I seem to have some issues with the updates of Mozilla software on a
Xubuntu laptop I currently use.

I either want to (deliberately) deactivate automatic updates (or have
some way to fix issues related with the updates). It is concerning
Firefox and Thunderbird.

Firefox updates seems to be done in the background, and if there's some
new version installed (without my explicit confirmation or consent) my
current Tabs in all open windows become defunct, and I am requested to
restart Firefox with all Windows and Tab sessions. - What can I do to
avoid that behavior (or disable the automatic updates, if nothing else
can be done)?

Thunderbird has some undesired GUI layouts that I thought to had been
able to change myself in an earlier version. Now I see that bad GUI
layout again. The GUI default for Newsgroup accounts is in that order:
Reply (per email), Followup (to newsgroup), Forward (to newsgroup??),
etc. I thought I had that in a previous version configured in a more
sensible way; preferred channel for replying to a Usenet post should
(IMO) be a newsgroup and not an email address. Anyway.
I don't expect that to get "fixed" but was under the impression that
it can be user-configured what buttons I see at which positions. I've
found such a function for the menu bar on top of the window, but not
for the menu of the window part where the post I want to reply to are.
Any hints how to reconfigure that layout or any other possibilities to
address that issue?

Getting older/better versions (and disabling auto-updates - how?) of
the software would of course be one "solution" (though sub-optimal).

Thanks.

Janis

PS: I tried posting to the mozilla.support.thunderbird newsgroup but
it seems that newsgroup doesn't allow posts?

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On 6/15/22 18:44, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

I seem to have some issues with the updates of Mozilla software on a
Xubuntu laptop I currently use.

I either want to (deliberately) deactivate automatic updates (or have
some way to fix issues related with the updates). It is concerning
Firefox and Thunderbird.

Firefox updates seems to be done in the background, and if there's some
new version installed (without my explicit confirmation or consent) my current Tabs in all open windows become defunct, and I am requested to restart Firefox with all Windows and Tab sessions. - What can I do to
avoid that behavior (or disable the automatic updates, if nothing else
can be done)?

Thunderbird has some undesired GUI layouts that I thought to had been
able to change myself in an earlier version. Now I see that bad GUI
layout again. The GUI default for Newsgroup accounts is in that order:
Reply (per email), Followup (to newsgroup), Forward (to newsgroup??),
etc. I thought I had that in a previous version configured in a more
sensible way; preferred channel for replying to a Usenet post should
(IMO) be a newsgroup and not an email address. Anyway.
I don't expect that to get "fixed" but was under the impression that
it can be user-configured what buttons I see at which positions. I've
found such a function for the menu bar on top of the window, but not
for the menu of the window part where the post I want to reply to are.
Any hints how to reconfigure that layout or any other possibilities to address that issue?

Getting older/better versions (and disabling auto-updates - how?) of
the software would of course be one "solution" (though sub-optimal).

Thanks.

Janis

PS: I tried posting to the mozilla.support.thunderbird newsgroup but
it seems that newsgroup doesn't allow posts?

If you can use a search engine like DuckDuckGo you can probably find help on the Internet.
You would need to search on "disable auto-update" and "configure Thunderbird gui"
Of maybe from the Menu item Edit you could go into Preferences
(at the bottom of the list) and change some checked boxes.

bliss - brought to you by the power and ease of PCLinuxOS,
the Perfect Computer Linux Operating System,
and a minor case of hypergraphia.

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

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Janis Papanagnou wrote:

PS: I tried posting to the mozilla.support.thunderbird newsgroup but
it seems that newsgroup doesn't allow posts?

