On Sun, 08 Jun 2025 23:08:54 +0000, DHL wrote :
Google, whose Android operating system is the only major rival to
Apple's iOS, has been barreling ahead with new AI tools and services.
Nobody on the Apple newsgroups can find more than one thing Apple has innovated in the past decade so it's not surprising what is surmised.
Apple, like big tobacco and big beer & soda is a MARKETING company alone.
Their iOS devices are nothing but dumb terminals which do almost nothing without logging into the Apple Cupertino mainframe matrix servers.
Google, whose Android operating system is the only major rival to
Apple's iOS, has been barreling ahead with new AI tools and services.
Apple, like big tobacco and big beer & soda is a MARKETING company alone.
Their iOS devices are nothing but dumb terminals which do almost nothing
without logging into the Apple Cupertino mainframe matrix servers.
This remains utterly false.
Apple, like big tobacco and big beer & soda is a MARKETING company alone. >>>
Their iOS devices are nothing but dumb terminals which do almost nothing >>> without logging into the Apple Cupertino mainframe matrix servers.
This remains utterly false.
Not utterly, but there's a large component of truth in it -
not just Apple,
but all fobile moans (the ones that can run apps, anyway):
a significant number of app.s _are_ purely, or mainly, just front-ends to some remote service: they basically won't do anything without connecting
to an online resource, i. e. they need a permanently-on and permanently-connected data connection.
For example, the sort that
identifies a flower, tree, or other plant you come across - they don't
really do that in the 'phone.
This fact is pretty poorly presented -
certainly in the UK, I suspect everywhere - to the expect that even
techy people don't realise it.
There _are_ some app.s that work entirely in the 'phone - for example,
the ones that show you what wifi networks are within range. But I
suspect they're mainly the exception.
On 2025/6/9 1:50:39, Alan wrote:
[]
Apple, like big tobacco and big beer & soda is a MARKETING company
alone.
Their iOS devices are nothing but dumb terminals which do almost nothing >>> without logging into the Apple Cupertino mainframe matrix servers.
This remains utterly false.
Not utterly, but there's a large component of truth in it - not just
Apple, but all fobile moans (the ones that can run apps, anyway): a significant number of app.s _are_ purely, or mainly, just front-ends to
some remote service: they basically won't do anything without connecting
to an online resource, i. e. they need a permanently-on and permanently- connected data connection. For example, the sort that identifies a
flower, tree, or other plant you come across - they don't really do that
in the 'phone. This fact is pretty poorly presented - certainly in the
UK, I suspect everywhere - to the expect that even techy people don't
realise it.
There _are_ some app.s that work entirely in the 'phone - for example,
the ones that show you what wifi networks are within range. But I
suspect they're mainly the exception.
On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 11:03:56 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote :[]
You were on Usenet a lot prior - but you (seemingly) haven't posted much lately, so it's good to see you back active on the Internet in Usenet.
not just Apple,
No. It's just Apple. And even then, it's only iOS since their macOS doesn't (apparently) require the Apple ID to perform basic feats. Only iOS does.
If people do not understand that the iOS device is designed as a dumb terminal, then people simply have no understanding of how iOS works.
but all fobile moans (the ones that can run apps, anyway):
No John. Only Apple. And only iOS. You don't understand how iOS works.
It's not the hardware. The hardware can do "stuff" that mobile devices do.
While this is certainly true, what people need to understand if they
profess to understand how iOS is different from all other common consumer operating systems, is that Apple *designed* iOS to be a dumb terminal.
That needs to be repeated because most people have no idea how operating
iOS cannot do that.You do love pointing that out.> Remember that John.
It's not the hardware that makes iOS devices into a dumb terminal.Don't you.>
It's Apple's iOS strategy that makes all iOS devices into a dumb terminal.
All iOS can do is run the native apps that come with the device if you do
not put an Apple Account on that iOS device - and - most people don't
realize what I'm going to say - even those native apps will soon die.
You were on Usenet a lot prior - but you (seemingly) haven't posted much
lately, so it's good to see you back active on the Internet in Usenet.
Yes, I'm baaack (-:[]
not just Apple,
No. It's just Apple. And even then, it's only iOS since their macOS doesn't >> (apparently) require the Apple ID to perform basic feats. Only iOS does.
You're letting your hatred of iOS (however justified) blind you
to what
I said - which is that a lot of (most, I'm pretty sure) people think
their 'phone is doing what the app makes it seem to be doing -
regardless of whether Android or iOS.
Take the example I gave -
flower/plant/tree identification: I'd be surprised if most such app.s actually have the picture analysis software, and the database, _in the 'phone_.
Your bonnet bee seems to be about which OSs let you _install_ app.s; you
may be right there, but that's not what I was saying.>
If people do not understand that the iOS device is designed as a dumb
terminal, then people simply have no understanding of how iOS works.
but all fobile moans (the ones that can run apps, anyway):
No John. Only Apple. And only iOS. You don't understand how iOS works.
It's not the hardware. The hardware can do "stuff" that mobile devices do.
See above. I'm sure the hardware - Apple and Android - _can_ natively do
a _few_ things, but most of the time, when people think their 'phone is
doing them, it isn't. Either (any) OS.[]
While this is certainly true, what people need to understand if they
profess to understand how iOS is different from all other common consumer
operating systems, is that Apple *designed* iOS to be a dumb terminal.
I wasn't even _trying_ to understand that difference. (I currently don't _have_ a smartphone of any flavour; my fobile moan has [physical]
buttons on it.)[]
That needs to be repeated because most people have no idea how operatingRepeating something too often makes people ignore you - especially if
you do it in response to something other than what you're locked onto (-:
[]
iOS cannot do that.You do love pointing that out.> Remember that John.
It's not the hardware that makes iOS devices into a dumb terminal.
