Marion, 2025-04-07 22:34:
[...]
When an IPA is installed on an iOS device, it's signed with a provisioning profile that is tied to a specific Apple Developer account and a set of authorized devices. For apps downloaded from the App Store, this process is managed by Apple and linked to your Apple ID.
All apps, even those which might be considered "free & open source" suffer this process, since every single app ever downloaded from Apple's App Store restricts their usage to the Apple ID that originally downloaded them.
Well - in that case this is irrelevant, since free apps can be
downloaded again from the original source.
That *is* a difference with (free (as in no-cost)) Android apps and
many free Windows software. That's why I save Android APKs [1] and
Windows install packages, in case I want/need to install them on a new device. (Case in point: The *22 year old* Hamster news server which
brings you this article! :-))
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Marion, 2025-04-07 22:34:
[...]
When an IPA is installed on an iOS device, it's signed with a provisioning >>> profile that is tied to a specific Apple Developer account and a set of
authorized devices. For apps downloaded from the App Store, this process is >>> managed by Apple and linked to your Apple ID.
All apps, even those which might be considered "free & open source" suffer >>> this process, since every single app ever downloaded from Apple's App Store >>> restricts their usage to the Apple ID that originally downloaded them.
Well - in that case this is irrelevant, since free apps can be
downloaded again from the original source.
I have no beef in this (non-)discussion, but you can only download
again, if the "original source" still exists!
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-09 17:35:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Marion, 2025-04-07 22:34:
[...]
When an IPA is installed on an iOS device, it's signed with a
provisioning profile that is tied to a specific Apple Developer
account and a set of authorized devices. For apps downloaded from
the App Store, this process is managed by Apple and linked to your
Apple ID.
All apps, even those which might be considered "free & open
source" suffer this process, since every single app ever
downloaded from Apple's App Store restricts their usage to the
Apple ID that originally downloaded them.
Well - in that case this is irrelevant, since free apps can be
downloaded again from the original source.
I have no beef in this (non-)discussion, but you can only download
again, if the "original source" still exists!
Which also applies to Android. So what?
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-09 17:35:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Marion, 2025-04-07 22:34:
[...]
When an IPA is installed on an iOS device, it's signed with a
provisioning profile that is tied to a specific Apple Developer
account and a set of authorized devices. For apps downloaded from
the App Store, this process is managed by Apple and linked to your
Apple ID.
All apps, even those which might be considered "free & open
source" suffer this process, since every single app ever
downloaded from Apple's App Store restricts their usage to the
Apple ID that originally downloaded them.
Well - in that case this is irrelevant, since free apps can be
downloaded again from the original source.
I have no beef in this (non-)discussion, but you can only download
again, if the "original source" still exists!
Which also applies to Android. So what?
Ah! You now resort to lying by omission? In the (big) part you 'conveniently' silently snipped, I specificall said (amongst others)
"That's why I save Android APKs ...".
On 2025-04-11, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-09 17:35:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Marion, 2025-04-07 22:34:
[...]
When an IPA is installed on an iOS device, it's signed with a
provisioning profile that is tied to a specific Apple Developer
account and a set of authorized devices. For apps downloaded from
the App Store, this process is managed by Apple and linked to your
Apple ID.
All apps, even those which might be considered "free & open
source" suffer this process, since every single app ever
downloaded from Apple's App Store restricts their usage to the
Apple ID that originally downloaded them.
Well - in that case this is irrelevant, since free apps can be
downloaded again from the original source.
I have no beef in this (non-)discussion, but you can only download
again, if the "original source" still exists!
Which also applies to Android. So what?
Ah! You now resort to lying by omission? In the (big) part you 'conveniently' silently snipped, I specificall said (amongst others) "That's why I save Android APKs ...".
I've been backing up my iOS app IPAs for years, and have every version
going back to around 2008 archived. Apparently what I am doing is
impossible or something. What have I been doing wrong all this time?
Marion, 2025-04-09 22:43:[...]
Even an iTunes "backup" of that last known good version of an app does not contain a re-usable IPA to that last known good version of that iOS app.
Yes, the same as in Android. Android backups do not backup everything
and apps installer files will not be backed up at all, just the list
which app should be installed.
Well - in that case this is irrelevant, since free apps can be
downloaded again from the original source.
you can only download
again, if the "original source" still exists!
Which also applies to Android. So what?
