Another daily-diary article, this time trying out a few Linux distros
that might offer a less painful transition for Windows users <https://www.tomshardware.com/news/live/before-windows-10-goes-eol-im-testing-three-alternative-linux-distros-to-save-my-6-year-old-laptop-from-the-landfill>.
A lot of the time, it seems to me, the hardest step for a Windows user
is copying a bootable Linux image (either live OS or installer) onto a
USB stick. What would be a quick, easy job on Linux itself requires a
fair bit of faffing about with third-party tools on Windows.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:02:00 -0700, T wrote:
gnome is too weird to be usable.
I take it you’re not from North America, then. ;)
gnome is too weird to be usable.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:02:00 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/25/25 5:46 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:testing-three-alternative-linux-distros-to-save-my-6-year-old-laptop-from- the-landfill>.
Another daily-diary article, this time trying out a few Linux distros
that might offer a less painful transition for Windows users
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/live/before-windows-10-goes-eol-im-
A lot of the time, it seems to me, the hardest step for a Windows user
is copying a bootable Linux image (either live OS or installer) onto a
USB stick. What would be a quick, easy job on Linux itself requires a
fair bit of faffing about with third-party tools on Windows.
https://fedoraproject.org/spins KDE, MATE, and Xfce are all great.
gnome is too weird to be usable.
There are two easy ways to burn a flash drive with a Linux ISO from
Windows:
Rufus Web Site:
https://rufus.ie/ https://rufus.akeo.ie/
Fedora Media Write for Linux and Windows:
https://fedoraproject.org/en/workstation/download
Fedora is less complicated. You will notice when running that it calls
some libraries from Rufus
I don't remember the details but Fedora Media Write didn't work for me and
I wound up using rufus. I would not call it 'a fair bit of farfing
around'.
On 6/25/25 5:46 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Another daily-diary article, this time trying out a few Linux distros
that might offer a less painful transition for Windows users
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/live/before-windows-10-goes-eol-im- testing-three-alternative-linux-distros-to-save-my-6-year-old-laptop-from- the-landfill>.
A lot of the time, it seems to me, the hardest step for a Windows user
is copying a bootable Linux image (either live OS or installer) onto a
USB stick. What would be a quick, easy job on Linux itself requires a
fair bit of faffing about with third-party tools on Windows.
https://fedoraproject.org/spins KDE, MATE, and Xfce are all great.
gnome is too weird to be usable.
There are two easy ways to burn a flash drive with a Linux ISO from
Windows:
Rufus Web Site:
https://rufus.ie/ https://rufus.akeo.ie/
Fedora Media Write for Linux and Windows:
https://fedoraproject.org/en/workstation/download
Fedora is less complicated. You will notice when running that it calls
some libraries from Rufus
On 6/25/25 9:39 PM, rbowman wrote:im-
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:02:00 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/25/25 5:46 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Another daily-diary article, this time trying out a few Linux distros
that might offer a less painful transition for Windows users
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/live/before-windows-10-goes-eol-
from-testing-three-alternative-linux-distros-to-save-my-6-year-old-laptop-
the-landfill>.Fly before you buy!
A lot of the time, it seems to me, the hardest step for a Windows
user is copying a bootable Linux image (either live OS or installer)
onto a USB stick. What would be a quick, easy job on Linux itself
requires a fair bit of faffing about with third-party tools on
Windows.
https://fedoraproject.org/spins KDE, MATE, and Xfce are all great.
gnome is too weird to be usable.
There are two easy ways to burn a flash drive with a Linux ISO from
Windows:
Rufus Web Site:
https://rufus.ie/ https://rufus.akeo.ie/
Fedora Media Write for Linux and Windows:
https://fedoraproject.org/en/workstation/download
Fedora is less complicated. You will notice when running that it
calls some libraries from Rufus
I don't remember the details but Fedora Media Write didn't work for me
and I wound up using rufus. I would not call it 'a fair bit of farfing
around'.
Did you try KDE?
Another daily-diary article, this time trying out a few Linux distrosI'm partial to Linux Mint. I've tried a few, MX Linux KDE seems to have worked fine, and
that might offer a less painful transition for Windows users <https://www.tomshardware.com/news/live/before-windows-10-goes-eol-im-testing-three-alternative-linux-distros-to-save-my-6-year-old-laptop-from-the-landfill>.
A lot of the time, it seems to me, the hardest step for a Windows user
is copying a bootable Linux image (either live OS or installer) onto a
USB stick. What would be a quick, easy job on Linux itself requires a
fair bit of faffing about with third-party tools on Windows.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Another daily-diary article, this time trying out a few Linux distros
that might offer a less painful transition for Windows users
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/live/before-windows-10-goes-eol-im-testing-three-alternative-linux-distros-to-save-my-6-year-old-laptop-from-the-landfill>.
A lot of the time, it seems to me, the hardest step for a Windows user
is copying a bootable Linux image (either live OS or installer) onto a
USB stick. What would be a quick, easy job on Linux itself requires a
fair bit of faffing about with third-party tools on Windows.
I just like the URL - a six-year-old laptop is too old. That's the
racket that is the pace of Windows' development. What starts out as a
fine OS turns into a drain on the whole experience. Linux doesn't do
that.
On 6/25/25 8:46 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Another daily-diary article, this time trying out a few Linux distrosI'm partial to Linux Mint. I've tried a few, MX Linux KDE seems to have worked fine, and I have it as one of my 3 boot options. However Mint still gives me a more Windows feel, not that I love Windows but I'm used to it since getting off of DOS.
that might offer a less painful transition for Windows users
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/live/before-windows-10-goes-eol-im-testing-three-alternative-linux-distros-to-save-my-6-year-old-laptop-from-the-landfill>.
A lot of the time, it seems to me, the hardest step for a Windows user
is copying a bootable Linux image (either live OS or installer) onto a
USB stick. What would be a quick, easy job on Linux itself requires a
fair bit of faffing about with third-party tools on Windows.
Linux Mint Cinnamon version.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 21:56:30 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/25/25 9:39 PM, rbowman wrote:im-
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:02:00 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/25/25 5:46 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Another daily-diary article, this time trying out a few Linux distros >>>>> that might offer a less painful transition for Windows users
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/live/before-windows-10-goes-eol-
from-testing-three-alternative-linux-distros-to-save-my-6-year-old-laptop-
the-landfill>.Fly before you buy!
A lot of the time, it seems to me, the hardest step for a Windows
user is copying a bootable Linux image (either live OS or installer) >>>>> onto a USB stick. What would be a quick, easy job on Linux itself
requires a fair bit of faffing about with third-party tools on
Windows.
https://fedoraproject.org/spins KDE, MATE, and Xfce are all great.
gnome is too weird to be usable.
There are two easy ways to burn a flash drive with a Linux ISO from
Windows:
Rufus Web Site:
https://rufus.ie/ https://rufus.akeo.ie/
Fedora Media Write for Linux and Windows:
https://fedoraproject.org/en/workstation/download
Fedora is less complicated. You will notice when running that it
calls some libraries from Rufus
I don't remember the details but Fedora Media Write didn't work for me
and I wound up using rufus. I would not call it 'a fair bit of farfing
around'.
Did you try KDE?
Yes, I'm running the KDE Fedora. When I installed it it was a spin but now it's a full fledged version. Fedora has worked out well and I knew what I
was getting into but it's not a distro if you don't like updating it frequently.
$ dnf history list
ID Command line Date and time Action(s) Altered
65 dnf update 2025-06-26 06:37:18 24
63 dnf update 2025-06-25 04:45:02 152
62 dnf update 2025-06-24 00:55:03 118
61 dnf update 2025-06-19 21:53:46 431
60 dnf update 2025-06-13 05:40:12 54
59 dnf update 2025-06-11 19:31:51 106
58 dnf update 2025-06-10 04:09:00 60
56 dnf update 2025-06-08 03:55:24 384
55 dnf update 2025-06-06 07:18:00 94
54 dnf update 2025-06-01 06:21:12 96
Ubuntu is nowhere that intense.
Fedora s "next to bleeding edge". Fedora has an army of testers that
make sure things work before updating.
Almost nothing gets by them. Almost, bet very seldom.
The updates will calm down after a bit.
My list:
$ dnf history list | grep -v update | grep -v upgrade | grep -v remove
On 6/25/25 8:46 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Another daily-diary article, this time trying out a few Linux distrosI'm partial to Linux Mint. I've tried a few, MX Linux KDE seems to have worked fine, and I have it as one of my 3 boot options. However Mint
that might offer a less painful transition for Windows users
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/live/before-windows-10-goes-eol-im- testing-three-alternative-linux-distros-to-save-my-6-year-old-laptop-from- the-landfill>.
