XPost: alt.os.linux.mint

X-posted: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.mint

"Ubuntu 22.10 is making a big change to the future of the Ubuntu Linux distribution line, by switching the audio server setup from PulseAudio to PipeWire.
The news was confirmed officially by Canonical Employee and Ubuntu Desktop Developer, Heather Ellsworth, on the Ubuntu Discourse thread about the topic,(...)
Other popular distributions that use PipeWire are Fedora, EndeavourOS and Slackware."
Article:
https://www.ghacks.net/2022/05/23/ubuntu-22-10-dropping-pulseaudio/
PipeWire:
https://pipewire.org/

Linux Mint will follow, I presume.
I don't use PulseAudio and see no reason why I should use PipeWire.

Yrrah

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X-posted: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.ubuntu

"Ubuntu 22.10 is making a big change to the future of the Ubuntu Linux distribution line, by switching the audio server setup from PulseAudio to PipeWire.
The news was confirmed officially by Canonical Employee and Ubuntu Desktop Developer, Heather Ellsworth, on the Ubuntu Discourse thread about the topic,(...)
Other popular distributions that use PipeWire are Fedora, EndeavourOS and Slackware."
Article:
https://www.ghacks.net/2022/05/23/ubuntu-22-10-dropping-pulseaudio/
PipeWire:
https://pipewire.org/

Linux Mint will follow, I presume.
I don't use PulseAudio and see no reason why I should use PipeWire.

Yrrah

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XPost: alt.os.linux.mint

Am Montag, 23. Mai 2022, um 14:40:06 Uhr schrieb Yrrah:

"Ubuntu 22.10 is making a big change to the future of the Ubuntu Linux distribution line, by switching the audio server setup from
PulseAudio to PipeWire.

At least in kinetic the packages are available, so we can maybe switch
back if something isn't working. https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=pulseaudio

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XPost: alt.os.linux.mint

On 5/23/22 09:47, this is what Marco Moock wrote:

Am Montag, 23. Mai 2022, um 14:40:06 Uhr schrieb Yrrah:

"Ubuntu 22.10 is making a big change to the future of the Ubuntu Linux
distribution line, by switching the audio server setup from
PulseAudio to PipeWire.

At least in kinetic the packages are available, so we can maybe switch
back if something isn't working. https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=pulseaudio

I think pulse audio is the sound app in Cinnamon Mint. It's installed & running on my system.

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XPost: alt.os.linux.mint

Am Montag, 23. Mai 2022, um 15:04:32 Uhr schrieb Big Al:

I think pulse audio is the sound app in Cinnamon Mint. It's
installed & running on my system.

It is the sound system and provides pavucontrol as a user interface.

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XPost: alt.os.linux, alt.os.linux.mint

On 23/05/2022 13:35, Yrrah wrote:

X-posted: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.ubuntu

"Ubuntu 22.10 is making a big change to the future of the Ubuntu Linux distribution line, by switching the audio server setup from PulseAudio to PipeWire.
The news was confirmed officially by Canonical Employee and Ubuntu Desktop Developer, Heather Ellsworth, on the Ubuntu Discourse thread about the topic,(...)
Other popular distributions that use PipeWire are Fedora, EndeavourOS and Slackware."
Article:
https://www.ghacks.net/2022/05/23/ubuntu-22-10-dropping-pulseaudio/
PipeWire:
https://pipewire.org/

Linux Mint will follow, I presume.
I don't use PulseAudio and see no reason why I should use PipeWire.

Yrrah

Is there anything safe these days?

Did they give any reasons why they are dropping "PulseAudio"?

I hope this world will continue to operate without PulseAudio!

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XPost: alt.os.linux, alt.os.linux.mint

On 5/23/2022 5:12 PM, Albert Arkwright wrote:

On 23/05/2022 13:35, Yrrah wrote:

X-posted: alt.os.linux.ubuntu,alt.os.linux.ubuntu

"Ubuntu 22.10 is making a big change to the future of the Ubuntu Linux
distribution line, by switching the audio server setup from PulseAudio to
PipeWire.
The news was confirmed officially by Canonical Employee and Ubuntu Desktop >> Developer, Heather Ellsworth, on the Ubuntu Discourse thread about the
topic,(...)
Other popular distributions that use PipeWire are Fedora, EndeavourOS and
Slackware."
Article:
https://www.ghacks.net/2022/05/23/ubuntu-22-10-dropping-pulseaudio/
PipeWire:
https://pipewire.org/

Linux Mint will follow, I presume.
I don't use PulseAudio and see no reason why I should use PipeWire.