Ah! You now resort to lying by omission? In the (big) part you >>'conveniently' silently snipped, I specificall said (amongst others) >>"That's why I save Android APKs ...".
So in the iOS case,
if the original source does no longer exist,
you're out of luck, but in the Android case, you can install the app
from it's backed up APK.
Sometimes I use an old backed up apk even when the Play Store and/or Amazon
Appstore still has the app available because I like the old version better.
Course I have to turn off the automatic app updates and do them manually, a
bit of a PITA but then I've got lots of free time...
I've been backing up my iOS app IPAs for years, and have every version
going back to around 2008 archived. Apparently what I am doing is
impossible or something. What have I been doing wrong all this time?
You tell *them*! As I said, "I have no beef in this (non-)discussion,"
But I also thought that you could backup and restore iOS apps. At
least that's what You Guys (TM) have been telling us.
I don't know either way, because I don't have any iOS devices.
Also there are many other backup apps for Android, which can also backup/restore APKs.
How is it a "bit of a pita" when every APK you installed is always >>automatically saved to your Windows PC (as Android is mounted as a drive)?
<https://i.postimg.cc/hjkVFyqJ/scrcpy07.jpg> Android mnt as drive letter
I think you misunderstood me. Let me give an example. I'm now posting using
an Amazon Fire HD10 tablet. It came with the Amazon Appstore. I have since
installed Google stuff on it and thus it also has the Play Store. Both
stores came set to automatically update apps.
So when I install an old preferred apk version of a still available (in the
stores) app on this tablet it wouldn't stay old long because one of the
stores would automatically update it to the current version.
So I've turned off auto-updating in both stores. The PITA is that I now have
to periodically check both stores and manually update the other apps that
do need updates...
On 11 Apr 2025 17:39:23 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote :
Also there are many other backup apps for Android, which can also
backup/restore APKs.
Frank is correct in that there are *many* installer backup mechanisms for every common consumer operating system other than for Apple's iOS OS.
What's unique about iOS is that it's *impossible* to back up the IPA.
And that's bad.
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Marion, 2025-04-09 22:43:[...]
Even an iTunes "backup" of that last known good version of an app does not >>> contain a re-usable IPA to that last known good version of that iOS app.
Yes, the same as in Android. Android backups do not backup everything
and apps installer files will not be backed up at all, just the list
which app should be installed.
That depends on which backup method is used. For the 'built-in' Backup
by Google One method, you're correct. But for example Samsung's Smart
Switch program, can/does backup and restore APKs.
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-11 19:39:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Marion, 2025-04-09 22:43:[...]
Even an iTunes "backup" of that last known good version of an app does notYes, the same as in Android. Android backups do not backup everything
contain a re-usable IPA to that last known good version of that iOS app. >>
and apps installer files will not be backed up at all, just the list
which app should be installed.
That depends on which backup method is used. For the 'built-in' Backup
by Google One method, you're correct. But for example Samsung's Smart Switch program, can/does backup and restore APKs.
Theat's irrelevant. Not everybody uses Samsung devices. So we MUST ONLY
talk about the default backup provided by Android itself which is also implemented by LineageOS BTW.
On 11 Apr 2025 17:32:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote :
I've been backing up my iOS app IPAs for years, and have every
version going back to around 2008 archived. Apparently what I am
doing is impossible or something. What have I been doing wrong all
this time?
You tell *them*! As I said, "I have no beef in this
(non-)discussion,"
But I also thought that you could backup and restore iOS apps. At
least that's what You Guys (TM) have been telling us.
I don't know either way, because I don't have any iOS devices.
Frank,
Please don't be bamboozled by the deceitful Apple troll's lies.
I do have iOS devices, Frank. Plenty. And I know how iTunes works. So
does Jolly Roger. He's lying.
C'mon Jolly Roger. Tell us that you installed the current Windows
iTunes 12.13.7.1 and then you did a full backup & you were able to
save the IPA.
C'mon Jolly Roger. Tell us that you installed the current Windows
iTunes 12.13.7.1 and then you did a full backup & you were able to
save the IPA.
I've explained in detail how to back up IPA files of the apps you've installed right here in these newsgroups, and clearly you ignored it
then. You're the *last* person I'm going to repeat myself to. Fuck off
if you can't be bothered to read what I already told you. Your trolls
are ultra-weak which is blatantly obvious to anyone who knows better.
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:[...]
