• FWIW "Contact Form" for my website proved readily done

    From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 4 10:18:48 2023
    Hi all

    For what it's worth - I found putting a "contact me form" on my
    website (weldsmith.co.uk) surprisingly straightforward.

    This is for if you have a hosted website on a server.

    I got a websites expert to check it and they say "That's 'where it is'
    - the way to do it". Everything else which could be suggested is "bells-and-whistles" animations, sounds, etc. - totally superfluous to
    our technical-mind information-content-is-everything communications.

    Web search had me at https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18379238/send-email-with-php-from-html-form-on-submit-with-the-same-script
    and I copied-and-pasted the two files I needed from there.
    Slight simplifications and personal info the script needs, plus one
    more little file to "blank" anyone trying to look at the directory

    The HTML "forms" page the visitor "clicks on".
    Has the "onward" instruction to activate the "mail handler" script to
    take its submitted content when the visitor "Submit"'s the info...

    vvvvvvvv "contact.html" vvvvvvvv

    <!DOCTYPE html>

    <head>
    <title>Contact form</title>
    <!-- <link rel="stylesheet" href="/stylesheets/html_std.css" type="text/css"> --> <!-- if you use a style sheet... -->
    </head>
    <body>

    <h2>Contact me - send me a message</h2>


    I will be able to respond if you provide a valid your email address in
    the "Email" form field.

    It is permissible to include your phone number in the "Message".


    <form action="mail_handler.php" method="post">
    Your Name: <input type="text" name="submitter_name"><br>
    Your Email Address: <input type="text" name="email"><br>
    Message:<br><textarea rows="16" name="message" cols="64"></textarea><br>
    <input type="submit" name="submit" value="Submit">
    </form>

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    then the server-side page which handles what comes through that form.
    The "easy bit" is that what it is wanted to do here is so obvious and
    common that "PHP" the scripting language has a "mail()" function which
    does exactly this which is wanted.

    You only have to replace "MYNAME@MYDOMAIN.XYZ" with your real email
    address. No-one else can see it.

    vvvvvvvv "mail_handler.php" vvvvvvvv

    <?php
    if(isset($_POST['submit'])){
    $to = "MYNAME@MYDOMAIN.XYZ"; // this is your Email address
    $from = $_POST['email']; // this is the sender's Email address
    $name = $_POST['submitter_name'];
    $subject = "Form submission";
    $subject2 = "Copy of your form submission";
    $message = $first_name . " " . $last_name . " wrote the following:" . "\n\n" . $_POST['message'];
    $message2 = "Here is a copy of your message " . $first_name . "\n\n" . $_POST['message'];

    $headers = "From:" . $from;
    $headers2 = "From:" . $to;
    mail($to,$subject,$message,$headers);
    mail($from,$subject2,$message2,$headers2); // sends a copy of the message to the sender
    echo "Mail Sent. Thank you " . $name . ", I will contact you shortly.";
    // You can also use header('Location: thank_you.php'); to redirect to another page.
    // You cannot use header and echo together. It's one or the other.
    }


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Finally, a teeny bit of "housekeeping" - you prevent someone listing
    the directory, for what gain they might get, by putting in nothing
    more than an "index page" - the server always serves-up "index.html"
    if it's called to go to a directory and an "index.html" is there...

    vvvvvvvv "index.html" vvvvvvvv

    <html>

    <head>
    <title>Contact form page</title>
    </head>

    <body bgcolor=#FFFFFF>

    <br><br>

    <center>
    You want the
    <a href="contact.html">
    Contact Form

    </center>

    </body></html>

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    "Our" webpages are not going to show up much on "Google" searches.
    Not much linked-to; not the "hottest" sites on the Web, etc.
    So not much call for a "Contact Form" generated there.

    On the other hand...

    On forums like RCM, someone liking what they see in a web link to your
    site which you post here can make contact with you via an introductory
    message, with everything personal for you and them in a private
    message transfer.

    Thus, if I went on about
    "Ali MIG/GMAW welding with quality control"
    and you went to that page http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/welding/weld_qual/221128_alimig/221128_ali_mig_qualctrl.html
    and you thought "Wow! This if it worked would solve years of problems
    I've had!" you could "click" on the "contact me : <Contact Form>" to
    provide your email, phone number and an introductory message showing
    you have deep experience of Ali welding and are genuine.

    Then I could respond and a private communication path would be
    established.

    Hope this helps someone somewhere.
    Thanks for all the help over the decades.

    Regards,
    Rich Smith

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Richard Smith on Wed Jul 5 07:55:07 2023
    On 7/4/2023 2:18 AM, Richard Smith wrote:
    Hi all

    For what it's worth - I found putting a "contact me form" on my
    website (weldsmith.co.uk) surprisingly straightforward.



    I might suggest adding some captcha or spam defeat features to your
    contact form. (I haven't looked. Maybe you have.) There are companies
    that hunt down contact forms and use them to spam the web site inbox.

    I didn't go through all your code, but if you are using the default host
    side sendmail script there are ways to bypass the contact form and abuse
    your hosts sendmail program.

    I run a simple spam defeat question AND a captcha system on my two web
    contact forms and I still get some spam routed through them.


    Regards,
    Rich Smith

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Thu Jul 6 14:38:02 2023
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

    On 7/4/2023 2:18 AM, Richard Smith wrote:
    Hi all

    For what it's worth - I found putting a "contact me form" on my
    website (weldsmith.co.uk) surprisingly straightforward.



    I might suggest adding some captcha or spam defeat features to your
    contact form. (I haven't looked. Maybe you have.) There are
    companies that hunt down contact forms and use them to spam the web
    site inbox.