Yrrah

Is there anything safe these days?

Did they give any reasons why they are dropping "PulseAudio"?

I hope this world will continue to operate without PulseAudio!

I think for most of us, the "endless sound wars" become more of
a "will my sound work", than any discussion about the merits
of the technical bits underneath. Think of the misery some
Audacity developer is going through right now.

Paul

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On Tue, 24 May 2022 14:42:44 +0200, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

[x-post reduced to ubuntu]

On 24.05.2022 01:45, Paul wrote:

I think for most of us, the "endless sound wars" become more of
a "will my sound work", than any discussion about the merits
of the technical bits underneath. Think of the misery some
Audacity developer is going through right now.

Indeed that's something I struggle with continuously; I'm running
two different Ubuntu versions (one very old, one quite up to date)
and both show the habit that the sound "vanishes", and I have to
seek where the problem is - and in most cases I just give up after
trying every control key, sound mixer, the configuration center,
every related GUI control, trying speakers on different hardware
ports (3.5mm, USB), etc. - So, BTW; is there some good source/link
where to look in such cases (Google searches didn't help in the past).

I do not have troubleshooting info, but while/when it works I would
dump pulse info and compare when it does not work.

pacmd info
pacmd dump
pactl list
pacmd list-cards

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[x-post reduced to ubuntu]

On 24.05.2022 01:45, Paul wrote:

I think for most of us, the "endless sound wars" become more of
a "will my sound work", than any discussion about the merits
of the technical bits underneath. Think of the misery some
Audacity developer is going through right now.

Indeed that's something I struggle with continuously; I'm running
two different Ubuntu versions (one very old, one quite up to date)
and both show the habit that the sound "vanishes", and I have to
seek where the problem is - and in most cases I just give up after
trying every control key, sound mixer, the configuration center,
every related GUI control, trying speakers on different hardware
ports (3.5mm, USB), etc. - So, BTW; is there some good source/link
where to look in such cases (Google searches didn't help in the past).

Janis

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XPost: alt.os.linux.mint

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>:

I think pulse audio is the sound app in Cinnamon Mint. It's
installed & running on my system.

It is the sound system and provides pavucontrol as a user interface.

Users don't need really PulseAudio and can cut out this middleware.

https://linuxhint.com/guide_linux_audio/

Yrrah

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XPost: alt.os.linux.mint

On 5/25/2022 4:41 PM, Aragorn wrote:

On 25.05.2022 at 16:26, Paul scribbled:

On 5/25/2022 12:36 PM, Yrrah wrote:

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>:

I think pulse audio is the sound app in Cinnamon Mint. It's
installed & running on my system.

It is the sound system and provides pavucontrol as a user
interface.

Users don't need really PulseAudio and can cut out this middleware.

https://linuxhint.com/guide_linux_audio/

Yrrah

They never did need it.

ALSA was doing it, before Pulse came along.

There was a plan to switch to something else from
ALSA, but Pulse came along and drove the other project
into a ditch.

PulseAudio does not replace ALSA; it runs ON TOP of it, and it offers
such things as sound multiplexing, which ALSA cannot do all by itself.

Even if you run Jack or Pipewire, then you're still using ALSA
underneath. PulseAudio, Jack and Pipewire are just different
front-ends to the underlying ALSA.

The strange part, was why was PulseAudio adopted (to hide ALSA?).

I know ALSA is still there. But by creating multiple sound
subsystems, it makes it harder for a developer to properly
support all of them.

At the time, I was using TVTime. When PulseAudio came along,
there was a plugin providing compatibility with ALSA applications.
When that plugin was yanked away soon after, TVTime stopped having sound.

It seemed to be that PulseAudio was "mostly new and shiny", is all I can figure.

It is really hard to tell who is doing ALSA support
for any new audio devices that come along. It seems to
have little in the way of visibility.

PulseAudio isn't doing anything, really. Not anything
that real people needed. Sending sound remotely to another PC ?
I don't remember people saying "gee, if only I could send
audio to another PC, it would be heroic". Most people
were wondering what all the fuss was about, when
breaking applications like TVTime seemed to be the "improvement".

So I guess Pipewire is "not having to admit you were wrong about PulseAudio".

One other effect of Pulse, was for a number of releases,
I could not have decent sound in a VM. That's because
some part of Pulse was running RT priority, and virtual machines
aren't the best place for such ideas.