**THIS FORUM WILL BE SHUT DOWN SOON** https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.firefox/c/SxAJiCEQZAQ

alt.comp.software.firefox
alt.comp.software.thunderbird
alt.comp.software.seamonkey
have been created https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.firefox/c/SxAJiCEQZAQ/m/0GaaGfsCCQAJ

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Janis Papanagnou wrote:

...
Firefox updates seems to be done in the background, and if there's some
new version installed (without my explicit confirmation or consent) my >current Tabs in all open windows become defunct, and I am requested to >restart Firefox with all Windows and Tab sessions. - What can I do to
avoid that behavior (or disable the automatic updates, if nothing else
can be done)?

Same problem here with Firefox 101.0.1 (64-Bit).
Could not find the "Disable updates" button.
Do I need to visit ophthalmologist?

Regards,
H.

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On Thu, 16 Jun 2022 11:54:54 +0200, Heinz Schmitz wrote:

Janis Papanagnou wrote:

...
Firefox updates seems to be done in the background, and if there's some
new version installed (without my explicit confirmation or consent) my >>current Tabs in all open windows become defunct, and I am requested to >>restart Firefox with all Windows and Tab sessions. - What can I do to
avoid that behavior (or disable the automatic updates, if nothing else
can be done)?

Same problem here with Firefox 101.0.1 (64-Bit).
Could not find the "Disable updates" button.
Do I need to visit ophthalmologist?

Regards,
H.

You find yourself in a world of 'snaps'.
Do you...

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mechanic wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jun 2022 11:54:54 +0200, Heinz Schmitz wrote:

Janis Papanagnou wrote:

...
Firefox updates seems to be done in the background, and if there's some
new version installed (without my explicit confirmation or consent) my
current Tabs in all open windows become defunct, and I am requested to
restart Firefox with all Windows and Tab sessions. - What can I do to
avoid that behavior (or disable the automatic updates, if nothing else
can be done)?

Same problem here with Firefox 101.0.1 (64-Bit).
Could not find the "Disable updates" button.
Do I need to visit ophthalmologist?

Regards,
H.

You find yourself in a world of 'snaps'.
Do you...

If it is the snap version (which can have UI issues with current DE),
remove and use the deb version. One reference: <https://linuxiac.com/install-firefox-from-deb-on-ubuntu-22-04-lts/>

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

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Am Donnerstag, 16. Juni 2022, um 03:44:48 Uhr schrieb Janis Papanagnou:

I either want to (deliberately) deactivate automatic updates (or have
some way to fix issues related with the updates). It is concerning
Firefox and Thunderbird.

Do you use the deb versions (installed via apt) or the snap version?
Use whereis firefox to find out the path.

Additionally, it is not recommended not to install updates.
Automatic updates of the apt packages are handled by
unattended-upgrades.

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On 6/15/2022 9:44 PM, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

I seem to have some issues with the updates of Mozilla software on a
Xubuntu laptop I currently use.

I either want to (deliberately) deactivate automatic updates (or have
some way to fix issues related with the updates). It is concerning
Firefox and Thunderbird.

Firefox updates seems to be done in the background, and if there's some
new version installed (without my explicit confirmation or consent) my current Tabs in all open windows become defunct, and I am requested to restart Firefox with all Windows and Tab sessions. - What can I do to
avoid that behavior (or disable the automatic updates, if nothing else
can be done)?

Thunderbird has some undesired GUI layouts that I thought to had been
able to change myself in an earlier version. Now I see that bad GUI
layout again. The GUI default for Newsgroup accounts is in that order:
Reply (per email), Followup (to newsgroup), Forward (to newsgroup??),
etc. I thought I had that in a previous version configured in a more
sensible way; preferred channel for replying to a Usenet post should
(IMO) be a newsgroup and not an email address. Anyway.
I don't expect that to get "fixed" but was under the impression that
it can be user-configured what buttons I see at which positions. I've
found such a function for the menu bar on top of the window, but not
for the menu of the window part where the post I want to reply to are.
Any hints how to reconfigure that layout or any other possibilities to address that issue?

Getting older/better versions (and disabling auto-updates - how?) of
the software would of course be one "solution" (though sub-optimal).

Thanks.