Theat's irrelevant. Not everybody uses Samsung devices. So we MUST ONLY
talk about the default backup provided by Android itself which is also
implemented by LineageOS BTW.
Nope, we must not. As I said, and you again 'conveniently' dishonestly snipped:
<unsnip>
Also there are many other backup apps for Android, which can also backup/restore APKs.
</unsnip>
That's the beauty about a platform like Android, choice.
As this is the second time you try to make your point by lying by omission, it's EOD.
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
[...]That's the beauty about a platform like Android, choice.
Sure - but "using a backup app" is not using what Android itself is providing.
Google also provides a backup feature in Android itself which also
allows to transfer data from one device to another when you switch
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
That's the beauty about a platform like Android, choice.
Sure - but "using a backup app" is not using what Android itself is providing.
Google also provides a backup feature in Android itself which also[...]
allows to transfer data from one device to another when you switch
In addition - see here: <https://support.google.com/android/answer/2819582?hl=en>
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the backup to another device using USB and so on.
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:[...]
Theat's irrelevant. Not everybody uses Samsung devices. So we MUST ONLY
talk about the default backup provided by Android itself which is also
implemented by LineageOS BTW.
Nope, we must not. As I said, and you again 'conveniently' dishonestly
snipped:
<unsnip>
Also there are many other backup apps for Android, which can also
backup/restore APKs.
</unsnip>
That's irrelevant in the context "what does the operating system provide".
That's the beauty about a platform like Android, choice.
Sure - but "using a backup app" is not using what Android itself is providing.
Google also provides a backup feature in Android itself which also
allows to transfer data from one device to another when you switch
devices. But as I also explained: APK files are not included, because
not every APK file will work on every device, since APK files are device specific packages and not universal installers. Most of the time it
works, but there is no guarantee for it and it is much safer to
reinstall apps on a new device by downloading it again, so always the
correct version will be used.
As this is the second time you try to make your point by lying by
omission, it's EOD.
I did not try to make anything. I just explained, how ANDROID ITSELF works.
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.
The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 21:56:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :
I remember once that I did a factory reset on an old phone, intending to
install the same things for another account. I could not install again
some of the apps because the Android version was old, and they no longer
had those apps in G Play.
I can concur with Carlos, and pretty much everyone in the world, in that we've all, at times, reset a PC or mobile device w/o having EVERYTHING
backed up prior. We've learned from all those mistakes over time.
For example, on Windows, I save every install where it belongs.
(e.g., c:\installers\shells\android\adb)
I then install each & every program where it belongs.
(e.g., c:\apps\shells\android\adb)
And of course, I add a shortcut to the taskbar menu where it belongs.
(e.g., menus > shells > android > adb.lnk
And, for some programs, I keep data where it belongs, but that's harder.
(e.g., c:\data\shells\android\adb)
To back up the installers is as simply as copying "installers".
It's the same with most operating systems not designed by Apple.
With Android, the google play store replacement app saves the installer.
Even Android saves the installer (so it's actually auto-saved twice).
That allows plenty of backup & restore strategies for the user.
The main point of this offshoot though is that if you *want* to back up
your Android APKs, you can (and in fact, it's mostly done already for you).
Same with Linux & Windows.
But on iOS, you can't.
And that's bad.
I remember once that I did a factory reset on an old phone, intending to install the same things for another account. I could not install again
some of the apps because the Android version was old, and they no longer
had those apps in G Play.
On 2025-04-14 17:26, Marion wrote:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 21:56:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :
I remember once that I did a factory reset on an old phone, intending to >>> install the same things for another account. I could not install again
some of the apps because the Android version was old, and they no longer >>> had those apps in G Play.
I can concur with Carlos, and pretty much everyone in the world, in that
we've all, at times, reset a PC or mobile device w/o having EVERYTHING
backed up prior. We've learned from all those mistakes over time.
For example, on Windows, I save every install where it belongs.
(e.g., c:\installers\shells\android\adb)
I then install each & every program where it belongs.
(e.g., c:\apps\shells\android\adb)
And of course, I add a shortcut to the taskbar menu where it belongs.
(e.g., menus > shells > android > adb.lnk
And, for some programs, I keep data where it belongs, but that's harder.
(e.g., c:\data\shells\android\adb)
To back up the installers is as simply as copying "installers".
It's the same with most operating systems not designed by Apple.
With Android, the google play store replacement app saves the installer.
Even Android saves the installer (so it's actually auto-saved twice).
