5 to this@ddress.is.invalid on Mon Feb 17 10:58:54 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 17 Feb 2025 15:06:21 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
    [...]
    So back to Macrium. Which I had to install on the new computer and as
    I say in another thread insisted on registration and said it would send
    me a link to a code, and the email came, with a link, but the link had
    no code, only mention of Trial Version, good for a week or maybe 30 days
    (with a monthly charge after that!!). Others here say it doesn't insist
    on registration, but I remember it doing so, a specific message which
    only appeared after I clicked Next, that said roughly, Either register
    or cancel. But others here say no, so try it and let us know if you
    could install it without giving a code (or an email address probably).

    Paul not only decribed, but also *proved*, complete with umpteen
    screenshots, that you can install and use the free version without >registration. Others posted similar information.

    I couldn't come up with a suitable rpely to Paul, but he didh't prove it
    to me. If I had taken pictures, it would have shown the opposite.

    So please stop posting your FUD/urban_legends over and over and start
    reading!

    I red all the posts. They don't change what I saw first-hand.

    I told Juancho, the person I was replying to, that others disagreed with
    me and urged him to try Macrium. I think that was fair. He asked me why
    one should prefer Macrium and I don't think it would be right to tell
    him only the good part of what happened.

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  • From Frank Slootweg@21:1/5 to micky on Mon Feb 17 16:38:21 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 17 Feb 2025 15:06:21 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
    [...]
    So back to Macrium. Which I had to install on the new computer and as
    I say in another thread insisted on registration and said it would send
    me a link to a code, and the email came, with a link, but the link had
    no code, only mention of Trial Version, good for a week or maybe 30 days >> (with a monthly charge after that!!). Others here say it doesn't insist >> on registration, but I remember it doing so, a specific message which
    only appeared after I clicked Next, that said roughly, Either register
    or cancel. But others here say no, so try it and let us know if you
    could install it without giving a code (or an email address probably).

    Paul not only decribed, but also *proved*, complete with umpteen
    screenshots, that you can install and use the free version without >registration. Others posted similar information.

    I couldn't come up with a suitable rpely to Paul, but he didh't prove it
    to me. If I had taken pictures, it would have shown the opposite.

    No it wouldn't. Read on.

    So please stop posting your FUD/urban_legends over and over and start
    reading!

    I red all the posts. They don't change what I saw first-hand.

    What you *think*/*thought* you saw! Paul even explained where you made
    your mistake. There is a place where you *can* enter an e-mail address to register a *non-Free* version, but since the 'License key' is already
    filled in for the *Free* version, you should/need *not* enter an e-mail address.

    That you were confused and made a mistake, is of course perfectly OK/ understandable, but continuing to spread FUD/urban_legends in the face
    of *evidence* to the contrary, is not OK.

    I told Juancho, the person I was replying to, that others disagreed with
    me and urged him to try Macrium. I think that was fair. He asked me why
    one should prefer Macrium and I don't think it would be right to tell
    him only the good part of what happened.

    So Juancho should do your work for you, instead of you (re-)trying
    yourself or just reading and accepting the evidence/information provided
    by several people!?

    Anyway, see Paul's screenshots for what is *actually* happening if you install the *Free* version for *Personal* use:

    Message-ID: <voss9e$kl0g$1@dont-email.me>

    (in this thread)

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  • From micky@21:1/5 to winstonmvp@gmail.com on Mon Feb 17 22:05:00 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:49:37 -0700,
    ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:

    .....
    Missing the reason.
    The method you used that requested a link via email was unnecessary
    when running the installer bits for Version 8.0.7783 or earlier.

    No registration is required, no link need be recieved.

    You can clear up your confusion by uninstalling MR, reinstalling the free

    I had some trouble installing it and as I said before, I don't want to uninstall it.

    version(8.0.7783 or earlier) and follow the exact same steps that
    multiple persons have referenced or supplied.

    And I don't want to argue anymore, with you or Frank.

    You can have the last words on this.

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  • From Daniel70@21:1/5 to micky on Tue Feb 18 20:54:24 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 17/02/2025 5:45 am, micky wrote:
    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 16 Feb 2025 11:21:56 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

    Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
    On 2/14/2025 10:27 PM, micky wrote:

    https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW80/Cloning+a+disk#Cloningadisk-0
    says "Important
    Windows cannot boot from a USB-connected drive. This is a restriction
    imposed by Microsoft. If you clone your system disk to a USB-connected >>>> external drive then, to boot your clone, the physical disk must be
    removed from the USB caddy and attached internally." I can't very
    easily do that with a laptop, especially with a 5 1/4" drive. Is this >>>> actually true? Still true?? The page that says it was "Last modified >>>> by Macrium Software on Dec 05, 2022" Was it true 2 years ago?

