• Re: Desktop Runtime ?

    From Newyana2@21:1/5 to casagiannoni@optonline.net on Wed Apr 16 15:33:17 2025
    On 4/16/2025 3:27 PM, casagiannoni@optonline.net wrote:
    Revo Uninstaller shows 2 items that differ somewhat. When I tried
    deleting one, somthing else reported that it was needed to run
    something and I had to reinstall. Really doesn't seem to matter, but
    what are these? New computer running Windows 11, I think.


    What are what two things?

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  • From casagiannoni@optonline.net@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 16 15:27:37 2025
    Revo Uninstaller shows 2 items that differ somewhat. When I tried
    deleting one, somthing else reported that it was needed to run
    something and I had to reinstall. Really doesn't seem to matter, but
    what are these? New computer running Windows 11, I think.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to casagiannoni@optonline.net on Wed Apr 16 17:03:58 2025
    On Wed, 4/16/2025 3:27 PM, casagiannoni@optonline.net wrote:
    Revo Uninstaller shows 2 items that differ somewhat. When I tried
    deleting one, somthing else reported that it was needed to run
    something and I had to reinstall. Really doesn't seem to matter, but
    what are these? New computer running Windows 11, I think.


    Could be CoPilot.App and M365-Office-CoPilot.App .

    Those are examples of Microsoft applications that "invited themselves in".
    They can show up after the W11 OS is installed.

    This is not a guaranteed and for sure answer, it could be just
    about anything.

    Use the Snippingtool and take pictures of your screen, if you're
    doing something you need to refer to later. I keep the Snippingtool
    pinned to the Task Bar, so I won't have to use Start : Run to get to it.

    I take a lot of screenshots. And the Snippingtool has a neat
    feature on it - it can do OCR of text. Using a rectangular snip
    of a part of the screen, the Snippingtool has a "text actions" icon
    on the right side of the six-or-so icons after you make a snip.
    And that one does OCR, and you can click the "copy" button after
    it runs, and then go to Notepad and paste the text in the buffer.
    This allows you to copy text on webpages where the text-copy is disabled.

    Paul

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  • From casagiannoni@optonline.net@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 16 18:55:10 2025
    On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 15:33:17 -0400, Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam>
    wrote:

    On 4/16/2025 3:27 PM, casagiannoni@optonline.net wrote:
    Revo Uninstaller shows 2 items that differ somewhat. When I tried
    deleting one, somthing else reported that it was needed to run
    something and I had to reinstall. Really doesn't seem to matter, but
    what are these? New computer running Windows 11, I think.


    What are what two things?

    Microsoft Windows Desktop Runtimr 6.0.36 (x64)
    Size 210.91 MB
    Version 6.0.36.34217

    Microsoft Windows Desktop Runtimr 8.0.15 (x64)
    Size 217.09 MB
    Version 8.0.15.34718

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  • From casagiannoni@optonline.net@21:1/5 to casagiannoni@optonline.net on Wed Apr 16 19:00:56 2025
    On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 18:55:10 -0400, casagiannoni@optonline.net wrote:

    On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 15:33:17 -0400, Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam>
    wrote:

    On 4/16/2025 3:27 PM, casagiannoni@optonline.net wrote:
    Revo Uninstaller shows 2 items that differ somewhat. When I tried
    deleting one, somthing else reported that it was needed to run
    something and I had to reinstall. Really doesn't seem to matter, but
    what are these? New computer running Windows 11, I think.


    What are what two things?

    Microsoft Windows Desktop Runtimr 6.0.36 (x64)
    Size 210.91 MB
    Version 6.0.36.34217

    Microsoft Windows Desktop Runtimr 8.0.15 (x64)
    Size 217.09 MB
    Version 8.0.15.34718

    ( both should be Runtime )

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  • From casagiannoni@optonline.net@21:1/5 to casagiannoni@optonline.net on Wed Apr 16 18:58:10 2025
    On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 18:55:10 -0400, casagiannoni@optonline.net wrote:

    On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 15:33:17 -0400, Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam>
    wrote:

    On 4/16/2025 3:27 PM, casagiannoni@optonline.net wrote:
    Revo Uninstaller shows 2 items that differ somewhat. When I tried
    deleting one, somthing else reported that it was needed to run
    something and I had to reinstall. Really doesn't seem to matter, but
    what are these? New computer running Windows 11, I think.