A lot of the time, it seems to me, the hardest step for a Windows user
is copying a bootable Linux image (either live OS or installer) onto a
USB stick. What would be a quick, easy job on Linux itself requires a
fair bit of faffing about with third-party tools on Windows.
still gives me a more Windows feel,
not that I love Windows but I'm used to it since getting off of DOS.
Linux Mint Cinnamon version.
My list:Well, duh, if you grep out any update you don't see any, do you? I had removed a couple of installs like expat-devel from my first list to focus
$ dnf history list | grep -v update | grep -v upgrade | grep -v remove
on the update history.
I'm not arguing against Fedora but if you treat it like Windows patch
Tuesday and only update once a month have fun.
Joel wrote:
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:what does it matter if all you do is post
On Thu, 6/26/2025 3:56 AM, Joel wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Another daily-diary article, this time trying out a few Linux distros >>>>> that might offer a less painful transition for Windows users
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/live/before-windows-10-goes-eol-im-testing-three-alternative-linux-distros-to-save-my-6-year-old-laptop-from-the-landfill>.
A lot of the time, it seems to me, the hardest step for a Windows user >>>>> is copying a bootable Linux image (either live OS or installer) onto a >>>>> USB stick. What would be a quick, easy job on Linux itself requires a >>>>> fair bit of faffing about with third-party tools on Windows.
I just like the URL - a six-year-old laptop is too old. That's the
racket that is the pace of Windows' development. What starts out as a >>>> fine OS turns into a drain on the whole experience. Linux doesn't do
that.
But liars do.
Lenovo X390
I would like to inspect that claim. let's dump the specs. Then check.
https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx/x390/22tp2tx3900?srsltid=AfmBOorreCtpLBORHQWKitmLEijjicouXxdKD8YO1rqIfmtrKjN50vvs
***********************************************************************
8th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-8665U Processor 1.90 GHz 4.80 GHz
Turbo, 4C 8T, 8MB Cache
Operating System Windows 10 Pro 64
Display 13.3" FHD (1920 x 1080) IPS, anti-glare, touchscreen, 300
nits
Graphics Integrated Intel® UHD Graphics
Battery Up to 17.6 hours with 48 Whr battery*
16 GB DDR4 2400MHz (Soldered)
Storage 512 GB PCIe SSD
Security
dTPM 2.0
I/O (Input / Output) Ports
2 x USB 3.1 Gen 1** (one Always On)
1 x USB 3.1 Gen 1 Type-C (Power Delivery, DisplayPort, Data
transfer)
1 x USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-C / Intel Thunderbolt 3 (Power Delivery,
DisplayPort, Data transfer)
MicroSD card reader/Micro-SIM combination slot
Smart card reader (Optional)
Headphone / mic combo
HDMI 1.4
RJ45 via Ethernet Extension adapter (sold separately)
Intel® 9560 802.11AC (2 x 2) & Bluetooth® 5.1 with vPro™
Webcam 720p HD
65W AC adapter (required for Rapid Charge)
6 Cell Li-Ion 48Whr internal battery
***********************************************************************
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors
Intel Core i7-8665U <=== in the list, 50% down the page
In fact, not only is the unit perfectly compliant (will pass the
Health utility),
the owner will also receive the free upgrade from his OEM licensed
Win10Pro
to Win11Pro.
The premise is off to a crooked start. The owner didn't even
test whether it would take an upgrade. It should not even need
any Rufus flag hacks.
I'm running a 4th gen processor, a HEDT, and it works too.
And it's NOT in the list. And it does take the Rufus trick
to get that installed.
My CPU is a desktop 10th gen i5, I had Winblows 11, it became
laughable by 23H2. I wanted to see 24H2 on it, but I would've had to
create a second media to make my ancient motherboard from 2021
recognizable to the dramatically newer installer.
Lenovo X390
I would like to inspect that claim. let's dump the specs. Then check.
But liars do.
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 14:00:17 -0700, T wrote:
And do not forget Brave Browser. No spying and automatic ad blocking.
Uses the Blink rendering engine so it works with web site that only work
with the spyware Chrome browser:
I have Brave 1.80.113 but it is a flatpak. The Ubuntu snap and Windows are also 1.80.113.
And do not forget Brave Browser. No spying and automatic ad blocking.
Uses the Blink rendering engine so it works with web site that only work
with the spyware Chrome browser:
I ran a live Linux Mint. It was okay but not different enough that I installed it permanently.
Have you used Private Windows with TOR yet?
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 18:11:33 -0700, T wrote:
Have you used Private Windows with TOR yet?
No, I use the Tor browser.
Last KDE Live I ran, I thought it was pretty well done.
I use MATE and Xfce as I love minimalism in my OS's. Both do have their issues, but the are rather minor and easy to work with.
I just used rufus to make a USB install drive
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 11:28:14 -0400, Paul wrote:
Lenovo X390
I would like to inspect that claim. let's dump the specs. Then check.
Note the writer’s comment on Microsoft’s minimum required specs:
In reality, those specs won’t get you a great Windows 11
experience; you’d need a better CPU, more RAM, and more storage to
even start using Windows 11 in a productive manner. You’d need
something like an Intel 9th Gen CPU-based system and 16GB of RAM,
along with 512GB of fast storage as a comfortable minimum.
Does that machine meet those specs? Nope.
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 18:22:41 -0700, T wrote:
Last KDE Live I ran, I thought it was pretty well done.
I use MATE and Xfce as I love minimalism in my OS's. Both do have their
issues, but the are rather minor and easy to work with.
I run Xfce on my Debian box at work. This one is Ubuntu with GNOME, the Fedora is KDE, the Lubuntu laptop is LXQt, the eeePC is Trinity, and the
Pi is wlroots, whatever that may be. I've seen references to PIXEL as a hacked LXDE. It doesn't make a lot of difference to me although GNOME is
my least favorite. I prefer the standard menu.
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 11:28:14 -0400, Paul wrote:
Lenovo X390
I would like to inspect that claim. let's dump the specs. Then check.
Note the writer’s comment on Microsoft’s minimum required specs:
In reality, those specs won’t get you a great Windows 11
experience; you’d need a better CPU, more RAM, and more storage to
even start using Windows 11 in a productive manner. You’d need
something like an Intel 9th Gen CPU-based system and 16GB of RAM,
along with 512GB of fast storage as a comfortable minimum.
Does that machine meet those specs? Nope.
The point is, the machine is on the list ...
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:02:00 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/25/25 5:46 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:testing-three-alternative-linux-distros-to-save-my-6-year-old-laptop-from- the-landfill>.
Another daily-diary article, this time trying out a few Linux distros
that might offer a less painful transition for Windows users
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/live/before-windows-10-goes-eol-im-
A lot of the time, it seems to me, the hardest step for a Windows user
is copying a bootable Linux image (either live OS or installer) onto a
USB stick. What would be a quick, easy job on Linux itself requires a
fair bit of faffing about with third-party tools on Windows.
https://fedoraproject.org/spins KDE, MATE, and Xfce are all great.
gnome is too weird to be usable.
There are two easy ways to burn a flash drive with a Linux ISO from
Windows:
Rufus Web Site:
https://rufus.ie/ https://rufus.akeo.ie/
Fedora Media Write for Linux and Windows:
https://fedoraproject.org/en/workstation/download
Fedora is less complicated. You will notice when running that it calls
some libraries from Rufus
I don't remember the details but Fedora Media Write didn't work for me and
I wound up using rufus. I would not call it 'a fair bit of farfing
around'.
Another daily-diary article, this time trying out a few Linux distros
that might offer a less painful transition for Windows users <https://www.tomshardware.com/news/live/before-windows-10-goes-eol-im-testing-
three-alternative-linux-distros-to-save-my-6-year-old-laptop-from-the-landfill
.
A lot of the time, it seems to me, the hardest step for a Windows user
is copying a bootable Linux image (either live OS or installer) onto a
USB stick. What would be a quick, easy job on Linux itself requires a
fair bit of faffing about with third-party tools on Windows.
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 03:21:09 -0400, Paul wrote:
The point is, the machine is on the list ...
Not the X220.