    I don't understand the issue here. Whatever imaging program
    you use should be on a CD or USB stick, from which you boot,
    writing the image to a non-C:\ partition or disk. So why do you
    need to boot Windows from a USB caddy?

    micky is mixing up cloning with (image) backup (and restore). In his

    You're right that I still don't understand what it is I would need to
    repair things (a clone or a backup?)

    As I understand it, micky, a clone is an EXACT COPY OF YOUR DRIVE
    (programs, data and blank space) whereas a Backup is just a copy of your Programs and Data.

    A Clone of a 4GB drive which contains, say, 1.5GB of Programs and Data
    would take up 4GB on your Clone drive .... whereas a (Byte-for-Byte)
    Backup of the same drive would only be 1.5GB.
    --
    Daniel70

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  • From micky@21:1/5 to daniel47@eternal-september.org on Tue Feb 18 11:53:17 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Tue, 18 Feb 2025 20:54:24 +1100, Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:

    On 17/02/2025 5:45 am, micky wrote:
    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 16 Feb 2025 11:21:56 GMT, Frank Slootweg
    <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

    Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
    On 2/14/2025 10:27 PM, micky wrote:

    https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW80/Cloning+a+disk#Cloningadisk-0
    says "Important
    Windows cannot boot from a USB-connected drive. This is a restriction >>>>> imposed by Microsoft. If you clone your system disk to a USB-connected >>>>> external drive then, to boot your clone, the physical disk must be
    removed from the USB caddy and attached internally." I can't very
    easily do that with a laptop, especially with a 5 1/4" drive. Is this >>>>> actually true? Still true?? The page that says it was "Last modified >>>>> by Macrium Software on Dec 05, 2022" Was it true 2 years ago?

    I don't understand the issue here. Whatever imaging program
    you use should be on a CD or USB stick, from which you boot,
    writing the image to a non-C:\ partition or disk. So why do you
    need to boot Windows from a USB caddy?

    micky is mixing up cloning with (image) backup (and restore). In his

    You're right that I still don't understand what it is I would need to
    repair things (a clone or a backup?)

    As I understand it, micky, a clone is an EXACT COPY OF YOUR DRIVE
    (programs, data and blank space) whereas a Backup is just a copy of your >Programs and Data.

    A Clone of a 4GB drive which contains, say, 1.5GB of Programs and Data
    would take up 4GB on your Clone drive .... whereas a (Byte-for-Byte)
    Backup of the same drive would only be 1.5GB.

    I believe the software uwed to insist on clone drives being as big as
    the source drive, but they now permit the destination drive to be only
    as big as the part of the source that has been used. So in your
    example, if you'd only used 2GB of the 4GB and the destination drive was
    only 2GB big, that would work too. Indeed, my new laptop drive is 1T
    (with much less used) and the destination drive was only 320GB and
    Macrium did not complain. And if I could install the clone drive in
    place of the original drive, the PC would not complain either.

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  • From Daniel70@21:1/5 to micky on Thu Feb 20 20:04:51 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 19/02/2025 3:53 am, micky wrote:
    In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Tue, 18 Feb 2025 20:54:24 +1100,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
    On 17/02/2025 5:45 am, micky wrote:
    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 16 Feb 2025 11:21:56 GMT, Frank
    Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
    Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
    On 2/14/2025 10:27 PM, micky wrote:

    https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW80/Cloning+a+disk#Cloningadisk-0


    says "Important
    Windows cannot boot from a USB-connected drive. This is a
    restriction imposed by Microsoft. If you clone your system
    disk to a USB-connected external drive then, to boot your
    clone, the physical disk must be removed from the USB
    caddy and attached internally." I can't very easily do
    that with a laptop, especially with a 5 1/4" drive. Is
    this actually true? Still true?? The page that says it
    was "Last modified by Macrium Software on Dec 05, 2022" Was
    it true 2 years ago?

    I don't understand the issue here. Whatever imaging program
    you use should be on a CD or USB stick, from which you boot,
    writing the image to a non-C:\ partition or disk. So why do
    you need to boot Windows from a USB caddy?

    micky is mixing up cloning with (image) backup (and restore).
    In his

    You're right that I still don't understand what it is I would
    need to repair things (a clone or a backup?)

    As I understand it, micky, a clone is an EXACT COPY OF YOUR DRIVE
    (programs, data and blank space) whereas a Backup is just a copy of
    your Programs and Data.

    A Clone of a 4GB drive which contains, say, 1.5GB of Programs and
    Data would take up 4GB on your Clone drive .... whereas a
    (Byte-for-Byte) Backup of the same drive would only be 1.5GB.

    I believe the software uwed to insist on clone drives being as big
    as the source drive, but they now permit the destination drive to be
    only as big as the part of the source that has been used. So in
    your example, if you'd only used 2GB of the 4GB and the destination
    drive was only 2GB big, that would work too. Indeed, my new laptop
    drive is 1T (with much less used) and the destination drive was only
    320GB and Macrium did not complain. And if I could install the clone
    drive in place of the original drive, the PC would not complain
    either.