Janis

PS: I tried posting to the mozilla.support.thunderbird newsgroup but
it seems that newsgroup doesn't allow posts?

bullwinkle@MINTBOX:~$ cat /usr/lib/firefox/distribution/policies.json
{
"policies":
{
"DisableAppUpdate": true
}
}
bullwinkle@MINTBOX:~$

But I doubt that will have much control, except against inside-the-tool updating behavior.

A snap will update any time it feels like. The hold timer isn't likely
to be of much usage.

The distro could have a new .deb in it, but then it might take
a distro version upgrade to drag that in and break things.

It's hard to tell whether Thunderbird honors that method -- even if
Thunderbird displays the existence of it, does not mean logic elsewhere
in the program responds to such a control mechanism. Breaking out
of the Thunderbird jail, to check, is all part of the fun.

You also have the option of using the HOSTS file to block access
to certain domains. Or if you're fluent in firewall modification,
maybe certain outgoing requests can be blocked.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/Y0YCkyKt/policies-json.gif

Paul

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On 16/06/2022 14:10, mechanic wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jun 2022 11:54:54 +0200, Heinz Schmitz wrote:

Janis Papanagnou wrote:

...
Firefox updates seems to be done in the background, and if there's some
new version installed (without my explicit confirmation or consent) my
current Tabs in all open windows become defunct, and I am requested to
restart Firefox with all Windows and Tab sessions. - What can I do to
avoid that behavior (or disable the automatic updates, if nothing else
can be done)?

Same problem here with Firefox 101.0.1 (64-Bit).
Could not find the "Disable updates" button.
Do I need to visit ophthalmologist?

Regards,
H.

You find yourself in a world of 'snaps'.
Do you...

start by doing "snap list" (without the quotes, of course)

The problim IMHO is that snap takes the Microsoft view:
"You have installed snap, and now all decisions, updates, versions, are ours..."
Which makes things a lot more convenient for develpers,
and less convenient for you, if you want to make what they (the developers, the snap ecology) consider non-statndard
tweaks.
Snap also makes non-standard and immutable changes in your disk layout.

From personal experience, you can run Ubuntu up to and including V20.04 without snap.
The WWW is full of advice on how to do that -- Google/DuckDuck/etc. are your friends.

HTH.
Mike

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Am Donnerstag, 16. Juni 2022, um 18:57:30 Uhr schrieb Henry Crun:

From personal experience, you can run Ubuntu up to and including
V20.04 without snap.

You can also run 22.04 without snap. Some packages just aren't
available anymore in the Ubuntu repository - like Firefox and Chromium.
You can use other repositories to install them via apt - no problem
here.

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Marco Moock wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 16. Juni 2022, um 03:44:48 Uhr schrieb Janis Papanagnou:

I either want to (deliberately) deactivate automatic updates (or have
some way to fix issues related with the updates). It is concerning
Firefox and Thunderbird.

Do you use the deb versions (installed via apt) or the snap version?
Use whereis firefox to find out the path.

My self-updating firefox 101.0.1 (64-Bit) on ubuntu 18.04 (64-Bit)
gives:
"whereis firefox

firefox: /usr/bin/firefox /usr/lib/firefox /etc/firefox
/usr/share/man/man1/firefox.1.gz"

and "snap --list all"

gives no hint of firefox being present there.

Additionally, it is not recommended not to install updates.

That's ok, but I don't want to be interrupted by an update.

Automatic updates of the apt packages are handled by
unattended-upgrades.

Regards,
H.

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Henry Crun wrote:

From personal experience, you can run Ubuntu up to and including V20.04 without snap.
The WWW is full of advice on how to do that -- Google/DuckDuck/etc. are your friends.

I'm still on 18.04 and they pushed snaps onto me :-(.

Should I move on to Mint?

Regards,
H.

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Am Freitag, 17. Juni 2022, um 15:20:39 Uhr schrieb Heinz Schmitz:

I'm still on 18.04 and they pushed snaps onto me :-(.

