On Sat, 24 Aug 2024, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
<usual BS>
So here in New Zealand we have businesses closing down, or stopping
some activities because the price of electricity has become too high.
At least part of that is because we have a market that is designed to maximise profit to shareholders of generating companies, rather than
just deliver electricity at the cheapest price possible that covers
the costs of production.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Negative-Power-Prices-Hit-Europe-as-Renewable-Energy-Floods-the-Grid.html
Now negative prices are of course newsworthy, even in Germany it does
not happen often, but the reality is that they have a more efficient
system than we do.
It is ironic that it was National that was behind the sell off to
their mates of shares in the electricity generation companies, should
now be back in power in time to see the real folly of their beliefs.
By putting electricity generation in the hands of a cartel they have
done the country a grave disservice - the level of profits (in which
the government has shared) has been well above the level anticipated
at the time the shares were sold, demonstrating that the National-led government of that time grossly undersold the value of the shares -
because they underestimated the value of a closed cartel being able to
gouge the market that they now dominate.
And now our new government is making similar mistakes with banking -
they are threatening to sell off part of Kiwibank, so that the cosy
group of Australian Banks can have another member of their club, and
gouge New Zealand customers even further - after all, why should the Australian owners care about New Zealand customers - they are there to maximise profits for their shareholders, and small markets are easier
to manipulate . . .
So here in New Zealand we have businesses closing down, or stopping
some activities because the price of electricity has become too high.
At least part of that is because we have a market that is designed to >maximise profit to shareholders of generating companies, rather than
just deliver electricity at the cheapest price possible that covers
the costs of production.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Negative-Power-Prices-Hit-Europe-as-Renewable-Energy-Floods-the-Grid.html
Now negative prices are of course newsworthy, even in Germany it does
not happen often, but the reality is that they have a more efficient
system than we do.
It is ironic that it was National that was behind the sell off to
their mates of shares in the electricity generation companies, should
now be back in power in time to see the real folly of their beliefs.
By putting electricity generation in the hands of a cartel they have
done the country a grave disservice - the level of profits (in which
the government has shared) has been well above the level anticipated
at the time the shares were sold, demonstrating that the National-led >government of that time grossly undersold the value of the shares -
because they underestimated the value of a closed cartel being able to
gouge the market that they now dominate.
And now our new government is making similar mistakes with banking -
they are threatening to sell off part of Kiwibank, so that the cosy
group of Australian Banks can have another member of their club, and
gouge New Zealand customers even further - after all, why should the >Australian owners care about New Zealand customers - they are there to >maximise profits for their shareholders, and small markets are easier
to manipulate . . .
So here in New Zealand we have businesses closing down, or stoppingThe same is true for the manufacture of shoes and baked beans and pharmaceuticals and just about everything else we consume. It is called capitalism and is practised by every single country in the world - capitalism is politically neutral and it works. What you propose is, of course, marxism and that has never worked and never can because it is fatally flawed.
some activities because the price of electricity has become too high.
At least part of that is because we have a market that is designed to >maximise profit to shareholders of generating companies, rather than
just deliver electricity at the cheapest price possible that covers
the costs of production.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Negative-Power-Prices-Hit-Europe-as-Renewable-Energy-Floods-the-Grid.html
Now negative prices are of course newsworthy, even in Germany it does
not happen often, but the reality is that they have a more efficient
system than we do.
It is ironic that it was National that was behind the sell off to
their mates of shares in the electricity generation companies, should
now be back in power in time to see the real folly of their beliefs.
By putting electricity generation in the hands of a cartel they have
done the country a grave disservice - the level of profits (in which
the government has shared) has been well above the level anticipated
at the time the shares were sold, demonstrating that the National-led >government of that time grossly undersold the value of the shares -
because they underestimated the value of a closed cartel being able to
gouge the market that they now dominate.
And now our new government is making similar mistakes with banking -
they are threatening to sell off part of Kiwibank, so that the cosy
group of Australian Banks can have another member of their club, and
gouge New Zealand customers even further - after all, why should the >Australian owners care about New Zealand customers - they are there to >maximise profits for their shareholders, and small markets are easier
to manipulate . . .
On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 10:14:56 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
So here in New Zealand we have businesses closing down, or stopping
some activities because the price of electricity has become too high.
Really? Cite please. I have seen reports that some are proposing to
close down but non have actually closed.