It's Apple's iOS strategy that makes all iOS devices into a dumb terminal. >> All iOS can do is run the native apps that come with the device if you do
not put an Apple Account on that iOS device - and - most people don't
realize what I'm going to say - even those native apps will soon die.
Most people don't realise that _most_ app.s - on most OSs - are _not_
running on the 'phone.
[Another 150-200 lines of rant - including multiple repetition of my
name - snipped. (Repeatedly using someone's name is a bit like the bloke
in the pub who puts his arm round you and keeps calling you "mate" -
some of us find it off-putting.) You _may_ be right - I neither know nor
care - about iOS, but it _wasn't_ what I was talking about.
On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 18:34:12 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote :
You were on Usenet a lot prior - but you (seemingly) haven't posted much >>> lately, so it's good to see you back active on the Internet in Usenet.
Yes, I'm baaack (-:[]
Welcome back.
You're a good guy, but you jump to conclusions far too quickly (much like Vanguard and Mayayana do). When you see the beginning of a pattern, you
jump to the conclusion that it IS a pattern - which is where you falter.
There's no doubt you're extremely highly intuitive (not sensing at all) in the Myers-Brigg's terminology - and also extremely highly judgemental (not perceptive at all) - which is why you have that very common trait.
The good news is that trait is in many very efficient people.
They don't need no stinkin' data to make judgmental calls.
They call it like they initially see it.
Given that trait, you're dead wrong a huge amount of times, but you're also right a huge amount of times - it's really purely up to probabilities.
Your biggest failing is you TRUST your intuition and your judgment implicitly. Just like Vanguard & Mayayana.
This serves you well because you make snap judgments which is efficient.
Out of a thousand possible pieces of data, you take in five.
And you call it a decision.
Just be careful about that. That's my advice.
I'm the absolute opposite of you.
I don't trust my intuition one bit.
I trust in facts.
Lots of them.
Ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty facts later... I BEGIN to make my assessments. You've made your assessments based on two maybe three facts.
All iOS can do is run the native apps that come with the device if you do
not put an Apple Account on that iOS device - and - most people don't
realize what I'm going to say - even those native apps will soon die.
Most people don't realise that _most_ app.s - on most OSs - are _not_
running on the 'phone.
On 2025/6/9 1:50:39, Alan wrote:
[]
Apple, like big tobacco and big beer & soda is a MARKETING company
alone.
Their iOS devices are nothing but dumb terminals which do almost
nothing without logging into the Apple Cupertino mainframe matrix
servers.
This remains utterly false.
Not utterly, but there's a large component of truth in it - not just
Apple, but all fobile moans (the ones that can run apps, anyway): a significant number of app.s _are_ purely, or mainly, just front-ends
to some remote service: they basically won't do anything without
connecting to an online resource, i. e. they need a permanently-on and permanently-connected data connection. For example, the sort that
identifies a flower, tree, or other plant you come across - they don't
really do that in the 'phone. This fact is pretty poorly presented - certainly in the UK, I suspect everywhere - to the expect that even
techy people don't realise it.
There _are_ some app.s that work entirely in the 'phone - for example,
the ones that show you what wifi networks are within range. But I
suspect they're mainly the exception.
On 09 Jun 2025, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> posted some news:1026bid$fj3g$1@dont-email.me:
On 2025/6/9 1:50:39, Alan wrote:
[]
Apple, like big tobacco and big beer & soda is a MARKETING company
alone.
Their iOS devices are nothing but dumb terminals which do almost
nothing without logging into the Apple Cupertino mainframe matrix
servers.
This remains utterly false.
Not utterly, but there's a large component of truth in it - not just
Apple, but all fobile moans (the ones that can run apps, anyway): a
significant number of app.s _are_ purely, or mainly, just front-ends
to some remote service: they basically won't do anything without
connecting to an online resource, i. e. they need a permanently-on and
permanently-connected data connection. For example, the sort that
identifies a flower, tree, or other plant you come across - they don't
really do that in the 'phone. This fact is pretty poorly presented -
certainly in the UK, I suspect everywhere - to the expect that even
techy people don't realise it.
There _are_ some app.s that work entirely in the 'phone - for example,
the ones that show you what wifi networks are within range. But I
suspect they're mainly the exception.
It's a basic profiling model. Apple and google both use the same
methods to collect data on users. Apps with no server dependencies
generate little useful data. Those that connect to remote services
provide a lot, in particular if there is a branch to something else
during the period of use.
Microsoft is trying to get in on the action with their "Backup"
offering and stupid AI.
I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter codswallop.
It's a basic profiling model. Apple and google both use the same
methods to collect data on users. Apps with no server dependencies
generate little useful data. Those that connect to remote services
provide a lot, in particular if there is a branch to something else
during the period of use.
Microsoft is trying to get in on the action with their "Backup"
offering and stupid AI.
On 2025-06-10 10:34, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
All iOS can do is run the native apps that come with the device if
you do
not put an Apple Account on that iOS device - and - most people don't
realize what I'm going to say - even those native apps will soon die.
They're capable of doing the processing. They need the external data though.Most people don't realise that _most_ app.s - on most OSs - are _not_
running on the 'phone.
J.P.
I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter codswallop.
Many apps do need data from online sources, but relatively few are doing
any processing anywhere but on the device itself.
On 2025/6/10 22:21:27, Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-10 10:34, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
All iOS can do is run the native apps that come with the device if
you do
not put an Apple Account on that iOS device - and - most people don't
realize what I'm going to say - even those native apps will soon die.
(I didn't write the above.)>>
They're capable of doing the processing. They need the external dataMost people don't realise that _most_ app.s - on most OSs - are _not_
running on the 'phone.
J.P.
I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter codswallop.
Many apps do need data from online sources, but relatively few are
doing any processing anywhere but on the device itself.
though.
You're a good guy, but you jump to conclusions far too quickly (much like >Vanguard and Mayayana do).