Should I move on to Mint?

I recommend Debian instead. But you can still use Ubuntu without snap,
just use a repo for Firefox/Chromium if you need them.

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On 6/17/2022 9:33 AM, Heinz Schmitz wrote:

Marco Moock wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 16. Juni 2022, um 03:44:48 Uhr schrieb Janis Papanagnou:

I either want to (deliberately) deactivate automatic updates (or have
some way to fix issues related with the updates). It is concerning
Firefox and Thunderbird.

Do you use the deb versions (installed via apt) or the snap version?
Use whereis firefox to find out the path.

My self-updating firefox 101.0.1 (64-Bit) on ubuntu 18.04 (64-Bit)
gives:
"whereis firefox

firefox: /usr/bin/firefox /usr/lib/firefox /etc/firefox
/usr/share/man/man1/firefox.1.gz"

and "snap --list all"

gives no hint of firefox being present there.

Additionally, it is not recommended not to install updates.

That's ok, but I don't want to be interrupted by an update.

Automatic updates of the apt packages are handled by
unattended-upgrades.

Regards,
H.

snap list

works OK here and Firefox is in the list.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/7hVHbbs3/snap-list-ubuntu.gif

Snap has a delay timer for updates, presumably similar to
how Microsoft can delay updates for a limited period, but
this is not a good way to run a computer. That's just
patronizing. It's still "our computer" after all. The computer
does not belong to Canonical. The computer does not belong
to Microsoft.

There are plenty of discouraging developments, such
as Intels proposal of "rental silicon".

https://lwn.net/Articles/884876/

SDSi will enable shipping CPUs with features that may be of
interest to users, but which are unavailable unless
additional payments are made.

And that means, when you want to use a feature, you'll
have the application software to worry about, as well
as whether "your SDSi is busted".

Paul

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On 6/17/2022 9:50 AM, Marco Moock wrote:

Am Freitag, 17. Juni 2022, um 15:20:39 Uhr schrieb Heinz Schmitz:

I'm still on 18.04 and they pushed snaps onto me :-(.

Should I move on to Mint?

I recommend Debian instead. But you can still use Ubuntu without snap,
just use a repo for Firefox/Chromium if you need them.

I tested Debian recently. NOT recommended.
Sure, they have the motherlode of .deb in their
hot hands. But the fit and finish (the amount of
work you will be doing to maintain your new OS)
is too high.

If you do install Debian, be prepared to be "more appreciative"
of the amount of work Canonical is doing in Ubuntu, to fix all
the tiny details Debian missed.

Canonical may be evil ("snap"), but they do have the
skills to make an OS a mere user can use.

Then Mint attempts to take some of the evil out of
what is in Ubuntu ("snap off").

Currently, the only thing I don't like about Mint, is
the deal with Mozilla on Firefox. Firefox is now a package
you can't build from source any more, using Synaptic/APT
to do it. I had to resort to hg and building a Nightly,
which is not what I wanted to do. I wanted to build
a debug version of the Firefox (101.0) currently in Mint UMA.

To give an example of Firefox trouble, if I install
Zorin, launch Firefox and do "about", it is version 101.0 or so.
If I do:

apt source firefox
sudo apt build-dep firefox

then I get version 75 placed on my disk, which does not match
the binary that is shipping. Lots of obfuscation, not
a lot of traceability and "many eyes to check the source".

And rather than being a "WONTFIX", it would appear that
some development likely wasn't finished or wasn't finished
properly. That's all I can guess, as I built Nightly instead
of what I wanted to build (Debug 101.0).

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/KvP0Cx6P/encumbered-software-is-the-future.gif

Meanwhile, Debian itself (if you installed it), would give
you some ESR version.