Paul

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XPost: alt.os.linux.mint

On 25.05.2022 at 16:26, Paul scribbled:

On 5/25/2022 12:36 PM, Yrrah wrote:

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>:

I think pulse audio is the sound app in Cinnamon Mint. It's
installed & running on my system.

It is the sound system and provides pavucontrol as a user
interface.

Users don't need really PulseAudio and can cut out this middleware.

https://linuxhint.com/guide_linux_audio/

Yrrah

They never did need it.

ALSA was doing it, before Pulse came along.

There was a plan to switch to something else from
ALSA, but Pulse came along and drove the other project
into a ditch.

PulseAudio does not replace ALSA; it runs ON TOP of it, and it offers
such things as sound multiplexing, which ALSA cannot do all by itself.

Even if you run Jack or Pipewire, then you're still using ALSA
underneath. PulseAudio, Jack and Pipewire are just different
front-ends to the underlying ALSA.

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

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XPost: alt.os.linux.mint

On 5/25/2022 12:36 PM, Yrrah wrote:

Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>:

I think pulse audio is the sound app in Cinnamon Mint. It's
installed & running on my system.

It is the sound system and provides pavucontrol as a user interface.

Users don't need really PulseAudio and can cut out this middleware.

https://linuxhint.com/guide_linux_audio/

Yrrah

They never did need it.

ALSA was doing it, before Pulse came along.

There was a plan to switch to something else from
ALSA, but Pulse came along and drove the other project
into a ditch.

That might have been OSS4 at the time. There was
a suggestion that after ALSA, more effort be put into
OSS4 or later.

http://www.ubuntugeek.com/howto-install-oss4-in-ubuntu-10-04-lucid-for-better-sound-quality.html

Paul

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XPost: alt.os.linux.mint

On 26.05.2022 00:28, Dr. Noah Bodie wrote:

I thought everybody hated PA. I've never seen anything positive about it.

I cannot say that I have such a strong emotional relation to it.

The fact, though, that if I inspect the 'top' process list I see
it leading that list at rank #2 (w.r.t. "TIME+" demand immediately
after firefox) is something that unsettles me - to say the least;
I'd suspect at least a mis-design, given that I effectively don't
even use audio actively on that box (I obviously pay for something
I don't use).

Janis

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XPost: alt.os.linux.mint

I thought everybody hated PA. I've never seen anything positive about it.

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XPost: alt.os.linux.mint

On 25.05.2022 at 17:03, Paul scribbled:

On 5/25/2022 4:41 PM, Aragorn wrote:

PulseAudio does not replace ALSA; it runs ON TOP of it, and it
offers such things as sound multiplexing, which ALSA cannot do all
by itself.

Even if you run Jack or Pipewire, then you're still using ALSA
underneath. PulseAudio, Jack and Pipewire are just different
front-ends to the underlying ALSA.

The strange part, was why was PulseAudio adopted (to hide ALSA?).

Because,among other things, ceratin userspac esoftware started to have a
hard dependency on it. I seem to recall that Firefox began requiring it
for video playback.

It is really hard to tell who is doing ALSA support
for any new audio devices that come along. It seems to
have little in the way of visibility.

ALSA is in the kernel itself, so it's maintained by kernel developers.

PulseAudio isn't doing anything, really. Not anything
that real people needed.

PulseAudio allows for equalization, as well as other things, such as
effects. It also multiplexes sound, so that e.g. your audio playback
does not cut off notification sounds, and vice versa.

Sending sound remotely to another PC ?
I don't remember people saying "gee, if only I could send
audio to another PC, it would be heroic".

What about forwarding sound from virtual machines? What about sending
sound thin clients?

Remember, UNIX is a multi-user system.

One other effect of Pulse, was for a number of releases,
I could not have decent sound in a VM. That's because
some part of Pulse was running RT priority, and virtual machines
aren't the best place for such ideas.

All software has bugs, and especially new software that only just got introduced. PulseAudio did have its issues in the beginning, but it
now is much better. Pipewire on the other hand is still not at the same
level of stability, but it'll get there soon.


--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

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On 26.05.2022 at 01:19, Aragorn scribbled:

Because,among other things, ceratin userspac esoftware started to
have a hard dependency on it. I seem to recall that Firefox began
requiring it for video playback.

Wow, my typing is really improving... :p

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

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On 5/25/22 16:19, Aragorn wrote:

All software has bugs, and especially new software that only just got introduced. PulseAudio did have its issues in the beginning, but it
now is much better.

Agreed. Not sure why I'm in the minority here, but I actually really
like pulseaudio. I'm using pipewire and a few testing VMs but pulseaudio
has been pretty solid for my use.

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