https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy048rzjjjo
Air traffic controllers at Newark Liberty International
Airport briefly lost communications with planes under
their control, "unable to see, hear, or talk to them"
last week, a union spokesman has said.
The 28 April incident led to multiple employees being
placed on trauma leave, contributing to hundreds of
delayed or diverted flights. More than 150 flights have
been cancelled so far on Monday alone, according to
tracking website FlightAware.
The airport, one of New York's busiest hubs, has been
grappling with staff shortages for more than a week.
The Federal Aviation Administration acknowledged in a
statement that "our antiquated air traffic control
system is affecting our work force".
Confirming the controllers had taken leave following
the incident, the FAA said it could "not quickly
replace them".
"We continue to train controllers who will eventually
be assigned to this busy airspace," the statement said.
Air traffic control operations at the airport have come
under sustained criticism recently.
Last week, United Airlines announced it was cancelling
35 flights per day from its Newark schedule because the
airport "cannot handle the number of planes that are
scheduled to operate there".
"In the past few days, on more than one occasion,
technology that FAA air traffic controllers rely on
to manage the airplanes coming in and out of Newark
airport failed - resulting in dozens of diverted
flights, hundreds of delayed and cancelled flights,"
United CEO Scott Kirby said.
. . .
Competent staff aren't there.
The creaking-old tech is failing.
Over-capacity.
Off-the-record, staff warned travelers to
AVOID Newark lest they die.
Now I know some of you irrationally hate Musk, but
he IS on the case here
and points in the right
direction. MUCH better, and better integrated,
modern tech exists to replace all the creaky old
shit most airports are now using.
Now dealing with the competent ATC *staff* problem,
that's something entirely different. Joe/K would
have DEI-ed us into daily stories of flaming
crashes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy048rzjjjo
Trump, well, not sure he can implement the needed
changes FAST enough. I've a relative who was an
ATC ... you do NOT learn that in a two week course
or at Online-U - plus it takes a certain KIND of
high-focus Aspergery individual to keep all the shit
in mind and in order. Tech can HELP that, but not
eliminate the human requirements.
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in news:9KacnTel1cPN8YT1nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy048rzjjjo
Air traffic controllers at Newark Liberty International
Airport briefly lost communications with planes under
their control, "unable to see, hear, or talk to them"
last week, a union spokesman has said.
The 28 April incident led to multiple employees being
placed on trauma leave, contributing to hundreds of
delayed or diverted flights. More than 150 flights have
been cancelled so far on Monday alone, according to
tracking website FlightAware.
The airport, one of New York's busiest hubs, has been
grappling with staff shortages for more than a week.
The Federal Aviation Administration acknowledged in a
statement that "our antiquated air traffic control
system is affecting our work force".
Confirming the controllers had taken leave following
the incident, the FAA said it could "not quickly
replace them".
"We continue to train controllers who will eventually
be assigned to this busy airspace," the statement said.
Air traffic control operations at the airport have come
under sustained criticism recently.
Last week, United Airlines announced it was cancelling
35 flights per day from its Newark schedule because the
airport "cannot handle the number of planes that are
scheduled to operate there".
"In the past few days, on more than one occasion,
technology that FAA air traffic controllers rely on
to manage the airplanes coming in and out of Newark
airport failed - resulting in dozens of diverted
flights, hundreds of delayed and cancelled flights,"
United CEO Scott Kirby said.
. . .
Competent staff aren't there.
The creaking-old tech is failing.
Over-capacity.
Off-the-record, staff warned travelers to
AVOID Newark lest they die.
Now I know some of you irrationally hate Musk, but
he IS on the case here
What does Musk know about air traffic control?
and points in the right
direction. MUCH better, and better integrated,
modern tech exists to replace all the creaky old
shit most airports are now using.
Fire the controllers, chaos results,
"who could have predecited this"
Now dealing with the competent ATC *staff* problem,
that's something entirely different. Joe/K would
have DEI-ed us into daily stories of flaming
crashes.
Funny how the system worked fine
before Trump/Musk took over and started
fucking with it.
Just a cooincidence, right?
Off-the-record, staff warned travelers to
AVOID Newark lest they die.
Now I know some of you irrationally hate Musk, but
he IS on the case here
What does Musk know about air traffic control?
If you want tech improvements, talk to Elon
On 6/5/25 20:18, c186282 wrote:
Off-the-record, staff warned travelers to
AVOID Newark lest they die.
