• "Usenet is a cesspool, a dung heap." - Patrick A. Townson, The UNIX-HAT

    From Paul W. Schleck@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 14 13:41:08 2023
    XPost: alt.culture.usenet, news.groups

    "It was deeply ironic that this former moderator of Telecom Digest would
    bash Usenet on an ongoing basis, while he was also gatewaying the Digest
    to the moderated Usenet newsgroup comp.dcom.telecom, presumably because
    it reached a wide audience there."

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ClassicUsenet/comments/16er4nv/usenet_is_a_cesspool_a_dung_heap_patrick_a/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to Paul W. Schleck on Sat Oct 14 15:27:26 2023
    XPost: alt.culture.usenet, news.groups

    Paul W. Schleck <pschleck@panix.com> wrote:

    "It was deeply ironic that this former moderator of Telecom Digest would
    bash Usenet on an ongoing basis, while he was also gatewaying the Digest
    to the moderated Usenet newsgroup comp.dcom.telecom, presumably because
    it reached a wide audience there."

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ClassicUsenet/comments/16er4nv/usenet_is_a_cesspool_a_dung_heap_patrick_a/

    What is it that you are doing, Paul? You don't even know who Patrick
    Townson was nor what had happened. How are you contributing anything to cultural understanding of Usenet with a quote entirely out of context?

    The story I heard, years later, was that this was about the newgrouping
    of comp.dcom.telecom.tech in 1993, a redundant unmoderated newsgroup.

    Townson had serious health issues. He had been a little active in
    the Chicago UNIX community earlier, and ran the Telecom Digest as a
    hobby. Basically he took email messages, reformatted them to make sure
    they were plain text and of consistent line length, approved them for
    both the moderated gatewayed mailing list and newsgroup, and digestified
    them for those who didn't want to read individual messages, which created Telecom Digest. The telecom community was once incredibly active on Usenet.

    It took a lot of effort on his part, especially because if you've ever subscribed to a mailing list, idiots will reply to THE ENTIRE DIGEST
    instead of undigestifying it first (very simple to do) and then replying
    to the underlying message. Replies to the entire digest wouldn't have
    gotten approved by the list moderator but in Townson's case, he might
    have extracted the reply from the mess if it was well written, and then approved that for posting.

    During one of the periods in which his health was especially poor, alt.dcom.telecom was newgrouped in 1991 as an unmoderated group so
    there could be some Usenet communication by the community.

    In 1993, tale was on one of his Usenet reorganization binges and
    decided, without understanding the situation, that Townson wasn't a
    suitable moderator and was too heavy handed. Townson felt tale was
    attacking him, which he was. Townson lobbied against newgrouping yet
    another unmoderated telecom newsgroup on Usenet (of which there were
    already quite a few) and that the proposed group was meant, in part, to
    counter his alleged heavy-handed moderation.

    Townson said the proposed group, comp.dcom.telecom.tech, was redundant
    of the existing alt.dcom.telecom and all the other unmoderated groups.

    In Usenet voting, tale had a rule that lobbying for or against the vote
    to newgroup by certain people -- singling out Townson -- was forbidden.
    There was something like arguments were allowed in news.groups only and encouraging voting one way or the other in other newsgroups and on
    mailing lists wasn't allowed. tale was being ridiculous.

    The vote lost. tale blamed Townson and to punish him, declared that the
    vote had won and newgrouped it anyway.

    If you check the archived newgroup message, it's claimed that there was
    going to be an active telecom mailing list gated into the group. I sure
    don't remember that had ever happened, or if it was truly expected to
    happen shortly or if it was wishful thinking on tale's part or if he
    just said it to justify his own unusual actions.

    In any event, history demonstrated that tale was wrong and Townson was
    correct. I never saw the gatewayed mailing list. comp.dcom.telecom.tech
    was never an active newsgroup.

    I suspect that the out-of-context Townson quote was about tale's unusual handling of the newgrouping of comp.dcom.telecom.tech.

    I knew Townson slightly in real life and spoke to him in person a few
    times. He was the Greyhound agent at the Skokie Swift station in years
    and just had an interest in telephony as a hobby.

    He's been dead for a couple of decades.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to Paul W. Schleck on Sat Oct 14 16:48:05 2023
    XPost: alt.culture.usenet, news.groups

    In article <uge5pk$kkt$1@reader2.panix.com>,
    Paul W. Schleck <pschleck@panix.com> wrote:
    "It was deeply ironic that this former moderator of Telecom Digest would
    bash Usenet on an ongoing basis, while he was also gatewaying the Digest
    to the moderated Usenet newsgroup comp.dcom.telecom, presumably because
    it reached a wide audience there."

    This is what it's like being a moderator of a Usenet group gatewayed to
    a mailing list. The mailing list users are a small and relatively self-selected group of people. The people on the Usenet side are
    circulating in and out as people move through, and they are much more apt
    to be ill-informed, not understanding the group culture, and angry about something.

    At least this was the case back when Townson was running comp.dcom.telecom. Now, there are less likely to be random angry people showing up in the
    group out of nowhere, as there are fewer new people coming into Usenet. But there is much more likely to be a lot of spam, as there are fewer people actively managing Usenet servers and Google Groups is being run unattended.

    There is nothing more likely to make a person bash Usenet than making them
    a moderator.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)