The Winstone mills, for example, are closing because they made a bad
business decision to buy electricity on the spot market and have been
caught out.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/21/the-power-and-the-story-are-electricity-prices-really-to-blame-for-mill-closures/
note the comments from the mercury CEO.
These are the facts that Rich will continue to ignore because it getsWhat facts have been ignored? Prices have risen faster than the
in the way of political rhetoric on electricity generation.
No you have not - by all means give a reference to a post when youAt least part of that is because we have a market that is designed to >>maximise profit to shareholders of generating companies, rather than
just deliver electricity at the cheapest price possible that covers
the costs of production.
I have posted a rebuttal of this rhetoric many times and don't propose
to bother with again.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Negative-Power-Prices-Hit-Europe-as-Renewable-Energy-Floods-the-Grid.html
Now negative prices are of course newsworthy, even in Germany it does
not happen often, but the reality is that they have a more efficient
system than we do.
It is ironic that it was National that was behind the sell off to
their mates of shares in the electricity generation companies, should
now be back in power in time to see the real folly of their beliefs.
By putting electricity generation in the hands of a cartel they have
done the country a grave disservice - the level of profits (in which
the government has shared) has been well above the level anticipated
at the time the shares were sold, demonstrating that the National-led >>government of that time grossly undersold the value of the shares -
because they underestimated the value of a closed cartel being able to >>gouge the market that they now dominate.
And now our new government is making similar mistakes with banking -
they are threatening to sell off part of Kiwibank, so that the cosy
group of Australian Banks can have another member of their club, and
gouge New Zealand customers even further - after all, why should the >>Australian owners care about New Zealand customers - they are there to >>maximise profits for their shareholders, and small markets are easier
to manipulate . . .
Completely pointless speculation Rich. You cannot cite any support of
any of this - it is a figment of your imagination to support your >anti-National rhetoric.
On 24 Aug 2024 02:00:31 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Democratic capitalism in action.
On 2024-08-23, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
So here in New Zealand we have businesses closing down, or stopping
some activities because the price of electricity has become too high.
At least part of that is because we have a market that is designed to
maximise profit to shareholders of generating companies, rather than
just deliver electricity at the cheapest price possible that covers
the costs of production.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Negative-Power-Prices-Hit-Europe-as-Renewable-Energy-Floods-the-Grid.html
Now negative prices are of course newsworthy, even in Germany it does
not happen often, but the reality is that they have a more efficient
system than we do.
If you read that article it says that there are some issues with the green >>power increasing.
The change in topic follows:
No change of topic - "Electricity Generation - there is a better way"
This usenet group is nz.general, so put those two together and you get
my take on the relevance of what has been possible in Germany with
what is happening here - they have some disappointed that they are not >getting paid for electricity their solar panels have generated - here
we have some people disappointed that there employer may go out of
business because electricity prices (even at lower than retail levels)
are too high to support the business - the money is going instead to >shareholders in the part privatise companies that are (by law) the
priority for the generating companies.
It is ironic that it was National that was behind the sell off to
their mates of shares in the electricity generation companies, should
now be back in power in time to see the real folly of their beliefs.
By putting electricity generation in the hands of a cartel they have
done the country a grave disservice - the level of profits (in which
the government has shared) has been well above the level anticipated
at the time the shares were sold, demonstrating that the National-led
government of that time grossly undersold the value of the shares -
because they underestimated the value of a closed cartel being able to
gouge the market that they now dominate.
And now our new government is making similar mistakes with banking -
they are threatening to sell off part of Kiwibank, so that the cosy
group of Australian Banks can have another member of their club, and
gouge New Zealand customers even further - after all, why should the
Australian owners care about New Zealand customers - they are there to
maximise profits for their shareholders, and small markets are easier
to manipulate . . .
On 2024-08-23, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
So here in New Zealand we have businesses closing down, or stopping
some activities because the price of electricity has become too high.
At least part of that is because we have a market that is designed to
maximise profit to shareholders of generating companies, rather than
just deliver electricity at the cheapest price possible that covers
the costs of production.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Negative-Power-Prices-Hit-Europe-as-Renewable-Energy-Floods-the-Grid.html
Now negative prices are of course newsworthy, even in Germany it does
not happen often, but the reality is that they have a more efficient
system than we do.
If you read that article it says that there are some issues with the green >power increasing.
The change in topic follows:
It is ironic that it was National that was behind the sell off to
their mates of shares in the electricity generation companies, should
now be back in power in time to see the real folly of their beliefs.