On 2025/6/27 14:53:13, WolfFan wrote:
[]
1. You don’t have to junk Win 10 if you don’t want to. I have XP and 7 machines running, MS bailed on them a long time ago but they still work, I just have to be careful. As most modern web browsers no longer like XP and it
would be a Very Bad Idea(™) to run IE at this late date, the XP machines are locked away on a network which has no internet connectivity, and we take
precautions when running them. Why run them at all? because they run $150,000
imagesetters, that’s why. The imagesetters are very picky about their
What's an imagesetter?
drivers (not really drivers, long story, but the imagesetters won’t work without them) and still work, and management will NOT be replacing them as long as they work. So the XP machines live. I have a couple spare XP machines
for when one of the units in use croaks, which will happen sooner or later. The Win 7 machines live on for similar, though less expensive, reasons. Now,
if you want to go adventuring on ye internet, you might have problems, but you can use Win 10 locally for decades or until the hardware dies, whichever
comes along first.
I used both XP and 7 - including on the 'net - long after both ended "support"; for a reasonably savvy user, I think the dangers are much exaggerated. Fair enough, if you have a combination of inexperienced
users, and critical systems/data that aren't backed up often enough.[]
3. the main problems that I’ve found with modern (a.k.a. less than a decade[]
old) laptops is that a lot of them have Safe Boot in the BIOS/UEFI and getting around it is a pain, and, worse, a lot of vendors (Lenovo, I’m
4. the other problems are drivers. Some vendors (Lenovo again, you bastards!)[]
5. Some distros work better than others on certain hardware. (Lenovo again!)
[]
This particular Lenovo ("ideapad"; bought as refurbished, with W10-64
already on it) has a little hole on the left, that when poked gives me
access to the boot menu (trying the various keys - I got the manual - suggested didn't seem to stop W10 booting). I guess it's like the
"reset" button you used to get on PCs many decades ago, before they
stopped fitting them presumably because people were hitting them
accidentally too often.--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
Making a plant illegal is like saying God was wrong
BUT
Making a plant illegal was one of the first things God ever did...
T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 6/26/25 3:20 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
I just used rufus to make a USB install drive
Same thing I do with me W10 customers. I think
folks are making too big a deal out of all this.
And when M$ suddenly and without warning makes it impossible to run
Win11 with unsupported hardware?
Thanks for the explanation.[]What's an imagesetter?
Prints to film. used for publishing. you use a pro page layout app, lay out the pages, print to laser printers to verify that everythings ok, print to film, burn each page to a plate (four plates for full color, cyan, magenta, yellow, black), slap the plates on the press, print the doc. Newer imagestters print directly to plates. They’re also more expensive.
If you’re carefull you can get away with using older systems for quite some time. you just have to br careful.I know it's tempting providence to say so, but I don't _think_ I've
ideapads are the ‘home’ units, thinkpads are the ‘business’ units.
The topic of a Linux USB preparation will come up, someone will say
"Oh, just use XYZ", but the thing is, they haven't tested XYZ
themselves, and there is a bit of disappointment waiting for you.
I'm using a DE, where I have to do a lot of clicking to switch between
screen modes, yes I am.
On Fri, 6/27/2025 4:11 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
The processor is in the microsoft-maintained Windows 11 list.
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 03:21:09 -0400, Paul wrote:
The point is, the machine is on the list ...
Not the X220.
This means the Health check (previous referred to as an Upgrade
Advisor), will give a passing grade to the unit.
No matter what the manufacturer may inadvertently or otherwise,
list for the unit.
The manufacturer responsibility, revolves around "driver provisioning"
and "tech support" for the item. That's why they make certain assertions
on the site.
The company that is dynamically altering the DVD images and provisioning
the Upgrade Advisor info, ultimately determines whether the OS
installation is "friction free" or not.
To the best of my ability, this unit will be a "friction free" one.
1. You don’t have to junk Win 10 if you don’t want to. I have XP and 7 machines running, MS bailed on them a long time ago but they still work,
I just have to be careful. ... because they run $150,000 imagesetters, that’s why. The imagesetters are very picky about their drivers (not
really drivers, long story, but the imagesetters won’t work without
them) and still work, and management will NOT be replacing them as long
as they work.
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 6/27/2025 11:28 AM, Joel wrote:
T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 6/26/25 3:20 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
I just used rufus to make a USB install drive
Same thing I do with me W10 customers. I think
folks are making too big a deal out of all this.
And when M$ suddenly and without warning makes it impossible to run
Win11 with unsupported hardware?
I'm climbing into my bunker now. I'm eating the beans.
Oh no I'm not. I'm running Oracle Linux !!! :-)
It has a picture of a bronze statue of an adonis
with a goatee on his chin, as the cover art.
I'm using a DE, where I have to do a lot of clicking
to switch between screen modes, yes I am. I feel
free free free!!! And I'm proud of the fact I can't have
icons on my desktop. Nasty nasty things, those desktop icons.
See, two can play the fud game. Your outcome is just
as silly as mine.
A distro can do weird things, it doesn't mean all others would do the
same.
How can we weed out the bad distros and only install good distros? I
hope it's not a random thing.
And how many distros are there?
Is there a good method to navigate all these distros? Maybe
something like a distro explorer, or distro browser?
T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 6/26/25 3:20 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
I just used rufus to make a USB install drive
Same thing I do with me W10 customers. I think
folks are making too big a deal out of all this.
And when M$ suddenly and without warning makes it impossible to run
Win11 with unsupported hardware?
I thought, when I saw that - 16G? Confirms what I always thought about Windows being bloatware. Then I thought - I don't think this machine (I
had to move to W10) has that, and I've just checked: 8G, "A10-9600P
RADEON R5" whatever that is, 251 of 447 GB used (admittedly, SSD) - and
I certainly use it "productively". I don't game, and haven't so far
tried video editing, but for what I want, it's fine. (But then so was my W7-32 in 4G on an i3 with 500 spinning.)>
With Windows 11+, you are the product.
(-: You are with "free" TV, certainly.
You want folks off Windows, you have to get all their exact software
they currently run to work on Linux. And not Wine. Wine is Alpha code
at best.
Take a look at Tiny 11. Debloated out the gate:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 18:41:53 -0700, T wrote:
Take a look at Tiny 11. Debloated out the gate:
Assuming you can trust it, of course. Signed by Microsoft, perhaps?
There are two easy ways to burn a flash drive with a Linux ISO fromI don't remember the details but Fedora Media Write didn't work for me and
Windows:
Rufus Web Site:
https://rufus.ie/ https://rufus.akeo.ie/
Fedora Media Write for Linux and Windows:
https://fedoraproject.org/en/workstation/download
Fedora is less complicated. You will notice when running that it calls
some libraries from Rufus
I wound up using rufus. I would not call it 'a fair bit of farfing
around'.
On 6/27/25 7:03 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 18:48:05 -0700, T wrote:
You want folks off Windows, you have to get all their exact software
they currently run to work on Linux. And not Wine. Wine is Alpha
code at best.
The Steam Deck would seem to prove otherwise ...
What do you mean?
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 18:48:05 -0700, T wrote:
You want folks off Windows, you have to get all their exact software
they currently run to work on Linux. And not Wine. Wine is Alpha code
at best.
The Steam Deck would seem to prove otherwise ...
On 6/27/25 7:06 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 18:41:53 -0700, T wrote:
Take a look at Tiny 11. Debloated out the gate:
Assuming you can trust it, of course. Signed by Microsoft, perhaps?
more FUD
I use it a lot. It is just 23H2 debloated.
And how many distros are there? Is there a good method to navigate all
these distros? Maybe something like a distro explorer, or distro
browser?
You want folks off Windows, you have to get all their exact software
they currently run to work on Linux. And not Wine. Wine is Alpha code
at best.
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 21:15:18 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/27/25 7:06 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 18:41:53 -0700, T wrote:
Take a look at Tiny 11. Debloated out the gate:
Assuming you can trust it, of course. Signed by Microsoft, perhaps?
more FUD
I use it a lot. It is just 23H2 debloated.
Just because you were taken in by it ... well, that’s one way to avoid answering the question ...
On 6/27/25 9:27 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 21:15:18 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/27/25 7:06 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 18:41:53 -0700, T wrote:
Take a look at Tiny 11. Debloated out the gate:
Assuming you can trust it, of course. Signed by Microsoft, perhaps?
more FUD
I use it a lot. It is just 23H2 debloated.
Just because you were taken in by it ... well, that’s one way to avoid
answering the question ...
It is the official Windows iso with things removed.
Nothing is added.
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 21:14:05 -0700, T wrote:
I use Fedora's media write frequently in Fedora. Maybe some of the
switches were wrong in the Windows version.