That allows plenty of backup & restore strategies for the user.
The main point of this offshoot though is that if you *want* to back up
your Android APKs, you can (and in fact, it's mostly done already for
you).
Same with Linux & Windows.
But on iOS, you can't.
And that's bad.
And you never once mention the importance of backing up one's DATA.
Apps can be (usually) be installed from the same source you got them in
the first place, but the data you create, accumulate and store in those
apps can't be recovered from anywhere.
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience >> by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.
The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup
app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
Using my Motorola phone I can transfer from old phone to new phone most things. But not to disk. And I don't remember if all data is
transferred. Photos, maps...
I'm surprised you didn't know this!
On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 21:22:45 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote :
I'm surprised you didn't know this!
EDIT: (There's a plan for backing up data in the 2nd half of this missive.)
It's no longer shocking what Alan Baker will insist can't be, when everyone but Alan Baker knows it (see a perfect example in my own header above).
Alan Baker has owned a bimmer for years and yet disputed what they're commonly called in technical circles; and Alan Baker claims to 'teach
racing' and yet clearly has never studied the physics involved in
navigating differently various basic curves.
Alan Baker insists Apple has never done wrong (simply because, to him,
paying a half a billion dollars so that they don't have to admit guilt is proof that Apple cannot do wrong because Apple has too much money to do
so).
Even the fact that Apple was charged with crimes and that Apple paid the French prosecutor for those crimes, means, to Alan, that it never happened.
Moving on ... we're here to improve our technical knowledge, where I have (what I think is) sage advice for how to plan on backing up all your data.have to
As for the technical aspect of backing up data, I've been doing that for as many decades as the rest of you have, starting back in the 1960's on
magtape and punched cards (sorry, I never learned how to use punched tape).
It's my opinion, based on experience, that on Linux/Windows, you
plan for your data backup the day you set up your system. This is why I
have a directory for data on Windows that exactly mirrors the app dir.
installers: C:\software\editors\text\gvim\.
apps: C:\apps\editors\text\gvim\.
Taskbar menu: menu > editors > text > gvim.lnk
data: C:\data\editors\text\gvim\. (e.g., tmp files & settings)
Your plan banks on being able to set the data directory of each program at the time you install that program. Fat chance getting Adobe products to respect that plan; but there are programs out there which allow you to set the data directory (e.g., OSMAnd~ on Android allows you a map directory).
However, executing the strategic plan of backing up data is sort of like
what happens during war the moment there is contact with the enemy.
The enemy gets a vote.
Hence, no plan survives intact after contact with the enemy.
It's the same with backing up your data.
The only plan that works all the time is to plan how you're going to back
up your system the day you set up that system - and then - you modify that plan upon contact with each app or program.
Consider the program installation your first contact with the enemy.
And change the plan accordingly - since the program gets a vote.
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as >>>> well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience >>>> by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the >>>> backup to another device using USB and so on.
The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. >>> The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup
app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
I have no real suggestion/solution, other than adb (and MTP).
An (non-Google) Android app cannot provide a solution, because on a non-rooted phone, it can't backup the /Internal storage/Android folders (data, obb?, others?), which contains the settings and data of all the
apps.
Because I have a Samsung phone, I could use the Samsung Smart Switch program on Windows, but that is not flexible enough for backing up what
you want and not backing up what you don't want. It is oriented in
categories instead of in folders and for some categories, it's all or nothing.
Using my Motorola phone I can transfer from old phone to new phone most
things. But not to disk. And I don't remember if all data is
transferred. Photos, maps...
You could try the 'Smart Switch Mobile' [1] [2] Android app. For
transfer to another device, it runs on any (i.e. also non-Samsung)
device. I don't know if it then can also make backup (to cloud, SD-card
or USB-stick). The reference [2] implies it can. (I do no longer have a recent/working non-Samsung device to try.)
Same for the Smart Switch PC program for Windows [2]. Probably only
works if the source is a Samsung device (reference [2] only works if you specify 'GALAXY'), but you can try.
For a non-automated backup you can use MTP. With MTP you *can* access
the /Internal storage/Android folders. For example in Windows File
Explorer, this accesses the folder which contains the OsmAnd+ maps:
This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files
But 'This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage' is only accessible
in File Explorer, it's not part of the normal file system, nor
accessible as a Network Share, so you can't use normal copy or backup utilities. (Perhaps in Windows PowerShell one can 'program'/control File Explorer? No idea.)
