For those with a computer that can’t handle Window 11, and who are
caught like a deer in the headlights of the approaching end of support
for Windows 10, there are 3 things you can do:
* Suck it up. Junk your existing machine and buy something more modern.
* Stick it out with an obsolete, unsupported OS. By all means continue
to run mission-critical business operations on it, and it will still
keep working fine ... until the day it doesn’t.
* Switch to some more modern OS that will be supported on your
hardware.
Which one is the smart choice? The “End of 10” project is here to help you make an informed decision.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/ready-to-ditch-windows-end-of-10-makes-converting-your-pc-to-linux-easier-than-ever/>
For those with a computer that cant handle Window 11, and who are
caught like a deer in the headlights of the approaching end of support
for Windows 10, there are 3 things you can do:
* Suck it up. Junk your existing machine and buy something more modern.
* Stick it out with an obsolete, unsupported OS. By all means continue
to run mission-critical business operations on it, and it will still
keep working fine ... until the day it doesnt.
* Switch to some more modern OS that will be supported on your
hardware.
Which one is the smart choice? The End of 10 project is here to help
you make an informed decision.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/ready-to-ditch-windows-end-of-10-makes-converting-your-pc-to-linux-easier-than-ever/>
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 21 Jun 2025 00:04:17 -0000 (UTC),
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
For those with a computer that can’t handle Window 11, and who are
caught like a deer in the headlights of the approaching end of support
for Windows 10, there are 3 things you can do:
* Suck it up. Junk your existing machine and buy something more modern.
* Stick it out with an obsolete, unsupported OS. By all means continue
to run mission-critical business operations on it, and it will still
keep working fine ... until the day it doesn’t.
* Switch to some more modern OS that will be supported on your
hardware.
I don't thave a link but I read that some or many pcs that MS says can't handle win11 can, and there are ways to install 11 on them. Sorry I
have no advice on who this applies to or how to do it.
Which one is the smart choice? The “End of 10” project is here to help >> you make an informed decision.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/ready-to-ditch-windows-end-of-10-makes-converting-your-pc-to-linux-easier-than-ever/>
My 4th gen processor is running W11.
On 2025/6/21 1:33:6, Hank Rogers wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote on 6/20/2025 7:04 PM:[provocative bit snipped]
To be fair, I don't think I've ever heard Mr. Torvalds knocking other OSs; he just createdWhich one is the smart choice? The “End of 10†project is here to help
you make an informed decision.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/ready-to-ditch-windows-end-of-10-makes- converting-your-
pc-to-linux-easier-than-ever/>
Linux is wonderful ain't it? I wish everyone could hear the gospel of Linus. Praise
him, all ye faithful.
Amen.
his own (I think originally as a licence-free clone of UNIX). It is other people who verge
on the religious zeal.
On 6/21/25 9:19 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/6/21 1:33:6, Hank Rogers wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote on 6/20/2025 7:04 PM:[provocative bit snipped]
To be fair, I don't think I've ever heard Mr. Torvalds knocking other OSs; he just created his own (I think originally as a licence-free clone of UNIX). It is other people who verge on the religious zeal.Which one is the smart choice? The “End of 10†project is here to help
you make an informed decision.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/ready-to-ditch-windows-end-of-10-makes- converting-your- pc-to-linux-easier-than-ever/>
Linux is wonderful ain't it? I wish everyone could hear the gospel of Linus. Praise him, all ye faithful.
Amen.
As other things should be: If you like it, great, use it.
However, I'm all for people trying other things. Who knows, maybe there is something better. That or it makes you realize why you like what you have. Not just an OS, but most anything in life. I've been put onto a lot of new good food.
By Jack Wallen
"They can purchase a new computer, one with enough oomph to run Windows
11 (an expensive proposition in an unstable economy)."
This isn't true.
To be fair, I don't think I've ever heard Mr. Torvalds knocking other
OSs ...
Linux is wonderful ain't it? I wish everyone could hear the gospel of Linus. Praise him, all ye faithful.
Amen.
(I don't have to _look_ for Windows folk knocking Linux - I find that
without looking.)