    What are what two things?

    Microsoft Windows Desktop Runtimr 6.0.36 (x64)
    Size 210.91 MB
    Version 6.0.36.34217

    Microsoft Windows Desktop Runtimr 8.0.15 (x64)
    Size 217.09 MB
    Version 8.0.15.34718

    1st line should be Runtime

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  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to casagiannoni@optonline.net on Wed Apr 16 19:55:22 2025
    On 4/16/2025 6:55 PM, casagiannoni@optonline.net wrote:

    What are what two things?

    Microsoft Windows Desktop Runtimr 6.0.36 (x64)
    Size 210.91 MB
    Version 6.0.36.34217

    Microsoft Windows Desktop Runtimr 8.0.15 (x64)
    Size 217.09 MB
    Version 8.0.15.34718


    That's interesting. I never noticed it before. I also have both.
    But I have 7 and 8. They seem to be the .Net runtimes
    7 and 8. I don't know why they call it a desktop runtime,
    or even a runtime. They used to call it a framework. Apparently
    it's desktop in the sense of being for "desktop software". Maybe
    MS did that to cover the embarassing fact that .Net was
    never designed for, and has never been well suited to, Desktop
    software. Like Java, it's slow, bloated, JIT compiled, optimized
    for RAD development of serverside applets.

    I just uninstalled v. 7 with no apparent
    ill effects. Like any .Net runtime, whether you need it will depend
    on what software you use. I never knowingly use .Net software,
    but I may have tried some program that installed these without
    asking.

    So, long story short, you shouldn't need them, but it's possible
    that you're using .Net software developed with those version
    numbers, so it would break if you remove the runtime. These
    .Net libraries and ASP Core could also be connected with the Metro
    applets, though Metro system settings still works fine for me
    with #7 gone.

    Looking in Windows\Insytaller I see that I have nearly 60 MB
    in two MSI files that are both the 8.0.3 runtime installers, but
    have slightly different dates and sizes. I'm repeatedly astonished
    at how much bloated crap MS have stashed in Win10/11.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 17 00:24:25 2025
    On Wed, 4/16/2025 7:55 PM, Newyana2 wrote:
    On 4/16/2025 6:55 PM, casagiannoni@optonline.net wrote:

    What are what two things?

    Microsoft Windows Desktop Runtimr 6.0.36 (x64)
    Size 210.91 MB
    Version 6.0.36.34217

    Microsoft Windows Desktop Runtimr 8.0.15 (x64)
    Size 217.09 MB
    Version 8.0.15.34718


      That's interesting. I never noticed it before. I also have both.
    But I have 7 and 8. They seem to be the .Net runtimes
    7 and 8. I don't know why they call it a desktop runtime,
    or even a runtime. They used to call it a framework. Apparently
    it's desktop in the sense of being for "desktop software". Maybe
    MS did that to cover the embarassing fact that .Net was
    never designed for, and has never been well suited to, Desktop
    software. Like Java, it's slow, bloated, JIT compiled, optimized
    for RAD development of serverside applets.

        I just uninstalled v. 7 with no apparent
    ill effects. Like any .Net runtime, whether you need it will depend
    on what software you use. I never knowingly use .Net software,
    but I may have tried some program that installed these without
    asking.

     So, long story short, you shouldn't need them, but it's possible
    that you're using .Net software developed with those version
    numbers, so it would break if you remove the runtime. These
    .Net libraries and ASP Core could also be connected with the Metro
    applets, though Metro system settings still works fine for me
    with #7 gone.

    Looking in Windows\Insytaller I see that I have nearly 60 MB
    in two MSI files that are both the 8.0.3 runtime installers, but
    have slightly different dates and sizes. I'm repeatedly astonished
    at how much bloated crap MS have stashed in Win10/11.