You're a good guy, but you jump to conclusions far too quickly (much like >>Vanguard and Mayayana do).
I remember the "Mayayana" asshole. His favorite thing was to launch
an ignorant, insulting attack and then, when people responded
negatively, claim that his "point was proven".
I've always said that a strong I coupled with a strong J is the most dangerous person in the room if they have the most power - because - they make decisions based on intuition alone - and they expect you to follow.
However, I respect all three of them for their knowledge.
I study everyone who posts here & I have done so for decades.
John (JP) Gilliver is a good guy, as is VanguardLH (formerly Vanguard) & Mayayana (now Newayana); they're all good people in that they speak their minds to help others on Usenet - which is - after all - why we're here.
a. John is well versed in VPN, for example - particularly VPN safety
b. Vanguard does his research - better than almost anyone (save for Paul)
c. Mayayana knows his coding particularly around image processing tools
Why I lumped them together is they all have VERY STRONG tendencies to take
a tiny bit of data and to STRONGLY conclude "something" from that data.
I often equate it to racism, which is the same set of traits, but they're clearly not racists - they just think in the same manner as racists do.
That is, if they see a black person in their all-white neighborhood, that fact alone makes them jump to the conclusion that he has criminal intent.
Or, if they see a person with a mask on his face in a bank, they
immediately jump to the very strong conclusion that he is going to rob it.
Now, where do they get their "data" from?
a. Well, black people do commit crimes, right?
b. And people who rob banks do wear ski masks, right?
So, duh. Of course they're criminals.
Worse, they're *always* going to be criminals in their minds.
However, I respect all three of them for their knowledge.--
On 2025-06-11 01:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/6/10 22:21:27, Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-10 10:34, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
All iOS can do is run the native apps that come with the device if
you do
not put an Apple Account on that iOS device - and - most people don't >>>>> realize what I'm going to say - even those native apps will soon die.
(I didn't write the above.)>>
They're capable of doing the processing. They need the external dataMost people don't realise that _most_ app.s - on most OSs - are
_not_ running on the 'phone.
J.P.
I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter codswallop.
Many apps do need data from online sources, but relatively few are
doing any processing anywhere but on the device itself.
though.
And needing external data is NOT the same as "_not_ running on the phone".
a. John is well versed in VPN, for example - particularly VPN safety
I know as near nothing as makes any sense about VPNs;
On 2025/6/11 15:56:31, Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-11 01:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/6/10 22:21:27, Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-10 10:34, J. P. Gilliver wrote:(I didn't write the above.)>>
All iOS can do is run the native apps that come with the device if >>>>>> you do
not put an Apple Account on that iOS device - and - most people don't >>>>>> realize what I'm going to say - even those native apps will soon die. >>>
They're capable of doing the processing. They need the external dataMost people don't realise that _most_ app.s - on most OSs - are
_not_ running on the 'phone.
J.P.
I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter codswallop.
Many apps do need data from online sources, but relatively few are
doing any processing anywhere but on the device itself.
though.
And needing external data is NOT the same as "_not_ running on the phone".
I yield; you're right. But _practically_, if they don't run without live access to the data, the _effect_ is the same: people think their 'phone
is doing the task on its own, but it isn't. (Like: I can read, but I'm
not carrying an encyclopaedia.)
Your computer running Thunderbird right now is also not doing the usenet task on it's own. It needs data from the network. Does that mean your computer is not doing any processing on its own? Same for web browsing, banking, making airline/hotel reservations, shopping, streaming music/movies/whatever, reading
news and many other common tasks.
This is all classic "client/server" computing and is the whole point of networks. Access to data that no longer needs to be stored locally. In fact, SO MUCH DATA that it would be impossible and impractical for everyone to store
it all locally. Everything is instantly available on far away servers. From all computers: mainframes, PCs, tablets and phones.
Indeed, today the network IS the computer. There is very little interesting/fun/informative stuff to do today on a computer without internet access.
Indeed, today the network IS the computer. There is very little interesting/fun/informative stuff to do today on a computer without internet access.
On 2025/6/11 15:56:31, Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-11 01:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/6/10 22:21:27, Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-10 10:34, J. P. Gilliver wrote:(I didn't write the above.)>>
All iOS can do is run the native apps that come with the device if >>>>>> you do
not put an Apple Account on that iOS device - and - most people don't >>>>>> realize what I'm going to say - even those native apps will soon die. >>>
They're capable of doing the processing. They need the external dataMost people don't realise that _most_ app.s - on most OSs - are
_not_ running on the 'phone.
J.P.
I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter codswallop.
Many apps do need data from online sources, but relatively few are
doing any processing anywhere but on the device itself.
though.
And needing external data is NOT the same as "_not_ running on the
phone".
I yield; you're right. But _practically_, if they don't run without live access to the data, the _effect_ is the same: people think their 'phone
is doing the task on its own, but it isn't. (Like: I can read, but I'm
not carrying an encyclopaedia.)
On 2025/6/12 16:51:49, Tyrone wrote:
[]
Your computer running Thunderbird right now is also not doing the
usenet task
on it's own. It needs data from the network. Does that mean your
computer is
not doing any processing on its own? Same for web browsing, banking,
making
airline/hotel reservations, shopping, streaming music/movies/whatever,
reading
news and many other common tasks.
This is all classic "client/server" computing and is the whole point of
networks. Access to data that no longer needs to be stored locally. In
fact,
SO MUCH DATA that it would be impossible and impractical for everyone
to store
it all locally. Everything is instantly available on far away
servers. From
all computers: mainframes, PCs, tablets and phones.
Indeed, today the network IS the computer. There is very little
interesting/fun/informative stuff to do today on a computer without
internet
access.
Totally agree.
My original point (I forget who I was replying to) was that a lot of
people, and certainly encouraged in this by those who sell/make fobile
moans, _do_ think that their 'phone _is_ doing (a lot of) things all by itself. They don't realise it isn't, until they experience a loss of
signal.
Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-12 08:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/6/11 15:56:31, Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-11 01:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/6/10 22:21:27, Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-10 10:34, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
All iOS can do is run the native apps that come with the device >>>>>>>> if you do not put an Apple Account on that iOS device - and -
most people don't realize what I'm going to say - even those
native apps will soon die.
(I didn't write the above.)>>
They're capable of doing the processing. They need the externalMost people don't realise that _most_ app.s - on most OSs - are
_not_ running on the 'phone.
J.P.
I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter codswallop.
Many apps do need data from online sources, but relatively few
are doing any processing anywhere but on the device itself.
data though.
And needing external data is NOT the same as "_not_ running on the
phone".
I yield; you're right. But _practically_, if they don't run without
live access to the data, the _effect_ is the same: people think
their 'phone is doing the task on its own, but it isn't. (Like: I
can read, but I'm not carrying an encyclopaedia.)
No.
There are LOTS of things that don't need to access data off the
phone.
no there isn't
On 2025/6/12 8:15:2, Marion wrote:
[]
I study everyone who posts here & I have done so for decades.
I've been here for years too.>
John (JP) Gilliver is a good guy, as is VanguardLH (formerly Vanguard) &
Mayayana (now Newayana); they're all good people in that they speak their
minds to help others on Usenet - which is - after all - why we're here.
a. John is well versed in VPN, for example - particularly VPN safety
I know as near nothing as makes any sense about VPNs; I've certainly
never (knowingly, anyway) used one. Don't know where you "jumped to
that conclusion" on, "based on no data". (-:
Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-12 09:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/6/12 16:51:49, Tyrone wrote:
[]
Your computer running Thunderbird right now is also not doing the
usenet task
on it's own. It needs data from the network. Does that mean your
computer is
not doing any processing on its own? Same for web browsing,
banking, making
airline/hotel reservations, shopping, streaming
music/movies/whatever, reading
news and many other common tasks.
This is all classic "client/server" computing and is the whole point of >>>> networks. Access to data that no longer needs to be stored locally.
In fact,
SO MUCH DATA that it would be impossible and impractical for
everyone to store
it all locally. Everything is instantly available on far away
servers. From
all computers: mainframes, PCs, tablets and phones.
Indeed, today the network IS the computer. There is very little
interesting/fun/informative stuff to do today on a computer without
internet
access.
Totally agree.
My original point (I forget who I was replying to) was that a lot of
people, and certainly encouraged in this by those who sell/make
fobile moans, _do_ think that their 'phone _is_ doing (a lot of)
things all by itself. They don't realise it isn't, until they
experience a loss of signal.
I'm sorry, but my phone doing a lot of things all by itself.
Tell you what: turn it around?
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I CAN'T
without a data connection?
i'll say look at porn
You know, I have been on Apple phones and tablets going on 5 years now. Nothing bad has ever happened. No spam, no unwanted snail mail, and no hassles at all. What exactly is your point?
You've never been able to spoof your gps location on iOS, either.
You've never been able to spoof your gps location on iOS, either.
Why would any good, law-abiding, citizen want to do that??
On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 21:47:29 +1000, Daniel70 wrote :
You've never been able to spoof your gps location on iOS, either.
Why would any good, law-abiding, citizen want to do that??
That's sort of like saying why would anyone want to live outside a prison.
The Apple device is designed as a walled prison garden.
Most people are not comfortable living inside a prison; but, clearly Apple owners are *very* comfortable being told they can't actually do anything.
On 2025/6/12 19:22:22, Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-12 09:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[Does nobody snip these days?]
On 2025/6/12 16:51:49, Tyrone wrote:
My original point (I forget who I was replying to) was that a lot of
people, and certainly encouraged in this by those who sell/make
fobile moans, _do_ think that their 'phone _is_ doing (a lot of)
things all by itself. They don't realise it isn't, until they
experience a loss of signal.
I'm sorry, but my phone doing a lot of things all by itself.
Tell you what: turn it around?
(At first I was very puzzled there, as I thought you meant turn the
'phone round! Then I realised.)>
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I CAN'T
without a data connection?
Well, take my example: those "what is that flower/plant/tree" type
app.s. I'm sure a lot of users of those think they run entirely in the 'phone.
And probably a lot of mapping app.s. (Yes, I know you _can_ tell the
'phone to _pre_load maps for quite a large area, if you're planning a journey.)
On 2025-06-12 09:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[Does nobody snip these days?]
On 2025/6/12 16:51:49, Tyrone wrote:
My original point (I forget who I was replying to) was that a lot of
people, and certainly encouraged in this by those who sell/make fobile
moans, _do_ think that their 'phone _is_ doing (a lot of) things all
by itself. They don't realise it isn't, until they experience a loss
of signal.
I'm sorry, but my phone doing a lot of things all by itself.
Tell you what: turn it around?
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I CAN'T
without a data connection?
On 2025/6/12 19:22:22, Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-12 09:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[Does nobody snip these days?]
On 2025/6/12 16:51:49, Tyrone wrote:
My original point (I forget who I was replying to) was that a lot of
people, and certainly encouraged in this by those who sell/make fobile
moans, _do_ think that their 'phone _is_ doing (a lot of) things all by
itself. They don't realise it isn't, until they experience a loss of
signal.
I'm sorry, but my phone doing a lot of things all by itself.
Tell you what: turn it around?
(At first I was very puzzled there, as I thought you meant turn the
'phone round! Then I realised.)>
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I CAN'T
without a data connection?
Well, take my example: those "what is that flower/plant/tree" type
app.s. I'm sure a lot of users of those think they run entirely in the 'phone.
And probably a lot of mapping app.s. (Yes, I know you _can_ tell the
'phone to _pre_load maps for quite a large area, if you're planning a journey.)
On 2025-06-13 21:33:01 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:
On 2025/6/12 19:22:22, Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-12 09:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[Does nobody snip these days?]