On 6/20/2025 8:04 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
For those with a computer that can’t handle Window 11, and who are
caught like a deer in the headlights of the approaching end of support
for Windows 10, there are 3 things you can do:
* Suck it up. Junk your existing machine and buy something more modern.
Which is the easiest solution for most situations. Businesses have
already done this.
For those with a computer that can’t handle Window 11, and who are
caught like a deer in the headlights of the approaching end of support
for Windows 10, there are 3 things you can do:
* Suck it up. Junk your existing machine and buy something more modern.
* Stick it out with an obsolete, unsupported OS. By all means continue
to run mission-critical business operations on it, and it will still
keep working fine ... until the day it doesn’t.
* Switch to some more modern OS that will be supported on your
hardware.
Select a motherboard that supports DDR4, and buy your DDR4 RAM today,
before the supply runs out. Anyone holding off on buying their DDR4
upgrade, should do so right now, this minute. The last company making
DDR4, has announced EOL. Only a Chinese fab would have DDR4 after this.
DDR5 isn't quite as cheap.
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 19:33:06 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
Linux is wonderful ain't it? I wish everyone could hear the gospel of
Linus. Praise him, all ye faithful.
Amen.
Open Source doesn’t have access to multi-million-dollar publicity budgets like the proprietary companies do, to tell everyone how wonderful they
are. All we have is word of mouth, from actual users.
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 17:08:14 -0400, Paul wrote:
Select a motherboard that supports DDR4, and buy your DDR4 RAM today,
before the supply runs out. Anyone holding off on buying their DDR4
upgrade, should do so right now, this minute. The last company making
DDR4, has announced EOL. Only a Chinese fab would have DDR4 after this.
DDR5 isn't quite as cheap.
I've seen this with past generations of RAM and even smaller HDs. The old stuff is either unobtanium or insanely priced unless you can find it on
eBay.
I've had enough bad/nobrand RAM over the years (items I can't blame on China), to not go "looking for a bargain" any more.
Bad RAM would last for about 1.5 years on average. Any time I thought
I'd got a bargain, I also got proved wrong.
This is why I can't look at items that don't have a "history of
success".
There seem to be a lot of enthusiast reports about "the week I spent
with Linux", those sorts of articles.
[Microsoft’s] advertising must be very clever and subliminal.
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 17:08:14 -0400, Paul wrote:
By Jack Wallen
"They can purchase a new computer, one with enough oomph to run Windows
11 (an expensive proposition in an unstable economy)."
This isn't true.
It is true if you include the writeoff of existing hardware which is still fully functional, but cannot run Windows 11.
That’s the problem: Microsoft is forcing users to incur extra costs, just to boost its own bottom line.
On 2025/6/22 5:10:4, Paul wrote:
[]
IDK, is there advertising ?[]
The advertising must be very clever and subliminal.
I don't watch TV any more. Maybe that's why I'm missing
I do watch a lot of TV, and still "live", i. e. I see the ad.s (well,
they come on; whether I perceive them is another matter).
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 17:08:14 -0400, Paul wrote:
By Jack Wallen
"They can purchase a new computer, one with enough oomph to run Windows
11 (an expensive proposition in an unstable economy)."
This isn't true.
It is true if you include the writeoff of existing hardware which is still >fully functional, but cannot run Windows 11.
Thats the problem: Microsoft is forcing users to incur extra costs, just
to boost its own bottom line.
Why would it stop working? Hardware failures, sure. That can happen to >anything. But the software is not "obsolete". Windows 10 will
continue to run just fine.
For example. My wife works in a research lab. There are several
machines there (Gas chromatography, etc.) that rely on Windows 10 PCs
for control/results/reports. These computers are NOT on the company >network. The only network is between the PC, the machine it is
controlling and a local printer. Thus, no chance of malware infections
and also no critical need to upgrade. These are definitely
"mission-critical business operations".
"They can purchase a new computer, one with enough oomph to run Windows 11 (an expensive proposition in an unstable economy)."
This isn't true. The two processor companies are competing
on the low end. And making some concessions on price. And while DDR4
(a money losing proposition for memory companies) is almost
out of production, you can buy that as your RAM type. A computer
does not have to be expensive. Today. By August ? Who knows.