The Linux version is really picky about
--target-filesystem NTFS
being called out
Path of least resistance. I have a Windows 11 laptop with rufus. Rufus happily created USB sticks for Ubuntu, Lubuntu, Fedora, and Q4OS. I'm not into additional pain.
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 18:48:05 -0700, T wrote:
You want folks off Windows, you have to get all their exact software
they currently run to work on Linux. And not Wine. Wine is Alpha code
at best.
Lucky for me it all does. Of course that also means while I prefer Linux I can also do all the same things on Windows.
I use Fedora's media write frequently in Fedora. Maybe some of the
switches were wrong in the Windows version.
The Linux version is really picky about
--target-filesystem NTFS
being called out
I realize choice can be daunting for a Windows user and discussions
between Linux users often focus on minutiae.
How can we weed out the bad distros and only install good distros? I
hope it's not a random thing.
And how many distros are there? Is there a good method to navigate all these distros? Maybe something like a distro explorer, or distro browser?
ZorinOS A derivative of Ubuntu, with a free tier and a commercial
tier.
Quickbooks has an online version, but every bookkeeper I have come
across hates it.
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 23:06:51 -0700, T wrote:
Linux ISO can be easily created burned to flash drives with a simple dd
command. Window ISO's are created by Bozo the Clown himself and you
need something like WoeUSB or Rufus to burn them.
I've never tried to burn a Windows iso with rufus, only Linux.
On 6/27/25 10:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 18:48:05 -0700, T wrote:
You want folks off Windows, you have to get all their exact software
they currently run to work on Linux. And not Wine. Wine is Alpha
code at best.
Lucky for me it all does. Of course that also means while I prefer
Linux I can also do all the same things on Windows.
Cross platform will be what is needed to get folks over to Linux.
My shop is Linux. I have had to "learn" different things than the
standard Windows crowd. I ever wrote my own accounting system.
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 09:27:06 -0400, Paul wrote:
The topic of a Linux USB preparation will come up, someone will say
"Oh, just use XYZ", but the thing is, they haven't tested XYZ
themselves, and there is a bit of disappointment waiting for you.
I use dd. Yes, I have tested it for myself -- used it in production, in
fact -- many times. Yes, it takes care in use; it’s not nicknamed the “data destroyer” for nothing ...
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 23:03:19 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/27/25 10:49 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 18:48:05 -0700, T wrote:
You want folks off Windows, you have to get all their exact software
they currently run to work on Linux. And not Wine. Wine is Alpha
code at best.
Lucky for me it all does. Of course that also means while I prefer
Linux I can also do all the same things on Windows.
Cross platform will be what is needed to get folks over to Linux.
My shop is Linux. I have had to "learn" different things than the
standard Windows crowd. I ever wrote my own accounting system.
The closest I came to that sort of thing was an inventory control system
on an IBM 5120 about 45 years ago. I don't do business sort of stuff so whether or not Office, Quicken, Quickbooks, and so forth runs on Linux doesn't matter to me. QGIS and the related gdal tools, PostgreSQL/PostGIS, DB2, VS Code, the Arduino IDEs, Thonny, Mu, Vim, Python, .NET except for GUIs, Sqlite, dBeaver, node.js, Thunderbird, Brave, Tor, and so forth are
all cross platform.
Some of the Esri tools and the 10.x C++ SDK plus Visual Studio are the few Windows only things I use and 10.x Esri is dead anyway. VS is handy for
the templates but not a necessity.
The legacy CAD system used the MKS toolkit to create a POSIX environment
on Windows, plus PTC X server to display the Motif GUIs so while the
clients used Windows the software was also cross platform.
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 23:03:19 -0700, T wrote:
Quickbooks has an online version, but every bookkeeper I have come
across hates it.
There are other choices. E.g. Xero.
Linux ISO can be easily created burned to flash drives with a simple dd command. Window ISO's are created by Bozo the Clown himself and you
need something like WoeUSB or Rufus to burn them.
Rufus in Windows can burn Flash drives for you.
HTH,
-T
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 22:43:20 -0700, T wrote:
It is the official Windows iso ...
Yes?
... with things removed.
Ah ...
On Sat, 6/28/2025 2:26 AM, T wrote:
Rufus in Windows can burn Flash drives for you.
HTH,
-T
It's worth a try, but the author of Rufus has not tested
all 500 distributions with it. When I tried on Artix,
that didn't work and I was dropped to a grub prompt.
In the Year Of The Linux Desktop, we only get to quote
combinations personally tested. Rufus may have been
tested with some entries from the Debian part of the
Linux map, but Fedora is another matter. Similarly
the Debian-exosystem "Boot Repair", can repair a
Linux Mint boot problem or a Ubuntu boot problem, but when
I tried a Fedora, that failed to function properly too.
The Boot Repair has advanced a lot, since it was first
invented, and you can never do enough work on a Boot Repair
solution to keep absolutely everyone happy.
This is why there are two websites, where the only
topic is booting. And those sites are not particularly
suited to noobs, they eat noobs for lunch there.
Paul
I burn Linux Live USB's all the time with dd.
Not sure what you are seeing.
On Sat, 6/28/2025 4:26 AM, T wrote:
I burn Linux Live USB's all the time with dd.
Not sure what you are seeing.
Not all hybrids have the right materials for USB boot.
You'd be surprised, if your run a "disktype" on some
of these, the differences between them.
I had one distro I sampled here, it crashed on boot,
calling into question how much test the ISO got before
release. Usually they get further than that.
That's why it is best to start with a mainstream distro,
rather than "look for an item not on the map".
Paul
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 09:53:13 -0400, WolfFan wrote:
1. You don’t have to junk Win 10 if you don’t want to. I have XP and 7 machines running, MS bailed on them a long time ago but they still work,
I just have to be careful. ... because they run $150,000 imagesetters, that’s why. The imagesetters are very picky about their drivers (not really drivers, long story, but the imagesetters won’t work without
them) and still work, and management will NOT be replacing them as long
as they work.
Would you entrust mission-critical business functions to obsolete, unsupported software?
On 6/27/25 3:53 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 09:27:06 -0400, Paul wrote:
The topic of a Linux USB preparation will come up, someone will say
"Oh, just use XYZ", but the thing is, they haven't tested XYZ
themselves, and there is a bit of disappointment waiting for you.
I use dd. Yes, I have tested it for myself -- used it in production, in
fact -- many times. Yes, it takes care in use; it’s not nicknamed the
“data destroyer” for nothing ...
I have even used dd to zero out flash drive that
Windows coughs on.
if=/dev/zero
On 28/06/2025 6:04 pm, T wrote:
On 6/27/25 3:53 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 09:27:06 -0400, Paul wrote:
The topic of a Linux USB preparation will come up, someone will say
"Oh, just use XYZ", but the thing is, they haven't tested XYZ
themselves, and there is a bit of disappointment waiting for you.
I use dd. Yes, I have tested it for myself -- used it in production, in
fact -- many times. Yes, it takes care in use; it’s not nicknamed the
“data destroyer” for nothing ...
I have even used dd to zero out flash drive that
Windows coughs on.
if=/dev/zero
UMMM! (Trying to learn ...) 'if=' is (usually) the input file which is (usually) to be copied somewhere (of=) .... so wouldn't 'if=/dev/zero' (potentially) ZERO the Hard Drive rather than the USB Drive??
that’s why we have spares. The imagesetters shipped with NT4 systems. XP was as far as the older software would go. New imagesetters cost north of 100k, the old ones work, and we have several units, so if one dies and we run out of spares it’s not a big deal until we can gewt a replacement which runs newer software. if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. it ain’t broke.
Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> wrote:
Joel wrote on 6/27/2025 6:08 PM:
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 6/27/2025 11:28 AM, Joel wrote:
T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 6/26/25 3:20 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
I just used rufus to make a USB install drive
Same thing I do with me W10 customers. I think
folks are making too big a deal out of all this.
And when M$ suddenly and without warning makes it impossible to run
Win11 with unsupported hardware?
I'm climbing into my bunker now. I'm eating the beans.
Oh no I'm not. I'm running Oracle Linux !!! :-)
It has a picture of a bronze statue of an adonis
with a goatee on his chin, as the cover art.
I'm using a DE, where I have to do a lot of clicking
to switch between screen modes, yes I am. I feel
free free free!!! And I'm proud of the fact I can't have
icons on my desktop. Nasty nasty things, those desktop icons.
See, two can play the fud game. Your outcome is just
as silly as mine.
