• gauge railway workshop to yard

    From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 7 22:10:08 2024
    Hello all

    Yup really niche question this.

    Friend re-concreting his workshop floor, and intends to lay
    mine-railway tracks in it. Which runs out into the yard and enables
    machines which make a mess to be wheeled-out from stored safe and dry
    in the workshop to working some distance away given associated dust
    when running.

    Two gauges seem to be in use here - 18inch and 2ft (24inch)
    (* 18 25.4) ;; 457.2 ;; 457 mm gauge
    (* 24 25.4) ;; 609.5999999999999 ;; 610 mm gauge

    Wheels & wagons etc available both gauges.
    Though 18inch maybe more common in the very compact tin mines (the
    lodes are narrow).

    Anyone know of an argument to choose one gauge over another?

    I'd have thought maybe the smaller gauge as seems big enough for
    smallish hammer-mill, etc.; takes less space; and can have tighter
    corners outside the workshop.

    What experience does anyone have suggesting best choice?

    Regards,
    Rich S

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Richard Smith on Fri Jun 7 15:26:03 2024
    On 6/7/2024 2:10 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
    Hello all

    Yup really niche question this.

    Friend re-concreting his workshop floor, and intends to lay
    mine-railway tracks in it. Which runs out into the yard and enables
    machines which make a mess to be wheeled-out from stored safe and dry
    in the workshop to working some distance away given associated dust
    when running.

    Two gauges seem to be in use here - 18inch and 2ft (24inch)
    (* 18 25.4) ;; 457.2 ;; 457 mm gauge
    (* 24 25.4) ;; 609.5999999999999 ;; 610 mm gauge

    Wheels & wagons etc available both gauges.
    Though 18inch maybe more common in the very compact tin mines (the
    lodes are narrow).

    Anyone know of an argument to choose one gauge over another?

    I'd have thought maybe the smaller gauge as seems big enough for
    smallish hammer-mill, etc.; takes less space; and can have tighter
    corners outside the workshop.

    What experience does anyone have suggesting best choice?

    Regards,
    Rich S


    Wider base is more stable. Maybe if the equipment has drop legs for
    stability when in use the track width is less of an issue.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 8 08:31:41 2024
    While on the topic - if you were renewing railway track in a mine,
    expedience the only concern - what would you use?
    The low rolling resistance and being able to simply push wagons to a
    tonne weight along levels you cannot stick your elbow out in is
    fundamentally advantageous.
    Saw on a US website that still sell rails for mine railways.
    For infrequent hobby use you would use?
    Access into mine limited - no adit (horizontal) access nor sloping
    decline - is shaft only.
    Wondered whether you could lower flat bar (rectangular section) down the
    shaft in long lengths and weld to steel "ties" to make a functioning
    railway (not going to need expansion joints down there - not many frosts
    and not much "solar gain" on heatwave days!).
    Saw on a video a coal mine in Pakistan where they use angle-iron for
    rails - shows rope-worked decline the wagons come to surface along.
    Which I take it is cost-justified?
    There are points / switches - cannot have double-flanged wheels to self-stabilise track, for what it's worth... And yes the tracks do
    snake around with curves in following the lodes.

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  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 8 08:19:39 2024
    Thanks for replies.
    You'd probably timber the ends of a wagon - timber between ground and
    frame of wagon.
    To be honest, gauge will come down to what is available.

    The ease of moving things on steel-rail wagons...
    In the hobby mine I've experienced you can easily push several hundred
    kilos then the wagon - sometimes much of a tonne.
    If you wanted to use the workshop in no reference to the machines you
    could easily push them outside for the time being.

    I was serendipetously casting for anything I hadn't thought of.

    As a kid there were still flourspar mines around - one had an adit
    access with probably 18inch gauge track and a battery electric loco - as
    I remember. Coming across it when they were working. How could I have
    been there in a weekday as a school kid... Else they were working
    overtime on a Saturday morning.
    A brickworks had a little railway which went for miles getting clay.
    Could see lines. Still ran the WW1 supply railway equipment, so would
    be 2ft gauge - think they were called "Simplexes" - little petrol /
    gasoline motor.

