On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 10:47:38 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>

I pulled the wheel and saw the drum was
labeled Hadco 412. I couldn't find that part anywhere.

Seems to be really old... some discussion here in an Airstream Forum:

"I recently went through a simular issue with what you are doing with
your brakes. There is an available solution to go brand new backing
plates; They are Hays / AL-KO 12"x2"
Part numbers 185100 and 185150
ETrailer.com sells them
RedNeck Trailer Supply sells them
They are specifically designed to work with the zero offset drums that
we have on our vintage travel trailers. You get brand new "guts" that
work great while allowing us to keep the vintage look of our original
drums."

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f439/1950-clipper-backing-plates-124782.html

Maybe give you some more info, help with a decision🤷

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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I picked up a goose neck trailer a while back. I was told it was made
by a farm shop in Ca, and the SN/ID is a CA issued number.

One axle has brake. (No I didn't make a typo.) It has only one brake.
The other side has a standard spindle and hub. Atleast it has a flange
for mounting the shoe back plate. The other axle has no accommodation
for brakes at all.

I haven't really worried about it for local towing and relatively short
grades, but I'll be needing to haul a 3/4 to truck some 350 miles. Part
of it has some extended downhill grades. My truck is a 3/4 ton, 4x4,
wide tires, crew cab, anti-lock brakes. It stops really well, and it
will hold that trailer under normal conditions. Even with a load. I've
used it to haul my farm tractor (6800lbs give or take) over Telegraph
Pass with no issues. If I put the truck in tow haul mode it even seems
to engine brake on the grades despite having an automatic. I have to
say I am modestly impressed with that Allison transmission. ASnyway,
that's on familiar roads, in good conditions, with no surprises.
Traveling across the state through the mountains is another story. I'd
rather have some brakes on the trailer.

So... I decided to see what it would take to get a brake on the other
side, and get them wired up. I pulled the wheel and saw the drum was
labeled Hadco 412. I couldn't find that part anywhere. Not even on the
Hadco website. I went ahead and pulled the drum hub, to check the
bearings and see if I could figure it out from there and just install a
new pair.

The eTrailer website identified the bearings as being from a 5200lb
axle. Great. I only licensed the trailer for 10K anyway. I can't find
a direct replacement for that weight axle, drum brake hub, and bolt
pattern. 1.5 inch inner bearing ID. 0.938. 12x2 brake drum. (Pads
were much narrower at around 1-5/8). 5200lb axle (most likely)... and 5
on 5-1/2 bolt pattern. I can't find a drop in replacement.

I could go to a 6 on 5-1/2 hub, but for sanity sake I'd need to change
the idle axle hubs to match, and then buy or scrounge 5 new (to me) rims (spare) for the trailer. That starts to push up the cost of the job.

I was already planning to buy five new load range E tires, but they
aren't as expensive as I thought they would be. Still this is turning
into a pretty steep hill to climb.

Wish me luck.

Oh, yeah. There is another option. Out back of the shop I have an old
travel trailer I was thinking about scavenging out anyway. Pull the
toilet and one of the holding tanks for another travel trailer. It has
two axles that look very similar, except it has a six lug bolt pattern.
The tires are garbage, but at least it has 4 rims. Doing a complete
dual axle swap sounds like a lot more work than I signed up for, but its
an option. Both axles have all electric brakes. The cost might be a
little hardware, 4 new seals (I would definitely repack those bearings),
a tub of grease, and probably two days of my time. Two days I do not
really have.

Nothing is ever easy.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff



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On 3/10/2024 11:15 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 10:47:38 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>

I pulled the wheel and saw the drum was
labeled Hadco 412. I couldn't find that part anywhere.

Seems to be really old... some discussion here in an Airstream Forum:

"I recently went through a simular issue with what you are doing with
your brakes. There is an available solution to go brand new backing
plates; They are Hays / AL-KO 12"x2"
Part numbers 185100 and 185150
ETrailer.com sells them
RedNeck Trailer Supply sells them
They are specifically designed to work with the zero offset drums that
we have on our vintage travel trailers. You get brand new "guts" that
work great while allowing us to keep the vintage look of our original
drums."

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f439/1950-clipper-backing-plates-124782.html

Maybe give you some more info, help with a decision🤷

That was a really good lead. Looks like eTrailer might have had those
parts, but not anymore. They dominate search results, but it always
goes to a different product. It also looks like AL-KO no longer sells
brakes.



--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff


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On 3/10/2024 11:30 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 3/10/2024 11:15 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 10:47:38 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>

I pulled the wheel and saw the drum was
labeled Hadco 412.  I couldn't find that part anywhere.

