The government recently announced detail:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/unlocking-local-water-done-well-new-water-service-delivery-models
It seems to me that the Government will require each council to move
their water services assets and operation to a dedicated CCO along the
same lines as Auckland Council and Watercare. Some councils may well
do this on a regional basis, particularly if there is an existing
regional council.
The government has established the New Zealand Local Government
Funding Agency Limited (LGFA) to assist these CCOs with access to
borrowed funding for long-term development. It should be noted that
it is the CCO that will incur the debt and my reading of this press
release is that the lending limit of up to 500% of revenues references
water rates income earned by the CCO.
Auckland Council already meets the requirements, other councils will
have to form a water CCO and set water rates that go to said CCO.
Either way, water assets, revenue and expenses are ring fenced in a
dedicated CCO as is debt that is related to water assets. If a CCO
borrows from LGFA there will be no direct impact to those who pay
rates to the owning council, but there may need to be raised charges
for water services.
This is a vastly better approach than the reforms enacted by the last
Labour government and since repealed. However some councils will
inevitably face major change when moving to a water CCO, particularly
if they don't meter water usage so cannot charge for measured
consumption. However this is a challenge they must face - and those
councils who have good water infrastructure will be able to move to
the water CCO model with little impact to ratepayers.
The government recently announced detail:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/unlocking-local-water-done-well-new-water-service-delivery-models
It seems to me that the Government will require each council to move
their water services assets and operation to a dedicated CCO along the
same lines as Auckland Council and Watercare. Some councils may well
do this on a regional basis, particularly if there is an existing
regional council.
The government has established the New Zealand Local Government
Funding Agency Limited (LGFA) to assist these CCOs with access to
borrowed funding for long-term development. It should be noted that
it is the CCO that will incur the debt and my reading of this press
release is that the lending limit of up to 500% of revenues references
water rates income earned by the CCO.
Auckland Council already meets the requirements, other councils will
have to form a water CCO and set water rates that go to said CCO.
Either way, water assets, revenue and expenses are ring fenced in a
dedicated CCO as is debt that is related to water assets. If a CCO
borrows from LGFA there will be no direct impact to those who pay
rates to the owning council, but there may need to be raised charges
for water services.
This is a vastly better approach than the reforms enacted by the last
Labour government and since repealed. However some councils will
inevitably face major change when moving to a water CCO, particularly
if they don't meter water usage so cannot charge for measured
consumption. However this is a challenge they must face - and those
councils who have good water infrastructure will be able to move to
the water CCO model with little impact to ratepayers.
On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 15:25:11 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
The government recently announced detail:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/unlocking-local-water-done-well-new-water-service-delivery-models
It seems to me that the Government will require each council to move
their water services assets and operation to a dedicated CCO along the
same lines as Auckland Council and Watercare. Some councils may well
do this on a regional basis, particularly if there is an existing
regional council.
The government has established the New Zealand Local Government
Funding Agency Limited (LGFA) to assist these CCOs with access to
borrowed funding for long-term development. It should be noted that
it is the CCO that will incur the debt and my reading of this press
release is that the lending limit of up to 500% of revenues references >>water rates income earned by the CCO.
Auckland Council already meets the requirements, other councils will
have to form a water CCO and set water rates that go to said CCO.
Either way, water assets, revenue and expenses are ring fenced in a >>dedicated CCO as is debt that is related to water assets. If a CCO
borrows from LGFA there will be no direct impact to those who pay
rates to the owning council, but there may need to be raised charges
for water services.
This is a vastly better approach than the reforms enacted by the last >>Labour government and since repealed. However some councils will >>inevitably face major change when moving to a water CCO, particularly
if they don't meter water usage so cannot charge for measured
consumption. However this is a challenge they must face - and those >>councils who have good water infrastructure will be able to move to
the water CCO model with little impact to ratepayers.
Many do not believe it is a better approach; it is likely to hit those
that are low to average income earners hardest as rates and water
costs are likely to rise significantly.
