• Bi-metal bench block

    From Snag@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 26 19:39:12 2023
    My friend the jeweler did me a real solid on my wife's Christmas gift
    , and I want to do something for him . Jewelers can never have too many
    bench blocks , and I'd like to make him a sorta special one . My idea is
    to make one that's steel on one side and brass on the other . Probably
    around 2 1/2 to 3" in diameter and around 3/4 - 1" thick . My concern is
    the bond between brass and steel . My first idea was to cast the brass
    to the steel , then machine to final size . This will mean preheating
    the steel so the brass doesn't chill and solidify too soon . The only
    way I can see this working is to machine a recess in the steel or to
    clamp a band around the preheated steel disc . Probably need to flux and
    prime with some brass brazing rod too . This thing will be hammered on ,
    so I doubt any kind of epoxy or other chemical bond will hold up for
    long . The brass side will have vee and maybe half-round grooves plus
    various size holes for pin punch operations . The steel side is for
    stamping or flattening type stuff .
    Ideas on forming a lasting bond are welcome ...
    --
    Snag
    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Snag on Tue Dec 26 19:36:32 2023
    On 12/26/2023 6:39 PM, Snag wrote:
      My friend the jeweler did me a real solid on my wife's Christmas gift
    , and I want to do something for him . Jewelers can never have too many
    bench blocks , and I'd like to make him a sorta special one . My idea is
    to make one that's steel on one side and brass on the other . Probably
    around 2 1/2 to 3" in diameter and around 3/4 - 1" thick . My concern is
    the bond between brass and steel . My first idea was to cast the brass
    to the steel , then machine to final size . This will mean preheating
    the steel so the brass doesn't chill and solidify too soon . The only
    way I can see this working is to machine a recess in the steel or to
    clamp a band around the preheated steel disc . Probably need to flux and prime with some brass brazing rod too . This thing will be hammered on ,
    so I doubt any kind of epoxy or other chemical bond will hold up for
    long . The brass side will have vee and maybe half-round grooves plus
    various size holes for pin punch operations . The steel side is for
    stamping or flattening type stuff .
      Ideas on forming a lasting bond are welcome ...


    Brass and steel? You almost certainly have to solder. Maybe you can
    get by with something like Silphous 15, but I would bet on an acid paste
    flux and a separate silver solder. Atleast you aren't upside down and
    sideways behind a condenser. You can do it on the bench. You might be
    able to use generic plumbing solder, but you did say "stay together."

    Nah, ignore all that' I don't know nuthin'!

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From Snag@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Tue Dec 26 22:27:46 2023
    On 12/26/2023 8:36 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 12/26/2023 6:39 PM, Snag wrote:
       My friend the jeweler did me a real solid on my wife's Christmas
    gift , and I want to do something for him . Jewelers can never have
    too many bench blocks , and I'd like to make him a sorta special one .
    My idea is to make one that's steel on one side and brass on the other
    . Probably around 2 1/2 to 3" in diameter and around 3/4 - 1" thick .
    My concern is the bond between brass and steel . My first idea was to
    cast the brass to the steel , then machine to final size . This will
    mean preheating the steel so the brass doesn't chill and solidify too
    soon . The only way I can see this working is to machine a recess in
    the steel or to clamp a band around the preheated steel disc .
    Probably need to flux and prime with some brass brazing rod too . This
    thing will be hammered on , so I doubt any kind of epoxy or other
    chemical bond will hold up for long . The brass side will have vee and
    maybe half-round grooves plus various size holes for pin punch
    operations . The steel side is for stamping or flattening type stuff .
       Ideas on forming a lasting bond are welcome ...


    Brass and steel?  You almost certainly have to solder.  Maybe you can
    get by with something like Silphous 15, but I would bet on an acid paste
    flux and a separate silver solder.  Atleast you aren't upside down and sideways behind a condenser.  You can do it on the bench.  You might be able to use generic plumbing solder, but you did say "stay together."

    Nah, ignore all that'  I don't know nuthin'!


    I just happen to have a few sticks of silfos 15 out in the shop ...
    and some boric acid flux . But now ya got me thinkin' , how about
    phosphor bronze TIG filler ? I've got some silver solder here somewhere
    , but I haven't seen it in a couple or five years now - got it to
    repair/make some bandsaw blades and misplaced it almost immediately .
    I've also got regular brass brazing rod on hand . I'll still have to
    cast a slug for the brass side , which is why I was thinking about
    casting it right onto the steel .

    --
    Snag
    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

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  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to Snag on Wed Dec 27 14:37:34 2023
    On Tue, 26 Dec 2023 19:39:12 -0600, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

    My friend the jeweler did me a real solid on my wife's Christmas gift
    , and I want to do something for him . Jewelers can never have too many
    bench blocks , and I'd like to make him a sorta special one . My idea is
    to make one that's steel on one side and brass on the other . Probably
    around 2 1/2 to 3" in diameter and around 3/4 - 1" thick . My concern is
    the bond between brass and steel . My first idea was to cast the brass
    to the steel , then machine to final size . This will mean preheating
    the steel so the brass doesn't chill and solidify too soon . The only
    way I can see this working is to machine a recess in the steel or to
    clamp a band around the preheated steel disc . Probably need to flux and >prime with some brass brazing rod too . This thing will be hammered on ,
    so I doubt any kind of epoxy or other chemical bond will hold up for
    long . The brass side will have vee and maybe half-round grooves plus
    various size holes for pin punch operations . The steel side is for
    stamping or flattening type stuff .
    Ideas on forming a lasting bond are welcome ...