A distro can do weird things, it doesn't mean all others would do the
same.
How can we weed out the bad distros and only install good distros? I
hope it's not a random thing.
I'd recommend one of the Ubuntu LTS (longterm support) variants. Great community and fully supported for five years. The std Ubuntu tries too hard to look like macOS, Xubuntu is nice and lightweight and Kubuntu is bit heavier but cleaner that ubuntu
And how many distros are there? Is there a good method to navigate all
these distros? Maybe something like a distro explorer, or distro browser?
Hundreds. But only a dozen mainstream ones.
Take a look at betterbird.eu. It is a fork of Thunderbird with a bunch
of bug fixes and feature requests that Thunderbird refused to fix or implement. The author of Betterbird was one of the original Thunderbird developers that left because he could not get them to fix things.
On 2025/6/27 23:57:48, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 09:53:13 -0400, WolfFan wrote:
1. You don’t have to junk Win 10 if you don’t want to. I have XP and 7 >>> machines running, MS bailed on them a long time ago but they still
work, I just have to be careful. ... because they run $150,000
imagesetters, that’s why. The imagesetters are very picky about their
drivers (not really drivers, long story, but the imagesetters won’t
work without them) and still work, and management will NOT be
replacing them as long as they work.
Would you entrust mission-critical business functions to obsolete,
unsupported software?
To me, it's fairly obvious that he _is_ doing, with no disasters having happened yet; he's "careful", which _isn't_ something beyond rather more
of us than the FUDders would like us to believe.
On 28/06/2025 6:04 pm, T wrote:
I have even used dd to zero out flash drive that
Windows coughs on.
if=/dev/zero
UMMM! (Trying to learn ...) 'if=' is (usually) the input file which is (usually) to be copied somewhere (of=) .... so wouldn't 'if=/dev/
zero' (potentially) ZERO the Hard Drive rather than the USB Drive??
I chose Debian because of the description I found. That doesn't mean
it's better than a lot of lesser-known distros.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 22:43:20 -0700, T wrote:
It is the official Windows iso ...
Yes?
... with things removed.
Ah ...
This includes vital security code to ensuring a safe experience,
Tiny11 is snake oil on its face.
On 2025/6/28 5:15:18, T wrote:
On 6/27/25 7:06 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 18:41:53 -0700, T wrote:
Take a look at Tiny 11. Debloated out the gate:
I like the _sound_ of that: I was a fan of 98lite. (I _think_ they did
XP too, though less effectively; I don't think anyone did a root-and-
branch on 7, though things like Classic Shell nibbled at the edges.)>>
By whom?>Assuming you can trust it, of course. Signed by Microsoft, perhaps?
more FUD
I use it a lot. It is just 23H2 debloated.
more FUD
I use it a lot. It is just 23H2 debloated.
It's not FUD, it's the truth, we have real questions about the
security of Tiny11 in production use with Internet.
On Jun 27, 2025, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote
(in article <103n7lb$dqtr$5@dont-email.me>):
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 09:53:13 -0400, WolfFan wrote:
1. You don’t have to junk Win 10 if you don’t want to. I have XP and 7 >>> machines running, MS bailed on them a long time ago but they still work, >>> I just have to be careful. ... because they run $150,000 imagesetters,
that’s why. The imagesetters are very picky about their drivers (not
really drivers, long story, but the imagesetters won’t work without
them) and still work, and management will NOT be replacing them as long
as they work.
Would you entrust mission-critical business functions to obsolete,
unsupported software?
that’s why we have spares. The imagesetters shipped with NT4 systems. XP was as far as the older software would go. New imagesetters cost north of 100k, the old ones work, and we have several units, so if one dies and we run out of spares it’s not a big deal until we can gewt a replacement which runs newer software. if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. it ain’t broke.
I just used rufus to make a USB install drive.
The std Ubuntu tries too hard to look like macOS, Xubuntu is nice and lightweight and Kubuntu is bit heavier but cleaner that ubuntu
On 6/28/25 11:52 AM, Joel wrote:
I chose Debian because of the description I found. That doesn't mean
it's better than a lot of lesser-known distros.
They are all really about the same. The major difference it their
package managers. dnf, apt,
etc..
And breaks all their embedded Windows installations that run on i386's?
On 6/28/25 12:37 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 23:03:19 -0700, T wrote:
Quickbooks has an online version, but every bookkeeper I have come
across hates it.
There are other choices. E.g. Xero.
Hmmmmmm. I wonder. It is still cloud based. Problem would be gettig bookkeepers to use it and account to accept it.
On 6/28/25 12:10 PM, Joel wrote:
It's not FUD, it's the truth, we have real questions about the
security of Tiny11 in production use with Internet.
No it is FUD.
https://www.auslogics.com/en/articles/what-is-tiny11-install-tiny-windows-11-to-lightweight-your-os/
Legitimate company
Legitimate description
Legitimate author
On 6/28/25 12:37 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 22:43:20 -0700, T wrote:
It is the official Windows iso ...
Yes?
... with things removed.
Ah ...
For those that can not switch to Linux and can not afford to toss
perfectly good hardware.
On 2025/6/27 23:57:48, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 09:53:13 -0400, WolfFan wrote:
1. You don’t have to junk Win 10 if you don’t want to. I have XP and 7 >>> machines running, MS bailed on them a long time ago but they still work, >>> I just have to be careful. ... because they run $150,000 imagesetters,
that’s why. The imagesetters are very picky about their drivers (not
really drivers, long story, but the imagesetters won’t work without
them) and still work, and management will NOT be replacing them as long
as they work.
Would you entrust mission-critical business functions to obsolete,
unsupported software?
To me, it's fairly obvious that he _is_ doing, with no disasters having happened yet ...
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Would you entrust mission-critical business functions to obsolete,
unsupported software?
This is a common scenario. Significant piece of kit requires a PC to
run it. The PC is simply required to host proprietary
command-and-control software which comes with a few years' of
support included. Kit manufacturer launches new version of software
which costs many thousands and has no benefit to the user over the
previous fully working one. Especially as the business has optimised
their workflows with it and don't want to have to do that all over
again.
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 14:05:41 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Would you entrust mission-critical business functions to obsolete,
unsupported software?
This is a common scenario. Significant piece of kit requires a PC to
run it. The PC is simply required to host proprietary
command-and-control software which comes with a few years' of
support included. Kit manufacturer launches new version of software
which costs many thousands and has no benefit to the user over the
previous fully working one. Especially as the business has optimised
their workflows with it and don't want to have to do that all over
again.
Surely if the hardware was that expensive and that important, and that long-lived, the business would have been wise to lock in a support
contract for the expected useful life of the machine, that would
include any necessary software updates?
To do otherwise would not seem to be a recipe for long-term success
...
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 17:20:21 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
I just used rufus to make a USB install drive.
Why not Ventoy rather than Rufus? USB sticks are so capacious now, you
might as well make full use of them.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote on 6/28/2025 6:02 PM:
Lawrence, relax a few minutes.
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 14:05:41 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Would you entrust mission-critical business functions to obsolete,
unsupported software?
This is a common scenario. Significant piece of kit requires a PC to
run it. The PC is simply required to host proprietary
command-and-control software which comes with a few years' of support
included. Kit manufacturer launches new version of software which
costs many thousands and has no benefit to the user over the previous
fully working one. Especially as the business has optimised their
workflows with it and don't want to have to do that all over again.
Surely if the hardware was that expensive and that important, and that
long-lived, the business would have been wise to lock in a support
contract for the expected useful life of the machine, that would
include any necessary software updates?
To do otherwise would not seem to be a recipe for long-term success ...
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 01:06:09 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/28/25 12:37 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 23:03:19 -0700, T wrote:
Quickbooks has an online version, but every bookkeeper I have come
across hates it.
There are other choices. E.g. Xero.
Hmmmmmm. I wonder. It is still cloud based. Problem would be gettig
bookkeepers to use it and account to accept it.
Cloud-based means it gets you one step closer to retiring old Windows machines. I’m sure they’re already widely accepted by accountants etc.
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 12:56:11 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/28/25 11:52 AM, Joel wrote:
I chose Debian because of the description I found. That doesn't mean
it's better than a lot of lesser-known distros.
They are all really about the same. The major difference it their
package managers. dnf, apt,
etc..
There are other variations. E.g. build-everything-from-source, like
Gentoo. Not quite build-from-source, but still geek-oriented, like Arch. Special-purpose ones, like SystemRescue, TAILS, Kali. SteamOS for gaming (interestingly, derived from Arch).