    I didn't go through all your code, but if you are using the default
    host side sendmail script there are ways to bypass the contact form
    and abuse your hosts sendmail program.

    I run a simple spam defeat question AND a captcha system on my two web contact forms and I still get some spam routed through them.


    Regards,
    Rich Smith

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not
    a real machinist


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com

    Bob, all

    Thanks so much for this.

    I actually have to make an embarrassing retraction of that "it was
    easy and checked as okay".

    Advice from another source had a very different tone.

    I've had to learn about "sanitizing" input, checking for plausibility,
    etc.
    In the course of which - the learning - I could see some bugs. Also,
    given the "spambots" finding it, *do not* auto-acknowledge
    "submissions".

    I've also put size checks in - longstops, but block attacks like
    giving a 4MB email address (!), etc.

    Thanks for the other hints.

    Thanks also for the hints about sendmail, using "captcha's", etc.

    Here's the PHP code for taking in the email address supplied by the
    HTML "forms" input box - using a lot of "ready-made" PHP functions.

    "
    $sf_from = filter_var(trim($_POST['email']), FILTER_SANITIZE_EMAIL);
    if(strlen($sf_from) > 64){
    echo "Use a briefer email addr";
    exit(0);
    }
    if (!filter_var($sf_from, FILTER_VALIDATE_EMAIL)) {
    echo("$sf_from is not a valid email address. You might be able to Browser-back, correct and re-submit");
    exit(0);
    }
    "

    Regards,
    Rich Smith

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Thu Jul 6 23:30:09 2023
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

    On 7/4/2023 2:18 AM, Richard Smith wrote:
    Hi all

    For what it's worth - I found putting a "contact me form" on my
    website (weldsmith.co.uk) surprisingly straightforward.



    I might suggest adding some captcha or spam defeat features to your
    contact form. (I haven't looked. Maybe you have.) There are
    companies that hunt down contact forms and use them to spam the web
    site inbox.

    I didn't go through all your code, but if you are using the default
    host side sendmail script there are ways to bypass the contact form
    and abuse your hosts sendmail program.

    I run a simple spam defeat question AND a captcha system on my two web contact forms and I still get some spam routed through them.


    Regards,
    Rich Smith

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not
    a real machinist



    Hello again Bob, everyone

    I’ve devised and incorporated a CAPTCHA
    (Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart) into my Contact Form.

    To be seen at
    http://weldsmith.co.uk/contactform/contact.html

    Happy days!

    I don't mind getting some messages if/while you test the script.

    Alternatively, I've created
    http://weldsmith.co.uk/contactformtest/contact.html
    where everything else is identical but I've
    * commented-out the one line which actually sends the message which
    has been assembled (ie. it doesn't send messages / use resources)
    * switched to a text-echo where the message would have sent (not HTML
    "Succesfully send" page)
    So you can try time-and-again to make the thing "crap-out" no problem
    at all... :-)

    Best wishes,
    Rich Smith

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 6 19:29:54 2023
    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lywmzcekr2.fsf@void.com...

    I’ve devised and incorporated a CAPTCHA
    (Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart) into my Contact Form.

    ------------------------------

    I entered "stabbing" but it told me to piss off.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 7 09:00:55 2023
    The hint of the correct response is supposed to be there when you get
    don't get it right first time.

    "They were pissing up my back..."

    A good mainly European-Jewish (?) one is
    "Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining"

    It is a bit of a joke. Probably not well-judged.

    British sense-of-humour often doesn't transfer well in optimistic
    upbeat North America. We have to be careful of that. My apologies.

    I will put a CAPTCHA where the answer is there for a human to recognise.

    Sorry - this is the effect of current circumstances on us.
    A few commentators from America sense that.
    The "news" is endless exactly on-message propaganda and headspaces are
    having a tough time.

    Best wishes,
    Rich Smith

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 7 09:33:17 2023
    I've replaced it with a captcha based on a nursery rhyme, where the
    answer sought is there to be recognised.
    Seen at
    http://weldsmith.co.uk/contactform/contact.html
    Best wishes

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 7 07:32:39 2023
    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly1qhk6rzm.fsf@void.com...

    I've replaced it with a captcha based on a nursery rhyme, where the
    answer sought is there to be recognised.
    Seen at
    http://weldsmith.co.uk/contactform/contact.html
    Best wishes

    ------------------------

    I didn't remember the rhyme and had to Google it, which an AI could do too.

    It's funny, I once memorized The Raven and the German poem Erlkoenig, but skipped past the simple things. I gave up on this Bavarian expletive: Himmiherrgotzaggramentzefixallelujamilextamarschscheissglumpfaregtz!!!

    I'm fairly well versed in British, Aussie, French, German and Yiddish slang from Brit TV, reading soldiers' and sailors' memoirs, and a German boss who
    had been in the Hitler Youth, then moved to New York and worked for Jews. He unloaded his stories on me as I was the only one who would listen. I learned that your two finger insult implied shooting an arrow from watching Buffy, whose writers enjoyed exploring and twisting language well beyond the norm
    for American TV, such as sarcastic humor in Latin and from cast member
    Anthony Stewart Head.

    So Gadzooks means God's Hooks, but what are they?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 7 14:08:26 2023
    Better not use "Himmiherrgotzaggramentzefixallelujamilextamarschscheissglumpfaregtz"
    as the CHAPTCHA response :-)

    The only immediate use for the "Contact Form" is to let folk on
    newsgroups establish contact via personal emails.

    I refreshed my google notification of my website and I do show up in
    search(es) on "plausible" searches for things I have an interest in,
    which I have written about.
    Which could be another reason for folk wanting to make contact.

    Thanks for all the leads of incredibly good reads.
    If I get settled and the rain is pouring down I must read them.
    The contemporaneous ones of the "engineers" on locomotives in the
    1880's/1890's would surely be amazing to read.