If there are no changes to
rates the only way of repaying the loans is through water charges -
and the government is anticipating that for some borrowing will need
to be up to 5 times the level of current rates - and that will need to
be repaid with interest.
Lending terms are not yet negotiated, but
the increase in cost through water charges each year may well need to
average between 50% and 100% of current rates. That will be very
difficult for more than half our population to pay.
On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 22:15:36 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 15:25:11 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:
The government recently announced detail:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/unlocking-local-water-done-well-new-water-service-delivery-models
It seems to me that the Government will require each council to move >>>their water services assets and operation to a dedicated CCO along the >>>same lines as Auckland Council and Watercare. Some councils may well
do this on a regional basis, particularly if there is an existing >>>regional council.
The government has established the New Zealand Local Government
Funding Agency Limited (LGFA) to assist these CCOs with access to >>>borrowed funding for long-term development. It should be noted that
it is the CCO that will incur the debt and my reading of this press >>>release is that the lending limit of up to 500% of revenues references >>>water rates income earned by the CCO.
Auckland Council already meets the requirements, other councils will
have to form a water CCO and set water rates that go to said CCO.
Either way, water assets, revenue and expenses are ring fenced in a >>>dedicated CCO as is debt that is related to water assets. If a CCO >>>borrows from LGFA there will be no direct impact to those who pay
rates to the owning council, but there may need to be raised charges
for water services.
This is a vastly better approach than the reforms enacted by the last >>>Labour government and since repealed. However some councils will >>>inevitably face major change when moving to a water CCO, particularly
if they don't meter water usage so cannot charge for measured >>>consumption. However this is a challenge they must face - and those >>>councils who have good water infrastructure will be able to move to
the water CCO model with little impact to ratepayers.
Many do not believe it is a better approach; it is likely to hit those
that are low to average income earners hardest as rates and water
costs are likely to rise significantly.
That is the sort of meaningless conjecture you make when Labour and
the Greens are the Opposition. Yes, those on low incomes are hit
hardest but that applies to paying for all life necessities so is a
given.
Central government is also elected, and many believe that theIf there are no changes to
rates the only way of repaying the loans is through water charges -
Correct - and as it should be.
and the government is anticipating that for some borrowing will need
to be up to 5 times the level of current rates - and that will need to
be repaid with interest.
Correct. What a wonderful concept - the cost is borne by those who
use it. When I was a Wellington ratepayer, water was not metered, so >Wellingtonians will need to pay for water meters to be installed or
continue to pay flat-rate water charges.
Lending terms are not yet negotiated, but
the increase in cost through water charges each year may well need to >>average between 50% and 100% of current rates. That will be very
difficult for more than half our population to pay.
That is pure political rhetoric - unless you can cite a reputable
source of that conjecture.
It is inevitable that one way or another we will pay more for water >availability, but at least we will now be paying through our local
council, ultimately controlled by elected representatives. Those that
do not receive water services (ie are not on town supply water or
reticulated waste and storm water services) will not be forced to
subsidise water users through taxpayer-funded water services.
On 2024-08-11, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
The government recently announced detail:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/unlocking-local-water-done-well-new-water-service-delivery-models
It seems to me that the Government will require each council to move
their water services assets and operation to a dedicated CCO along the
same lines as Auckland Council and Watercare. Some councils may well
do this on a regional basis, particularly if there is an existing
regional council.
The government has established the New Zealand Local Government
Funding Agency Limited (LGFA) to assist these CCOs with access to
borrowed funding for long-term development. It should be noted that
it is the CCO that will incur the debt and my reading of this press
release is that the lending limit of up to 500% of revenues references
water rates income earned by the CCO.
This seems to be a development of the days gone past when the Councils could >and did borrow with permission from the Government. Small towns needed to
set up a sewerage scheme and loan money was used for this. The loan was paid >back over the life of the scheme.