14100 $120 USD (4P+ 0E) (4 cores is enough for W11)
14400 $176 USD (6P+ 4E) (and NOT 14400F which has no iGPU) >AMD Ryzen 7 5700G $167 USD (8P ) My daily driver :-)
These prices aren't that much different from when I was
buying Core2 Duo (E7500, E8400, E4700). I still
have a Dell Refurb with an E8400 in it (which won't
run W11 24H2 because it is missing the SSE4.2 POPCNT instruction).
Select a motherboard that supports DDR4, and buy your DDR4 RAM
today, before the supply runs out.
On 2025/6/22 13:6:34, chrisv wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:[]
It is true if you include the writeoff of existing hardware which is
still
fully functional, but cannot run Windows 11.
The price of the new PC is the entire cost. There is no "writeoff" to
be added to arrive at the total cost of the upgrade.
Yes there is. If, all other things being equal, someone had budgeted for
a PC as having, say, two or three years' useful work in it (say, talking until some hardware fails), but now find s/he now has to not only buy a
new computer but retire the old one, that cost certainly has to be
included in the cost of the "up"grade. (OK, less anything s/he can get
back by selling the old one. But that assumes they can find someone to
sell it to, who isn't also obliged to Move To The New.)>
There are always improvements (and degradations too, but I'll ignoreThat’s the problem: Microsoft is forcing users to incur extra costs,
just to boost its own bottom line.
That's not fair. There are good reasons for the move.
those for the moment); however, whether they are ones that will actually benefit in a financial sense, isn't always clear, and is definitely
going to vary from business to business (and person to person). [I, for example, didn't feel a _lot_ of benefit going from XP to 7, and can'
think of _anything_ - other than the below - that I've experienced
having had to move from 7 to 10. Computers mostly did all I wanted them
to do, somewhere around five to ten years ago.]The one (or two) aspects
for which people _have_ to upgrade are: 1. Security concerns. I
personally feel this aspect is exaggerated for the experienced user, but
I can see that particularly for the newbie, it _is_ a concern. For the
rest of us, yes, black-hat hackers will continue to find holes, that
might not be patched, in older OSs - but I think the incidence of exploitation of those is perhaps of a similar order to the exploitation
of new holes in the new OS? 2. Things not remaining compatible with the
older OS. I'd say the majority of such are web pages, where they use
some feature of browsers, which is not present on versions of browsers
old OSs support. This _ought_ not to be a problem, but is, because web developers tend to use the latest versions of development tools, which
use new features by default. (Often, even where compiling for the older versions actually offers no new feature - they just default to the new.
[Like .docx rather than .doc, and the other parts of Office; I've yet to encounter anyone who actually _uses_ whatever new features that change involved.])
If they do mention what version of Windows that laptop is running,
though, I haven't noticed ...
Why would it stop working? Hardware failures, sure. That can happen to anything. But the software is not "obsolete". Windows 10 will
continue to run just fine.
For example. My wife works in a research lab. There are several
machines there (Gas chromatography, etc.) that rely on Windows 10 PCs
for control/results/reports. These computers are NOT on the company network. The only network is between the PC, the machine it is
controlling and a local printer. Thus, no chance of malware infections
and also no critical need to upgrade. These are definitely
"mission-critical business operations".
Besides, unless you are talking about web apps, the "mission-critical business operations" that are currently running on Windows are not going
to run on Linux.
a contemporary example is IMO probably Microsoft Teams which surged in application during CoVid.
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 19:40:32 -0400, -hh wrote:
a contemporary example is IMO probably Microsoft Teams which surged in
application during CoVid.
That was funny to hear. It was Zoom that became fantastically popular
during COVID lockdowns, while Microsoft struggled to interest users to
try Teams instead.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 02:16:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 19:40:32 -0400, -hh wrote:
a contemporary example is IMO probably Microsoft Teams which surged in >>> application during CoVid.
That was funny to hear. It was Zoom that became fantastically popular
during COVID lockdowns, while Microsoft struggled to interest users to
try Teams instead.