    Best wishes,
    Rich S

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Richard Smith on Fri Jul 7 09:14:42 2023
    Hopefully my test messages reached you well, however I disagree with
    your answer. Yes, Wikipedia (and other sources) draw an inference
    because the rhyme is associated with a sometimes used phrase in English language cultures, but there is not any indication of that actual state
    in the original text. There are two alternatively much more likely
    possible answers. I did detail also why either of those possibilities
    might also be equally incorrect. Unless one was there at the time there
    is no certainty that there is any actual correct answer. Just degrees
    of likelihood.




    On 7/6/2023 3:30 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
    Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:

    On 7/4/2023 2:18 AM, Richard Smith wrote:
    Hi all

    For what it's worth - I found putting a "contact me form" on my
    website (weldsmith.co.uk) surprisingly straightforward.



    I might suggest adding some captcha or spam defeat features to your
    contact form. (I haven't looked. Maybe you have.) There are
    companies that hunt down contact forms and use them to spam the web
    site inbox.

    I didn't go through all your code, but if you are using the default
    host side sendmail script there are ways to bypass the contact form
    and abuse your hosts sendmail program.

    I run a simple spam defeat question AND a captcha system on my two web
    contact forms and I still get some spam routed through them.


    Regards,
    Rich Smith

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not
    a real machinist



    Hello again Bob, everyone

    I’ve devised and incorporated a CAPTCHA
    (Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart) into my Contact Form.

    To be seen at
    http://weldsmith.co.uk/contactform/contact.html

    Happy days!

    I don't mind getting some messages if/while you test the script.

    Alternatively, I've created http://weldsmith.co.uk/contactformtest/contact.html
    where everything else is identical but I've
    * commented-out the one line which actually sends the message which
    has been assembled (ie. it doesn't send messages / use resources)
    * switched to a text-echo where the message would have sent (not HTML
    "Succesfully send" page)
    So you can try time-and-again to make the thing "crap-out" no problem
    at all... :-)

    Best wishes,
    Rich Smith

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Fri Jul 7 09:23:58 2023
    On 7/7/2023 4:32 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Richard Smith"  wrote in message news:ly1qhk6rzm.fsf@void.com...

    I've replaced it with a captcha based on a nursery rhyme, where the
    answer sought is there to be recognised.
    Seen at
    http://weldsmith.co.uk/contactform/contact.html
    Best wishes

    ------------------------

    I didn't remember the rhyme and had to Google it, which an AI could do too.

    It's funny, I once memorized The Raven

    In high school my drama club once spent a day going from class to class
    doing a dramatic reading of the Raven (memorized but long since
    forgotten now). I had terrible gas that day and didn't make it through
    a single recital without multiple eruptions. Some were silenced, but
    none failed to escape. At the exact end of one performance I let loose
    with one particularly loud and long lasting emphasis. Our instructor
    gave me the evil eye, and I responded by looking at her wide eyed and
    asking as innocently as I could muster, "I'm sorry. You didn't think my special affects added to the AIR of dread in the room?"

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Fri Jul 7 09:27:17 2023
    On 7/7/2023 9:14 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    Hopefully my test messages reached you well, however I disagree with
    your answer.  Yes, Wikipedia (and other sources) draw an inference
    because the rhyme is associated with a sometimes used phrase in English language cultures, but there is not any indication of that actual state
    in the original text.  There are two alternatively much more likely
    possible answers.  I did detail also why either of those possibilities
    might also be equally incorrect.  Unless one was there at the time there
    is no certainty that there is any actual correct answer.  Just degrees
    of likelihood.

    Having spent a little time pushing critters back from drift fences and
    off of roads I feel it was much more likely to have been startled by a
    rattle snake.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Fri Jul 7 09:15:22 2023
    On 7/6/2023 4:29 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Richard Smith"  wrote in message news:lywmzcekr2.fsf@void.com...

    I’ve devised and incorporated a CAPTCHA
    (Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans
    Apart)
    into my Contact Form.

    ------------------------------

    I entered "stabbing" but it told me to piss off.


    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Fri Jul 7 16:04:32 2023
    On 7/7/2023 3:49 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    Piss...
    ---------
    I suspect many programmers have resisted the strong temptation to add sarcastic responses for some user inputs. For wiseguys who responded to
    "Hit any key to continue" with Ctrl, Shift or Alt I redefined black as several bright colors in rapid succession to make the screen seem to
    explode like fireworks. It did continue though.

    On one machine I worked on the troubleshooting tree ended by giving the software manager's home phone number. He didn't know and was NOT happy
    about it.

    The VT100 control set allowed other users to read and write to your
    screen, so a gag was to search randomly for a character and then slowly
    slide it to the bottom, with the message that your terminal was getting
    tired and needed a rest. We learned a lot about programming by devising
    these stunts even if they weren't used.



    A month or so I got a bit annoyed with my (now ex) dentist for spamming
    my phone with text messages to review his business on Google. There was
    no OPT out or advertising/spam policy in any of his intake forms. I
    complained on his text notification system (for appointments) and he
    made the mistake of texting me back and then calling me from his
    personal cell phone to try and rationalize. I still haven't decided if
    I'll expose his contact info to the world yet or not.

    I did review his business since he asked.

    Two Stars - Seems to be okay dentist, but does in chair up sales to his
    captive audience, and then spams your phone. Does not appear to be any notification of information sharing, marketing or SPAM for non service purposes, nor is there an opt out on any of his intake forms.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 7 18:49:03 2023
    Piss...
    ---------
    I suspect many programmers have resisted the strong temptation to add
    sarcastic responses for some user inputs. For wiseguys who responded to "Hit any key to continue" with Ctrl, Shift or Alt I redefined black as several bright colors in rapid succession to make the screen seem to explode like fireworks. It did continue though.