The CCO is going to be the gatekeeper, the checks and balance of the loans >and there is a limit. The CCO is basically the bank in this situation.No, that would be the LGFA
The important point here is that the Councils can decide what to do and are >accountable to the people. Something that 3 waters was unlikely to do.Many people regard Councils as being _less_ accountable than central government.
Water meters are almost inevitable - they have been introduced in some
Auckland Council already meets the requirements, other councils will
have to form a water CCO and set water rates that go to said CCO.
Either way, water assets, revenue and expenses are ring fenced in a
dedicated CCO as is debt that is related to water assets. If a CCO
borrows from LGFA there will be no direct impact to those who pay
rates to the owning council, but there may need to be raised charges
for water services.
This is a vastly better approach than the reforms enacted by the last
Labour government and since repealed. However some councils will
inevitably face major change when moving to a water CCO, particularly
if they don't meter water usage so cannot charge for measured
consumption. However this is a challenge they must face - and those
councils who have good water infrastructure will be able to move to
the water CCO model with little impact to ratepayers.
On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 09:32:36 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 22:15:36 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 15:25:11 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:
The government recently announced detail:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/unlocking-local-water-done-well-new-water-service-delivery-models
It seems to me that the Government will require each council to move >>>>their water services assets and operation to a dedicated CCO along the >>>>same lines as Auckland Council and Watercare. Some councils may well >>>>do this on a regional basis, particularly if there is an existing >>>>regional council.
The government has established the New Zealand Local Government
Funding Agency Limited (LGFA) to assist these CCOs with access to >>>>borrowed funding for long-term development. It should be noted that
it is the CCO that will incur the debt and my reading of this press >>>>release is that the lending limit of up to 500% of revenues references >>>>water rates income earned by the CCO.
Auckland Council already meets the requirements, other councils will >>>>have to form a water CCO and set water rates that go to said CCO. >>>>Either way, water assets, revenue and expenses are ring fenced in a >>>>dedicated CCO as is debt that is related to water assets. If a CCO >>>>borrows from LGFA there will be no direct impact to those who pay
rates to the owning council, but there may need to be raised charges >>>>for water services.
This is a vastly better approach than the reforms enacted by the last >>>>Labour government and since repealed. However some councils will >>>>inevitably face major change when moving to a water CCO, particularly >>>>if they don't meter water usage so cannot charge for measured >>>>consumption. However this is a challenge they must face - and those >>>>councils who have good water infrastructure will be able to move to
the water CCO model with little impact to ratepayers.
Many do not believe it is a better approach; it is likely to hit those >>>that are low to average income earners hardest as rates and water
costs are likely to rise significantly.
That is the sort of meaningless conjecture you make when Labour and
the Greens are the Opposition. Yes, those on low incomes are hit
hardest but that applies to paying for all life necessities so is a
given.
There are options, Crash. The point I was making is that this is a
move away from progressive income tax to user-pays, making little
difference to the wealthy, but pushing many low paid and beneficiaries >further into poverty.
The government has said that a council may borrow up to 5 times isCite please. In the press release I cited in my original post, It was
current rates
- and given recent increases, that amounts to a lot of
money for many Councils, but the Government clearly believes that they
may need that capacity to borrow. Whatever they do borrow at this
stage is to bring 3-water systems up to acceptable standards, and
Councils will want that money repaid as quickly as possible - they
will have other projects to finance such as local roads,
sub-divisions, Council properties etc. So it is possible that they
will want that money repaid over say 10 years. That may mean that
they need to increase rates by 50% for this work alone to keep their
finances under control. That will of course flow directly through to
rents, and hence to accommodation assistance required by the poorest
tenants.
Central government is also elected, and many believe that the
If there are no changes to
rates the only way of repaying the loans is through water charges -
Correct - and as it should be.
and the government is anticipating that for some borrowing will need
to be up to 5 times the level of current rates - and that will need to
be repaid with interest.
