I was transferring a folder, so I copied it to my HD plugged into my BT router. There were 1,250 files in the source, but about 60 failed to
copy because "the properties don't allow". So I plugged the drive
directly into USB on the computer, and A OK for all.
I can't help but wonder what stood in the way of the failed copies. Most likely something in the firmware of the router, but what?
I can't help but wonder what stood in the way of the failed copies.
I was transferring a folder, so I copied it to my HD plugged into my BT router. There were 1,250 files in the source, but about 60 failed to copy because "the properties don't allow". So I plugged the drive directly into USB on the computer, and A OKfor all.
I can't help but wonder what stood in the way of the failed copies. Most likely something in the firmware of the router, but what?
Ed
On Thu, 5/8/2025 9:22 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:for all.
I was transferring a folder, so I copied it to my HD plugged into my BT router. There were 1,250 files in the source, but about 60 failed to copy because "the properties don't allow". So I plugged the drive directly into USB on the computer, and A OK
I can't help but wonder what stood in the way of the failed copies. Most likely something in the firmware of the router, but what?
Ed
Now, you're an experienced experimenter.
Does the router insist on a limited set of file systems ?
What do you know about FAT32 ? It does not have a permissions model.
It has a 4GB max file size limitation. If you send a lot of 7GB ISO
files, then FAT32 would not be all that nice for the job.
There is EXFAT (router may not support it).
NTFS allows larger files, larger partitions, and it also has
a permissions model. (One of the reasons we like Linux, is
it does not support NTFS permissions, and I can overwrite
Windows files from Linux that have prickly permissions on them.
That's how I get the WinRE.wim file, into the Recovery partition.
Linux.
If the router controls the content on the HDD (opaque and
functions as a NAS), it may be using EXT3 or EXT4.
Those support permissions. Since you manually loaded the HDD
your own self, over USB, we know it's not that case.
For file names, Windows has more restrictions on punctuation
than Linux. Generally, as an experienced experimenter,
you use a carefully controlled subset of "what is allowed",
for maximum compatibility while working in the computer room.
I allow hyphens, periods, not so many underscores and
NO SPACES in file names.
I wish I had not made this file name so stupidly.txt # Some operations may require quotes
In a bygone era, my Apple computer had a different filename
length limit than the PC. I would copy source trees from
one machine to another, and one of the files would have a
character lopped off it. and it could take me a while to
figure out which file that was and so on. Those
limits are mostly not interfering today -- only MP3 files
regularly cause grief because of their tagging scheme
and length for the file name.
Even putting things into a ZIP or a TAR file before
transfer is not a panacea. I've had my share of "symbolic link failures"
when using containers for files. It's not like there is a
convenient magic bullet for this. Sure, you can do an MRIMG
of an entire hard drive and send that, and that WILL get
through :-) But that's a bit big as files go. I understand
the paid version of Macrium supports file-by-file backups,
so it can do the equivalent of a ZIP, and should be more
transparent than your average container. Since i have
the Macrium Free, I don't have that to test it.
Paul
Building on Paul's response: As you can plug the HDD into the USB of
your computer, what does Properties -> 'General' tab say about the
'File system:' type which is on the HDD?
As to the general issue: Your router plus HDD probably acts as a
mini-NAS, with - as other have mentioned - its own OS (probably Linux)
and might have (Samba?) file system limitations, which Windows doesn't
have.
I was transferring a folder, so I copied it to my HD plugged into my BT router. There were 1,250 files in the source, but about 60 failed to
copy because "the properties don't allow". So I plugged the drive
directly into USB on the computer, and A OK for all.
I can't help but wonder what stood in the way of the failed copies. Most likely something in the firmware of the router, but what?
Frank Slootweg wrote:
  Building on Paul's response: As you can plug the HDD into the USB of
your computer, what does Properties -> 'General' tab say about the
'File system:' type which is on the HDD?
  As to the general issue: Your router plus HDD probably acts as a
mini-NAS, with - as other have mentioned - its own OS (probably Linux)
and might have (Samba?) file system limitations, which Windows doesn't
have.
The General tab says Network Drive, NTFS. And that's about it; much less
info than on local HDs.
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Building on Paul's response: As you can plug the HDD into the USB of your computer, what does Properties -> 'General' tab say about the
'File system:' type which is on the HDD?
As to the general issue: Your router plus HDD probably acts as a mini-NAS, with - as other have mentioned - its own OS (probably Linux)
and might have (Samba?) file system limitations, which Windows doesn't have.