    O.K., so your EXPERIENCE is different to my UNDERSTANDING. So be it!!
    --
    Daniel70

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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 20 09:07:21 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Thu, 2/20/2025 4:04 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

    I believe the software uwed to insist on clone drives being as big
    as the source drive, but they now permit the destination drive to be
    only as big as the part of the source that has been used.    So in
    your example, if you'd only used 2GB of the 4GB and the destination
    drive was only 2GB big, that would work too.   Indeed, my new laptop
    drive is 1T (with much less used) and the destination drive was only
    320GB and Macrium did not complain. And if I could install the clone
    drive in place of the original drive, the PC would not complain
    either.

    O.K., so your EXPERIENCE is different to my UNDERSTANDING. So be it!!

    Cloning was originally done at the sector level, using the "disk dump" dd utility. Such a utility laughs at details. The developer does not
    have to be very clever, to get a result by doing it that way. The clone
    copies every flaw.

    Later, cloning was done at the cluster/inode level. Only the
    busy clusters needed to be copied from one disk to another disk.

    As a further refinement, when the user requests that the target
    clone be smaller than the source, a combination of "file-by-file"
    and "cluster-based" activity makes the clone copy. This allows the
    clusters to be packed in, defragmented, and so on. The reserved space
    for NTFS, prevents perfect defragmentation from happening.

    Those are examples of cloning. Some versions are more magical
    than others.

    Paul

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  • From Daniel70@21:1/5 to Paul on Fri Feb 21 18:25:22 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 21/02/2025 1:07 am, Paul wrote:
    On Thu, 2/20/2025 4:04 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

    I believe the software uwed to insist on clone drives being as big
    as the source drive, but they now permit the destination drive to be
    only as big as the part of the source that has been used.    So in
    your example, if you'd only used 2GB of the 4GB and the destination
    drive was only 2GB big, that would work too.   Indeed, my new laptop
    drive is 1T (with much less used) and the destination drive was only
    320GB and Macrium did not complain. And if I could install the clone
    drive in place of the original drive, the PC would not complain
    either.

    O.K., so your EXPERIENCE is different to my UNDERSTANDING. So be it!!

    Cloning was originally done at the sector level, using the "disk dump" dd utility. Such a utility laughs at details. The developer does not
    have to be very clever, to get a result by doing it that way. The clone copies every flaw.

    Later, cloning was done at the cluster/inode level. Only the
    busy clusters needed to be copied from one disk to another disk.

    As a further refinement, when the user requests that the target
    clone be smaller than the source, a combination of "file-by-file"
    and "cluster-based" activity makes the clone copy. This allows the
    clusters to be packed in, defragmented, and so on. The reserved space
    for NTFS, prevents perfect defragmentation from happening.

    Those are examples of cloning. Some versions are more magical
    than others.

    Paul

    Wasn't there, at one time, an OS which, when formatting a HD, would put
    some data in the very last sector of the Drive??
    --
    Daniel70

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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 21 09:21:47 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Fri, 2/21/2025 2:25 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 21/02/2025 1:07 am, Paul wrote:
    On Thu, 2/20/2025 4:04 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

    I believe the software uwed to insist on clone drives being as big
    as the source drive, but they now permit the destination drive to be
    only as big as the part of the source that has been used.    So in
    your example, if you'd only used 2GB of the 4GB and the destination
    drive was only 2GB big, that would work too.   Indeed, my new laptop >>>> drive is 1T (with much less used) and the destination drive was only
    320GB and Macrium did not complain. And if I could install the clone
    drive in place of the original drive, the PC would not complain
    either.

    O.K., so your EXPERIENCE is different to my UNDERSTANDING. So be it!!

    Cloning was originally done at the sector level, using the "disk dump" dd
    utility. Such a utility laughs at details. The developer does not
    have to be very clever, to get a result by doing it that way. The clone
    copies every flaw.

    Later, cloning was done at the cluster/inode level. Only the
    busy clusters needed to be copied from one disk to another disk.

    As a further refinement, when the user requests that the target
    clone be smaller than the source, a combination of "file-by-file"
    and "cluster-based" activity makes the clone copy. This allows the
    clusters to be packed in, defragmented, and so on. The reserved space
    for NTFS, prevents perfect defragmentation from happening.

    Those are examples of cloning. Some versions are more magical
    than others.

        Paul

    Wasn't there, at one time, an OS which, when formatting a HD, would put some data in the very last sector of the Drive??

    Back when hard drives were soft sectored, and you would do an
    LLF to write the sector pattern on the disk, yes, there was
    something critical at the end of the LLF process, that if it
    didn't happen, the disk drive was bricked. I have no idea
    what that is. I don't recollect reading about it anywhere.

    We lost one drive back in that era, to a power failure of mains,
    while we were doing an LLF on a drive. If the LLF didn't get
    to the end, the drive would be lost. The reason we were doing
    LLF, was to change the interleave factor from 3 to 1 (had just
    received a new/faster controller for the drives).