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 01:16:16 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/28/25 12:37 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 22:43:20 -0700, T wrote:
It is the official Windows iso ...
Yes?
... with things removed.
Ah ...
For those that can not switch to Linux and can not afford to toss
perfectly good hardware.
No guarantees that those “things removed” will not break some crucial piece of software that you need to run, though. Is it Open Source? Can
you submit patches to fix it?
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 11:57:50 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/6/27 23:57:48, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 09:53:13 -0400, WolfFan wrote:
1. You don’t have to junk Win 10 if you don’t want to. I have XP and 7 >>>> machines running, MS bailed on them a long time ago but they still work, >>>> I just have to be careful. ... because they run $150,000 imagesetters, >>>> that’s why. The imagesetters are very picky about their drivers (not >>>> really drivers, long story, but the imagesetters won’t work without
them) and still work, and management will NOT be replacing them as long >>>> as they work.
Would you entrust mission-critical business functions to obsolete,
unsupported software?
To me, it's fairly obvious that he _is_ doing, with no disasters having
happened yet ...
Yeah, who needs seatbelts? I haven’t crashed yet, and I don’t plan to ...
T wrote:
On 6/28/25 4:03 AM, WolfFan wrote:what is he on ... glue
On Jun 27, 2025, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote
(in article <103n7lb$dqtr$5@dont-email.me>):
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 09:53:13 -0400, WolfFan wrote:
1. You don’t have to junk Win 10 if you don’t want to. I have XP and 7
machines running, MS bailed on them a long time ago but they still
work,
I just have to be careful. ... because they run $150,000 imagesetters, >>>>> that’s why. The imagesetters are very picky about their drivers (not >>>>> really drivers, long story, but the imagesetters won’t work without >>>>> them) and still work, and management will NOT be replacing them as
long
as they work.
Would you entrust mission-critical business functions to obsolete,
unsupported software?
that’s why we have spares. The imagesetters shipped with NT4 systems. XP >>> was as far as the older software would go. New imagesetters cost
north of
100k, the old ones work, and we have several units, so if one dies
and we run
out of spares it’s not a big deal until we can gewt a replacement which >>> runs newer software. if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. it ain’t broke. >>>
You make a great point.
It always depends on your use. "supported software" is
not always appropriate. Sometimes yes; sometimes no.
There is a guy on the Windows group that has an off grid
system running XP. It won't run on newer OS'es. And he
is in no danger of anything from the Internet anyway.
He is not on it.
It's unrealistic to think these M$ slaves are going to use open-source solutions, they'd rather run Win11 on my machine (as if they'd have
that) for 10 years. You can be as right as you want, arguing what
should be obvious, but they are seeing it as obscure, when they can
suffer for years with a Winblows version that's only a little too
bloated for their box after all updates (it's not even supported,
now).
On 6/28/25 3:51 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 12:56:11 -0700, T wrote:
They are all really about the same. The major difference it their
package managers. dnf, apt,
etc..
There are other variations. E.g. build-everything-from-source, like
Gentoo. Not quite build-from-source, but still geek-oriented, like
Arch. Special-purpose ones, like SystemRescue, TAILS, Kali. SteamOS
for gaming (interestingly, derived from Arch).
The amount of choice available is Linux is dizzying.
I had a live of Kali for a long time. Wasn't all that impressed.
On 6/28/25 3:53 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Cloud-based means it gets you one step closer to retiring old Windows
machines. I’m sure they’re already widely accepted by accountants etc.
Accountants around these parts are Windows based Quickbooks or take a
hike.
On 6/28/25 3:58 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
No guarantees that those “things removed” will not break some crucial
piece of software that you need to run, though. Is it Open Source? Can
you submit patches to fix it?
I do not think you understand. It "is" Windows.
Would you ride in a car with your seat belt on that was one update away
from crashing and killing everyone in the car?
I do PCI (Payment card industry) consulting . Those customers are
required to have all critical patches installed within one month of announcement. All system have to be supported. It is almost a full
time job fixing things that were not broken in the first place.
This is a hot button for me. "Some" of my colleagues in the area will
not help a company in trouble until they let them upgrade all their
systems and software to current versions.
It is unethical make work. And it usually winds up in a horrible
disaster.
They usually have not idea what OS they are running. They only care if
their exact software runs on it.
Yes Windows is s*** or so they have heard (and experienced).
But if Linux will not run their stuff, "Here is 25 cent and go tell some
one cares".
Figure a way around it and I will pitch in to build you a massive
statue!
I had a live of Kali for a long time. Wasn't all that impressed.
But if it is a legal requirement, then you have to make it work. Or else.
Signing off on fulfilling PCI requirements, when the customer hasn’t actually met those requirements, is the course of action with the dubious ethics, I would think.
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 18:18:21 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/28/25 3:51 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 12:56:11 -0700, T wrote:
They are all really about the same. The major difference it their
package managers. dnf, apt,
etc..
There are other variations. E.g. build-everything-from-source, like
Gentoo. Not quite build-from-source, but still geek-oriented, like
Arch. Special-purpose ones, like SystemRescue, TAILS, Kali. SteamOS
for gaming (interestingly, derived from Arch).
The amount of choice available is Linux is dizzying.
The key concept from economics is “barriers to entry”. The barriers for entry of newcomers to the Linux marketplace is very low.
I had a live of Kali for a long time. Wasn't all that impressed.
I think it’s oriented more towards security professionals, pen-testing, that kind of thing.
On 6/28/25 8:24 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
But if it is a legal requirement, then you have to make it work. Or
else.
True. It is the law in this state.
So I have a lot of experience with the problems associated with "keeping things up to date".
W10's end of support is actually a blessing in disguise.
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 18:23:16 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/28/25 3:58 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
No guarantees that those “things removed” will not break some crucial >>> piece of software that you need to run, though. Is it Open Source? Can
you submit patches to fix it?
I do not think you understand. It "is" Windows.
No, you yourself said it is “Windows with things removed”.
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 20:47:17 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/28/25 8:24 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
But if it is a legal requirement, then you have to make it work. Or
else.
True. It is the law in this state.
So I have a lot of experience with the problems associated with "keeping
things up to date".
W10's end of support is actually a blessing in disguise.
But you’re just replacing incremental system updates with a large system upgrade. After which the patch treadmill starts over again.
If you were having problems with update patches before, that’s not going
to go away just by moving to a newer version of Microsoft’s same old OS.
The amount of choice available is Linux is dizzying.The key concept from economics is “barriers to entry”. The barriers for entry of newcomers to the Linux marketplace is very low.
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 20:00:08 -0700, T wrote:
They usually have not idea what OS they are running. They only care if
their exact software runs on it.
Yes Windows is s*** or so they have heard (and experienced).
But if Linux will not run their stuff, "Here is 25 cent and go tell some
one cares".
Figure a way around it and I will pitch in to build you a massive
statue!
How about going around customers that use some particular piece of Windows-specific software, and getting a pool of funding from them to put together the necessary testing and patches to get it running properly
under WINE? Which they all can benefit from? (And others as well?)
That’s got to be less than the cost of upgrading all their machines to
cope with Windows 11.
Free Software doesn’t write itself. Like with anything, you have to put in an investment to get something out. It’s “free” as in “freedom” not “free”
as in “beer”.
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 18:20:22 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/28/25 3:53 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Accountants around these parts are Windows based Quickbooks or take a
Cloud-based means it gets you one step closer to retiring old Windows
machines. I’m sure they’re already widely accepted by accountants etc. >>
hike.
So much for free-market competition, eh?
Even commonly used ones like Wireshark
require some setup to get useful information.
I chose Debian because of the description I found. That doesn't mean
it's better than a lot of lesser-known distros.
On 6/28/25 3:41 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 28/06/2025 6:04 pm, T wrote:
I have even used dd to zero out flash drive that
Windows coughs on.
if=/dev/zero
UMMM! (Trying to learn ...) 'if=' is (usually) the input file which is
(usually) to be copied somewhere (of=) .... so wouldn't 'if=/dev/
zero' (potentially) ZERO the Hard Drive rather than the USB Drive??
Hi Daniel,
"of=" would be the root of your flash drive.
To zero out a flash drive (removes any preinstalled nonsense)
[1] on a Linux machine, open a terminal and su to root.