Paul

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On 17/06/2022 16:20, Heinz Schmitz wrote:

Henry Crun wrote:

From personal experience, you can run Ubuntu up to and including V20.04 without snap.
The WWW is full of advice on how to do that -- Google/DuckDuck/etc. are your friends.

I'm still on 18.04 and they pushed snaps onto me :-(.

Should I move on to Mint?

Regards,
H.

As I mentioned in a previous post, you can stay on Ubuntu (and even upgrade) without having snap.
see e.g.: https://cialu.net/how-to-disable-and-remove-completely-snaps-in-ubuntu-linux/

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On 16.06.2022 14:05, Marco Moock wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 16. Juni 2022, um 03:44:48 Uhr schrieb Janis Papanagnou:

I either want to (deliberately) deactivate automatic updates (or have
some way to fix issues related with the updates). It is concerning
Firefox and Thunderbird.

Do you use the deb versions (installed via apt) or the snap version?

(I seem to recall to have removed/disabled snap quite some time ago,
but I don't recall the details. There's still a snap in /usr/bin/ .)

Use whereis firefox to find out the path.

It's in /usr/bin /usr/lib /etc and /usr/share/man/...

Additionally, it is not recommended not to install updates.

(Since decades, with Linux, I had generally issues with updates, not
with not doing updates. I am running an old system and one that gets
regularly updated. Both ways have their advantages and drawbacks. But
I don't want to discuss that. I have issues with the updated platform
not with the legacy one.)

Thanks.

Janis

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On 19/06/2022 10:21, Henry Crun wrote:

On 19/06/2022 8:16, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

On 16.06.2022 14:05, Marco Moock wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 16. Juni 2022, um 03:44:48 Uhr schrieb Janis Papanagnou:

I either want to (deliberately) deactivate automatic updates (or have
some way to fix issues related with the updates). It is concerning
Firefox and Thunderbird.

Do you use the deb versions (installed via apt) or the snap version?

(I seem to recall to have removed/disabled snap quite some time ago,
but I don't recall the details. There's still a snap in /usr/bin/ .)

Use whereis firefox to find out the path.

It's in /usr/bin /usr/lib /etc and /usr/share/man/...

Additionally, it is not recommended not to install updates.

(Since decades, with Linux, I had generally issues with updates, not
with not doing updates. I am running an old system and one that gets
regularly updated. Both ways have their advantages and drawbacks. But
I don't want to discuss that. I have issues with the updated platform
not with the legacy one.)

Thanks.

Janis

try using Google to search for "ubuntu disble firefox update" (drop the quote marks)
then read the items listed there.

correction: its "disable" !!

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On 19/06/2022 8:16, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

On 16.06.2022 14:05, Marco Moock wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 16. Juni 2022, um 03:44:48 Uhr schrieb Janis Papanagnou:

I either want to (deliberately) deactivate automatic updates (or have
some way to fix issues related with the updates). It is concerning
Firefox and Thunderbird.

Do you use the deb versions (installed via apt) or the snap version?

(I seem to recall to have removed/disabled snap quite some time ago,
but I don't recall the details. There's still a snap in /usr/bin/ .)

Use whereis firefox to find out the path.

It's in /usr/bin /usr/lib /etc and /usr/share/man/...

Additionally, it is not recommended not to install updates.

(Since decades, with Linux, I had generally issues with updates, not
with not doing updates. I am running an old system and one that gets regularly updated. Both ways have their advantages and drawbacks. But
I don't want to discuss that. I have issues with the updated platform
not with the legacy one.)

Thanks.

Janis

try using Google to search for "ubuntu disble firefox update" (drop the quote marks)
then read the items listed there.

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Paul wrote:

My self-updating firefox 101.0.1 (64-Bit) on ubuntu 18.04 (64-Bit)
gives:
"whereis firefox

firefox: /usr/bin/firefox /usr/lib/firefox /etc/firefox
/usr/share/man/man1/firefox.1.gz"

and "snap --list all"

gives no hint of firefox being present there.

snap list

works OK here and Firefox is in the list.
[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/7hVHbbs3/snap-list-ubuntu.gif

Well, it's definitely not so on my PC.