    I was one of those kids lost on this "interest" - compensation was as
    reached upper teenage, realised I had a map and timescale of the industrialisation of the world - rather useful :-)

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  • From Bob La Londe@21:1/5 to Richard Smith on Sat Jun 8 14:29:13 2024
    On 6/8/2024 12:31 AM, Richard Smith wrote:
    While on the topic - if you were renewing railway track in a mine,
    expedience the only concern - what would you use?
    The low rolling resistance and being able to simply push wagons to a
    tonne weight along levels you cannot stick your elbow out in is
    fundamentally advantageous.
    Saw on a US website that still sell rails for mine railways.
    For infrequent hobby use you would use?
    Access into mine limited - no adit (horizontal) access nor sloping
    decline - is shaft only.
    Wondered whether you could lower flat bar (rectangular section) down the shaft in long lengths and weld to steel "ties" to make a functioning
    railway (not going to need expansion joints down there - not many frosts
    and not much "solar gain" on heatwave days!).
    Saw on a video a coal mine in Pakistan where they use angle-iron for
    rails - shows rope-worked decline the wagons come to surface along.
    Which I take it is cost-justified?
    There are points / switches - cannot have double-flanged wheels to self-stabilise track, for what it's worth... And yes the tracks do
    snake around with curves in following the lodes.

    Angle / v-groove is common for rolling gates too.

    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff


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  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sun Jun 9 20:40:19 2024
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message
    news:m1v82jevqa.fsf@void.com... While on the topic - if you were
    renewing railway track in a mine,
    expedience the only concern - what would you use?

    ------------------------
    First, the Internet.
    http://www.ingr.co.uk/equip_sale.html

    Good point!

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  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon Jun 10 08:37:50 2024
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1jzj0bgsv.fsf@void.com...

    Hello all

    Yup really niche question this.

    Friend re-concreting his workshop floor, and intends to lay
    mine-railway tracks in it. Which runs out into the yard and enables
    machines which make a mess to be wheeled-out from stored safe and dry
    in the workshop to working some distance away given associated dust
    when running....
    Anyone know of an argument to choose one gauge over another? -------------------------------

    After thinking about it more, I'd much rather have a level paved
    walkway wide enough to allow rotating machines for long stock
    clearance or putting cut marks in sunlight and letting one pass
    another, inside and out. Indoors machines on swivel casters can be
    pushed sideways against each other, like my welding equipment. My
    basement (cellar) is at ground level in front and I roll the equipment
    into the driveway to make sparks or sawdust. (Not "and")

    Currently I'm cutting 6"x6"x16' oak beams that are difficult to
    maneuver even outside in the yard, around the house and up the hill
    into the woods to store them under cover. I suppose the best answer
    depends somewhat on the size/weight of his equipment (hammer-mill?)
    and what he makes, for me the longest steel assembly to be hoisted,
    drilled and handled is the 24' sawmill track. The heavyweight chip
    makers are the lathe and mill which are top heavy and spread sharp
    metal chips I don't really want scattered outdoors. "Mice" such as
    these are available to roll seriously heavy industrial machinery: https://www.ronmillsandcompany.com/products/mighty_mouse/

    Heavy duty wheels of custom width can be made from large pipe tires
    and small pipe hubs, bored smooth and to size (after welding the
    spokes) for needle bearings cut from gas welding rod. I made stainless
    ones for the platform stacker that shares a damp dirt shed floor with
    the tractor.

    A shop crane can become a self-loading trailer by putting planks to
    support the load across the legs and a trailer coupler on the mast
    end. Mine lifts 2000 Lbs and has larger added wheels to roll on
    dirt. One might be the simplest way to move the hammer mill or
    anything similar you might be tempted to acquire.

    The peril of having narrow gauge tracks: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-54118244

    Advantage of railway tracks over castors/wheels is can go far beyond the
    shed without big civils - tonnes of concrete making level roads, etc. ?

    Hammer mill 15HP drive and definitely "industrial".

    There is left-over mine-gauge equipment seeking a good home here, and
    maybe some nostalgia in actually having a bit of line.

    This is driven by my wanting to actually experience the realities of
    mineral processing.
    Start with a heap of "rocks" and end up with some metallic minerals.
    I'm getting better at spotting things.
    Beach walk Saturday - saw some "dirty" quartz and took samples to mine
    museum. Yes is mineralised - lot of iron. Someone guessed where it had
    come from, saying there was a drift mine off the beach (saw it - thought
    it was a drainage adit) which got about 50 tonnes of lead (?) before being abandoned.
    Some folk have piles of ore where can process some every now-and-again.

    Red River flowing clear these days despite South Crofty pumping-out -
    treat the water coming out of the mine to essentially drinking water
    grade, which dilutes down what's going into the adit from other mines.
    Great County Adit still runs very "ironey" - comes out near where I
    live.