"#" in the prompt means root
[2] find the scsi drive designation for your flash drive
two (of many) ways:
A. ls -al /dev/sd* before inserting the flash drive
and after. It is the one that is missing, then
appears when you insert your flash drive
B. gparted
your flash drive will show up with some like
brw-rw----. 1 root disk 8, 16 Jun 28 12:42 /dev/sdb
brw-rw----. 1 root disk 8, 17 Jun 28 12:42 /dev/sdb1
you want the drive itself (/dev/sdb), not any partition
(/dev/sdb1)
[3] once you have figure out what the root of your flash drive
is, run Data Destroyer (dd) on it:
# dd status=progress bs=1M if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd[x]
replace sd[x] with the root of your flash drive
status=progress gives an optional fancy display of byte transferred. bs is block size and is optional, 1M means 1 megabyte at a time if is the input file. /dev/zero gives an endless supply of zeros of is the output file/device
Now you can go into gparted and set up your flash drive
however you want it.
HTH,
-T
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 21:16:13 -0700, T wrote:than-windows-11-ars-testing-finds/>
On 6/27/25 7:03 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 18:48:05 -0700, T wrote:
You want folks off Windows, you have to get all their exact software
they currently run to work on Linux. And not Wine. Wine is Alpha
code at best.
The Steam Deck would seem to prove otherwise ...
What do you mean?
Running Windows games better than Windows itself can manage.
<https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2025/06/games-run-faster-on-steamos-
2. It does NOT remove the need for activation.
On 6/28/25 8:22 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 18:23:16 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/28/25 3:58 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
No guarantees that those “things removed” will not break some crucial >>>> piece of software that you need to run, though. Is it Open Source?
Can you submit patches to fix it?
I do not think you understand. It "is" Windows.
No, you yourself said it is “Windows with things removed”.
Nothing is added.
A bunch of undesirable things have been removed. And
by following M$ own directions.
Everything is above board.
Do you have similar issue with Rufus which does some of the same things
in the same manner that Tiny 11 does?
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 22:32:30 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/28/25 8:22 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 18:23:16 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/28/25 3:58 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
No guarantees that those “things removed” will not break some crucial >>>>> piece of software that you need to run, though. Is it Open Source?
Can you submit patches to fix it?
I do not think you understand. It "is" Windows.
No, you yourself said it is “Windows with things removed”.
Nothing is added.
You’re not refuting my point.
A bunch of undesirable things have been removed. And
by following M$ own directions.
Why is it you cannot get Windows already in that form from Microsoft
itself?
Everything is above board.
So you keep insisting, in spite of the evidence to the contrary.
I don't know about Rufus; the claim is that this has been produced byDo you have similar issue with Rufus which does some of the same things
in the same manner that Tiny 11 does?
That’s happening in the privacy of the user’s own machine. If they were to
redistribute the mutated version of Windows that comes out of Rufus (or whatever other unauthorized hacking tool), then that would take us back to this point.
On Sun, 29 Jun 2025 11:39:42 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
2. It does NOT remove the need for activation.
But it is redistributing Microsoft’s copyrighted software without authorization from Microsoft.
On 2025/6/30 0:53:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Why is it you cannot get Windows already in that form from Microsoft
itself?
According to earlier in this thread, it is done by following
instructions from Microsoft itself. So, in theory, you could - but that
would involve obtaining the full thing, then finding and following those instructions yourself.
On 2025/6/30 0:51:29, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jun 2025 11:39:42 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
2. It does NOT remove the need for activation.
But it is redistributing Microsoft’s copyrighted software without
authorization from Microsoft.
That is an interesting point. Presdumably M$ are not _too_ bothered as
it seems to be done under the auspices of a proper company rather than
an individual, and they've not been sat on by M$.
On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 07:39:44 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/6/30 0:53:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Why is it you cannot get Windows already in that form from Microsoft
itself?
According to earlier in this thread, it is done by following
instructions from Microsoft itself. So, in theory, you could - but that
would involve obtaining the full thing, then finding and following those
instructions yourself.
In other words, you cannot get it in that form from Microsoft itself. Why not?
Windows is not an OS, it's a collection of around a thousand or so
packages.
On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 07:39:44 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/6/30 0:53:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Why is it you cannot get Windows already in that form from Microsoft
itself?
According to earlier in this thread, it is done by following
instructions from Microsoft itself. So, in theory, you could - but that
would involve obtaining the full thing, then finding and following those
instructions yourself.
In other words, you cannot get it in that form from Microsoft itself. Why not?
And you can get embedded Windows 11, but yo u have to jump through some hoops. It is not generally available to the public.
On 2025/6/30 0:51:29, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jun 2025 11:39:42 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
2. It does NOT remove the need for activation.
But it is redistributing Microsoft’s copyrighted software without
authorization from Microsoft.
That is an interesting point. Presdumably M$ are not _too_ bothered as
it seems to be done under the auspices of a proper company rather than
an individual, and they've not been sat on by M$.
Tiny 11 is not taking any ownership of anyone else's property.
It's not a copyright violation because Microsoft has made the
installation media public
On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 17:10:19 -0700, T wrote:
Tiny 11 is not taking any ownership of anyone else's property.
Redistributing it without permission is a copyright violation.
On 6/30/25 5:39 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 17:10:19 -0700, T wrote:
Tiny 11 is not taking any ownership of anyone else's property.
Redistributing it without permission is a copyright violation.
it is public:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows11
On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 21:52:03 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/30/25 5:39 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 17:10:19 -0700, T wrote:
Tiny 11 is not taking any ownership of anyone else's property.
Redistributing it without permission is a copyright violation.
it is public:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows11
Doesn’t matter. Them having it on their servers doesn’t permit you to have
it on yours.
On 6/30/25 10:53 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 21:52:03 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/30/25 5:39 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 17:10:19 -0700, T wrote:
Tiny 11 is not taking any ownership of anyone else's property.
Redistributing it without permission is a copyright violation.
it is public:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows11
Doesn’t matter. Them having it on their servers doesn’t permit you to
have it on yours.
What exactly to you think people do with the the ISO download?
On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 23:38:52 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/30/25 10:53 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 21:52:03 -0700, T wrote:
On 6/30/25 5:39 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 17:10:19 -0700, T wrote:
Tiny 11 is not taking any ownership of anyone else's property.
Redistributing it without permission is a copyright violation.
it is public:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows11
Doesn’t matter. Them having it on their servers doesn’t permit you to >>> have it on yours.
What exactly to you think people do with the the ISO download?
Use it in a non-copyright-infringing way, as per the EULA.
And do not, do not, do not do ANY on line banking with Windows.
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 09:27:06 -0400, Paul wrote:
The topic of a Linux USB preparation will come up, someone will say
"Oh, just use XYZ", but the thing is, they haven't tested XYZ
themselves, and there is a bit of disappointment waiting for you.
I use dd. Yes, I have tested it for myself -- used it in production, in
fact -- many times. Yes, it takes care in use; it’s not nicknamed the “data destroyer” for nothing ...
On Sat, 28 Jun 2025 04:26:31 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <103nqtn$ltl1$2@dont-email.me>:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 21:16:13 -0700, T wrote:than-windows-11-ars-testing-finds/>
On 6/27/25 7:03 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 18:48:05 -0700, T wrote:
You want folks off Windows, you have to get all their exact software >>>>> they currently run to work on Linux. And not Wine. Wine is Alpha
code at best.
The Steam Deck would seem to prove otherwise ...
What do you mean?
Running Windows games better than Windows itself can manage.
<https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2025/06/games-run-faster-on-steamos-
You can find game compatibility reports on ProtonDB:
https://www.protondb.com/
Maybe someone will report all these violations to microsofts lawyers.
On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 08:00:58 -0000 (UTC), Hank Rogers wrote:
Maybe someone will report all these violations to microsofts lawyers.
It does seem impossible, doesn?t it, to get through your working day with proprietary software without being dishonest.
Paying for Windows is worth it if you really like the library of free
and low-cost software for it. I just find Linux's to rival it.
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 08:00:58 -0000 (UTC), Hank Rogers wrote:
Maybe someone will report all these violations to microsofts
lawyers.
It does seem impossible, doesn?t it, to get through your working day
with proprietary software without being dishonest.
You're joking, right!?
All my proprietary software is totally legit and that of course
includes Windows itself. Ever since Windows 1.0 (Windows/386) till
Windows 11.
Most of my proprietary software is freeware, as in no cost. I also
have some FOSS.
I think that many (most?) personal/private/'home'/<whatever> use of >>Windows systems can be done with mostly no-cost software. Maybe I'm a >>special case, but from reading these newsgroups, we articles, etc.,
etc., I don't think I am.