The MTP method should also work in Linux (and on macOS? and on
ChromeOS?).
FWIW, because of these limitations, I no longer bother with full
Android backup. I only backup the folders which *are* accessible on a non-rooted device.
For all my apps, at least the important ones, I investigate if I can recover/recreate the settings or/and data, if I lose them. For example
in OsmAnd+ you can export settings, etc, and backup those and all maps
can be reloaded. For apps which have complicated settings, which can not
be exported/backed-up, I document which settings I have changed. Some
apps have their own backup methods (for example WhatsApp). Some apps
only need account credentials. Etc. etc.. Of course this whole mechanism
is documented in a file which *is* backed up! :-)
Sofar, in nearly 12 years, I haven't had any major mishaps, so I'll continue to use my "Can not backup, so prepare to recover recreate.'
method.
Hope this helps.
[1]
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sec.android.easyMover>
[2]
<https://www.samsung.com/us/apps/smart-switch/>
See 'How to transfer' -> GALAXY -> Backup and restore from PC or Mac -> Windows
For using the Smart Switch Mobile Android app to *backup* (not
transfer), see 'Other Android' -> 'Backup and restore from external
storage'
On 2025-04-15 15:18, Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
For a non-automated backup you can use MTP. With MTP you *can* access the /Internal storage/Android folders. For example in Windows File Explorer, this accesses the folder which contains the OsmAnd+ maps:
MTP is what I do. Sometimes I have used a WiFi file server app on the
phone instead. Sometimes I found that one can see files the other
doesn't, but I don't remember which.
This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files
But 'This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage' is only accessible
in File Explorer, it's not part of the normal file system, nor
accessible as a Network Share, so you can't use normal copy or backup utilities. (Perhaps in Windows PowerShell one can 'program'/control File Explorer? No idea.)
In Linux we can access the filesystem. Once I tell the equivalent of the
file explorer to access the phone, then it is also accessible under:
/run/user/1000/gvfs/mtp:host=motorola_moto_g52_SOME_LETTERS
for any app. This is using with a gtk desktop, with KDE it is somewhere
else.
Then I can use rsync and copy links to the files in the previous backup.
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-04-15 15:18, Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
For a non-automated backup you can use MTP. With MTP you *can* access >>> the /Internal storage/Android folders. For example in Windows File
Explorer, this accesses the folder which contains the OsmAnd+ maps:
MTP is what I do. Sometimes I have used a WiFi file server app on the
phone instead. Sometimes I found that one can see files the other
doesn't, but I don't remember which.
Yes, I have also found such servers, but none for recent Android
versions (10 and higher), which can access the /Internal storage/Android folders.
This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files
But 'This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage' is only accessible >>> in File Explorer, it's not part of the normal file system, nor
accessible as a Network Share, so you can't use normal copy or backup
utilities. (Perhaps in Windows PowerShell one can 'program'/control File >>> Explorer? No idea.)
In Linux we can access the filesystem. Once I tell the equivalent of the
file explorer to access the phone, then it is also accessible under:
/run/user/1000/gvfs/mtp:host=motorola_moto_g52_SOME_LETTERS
for any app. This is using with a gtk desktop, with KDE it is somewhere
else.
Then I can use rsync and copy links to the files in the previous backup.
Could you give an example (Linux) 'cp' command which shows what the
source and destination paths look like?
In Windows you can't specify a source path for a 'copy', etc., because such a path does not exist for MTP, so - being an old Unix/UNIX and
current GNU user - I am interested what it looks like on Linux (for
MTP).
Or is the source just a path relative to /run/user/1000/gvfs/mtp?
[...]
On 2025-04-15 20:27, Frank Slootweg wrote:
  In Windows you can't specify a source path for a 'copy', etc., because >> such a path does not exist for MTP, so - being an old Unix/UNIX and
current GNU user - I am interested what it looks like on Linux (for
MTP).
  Or is the source just a path relative to /run/user/1000/gvfs/mtp?
[...]
It is an emulation layer. MTP does not support every operation a true filesystem does.
This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files
But 'This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage' is only accessible
in File Explorer, it's not part of the normal file system, nor
accessible as a Network Share, so you can't use normal copy or backup utilities. (Perhaps in Windows PowerShell one can 'program'/control File Explorer? No idea.)
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience >>> by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.