Correct. What a wonderful concept - the cost is borne by those who
use it. When I was a Wellington ratepayer, water was not metered, so >>Wellingtonians will need to pay for water meters to be installed or >>continue to pay flat-rate water charges.
Lending terms are not yet negotiated, but
the increase in cost through water charges each year may well need to >>>average between 50% and 100% of current rates. That will be very >>>difficult for more than half our population to pay.
That is pure political rhetoric - unless you can cite a reputable
source of that conjecture.
It is inevitable that one way or another we will pay more for water >>availability, but at least we will now be paying through our local
council, ultimately controlled by elected representatives. Those that
do not receive water services (ie are not on town supply water or >>reticulated waste and storm water services) will not be forced to
subsidise water users through taxpayer-funded water services.
electorate for the NZ Government is vastly better informed than the >electorates for individual Councils. Central government is also more >experienced in managing large infra-structure projects - do you
believe that the Councilors or Council Officers in your local area are
as competent?
Still, there are plenty of consultants available to help
at $500 per hour . . .
We have also seen just how much control local authorities really have
when their only power is to appoint Directors . . .
On 2024-08-11, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
The government recently announced detail:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/unlocking-local-water-done-well-new-water-service-delivery-models
It seems to me that the Government will require each council to move
their water services assets and operation to a dedicated CCO along the
same lines as Auckland Council and Watercare. Some councils may well
do this on a regional basis, particularly if there is an existing
regional council.
The government has established the New Zealand Local Government
Funding Agency Limited (LGFA) to assist these CCOs with access to
borrowed funding for long-term development. It should be noted that
it is the CCO that will incur the debt and my reading of this press
release is that the lending limit of up to 500% of revenues references
water rates income earned by the CCO.
This seems to be a development of the days gone past when the Councils could >and did borrow with permission from the Government. Small towns needed to
set up a sewerage scheme and loan money was used for this. The loan was paid >back over the life of the scheme.
The CCO is going to be the gatekeeper, the checks and balance of the loans >and there is a limit. The CCO is basically the bank in this situation.
The important point here is that the Councils can decide what to do and are >accountable to the people. Something that 3 waters was unlikely to do.
Auckland Council already meets the requirements, other councils will
have to form a water CCO and set water rates that go to said CCO.
Either way, water assets, revenue and expenses are ring fenced in a
dedicated CCO as is debt that is related to water assets. If a CCO
borrows from LGFA there will be no direct impact to those who pay
rates to the owning council, but there may need to be raised charges
for water services.
This is a vastly better approach than the reforms enacted by the last
Labour government and since repealed. However some councils will
inevitably face major change when moving to a water CCO, particularly
if they don't meter water usage so cannot charge for measured
consumption. However this is a challenge they must face - and those
councils who have good water infrastructure will be able to move to
the water CCO model with little impact to ratepayers.
On 11 Aug 2024 22:07:57 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Bullshit, It was signalled before the election so we had the opportunity to vote for it or not in effect.
On 2024-08-11, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
The government recently announced detail:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/unlocking-local-water-done-well-new-water-service-delivery-models
It seems to me that the Government will require each council to move
their water services assets and operation to a dedicated CCO along the
same lines as Auckland Council and Watercare. Some councils may well
do this on a regional basis, particularly if there is an existing
regional council.
The government has established the New Zealand Local Government
Funding Agency Limited (LGFA) to assist these CCOs with access to
borrowed funding for long-term development. It should be noted that
it is the CCO that will incur the debt and my reading of this press
release is that the lending limit of up to 500% of revenues references
water rates income earned by the CCO.
This seems to be a development of the days gone past when the Councils could >>and did borrow with permission from the Government. Small towns needed to >>set up a sewerage scheme and loan money was used for this. The loan was paid >>back over the life of the scheme.
Local Authorities bonds typically paid from 0.25 to 0.5% more than
government stock - and when things went wrong government still had to
step in to bail them out. Borrowing by government and on-lending to
local authorities replaced direct borrowing by local authorities, and
as far as I am aware that still happens.