Now I know some of you irrationally hate Musk, but
he IS on the case here
What does Musk know about air traffic control?
If you want tech improvements, talk to Elon
The way he closed SSA to old people?
On 5/5/25 10:18 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:9KacnTel1cPN8YT1nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy048rzjjjo
Air traffic controllers at Newark Liberty International
Airport briefly lost communications with planes under
their control, "unable to see, hear, or talk to them"
last week, a union spokesman has said.
The 28 April incident led to multiple employees being
placed on trauma leave, contributing to hundreds of
delayed or diverted flights. More than 150 flights have
been cancelled so far on Monday alone, according to
tracking website FlightAware.
The airport, one of New York's busiest hubs, has been
grappling with staff shortages for more than a week.
The Federal Aviation Administration acknowledged in a
statement that "our antiquated air traffic control
system is affecting our work force".
Confirming the controllers had taken leave following
the incident, the FAA said it could "not quickly
replace them".
"We continue to train controllers who will eventually
be assigned to this busy airspace," the statement said.
Air traffic control operations at the airport have come
under sustained criticism recently.
Last week, United Airlines announced it was cancelling
35 flights per day from its Newark schedule because the
airport "cannot handle the number of planes that are
scheduled to operate there".
"In the past few days, on more than one occasion,
technology that FAA air traffic controllers rely on
to manage the airplanes coming in and out of Newark
airport failed - resulting in dozens of diverted
flights, hundreds of delayed and cancelled flights,"
United CEO Scott Kirby said.
. . .
Competent staff aren't there.
The creaking-old tech is failing.
Over-capacity.
Off-the-record, staff warned travelers to
AVOID Newark lest they die.
Now I know some of you irrationally hate Musk, but
he IS on the case here
What does Musk know about air traffic control?
If you want tech improvements, talk to Elon
and points in the right
direction. MUCH better, and better integrated,
modern tech exists to replace all the creaky old
shit most airports are now using.
Fire the controllers, chaos results,
"who could have predecited this"
The problem is the QUALITY of the controllers ...
Now dealing with the competent ATC *staff* problem,
that's something entirely different. Joe/K would
have DEI-ed us into daily stories of flaming
crashes.
Funny how the system worked fine
before Trump/Musk took over and started
fucking with it.
Just a cooincidence, right?
Ummm ... no ... it was NOT working well.
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in news:etWdnWIX7piJTIf1nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com:
On 5/5/25 10:18 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:9KacnTel1cPN8YT1nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy048rzjjjo
Air traffic controllers at Newark Liberty International
Airport briefly lost communications with planes under
their control, "unable to see, hear, or talk to them"
last week, a union spokesman has said.
The 28 April incident led to multiple employees being
placed on trauma leave, contributing to hundreds of
delayed or diverted flights. More than 150 flights have
been cancelled so far on Monday alone, according to
tracking website FlightAware.
The airport, one of New York's busiest hubs, has been
grappling with staff shortages for more than a week.
The Federal Aviation Administration acknowledged in a
statement that "our antiquated air traffic control
system is affecting our work force".
Confirming the controllers had taken leave following
the incident, the FAA said it could "not quickly
replace them".
"We continue to train controllers who will eventually
be assigned to this busy airspace," the statement said.
Air traffic control operations at the airport have come
under sustained criticism recently.
Last week, United Airlines announced it was cancelling
35 flights per day from its Newark schedule because the
airport "cannot handle the number of planes that are
scheduled to operate there".
"In the past few days, on more than one occasion,
technology that FAA air traffic controllers rely on
to manage the airplanes coming in and out of Newark
airport failed - resulting in dozens of diverted
flights, hundreds of delayed and cancelled flights,"
United CEO Scott Kirby said.
. . .
Competent staff aren't there.
The creaking-old tech is failing.
Over-capacity.
Off-the-record, staff warned travelers to
AVOID Newark lest they die.
Now I know some of you irrationally hate Musk, but
he IS on the case here
What does Musk know about air traffic control?
If you want tech improvements, talk to Elon
We have something to learn from
the creator of the Cybertruck?
and points in the right
direction. MUCH better, and better integrated,
modern tech exists to replace all the creaky old
shit most airports are now using.
Fire the controllers, chaos results,
"who could have predecited this"
The problem is the QUALITY of the controllers ...
What would Musk know about that?