Paying for Windows is worth it if you really like the library of free
and low-cost software for it. I just find Linux's to rival it.
Windows enables working efficiently and saves time. Linux devours time attempting to perform the same tasks Windows does.
On 02 Jul 2025, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some news:rpia6k137baa46hj78cav9p5m3sjnjtpf5@4ax.com:[]
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
The majority of what I use, I have not paid for. In a few cases I have,I think that many (most?) personal/private/'home'/<whatever> use of
Windows systems can be done with mostly no-cost software. Maybe I'm a
special case, but from reading these newsgroups, we articles, etc.,
etc., I don't think I am.
Paying for Windows is worth it if you really like the library of free
and low-cost software for it. I just find Linux's to rival it.
Windows enables working efficiently and saves time. Linux devours time attempting to perform the same tasks Windows does. Linux has broader
flexibility as a server than Windows. Linux used as a server results in admins attempting to defeat hardware RAID fault tolerance with wacky
file systems. Both are far superior to Apple.
Extended Security Updates (ESU) program for Windows 10 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/extended-security- updates
On 29/06/2025 6:10 am, T wrote:
<Snip>
And do not, do not, do not do ANY on line banking with Windows.
Why do you make this recommendation, T??
And do not, do not, do not do ANY on line banking
with Windows.
If you're really advertising Linux, bravo.
On 7/1/25 6:19 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 29/06/2025 6:10 am, T wrote:
<Snip>
And do not, do not, do not do ANY on line banking with Windows.
Why do you make this recommendation, T??
The things I see in happening to my customers.
The last customer I helped clean up after
a banking computerize got embezzlement
for over 40,000.00 U$D. She was using
Windows 10. And she was not the only
person I had to clean up after.
Keep in mind that it is up to the banks
discretion whether or not to make you
whole after you get embezzled. "But the
eMail seemed so real!"
Windows is too easy to compromise. It is
security Swiss cheese.
If you are going to do on-line banking
I recommend you use Fedora with SELinux
enabled.
Or in my case -- I've seen too much -- I do
all my banking at the bank.
Or in my case -- I've seen too much -- I do
all my banking at the bank.
T wrote:
[snip]
Or in my case -- I've seen too much -- I do all my banking at the bank.You're lucky to have a physical bank near enough. Here in the UK the
banks have abdicated their responsibility to serve customers in person,
so physical branches now only exist in major towns. A typical visit to
the bank takes half-a-day and involves perhaps a 50 mile round trip.
My rule is - any communication claiming to be from my bank, be it email, phone, or a letter in the post - is probably a fraud attempt.
Your
response should always be to visit the bank in person. If you go fairly frequently they may get to recognise you and welcome you by name!
On Thu, 7/3/2025 2:48 AM, T wrote:
On 7/1/25 6:19 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 29/06/2025 6:10 am, T wrote:
<Snip>
And do not, do not, do not do ANY on line banking with Windows.
Why do you make this recommendation, T??
The things I see in happening to my customers.
The last customer I helped clean up after
a banking computerize got embezzlement
for over 40,000.00 U$D. She was using
Windows 10. And she was not the only
person I had to clean up after.
Keep in mind that it is up to the banks
discretion whether or not to make you
whole after you get embezzled. "But the
eMail seemed so real!"
Windows is too easy to compromise. It is
security Swiss cheese.
If you are going to do on-line banking
I recommend you use Fedora with SELinux
enabled.
Or in my case -- I've seen too much -- I do
all my banking at the bank.
When you ran the attachment on Virustotal, what
sort of detection did it yield ?
I only want this info as a source of an example
for the next time.
The detection won't tell you anything particularly,
except as a starting point for classification.
1) Was it patch-able (if patched in time) ?
2) Was it heuristically detectable (with sufficiently
good third-party AV) ?
Was it going to be as much of an issue for an unsupported
OS after October 2025, as for a supported OS after Oct 2025 ?
*******
I don't recommend you do online banking. Period.
The defenders are losing this battle. There are no winners.
Paul
On 7/3/25 12:13 AM, Paul wrote:
On Thu, 7/3/2025 2:48 AM, T wrote:
On 7/1/25 6:19 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 29/06/2025 6:10 am, T wrote:
<Snip>
And do not, do not, do not do ANY on line banking with Windows.
Why do you make this recommendation, T??
The things I see in happening to my customers.
The last customer I helped clean up after
a banking computerize got embezzlement
for over 40,000.00 U$D. She was using
Windows 10. And she was not the only
person I had to clean up after.
Keep in mind that it is up to the banks
discretion whether or not to make you
whole after you get embezzled. "But the
eMail seemed so real!"
Windows is too easy to compromise. It is
security Swiss cheese.
If you are going to do on-line banking
I recommend you use Fedora with SELinux
enabled.
Or in my case -- I've seen too much -- I do
all my banking at the bank.
When you ran the attachment on Virustotal, what
sort of detection did it yield ?
I only want this info as a source of an example
for the next time.
The detection won't tell you anything particularly,
except as a starting point for classification.
1) Was it patch-able (if patched in time) ?
2) Was it heuristically detectable (with sufficiently
good third-party AV) ?
Was it going to be as much of an issue for an unsupported
OS after October 2025, as for a supported OS after Oct 2025 ?
*******
I don't recommend you do online banking. Period.
The defenders are losing this battle. There are no winners.
Paul
I find out "after" the damage has been done and the
customer wants things put back together. I will
not reuse a previously infected windows machine
without doing a dd /dev/zero on the drive and
reinstalling from scratch. Anti viruses are
not perfect.
T wrote on 7/3/2025 5:52 PM:
I find out "after" the damage has been done and the
customer wants things put back together. I will
not reuse a previously infected windows machine
without doing a dd /dev/zero on the drive and
reinstalling from scratch. Anti viruses are
not perfect.
Sounds reasonable, but wouldn't it be best to physically destroy the drive and use a new, pristine replacement going forward? In fact, shouldn't any component capable of storing data be replaced?
I'm more worried about the properties of the UEFI on my
machines, than anything else. That's the weak point.
The BIOS chip is 32MB in size, leaving lots of room
for the storing of pests.
On Thu, 3 Jul 2025 08:07:10 +0100, Graham J wrote:
T wrote:
[snip]
Or in my case -- I've seen too much -- I do all my banking at the bank.You're lucky to have a physical bank near enough. Here in the UK the
banks have abdicated their responsibility to serve customers in person,
so physical branches now only exist in major towns. A typical visit to
the bank takes half-a-day and involves perhaps a 50 mile round trip.
My bank is within 2 miles. Last time I was there, I noticed there were
only 2 tellers. I think there used to be 8-10.
My rule is - any communication claiming to be from my bank, be it email,
phone, or a letter in the post - is probably a fraud attempt.
I got one of those recently. The bank name was spelled weirdly.
On Thu, 3 Jul 2025 05:09:33 +0200 (CEST), Dan wrote:
Windows enables working efficiently and saves time. Linux devours time
attempting to perform the same tasks Windows does.
What we find here is the opposite: Linux offers the tools to automate
common tasks, Windows forces you to jump through hoops. Open-source tools
are designed to empower you, not hold you back, while proprietary software
is designed to maximize the vendor’s revenue opportunity, by restricting features.
Look in particular at all the effort going into trying to figure out how
to run Windows 11 on hardware that Microsoft will not officially support.
candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 03:30 this Thursday (GMT):
On Thu, 3 Jul 2025 05:09:33 +0200 (CEST), Dan wrote:It's always going to be impossible (or at least way way more difficult)
Windows enables working efficiently and saves time. Linux devours time >>>> attempting to perform the same tasks Windows does.
What we find here is the opposite: Linux offers the tools to automate
common tasks, Windows forces you to jump through hoops. Open-source tools >>> are designed to empower you, not hold you back, while proprietary software >>> is designed to maximize the vendor’s revenue opportunity, by restricting >>> features.
Look in particular at all the effort going into trying to figure out how >>> to run Windows 11 on hardware that Microsoft will not officially support. >>
to automate a GUI.
Microsoft, through the widespread use of Windows 11 with "Copilot+"
turned on, has made it as easy as ordering around Copilot to load the
apps one wants loaded - being an AI slave master, and not compliant
with ethics on use of AI.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 508 |
| Nodes: | 16 (0 / 16) |
| Uptime: | 244:22:26 |
| Calls: | 9,988 |
| Calls today: | 6 |
| Files: | 13,836 |
| Messages: | 6,358,729 |
| Posted today: | 1 |