By putting electricity generation in the hands of a cartel they have
done the country a grave disservice - the level of profits (in which
the government has shared) has been well above the level anticipated
at the time the shares were sold, demonstrating that the National-led
government of that time grossly undersold the value of the shares -
because they underestimated the value of a closed cartel being able to
gouge the market that they now dominate.
And now our new government is making similar mistakes with banking -
they are threatening to sell off part of Kiwibank, so that the cosy
group of Australian Banks can have another member of their club, and
gouge New Zealand customers even further - after all, why should the
Australian owners care about New Zealand customers - they are there to
maximise profits for their shareholders, and small markets are easier
to manipulate . . .
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
So here in New Zealand we have businesses closing down, or stoppingThe same is true for the manufacture of shoes and baked beans and >pharmaceuticals and just about everything else we consume. It is called >capitalism and is practised by every single country in the world - capitalism >is politically neutral and it works. What you propose is, of course, marxism >and that has never worked and never can because it is fatally flawed.
some activities because the price of electricity has become too high.
At least part of that is because we have a market that is designed to >>maximise profit to shareholders of generating companies, rather than
just deliver electricity at the cheapest price possible that covers
the costs of production.
The rest of your post is equally nonsensical.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Negative-Power-Prices-Hit-Europe-as-Renewable-Energy-Floods-the-Grid.html
Now negative prices are of course newsworthy, even in Germany it does
not happen often, but the reality is that they have a more efficient
system than we do.
It is ironic that it was National that was behind the sell off to
their mates of shares in the electricity generation companies, should
now be back in power in time to see the real folly of their beliefs.
By putting electricity generation in the hands of a cartel they have
done the country a grave disservice - the level of profits (in which
the government has shared) has been well above the level anticipated
at the time the shares were sold, demonstrating that the National-led >>government of that time grossly undersold the value of the shares -
because they underestimated the value of a closed cartel being able to >>gouge the market that they now dominate.
And now our new government is making similar mistakes with banking -
they are threatening to sell off part of Kiwibank, so that the cosy
group of Australian Banks can have another member of their club, and
gouge New Zealand customers even further - after all, why should the >>Australian owners care about New Zealand customers - they are there to >>maximise profits for their shareholders, and small markets are easier
to manipulate . . .
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 24 Aug 2024 02:00:31 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Democratic capitalism in action.
On 2024-08-23, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
So here in New Zealand we have businesses closing down, or stopping
some activities because the price of electricity has become too high.
At least part of that is because we have a market that is designed to
maximise profit to shareholders of generating companies, rather than
just deliver electricity at the cheapest price possible that covers
the costs of production.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Negative-Power-Prices-Hit-Europe-as-Renewable-Energy-Floods-the-Grid.html
Now negative prices are of course newsworthy, even in Germany it does
not happen often, but the reality is that they have a more efficient
system than we do.
If you read that article it says that there are some issues with the green >>>power increasing.
The change in topic follows:
No change of topic - "Electricity Generation - there is a better way"
This usenet group is nz.general, so put those two together and you get
my take on the relevance of what has been possible in Germany with
what is happening here - they have some disappointed that they are not >>getting paid for electricity their solar panels have generated - here
we have some people disappointed that there employer may go out of
business because electricity prices (even at lower than retail levels)
are too high to support the business - the money is going instead to >>shareholders in the part privatise companies that are (by law) the
priority for the generating companies.
It is ironic that it was National that was behind the sell off to
their mates of shares in the electricity generation companies, should
now be back in power in time to see the real folly of their beliefs.
By putting electricity generation in the hands of a cartel they have
done the country a grave disservice - the level of profits (in which
the government has shared) has been well above the level anticipated
at the time the shares were sold, demonstrating that the National-led
government of that time grossly undersold the value of the shares -
because they underestimated the value of a closed cartel being able to >>>> gouge the market that they now dominate.
And now our new government is making similar mistakes with banking -
they are threatening to sell off part of Kiwibank, so that the cosy
group of Australian Banks can have another member of their club, and
gouge New Zealand customers even further - after all, why should the
Australian owners care about New Zealand customers - they are there to >>>> maximise profits for their shareholders, and small markets are easier
to manipulate . . .
On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 04:28:26 -0000 (UTC), TonyMore nonsense. Capitalism works, your nonsense does not and never will.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 24 Aug 2024 02:00:31 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Democratic capitalism in action.