The General tab says Network Drive, NTFS. And that's about it; much less
info than on local HDs.
It's accessible from everywhere; Win10, Win11, iOS, android, Apple TV;
all devices on the network.
Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Building on Paul's response: As you can plug the HDD into the USB of >>> your computer, what does Properties -> 'General' tab say about the
'File system:' type which is on the HDD?
As to the general issue: Your router plus HDD probably acts as a
mini-NAS, with - as other have mentioned - its own OS (probably Linux)
and might have (Samba?) file system limitations, which Windows doesn't
have.
The General tab says Network Drive, NTFS. And that's about it; much less
info than on local HDs.
It's accessible from everywhere; Win10, Win11, iOS, android, Apple TV;
all devices on the network.
No, I mean what does it says when the HDD (which is *normally*
connected to the router) is connected directly to a USB port of the *computer*? That can't (well, shouldn't) be 'Network Drive', but 'Type:
Local Disk' and for that *local* disk, we want to know the 'File
system:' type.
So we want to now the *real* 'File system:' type of the HDD, not the
file system as *emulated* by the mini-NAS of your router (which, from
your response, seems to be NTFS).
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-05-08 22:03, Ed Cryer wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
  Building on Paul's response: As you can plug the HDD into the USB of >>>> your computer, what does Properties -> 'General' tab say about the
'File system:' type which is on the HDD?
  As to the general issue: Your router plus HDD probably acts as a
mini-NAS, with - as other have mentioned - its own OS (probably Linux) >>>> and might have (Samba?) file system limitations, which Windows doesn't >>>> have.
The General tab says Network Drive, NTFS. And that's about it; much
less info than on local HDs.
Network Drive would be NFS, not NTFS.
It would have Linux permissions imposed on a FAT disk, thus both set
of limitations.
If it truly is NTFS, that means "New Technology File System".
Well, it says NTFS; just as when I plug the HD into USB socket.
The full message is "Are you sure you want to copy this file without its properties?
The file has properties that can't be copied to the new location".
I know from googling that this scenario usually means that one is
copying from NTFS to Fat32, and that you can even go ahead and copy
minus the properties.
Some incompatibility between Win10 and the BT router?
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-05-08 22:03, Ed Cryer wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Building on Paul's response: As you can plug the HDD into the USB of >>> your computer, what does Properties -> 'General' tab say about the
'File system:' type which is on the HDD?
As to the general issue: Your router plus HDD probably acts as a
mini-NAS, with - as other have mentioned - its own OS (probably Linux) >>> and might have (Samba?) file system limitations, which Windows doesn't >>> have.
The General tab says Network Drive, NTFS. And that's about it; much
less info than on local HDs.
Network Drive would be NFS, not NTFS.
It would have Linux permissions imposed on a FAT disk, thus both set of limitations.
If it truly is NTFS, that means "New Technology File System".
Well, it says NTFS; just as when I plug the HD into USB socket.
The full message is "Are you sure you want to copy this file without its properties?
The file has properties that can't be copied to the new location".
I know from googling that this scenario usually means that one is
copying from NTFS to Fat32, and that you can even go ahead and copy
minus the properties.
Some incompatibility between Win10 and the BT router?
On 2025-05-08 22:03, Ed Cryer wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Building on Paul's response: As you can plug the HDD into the USB of
your computer, what does Properties -> 'General' tab say about the
'File system:' type which is on the HDD?
As to the general issue: Your router plus HDD probably acts as a
mini-NAS, with - as other have mentioned - its own OS (probably Linux)
and might have (Samba?) file system limitations, which Windows doesn't
have.
The General tab says Network Drive, NTFS. And that's about it; much less info than on local HDs.
Network Drive would be NFS, not NTFS.
It would have Linux permissions imposed on a FAT disk, thus both set of limitations.
If it truly is NTFS, that means "New Technology File System".
I was transferring a folder, so I copied it to my HD plugged into my BT router. There were 1,250 files in the source, but about 60 failed to
copy because "the properties don't allow". So I plugged the drive
directly into USB on the computer, and A OK for all.
I can't help but wonder what stood in the way of the failed copies. Most likely something in the firmware of the router, but what?
Ed
On 08/05/2025 14:22, Ed Cryer wrote:
I was transferring a folder, so I copied it to my HD plugged into my BT
router. There were 1,250 files in the source, but about 60 failed to
copy because "the properties don't allow". So I plugged the drive
directly into USB on the computer, and A OK for all.