On 2025/6/12 16:51:49, Tyrone wrote:
My original point (I forget who I was replying to) was that a lot of
people, and certainly encouraged in this by those who sell/make
fobile moans, _do_ think that their 'phone _is_ doing (a lot of)
things all by itself. They don't realise it isn't, until they
experience a loss of signal.
I'm sorry, but my phone doing a lot of things all by itself.
Tell you what: turn it around?
(At first I was very puzzled there, as I thought you meant turn the
'phone round! Then I realised.)>
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I CAN'T
without a data connection?
Well, take my example: those "what is that flower/plant/tree" type
app.s. I'm sure a lot of users of those think they run entirely in the
'phone.
And probably a lot of mapping app.s. (Yes, I know you _can_ tell the
'phone to _pre_load maps for quite a large area, if you're planning a
journey.)
And the exact same thing happens with those apps on Android too, so
anyone whining on about it as some sort of iPhone flaw is a complete
moron and/or just a troll ... either way they're best added to teh
killfile and ignored.
Your Name wrote on 6/13/2025 6:05 PM:
On 2025-06-13 21:33:01 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:
On 2025/6/12 19:22:22, Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-12 09:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[Does nobody snip these days?]
On 2025/6/12 16:51:49, Tyrone wrote:
My original point (I forget who I was replying to) was that a lot
of people, and certainly encouraged in this by those who sell/make
fobile moans, _do_ think that their 'phone _is_ doing (a lot of)
things all by itself. They don't realise it isn't, until they
experience a loss of signal.
I'm sorry, but my phone doing a lot of things all by itself.
Tell you what: turn it around?
(At first I was very puzzled there, as I thought you meant turn the
'phone round! Then I realised.)>
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I CAN'T
without a data connection?
Well, take my example: those "what is that flower/plant/tree" type
app.s. I'm sure a lot of users of those think they run entirely in
the 'phone.
And probably a lot of mapping app.s. (Yes, I know you _can_ tell the
'phone to _pre_load maps for quite a large area, if you're planning a
journey.)
And the exact same thing happens with those apps on Android too, so
anyone whining on about it as some sort of iPhone flaw is a complete
moron and/or just a troll ... either way they're best added to teh
killfile and ignored.
Indeed. Every normal person knows damn well that iphones have ZERO
flaws. Never. Ever.
Those who claim to find a tiny flaw are obviously trolls trying to
damage apple's pristine reputation. We must fight them with all our
strength.
On 2025-06-13 16:13, Hank Rogers wrote:
Your Name wrote on 6/13/2025 6:05 PM:
On 2025-06-13 21:33:01 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:
On 2025/6/12 19:22:22, Alan wrote:
On 2025-06-12 09:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[Does nobody snip these days?]
On 2025/6/12 16:51:49, Tyrone wrote:
My original point (I forget who I was replying to) was that a lot
of people, and certainly encouraged in this by those who sell/make >>>>>> fobile moans, _do_ think that their 'phone _is_ doing (a lot of)
things all by itself. They don't realise it isn't, until they
experience a loss of signal.
I'm sorry, but my phone doing a lot of things all by itself.
Tell you what: turn it around?
(At first I was very puzzled there, as I thought you meant turn the
'phone round! Then I realised.)>
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I
CAN'T without a data connection?
Well, take my example: those "what is that flower/plant/tree" type
app.s. I'm sure a lot of users of those think they run entirely in
the 'phone.
And probably a lot of mapping app.s. (Yes, I know you _can_ tell the
'phone to _pre_load maps for quite a large area, if you're planning
a journey.)
And the exact same thing happens with those apps on Android too, so
anyone whining on about it as some sort of iPhone flaw is a complete
moron and/or just a troll ... either way they're best added to teh
killfile and ignored.
Indeed. Every normal person knows damn well that iphones have ZERO
flaws. Never. Ever.
Those who claim to find a tiny flaw are obviously trolls trying to
damage apple's pristine reputation. We must fight them with all our
strength.
Oh, grow up.
You didn't read Paul's post, did you?
On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 21:47:29 +1000, Daniel70 wrote :
You've never been able to spoof your gps location on iOS, either.
Why would any good, law-abiding, citizen want to do that??
That's sort of like saying why would anyone want to live outside a prison.
The Apple device is designed as a walled prison garden.
Most people are not comfortable living inside a prison; but, clearly Apple owners are *very* comfortable being told they can't actually do anything.
Imagine actually believing when you turn on Airplane Mode the entire
device just stops working
Sorry, my question was meant to be "Why would any good, law-abiding,
citizen *ON ANY OS* want/NEED to do that??"
On 2025-06-13 21:33:01 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:[]
On 2025/6/12 19:22:22, Alan wrote:
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I CAN'T
without a data connection?
Well, take my example: those "what is that flower/plant/tree" type
app.s. I'm sure a lot of users of those think they run entirely in the
'phone.
And probably a lot of mapping app.s. (Yes, I know you _can_ tell the
'phone to _pre_load maps for quite a large area, if you're planning a
journey.)
And the exact same thing happens with those apps on Android too, so
anyone whining on about it as some sort of iPhone flaw is a complete
moron and/or just a troll ... either way they're best added to teh
killfile and ignored.
On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 20:43:59 +1000, Daniel70 wrote :
Sorry, my question was meant to be "Why would any good, law-abiding,
citizen *ON ANY OS* want/NEED to do that??"
Just because Apple marketing says iOS is private - doesn't make it so.
Anyone who believes it is - doesn't know anything about how iOS works.
Setting GPS location is only one of hundreds of useful functionality that
is impossible on iOS but which is available on non prison platforms.
On 12 Jun 2025 20:39:38 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :
Imagine actually believing when you turn on Airplane Mode the entire
device just stops working
Imagine an iOS device without logging into Apple servers, Jolly Roger.