We used Zoom and Slack. The IT guy is a former microsofty and has been pushing Teams without much success. I've used it a couple of times when it was the client's choice. The same guy set up the VPN with Microsoft Authenticator. Either I've gotten used to it or it is working better
lately.
Well, there's home/personal and then there's office. For the home, I
use Zoom's free tier, and we've found some small businesses do too, especially with heterogeneous customer bases.
chrisv wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
It is true if you include the writeoff of existing hardware which is still >>> fully functional, but cannot run Windows 11.
The price of the new PC is the entire cost. There is no "writeoff" to
be added to arrive at the total cost of the upgrade.
Yes there is. If, all other things being equal, someone had budgeted for
a PC as having, say, two or three years' useful work in it (say, talking >until some hardware fails), but now find s/he now has to not only buy a
new computer but retire the old one, that cost certainly has to be
included in the cost of the "up"grade.
On 2025/6/23 1:27:16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 11:59:15 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
If they do mention what version of Windows that laptop is running,
though, I haven't noticed ...
They often do. At one time, Microsoft would pay for part of the cost of
the ad if it included a phrase like “«PC company» recommends Microsoft® >> Windows™”.
... we're hardly ever seeing <PC company> ad.s these days ...
As I think you know very well, I didn't mean the cost of physically unplugging it - I meant the cost of withdrawing it when it still - by
the budget drawn up before it suddenly had to be replaced - had some
residual value. (And such value plummeted as soon as the forced
withdrawal became necessary.)
As you mention, the old machine might even have some value, making the
"cost to retire" a negative number!
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 14:39:27 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/6/23 1:27:16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 11:59:15 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
If they do mention what version of Windows that laptop is running,
though, I haven't noticed ...
They often do. At one time, Microsoft would pay for part of the cost
of the ad if it included a phrase like “«PC company» recommends
Microsoft®
Windows™”.
... we're hardly ever seeing <PC company> ad.s these days ...
They sponsor events to announce new products. And then you get a flurry
of “news” articles telling the ordinary people (you and me) about the
new GUI with the 3D effects (or lack of them) and the new
window-placement algorithm, or the “Liquid Glass” styling, or whatever.
The big-budget advertising is still there, never fear.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 14:39:27 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/6/23 1:27:16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 11:59:15 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
If they do mention what version of Windows that laptop is running,
though, I haven't noticed ...
They often do. At one time, Microsoft would pay for part of the cost of
the ad if it included a phrase like “«PC company» recommends Microsoft®
Windows™”.
... we're hardly ever seeing <PC company> ad.s these days ...
They sponsor events to announce new products. And then you get a flurry of “news” articles telling the ordinary people (you and me) about the new GUI
with the 3D effects (or lack of them) and the new window-placement
algorithm, or the “Liquid Glass” styling, or whatever.
The big-budget advertising is still there, never fear.
I remember laughing years ago at an ad for Windows highlighting
"Windows Snap" :-D
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 08:25:36 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
I remember laughing years ago at an ad for Windows highlighting
"Windows Snap" :-D
If you actually partake of any of the various media that serve ads
(i.e. tv, radio, whatever else) then you are a despicable human degenerate.
Aside from the ridiculous highway billboards, which any advanced
society would summarily outlaw, I have not experienced an ad in
any form since I was 16 years old. (Before then I had no control.)
I do, however, remember the following parody I encountered somewhere,
decades ago, which appealed to me:>
I think that I shall never see
a billboard lovely as a tree.
Where do you live? In a cave?
That's like some sort of hostage-taking scenario.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/microsoft-extends-free-windows-10- security-updates-into-2026-with-strings-attached/
Microsoft blinks again...
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:31:28 -0400, Paul wrote:
That's like some sort of hostage-taking scenario.
As long as you keep giving Microsoft your money, why should they care what you think?
rbowman wrote:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/microsoft-extends-free-windows-10-security-updates-into-2026-with-strings-attached/
Microsoft blinks again...
I don't think "blink" is quite the right word.
I'm going to need H&R Block to decode this "deal" for me.