I can't help but wonder what stood in the way of the failed copies. Most
likely something in the firmware of the router, but what?
Ed
What was the size of the HD?
I suspect there is not enough power in your router's usb port to handle
the HD. You need to connect via a USB hub with dedicated power supply
such as this one:
<https://www.amazon.co.uk/Powered-RSHTECH-Aluminum-4-port-Individual-Black/dp/B08ZKSK6MB>
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-05-08 22:03, Ed Cryer wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
  Building on Paul's response: As you can plug the HDD into the USB of >>>> your computer, what does Properties -> 'General' tab say about the
'File system:' type which is on the HDD?
  As to the general issue: Your router plus HDD probably acts as a >>>> mini-NAS, with - as other have mentioned - its own OS (probably Linux) >>>> and might have (Samba?) file system limitations, which Windows doesn't >>>> have.
The General tab says Network Drive, NTFS. And that's about it; much less >>> info than on local HDs.
Network Drive would be NFS, not NTFS.
No, a (Windows) Network Drive, i.e. a drive letter mapped to a Network Share, will say 'File system: NTFS', also if the Network Drive is mapped
to a Network Share on a NAS. At least that's the case for my Synology
DS115j NAS.
It would have Linux permissions imposed on a FAT disk, thus both set of
limitations.
If it truly is NTFS, that means "New Technology File System".
For a real NAS, the underlying filesystem is normally not NTFS and the
NAS emulates an NTFS filesystem for its SMB shares.
What Ed's mini-NAS does and doesn't do is anyone's guess, but the underlying file system seems to be NTFS, because that is what it says if
he connects the HDD directly to his computer.
It is very possible that the router is running inside a variant of
Linux. Have you ever seen any embedded machine running Windows? FreeDos
might be a possibility, but I have not seen it. Some brands may have
their own firmware, but those have limited features, or are very
expensive. So it is very possible they run Linux inside, some openly,
some in hiding or camouflage.
And to offer a disk share on the network, Linux can use Samba or NFS.
That means that they can not copy all the Windows attributes of a file.
Carlos E.R. wrote:features, or are very expensive. So it is very possible they run Linux inside, some openly, some in hiding or camouflage.
It is very possible that the router is running inside a variant of Linux. Have you ever seen any embedded machine running Windows? FreeDos might be a possibility, but I have not seen it. Some brands may have their own firmware, but those have limited
And to offer a disk share on the network, Linux can use Samba or NFS. That means that they can not copy all the Windows attributes of a file.
This from BT.
"The BT Smart Hub 2 does not use a traditional operating system like Windows or Linux. Instead, it utilizes a proprietary firmware designed specifically for its functionality as a router and modem."
Although, that read and fully imbibed, I'd bet they cobbled their "proprietary firmware" from Linux or FreeDOS.
Ed
Ed,
I can't help but wonder what stood in the way of the failed copies.
The router most likely runs an embedded form of Linux, with its own filesystem and its attributes and permissions. Whenever a file from a Windows environment is copied to Linux a translation needs to be applied.
My guess is that a certain combination of Windows file attributes could not be translated - perhaps related to permissions, to protect the owner of the files.--
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
The router most likely runs an embedded form of Linux, with its own
filesystem and its attributes and permissions. Whenever a file from a
Windows environment is copied to Linux a translation needs to be
applied.
I'm guessing you mean for a Windows EXE file to run under Linux some translation needs to be applied!!
But, a Windows Data file can still be a Linux Data file.
Linux can 'see/read' Windows partitions but Windows can't 'see/read' Linux partitions.
Daniel70,
The router most likely runs an embedded form of Linux, with its own
filesystem and its attributes and permissions. Whenever a file from a
Windows environment is copied to Linux a translation needs to be
applied.
I'm guessing you mean for a Windows EXE file to run under Linux some
translation needs to be applied!!
No. I said attributes* and permissions**, and that is what I ment.
* read-only, archived, etc.
** who owns the file, who is permitted to read/write/execute it.
But, a Windows Data file can still be a Linux Data file.
Yep. But also an executable on one OS effectivily becomes a data file on
the other OS. .... unless the other OS implements a translation layer (a sub-OS, like the Linux layer Windows is currently experimenting with, or
Wine on Linux)
Linux can 'see/read' Windows partitions but Windows can't 'see/read' Linux >> partitions.
Thats because Linux can work with more filesystems than Windows can. Not surprising, as Linux is an open source OS (everyone can write for it), while Windows is pretty-much closed.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
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