Now dealing with the competent ATC *staff* problem,
that's something entirely different. Joe/K would
have DEI-ed us into daily stories of flaming
crashes.
Funny how the system worked fine
before Trump/Musk took over and started
fucking with it.
Just a cooincidence, right?
Ummm ... no ... it was NOT working well.
Number of air traffic controllers
fired by Biden = 0.
On 5/7/25 9:20 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:etWdnWIX7piJTIf1nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com:
On 5/5/25 10:18 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:9KacnTel1cPN8YT1nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy048rzjjjo
Air traffic controllers at Newark Liberty International
Airport briefly lost communications with planes under
their control, "unable to see, hear, or talk to them"
last week, a union spokesman has said.
The 28 April incident led to multiple employees being
placed on trauma leave, contributing to hundreds of
delayed or diverted flights. More than 150 flights have
been cancelled so far on Monday alone, according to
tracking website FlightAware.
The airport, one of New York's busiest hubs, has been
grappling with staff shortages for more than a week.
The Federal Aviation Administration acknowledged in a
statement that "our antiquated air traffic control
system is affecting our work force".
Confirming the controllers had taken leave following
the incident, the FAA said it could "not quickly
replace them".
"We continue to train controllers who will eventually
be assigned to this busy airspace," the statement said.
Air traffic control operations at the airport have come
under sustained criticism recently.
Last week, United Airlines announced it was cancelling
35 flights per day from its Newark schedule because the
airport "cannot handle the number of planes that are
scheduled to operate there".
"In the past few days, on more than one occasion,
technology that FAA air traffic controllers rely on
to manage the airplanes coming in and out of Newark
airport failed - resulting in dozens of diverted
flights, hundreds of delayed and cancelled flights,"
United CEO Scott Kirby said.
. . .
Competent staff aren't there.
The creaking-old tech is failing.
Over-capacity.
Off-the-record, staff warned travelers to
AVOID Newark lest they die.
Now I know some of you irrationally hate Musk, but
he IS on the case here
What does Musk know about air traffic control?
If you want tech improvements, talk to Elon
We have something to learn from
the creator of the Cybertruck?
and points in the right
direction. MUCH better, and better integrated,
modern tech exists to replace all the creaky old
shit most airports are now using.
Fire the controllers, chaos results,
"who could have predecited this"
The problem is the QUALITY of the controllers ...
What would Musk know about that?
Now dealing with the competent ATC *staff* problem,
that's something entirely different. Joe/K would
have DEI-ed us into daily stories of flaming
crashes.
Funny how the system worked fine
before Trump/Musk took over and started
fucking with it.
Just a cooincidence, right?
Ummm ... no ... it was NOT working well.
Number of air traffic controllers
fired by Biden = 0.
Dunno if any have been fired, there, by Trump either.
In any case, there have been horror stories about
this sort of stuff for years now.
On 2025-05-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 5/7/25 9:20 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:etWdnWIX7piJTIf1nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com:
On 5/5/25 10:18 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:9KacnTel1cPN8YT1nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy048rzjjjo
Air traffic controllers at Newark Liberty International
Airport briefly lost communications with planes under
their control, "unable to see, hear, or talk to them"
last week, a union spokesman has said.
The 28 April incident led to multiple employees being
placed on trauma leave, contributing to hundreds of
delayed or diverted flights. More than 150 flights have
been cancelled so far on Monday alone, according to
tracking website FlightAware.
The airport, one of New York's busiest hubs, has been
grappling with staff shortages for more than a week.
The Federal Aviation Administration acknowledged in a
statement that "our antiquated air traffic control
system is affecting our work force".
Confirming the controllers had taken leave following
the incident, the FAA said it could "not quickly
replace them".
"We continue to train controllers who will eventually
be assigned to this busy airspace," the statement said.
Air traffic control operations at the airport have come
under sustained criticism recently.
Last week, United Airlines announced it was cancelling
35 flights per day from its Newark schedule because the
airport "cannot handle the number of planes that are
scheduled to operate there".
"In the past few days, on more than one occasion,
technology that FAA air traffic controllers rely on
to manage the airplanes coming in and out of Newark
airport failed - resulting in dozens of diverted
flights, hundreds of delayed and cancelled flights,"
United CEO Scott Kirby said.
. . .
Competent staff aren't there.
The creaking-old tech is failing.
Over-capacity.
Off-the-record, staff warned travelers to
AVOID Newark lest they die.