Seems to be really old... some discussion here in an Airstream Forum:

"I recently went through a simular issue with what you are doing with
your brakes. There is an available solution to go brand new backing
plates; They are Hays / AL-KO 12"x2"
Part numbers 185100 and 185150
ETrailer.com sells them
RedNeck Trailer Supply sells them
They are specifically designed to work with the zero offset drums that
we have on our vintage travel trailers. You get brand new "guts" that
work great while allowing us to keep the vintage look of our original
drums."

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f439/1950-clipper-backing-plates-124782.html

Maybe give you some more info, help with a decision🤷

That was a really good lead.  Looks like eTrailer might have had those parts, but not anymore.  They dominate search results, but it always
goes to a different product.  It also looks like AL-KO no longer sells brakes.

Yeah, nothing from eTrailer. I just caught a sales/support person
online and instead of answering my question about the drum/hub they
tried to sell me the brake assembly. Finally they admitted they
couldn't help with the hard part when pressed.

Its looking like stealing the axles from the other trailer may be the
best option.

Easier maybe might be to just buy new axles, but I can't find a 5200lb
drop axle assembly with brakes. Even if I settled for the deck being 4
inches higher (not desired for hauling vehicles) they are almost a grand
per axle. 2 days vs $2000...

The thing that makes the search harder is eTrailer has spent a lot of
money on search engine optimization. They absolutely DOMINATE the
search results, but many of the links go to totally different products
when you click on them.


--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff


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On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 11:20:36 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>

It gets harder... The trailer is slightly narrow than I thought, and
the spring centers are a lot narrower than I thought. There is no stock
axle available for the application. Even if I buy new axles I have to
modify them.

Can you buy just a stub that would fit in the end of the axle tube? I
don't think this one is heavy enough but illustrates what I was
thinking of:

https://needatrailerpart.com/products/5-x-5-right-side-brake-assembly-spindle-kit-stub-end-unit-trailer-axle-3500-84

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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On 3/11/2024 11:51 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 11:20:36 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>

It gets harder... The trailer is slightly narrow than I thought, and
the spring centers are a lot narrower than I thought. There is no stock
axle available for the application. Even if I buy new axles I have to
modify them.

Can you buy just a stub that would fit in the end of the axle tube? I
don't think this one is heavy enough but illustrates what I was
thinking of:

https://needatrailerpart.com/products/5-x-5-right-side-brake-assembly-spindle-kit-stub-end-unit-trailer-axle-3500-84

I have to look at the axle again. Replacing the spindle did occur to
me. Its a 4" drop axle, and I keep forgetting to look exactly how the
drop is made.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff


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On 3/10/2024 11:57 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 3/10/2024 11:30 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 3/10/2024 11:15 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 10:47:38 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>

I pulled the wheel and saw the drum was
labeled Hadco 412.  I couldn't find that part anywhere.

Seems to be really old... some discussion here in an Airstream Forum:

"I recently went through a simular issue with what you are doing with
your brakes. There is an available solution to go brand new backing
plates; They are Hays / AL-KO 12"x2"
Part numbers 185100 and 185150
ETrailer.com sells them
RedNeck Trailer Supply sells them
They are specifically designed to work with the zero offset drums that
we have on our vintage travel trailers. You get brand new "guts" that
work great while allowing us to keep the vintage look of our original
drums."

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f439/1950-clipper-backing-plates-124782.html

Maybe give you some more info, help with a decision🤷

That was a really good lead.  Looks like eTrailer might have had those
parts, but not anymore.  They dominate search results, but it always
goes to a different product.  It also looks like AL-KO no longer sells
brakes.

Yeah, nothing from eTrailer.  I just caught a sales/support person
online and instead of answering my question about the drum/hub they
tried to sell me the brake assembly.  Finally they admitted they
couldn't help with the hard part when pressed.

Its looking like stealing the axles from the other trailer may be the
best option.

Easier maybe might be to just buy new axles, but I can't find a 5200lb
drop axle assembly with brakes.  Even if I settled for the deck being 4 inches higher (not desired for hauling vehicles) they are almost a grand
per axle.  2 days vs $2000...

The thing that makes the search harder is eTrailer has spent a lot of
money on search engine optimization.  They absolutely DOMINATE the
search results, but many of the links go to totally different products
when you click on them.

It gets harder... The trailer is slightly narrow than I thought, and
the spring centers are a lot narrower than I thought. There is no stock
axle available for the application. Even if I buy new axles I have to
modify them.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff


--
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On 3/11/2024 12:02 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 3/11/2024 11:51 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 11:20:36 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>

It gets harder...  The trailer is slightly narrow than I thought, and
the spring centers are a lot narrower than I thought.  There is no stock >>> axle available for the application.  Even if I buy new axles I have to
modify them.