    Given the differences in thermal coefficients of linear expansion, I'd
    do this mechanically, by machining a threaded post and threaded recess
    into which the post screws, and fix it all together with stud locking
    locktite.

    Joe

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Snag on Wed Dec 27 13:25:59 2023
    On 12/26/2023 9:27 PM, Snag wrote:
    On 12/26/2023 8:36 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 12/26/2023 6:39 PM, Snag wrote:
       My friend the jeweler did me a real solid on my wife's Christmas
    gift , and I want to do something for him . Jewelers can never have
    too many bench blocks , and I'd like to make him a sorta special one
    . My idea is to make one that's steel on one side and brass on the
    other . Probably around 2 1/2 to 3" in diameter and around 3/4 - 1"
    thick . My concern is the bond between brass and steel . My first
    idea was to cast the brass to the steel , then machine to final size
    . This will mean preheating the steel so the brass doesn't chill and
    solidify too soon . The only way I can see this working is to machine
    a recess in the steel or to clamp a band around the preheated steel
    disc . Probably need to flux and prime with some brass brazing rod
    too . This thing will be hammered on , so I doubt any kind of epoxy
    or other chemical bond will hold up for long . The brass side will
    have vee and maybe half-round grooves plus various size holes for pin
    punch operations . The steel side is for stamping or flattening type
    stuff .
       Ideas on forming a lasting bond are welcome ...


    Brass and steel?  You almost certainly have to solder.  Maybe you can
    get by with something like Silphous 15, but I would bet on an acid
    paste flux and a separate silver solder.  Atleast you aren't upside
    down and sideways behind a condenser.  You can do it on the bench.
    You might be able to use generic plumbing solder, but you did say
    "stay together."

    Nah, ignore all that'  I don't know nuthin'!


      I just happen to have a few sticks of silfos 15 out in the shop ...
    and some boric acid flux . But now ya got me thinkin' , how about
    phosphor bronze TIG filler ? I've got some silver solder here somewhere
    , but I haven't seen it in a couple or five years now - got it to
    repair/make some bandsaw blades and misplaced it almost immediately .
    I've also got regularbrass brazing rod on hand .

    Silphos 15 is supposedly self fluxing. I found I was able to solder
    copper on the bench with it without flux anyway. I didn't have so much
    luck with out of position soldering.

    I was thinking brazing might not be that great since you will be running
    brass on brass. Brazing is more like soldering (should be) than
    welding. Same on same is generally welding. even with a torch. I used
    to torch weld mufflers with coat hangers.


    I'll still have to
    cast a slug for the brass side , which is why I was thinking about
    casting it right onto the steel .

    I totally missed that. If you find the right preheat temperature for
    the steel and maybe a flux it might be the best result. Maybe even
    machine the steel to keylock with the brass when its cast.

    All of that being said, I was wondering if a simple mechanical
    connection might be as good as anything. He's not going to be beating
    on a bench block with a 3lb machinist hammer, and he's not to likely to
    be heating it directly either. You might be able to get away with
    pinning the two pieces together with some sleeve and bearing locker.

    I have a small bench block I use for tapping out pins on firearms, and
    the heaviest hammer I have ever used on it is about 3 ounces. The same
    hammer I used with a punch to peen screw slots back into a usable
    condition for removal.

    You aren't making a blacksmith swage. You are making a jewelers bench
    block.






    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From Snag@21:1/5 to Bob La Londe on Wed Dec 27 17:42:27 2023
    On 12/27/2023 2:25 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 12/26/2023 9:27 PM, Snag wrote:
    On 12/26/2023 8:36 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 12/26/2023 6:39 PM, Snag wrote:
       My friend the jeweler did me a real solid on my wife's Christmas
    gift , and I want to do something for him . Jewelers can never have
    too many bench blocks , and I'd like to make him a sorta special one
    . My idea is to make one that's steel on one side and brass on the
    other . Probably around 2 1/2 to 3" in diameter and around 3/4 - 1"
    thick . My concern is the bond between brass and steel . My first
    idea was to cast the brass to the steel , then machine to final size
    . This will mean preheating the steel so the brass doesn't chill and
    solidify too soon . The only way I can see this working is to
    machine a recess in the steel or to clamp a band around the
    preheated steel disc . Probably need to flux and prime with some
    brass brazing rod too . This thing will be hammered on , so I doubt
    any kind of epoxy or other chemical bond will hold up for long . The
    brass side will have vee and maybe half-round grooves plus various
    size holes for pin punch operations . The steel side is for stamping
    or flattening type stuff .
       Ideas on forming a lasting bond are welcome ...