Now I know some of you irrationally hate Musk, but
he IS on the case here
What does Musk know about air traffic control?
If you want tech improvements, talk to Elon
We have something to learn from
the creator of the Cybertruck?
and points in the right
direction. MUCH better, and better integrated,
modern tech exists to replace all the creaky old
shit most airports are now using.
Fire the controllers, chaos results,
"who could have predecited this"
The problem is the QUALITY of the controllers ...
What would Musk know about that?
Now dealing with the competent ATC *staff* problem,
that's something entirely different. Joe/K would
have DEI-ed us into daily stories of flaming
crashes.
Funny how the system worked fine
before Trump/Musk took over and started
fucking with it.
Just a cooincidence, right?
Ummm ... no ... it was NOT working well.
Number of air traffic controllers
fired by Biden = 0.
Dunno if any have been fired, there, by Trump either.
In any case, there have been horror stories about
this sort of stuff for years now.
My former neighbor was an ATC for many years and I guess about 15 years ago, maybe less,
he gave me the grand tour of one of the local ARTCC and I was stunned at how ancient the
technology was.
The ATC, would document a particular plane's position, heading and speed and fill out a little
index card and when the plane was out of their area of control they would literally hand off
the card to the ATC down the line who now had responsibility for the aircraft.
Now here's the real scary part.
At that time, once an aircraft was over water, say the Atlantic Ocean, they had NO WAY TO TRACK
THE PLANE REAL TIME.
The depended upon the heading, airspeed and so forth and "assumed" that the plane would
be at x,y,z points based upon that data!
When my neighbor told me this I was flabbergasted and replied something like "I move my fucking
car 15 feet in the driveway and the Tom Tom GPS knows I have moved, and you guys can't track a
747?
I can't believe it has taken all this time to figure out the FAA equipment is antiquated.
On 5/7/25 6:40 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-05-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 5/7/25 9:20 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:etWdnWIX7piJTIf1nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com:
On 5/5/25 10:18 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:9KacnTel1cPN8YT1nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy048rzjjjo
Air traffic controllers at Newark Liberty International
Airport briefly lost communications with planes under
their control, "unable to see, hear, or talk to them"
last week, a union spokesman has said.
The 28 April incident led to multiple employees being
placed on trauma leave, contributing to hundreds of
delayed or diverted flights. More than 150 flights have
been cancelled so far on Monday alone, according to
tracking website FlightAware.
The airport, one of New York's busiest hubs, has been
grappling with staff shortages for more than a week.
The Federal Aviation Administration acknowledged in a
statement that "our antiquated air traffic control
system is affecting our work force".
Confirming the controllers had taken leave following
the incident, the FAA said it could "not quickly
replace them".
"We continue to train controllers who will eventually
be assigned to this busy airspace," the statement said.
Air traffic control operations at the airport have come
under sustained criticism recently.
Last week, United Airlines announced it was cancelling
35 flights per day from its Newark schedule because the
airport "cannot handle the number of planes that are
scheduled to operate there".
"In the past few days, on more than one occasion,
technology that FAA air traffic controllers rely on
to manage the airplanes coming in and out of Newark
airport failed - resulting in dozens of diverted
flights, hundreds of delayed and cancelled flights,"
United CEO Scott Kirby said.
. . .
Competent staff aren't there.
The creaking-old tech is failing.
Over-capacity.
Off-the-record, staff warned travelers to
AVOID Newark lest they die.
Now I know some of you irrationally hate Musk, but
he IS on the case here
What does Musk know about air traffic control?
If you want tech improvements, talk to Elon
We have something to learn from
the creator of the Cybertruck?
and points in the right
direction. MUCH better, and better integrated,
modern tech exists to replace all the creaky old
shit most airports are now using.
Fire the controllers, chaos results,
"who could have predecited this"
The problem is the QUALITY of the controllers ...
What would Musk know about that?
Now dealing with the competent ATC *staff* problem,
that's something entirely different. Joe/K would
have DEI-ed us into daily stories of flaming
crashes.
Funny how the system worked fine
before Trump/Musk took over and started
fucking with it.
Just a cooincidence, right?
Ummm ... no ... it was NOT working well.
Number of air traffic controllers
fired by Biden = 0.
Dunno if any have been fired, there, by Trump either.
In any case, there have been horror stories about
this sort of stuff for years now.
My former neighbor was an ATC for many years and I guess about 15 years ago, maybe less,
he gave me the grand tour of one of the local ARTCC and I was stunned at how ancient the
technology was.