As I seem to remember, snap is rather new. So what would a PC do,
when set up some time before the introduction of snap? Maybe that the
lucky people had firefox installed already, before getting blessed
with snap?
That, otoh, would indicate, that the spontaneous updates are a feature
of firefox itself, rather than modifications of the OS.

Snap has a delay timer for updates, presumably similar to
how Microsoft can delay updates for a limited period, but
this is not a good way to run a computer. That's just
patronizing. It's still "our computer" after all. The computer
does not belong to Canonical. The computer does not belong
to Microsoft.

Since the introduction of Windows, we have been expropriated.
With Android it is obvious, since there is software junk on it, which
cannot even be deleted.
With the -nixes it is more delicately done, but what do you "own",
if there are 270.000 files on the machine :-)?

Regards,
H.

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On 16.06.2022 08:17, Andrei Z. wrote:

alt.comp.software.firefox
alt.comp.software.thunderbird

have been created

Not all newsgroup servers seem to support these newgroups (e.g. aioe
doesn't, but eternal-september does).

I'm trying to get answers to my TB-related question at the respective
newsgroup above. Thanks.

Janis

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On 6/19/2022 6:00 AM, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

On 16.06.2022 08:17, Andrei Z. wrote:

alt.comp.software.firefox
alt.comp.software.thunderbird

have been created

Not all newsgroup servers seem to support these newgroups (e.g. aioe
doesn't, but eternal-september does).

I'm trying to get answers to my TB-related question at the respective newsgroup above. Thanks.

Janis

I think it's on AIOE. Both of them.

Just a random google search against site:aioe.org

https://news.aioe.org/newsdata/news-notice.2022.01.04-04.15.02.html

29 alt.comp.software.thunderbird 1064
41 alt.comp.software.seamonkey 754
63 alt.comp.software.firefox 428

Newer versions of Thunderbird, access and refresh the newsgroup
list when you inspect the subscription list function. This
helps ensure the list is up to date. Older versions, the
list updating was more manual, and then you might not
notice the groups in question.

Paul

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On 19.06.22 12:39, Paul wrote:

On 6/19/2022 6:00 AM, Janis Papanagnou wrote:

On 16.06.2022 08:17, Andrei Z. wrote:

alt.comp.software.firefox
alt.comp.software.thunderbird

have been created

Not all newsgroup servers seem to support these newgroups (e.g. aioe
doesn't, but eternal-september does).
[...]

I think it's on AIOE. Both of them.
[...]
Newer versions of Thunderbird, access and refresh the newsgroup
list when you inspect the subscription list function. This
helps ensure the list is up to date. Older versions, the
list updating was more manual, and then you might not
notice the groups in question.

Okay. On my newer (updated) system I at least see these groups
after manually refreshing the newsgroup list. - Thanks.

BTW, the quick answer from there (concerning rearrangement of
the TB GUI-buttons) was:

Previously that was possible natively, more recently it
requires an add-on "Message Header Toolbar Customize"


Janis

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Am Sonntag, 19. Juni 2022, um 12:00:23 Uhr schrieb Janis Papanagnou:

Not all newsgroup servers seem to support these newgroups (e.g. aioe
doesn't, but eternal-september does).

Then tell them so they will set them up and peer with others.

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Janis Papanagnou wrote:

On 16.06.2022 08:17, Andrei Z. wrote:

alt.comp.software.firefox
alt.comp.software.thunderbird

have been created

Not all newsgroup servers seem to support these newgroups (e.g. aioe
doesn't, but eternal-september does).

I'm trying to get answers to my TB-related question at the respective newsgroup above. Thanks.

Janis

Here
Server: nntp.aioe.org
Port: 119

An example http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Ct8bs62%24elf%241%40gioia.aioe.org%3E

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