Systemd having been in the news lately, more or less as an experiment, I thought of trying to remove systemd from an
Ubuntu 20.04 system (updated to the hilt).

There seemed to be a lot of help on the web
Unfortunately all the recipes
(e.g. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers#Permanent_switch_back_to_upstart)
started off with:
<quote>install the upstart-sysv package, which will remove ubuntu-standard and systemd-sysv</quote>

Tried that:
<quote>
$ sudo apt-get install upstart-sysv
[sudo] password for mike:
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Package upstart-sysv is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source
However the following packages replace it:
systemd-sysv:i386 systemd-sysv

E: Package 'upstart-sysv' has no installation candidate
</quote>

...so not much help.


Oh and, on https://upstart.ubuntu.com/download.html the suggestion was: <quote>Ubuntu: Packages of Upstart are available from all current releases.</quote>

Yeah, thanks.

Anybody got a workaround?

Any solution would be gratefully accepted.
Or should I just give up?

Mike

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Henry Crun <mike@rechtman.com> writes:

Any solution would be gratefully accepted.
Or should I just give up?

There are distributions whose selling point is ‘no systemd’,
e.g. https://www.devuan.org/.

For most people it’s just tilting at windmills. Unless you have a use
case that actually doesn’t work with systemd, I’d suggest you find something more useful to do with your time.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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On 7/11/22 05:49, Henry Crun wrote:

Systemd having been in the news lately, more or less as an experiment, I thought of trying to remove systemd from an Ubuntu 20.04 system (updated
to the hilt).

There seemed to be a lot of help on the web
Unfortunately all the recipes
(e.g. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers#Permanent_switch_back_to_upstart)
started off with:
<quote>install the upstart-sysv package, which will remove
ubuntu-standard and systemd-sysv</quote>

Tried that:
<quote>
$ sudo apt-get install  upstart-sysv
[sudo] password for mike:
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Package upstart-sysv is not available, but is referred to by another
package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source
However the following packages replace it:
  systemd-sysv:i386 systemd-sysv

E: Package 'upstart-sysv' has no installation candidate
</quote>

...so not much help.

Oh and, on https://upstart.ubuntu.com/download.html the suggestion was: <quote>Ubuntu: Packages of Upstart are available from all current releases.</quote>

Yeah, thanks.

Anybody got a workaround?

Any solution would be gratefully accepted.
Or should I just give up?

Mike

Why does anyone want to use Ubuntu if they don't
like systemd. Easier to take it out of Debian.
Or Porteus or half a dozen other excellent and systemd
free distributions.

I don't like the occasional full updates model and
prefer Rolling Releases like the one I use. You do have to
keep it updated.

bliss - brought to you by the power and ease of PCLinuxOS
the Perfect Computer Linus Operating System(for me),
and a minor case of hypergraphia

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

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Henry Crun wrote:

Systemd having been in the news lately, more or less as an experiment, I thought of trying to remove systemd from an Ubuntu 20.04 system (updated
to the hilt).

Instead of removing systemd, if you choose to try the very popular (by
DW pagehit rankings) MX Linux, you can boot w/ or w/o systemd.

When the GRUB screen is displayed at the very beginning of the boot process, click on Advanced options… and select to use systemd.

Also, the writeup at MX Linux on systemd done back in 2018 is worthwhile reading.

https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/systemd/ https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/systemd-overview/


--
Mike Easter

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On 11/07/2022 18:59, Mike Easter wrote:

Henry Crun wrote:

Systemd having been in the news lately, more or less as an experiment, I thought of trying to remove systemd from an
Ubuntu 20.04 system (updated to the hilt).

Instead of removing systemd, if you choose to try the very popular (by DW pagehit rankings) MX Linux, you can boot w/ or
w/o systemd.

When the GRUB screen is displayed at the very beginning of the boot process, click on Advanced options… and select to
use systemd.