  The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup
app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as >>>> well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience >>>> by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the >>>> backup to another device using USB and so on.
  The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. >>> The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.
Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??
On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as >>>>> well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience >>>>> by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the >>>>> backup to another device using USB and so on.
  The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The >>>> Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. >>>> The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or >>>> USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.
Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??
On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-rest). I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into
the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it has got.
But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting
to a good time.
On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment.
For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect
a simple trick to work in such a case.
Paul
On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as >>>> well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough
experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the >>>> backup to another device using USB and so on.
  The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. >>> The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup
app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd'
commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.
Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??
On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other
methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough
experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to
transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.
   The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The >>>>> Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no
ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or >>>>> USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup
app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd'
commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.
Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??
On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC
DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-
rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into
the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the
computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it
has got.
But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks
like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting
to a good time.
On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment.
For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect
a simple trick to work in such a case.
   Paul
Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...
On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as >>>>>> well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience >>>>>> by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the >>>>>> backup to another device using USB and so on.
   The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The >>>>> Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. >>>>> The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or >>>>> USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.
Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??
On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC
DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-rest). >> I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into
the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it has got.
But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting
to a good time.
On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment.
For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect
a simple trick to work in such a case.
   Paul
Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...
On 2025-04-16 22:26, Alan wrote:
On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other
methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough
experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to
transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.
   The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The >>>>>> Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but
no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-
Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full
backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd'
commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations. >>>>
Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??
On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu
PPC
DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be
at- rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into
the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the
computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it
has got.
But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks
like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting
to a good time.
On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment.
For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect
a simple trick to work in such a case.
   Paul
Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system
of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...
Not on a phone.
On 2025-04-16 14:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-04-16 22:26, Alan wrote:
On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other
methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough
experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to
transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.
   The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup
ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but >>>>>>> no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi- >>>>>>> Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full
backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd'
commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux
installations.
Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac?? >>>>
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the
Ubuntu PPC
DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be
at- rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into >>>> the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on
the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it
has got.
But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks
like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting >>>> to a good time.
On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment. >>>> For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect >>>> a simple trick to work in such a case.
   Paul
Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system
of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...
Not on a phone.
You seem to be a little hard of reading:
"Is there a similar commandline command [] or Apple Mac??"
"On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to
transfer out the disk (which would be at- rest)."
But of those make direct reference to a Mac.
On Wed, 4/16/2025 4:26 PM, Alan wrote:So make a second boot drive for the Mac.
On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as >>>>>>> well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the >>>>>>> backup to another device using USB and so on.
   The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. >>>>>> The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or >>>>>> USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.
Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??
On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC >>> DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into
the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it has got.
But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting
to a good time.
On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment.
For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect
a simple trick to work in such a case.
   Paul
Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...
But not make a copy of the disk while it is "hot".
The MacG4 Quad Nostril does not have VSS and shadow copy for hot backups.
Alan wrote:
On 2025-04-16 14:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-04-16 22:26, Alan wrote:
On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other >>>>>>>>> methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough >>>>>>>>> experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to
transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.
   The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup >>>>>>>> ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but >>>>>>>> no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by
Wi- Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full
backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd'
commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux
installations.
Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac?? >>>>>
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the
Ubuntu PPC
DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be
at- rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into >>>>> the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on
the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface
it has got.
But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for
tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting >>>>> to a good time.
On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment. >>>>> For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not
expect
a simple trick to work in such a case.
   Paul
Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-
system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...
Not on a phone.
You seem to be a little hard of reading:
"Is there a similar commandline command [] or Apple Mac??"
"On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to
transfer out the disk (which would be at- rest)."
But of those make direct reference to a Mac.
Did you read this before you posted it? Most of what you've written
aren't even sentences.
On 2025-04-16 14:24, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 4:26 PM, Alan wrote:So make a second boot drive for the Mac.
On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.
    The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or >>>>>>> USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.
Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac?? >>>>
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC >>>> DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into >>>> the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it has got.
But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting >>>> to a good time.
On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment. >>>> For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect >>>> a simple trick to work in such a case.
    Paul
Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...
But not make a copy of the disk while it is "hot".
The MacG4 Quad Nostril does not have VSS and shadow copy for hot backups.
On Wed, 4/16/2025 9:52 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-04-16 14:24, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 4:26 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.
    The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or >>>>>>>> USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.
Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac?? >>>>>
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC >>>>> DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into >>>>> the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it has got.
But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting >>>>> to a good time.
On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment. >>>>> For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect >>>>> a simple trick to work in such a case.
    Paul
Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...
But not make a copy of the disk while it is "hot".
The MacG4 Quad Nostril does not have VSS and shadow copy for hot backups. >> So make a second boot drive for the Mac.
I stopped opening up the G4 after a while. It required sitting
on my kitchen floor and "cradling the scissor case" when opening it.
That's to avoid stressing the cables in it.
On Wed, 4/16/2025 9:52 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-04-16 14:24, Paul wrote:
This is one of the reasons, in the current computer room, *the* most popular computer, is the one with a flat door panel with a handle on it. I used to have
computer cases, where the silly drives used to slide into front mount
tray holes (it would take like ten minutes to change a drive),
but the machine with the nice door, the trays face the user
and are immediately accessible. I have "enjoyed the hell" out of the
two of those I own. The trays for the disks are steel, so you don't have
to worry about the competitor cases that use plastic trays. That's
the Antec Sonata case. It's amazing, what a few convenience features
makes to your opinion of a thing.
On 2025-04-16 22:15, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 9:52 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-04-16 14:24, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 4:26 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can >>>>>> gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC
On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:
Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:[...]
Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.
     The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.
That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?
Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.
Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac?? >>>>>>
DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into >>>>>> the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it has got.
But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting >>>>>> to a good time.
On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and >>>>>> you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment. >>>>>> For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect >>>>>> a simple trick to work in such a case.
     Paul
Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...
But not make a copy of the disk while it is "hot".
The MacG4 Quad Nostril does not have VSS and shadow copy for hot backups. >>> So make a second boot drive for the Mac.
I stopped opening up the G4 after a while. It required sitting
on my kitchen floor and "cradling the scissor case" when opening it.
That's to avoid stressing the cables in it.
And you've never heard of external drives?
We're talking about a special purpose boot drive you'd only use to do your dd backup.
On 2025-04-17 07:15, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 9:52 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-04-16 14:24, Paul wrote:
the computer rack to hold it.This is one of the reasons, in the current computer room, *the* most popular >> computer, is the one with a flat door panel with a handle on it. I used to have
computer cases, where the silly drives used to slide into front mount
tray holes (it would take like ten minutes to change a drive),
but the machine with the nice door, the trays face the user
and are immediately accessible. I have "enjoyed the hell" out of the
two of those I own. The trays for the disks are steel, so you don't have
to worry about the competitor cases that use plastic trays. That's
the Antec Sonata case. It's amazing, what a few convenience features
makes to your opinion of a thing.
I have the Antec P101. Way too big, I can not figure out the sizes when shopping on a web page like Amazon. Of course I can see the specs, but then I'm surprised when I actually have it on my hands. It is a pleasure to work inside, but I had to modify
On Thu, 4/17/2025 5:08 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:the computer rack to hold it.
On 2025-04-17 07:15, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 4/16/2025 9:52 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-04-16 14:24, Paul wrote:
This is one of the reasons, in the current computer room, *the* most popular
computer, is the one with a flat door panel with a handle on it. I used to have
computer cases, where the silly drives used to slide into front mount
tray holes (it would take like ten minutes to change a drive),
but the machine with the nice door, the trays face the user
and are immediately accessible. I have "enjoyed the hell" out of the
two of those I own. The trays for the disks are steel, so you don't have >>> to worry about the competitor cases that use plastic trays. That's
the Antec Sonata case. It's amazing, what a few convenience features
makes to your opinion of a thing.
I have the Antec P101. Way too big, I can not figure out the sizes when shopping on a web page like Amazon. Of course I can see the specs, but then I'm surprised when I actually have it on my hands. It is a pleasure to work inside, but I had to modify
Dimensions 527x232x506mm (DWH) EATX
20.7 9.1 19.9
That's about the same size as the one I got (Phanteks).
They don't have to get too large, before
they're hard to cool. I've blocked some
of the vents in mine, to try to get more
air velocity in other places, but it's
really a losing battle. It's got five fans
in it at the moment.
Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
On 15 Apr 2025 13:18:40 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote :
This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files
But 'This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage' is only accessible
in File Explorer, it's not part of the normal file system, nor
accessible as a Network Share, so you can't use normal copy or backup
utilities. (Perhaps in Windows PowerShell one can 'program'/control File >>> Explorer? No idea.)