    Brass and steel?  You almost certainly have to solder.  Maybe you can
    get by with something like Silphous 15, but I would bet on an acid
    paste flux and a separate silver solder.  Atleast you aren't upside
    down and sideways behind a condenser.  You can do it on the bench.
    You might be able to use generic plumbing solder, but you did say
    "stay together."

    Nah, ignore all that'  I don't know nuthin'!


       I just happen to have a few sticks of silfos 15 out in the shop ...
    and some boric acid flux . But now ya got me thinkin' , how about
    phosphor bronze TIG filler ? I've got some silver solder here
    somewhere , but I haven't seen it in a couple or five years now - got
    it to repair/make some bandsaw blades and misplaced it almost
    immediately . I've also got regularbrass brazing rod on hand .

    Silphos 15 is supposedly self fluxing.  I found I was able to solder
    copper on the bench with it without flux anyway.  I didn't have so much
    luck with out of position soldering.

    I was thinking brazing might not be that great since you will be running brass on brass.  Brazing is more like soldering (should be) than
    welding.  Same on same is generally welding.  even with a torch.  I used to torch weld mufflers with coat hangers.


    I'll still have to cast a slug for the brass side , which is why I was
    thinking about casting it right onto the steel .

    I totally missed that.  If you find the right preheat temperature for
    the steel and maybe a flux it might be the best result.  Maybe even
    machine the steel to keylock with the brass when its cast.

    All of that being said, I was wondering if a simple mechanical
    connection might be as good as anything.  He's not going to be beating
    on a bench block with a 3lb machinist hammer, and he's not to likely to
    be heating it directly either.  You might be able to get away with
    pinning the two pieces together with some sleeve and bearing locker.

    I have a small bench block I use for tapping out pins on firearms, and
    the heaviest hammer I have ever used on it is about 3 ounces.  The same hammer I used with a punch to peen screw slots back into a usable
    condition for removal.

    You aren't making a blacksmith swage.  You are making a jewelers bench block.


    As Jim suggested , a keylock machined feature . As you suggest , a
    preheated steel block and flux for the pour . I think I'm going to use a
    mix of bearing bronze shavings and some faucet chunks . Cartridge brass
    is probably too soft for this piece .
    This guy has been really good to me , bought a few pieces of silver ,
    a couple of jewelry purchases for my wife . And a jeweler can't have too
    many bench blocks . That'd be like a mechanic having too many wrenches
    or a blacksmith too many hammers and tongs !
    --
    Snag
    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

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  • From Snag@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Wed Dec 27 17:48:10 2023
    On 12/27/2023 1:37 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Tue, 26 Dec 2023 19:39:12 -0600, Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

    My friend the jeweler did me a real solid on my wife's Christmas gift
    , and I want to do something for him . Jewelers can never have too many
    bench blocks , and I'd like to make him a sorta special one . My idea is
    to make one that's steel on one side and brass on the other . Probably
    around 2 1/2 to 3" in diameter and around 3/4 - 1" thick . My concern is
    the bond between brass and steel . My first idea was to cast the brass
    to the steel , then machine to final size . This will mean preheating
    the steel so the brass doesn't chill and solidify too soon . The only
    way I can see this working is to machine a recess in the steel or to
    clamp a band around the preheated steel disc . Probably need to flux and
    prime with some brass brazing rod too . This thing will be hammered on ,
    so I doubt any kind of epoxy or other chemical bond will hold up for
    long . The brass side will have vee and maybe half-round grooves plus
    various size holes for pin punch operations . The steel side is for
    stamping or flattening type stuff .
    Ideas on forming a lasting bond are welcome ...

    Given the differences in thermal coefficients of linear expansion, I'd
    do this mechanically, by machining a threaded post and threaded recess
    into which the post screws, and fix it all together with stud locking locktite.

    Joe


    Or as Jim suggested , a machined feature that the brass can shrink to
    fit tightly as it cools . That T/C can work for you or against you ...
    --
    Snag
    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

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  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Snag on Thu Dec 28 12:45:47 2023
    On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 17:42:27 -0600
    Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    This guy has been really good to me , bought a few pieces of silver ,
    a couple of jewelry purchases for my wife . And a jeweler can't have too
    many bench blocks . That'd be like a mechanic having too many wrenches
    or a blacksmith too many hammers and tongs !

    If you're feeling really generous... offer to make an improved version
    after he has had time to work with this one and see where changes could
    be made...

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

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  • From Snag@21:1/5 to Leon Fisk on Thu Dec 28 11:39:47 2023
    On 12/28/2023 10:45 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
    On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 17:42:27 -0600
    Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    This guy has been really good to me , bought a few pieces of silver ,
    a couple of jewelry purchases for my wife . And a jeweler can't have too
    many bench blocks . That'd be like a mechanic having too many wrenches
    or a blacksmith too many hammers and tongs !

    If you're feeling really generous... offer to make an improved version
    after he has had time to work with this one and see where changes could
    be made...


    I've already got a couple of things that I'm not seeing on commercial
    blocks .
    --
    Snag
    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

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