No, that would be the LGFA
The CCO is going to be the gatekeeper, the checks and balance of the loans >>and there is a limit. The CCO is basically the bank in this situation.
Many people regard Councils as being _less_ accountable than central >government.
The important point here is that the Councils can decide what to do and are >>accountable to the people. Something that 3 waters was unlikely to do.
Water meters are almost inevitable - they have been introduced in some >places, and they will ensure that commercial use of water can be >appropriately charged. Fragmenting the water system is however not >necessarily the best way to manage supply of water; it is a major
Auckland Council already meets the requirements, other councils will
have to form a water CCO and set water rates that go to said CCO.
Either way, water assets, revenue and expenses are ring fenced in a
dedicated CCO as is debt that is related to water assets. If a CCO
borrows from LGFA there will be no direct impact to those who pay
rates to the owning council, but there may need to be raised charges
for water services.
This is a vastly better approach than the reforms enacted by the last
Labour government and since repealed. However some councils will
inevitably face major change when moving to a water CCO, particularly
if they don't meter water usage so cannot charge for measured
consumption. However this is a challenge they must face - and those
councils who have good water infrastructure will be able to move to
the water CCO model with little impact to ratepayers.
change that has had little discussion or consultation from this
government.
On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 15:25:11 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>There is no increase in cost- That is a lie.
wrote:
The government recently announced detail:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/unlocking-local-water-done-well-new-water-service-delivery-models
It seems to me that the Government will require each council to move
their water services assets and operation to a dedicated CCO along the
same lines as Auckland Council and Watercare. Some councils may well
do this on a regional basis, particularly if there is an existing
regional council.
The government has established the New Zealand Local Government
Funding Agency Limited (LGFA) to assist these CCOs with access to
borrowed funding for long-term development. It should be noted that
it is the CCO that will incur the debt and my reading of this press
release is that the lending limit of up to 500% of revenues references >>water rates income earned by the CCO.
Auckland Council already meets the requirements, other councils will
have to form a water CCO and set water rates that go to said CCO.
Either way, water assets, revenue and expenses are ring fenced in a >>dedicated CCO as is debt that is related to water assets. If a CCO
borrows from LGFA there will be no direct impact to those who pay
rates to the owning council, but there may need to be raised charges
for water services.
This is a vastly better approach than the reforms enacted by the last >>Labour government and since repealed. However some councils will >>inevitably face major change when moving to a water CCO, particularly
if they don't meter water usage so cannot charge for measured
consumption. However this is a challenge they must face - and those >>councils who have good water infrastructure will be able to move to
the water CCO model with little impact to ratepayers.
Many do not believe it is a better approach; it is likely to hit those
that are low to average income earners hardest as rates and water
costs are likely to rise significantly. If there are no changes to
rates the only way of repaying the loans is through water charges -
and the government is anticipating that for some borrowing will need
to be up to 5 times the level of current rates - and that will need to
be repaid with interest. Lending terms are not yet negotiated, but
the increase in cost through water charges each year may well need to
average between 50% and 100% of current rates. That will be very
difficult for more than half our population to pay.
Water meters are almost inevitable - they have been introduced in some places, and they will ensure that commercial use of water can be appropriately charged.
On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 15:25:11 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
The government recently announced detail:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/unlocking-local-water-done-well-new-water-service-delivery-models
It seems to me that the Government will require each council to move
their water services assets and operation to a dedicated CCO along the
same lines as Auckland Council and Watercare. Some councils may well
do this on a regional basis, particularly if there is an existing
regional council.
The government has established the New Zealand Local Government
Funding Agency Limited (LGFA) to assist these CCOs with access to
borrowed funding for long-term development. It should be noted that
it is the CCO that will incur the debt and my reading of this press
release is that the lending limit of up to 500% of revenues references >>water rates income earned by the CCO.
Auckland Council already meets the requirements, other councils will
have to form a water CCO and set water rates that go to said CCO.