    After a while, the way disk drives operate, it changed. Today
    there is *no* LLF process on your hard drive. None at all.
    The power goes off, the heads retract safely, the drive
    is ready to be detected again later.

    I don't remember ever having a UPS in the lab (like, for doing
    LLF on drives :-) ). The IT department would have many UPS boxes
    in the locked server rooms. My badge couldn't get me into
    any of those. My badge also couldn't get me in the lab
    protected with a bank vault door. The scientists in that lab,
    were real jokers (they were working on GaAs lasers). Nothing in
    there needed a bank vault door, but seeing that door said
    "don't come in here!" in plain English. Presumably they
    had tried a cardboard sign with red letters "don't come in here!"
    but that didn't work. Because not all the staff could read :-)
    Or so it seemed.

    Paul

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  • From Mark Lloyd@21:1/5 to Paul on Fri Feb 21 18:06:50 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:21:47 -0500, Paul wrote:


    [snip]

    Back when hard drives were soft sectored, and you would do an LLF to
    write the sector pattern on the disk, yes, there was something critical
    at the end of the LLF process, that if it didn't happen, the disk drive
    was bricked. I have no idea what that is. I don't recollect reading
    about it anywhere.

    My first hard drive required a LLF. You's run DEBUG and enter something
    like G=C800:000C. I didn't hear about any critical write at the end. If
    there's something critical at the end, how would you be able to start the
    LLF the first time? It can't have been completed before its started.

    We lost one drive back in that era, to a power failure of mains, while
    we were doing an LLF on a drive. If the LLF didn't get to the end, the
    drive would be lost. The reason we were doing LLF, was to change the interleave factor from 3 to 1 (had just received a new/faster controller
    for the drives).

    After a while, the way disk drives operate, it changed. Today there is
    *no* LLF process on your hard drive. None at all.
    The power goes off, the heads retract safely, the drive is ready to be detected again later.

    There must be a LLF, it just has to be done at the factory.

    [snip]

    --
    Mark Lloyd
    http://notstupid.us/

    "Error! No keyboard detected. Press F1 to continue."

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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Mark Lloyd on Fri Feb 21 16:16:08 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Fri, 2/21/2025 1:06 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
    On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:21:47 -0500, Paul wrote:

    There must be a LLF, it just has to be done at the factory.

    [snip]

    It's not in the command set.

    Whatever happens at the factory, is "custom". There
    are actually multiple ways to do it, and some of the
    ways are not documented.

    The more interesting cases, would be the Helium drives.

    I looked at a takeapart video of a helium drive (10TB)
    and a takeapart of an airbreather (6TB), and I don't see
    any significant differences. An external servowriter
    would have to come in from the side of the drive, and
    there's no sign of an external servowriter port on the
    helium drive. But there are also no suspicious structures
    inside the drive.

    When the Helium drive came apart, it seemed to be slightly
    above atmospheric pressure. The Helium drive has two covers.
    The outer cover is mechanical and protects the inner cover.
    The inner cover has an adhesive around the outside of the plate,
    that forms the Helioseal. One brand of Helium drive seems to
    have a pressure sensor built into the drive, but nobody
    knows exactly what the numeric values mean in the SMART
    table. The helium contents are only Warranted for five years
    or so.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to Jackson on Mon Mar 10 10:33:35 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 16 Feb 2025 17:53:11 -0600, Char
    Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

    On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:14:35 -0700, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ <winstonmvp@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    micky wrote on 2/16/2025 11:45 AM:
    Good to know. It's not too late to replace the clone with an image
    backup. No need to keep the clone especially if one can't boot from a
    usb-connected drive.

    (In my 10 years of using Macrium Reflect (Free), I've never
    cloned a disk (or partiotion).)

    [...]

    To close this out...
    Two days ago, a Macrium article you referenced indicated that your >>original expectation that a Macrium clone to a USB connected disk was not >>bootable media.
    i.e. after cloning the primary Windows disk(or its selected partitions) >>to a USB connected disk that same USB disk is not a bootable option.

    Do you now understand the difference(after input from multiple sources) >>between imaging and cloning:
    Imaging your Windows partitions -for backup/restore purposes
    vs.
    Cloning - primarily for one of three options - upgrading[replacing a
    disk with a larger one or replacing the disk with a new disk or moving >>everything from one computer to another computer

    Y/N?

    If yes, are you now ready to use Macrium Reflect Free(or any other
    Macrium version) to image your disk?

    If yes, do you also realized that if you use Macrium to image Windows(and >>its 4 GPT partitions) to a USB connected device, that device will also >>***not be bootable***. It will be available for restoration(everthing >>imaged/all or individaul partitions), restoring/copying individual files, >>or just inspection when neeeded?

    When I image the Windows disk, I image the entire disk rather than
    selected partitions. I do that for two main reasons:
    1. Doing so adds only a trivial amount of data & time to the backup.

    For sure.