On 2024-08-23, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
So here in New Zealand we have businesses closing down, or stopping
some activities because the price of electricity has become too high. >>>>> At least part of that is because we have a market that is designed to >>>>> maximise profit to shareholders of generating companies, rather than >>>>> just deliver electricity at the cheapest price possible that covers
the costs of production.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Negative-Power-Prices-Hit-Europe-as-Renewable-Energy-Floods-the-Grid.html
Now negative prices are of course newsworthy, even in Germany it does >>>>> not happen often, but the reality is that they have a more efficient >>>>> system than we do.
If you read that article it says that there are some issues with the green >>>>power increasing.
The change in topic follows:
No change of topic - "Electricity Generation - there is a better way" >>>This usenet group is nz.general, so put those two together and you get
my take on the relevance of what has been possible in Germany with
what is happening here - they have some disappointed that they are not >>>getting paid for electricity their solar panels have generated - here
we have some people disappointed that there employer may go out of >>>business because electricity prices (even at lower than retail levels) >>>are too high to support the business - the money is going instead to >>>shareholders in the part privatise companies that are (by law) the >>>priority for the generating companies.
Democratic? Hardly - they were sold off cheaply to big money,
including many individuals close to National. Certainly the low offer
price has been evident in the large gains those who had sufficient
money to buy have achieved since .
It is ironic that it was National that was behind the sell off to
their mates of shares in the electricity generation companies, should >>>>> now be back in power in time to see the real folly of their beliefs. >>>>> By putting electricity generation in the hands of a cartel they have >>>>> done the country a grave disservice - the level of profits (in which >>>>> the government has shared) has been well above the level anticipated >>>>> at the time the shares were sold, demonstrating that the National-led >>>>> government of that time grossly undersold the value of the shares -
because they underestimated the value of a closed cartel being able to >>>>> gouge the market that they now dominate.
And now our new government is making similar mistakes with banking - >>>>> they are threatening to sell off part of Kiwibank, so that the cosy
group of Australian Banks can have another member of their club, and >>>>> gouge New Zealand customers even further - after all, why should the >>>>> Australian owners care about New Zealand customers - they are there to >>>>> maximise profits for their shareholders, and small markets are easier >>>>> to manipulate . . .
On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 03:10:35 -0000 (UTC), TonyYou are so wrong that you actually believe that crap. So sad, but your ignorance is your refuge.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
So here in New Zealand we have businesses closing down, or stoppingThe same is true for the manufacture of shoes and baked beans and >>pharmaceuticals and just about everything else we consume. It is called >>capitalism and is practised by every single country in the world - capitalism >>is politically neutral and it works. What you propose is, of course, marxism >>and that has never worked and never can because it is fatally flawed.
some activities because the price of electricity has become too high.
At least part of that is because we have a market that is designed to >>>maximise profit to shareholders of generating companies, rather than
just deliver electricity at the cheapest price possible that covers
the costs of production.
The rest of your post is equally nonsensical.
There are some similarities, but electricity prices are governed by a
formula that sets prices based on input from the generators - in
effect there is little competition, and even less variation in the
product. This is indeed capitalism however - the directors of the
generating companies seek the maximum profit, but they do not
generally have worries about marketing other than the Teresa Gattung
type of marketing - making the pricing schemes sufficiently
complicated that consumers cannot really determine who will be the
cheapest for them - loyalty payments, free hours, etc - they make
little difference to total costs over a period, but help prevent
switching. I have posted before on the comparison with different
elevators with variable speeds "competing" with each other by moving
prices at different speeds, by appearing the cheapest at one point
only to move to most expensive in their turn, or hovering around the
middle for a period - all in the interests of pretending that they are
not, as a group, consistently enabling higher prices.
One of the great delights for the generators is of course based on >brinkmanship - they effectively take turns at the top or bottom, but
none really want to undertake projects for new generation - that can
take quite a bit of money for some years without any return - bad for >dividends; but if the market grows they will stabilise back to the
pack in time - and the icing on the cake is the general rise in
prices that they can justify when Huntly is fired up due to low hydro
lakes - that lifts prices for all of them.
So no Tony, it is nothing like shoes and baked beans etc.
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Negative-Power-Prices-Hit-Europe-as-Renewable-Energy-Floods-the-Grid.html
Now negative prices are of course newsworthy, even in Germany it does
not happen often, but the reality is that they have a more efficient >>>system than we do.