It does almost nothing, Jolly Roger.
And, what it does, slowly dies over time as you update the OS version.
Those are facts.
You *hate* Apple so much that you deny those facts, Jolly Roger.
But they're still facts.
Apple designed iOS from the start to be nothing more than a dumb terminal. You can *hate* that fact all you want - but it's still a fact about iOS.
On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 20:43:59 +1000, Daniel70 wrote :
Sorry, my question was meant to be "Why would any good, law-abiding,
citizen *ON ANY OS* want/NEED to do that??"
Just because Apple marketing says iOS is private - doesn't make it so.
Anyone who believes it is - doesn't know anything about how iOS works.
Setting GPS location is only one of hundreds of useful functionality that
is impossible on iOS but which is available on non prison platforms.
On Jun 14, 2025 at 9:56:10 AM EDT, "Marion" <marion@facts.com> wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 20:43:59 +1000, Daniel70 wrote :
Sorry, my question was meant to be "Why would any good, law-abiding,
citizen *ON ANY OS* want/NEED to do that??"
Just because Apple marketing says iOS is private - doesn't make it so.
Anyone who believes it is - doesn't know anything about how iOS works.
Setting GPS location is only one of hundreds of useful functionality that
is impossible on iOS but which is available on non prison platforms.
Just like "SMB Servers are impossible on iOS"?
Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
On 12 Jun 2025 20:39:38 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :
Imagine actually believing when you turn on Airplane Mode the entire
device just stops working
Imagine an iOS device without logging into Apple servers, Jolly Roger.
It does almost nothing, Jolly Roger.
And, what it does, slowly dies over time as you update the OS version.
Those are facts.
You *hate* Apple so much that you deny those facts, Jolly Roger.
But they're still facts.
Apple designed iOS from the start to be nothing more than a dumb terminal. >> You can *hate* that fact all you want - but it's still a fact about iOS.
Tell a smart man a lie and it makes him angry. Tell a stupid man the truth and it makes him angry.
On 2025-06-14 10:14, Tyrone wrote:
On Jun 14, 2025 at 9:56:10 AM EDT, "Marion" <marion@facts.com> wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 20:43:59 +1000, Daniel70 wrote :
Sorry, my question was meant to be "Why would any good, law-abiding,
citizen *ON ANY OS* want/NEED to do that??"
Just because Apple marketing says iOS is private - doesn't make it so.
Anyone who believes it is - doesn't know anything about how iOS works.
Setting GPS location is only one of hundreds of useful functionality that >>> is impossible on iOS but which is available on non prison platforms.
Just like "SMB Servers are impossible on iOS"?
And why does he keep saying "GPS location" like it's its own thing?
GPS is used to DETERMINE your location, but when you're speaking of
spoofing location, GPS isn't involved.
:-)
Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
On 12 Jun 2025 20:39:38 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :
Imagine actually believing when you turn on Airplane Mode the entire
device just stops working
Imagine an iOS device without logging into Apple servers, Jolly Roger.
It does almost nothing, Jolly Roger.
And, what it does, slowly dies over time as you update the OS version.
Those are facts.
You *hate* Apple so much that you deny those facts, Jolly Roger.
But they're still facts.
Apple designed iOS from the start to be nothing more than a dumb terminal. >> You can *hate* that fact all you want - but it's still a fact about iOS.
Tell a smart man a lie and it makes him angry. Tell a stupid man the truth and it makes him angry.
comical and pathetic.
Apple designed iOS from the start to be nothing more than a dumb terminal. >> You can *hate* that fact all you want - but it's still a fact about iOS.
Tell a smart man a lie and it makes him angry. Tell a stupid man the truth and it makes him angry.
On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 17:47:10 +0000, Tyrone wrote :
comical and pathetic.
And yet, you must know it's the truth that if you do not have an Apple ID
on your iOS device, you can update the OS but you can't download apps.
Given even you Apple trolls must know that fact, you must also then know
that over time, the apps will request to be updated as you update the OS.
Then what happens?
The few apps that worked, stop working.
Even you Apple trolls must know this.
And yet, you deny it.
On 2025/6/14 0:5:22, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-06-13 21:33:01 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:[]
On 2025/6/12 19:22:22, Alan wrote:
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I CAN'T
without a data connection?
Well, take my example: those "what is that flower/plant/tree" type
app.s. I'm sure a lot of users of those think they run entirely in the
'phone.
And probably a lot of mapping app.s. (Yes, I know you _can_ tell the
'phone to _pre_load maps for quite a large area, if you're planning a
journey.)
And the exact same thing happens with those apps on Android too, so
anyone whining on about it as some sort of iPhone flaw is a complete
moron and/or just a troll ... either way they're best added to teh
killfile and ignored.
Definitely so! Many users of /all/ "smartphones" think their 'phone
does a lot on its own, without getting information from a mothership
(of one flavour or another - sometimes one not connected with either OS manufacturer).>
On 2025-06-14 14:30:21 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:
On 2025/6/14 0:5:22, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-06-13 21:33:01 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:[]
On 2025/6/12 19:22:22, Alan wrote:
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I
CAN'T without a data connection?
Well, take my example: those "what is that flower/plant/tree" type
app.s. I'm sure a lot of users of those think they run entirely in
the 'phone.
And probably a lot of mapping app.s. (Yes, I know you _can_ tell the
'phone to _pre_load maps for quite a large area, if you're planning
a journey.)
And the exact same thing happens with those apps on Android too, so
anyone whining on about it as some sort of iPhone flaw is a complete
moron and/or just a troll ... either way they're best added to teh
killfile and ignored.
Definitely so! Many users of /all/ "smartphones" think their 'phone
does a lot on its own, without getting information from a mothership
(of one flavour or another - sometimes one not connected with either
OS manufacturer).>
It depends what you want to do with your device. It's is perfectly
possible to use some apps on any device without needing any internet or
cell connection at all - in fact it is sometimes better thanks to not
seeing the silly adverts that so many "free" apps insist on having. (Obviously you can't use the phone features of an iPhone without a cell connection.)