    I have no idea what would trigger this. The maintenance the
    Windows Update does, is for V4 mostly. The only way these might be
    managed, is by bunging in a blob every once in a while (like
    a forklift install), rather than being a patch. And if that is
    the case, why don't these show in Programs and Features control panel ?

    https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet/6.0

    https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet/8.0

    You would expect a thing like Paint.NET to be associated with
    crazy stuff like this. And some applications with exotic runtime
    requirements, trigger the download of the essential package
    their own selves. Inviting the items in.

    I tried to look up the "what versions am I running" issue, and
    it's still handled in the same cack-handed way it always was. But,
    without Aaron Stebner ("netfx_setupverifier.exe") to help us.
    Support for that stopped around 2018 or so.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to Paul on Thu Apr 17 08:34:10 2025
    On 4/17/2025 12:24 AM, Paul wrote:

    I have no idea what would trigger this. The maintenance the
    Windows Update does, is for V4 mostly. The only way these might be
    managed, is by bunging in a blob every once in a while (like
    a forklift install), rather than being a patch. And if that is
    the case, why don't these show in Programs and Features control panel ?

    https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet/6.0

    https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet/8.0

    You would expect a thing like Paint.NET to be associated with
    crazy stuff like this. And some applications with exotic runtime requirements, trigger the download of the essential package
    their own selves. Inviting the items in.

    I tried to look up the "what versions am I running" issue, and
    it's still handled in the same cack-handed way it always was. But,
    without Aaron Stebner ("netfx_setupverifier.exe") to help us.
    Support for that stopped around 2018 or so.


    The #8 that I have remaining has an install date of 5/10/24.
    Both were listed under installed programs. 5/24 is after I
    stopped allowing Microsoft updates. If I installed a program
    that tried to go online to download a Framework then I
    would have stopped it via firewall and cancelled the installation.
    So that seems to leave some kind of software that packed the
    runtime into an installer.

    What might do that? There is one thing that fits the bill. I
    installed Intel Arc display controller on the same day. It's incredibly bloated. 820 MB for a ridiculously theatrical black Metro window
    with "special effects", all just to control hue, saturation and
    brightness, which don't show up in the Win10 display settings.
    (Separate from the Intel display driver, which is 720 MB
    compressed!) Could Win10/11 graphics settings be any worse
    than they are? They range across several different nested
    windows, yet don't provide anywhere near the number of Windows
    options or display driver adjustments that older Windows provided
    all from one handy, well designed applet.

    OK, so let's try uninstalling #8 runtime.... Intel Arc still
    works. Though now I'm wondering why I haven't uninstalled
    that. Will I ever need to adjust hue and brightness again?
    Do I really want to waste a GB of space for that? Is Intel
    secretly making all the SSDs and trying to fill them up so
    they can sell more? ... I can only guess that Intel threw in
    this crap as a favor to Microsoft.

    I also tried out several incredibly bloated text editors back
    then, like Atom and Sublime. I had decided to make my own
    improved version of Notepad and first went out to see whether
    it already existed. (I was surprised to find lots of useless and
    overdesigned editors that gave me all sorts of options for
    colors and panels, but shoehorned in far too much unnecessary
    stuff.) The editors were bloated enough to have snuck in a
    .Net runtime, but the dates don't correspond.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 17 11:53:12 2025
    On Thu, 4/17/2025 8:34 AM, Newyana2 wrote:
    On 4/17/2025 12:24 AM, Paul wrote:

    I have no idea what would trigger this. The maintenance the
    Windows Update does, is for V4 mostly. The only way these might be
    managed, is by bunging in a blob every once in a while (like
    a forklift install), rather than being a patch. And if that is
    the case, why don't these show in Programs and Features control panel ?

    https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet/6.0

    https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet/8.0

    You would expect a thing like Paint.NET to be associated with
    crazy stuff like this. And some applications with exotic runtime
    requirements, trigger the download of the essential package
    their own selves. Inviting the items in.

    I tried to look up the "what versions am I running" issue, and
    it's still handled in the same cack-handed way it always was. But,
    without Aaron Stebner ("netfx_setupverifier.exe") to help us.
    Support for that stopped around 2018 or so.