The ATC, would document a particular plane's position, heading and speed and fill out a little
index card and when the plane was out of their area of control they would literally hand off
the card to the ATC down the line who now had responsibility for the aircraft.
Now here's the real scary part.
At that time, once an aircraft was over water, say the Atlantic Ocean, they had NO WAY TO TRACK
THE PLANE REAL TIME.
The depended upon the heading, airspeed and so forth and "assumed" that the plane would
be at x,y,z points based upon that data!
When my neighbor told me this I was flabbergasted and replied something like "I move my fucking
car 15 feet in the driveway and the Tom Tom GPS knows I have moved, and you guys can't track a
747?
I can't believe it has taken all this time to figure out the FAA equipment is antiquated.
Well ... face it ... the USA used to make a lot more
money. Most ATC tech is latter 60s, back when we were
still rollin' in it. It was cutting edge, then.
In theory, modern tech can do a lot more for a lot
less $$$.
Two and a half issues.
First off, anything the govt does costs $$$+ and tends
to take forever. Everybody steals from the funds.
Second, few pols want to be the ones to commit to
spending $$$+ ... looks bad, even if it's good.
And the half ... 'integration'/'phase-over'. How to
keep everything running while you're in the middle
of replacing everything. Lots of airports are SUPER
busy now, above cap. Can't just shut Reagan or Atlanta
or LaGuardia for a couple of months (best case) during
the change.
ALSO have to TRAIN people - old AND the newer nerdy set -
to USE the new stuff and use it WELL. Lots of people
otherwise die flaming deaths that'll be on every news
channel. Investigations, Congressional scapegoat squads,
screaming mobs holding up posters of their dead relatives -
UGLY !
Maybe I should have promoted that half-point ...
This IS almost a case of where "AI" should be 90% running
the show - humans being the emergency backup/overseers.
Handling THAT many fast objects moving in 3-D.
"The vectors are weaving, eternities loom"
Hmmmm .... Elon has a big AI plant, doesn't he ? :-)
On 2025-05-08, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 5/7/25 6:40 PM, pothead wrote:I used to travel all over the USA on biz and have had my share of almost disasters.
On 2025-05-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 5/7/25 9:20 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:etWdnWIX7piJTIf1nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com:
On 5/5/25 10:18 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:9KacnTel1cPN8YT1nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy048rzjjjo
Air traffic controllers at Newark Liberty International
Airport briefly lost communications with planes under
their control, "unable to see, hear, or talk to them"
last week, a union spokesman has said.
The 28 April incident led to multiple employees being
placed on trauma leave, contributing to hundreds of
delayed or diverted flights. More than 150 flights have
been cancelled so far on Monday alone, according to
tracking website FlightAware.
The airport, one of New York's busiest hubs, has been
grappling with staff shortages for more than a week.
The Federal Aviation Administration acknowledged in a
statement that "our antiquated air traffic control
system is affecting our work force".
Confirming the controllers had taken leave following
the incident, the FAA said it could "not quickly
replace them".
"We continue to train controllers who will eventually
be assigned to this busy airspace," the statement said.
Air traffic control operations at the airport have come
under sustained criticism recently.
Last week, United Airlines announced it was cancelling
35 flights per day from its Newark schedule because the
airport "cannot handle the number of planes that are
scheduled to operate there".
"In the past few days, on more than one occasion,
technology that FAA air traffic controllers rely on
to manage the airplanes coming in and out of Newark
airport failed - resulting in dozens of diverted
flights, hundreds of delayed and cancelled flights,"
United CEO Scott Kirby said.
. . .
Competent staff aren't there.
The creaking-old tech is failing.
Over-capacity.
Off-the-record, staff warned travelers to
AVOID Newark lest they die.
Now I know some of you irrationally hate Musk, but
he IS on the case here
What does Musk know about air traffic control?
If you want tech improvements, talk to Elon
We have something to learn from
the creator of the Cybertruck?
and points in the right
direction. MUCH better, and better integrated,
modern tech exists to replace all the creaky old
shit most airports are now using.
Fire the controllers, chaos results,
"who could have predecited this"
The problem is the QUALITY of the controllers ...
What would Musk know about that?
Now dealing with the competent ATC *staff* problem,
that's something entirely different. Joe/K would
have DEI-ed us into daily stories of flaming
crashes.