Your Name wrote on 6/14/2025 5:51 PM:
On 2025-06-14 14:30:21 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:
On 2025/6/14 0:5:22, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-06-13 21:33:01 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:[]
On 2025/6/12 19:22:22, Alan wrote:
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I
CAN'T without a data connection?
Well, take my example: those "what is that flower/plant/tree" type
app.s. I'm sure a lot of users of those think they run entirely in
the 'phone.
And probably a lot of mapping app.s. (Yes, I know you _can_ tell
the 'phone to _pre_load maps for quite a large area, if you're
planning a journey.)
And the exact same thing happens with those apps on Android too, so
anyone whining on about it as some sort of iPhone flaw is a complete
moron and/or just a troll ... either way they're best added to teh
killfile and ignored.
Definitely so! Many users of /all/ "smartphones" think their 'phone
does a lot on its own, without getting information from a mothership
(of one flavour or another - sometimes one not connected with either
OS manufacturer).>
It depends what you want to do with your device. It's is perfectly
possible to use some apps on any device without needing any internet
or cell connection at all - in fact it is sometimes better thanks to
not seeing the silly adverts that so many "free" apps insist on
having. (Obviously you can't use the phone features of an iPhone
without a cell connection.)
Yes! Any fool knows that any iphone works just as well ... with orWhat are you even trying to say?
without an internet connection. And for any "app" that iphone is
running. I guess Siri must do it somehow.
All apple devices behave this way, but if you're running some program on
an android or windows device, you'll probably have to connect an old fashioned internet source.
Alan wrote on 6/14/2025 6:59 PM:
On 2025-06-14 16:36, Hank Rogers wrote:
Your Name wrote on 6/14/2025 5:51 PM:What are you even trying to say?
On 2025-06-14 14:30:21 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:
On 2025/6/14 0:5:22, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-06-13 21:33:01 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:[]
On 2025/6/12 19:22:22, Alan wrote:
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I >>>>>>>> CAN'T without a data connection?
Well, take my example: those "what is that flower/plant/tree"
type app.s. I'm sure a lot of users of those think they run
entirely in the 'phone.
And probably a lot of mapping app.s. (Yes, I know you _can_ tell >>>>>>> the 'phone to _pre_load maps for quite a large area, if you're
planning a journey.)
And the exact same thing happens with those apps on Android too,
so anyone whining on about it as some sort of iPhone flaw is a
complete moron and/or just a troll ... either way they're best
added to teh killfile and ignored.
Definitely so! Many users of /all/ "smartphones" think their 'phone
does a lot on its own, without getting information from a
mothership (of one flavour or another - sometimes one not connected
with either OS manufacturer).>
It depends what you want to do with your device. It's is perfectly
possible to use some apps on any device without needing any internet
or cell connection at all - in fact it is sometimes better thanks to
not seeing the silly adverts that so many "free" apps insist on
having. (Obviously you can't use the phone features of an iPhone
without a cell connection.)
Yes! Any fool knows that any iphone works just as well ... with or
without an internet connection. And for any "app" that iphone is
running. I guess Siri must do it somehow.
All apple devices behave this way, but if you're running some program
on an android or windows device, you'll probably have to connect an
old fashioned internet source.
Programs on computing devices may need data from sources located on
the internet or the might not. iOS devices are no different in this.
Yes: you need to use an Apple Account to get apps from the App Store,
and to update them.
But the idea that if you're not logged into that account at all times
there is nothing useful you can do is ABSURD.
I always stay logged into apple account. It's easy because it will let
you know whenever you have to do it again. As long as you are logged in,
with apple everything always works even with NO internet. Maybe siri
does it, I don't know.
Stay logged into apple and make sure you have siri running 24/7 and
their shit just works, with NO internet connection. Even a dummy knows
this. It's like magic. Woohoo!
On 2025-06-14 16:36, Hank Rogers wrote:
Your Name wrote on 6/14/2025 5:51 PM:What are you even trying to say?
On 2025-06-14 14:30:21 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:
On 2025/6/14 0:5:22, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-06-13 21:33:01 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:[]
On 2025/6/12 19:22:22, Alan wrote:
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I
CAN'T without a data connection?
Well, take my example: those "what is that flower/plant/tree" type >>>>>> app.s. I'm sure a lot of users of those think they run entirely in >>>>>> the 'phone.
And probably a lot of mapping app.s. (Yes, I know you _can_ tell
the 'phone to _pre_load maps for quite a large area, if you're
planning a journey.)
And the exact same thing happens with those apps on Android too, so
anyone whining on about it as some sort of iPhone flaw is a
complete moron and/or just a troll ... either way they're best
added to teh killfile and ignored.
Definitely so! Many users of /all/ "smartphones" think their 'phone
does a lot on its own, without getting information from a mothership
(of one flavour or another - sometimes one not connected with either
OS manufacturer).>
It depends what you want to do with your device. It's is perfectly
possible to use some apps on any device without needing any internet
or cell connection at all - in fact it is sometimes better thanks to
not seeing the silly adverts that so many "free" apps insist on
having. (Obviously you can't use the phone features of an iPhone
without a cell connection.)
Yes! Any fool knows that any iphone works just as well ... with or
without an internet connection. And for any "app" that iphone is
running. I guess Siri must do it somehow.
All apple devices behave this way, but if you're running some program
on an android or windows device, you'll probably have to connect an
old fashioned internet source.
Programs on computing devices may need data from sources located on the internet or the might not. iOS devices are no different in this.
Yes: you need to use an Apple Account to get apps from the App Store,
and to update them.
But the idea that if you're not logged into that account at all times
there is nothing useful you can do is ABSURD.