       The #8 that I have remaining has an install date of 5/10/24.
    Both were listed under installed programs. 5/24 is after I
    stopped allowing Microsoft updates. If I installed a program
    that tried to go online to download a Framework then I
    would have stopped it via firewall and cancelled the installation.
    So that seems to leave some kind of software that packed the
    runtime into an installer.

      What might do that? There is one thing that fits the bill. I
    installed Intel Arc display controller on the same day. It's incredibly bloated. 820 MB for a ridiculously theatrical black Metro window
    with "special effects", all just to control hue, saturation and
    brightness, which don't show up in the Win10 display settings.
    (Separate from the Intel display driver, which is 720 MB
    compressed!) Could Win10/11 graphics settings be any worse
    than they are? They range across several different nested
    windows, yet don't provide anywhere near the number of Windows
    options or display driver adjustments that older Windows provided
    all from one handy, well designed applet.

       OK, so let's try uninstalling #8 runtime.... Intel Arc still
    works. Though now I'm wondering why I haven't uninstalled
    that. Will I ever need to adjust hue and brightness again?
    Do I really want to waste a GB of space for that? Is Intel
    secretly making all the SSDs and trying to fill them up so
    they can sell more? ... I can only guess that Intel threw in
    this crap as a favor to Microsoft.

      I also tried out several incredibly bloated text editors back
    then, like Atom and Sublime. I had decided to make my own
    improved version of Notepad and first went out to see whether
    it already existed. (I was surprised to find lots of useless and
    overdesigned editors that gave me all sorts of options for
    colors and panels, but shoehorned in far too much unnecessary
    stuff.) The editors were bloated enough to have snuck in a
    .Net runtime, but the dates don't correspond.

    I don't know what Microsoft is trying to do with .NET.
    I thought that ship had mostly sunk :-)

    And a gigabyte of space for a utility ? Does it
    have a hidden game in it with textures or something ?

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to Paul on Thu Apr 17 13:55:59 2025
    On 4/17/2025 11:53 AM, Paul wrote:
    On Thu, 4/17/2025 8:34 AM, Newyana2 wrote:
    On 4/17/2025 12:24 AM, Paul wrote:

    I have no idea what would trigger this. The maintenance the
    Windows Update does, is for V4 mostly. The only way these might be
    managed, is by bunging in a blob every once in a while (like
    a forklift install), rather than being a patch. And if that is
    the case, why don't these show in Programs and Features control panel ?

    https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet/6.0

    https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet/8.0

    You would expect a thing like Paint.NET to be associated with
    crazy stuff like this. And some applications with exotic runtime
    requirements, trigger the download of the essential package
    their own selves. Inviting the items in.

    I tried to look up the "what versions am I running" issue, and
    it's still handled in the same cack-handed way it always was. But,
    without Aaron Stebner ("netfx_setupverifier.exe") to help us.
    Support for that stopped around 2018 or so.


       The #8 that I have remaining has an install date of 5/10/24.
    Both were listed under installed programs. 5/24 is after I
    stopped allowing Microsoft updates. If I installed a program
    that tried to go online to download a Framework then I
    would have stopped it via firewall and cancelled the installation.
    So that seems to leave some kind of software that packed the
    runtime into an installer.

      What might do that? There is one thing that fits the bill. I
    installed Intel Arc display controller on the same day. It's incredibly
    bloated. 820 MB for a ridiculously theatrical black Metro window
    with "special effects", all just to control hue, saturation and
    brightness, which don't show up in the Win10 display settings.
    (Separate from the Intel display driver, which is 720 MB
    compressed!) Could Win10/11 graphics settings be any worse
    than they are? They range across several different nested
    windows, yet don't provide anywhere near the number of Windows
    options or display driver adjustments that older Windows provided
    all from one handy, well designed applet.

       OK, so let's try uninstalling #8 runtime.... Intel Arc still
    works. Though now I'm wondering why I haven't uninstalled
    that. Will I ever need to adjust hue and brightness again?
    Do I really want to waste a GB of space for that? Is Intel
    secretly making all the SSDs and trying to fill them up so
    they can sell more? ... I can only guess that Intel threw in
    this crap as a favor to Microsoft.