Funny how the system worked fine
before Trump/Musk took over and started
fucking with it.
Just a cooincidence, right?
Ummm ... no ... it was NOT working well.
Number of air traffic controllers
fired by Biden = 0.
Dunno if any have been fired, there, by Trump either.
In any case, there have been horror stories about
this sort of stuff for years now.
My former neighbor was an ATC for many years and I guess about 15 years ago, maybe less,
he gave me the grand tour of one of the local ARTCC and I was stunned at how ancient the
technology was.
The ATC, would document a particular plane's position, heading and speed and fill out a little
index card and when the plane was out of their area of control they would literally hand off
the card to the ATC down the line who now had responsibility for the aircraft.
Now here's the real scary part.
At that time, once an aircraft was over water, say the Atlantic Ocean, they had NO WAY TO TRACK
THE PLANE REAL TIME.
The depended upon the heading, airspeed and so forth and "assumed" that the plane would
be at x,y,z points based upon that data!
When my neighbor told me this I was flabbergasted and replied something like "I move my fucking
car 15 feet in the driveway and the Tom Tom GPS knows I have moved, and you guys can't track a
747?
I can't believe it has taken all this time to figure out the FAA equipment is antiquated.
Well ... face it ... the USA used to make a lot more
money. Most ATC tech is latter 60s, back when we were
still rollin' in it. It was cutting edge, then.
In theory, modern tech can do a lot more for a lot
less $$$.
Two and a half issues.
First off, anything the govt does costs $$$+ and tends
to take forever. Everybody steals from the funds.
Second, few pols want to be the ones to commit to
spending $$$+ ... looks bad, even if it's good.
And the half ... 'integration'/'phase-over'. How to
keep everything running while you're in the middle
of replacing everything. Lots of airports are SUPER
busy now, above cap. Can't just shut Reagan or Atlanta
or LaGuardia for a couple of months (best case) during
the change.
ALSO have to TRAIN people - old AND the newer nerdy set -
to USE the new stuff and use it WELL. Lots of people
otherwise die flaming deaths that'll be on every news
channel. Investigations, Congressional scapegoat squads,
screaming mobs holding up posters of their dead relatives -
UGLY !
Maybe I should have promoted that half-point ...
This IS almost a case of where "AI" should be 90% running
the show - humans being the emergency backup/overseers.
Handling THAT many fast objects moving in 3-D.
"The vectors are weaving, eternities loom"
Hmmmm .... Elon has a big AI plant, doesn't he ? :-)
A landing in Atlanta skidded all over the runway due to ice, fish tailed
and everything in the plane went flying all over the place.
I thought I was going to die.
Several aborted landings at LAG where the plans didn't have enough runway to to stop.
A near collision over Philly airport where another plans came so close I could
see the passengers inside.
These days I refuse to fly.
As for the FAA, the problem is that they spec a computer system and then test it
for years before they bring it online and by then the system is already obsolete.
On 5/7/25 6:40 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-05-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 5/7/25 9:20 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:etWdnWIX7piJTIf1nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com:
On 5/5/25 10:18 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:9KacnTel1cPN8YT1nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy048rzjjjo
Air traffic controllers at Newark Liberty International
Airport briefly lost communications with planes under
their control, "unable to see, hear, or talk to them"
last week, a union spokesman has said.
The 28 April incident led to multiple employees being
placed on trauma leave, contributing to hundreds of
delayed or diverted flights. More than 150 flights have
been cancelled so far on Monday alone, according to
tracking website FlightAware.
The airport, one of New York's busiest hubs, has been
grappling with staff shortages for more than a week.
The Federal Aviation Administration acknowledged in a
statement that "our antiquated air traffic control
system is affecting our work force".
Confirming the controllers had taken leave following
the incident, the FAA said it could "not quickly
replace them".
"We continue to train controllers who will eventually
be assigned to this busy airspace," the statement said.
Air traffic control operations at the airport have come
under sustained criticism recently.
Last week, United Airlines announced it was cancelling
35 flights per day from its Newark schedule because the
airport "cannot handle the number of planes that are
scheduled to operate there".
"In the past few days, on more than one occasion,
technology that FAA air traffic controllers rely on
to manage the airplanes coming in and out of Newark
airport failed - resulting in dozens of diverted
flights, hundreds of delayed and cancelled flights,"
United CEO Scott Kirby said.
. . .
Competent staff aren't there.
The creaking-old tech is failing.
Over-capacity.