    On one machine I worked on the troubleshooting tree ended by giving the software manager's home phone number. He didn't know and was NOT happy about it.

    The VT100 control set allowed other users to read and write to your screen,
    so a gag was to search randomly for a character and then slowly slide it to
    the bottom, with the message that your terminal was getting tired and needed
    a rest. We learned a lot about programming by devising these stunts even if they weren't used.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 7 19:14:56 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u8a5m0$1f246$1@dont-email.me...

    A month or so I got a bit annoyed with my (now ex) dentist for spamming
    my phone with text messages to review his business on Google. There was
    no OPT out or advertising/spam policy in any of his intake forms. I
    complained on his text notification system (for appointments) and he
    made the mistake of texting me back and then calling me from his
    personal cell phone to try and rationalize. I still haven't decided if
    I'll expose his contact info to the world yet or not.

    I did review his business since he asked.

    Two Stars - Seems to be okay dentist, but does in chair up sales to his
    captive audience, and then spams your phone. Does not appear to be any notification of information sharing, marketing or SPAM for non service purposes, nor is there an opt out on any of his intake forms.

    Bob La Londe

    ------------------

    I try very hard to remain on good terms with my dentist who is from a
    powerful family in a sometimes hostile country.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sat Jul 8 09:36:49 2023
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    I suspect many programmers have resisted the strong temptation to add sarcastic responses for some user inputs. For wiseguys who responded
    to "Hit any key to continue" with Ctrl, Shift or Alt I redefined black
    as several bright colors in rapid succession to make the screen seem
    to explode like fireworks. It did continue though.

    On one machine I worked on the troubleshooting tree ended by giving
    the software manager's home phone number. He didn't know and was NOT
    happy about it.

    The VT100 control set allowed other users to read and write to your
    screen, so a gag was to search randomly for a character and then
    slowly slide it to the bottom, with the message that your terminal was getting tired and needed a rest. We learned a lot about programming by devising these stunts even if they weren't used.

    Hi Jim, everyone

    That "mad moment" cost me a couple of hours.
    I thought of the nursery rhyme captcha but having just cycled home
    from Portreath in the sunset on the old mineral tramway, I had that
    "devilment" moment.
    It is a "sign of the times" and I am taking it as part of the
    current experience.

    My friend (female) came around and laughed when she saw how seriously
    I had taken it that I might have caused offence.
    Thanks for winding me up and "getting the penny to drop" :-)

    Best wishes,
    Rich S

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 8 08:10:28 2023
    Although not quite a fan of Monty Python or Rowan Atkinson, I really liked
    the absurdist humor in the WW1 episodes of Blackadder. The best of British
    TV plays on the PBS network here. My sister who travels tells me it's the
    only good part.

    Occasionally PBS runs shows from other countries. I have to play them back
    at half speed to understand the French or German.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sat Jul 8 07:26:07 2023
    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly5y6un6ji.fsf@void.com...

    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    I suspect many programmers have resisted the strong temptation to add sarcastic responses for some user inputs. For wiseguys who responded
    to "Hit any key to continue" with Ctrl, Shift or Alt I redefined black
    as several bright colors in rapid succession to make the screen seem
    to explode like fireworks. It did continue though.


    Hi Jim, everyone

    That "mad moment" cost me a couple of hours.
    I thought of the nursery rhyme captcha but having just cycled home
    from Portreath in the sunset on the old mineral tramway, I had that
    "devilment" moment.
    It is a "sign of the times" and I am taking it as part of the
    current experience.

    My friend (female) came around and laughed when she saw how seriously
    I had taken it that I might have caused offence.
    Thanks for winding me up and "getting the penny to drop" :-)

    Best wishes,
    Rich S
    --------------------

    Hey, I was an Army sergeant. You know things are serious when people DON'T
    wise off.

    This displays some of the everyday attitude I expect from the British: https://www.amazon.com/Bravo-Two-Zero-Harrowing-Special/dp/0440218802
    Opening it randomly:
    "We knew many of the spooks by name, having worked with them in the UK. 'Morning, slime', I called out to a familiar face.
    I got a mouthed word and a jerk of the wrist in return."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 8 08:59:00 2023
    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly5y6un6ji.fsf@void.com...

    ...having just cycled home
    from Portreath in the sunset on the old mineral tramway,

    ---------------------

    Do you know when tin mining in that area began? I was wondering to what
    extent it might have enabled the advance into the Bronze Age.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Richard Smith on Sat Jul 8 08:46:52 2023
    On 7/8/2023 1:36 AM, Richard Smith wrote:
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    I suspect many programmers have resisted the strong temptation to add
    sarcastic responses for some user inputs. For wiseguys who responded
    to "Hit any key to continue" with Ctrl, Shift or Alt I redefined black
    as several bright colors in rapid succession to make the screen seem
    to explode like fireworks. It did continue though.

    On one machine I worked on the troubleshooting tree ended by giving
    the software manager's home phone number. He didn't know and was NOT
    happy about it.

    The VT100 control set allowed other users to read and write to your
    screen, so a gag was to search randomly for a character and then
    slowly slide it to the bottom, with the message that your terminal was
    getting tired and needed a rest. We learned a lot about programming by
    devising these stunts even if they weren't used.

    Hi Jim, everyone

    That "mad moment" cost me a couple of hours.
    I thought of the nursery rhyme captcha but having just cycled home
    from Portreath in the sunset on the old mineral tramway, I had that "devilment" moment.
    It is a "sign of the times" and I am taking it as part of the
    current experience.