    2. Doing so gives me the ability to write that image to a disk that then >becomes bootable.

    This part I don't understand. What good is a disk that becomes
    bootable if one can't boot from a USB drive anyhow. Are you talking
    about taking that bootable disk and inserting it in the computer? If
    so, why isnt' a clone good for that too.

    And by the way, it says that one cannot boot from a USB drive, but when
    I bought my HP Desktop computer 4 or 5 years ago, I was able to boot it
    from a clone of the previous HDD in a USB dock. Unfortunately, the
    refurbisher had sent the wrong model and when I got the right model, an EliteDesk, it could not boot from that particular clone.

    I haven't been following micky's story closely, so I don't know if my >approach would work for him.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to winstonmvp@gmail.com on Mon Mar 10 10:38:52 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:14:35 -0700,
    ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:

    micky wrote on 2/16/2025 11:45 AM:
    Good to know. It's not too late to replace the clone with an image
    backup. No need to keep the clone especially if one can't boot from a
    usb-connected drive.

    (In my 10 years of using Macrium Reflect (Free), I've never
    cloned a disk (or partiotion).)

    [...]

    To close this out...
    Two days ago, a Macrium article you referenced indicated that your
    original expectation that a Macrium clone to a USB connected disk was not >bootable media.
    i.e. after cloning the primary Windows disk(or its selected partitions)
    to a USB connected disk that same USB disk is not a bootable option.

    Do you now understand the difference(after input from multiple sources) >between imaging and cloning:
    Imaging your Windows partitions -for backup/restore purposes
    vs.
    Cloning - primarily for one of three options - upgrading[replacing a
    disk with a larger one or replacing the disk with a new disk or moving >everything from one computer to another computer

    Y/N?

    Yes.

    If yes, are you now ready to use Macrium Reflect Free(or any other
    Macrium version) to image your disk?

    Yes.

    If yes, do you also realized that if you use Macrium to image Windows(and
    its 4 GPT partitions) to a USB connected device, that device will also
    ***not be bootable***. It will be available for restoration(everthing >imaged/all or individaul partitions), restoring/copying individual files,
    or just inspection when neeeded?

    Got it. If I have more quesions weeks from now, i'll start another
    thread.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Char Jackson@21:1/5 to pick which image I want to on Mon Mar 10 13:24:22 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Mon, 10 Mar 2025 10:33:35 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
    wrote:

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 16 Feb 2025 17:53:11 -0600, Char
    Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:

    [...]

    When I image the Windows disk, I image the entire disk rather than
    selected partitions. I do that for two main reasons:
    1. Doing so adds only a trivial amount of data & time to the backup.

    For sure.

    2. Doing so gives me the ability to write that image to a disk that then >>becomes bootable.

    This part I don't understand. What good is a disk that becomes
    bootable if one can't boot from a USB drive anyhow. Are you talking
    about taking that bootable disk and inserting it in the computer?

    Possibly, yes. It's good to have options, and to keep those options
    open.

    As you know, you can create a clone or an image from a storage device.
    - If you create an image you can use it to create a clone.
    - If you create a clone you can use it to create an image.

    Clones and images contain the same data, with their primary difference
    being the container. A clone expects to be using the entire drive, at
    least initially, while an image just uses the amount of space that its
    size requires. Thus, with a larger target drive, you can use it to hold
    just one clone versus multiple disk images. Later, if your system disk
    dies, you can do one of the following:
    - if you created a clone, you can simply disconnect the dead drive,
    plug in the cloned drive, and off you go.
    - if you created one or more images, you might use a second computer to
    write one of those images to a new drive, essentially creating a clone
    of the drive that you previously imaged, and now you can swap drives and
    away you go.

    In that respect, you might say that images are less efficient because of
    the extra steps required to use them, but from a storage perspective
    images are far more efficient because a large drive can hold multiple
    images but only one clone.

    In my case, my Windows system drive is 512GB, one half of a TB, while my
    data drives are 18TB. It wouldn't make much sense to dedicate an entire
    18TB drive to holding a clone of a 512GB drive. OTOH, that 18TB drive
    could hold lots of images so that if I run into issues later I could
    pick which image I want to write out to a new drive and boot from.

    If so, why isnt' a clone good for that too.

    Hopefully, now it makes sense. Clones and images are far more alike than
    they are different, and if you have one, you can use it to create the
    other.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to nospam@needed.invalid on Tue Apr 1 18:08:57 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 16 Feb 2025 09:21:34 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

    On Sat, 2/15/2025 11:34 PM, micky wrote:
    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:58:43 -0600, "Allan
    Higdon" <allanh@vivaldi.net> wrote:

    On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 07:42:50 -0600, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote: >>>
    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 15 Feb 2025 04:51:04 -0600, "Allan
    Higdon" <allanh@vivaldi.net> wrote:

    On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 21:27:20 -0600, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote: >>>>>
    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something >>>>>> goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced >>>>>> me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free, even if you have the last free >>>>>> version (which I have and which I think is also available on Geeks) -- >>>>>> because it wants your email address to send you a code and when they do >>>>>> email you, there is no code, only a link to a page where you can buy it. >>>>>> However I had the email they sent me with a code 3 years ago, and it >>>>>> also gave a link where I could change my communication preferences. That >>>>>> page was still there. And both the page and the email showed what email >>>>>> address I had used at the time, and the combination of proper email >>>>>> address and old code let it install. Save your old email!!