Off-the-record, staff warned travelers to
AVOID Newark lest they die.
Now I know some of you irrationally hate Musk, but
he IS on the case here
What does Musk know about air traffic control?
If you want tech improvements, talk to Elon
We have something to learn from
the creator of the Cybertruck?
and points in the right
direction. MUCH better, and better integrated,
modern tech exists to replace all the creaky old
shit most airports are now using.
Fire the controllers, chaos results,
"who could have predecited this"
The problem is the QUALITY of the controllers ...
What would Musk know about that?
Now dealing with the competent ATC *staff* problem,
that's something entirely different. Joe/K would
have DEI-ed us into daily stories of flaming
crashes.
Funny how the system worked fine
before Trump/Musk took over and started
fucking with it.
Just a cooincidence, right?
Ummm ... no ... it was NOT working well.
Number of air traffic controllers
fired by Biden = 0.
Dunno if any have been fired, there, by Trump either.
In any case, there have been horror stories about
this sort of stuff for years now.
My former neighbor was an ATC for many years and I guess about 15
years ago, maybe less, he gave me the grand tour of one of the local
ARTCC and I was stunned at how ancient the technology was.
The ATC, would document a particular plane's position, heading and
speed and fill out a little index card and when the plane was out of
their area of control they would literally hand off the card to the
ATC down the line who now had responsibility for the aircraft.
Now here's the real scary part.
At that time, once an aircraft was over water, say the Atlantic
Ocean, they had NO WAY TO TRACK THE PLANE REAL TIME.
The depended upon the heading, airspeed and so forth and "assumed"
that the plane would be at x,y,z points based upon that data!
When my neighbor told me this I was flabbergasted and replied
something like "I move my fucking car 15 feet in the driveway and the
Tom Tom GPS knows I have moved, and you guys can't track a 747?
I can't believe it has taken all this time to figure out the FAA
equipment is antiquated.
Well ... face it ... the USA used to make a lot more
money. Most ATC tech is latter 60s, back when we were
still rollin' in it. It was cutting edge, then.
In theory, modern tech can do a lot more for a lot
less $$$.
Two and a half issues.
First off, anything the govt does costs $$$+ and tends
to take forever. Everybody steals from the funds.
Second, few pols want to be the ones to commit to
spending $$$+ ... looks bad, even if it's good.
And the half ... 'integration'/'phase-over'. How to
keep everything running while you're in the middle
of replacing everything. Lots of airports are SUPER
busy now, above cap. Can't just shut Reagan or Atlanta
or LaGuardia for a couple of months (best case) during
the change.
ALSO have to TRAIN people - old AND the newer nerdy set -
to USE the new stuff and use it WELL. Lots of people
otherwise die flaming deaths that'll be on every news
channel. Investigations, Congressional scapegoat squads,
screaming mobs holding up posters of their dead relatives -
UGLY !
On 2025-05-08, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:years ago, maybe less,
On 5/7/25 6:40 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-05-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 5/7/25 9:20 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:etWdnWIX7piJTIf1nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com:
On 5/5/25 10:18 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:9KacnTel1cPN8YT1nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy048rzjjjo
Air traffic controllers at Newark Liberty International
Airport briefly lost communications with planes under
their control, "unable to see, hear, or talk to them"
last week, a union spokesman has said.
The 28 April incident led to multiple employees being
placed on trauma leave, contributing to hundreds of
delayed or diverted flights. More than 150 flights have
been cancelled so far on Monday alone, according to
tracking website FlightAware.
The airport, one of New York's busiest hubs, has been
grappling with staff shortages for more than a week.
The Federal Aviation Administration acknowledged in a
statement that "our antiquated air traffic control
system is affecting our work force".
Confirming the controllers had taken leave following
the incident, the FAA said it could "not quickly
replace them".
"We continue to train controllers who will eventually
be assigned to this busy airspace," the statement said.
Air traffic control operations at the airport have come
under sustained criticism recently.
Last week, United Airlines announced it was cancelling
35 flights per day from its Newark schedule because the
airport "cannot handle the number of planes that are
scheduled to operate there".
"In the past few days, on more than one occasion,
technology that FAA air traffic controllers rely on
to manage the airplanes coming in and out of Newark
airport failed - resulting in dozens of diverted
flights, hundreds of delayed and cancelled flights,"
United CEO Scott Kirby said.
. . .
Competent staff aren't there.
The creaking-old tech is failing.