    My friend (female) came around and laughed when she saw how seriously
    I had taken it that I might have caused offence.
    Thanks for winding me up and "getting the penny to drop" :-)

    Best wishes,
    Rich S

    No offense. I was just disagreeing with you for the fun of it. I still
    think its more likely the little dog or the table ware were elated than
    the cow. There's nothing to indicate the cow wasn't just trying to get
    away from a snake.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    Proffessional Hack, Hobbyist, Wannabe, Shade Tree, Button Pushing, Not a
    real machinist


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 8 16:04:49 2023
    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:u8c0dc$1phqg$1@dont-email.me...

    No offense. I was just disagreeing with you for the fun of it. I still
    think its more likely the little dog or the table ware were elated than
    the cow. There's nothing to indicate the cow wasn't just trying to get
    away from a snake.

    ------------------
    As an AI test you could type a few words of your phrase into a search engine
    to see if it completes it.

    So what do people commonly know but don't discuss on line?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 9 06:48:09 2023
    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly5y6un6ji.fsf@void.com...

    ..."getting the penny to drop"...

    -------------------

    I had to look up that unfamiliar expression.

    Even the neighboring USA and Canada may not understand each other's lingo: https://www.businessinsider.com/slang-terms-canada-2018-4

    I've read that our nearly common pronunciation was Britain's from before the Industrial Revolution, when the rise of a new class of the rich and powerful caused imitation of their regional (east Midlands?) accent.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 9 17:18:45 2023
    "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:u8e39m$243s9$1@dont-email.me...

    https://www.businessinsider.com/slang-terms-canada-2018-4

    https://blog.lingoda.com/en/american-words-british-dont-understand/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sun Jul 9 23:37:41 2023
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly5y6un6ji.fsf@void.com...

    ...having just cycled home
    from Portreath in the sunset on the old mineral tramway,

    ---------------------

    Do you know when tin mining in that area began? I was wondering to
    what extent it might have enabled the advance into the Bronze Age.

    It is thought that getting tin in Britain is almost as old as all
    recounting of "civilisation".
    I think you are a much better historian than me.
    Cornish tin has been found across Europe and the Middle East which is
    proven by scientific measurements (? which? Isotopes? Impurities?) to
    be from Cornwall.
    It is speculated that Jesus (yes that poor sod whose parents came up
    with that cock-and-bull story to cover-up that they had been shagging
    behind the bicycle shed) might have come to The West Country of
    England for tin, given his Uncle had a ship. No evidence of, but a plausibility. Apparently the Celtic Cornish were known to be
    cosmopolitan in their outlook and traders were welcomed.
    Own observation - there seem to be a disproportion of caves which just
    so happen to align with a mineral lode. Notably by the sea shore.

    At one cove, if you swim out to it and go into this cave, their are
    copper stains at the back. Towanroath Vugga (seemingly a cave) - seen
    on at least one YouTube video - which is accessed from the beach at
    low tide far beneath the iconic Towanroath engine-house, aligns with a
    lode.

    These could have been mined in historic times say 2thousand or
    3thousand years ago, and nature has smoothed them over so you cannot
    tell whether they are a mine or a cave...

    By the way, yesterday walked along the coastal path to a clear view of
    Cligga Head. Where green - copper - can be seen leaking from the
    cliff-face. Bit of a hint of metalliferous mineralisation...
    Suggestion of ancient (Roman and before) era mining at Cligga Head.

    Something better commented...
    During "the middle ages" tin was obtained by "streaming" - guessing
    where the dense tin ore freed by erosion in geological time had
    accumulated and going gathering it from not-very-deep trenches.
    Mining to 1850's concentrated on copper.
    Price of copper falling on other reserves found elsewhere in the
    World, the Cornish miners knew there was tin deeper-down and went for
    that, with the copper mines already being deep down the big lodes.
    So the copper mining industry became what is now thought of - the
    Cornish tin miners.

    Okay, confession - I am not much of a geologist.
    I need to make amends.
    If anyone knows of a "geology quickly explained to scientists in other
    fields" introduction let me know.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sun Jul 9 23:17:55 2023
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly5y6un6ji.fsf@void.com...

    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    I suspect many programmers have resisted the strong temptation to add
    sarcastic responses for some user inputs. For wiseguys who responded
    to "Hit any key to continue" with Ctrl, Shift or Alt I redefined black
    as several bright colors in rapid succession to make the screen seem
    to explode like fireworks. It did continue though.


    Hi Jim, everyone

    That "mad moment" cost me a couple of hours.
    I thought of the nursery rhyme captcha but having just cycled home
    from Portreath in the sunset on the old mineral tramway, I had that "devilment" moment.
    It is a "sign of the times" and I am taking it as part of the
    current experience.

    My friend (female) came around and laughed when she saw how seriously
    I had taken it that I might have caused offence.
    Thanks for winding me up and "getting the penny to drop" :-)

    Best wishes,
    Rich S
    --------------------

    Hey, I was an Army sergeant. You know things are serious when people
    DON'T wise off.

    This displays some of the everyday attitude I expect from the British: https://www.amazon.com/Bravo-Two-Zero-Harrowing-Special/dp/0440218802
    Opening it randomly:
    "We knew many of the spooks by name, having worked with them in the UK. 'Morning, slime', I called out to a familiar face.
    I got a mouthed word and a jerk of the wrist in return."

    :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sun Jul 9 21:35:52 2023
    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lyfs5wn22y.fsf@void.com...

    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly5y6un6ji.fsf@void.com...

    ...having just cycled home
    from Portreath in the sunset on the old mineral tramway,

    ---------------------

    Do you know when tin mining in that area began? I was wondering to
    what extent it might have enabled the advance into the Bronze Age.