Also, the writeup at MX Linux on systemd done back in 2018 is worthwhile reading.

https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/systemd/ https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/systemd-overview/

Replying to the three responders, all of whom suggested I switch distros:
The reason I use Ubuntu now is that I started with Warty Warthog (almost a decade ago, IIRC) and over the years have my
system just the way I like it. The last time I reinstalled, moving from 32-bit to 64-bit, it took me three months to get
evrything installed and tuned to my liking. I can even stand staying with systemd - my objection is more aesthetic than
practical.
Also as I mentioned this is more an experiment than it is an urgent need.

So thank you for your advice, which I am afraid I will not be taking (seriously, no sarcasm implied)
I guess I'll have to accept imperfection.

Mike Rechtman
Missile address: N31.7624/E34.9691

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On 7/11/2022 3:25 PM, Henry Crun wrote:

On 11/07/2022 18:59, Mike Easter wrote:

Henry Crun wrote:

Systemd having been in the news lately, more or less as an experiment, I thought of trying to remove systemd from an Ubuntu 20.04 system (updated to the hilt).

Instead of removing systemd, if you choose to try the very popular (by DW pagehit rankings) MX Linux, you can boot w/ or w/o systemd.

When the GRUB screen is displayed at the very beginning of the boot process, click on Advanced options… and select to use systemd.

Also, the writeup at MX Linux on systemd done back in 2018 is worthwhile reading.

https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/systemd/
https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/systemd-overview/

Replying to the three responders, all of whom suggested I switch distros:
The reason I use Ubuntu now is that I started with Warty Warthog (almost a decade ago, IIRC) and over the years have my system just the way I like it. The last time I reinstalled, moving from 32-bit to 64-bit, it took me three months to get evrything

installed and tuned to my liking. I can even stand staying with systemd - my objection is more aesthetic than practical.

Also as I mentioned this is more an experiment than it is an urgent need.

So thank you for your advice, which I am afraid I will not be taking (seriously, no sarcasm implied)
I guess I'll have to accept imperfection.

Mike Rechtman
Missile address: N31.7624/E34.9691

Gentoo takes the situation seriously, and you can install
a systemd system or use their regular init system. The only
weirdness, is the Ethernet port can never be "en0" -- systems
where systemd is an "option", the namespace for devices continues
to follow the systemd standard, rather than anything else. The
stink of systemd, never entirely escapes a machine.

On one of my Gentoo installs, networking did not come up
automatically, and that's because the configuration did not
grok the systemd name for the Ethernet port. I had to fix
that manually. The last Gentoo I did, this was handled
gracefully, so they did eventually fix this.

In my opinion, Ubuntu does more fit and finish, than is
absolutely necessary. I was able to add NVENC and NVDEC
to my copy of ffmpeg, simply because they'd done the work
to put the correct -dev packages in their tree. Some of the
things you find in there, are not accidents. FOSS rules
may not allow them to state the obvious, but like gold mining,
you can find interesting things in there. If some web page
says a feature exists, it might be "only a recipe away" to get it.

You would not expect flipping an INIT system to be easy.
Remember the complexity of what you're doing. Some of
these little recipes, will not be for the timid. I would
feel more comfortable from a theoretical point of view,
chrooting in and trying that, rather than doing it on a live system.

But as bar bets go, this is well past my abilities to pull off.

Paul

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Henry Crun wrote:

The reason I use Ubuntu now is that I started with Warty Warthog (almost
a decade ago, IIRC) and over the years have my system just the way I
like it. The last time I reinstalled, moving from 32-bit to 64-bit, it
took me three months to get evrything installed and tuned to my liking.
I can even stand staying with systemd - my objection is more aesthetic
than practical.

If I were trying to avoid reinstalling, I certainly wouldn't be
experimenting w/ removing systemd on my installed system.

Do you have Timeshift or some such strategy?

--
Mike Easter

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On 7/11/22 05:49, Henry Crun wrote:

Any solution would be gratefully accepted.
Or should I just give up?

Give up. I implore you.

If you're planning to use Ubuntu or any other deb-based or even
rpm-based modern linux distro, it'll have systemd (except for the ones
that refuse to migrate to it) ;)

Use a BSD or alternate (non-mainstream) Linux distro.
Systemd is here to stay (until it's replaced by the next init system).

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