    During the install, the License key is filled in.
    After agreeing to Personal Use, deselect "Register this installation". >>>>
    It's installed on my new computer now, and it works, so it's too late to >>>> see if this would have been simpler than what I did, but there are lots >>>> of other people online saying that the free version no longer exists,
    and afaict no one saying otherwise.
    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Macrium+Reflect+Free+is+no+longer+free
    It's good that I kept my code from 3 years ago. When I first tried to >>>> install MRF, it insisted on a valid email address and, after I got the >>>> email**, a code. I think it would have the last, the successful time too >>>> except I had already entered them.

    **The email said "Please use the following link to receive a
    registration code. https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree " but the link >>>> was not personalized for me, and it did not provide a code, just
    information about "30-Day Free Trial"s.


    I had no problem installing Macrium Free (v8.0.7783).

    When did you do this? Their policy may have changed. (I'm using the
    same version.)

    Since there's a License key filled in for the Free version, you can deselect "Register this installation",
    and the install can continue without any email address or code to enter.

    I think I have it installed on all 3 PC's now, and I don't want to
    uninstall just to test this, but.... My firm recollection is that a
    line at the top of that box said something like "Register or cancel
    installation".


    I have the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of that installer on disk.
    There is no monkey business, no arm twisting, no need to add a code
    at all. Just click the boxes and go.

    [Picture]

    https://i.postimg.cc/C58hhGD3/Macrium-Reflect-Free-807783-Install.gif

    Very complete pictures.

    The last pane in the picture, is not particularly well done, and it
    is there just to show "the program launched". It's not a beauty contest

    I understood it.

    You have me at a disadvantage. I checked and I do have it installed on
    all 3 pcs. Any chance when you uninstalled it, you left behind the code
    it needed to reinstall? Regardless, I'm saying what happened to me.

    because I resized it to line up with the size of the other pictures.
    I used Irfanview panorama to make a film strip of them.

    Very clever!

    Install was done on W11, in VMWare, to avoid polluting my DailyDriver
    in any way. Push the button, it is all gone.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Daniel70@21:1/5 to micky on Wed May 28 00:16:14 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 15/02/2025 2:27 pm, micky wrote:
    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something
    goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced
    me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free,

    I've just downloaded "Macrium Reflect Free" from ...

    https://www.4ddig.net/hard-drive/macrium-reflect-download-bing.html?msclkid=c898927954f218c15ca6fa4c957eddca&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Partition_EN_Search_Bing_DSA_S_PID7386&utm_term=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.4ddig.net%2Fhard-drive%2Fmacrium-
    reflect-download-bing.html&utm_content=Clone

    and part of its Installation Agreement includes ....

    "You may use unregistered version of this Software as long as you wish.
    If you wish to use 4DDiG Partition Manager without functional
    limitations, you MUST register it."

    I expect to just be using its Basic Back-up Function. Do you know
    something I'm about to find out??

    even if you have the last free
    version (which I have and which I think is also available on Geeks) -- because it wants your email address to send you a code and when they do
    email you, there is no code, only a link to a page where you can buy it. However I had the email they sent me with a code 3 years ago, and it
    also gave a link where I could change my communication preferences. That
    page was still there. And both the page and the email showed what email address I had used at the time, and the combination of proper email
    address and old code let it install. Save your old email!!

    https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW80/Cloning+a+disk#Cloningadisk-0
    says "Important
    Windows cannot boot from a USB-connected drive. This is a restriction
    imposed by Microsoft. If you clone your system disk to a USB-connected external drive then, to boot your clone, the physical disk must be
    removed from the USB caddy and attached internally." I can't very
    easily do that with a laptop, especially with a 5 1/4" drive. Is this actually true? Still true?? The page that says it was "Last modified
    by Macrium Software on Dec 05, 2022" Was it true 2 years ago?

    Lots of people on the web say otherwise now, for example, from December
    of 2013 (13!!!): "You need to enable booting from non-EFI devices. This option can be found in most BIOSs called the Compatibility Support
    Module or CSM. This option is sometimes hidden until you disable Secure
    Boot. I've also seen it hidden until Fast Boot is disabled. Once you
    enable the CSM module and set it to boot EFI + Legacy boot devices you shouldn't have any trouble booting your USB device."


    Sent from the new laptop, so I'm making progress. One big advantage of Forte Agent is that it only needs to be copied in, doesn't have to be installed.