    Volunteering at mine museum - they want to make some replicas as best
    possible given photos of equipment around the headframe. Given they are putting up a conserved timber headframe at the museum - last one used in Cornwall. The cage for the main shaft, etc.

    Best wishes to all,
    Rich Smith

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  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Richard Smith on Mon Jun 10 08:30:46 2024
    On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 08:37:50 +0100
    Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    This is driven by my wanting to actually experience the realities of
    mineral processing.
    Start with a heap of "rocks" and end up with some metallic minerals.
    I'm getting better at spotting things.

    A very different "mining" method you may find of interest :)

    https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/phytomining-harvesting-metal-through-plants/

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

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  • From Leon Fisk@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Mon Jun 10 14:36:37 2024
    On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 13:16:09 -0400
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    This very nice sighting compass was required for the agricultural students. >https://www.suunto.com/Products/Compasses/Suunto-KB-14/Suunto-KB-14360R1/

    Those are nice! I have their Duo with Clinometer added on. Sadly the
    Clinometer is a bit sticky and I didn't figure out the flaw till it
    was too late to return it. Compass works great. They even include a
    1/4x20 thread for mounting them on tripods.

    The Silva Ranger Compass works quite well too :)

    https://www.amazon.com/Silva-Advanced-Compass-Distance-Lanyard/dp/B079Y5CFPR/

    --
    Leon Fisk
    Grand Rapids MI

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  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Leon Fisk on Wed Jun 12 08:07:38 2024
    Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> writes:

    On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 08:37:50 +0100
    Richard Smith <null@void.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    This is driven by my wanting to actually experience the realities of >>mineral processing.
    Start with a heap of "rocks" and end up with some metallic minerals.
    I'm getting better at spotting things.

    A very different "mining" method you may find of interest :)

    https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/phytomining-harvesting-metal-through-plants/

    Makes sense to develop this.
    Heard of plants which absorb so much arsenic that logic says try to
    work-out what advantage they could be getting.

    If I recall, in history - eg. Roman times? - substances like iodine (?)
    were obtained from gathering, drying and burning seaweed - so in-essence "phytomining"

    Here in Cornwall there area areas of mine tailings where nothing has
    grown in more than 150 years

    http://www.weldsmith.co.uk/tech/minerals/240405_aspr/240403_ode_arsenopyrite.html
    "Ode to Arsenopyrite"

    Best wishes,
    Rich S

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  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 23 20:38:32 2024
    Gauges of mine railways - I've found - with a tape-measure:
    18inch
    22inch / 1ft 10inch
    24inch / 2ft

    Didn't know of 22inch gauge before - find that is/was also the gauge of
    the railway around the Guinness brewery in Dublin, Ireland

    Metric equivalent gauges which seem to exist elsewhere
    18inch <=> 460mm
    22inch <=> 560mm
    24inch <=> 600mm

    So, yes, didn't know of those.
    A mine I am "volunteered to" has 18inch.
    Friend I was thinking of when asking here - it did come down to what
    he's managed to blag, and that is the 22inch gauge.

    Okay - well, that's a more complex picture than I knew about.

    Sorry if asked this already - if you wanted to lay line cheaply - you'd
    go with flat-bar on its thin edge, welded to any steel you could find as
    ties, set to gauge and with curvature, in-situ? Bend the more
    "restricted" - by clearance to things around, etc.? - first, and use a
    gauging guide to set the other rail relative to it and weld-off to the
    ties ("sleepers" in UK-speak) ?
    Not sure how going to get a welding machine (electric) powered-up down
    the mine, though. No compressed-air-powered welding machine as I know
    of... (?!).
    (*
    90 ;; Amps
    20 ;; Volts
    ) ;; 1800
    With 2.5mm 7018 you'd need 1.8kW - call it 2kW.

    I commented as a question - down a mine you wouldn't need expansion
    joints due to the near constancy of temperature?
    Something like 100m of track might benefit from being re-laid anew.

    Regards,
    Rich S

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  • From Richard Smith@21:1/5 to Jim Wilkins on Sun Jun 30 10:09:05 2024
    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1zfrbqwjr.fsf@void.com...

    Friend I was thinking of when asking here - it did come down to what
    he's managed to blag, and that is the 22inch gauge.

    ---------------------- https://www.theliverpudlian.com/post/scouse-slang-a-list-of-18-essential-scouse-slang-words-phrases-used-in-the-liverpool-city-region

    Scousers :-)

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