    It is thought that getting tin in Britain is almost as old as all
    recounting of "civilisation".
    I think you are a much better historian than me.
    Cornish tin has been found across Europe and the Middle East which is
    proven by scientific measurements (? which? Isotopes? Impurities?) to
    be from Cornwall.
    It is speculated that Jesus (yes that poor sod whose parents came up
    with that cock-and-bull story to cover-up that they had been shagging
    behind the bicycle shed) might have come to The West Country of
    England for tin, given his Uncle had a ship. No evidence of, but a plausibility. Apparently the Celtic Cornish were known to be
    cosmopolitan in their outlook and traders were welcomed.
    Own observation - there seem to be a disproportion of caves which just
    so happen to align with a mineral lode. Notably by the sea shore.

    At one cove, if you swim out to it and go into this cave, their are
    copper stains at the back. Towanroath Vugga (seemingly a cave) - seen
    on at least one YouTube video - which is accessed from the beach at
    low tide far beneath the iconic Towanroath engine-house, aligns with a
    lode.

    These could have been mined in historic times say 2thousand or
    3thousand years ago, and nature has smoothed them over so you cannot
    tell whether they are a mine or a cave...

    By the way, yesterday walked along the coastal path to a clear view of
    Cligga Head. Where green - copper - can be seen leaking from the
    cliff-face. Bit of a hint of metalliferous mineralisation...
    Suggestion of ancient (Roman and before) era mining at Cligga Head.

    Something better commented...
    During "the middle ages" tin was obtained by "streaming" - guessing
    where the dense tin ore freed by erosion in geological time had
    accumulated and going gathering it from not-very-deep trenches.
    Mining to 1850's concentrated on copper.
    Price of copper falling on other reserves found elsewhere in the
    World, the Cornish miners knew there was tin deeper-down and went for
    that, with the copper mines already being deep down the big lodes.
    So the copper mining industry became what is now thought of - the
    Cornish tin miners.

    Okay, confession - I am not much of a geologist.
    I need to make amends.
    If anyone knows of a "geology quickly explained to scientists in other
    fields" introduction let me know.

    ----------------------

    Aha!, both copper and tin in one place, easy to combine into bronze accidentally. Maybe your (or my Welsh) ancestors first brought us out of the Stone Age.

    Those who study ancient history rarely appear to have any practical hands-on knowledge of the basic crafts and trades and make guesses I can't agree
    with. The oldest books I have by people who have actually done what they
    wrote about are from the last thousand years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophilus_Presbyter

    A PBS show on King Arthur and Tintagel mentioned that the town appears to
    have been a major Roman era trading port. I was disappointed to learn that
    the ruined castle was an ancient fake tourist attraction.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon Jul 10 08:30:43 2023
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lyfs5wn22y.fsf@void.com...

    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:ly5y6un6ji.fsf@void.com...

    ...having just cycled home
    from Portreath in the sunset on the old mineral tramway,

    ---------------------

    Do you know when tin mining in that area began? I was wondering to
    what extent it might have enabled the advance into the Bronze Age.

    It is thought that getting tin in Britain is almost as old as all
    recounting of "civilisation".
    I think you are a much better historian than me.
    Cornish tin has been found across Europe and the Middle East which is
    proven by scientific measurements (? which? Isotopes? Impurities?) to
    be from Cornwall.
    It is speculated that Jesus (yes that poor sod whose parents came up
    with that cock-and-bull story to cover-up that they had been shagging
    behind the bicycle shed) might have come to The West Country of
    England for tin, given his Uncle had a ship. No evidence of, but a plausibility. Apparently the Celtic Cornish were known to be
    cosmopolitan in their outlook and traders were welcomed.
    Own observation - there seem to be a disproportion of caves which just
    so happen to align with a mineral lode. Notably by the sea shore.

    At one cove, if you swim out to it and go into this cave, their are
    copper stains at the back. Towanroath Vugga (seemingly a cave) - seen
    on at least one YouTube video - which is accessed from the beach at
    low tide far beneath the iconic Towanroath engine-house, aligns with a
    lode.

    These could have been mined in historic times say 2thousand or
    3thousand years ago, and nature has smoothed them over so you cannot
    tell whether they are a mine or a cave...

    By the way, yesterday walked along the coastal path to a clear view of
    Cligga Head. Where green - copper - can be seen leaking from the
    cliff-face. Bit of a hint of metalliferous mineralisation...
    Suggestion of ancient (Roman and before) era mining at Cligga Head.

    Something better commented...
    During "the middle ages" tin was obtained by "streaming" - guessing
    where the dense tin ore freed by erosion in geological time had
    accumulated and going gathering it from not-very-deep trenches.
    Mining to 1850's concentrated on copper.
    Price of copper falling on other reserves found elsewhere in the
    World, the Cornish miners knew there was tin deeper-down and went for
    that, with the copper mines already being deep down the big lodes.
    So the copper mining industry became what is now thought of - the
    Cornish tin miners.

    Okay, confession - I am not much of a geologist.
    I need to make amends.
    If anyone knows of a "geology quickly explained to scientists in other fields" introduction let me know.

    ----------------------

    Aha!, both copper and tin in one place, easy to combine into bronze accidentally. Maybe your (or my Welsh) ancestors first brought us out
    of the Stone Age.

    Those who study ancient history rarely appear to have any practical
    hands-on knowledge of the basic crafts and trades and make guesses I
    can't agree with. The oldest books I have by people who have actually
    done what they wrote about are from the last thousand years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophilus_Presbyter

    A PBS show on King Arthur and Tintagel mentioned that the town appears
    to have been a major Roman era trading port. I was disappointed to
    learn that the ruined castle was an ancient fake tourist attraction.