    --
    Daniel70

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Allan Higdon@21:1/5 to daniel47@eternal-september.org on Tue May 27 10:34:46 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Tue, 27 May 2025 09:16:14 -0500, Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:

    I've just downloaded "Macrium Reflect Free" from ...

    https://www.4ddig.net/hard-drive/macrium-reflect-download-bing.html?msclkid=c898927954f218c15ca6fa4c957eddca&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Partition_EN_Search_Bing_DSA_S_PID7386&utm_term=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.4ddig.net%2Fhard-drive%2Fmacrium-
    reflect-download-bing.html&utm_content=Clone

    and part of its Installation Agreement includes ....

    "You may use unregistered version of this Software as long as you wish.
    If you wish to use 4DDiG Partition Manager without functional
    limitations, you MUST register it."

    I expect to just be using its Basic Back-up Function. Do you know
    something I'm about to find out??


    I'm not sure that the link you posted is for Macrium Reflect Free.
    I am sure that https://download.macrium.com/reflect/v8/v8.0.7783/reflect_setup_free_x64.exe is for the Free version.
    I did not have the same problem as micky.

    During the install, the License key is filled in. 75-NAMC-V1E4-ADRR-7WM7-ANH3-6TKDC7W
    After agreeing to Personal Use, deselect "Register this installation".
    I did not even need to enter an email address.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 27 14:31:48 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Tue, 5/27/2025 10:16 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 15/02/2025 2:27 pm, micky wrote:
    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something
    goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced
    me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free,

    I've just downloaded "Macrium Reflect Free" from ...

    https://www.4ddig.net/hard-drive/macrium-reflect-download-bing.html?msclkid=c898927954f218c15ca6fa4c957eddca&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Partition_EN_Search_Bing_DSA_S_PID7386&utm_term=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.4ddig.net%2Fhard-drive%2Fmacrium-
    reflect-download-bing.html&utm_content=Clone

    and part of its Installation Agreement includes ....

    "You may use unregistered version of this Software as long as you wish.
    If you wish to use 4DDiG Partition Manager without functional limitations, you MUST register it."

    I expect to just be using its Basic Back-up Function. Do you know something I'm about to find out??

    even if you have the last free
    version (which I have and which I think is also available on Geeks) --
    because it wants your email address to send you a code and when they do
    email you, there is no code, only a link to a page where you can buy it.
    However I had the email they sent me with a code 3 years ago, and it
    also gave a link where I could change my communication preferences. That
    page was still there.  And both the page and the email showed what email
    address I had used at the time, and the combination of proper email
    address and old code let it install.  Save your old email!!

    https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW80/Cloning+a+disk#Cloningadisk-0
    says "Important
    Windows cannot boot from a USB-connected drive. This is a restriction
    imposed by Microsoft. If you clone your system disk to a USB-connected
    external drive then, to boot your clone,  the physical disk must be
    removed from the USB caddy and attached internally."  I can't very
    easily do that with a laptop, especially with a 5 1/4" drive.  Is this
    actually true?    Still true??  The page that says it was "Last modified >> by Macrium Software on Dec 05, 2022" Was it true 2 years ago?

    Lots of people on the web say otherwise now, for example, from December
    of 2013  (13!!!): "You need to enable booting from non-EFI devices. This
    option can be found in most BIOSs called the Compatibility Support
    Module or CSM. This option is sometimes hidden until you disable Secure
    Boot. I've also seen it hidden until Fast Boot is disabled. Once you
    enable the CSM module and set it to boot EFI + Legacy boot devices you
    shouldn't have any trouble booting your USB device."


    Sent from the new laptop, so I'm making progress.   One big advantage of >> Forte Agent is that it only needs to be copied in, doesn't have to be
    installed.


    That's a dodgy-deflection-link. The company seeks to implant a copy of their software, and not the thing they stuffed for SEO purposes, so search engines would pick up the item.

    https://www.4ddig.net/hard-drive/macrium-reflect-download-bing.html

    A first-grade link, has the company domain in the path. Allan has
    given you an example of a quality first-grade link.

    https://www.majorgeeks.com/ is fairly good at offering downloads, and
    you use the Google box in the upper right of that screen to find things.
    You have to stay out of the "Sponsored" section at the top and a link right below that would be a reasonable choice.

    https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/macrium_reflect_free_edition.html

    That site, the advertising is still a mine field, and may require clicking
    the reload button. But after advancing to the next step, give it a few seconds to put up the download dialog on the screen. In this particular case, the download is likely to be coming direct from macrium.com . While the majorgeeks person hosts a lot of archival copies on the site, for high volume
    items which are still available, the linkage actually uses the manufacturer site.

    *******

    Regarding your new computer (24 AIO). It has one SODIMM slot and it comes with an 8GB SODIMM installed. The maximum memory is to buy a 16GB SODIMM,
    unplug the 8GB one and install the 16GB one. The processor cannot handle
    more than 16GB and it has only one memory channel. DDR4 SODIMM memory is the type.
    Since there is a possibility that manufacturing of DDR4 will stop
    at the end of this year, if you have any plans on upgrading the memory,
    the plan should be executed before the end of the year arrives.