      I also tried out several incredibly bloated text editors back
    then, like Atom and Sublime. I had decided to make my own
    improved version of Notepad and first went out to see whether
    it already existed. (I was surprised to find lots of useless and
    overdesigned editors that gave me all sorts of options for
    colors and panels, but shoehorned in far too much unnecessary
    stuff.) The editors were bloated enough to have snuck in a
    .Net runtime, but the dates don't correspond.

    I don't know what Microsoft is trying to do with .NET.
    I thought that ship had mostly sunk :-)

    And a gigabyte of space for a utility ? Does it
    have a hidden game in it with textures or something ?


    Funny you should ask. The biggest file in the Arc folder is
    211 MB. Libcef.dll. Chromium Embedded Framework DLL. It
    sounds like the silly special effects of the Arc GUI may actually
    be a webpage in a Chromium or Edge web browser control.
    The whole thing uses about 300MB RAM when running.

    I don't know what the inside story is with .Net. I haven't really
    kept up. As I understand it there's basic C++ in VS. There's also
    VB.net and C#. Then there's the WinRT/Metro/Modern/UWP
    trinket app development, which can be done in several languages.
    So there are various high-level wrapper tools, plus C++. The latest
    VS also advertises Copilot.

    Originally .Net was supposed to be for web services, to compete
    with Java. More recently they seem to be trying to get those
    programmers to make apps. .Net was never really for desktop
    software. My sense is that the people doing it for work are much
    like Java developers: serverside corporate operations.

    Actually I'm curious. What kind of work is there for app developers
    these days? Maybe computer-based apps for companies like
    banks or AirBnB? I don't know.

    VB6 is still alive and well, but not if you ask MS. They're pushing
    so hard to set up WaaS with AI spyware and forced ID, I don't
    imagine that MS see much of any future for 3rd-party developers
    except for Windows Store apps. I don't have a membership there,
    so I don't even know what it looks like. I have no idea what kind
    of apps are available.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to ...winston on Sat Apr 19 07:29:44 2025
    On 4/19/2025 5:11 AM, ...winston wrote:

    It's not necessarily Paint.NET

    On this Win10 Pro 22H2 device, additional runtimes are Visual C++
    related. No items specifically named 'Dekstop Runtime' in any location:

    Not VC++ runtimes. https://www.urtech.ca/2024/01/solved-what-is-microsoft-windows-desktop-runtime/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to ...winston on Sat Apr 19 12:11:35 2025
    On 4/19/2025 11:10 AM, ...winston wrote:

    If Desktop Runtime is present, it's not necessarily from or included in Windows 10.
     - Not included in Windows 10 installer
     - Not included in Windows 10 Updates(LCU, Safe OS, WinRE)
     - Not included in .NET updates unless the desktop runtime is present,
    but only updating  files without version changes.


    Right. It's not part of any of that. And it's not related
    to the numerous VC runtimes. What I'm not clear about is
    how it relates to the .Net framworks, which are typically
    called frameworks and have their own versioning.

    As near as I can tell, "framework" is now used to refer only to pre-installed .Net support. So when programs would previously
    download a .Net framework, they now download a "Windows
    Desktop Runtime".

    It seems to be a kind of sleight of hand, trying to claim
    that Desktop software is .Net software, while also trying
    to avoid the use of ".Net". In other words, "Don't think this
    is just more bloated Java clone crap that you shouldn't
    need. It's really what Windows needs to run your software.
    Really."

    Interestingly, I've uninstalled the 6 and 8 runtimes, as well as
    the ASP.Net package -- which I definitely shouldn't need. So
    far I can't find anything that it's broken. The runtimes seem
    to have been installed with the Intel Arc display applet, but
    that still works.

    I suppose it's possible that Intel, being so thoroughly in
    bed with Microsoft, puts those runtimes into their downloads
    as a favor to MS, so that .Net developers don't have to
    sneak out and try to get them.
    I never let software call home or even call out
    (except things like Firefox or TBird) so nothing could have
    snuck out to get these runtimes. They would have had to
    have been part of a large installer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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