    We could open a thread on geology if anyone would like.
    Tintagel - amusing thought.

    I have managed to leave the "Contact Form" for several days now.

    I rue the late evening I wended my way back on the bus from the
    Skinners Brewery somewhat the better for the new batch of "Betty
    Stoggs" beer, and decided the years-parked thought that my website
    must have a "Contact form" needed "un-parking" and activating
    at that particular moment...

    The thought, like others, was "parked" because of the inevitability
    the thing would be a "project". Involving learning a lot of principles
    and skills which are "Level 101" to specialists but major
    time-consumers to me.

    Anyway, 'tis done.
    Can see some psychological need.
    What with one thing and another, I had a job interview where I
    deliberately removed and put to one side any filter between what I
    thought and what I said. Could see them reeling on the
    video-conference, but between those moments the interaction was more
    convivial than I have known in job interviews.
    With the benefit of four decades of participation - you get a feel for
    what's real and what's not and you know which way things have to go
    for anything worthwhile to happen.

    Upshot - "Contact form" so if more potential job interactions, can be contacted.

    Didn't know of job Services background Jim.
    I'm reading
    "On the Psychology of Military Incompetence"
    by Norman F. Dixon

    It is "unexpected". There are a few blatant imbeciles in it. But
    that is not the main story. What is emerging as the main culprit in
    the opinion of Dixon, a psychologist, is not what I expected.

    Anyway, I'm left thinking "I've seen this in my research" and "I've
    seen this when there in indication of something with enormous
    commercial significance which we need to be 'first off the starting
    blocks' with".

    New thread - military competence and incompetence? And generality to
    people in the overall economy.
    My concern is that "The service economy", much vaunted for its
    economic miracle effect 40 years ago, has become "People being paid
    handsomely for doing nothing", surveying the burgeoning managerial
    class.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 10 08:58:53 2023
    I suppose the American equivalent of "now is that junture to do that
    'Contact form' is... To come back from a most delightful afternoon at
    a neighbours barbecue with a few beers. And have the inspiration "Now
    is the time to get that 44 Magnum which has been unused at the back of
    the gun-cabinet for a few years and go down their range. Next morning
    having to ruefully run through the chiropracter's previous suggestions
    of good exercises to ease joint and muscle pains when they have their
    job to go to.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon Jul 10 08:35:27 2023
    On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 17:18:45 -0400
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:u8e39m$243s9$1@dont-email.me...

    https://www.businessinsider.com/slang-terms-canada-2018-4

    https://blog.lingoda.com/en/american-words-british-dont-understand/


    One I've used for awhile now:

    http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/

    Have quite a few slang books and unabridged dictionaries on hand but
    nowadays it's faster to search online...

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 10 09:59:02 2023
    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lyo7kkfckc.fsf@void.com...

    New thread - military competence and incompetence? And generality to
    people in the overall economy.

    ------------------------

    I had some personal exposure to that in Germany. I was in the Signal Corps which had a relatively high percentage of teachable personnel, without much
    to do in quiet areas except during infrequent field exercises. We were
    starved of funding and thus activity to keep war costs down. As Vietnam
    wound down the focus of agitation moved to civil rights, specifically those
    of blacks as other minorities were generally more motivated, better behaved
    and less visible, really decent and responsible people I have to say,
    including some blacks.

    Whenever a black soldier was charged with some offense the civil rights
    lawyers would converge and effectively kill the career of any officers involved, so the response was to ignore their drug offenses, and that soon spread to everyone, military discipline vanished. I felt sorry for black sergeants who were briefly put in the impossible position of enforcing order without support from above. Barracks inspections ceased so the inspectors wouldn't have to ignore the punchbowls of hashish. It was almost like university in the 60's again, with much cheaper drugs.

    You couldn't quit but you could essentially drop out in place. One man kept
    his heroin works prominently in his shirt pocket so no one would ask him to
    do anything. For a week after I inherited the battalion's photo lab there
    was a steady stream of knocks on the door. When I opened it the black would realize his old dealer was gone and silently walk away. The room was packed with empty cabinets. I received the noncritical assignments like that that could be dropped to go on a repair mission.

    One of my room mates was assigned to run the USO crafts shop to keep his
    drug dealing out of the communications center where he should have worked,
    and he proved to be a pretty good crafts instructor. I drove him around searching for briar roots to carve into hash pipes.

    The effect was surprisingly minimal. The few of us NCOs who normally kept everything going continued to and the rest stayed quietly buzzed and didn't slow us with their usual friction. There were jokes to the effect that Sergeants and Corporals (office clerks) were the only ones who knew how everything got done and they alone kept things running smoothly, and I
    suspect they were largely true although the pilots who flew me around on service calls were all officers, chauffeuring an enlisted repairman. One
    joke was what should a Lieutenant do when ordered to install a flagpole. The correct answer was to order a Sergeant to install it and then stay out of
    his way.

    After beer vending machines were installed I kept an eye on them and noticed that the milk dispensers always emptied first. Canned German beer was no
    better than canned American and in Milwaukee I found that American draft
    could be as good as German draft.