Either way, water assets, revenue and expenses are ring fenced in a >>dedicated CCO as is debt that is related to water assets. If a CCO
borrows from LGFA there will be no direct impact to those who pay
rates to the owning council, but there may need to be raised charges
for water services.
This is a vastly better approach than the reforms enacted by the last >>Labour government and since repealed. However some councils will >>inevitably face major change when moving to a water CCO, particularly
if they don't meter water usage so cannot charge for measured
consumption. However this is a challenge they must face - and those >>councils who have good water infrastructure will be able to move to
the water CCO model with little impact to ratepayers.
Many do not believe it is a better approach; it is likely to hit those
that are low to average income earners hardest as rates and water
costs are likely to rise significantly.
If there are no changes to
rates the only way of repaying the loans is through water charges -
and the government is anticipating that for some borrowing will need
to be up to 5 times the level of current rates
- and that will need to
be repaid with interest. Lending terms are not yet negotiated, but
the increase in cost through water charges each year may well need to
average between 50% and 100% of current rates.
That will be very
difficult for more than half our population to pay.
On 2024-08-11, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:That must be why quite a few local Councils have increased rates this
On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 15:25:11 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
The government recently announced detail:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/unlocking-local-water-done-well-new-water-service-delivery-models
It seems to me that the Government will require each council to move >>>their water services assets and operation to a dedicated CCO along the >>>same lines as Auckland Council and Watercare. Some councils may well
do this on a regional basis, particularly if there is an existing >>>regional council.
The government has established the New Zealand Local Government
Funding Agency Limited (LGFA) to assist these CCOs with access to >>>borrowed funding for long-term development. It should be noted that
it is the CCO that will incur the debt and my reading of this press >>>release is that the lending limit of up to 500% of revenues references >>>water rates income earned by the CCO.
Auckland Council already meets the requirements, other councils will
have to form a water CCO and set water rates that go to said CCO.
Either way, water assets, revenue and expenses are ring fenced in a >>>dedicated CCO as is debt that is related to water assets. If a CCO >>>borrows from LGFA there will be no direct impact to those who pay
rates to the owning council, but there may need to be raised charges
for water services.
Sadly we will not see how those proposals would have worked out inThis is a vastly better approach than the reforms enacted by the last >>>Labour government and since repealed.
I haven't seen a reference to that change - what I did hear on theHowever some councils will
inevitably face major change when moving to a water CCO, particularly
if they don't meter water usage so cannot charge for measured >>>consumption. However this is a challenge they must face - and those >>>councils who have good water infrastructure will be able to move to
the water CCO model with little impact to ratepayers.
Many do not believe it is a better approach; it is likely to hit those
that are low to average income earners hardest as rates and water
costs are likely to rise significantly.
First off, it has been agreed that some improvement/upgrades are needed and >this is understood by most people that this will cost money. So the question >is how best to share the burden.
The amount of rates paid is based mostly on the value of you property. So if >the rates go up by x% it is the rich/wealthy people who pay more.
If there are no changes to
rates the only way of repaying the loans is through water charges -
and the government is anticipating that for some borrowing will need
to be up to 5 times the level of current rates
No it is 500% of the value of the water network infrastructure, whci the >Governmets considers to be doable over 30 repayment. Similar to house >mortgages.
Current rates - you do realise that they differ greatly around the- and that will need to
be repaid with interest. Lending terms are not yet negotiated, but
the increase in cost through water charges each year may well need to
average between 50% and 100% of current rates.
Which rates do you refer to here? The present water rates or the rates paid >for on the proptery?
Indeed, and as we are seeing the accountable elected representativesThat will be very
difficult for more than half our population to pay.
Let us remember that the repayment amounts will be overseen by accountable >elected representives.
On 13 Aug 2024 05:01:24 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2024-08-11, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:That must be why quite a few local Councils have increased rates this
On Sun, 11 Aug 2024 15:25:11 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
The government recently announced detail:
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/unlocking-local-water-done-well-new-water-service-delivery-models
It seems to me that the Government will require each council to move >>>>their water services assets and operation to a dedicated CCO along the >>>>same lines as Auckland Council and Watercare. Some councils may well >>>>do this on a regional basis, particularly if there is an existing >>>>regional council.