And enabling a "Backup" software to make copies of
my personal files in their Cloud, that's a non-starter
right there.
Paul wrote:
rbowman wrote:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/microsoft-extends-free-windows-10-security-updates-into-2026-with-strings-attached/
Microsoft blinks again...
I don't think "blink" is quite the right word.
I'm going to need H&R Block to decode this "deal" for me.
And enabling a "Backup" software to make copies of
my personal files in their Cloud, that's a non-starter
right there.
Classic Evilsoft.
On 2025/6/21 1:33:6, Hank Rogers wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote on 6/20/2025 7:04 PM:[provocative bit snipped]
Which one is the smart choice? The ??End of 10?? project is here
to help you make an informed decision.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/ready-to-ditch-windows-end-of-10-makes-
converting-your-pc-to-linux-easier-than-ever/>
Linux is wonderful ain't it? I wish everyone could hear the gospel of Linus. Praise him, all ye faithful.
Amen.
To be fair, I don't think I've ever heard Mr. Torvalds knocking other
OSs; he just created his own (I think originally as a licence-free clone
of UNIX). It is other people who verge on the religious zeal.
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/6/21 1:33:6, Hank Rogers wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote on 6/20/2025 7:04 PM:[provocative bit snipped]
To be fair, I don't think I've ever heard Mr. Torvalds knocking otherWhich one is the smart choice? The ??End of 10?? project is here
to help you make an informed decision.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/ready-to-ditch-windows-end-of-10-makes- >>>> converting-your-pc-to-linux-easier-than-ever/>
Linux is wonderful ain't it? I wish everyone could hear the gospel of
Linus. Praise him, all ye faithful.
Amen.
OSs; he just created his own (I think originally as a licence-free clone
of UNIX). It is other people who verge on the religious zeal.
Here, here! There, there!
But Lawrence is right, it's really terrible that I 'have' to replace
one of our eleven and a half year old systems.
Frank Slootweg wrote on 6/27/2025 4:37 AM:
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/6/21 1:33:6, Hank Rogers wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote on 6/20/2025 7:04 PM:[provocative bit snipped]
To be fair, I don't think I've ever heard Mr. Torvalds knocking otherWhich one is the smart choice? The ??End of 10?? project is here
to help you make an informed decision.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/ready-to-ditch-windows-end-of-10-makes- >>>> converting-your-pc-to-linux-easier-than-ever/>
Linux is wonderful ain't it? I wish everyone could hear the gospel of >>> Linus. Praise him, all ye faithful.
Amen.
OSs; he just created his own (I think originally as a licence-free clone >> of UNIX). It is other people who verge on the religious zeal.
Here, here! There, there!
But Lawrence is right, it's really terrible that I 'have' to replace
one of our eleven and a half year old systems.
What is your system?
I still use a machine from 2011, so it's 14 years old.
Runs win 11 just fine.
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2025/6/21 1:33:6, Hank Rogers wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote on 6/20/2025 7:04 PM:[provocative bit snipped]
To be fair, I don't think I've ever heard Mr. Torvalds knocking otherWhich one is the smart choice? The â??End of 10â?? project is here
to help you make an informed decision.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/ready-to-ditch-windows-end-of-10-makes- >>>> converting-your-pc-to-linux-easier-than-ever/>
Linux is wonderful ain't it? I wish everyone could hear the gospel of >>> Linus. Praise him, all ye faithful.
Amen.
OSs; he just created his own (I think originally as a licence-free clone
of UNIX). It is other people who verge on the religious zeal.
Here, here! There, there!
But Lawrence is right, it's really terrible that I 'have' to replace
one of our eleven and a half year old systems.
You used to replace a system, because you couldn't get the level of performance required. But people discovered after the mid-range quad
cores showed up, that they had "enough" performance. You can even render graphics, if you have enough cores (the unaccelerated graphics in Bash
Shell WSL2/WSLg is proof of that). If you need more performance than
that (as a gamer), then you're in the specialty section,
where the applications-developer decides how big a machine you need.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 507 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 211:50:37 |
| Calls: | 9,970 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 13,828 |
| Messages: | 6,358,090 |