    The question on tin mining is relevant in that I suspect only a tiny handful are responsible for initiating all advances, for example it was mainly Maudslay's apprentices who created your Industrial Revolution. My choice was
    to acquire the knowledge and skills to help the more theoretical innovators develop their ideas into functional hardware.

    https://www.amazon.com/English-American-Builders-Joseph-Wickham/dp/1298599474 I've seen some of the important early machines the book shows in the
    American Precision Museum in Vermont and the Springfield Armory in Mass. https://americanprecision.org/

    Personally I tend to find solutions so simple they aren't patentable, like replacing the shower head with an extended sink spray that shuts off when released to not waste expensively heated water. Garden bug sprayers refitted with sink sprays let me shower with water heated in kettles on the wood
    stove. I bent up metal gutter brackets stiff enough to not need an
    obstructing upper cross brace so the gutters can be cleaned from the ground with a scoop on a pole. The rain cap on my chimney tilts open by pulling a
    cord to clean it with a weighted brush on a cable, all from the ground. The thin metal structures up there are painted to disappear into the background
    of tree trunks and branches, as is the chimney itself. Wood frames stained
    to match the trim and covered with clear polyester film give my house's original wooden windows 4 layer insulation. Weatherstripping around the
    edges holds them in place like a cork. Apparently your houses don't usually have storm windows with screens on the outside, as ours don't have Rolladen.
    My solar power UPS idea is apparently already a product in India, prompted
    by their unreliable power grid.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 10 10:17:19 2023
    "Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:u8gtuf$2h8h7$1@dont-email.me...

    One I've used for awhile now:

    http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/

    ------------------

    Bookmarked, thanks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 10 16:03:58 2023
    These are amazing insights.
    Something I've wondered...

    British servicemen - wartime "for the duration" soldiers - returned
    home from Burma (grim(?)) and lived normal lives. I met one - he was
    a friend of my grandmother. Used to come around on his bicycle. She
    told me - idea of respect. Not otherwise mentioned.
    The Lockerbie aircraft crash after the bombing - "PanAm whatever" -
    one "old boy" in whose garden several of the deceased fell was able to
    receive grieving American relatives knocking at the door (by
    arrangement) who came to see where their loved ones fell and were
    found - and he was courteously able to do it and show them the garden
    and the places because he had been in Burma... Just to give some idea
    of immediacy to American interests. They were going to re-house him
    but he said it wasn't necessary - explained he'd been in Burma and
    seen it all.

    American servicement returning from Vietnam - often struggled to
    assimilate back into society. I've met at least one, working in the
    US.

    So - how / why / what the difference?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 10 16:05:05 2023
    I'm going to do a shameless plug on a new thread.
    Something made possible because of "Contact Form".
    What I posted on "LinkedIn" ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 10 11:33:38 2023
    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lya5w33j1d.fsf@void.com...

    These are amazing insights.
    Something I've wondered...

    British servicemen - wartime "for the duration" soldiers - returned
    home from Burma (grim(?)) and lived normal lives. I met one - he was
    a friend of my grandmother. Used to come around on his bicycle. She
    told me - idea of respect. Not otherwise mentioned.
    The Lockerbie aircraft crash after the bombing - "PanAm whatever" -
    one "old boy" in whose garden several of the deceased fell was able to
    receive grieving American relatives knocking at the door (by
    arrangement) who came to see where their loved ones fell and were
    found - and he was courteously able to do it and show them the garden
    and the places because he had been in Burma... Just to give some idea
    of immediacy to American interests. They were going to re-house him
    but he said it wasn't necessary - explained he'd been in Burma and
    seen it all.

    American servicement returning from Vietnam - often struggled to
    assimilate back into society. I've met at least one, working in the
    US.

    So - how / why / what the difference?

    ----------------------

    I was never in combat and my father and uncle served in an Air Corps
    ordnance company as CO and 1st Sergeant and didn't see it up close either.
    My only exposure to mangled, decaying corpses has been roadkill and cleaning
    up human blood after the body was removed.

    "The Red Badge of Courage" is claimed to be very realistic although the
    author didn't have first-hand experience. "Storms of Steel" which I'm part
    way through is first hand experience of WW1 trench warfare by a capable
    writer. I'm glad he didn't show photos of the mangled human roadkill he described. https://www.ww2incolor.com/api/image/188bdb31-5dd4-4201-b4f7-c6de7d57ac71.jpeg

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Wilkins@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 10 17:49:24 2023
    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lya5w33j1d.fsf@void.com...

    They were going to re-house him
    but he said it wasn't necessary - explained he'd been in Burma and
    seen it all.

    American servicement returning from Vietnam - often struggled to
    assimilate back into society. I've met at least one, working in the
    US.

    So - how / why / what the difference?

    ---------------------
    In the memoirs I've read noncombatants were either absent or not hostile,
    the casualties were armed troops. Perhaps the reason for the difference is
    that we tried to impose Peace on civilian populations that sought Justice (revenge) instead.

    Like Ulster and Palestine.

    An illustrative tale is a GI arriving in Vietnam and being driven to his new unit in a Jeep, accompanied by a guard with a shotgun. He noticed a young couple on a motorbike pull up beside the Jeep, whereupon the guard blew the guy's head off and they swerved into the ditch.
    1
    2
    3
    He was frozen in horror until the girl's grenade exploded and he realized
    why.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Tue Jul 11 08:15:34 2023
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lya5w33j1d.fsf@void.com...

    They were going to re-house him
    but he said it wasn't necessary - explained he'd been in Burma and
    seen it all.

    American servicement returning from Vietnam - often struggled to
    assimilate back into society. I've met at least one, working in the
    US.

    So - how / why / what the difference?

    ---------------------
    In the memoirs I've read noncombatants were either absent or not
    hostile, the casualties were armed troops. Perhaps the reason for the difference is that we tried to impose Peace on civilian populations
    that sought Justice (revenge) instead.

    Like Ulster and Palestine.

    An illustrative tale is a GI arriving in Vietnam and being driven to
    his new unit in a Jeep, accompanied by a guard with a shotgun. He
    noticed a young couple on a motorbike pull up beside the Jeep,
    whereupon the guard blew the guy's head off and they swerved into the
    ditch.
    1
    2
    3
    He was frozen in horror until the girl's grenade exploded and he
    realized why.

    Fair hypothesis for the difference...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)