I will agree with anyone who says anything logically sensible, where I
agree with Frank that there must be a DIY backup mechanism to Windows.
On the one topic of the paradoxical observation that both Frank Slootweg
and I have experienced of what can be "seen" by the PC vs the phone...
<https://i.postimg.cc/1zrmSmQc/davroot.jpg> Windows can see Android root! >>
I also have been surprised when the PC can see *far* more of the Android
file system than the (non rooted) Android device itself can see.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Zngy0SGT/filesys03.jpg> Look at /etc/resolv.conf
Sure, we all know ADB can back up the system /etc/hosts file but even
without ADB, I can read (and write) to far more of the Android file system >> from the PC than from the phone itself. From the Windows command line!
<https://i.postimg.cc/nzFmPTKt/filesys04.jpg> cmd line access to /etc
For example, when I mount the Android as a Windows drive letter, I can read >> "almost" the entire system (not all of it - but a lot more than you'd
expect). And I can write to some of the system filesys too I think.
<https://i.postimg.cc/PJF1ZZwn/filesys05.jpg> Look at the dnsproxy file
In summary, given my observation that when mounting an Android filesystem
as a drive letter on Windows that you can see far more than you'd expect to >> see, one possible backup mechanism might be to use a Windows copy script.
<https://i.postimg.cc/2SxM8V16/rootfilesystem.jpg> Windows root access!
Yes, an app on Android - in your case the WebDAV Server - can see part/most of the *root* file system, but it can't look in the
*app-private data areas*: Internal storage\Android\data, etc..
So, as your last screenshot shows, you can look into the com.<name> folders of some apps, but you will find that those are only *built-in*
apps, i.e. the ones which came with the phone.
You can't get into the Internal storage\Android\data\com.<name>
folders of *user-installed* apps.
So this method is no solution for Android full backup, because it
can't backup the most important part, the user data and settings.
On 15 Apr 2025 13:18:40 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote :
This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files
But 'This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage' is only accessible
in File Explorer, it's not part of the normal file system, nor
accessible as a Network Share, so you can't use normal copy or backup utilities. (Perhaps in Windows PowerShell one can 'program'/control File Explorer? No idea.)
I will agree with anyone who says anything logically sensible, where I
agree with Frank that there must be a DIY backup mechanism to Windows.
On the one topic of the paradoxical observation that both Frank Slootweg
and I have experienced of what can be "seen" by the PC vs the phone...
<https://i.postimg.cc/1zrmSmQc/davroot.jpg> Windows can see Android root!
I also have been surprised when the PC can see *far* more of the Android
file system than the (non rooted) Android device itself can see.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Zngy0SGT/filesys03.jpg> Look at /etc/resolv.conf
Sure, we all know ADB can back up the system /etc/hosts file but even
without ADB, I can read (and write) to far more of the Android file system from the PC than from the phone itself. From the Windows command line!
<https://i.postimg.cc/nzFmPTKt/filesys04.jpg> cmd line access to /etc
For example, when I mount the Android as a Windows drive letter, I can read "almost" the entire system (not all of it - but a lot more than you'd expect). And I can write to some of the system filesys too I think.
<https://i.postimg.cc/PJF1ZZwn/filesys05.jpg> Look at the dnsproxy file
In summary, given my observation that when mounting an Android filesystem
as a drive letter on Windows that you can see far more than you'd expect to see, one possible backup mechanism might be to use a Windows copy script.
<https://i.postimg.cc/2SxM8V16/rootfilesystem.jpg> Windows root access!
Yes, an app on Android - in your case the WebDAV Server - can see
part/most of the *root* file system, but it can't look in the
*app-private data areas*: Internal storage\Android\data, etc.
So, as your last screenshot shows, you can look into the com.<name>
folders of some apps, but you will find that those are only *built-in*
apps, i.e. the ones which came with the phone.
You can't get into the Internal storage\Android\data\com.<name>
folders of *user-installed* apps.
So this method is no solution for Android full backup, because it
can't backup the most important part, the user data and settings.
robocopy P:\ <destination> /E /COPYALL
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 508 |
| Nodes: | 16 (0 / 16) |
| Uptime: | 242:13:33 |
| Calls: | 9,986 |
| Calls today: | 4 |
| Files: | 13,836 |
| Messages: | 6,358,541 |