On 2025-06-14 17:34, Hank Rogers wrote:
Alan wrote on 6/14/2025 6:59 PM:
On 2025-06-14 16:36, Hank Rogers wrote:
Your Name wrote on 6/14/2025 5:51 PM:What are you even trying to say?
On 2025-06-14 14:30:21 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:
On 2025/6/14 0:5:22, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-06-13 21:33:01 +0000, J. P. Gilliver said:[]
On 2025/6/12 19:22:22, Alan wrote:
What do you think I do with my phone on a regular basis that I >>>>>>>>> CAN'T without a data connection?
Well, take my example: those "what is that flower/plant/tree"
type app.s. I'm sure a lot of users of those think they run
entirely in the 'phone.
And probably a lot of mapping app.s. (Yes, I know you _can_ tell >>>>>>>> the 'phone to _pre_load maps for quite a large area, if you're >>>>>>>> planning a journey.)
And the exact same thing happens with those apps on Android too, >>>>>>> so anyone whining on about it as some sort of iPhone flaw is a
complete moron and/or just a troll ... either way they're best
added to teh killfile and ignored.
Definitely so! Many users of /all/ "smartphones" think their
'phone does a lot on its own, without getting information from a
mothership (of one flavour or another - sometimes one not
connected with either OS manufacturer).>
It depends what you want to do with your device. It's is perfectly
possible to use some apps on any device without needing any
internet or cell connection at all - in fact it is sometimes better
thanks to not seeing the silly adverts that so many "free" apps
insist on having. (Obviously you can't use the phone features of an
iPhone without a cell connection.)
Yes! Any fool knows that any iphone works just as well ... with
or without an internet connection. And for any "app" that iphone
is running. I guess Siri must do it somehow.
All apple devices behave this way, but if you're running some
program on an android or windows device, you'll probably have to
connect an old fashioned internet source.
Programs on computing devices may need data from sources located on
the internet or the might not. iOS devices are no different in this.
Yes: you need to use an Apple Account to get apps from the App Store,
and to update them.
But the idea that if you're not logged into that account at all times
there is nothing useful you can do is ABSURD.
I always stay logged into apple account. It's easy because it will
let you know whenever you have to do it again. As long as you are
logged in, with apple everything always works even with NO internet.Â
Maybe siri does it, I don't know.
Stay logged into apple and make sure you have siri running 24/7 and
their shit just works, with NO internet connection. Even a dummy knows
this. It's like magic. Woohoo!
You're committing the one deadly sin as a troll:
You're dull.
I think it's perfectly fine to disagree, with or without factual
debates.
Marion wrote:
Tell a smart man a lie and it makes him angry. Tell a stupid man
the truth and it makes him angry.
Now when you ask Gemini which operating system is the least safe, it
brings up Apple but it used to just spew Apple propaganda only two
months ago.
What I find interesting, and to your point above, is that Gemini can
learn. The Apple Trolls can not.
Gemini thanks me for setting it straight with factual links.
The Apple Trolls attack me for doing that.
Jolly Roger is perhaps the most vile vehemently filthy Apple troll.
He literally despises anyone who tells him a fact about Apple devices.
Because he fears the truth.
Like any true religious zealot does.
He hates us because he's afraid of us because we tell the factual
truth. But I love when he posts because he's a canonical typical
Apple user.
I think it's perfectly fine to disagree, with or without factual
debates. It's the polarization, demonization, and general nastiness prevalent on these newsgroup which bothers me. Unfortunately it's a microcosm of what's happening in the world today with all our political *leaders* and average people. I don't even bother watching news
anymore because it's nothing more than people yelling at each other.
Reading the news online is much more palatable. Back in the 80's and
90's I used to think the McLaughlin Group political show was outrageous
for how they spoke to each other. Now that is so tame compared to the
way politicians and pundits treat each other today. Civility has been
lost everywhere.
It's easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You are SUCH a coward.
The myth about Canadians being polite has been exposed by our friend 51!
Apple told Alan Baker (who is a herd animal) that he's safer when Apple
locks him into the walled prison garden - which Apple believed, a priori.
Yet, we showed there is no additional safety in terms of 0day exploits.
So the question becomes WHY did Apple lock Alan into the prison garden?
You are SUCH a coward.
The myth about Canadians being polite has been exposed by our friend 51!
It was never a myth that you're a rude hypocrite.
Your type is the worst.
Pretending to be so even-handed.
canadians just make you think they're polite before they kick your ass
On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 17:52:15 -0700, % wrote :
It was never a myth that you're a rude hypocrite.You are SUCH a coward.
The myth about Canadians being polite has been exposed by our friend 51! >>>
Your type is the worst.
Pretending to be so even-handed.
canadians just make you think they're polite before they kick your ass
Alan Baker may be a Canadian, but more than that he *hates* Apple products. Specifically what he *hates* is that Apple lied to him in its marketing.
Apple told Alan Baker (who is a herd animal) that he's safer when Apple
locks him into the walled prison garden - which Apple believed, a priori.
Yet, we showed there is no additional safety in terms of 0day exploits.
So the question becomes WHY did Apple lock Alan into the prison garden?
I know the answer.
But Apple trolls actually *believed* they were safer.
Fancy that.
Apple trolls accepted being walled into the barbed wire prison garden that
is iOS, where they *expected* a fair trade that Apple would protect them.
And yet, there is no mobile device platform more exploited than iOS is. That's just a fact.
They *hate* that fact.
So they *attack* people like badgolferman who understand facts.
They want reasonable logically sensible people to go away.
They want their newsgroup to be only comprised of other herd animals.
It's the same thing all religious zealots do.
Yes! Any fool knows that any iphone works just as well ... with or
without an internet connection. And for any "app" that iphone is
running. I guess Siri must do it somehow.
All apple devices behave this way, but if you're running some program on
an android or windows device, you'll probably have to connect an old fashioned internet source.
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