It is ironic that it was National that was behind the sell off to
their mates of shares in the electricity generation companies, should
now be back in power in time to see the real folly of their beliefs.
By putting electricity generation in the hands of a cartel they have
done the country a grave disservice - the level of profits (in which
the government has shared) has been well above the level anticipated
at the time the shares were sold, demonstrating that the National-led >>>government of that time grossly undersold the value of the shares - >>>because they underestimated the value of a closed cartel being able to >>>gouge the market that they now dominate.
And now our new government is making similar mistakes with banking -
they are threatening to sell off part of Kiwibank, so that the cosy
group of Australian Banks can have another member of their club, and >>>gouge New Zealand customers even further - after all, why should the >>>Australian owners care about New Zealand customers - they are there to >>>maximise profits for their shareholders, and small markets are easier
to manipulate . . .
On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 13:29:39 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 10:14:56 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
So here in New Zealand we have businesses closing down, or stopping
some activities because the price of electricity has become too high.
Really? Cite please. I have seen reports that some are proposing to
close down but non have actually closed.
The Winstone mills, for example, are closing because they made a bad >>business decision to buy electricity on the spot market and have been >>caught out.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/21/the-power-and-the-story-are-electricity-prices-really-to-blame-for-mill-closures/
note the comments from the mercury CEO.
Yes, he said: “The prices that we’ve charged them, for the fixed price
stuff, are within a very close range of what we have charged the
smelter. They don’t reflect spot prices at all.”
So yes they have been charged the spot price very recently when it >sky-rocketed, but read the whole article and you will see that the
real problem is the increasing price of electricity over a long
period, while other variable (such as sale prices) remained more
stable.
the spot price is what all prices are ultimately based on - subject of
course to smoothing mechanisms by each of the retailers. The reality
is that we have had a particularly severe scarcity position - in other
words generation was unable to meet user demand. That has been getting
worse of course for some time, but it has had the effect of
maintaining high levels of profit by the generating companies, helped
by significant delays in spending capital on new generation of any
kind.
What facts have been ignored? Prices have risen faster than the
These are the facts that Rich will continue to ignore because it gets
in the way of political rhetoric on electricity generation.
ability of some companies to live with, and that is most likely to
occur at a time of generation "scarcity" as the Mercury boss referred
to - At what point do you think the industry should have decided to
use those resource consents they have held for some time to actually
increase production?
No you have not - by all means give a reference to a post when you
At least part of that is because we have a market that is designed to >>>maximise profit to shareholders of generating companies, rather than
just deliver electricity at the cheapest price possible that covers
the costs of production.
I have posted a rebuttal of this rhetoric many times and don't propose
to bother with again.
think you did . . . .
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Negative-Power-Prices-Hit-Europe-as-Renewable-Energy-Floods-the-Grid.html
Now negative prices are of course newsworthy, even in Germany it does
not happen often, but the reality is that they have a more efficient >>>system than we do.
It is ironic that it was National that was behind the sell off to
their mates of shares in the electricity generation companies, should
now be back in power in time to see the real folly of their beliefs.
By putting electricity generation in the hands of a cartel they have
done the country a grave disservice - the level of profits (in which
the government has shared) has been well above the level anticipated
at the time the shares were sold, demonstrating that the National-led >>>government of that time grossly undersold the value of the shares - >>>because they underestimated the value of a closed cartel being able to >>>gouge the market that they now dominate.
And now our new government is making similar mistakes with banking -
they are threatening to sell off part of Kiwibank, so that the cosy
group of Australian Banks can have another member of their club, and >>>gouge New Zealand customers even further - after all, why should the >>>Australian owners care about New Zealand customers - they are there to >>>maximise profits for their shareholders, and small markets are easier
to manipulate . . .
Completely pointless speculation Rich. You cannot cite any support of
any of this - it is a figment of your imagination to support your >>anti-National rhetoric.
This has been a problem since it was first set up by the "Bradford
Reforms" - Sure that was under a National Government, but the obvious
ways of fixing it are as I have pointed out quite expensive for any >government, but it has now become evident that the greed of the part >privatised companies has become detrimental to the survival of New
Zealand businesses. We currently have an Act/NZFirst/National
Government - what are they proposing to do about it?
On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 16:09:53 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 13:29:39 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:Yet it is spot pricing that has increased and is the cause of
On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 10:14:56 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
So here in New Zealand we have businesses closing down, or stopping >>>>some activities because the price of electricity has become too high.