    This utility allows you to review the memory details. Using the last tab
    over, you can save a copy of a text report, which is capable of giving
    even more info.

    https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

    zip * english \___ portable version
    32 or 64-bit version /

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Daniel70@21:1/5 to Paul on Wed May 28 20:12:53 2025
    XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 28/05/2025 4:31 am, Paul wrote:
    On Tue, 5/27/2025 10:16 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 15/02/2025 2:27 pm, micky wrote:
    Okay, even though I still don't think I have a lot to lose if something
    goes wrong, Newyana's tactful urging and Paul's nagging have convinced
    me to backup first.

    Macrium Reflect Free is no longer free,

    I've just downloaded "Macrium Reflect Free" from ...

    https://www.4ddig.net/hard-drive/macrium-reflect-download-bing.html?msclkid=c898927954f218c15ca6fa4c957eddca&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Partition_EN_Search_Bing_DSA_S_PID7386&utm_term=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.4ddig.net%2Fhard-drive%2Fmacrium-
    reflect-download-bing.html&utm_content=Clone

    and part of its Installation Agreement includes ....

    "You may use unregistered version of this Software as long as you wish.
    If you wish to use 4DDiG Partition Manager without functional limitations, you MUST register it."

    I expect to just be using its Basic Back-up Function. Do you know something I'm about to find out??

    even if you have the last free
    version (which I have and which I think is also available on Geeks) --
    because it wants your email address to send you a code and when they do
    email you, there is no code, only a link to a page where you can buy it. >>> However I had the email they sent me with a code 3 years ago, and it
    also gave a link where I could change my communication preferences. That >>> page was still there.  And both the page and the email showed what email >>> address I had used at the time, and the combination of proper email
    address and old code let it install.  Save your old email!!

    https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW80/Cloning+a+disk#Cloningadisk-0
    says "Important
    Windows cannot boot from a USB-connected drive. This is a restriction
    imposed by Microsoft. If you clone your system disk to a USB-connected
    external drive then, to boot your clone,  the physical disk must be
    removed from the USB caddy and attached internally."  I can't very
    easily do that with a laptop, especially with a 5 1/4" drive.  Is this
    actually true?    Still true??  The page that says it was "Last modified
    by Macrium Software on Dec 05, 2022" Was it true 2 years ago?

    Lots of people on the web say otherwise now, for example, from December
    of 2013  (13!!!): "You need to enable booting from non-EFI devices. This >>> option can be found in most BIOSs called the Compatibility Support
    Module or CSM. This option is sometimes hidden until you disable Secure
    Boot. I've also seen it hidden until Fast Boot is disabled. Once you
    enable the CSM module and set it to boot EFI + Legacy boot devices you
    shouldn't have any trouble booting your USB device."


    Sent from the new laptop, so I'm making progress.   One big advantage of >>> Forte Agent is that it only needs to be copied in, doesn't have to be
    installed.


    That's a dodgy-deflection-link. The company seeks to implant a copy of their software, and not the thing they stuffed for SEO purposes, so search engines would pick up the item.

    https://www.4ddig.net/hard-drive/macrium-reflect-download-bing.html

    A first-grade link, has the company domain in the path. Allan has
    given you an example of a quality first-grade link.

    https://www.majorgeeks.com/ is fairly good at offering downloads, and
    you use the Google box in the upper right of that screen to find things.
    You have to stay out of the "Sponsored" section at the top and a link right below that would be a reasonable choice.

    https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/macrium_reflect_free_edition.html

    That site, the advertising is still a mine field, and may require clicking the reload button. But after advancing to the next step, give it a few seconds
    to put up the download dialog on the screen. In this particular case, the download is likely to be coming direct from macrium.com . While the majorgeeks
    person hosts a lot of archival copies on the site, for high volume
    items which are still available, the linkage actually uses the manufacturer site.

    *******

    Regarding your new computer (24 AIO). It has one SODIMM slot and it comes with
    an 8GB SODIMM installed. The maximum memory is to buy a 16GB SODIMM,
    unplug the 8GB one and install the 16GB one. The processor cannot handle
    more than 16GB and it has only one memory channel. DDR4 SODIMM memory is the type.
    Since there is a possibility that manufacturing of DDR4 will stop
    at the end of this year, if you have any plans on upgrading the memory,
    the plan should be executed before the end of the year arrives.

    This utility allows you to review the memory details. Using the last tab over, you can save a copy of a text report, which is capable of giving
    even more info.

    https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

    zip * english \___ portable version
    32 or 64-bit version /

    Paul


    O.K., no need to bash my head against the Wall .... I've uninstalled and deleted the 4dd version and downloaded and installed the version from
    the link Alan provided.

    Thank you both.
    --
    Daniel70

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)