The government has established the New Zealand Local Government
Funding Agency Limited (LGFA) to assist these CCOs with access to >>>>borrowed funding for long-term development. It should be noted that
it is the CCO that will incur the debt and my reading of this press >>>>release is that the lending limit of up to 500% of revenues references >>>>water rates income earned by the CCO.
Auckland Council already meets the requirements, other councils will >>>>have to form a water CCO and set water rates that go to said CCO. >>>>Either way, water assets, revenue and expenses are ring fenced in a >>>>dedicated CCO as is debt that is related to water assets. If a CCO >>>>borrows from LGFA there will be no direct impact to those who pay
rates to the owning council, but there may need to be raised charges >>>>for water services.
year by anything up to around 15% more than previously . . .
Sadly we will not see how those proposals would have worked out inThis is a vastly better approach than the reforms enacted by the last >>>>Labour government and since repealed.
practice - they were essentially similar to the split between central >government and local government for other issues - local government
would look after local issues, government would look after the country
level issues - which for water could have been similar to electricity,
with the heavy work of major pipelines being looked after by
Government, and delivery from those major pipes the responsibility of
local government, with water treatment somewhere in between.
The current government spent $3Bn on handouts to landlords and would
rather your rates went up than fund even health, let alone water . . .
I haven't seen a reference to that change - what I did hear on theHowever some councils will
inevitably face major change when moving to a water CCO, particularly >>>>if they don't meter water usage so cannot charge for measured >>>>consumption. However this is a challenge they must face - and those >>>>councils who have good water infrastructure will be able to move to
the water CCO model with little impact to ratepayers.
Many do not believe it is a better approach; it is likely to hit those
that are low to average income earners hardest as rates and water
costs are likely to rise significantly.
First off, it has been agreed that some improvement/upgrades are needed and >>this is understood by most people that this will cost money. So the question >>is how best to share the burden.
The amount of rates paid is based mostly on the value of you property. So if >>the rates go up by x% it is the rich/wealthy people who pay more.
If there are no changes to
rates the only way of repaying the loans is through water charges -
and the government is anticipating that for some borrowing will need
to be up to 5 times the level of current rates
No it is 500% of the value of the water network infrastructure, whci the >>Governmets considers to be doable over 30 repayment. Similar to house >>mortgages.
early announcements was that Councils would be able to borrow up to 5
times their rates income. Lenders are not interested in the capital
value of unsaleable assets, they are interested in the capacity to pay
back the capital and interest.
Current rates - you do realise that they differ greatly around the
- and that will need to
be repaid with interest. Lending terms are not yet negotiated, but
the increase in cost through water charges each year may well need to
average between 50% and 100% of current rates.
Which rates do you refer to here? The present water rates or the rates paid >>for on the proptery?
country. Those in most trouble with water are those that have elected >Councilors who spouted the nonsense that low rates shows good
management - with those same people now of course changing their minds
. . .
Gross income from rates is not the same as disposable income to a
Council; lenders will in practice look to see how much is likely to be >available to service loans, but since many have demonstrated an
ability to significantly increase rates, it is quite a complex matter
of judgement
Indeed, and as we are seeing the accountable elected representatives
That will be very
difficult for more than half our population to pay.
Let us remember that the repayment amounts will be overseen by accountable >>elected representives.
that matter most are Ministers of the Crown. They will tell the local >government Councils (and their elected Councilors) what to do.
On Mon, 12 Aug 2024 11:48:35 +1200, Rich80105 wrote:
Water meters are almost inevitable - they have been introduced in some
places, and they will ensure that commercial use of water can be
appropriately charged.
Would not have been necessary, I think, if so much of our fresh water
supply hadn’t become so polluted.
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