Really? Cite please. I have seen reports that some are proposing to >>>close down but non have actually closed.
The Winstone mills, for example, are closing because they made a bad >>>business decision to buy electricity on the spot market and have been >>>caught out.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/21/the-power-and-the-story-are-electricity-prices-really-to-blame-for-mill-closures/
note the comments from the mercury CEO.
Yes, he said: “The prices that we’ve charged them, for the fixed price >>stuff, are within a very close range of what we have charged the
smelter. They don’t reflect spot prices at all.”
Winstones problem. If Winstones had secured electricity supply
contracts at fixed pricing (as the Smelter has done) they would not be
as badly affected.
So yes they have been charged the spot price very recently when it >>sky-rocketed, but read the whole article and you will see that theQuotes from that article that give the lie to what you say above:
real problem is the increasing price of electricity over a long
period, while other variable (such as sale prices) remained more
stable.
"But Mercury chief executive Vince Hawksworth rejects blame for the
company’s difficulties"
"Look, I buy the fact that if you chose to be on the spot market,
these high energy prices are extremely stressful, and I worry about
the de-industrialisation of New Zealand, if that’s the case.
“But I would also say that many of our customers who are in similar
types of businesses have taken long-term contracts with us that look
through these short-term things."
While Winstones don't buy all their electricity from the Spot market, >Winstone |CEO Mike Ryan blames the spot market directly.
the spot price is what all prices are ultimately based on - subject of >>course to smoothing mechanisms by each of the retailers. The reality
is that we have had a particularly severe scarcity position - in other >>words generation was unable to meet user demand. That has been getting >>worse of course for some time, but it has had the effect of
maintaining high levels of profit by the generating companies, helped
by significant delays in spending capital on new generation of any
kind.
What facts have been ignored? Prices have risen faster than the
These are the facts that Rich will continue to ignore because it gets
in the way of political rhetoric on electricity generation.
ability of some companies to live with, and that is most likely to
occur at a time of generation "scarcity" as the Mercury boss referred
to - At what point do you think the industry should have decided to
use those resource consents they have held for some time to actually >>increase production?
No you have not - by all means give a reference to a post when you
At least part of that is because we have a market that is designed to >>>>maximise profit to shareholders of generating companies, rather than >>>>just deliver electricity at the cheapest price possible that covers
the costs of production.
I have posted a rebuttal of this rhetoric many times and don't propose
to bother with again.
think you did . . . .
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Negative-Power-Prices-Hit-Europe-as-Renewable-Energy-Floods-the-Grid.html
Now negative prices are of course newsworthy, even in Germany it does >>>>not happen often, but the reality is that they have a more efficient >>>>system than we do.
It is ironic that it was National that was behind the sell off to
their mates of shares in the electricity generation companies, should >>>>now be back in power in time to see the real folly of their beliefs.
By putting electricity generation in the hands of a cartel they have >>>>done the country a grave disservice - the level of profits (in which >>>>the government has shared) has been well above the level anticipated
at the time the shares were sold, demonstrating that the National-led >>>>government of that time grossly undersold the value of the shares - >>>>because they underestimated the value of a closed cartel being able to >>>>gouge the market that they now dominate.
And now our new government is making similar mistakes with banking - >>>>they are threatening to sell off part of Kiwibank, so that the cosy >>>>group of Australian Banks can have another member of their club, and >>>>gouge New Zealand customers even further - after all, why should the >>>>Australian owners care about New Zealand customers - they are there to >>>>maximise profits for their shareholders, and small markets are easier >>>>to manipulate . . .
Completely pointless speculation Rich. You cannot cite any support of >>>any of this - it is a figment of your imagination to support your >>>anti-National rhetoric.
This has been a problem since it was first set up by the "Bradford
Reforms" - Sure that was under a National Government, but the obvious
ways of fixing it are as I have pointed out quite expensive for any >>government, but it has now become evident that the greed of the part >>privatised companies has become detrimental to the survival of New
Zealand businesses. We currently have an Act/NZFirst/National
Government - what are they proposing to do about it?
Still no cite, when challenged.
If what you say is correct I would expect the Electricity Authority
and/or the Government (as a dominant player in ownership of
'gentailers' to take action. Since the reforms you are so disparaging
of, Labour Governments over 5 Parliamentary terms have done nothing
about addressing your concerns. Perhaps this is a reality you choose
to ignore that weakens your arguments.
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