Can you buy just a stub that would fit in the end of the axle tube? I
don't think this one is heavy enough but illustrates what I was
thinking of:

https://needatrailerpart.com/products/5-x-5-right-side-brake-assembly-spindle-kit-stub-end-unit-trailer-axle-3500-84

I have to look at the axle again.  Replacing the spindle did occur to
me.  Its a 4" drop axle, and I keep forgetting to look exactly how the
drop is made.

I said screw it and ordered some 6K drop axles as close as I could find
to length with "loose" (weld on yourself) spring seats. The suggested
spring center for that axle is an inch wider than my spring centers, but
I can't imagine it will hurt anything if I weld them on 1/2 inch closer together.

One of the old axles will be going under a utility bed (plus frame) to
make it into a utility trailer.

The axles under the travel trailer may get salvaged out some day, but
not soon. I don't have the time to deal with that to right now.


--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff


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On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 12:31:23 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>

I said screw it and ordered some 6K drop axles as close as I could find
to length with "loose" (weld on yourself) spring seats. The suggested >spring center for that axle is an inch wider than my spring centers, but
I can't imagine it will hurt anything if I weld them on 1/2 inch closer >together.

Decisions like that usually sit-better-with-me if I've had time to do
some research and find the alternatives aren't so good. You'll feel
better about using it once done knowing what's underneath and parts are currently available🙂

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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On 3/11/2024 1:34 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 12:31:23 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>

I said screw it and ordered some 6K drop axles as close as I could find
to length with "loose" (weld on yourself) spring seats. The suggested
spring center for that axle is an inch wider than my spring centers, but
I can't imagine it will hurt anything if I weld them on 1/2 inch closer
together.

Decisions like that usually sit-better-with-me if I've had time to do
some research and find the alternatives aren't so good. You'll feel
better about using it once done knowing what's underneath and parts are currently available🙂

I was just looking at the one brake hub I still had, and its broken.
Looks like about 3/4 of the way around in front of the hub. It also
looks like it is not one piece like a lot of the trailer brake hubs. It
looks like there is a joint, and I may be able to unbolt it from the hub
so I can continue to use the hub without it for a plane axle
application. The bearings and seals (substitutes) are still available,
but that's about it.

I went ahead and ordered new seals for both old axles so I can repack
the bearings and use them on other projects. One is to convert an old
utility bed into a utility trailer. Not that I need it, but sometimes I
help out friends, and it would be nice to not have to fill my truck up
with tools and unload everything when I do. One of those axles will be
great for that. Then just leave duplicate tools in that, and keep it
locked up.


--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff


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On 3/11/2024 3:16 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 3/11/2024 1:34 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 12:31:23 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>

I said screw it and ordered some 6K drop axles as close as I could find
to length with "loose" (weld on yourself) spring seats.   The suggested >>> spring center for that axle is an inch wider than my spring centers, but >>> I can't imagine it will hurt anything if I weld them on 1/2 inch closer
together.

Decisions like that usually sit-better-with-me if I've had time to do
some research and find the alternatives aren't so good. You'll feel
better about using it once done knowing what's underneath and parts are
currently available🙂

I was just looking at the one brake hub I still had, and its broken.
Looks like about 3/4 of the way around in front of the hub.  It also
looks like it is not one piece like a lot of the trailer brake hubs.  It looks like there is a joint, and I may be able to unbolt it from the hub
so I can continue to use the hub without it for a plane axle
application.  The bearings and seals (substitutes) are still available,
but that's about it.

I went ahead and ordered new seals for both old axles so I can repack
the bearings and use them on other projects.  One is to convert an old utility bed into a utility trailer.  Not that I need it, but sometimes I help out friends, and it would be nice to not have to fill my truck up
with tools and unload everything when I do.  One of those axles will be great for that.  Then just leave duplicate tools in that, and keep it
locked up.

I'm not sure if this is genius or stupid. The lug bolts are pressed
through the drum, and then through the hub. Basically it is pinning
them together. It makes them functionally like the more modern one
piece drum-hubs used on utility trailers. It looks like one of the
cracks may have originated in the lug bolt hole, but I won't know for
sure until I get them out.

I really shouldn't be wasting time messing with it, but my curiosity
sent me down the rabbit hole...

... the drum is now removed, but the lugs are still stuck in place.
Amazing what you can do with a hammer and a cold chisel. I haven't
tried heat yet. The old school lug nut and a hammer did nothing.
Figured I'd circle all the lugs with Kroil over night and see if that
helps. Then probably over to the 20 ton press tomorrow.



--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff


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On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 15:16:17 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

<snip>

I went ahead and ordered new seals for both old axles so I can repack
the bearings and use them on other projects. One is to convert an old >utility bed into a utility trailer...

That would be really nice. I too thought of something like that years
ago when I was still helping people with stuff often enough. Hated
rounding up my tools (and forgetting some) to work on something
elsewhere and then having to un-round them when done...


--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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