Over-capacity.
Off-the-record, staff warned travelers to
AVOID Newark lest they die.
Now I know some of you irrationally hate Musk, but
he IS on the case here
What does Musk know about air traffic control?
If you want tech improvements, talk to Elon
We have something to learn from
the creator of the Cybertruck?
and points in the right
direction. MUCH better, and better integrated,
modern tech exists to replace all the creaky old
shit most airports are now using.
Fire the controllers, chaos results,
"who could have predecited this"
The problem is the QUALITY of the controllers ...
What would Musk know about that?
Now dealing with the competent ATC *staff* problem,
that's something entirely different. Joe/K would
have DEI-ed us into daily stories of flaming
crashes.
Funny how the system worked fine
before Trump/Musk took over and started
fucking with it.
Just a cooincidence, right?
Ummm ... no ... it was NOT working well.
Number of air traffic controllers
fired by Biden = 0.
Dunno if any have been fired, there, by Trump either.
In any case, there have been horror stories about
this sort of stuff for years now.
My former neighbor was an ATC for many years and I guess about 15
stunned at how ancient thehe gave me the grand tour of one of the local ARTCC and I was
speed and fill out a littletechnology was.
The ATC, would document a particular plane's position, heading and
would literally hand offindex card and when the plane was out of their area of control they
the aircraft.the card to the ATC down the line who now had responsibility for
Ocean, they had NO WAY TO TRACK
Now here's the real scary part.
At that time, once an aircraft was over water, say the Atlantic
that the plane wouldTHE PLANE REAL TIME.
The depended upon the heading, airspeed and so forth and "assumed"
something like "I move my fuckingbe at x,y,z points based upon that data!
When my neighbor told me this I was flabbergasted and replied
and you guys can't track acar 15 feet in the driveway and the Tom Tom GPS knows I have moved,
equipment is antiquated.747?
I can't believe it has taken all this time to figure out the FAA
runway toI used to travel all over the USA on biz and have had my share of almost disasters.
Well ... face it ... the USA used to make a lot more
money. Most ATC tech is latter 60s, back when we were
still rollin' in it. It was cutting edge, then.
In theory, modern tech can do a lot more for a lot
less $$$.
Two and a half issues.
First off, anything the govt does costs $$$+ and tends
to take forever. Everybody steals from the funds.
Second, few pols want to be the ones to commit to
spending $$$+ ... looks bad, even if it's good.
And the half ... 'integration'/'phase-over'. How to
keep everything running while you're in the middle
of replacing everything. Lots of airports are SUPER
busy now, above cap. Can't just shut Reagan or Atlanta
or LaGuardia for a couple of months (best case) during
the change.
ALSO have to TRAIN people - old AND the newer nerdy set -
to USE the new stuff and use it WELL. Lots of people
otherwise die flaming deaths that'll be on every news
channel. Investigations, Congressional scapegoat squads,
screaming mobs holding up posters of their dead relatives -
UGLY !
Maybe I should have promoted that half-point ...
This IS almost a case of where "AI" should be 90% running
the show - humans being the emergency backup/overseers.
Handling THAT many fast objects moving in 3-D.
"The vectors are weaving, eternities loom"
Hmmmm .... Elon has a big AI plant, doesn't he ? :-)
A landing in Atlanta skidded all over the runway due to ice, fish tailed
and everything in the plane went flying all over the place.
I thought I was going to die.
Several aborted landings at LAG where the plans didn't have enough
to stop.close I could
A near collision over Philly airport where another plans came so
see the passengers inside.
These days I refuse to fly.
As for the FAA, the problem is that they spec a computer system andthen test it
for years before they bring it online and by then the system isalready obsolete.
On 2025-05-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 5/7/25 9:20 AM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:etWdnWIX7piJTIf1nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com:
On 5/5/25 10:18 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
news:9KacnTel1cPN8YT1nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy048rzjjjo
Air traffic controllers at Newark Liberty International
Airport briefly lost communications with planes under
their control, "unable to see, hear, or talk to them"
last week, a union spokesman has said.
The 28 April incident led to multiple employees being
placed on trauma leave, contributing to hundreds of
delayed or diverted flights. More than 150 flights have
been cancelled so far on Monday alone, according to
tracking website FlightAware.
The airport, one of New York's busiest hubs, has been
grappling with staff shortages for more than a week.
The Federal Aviation Administration acknowledged in a
statement that "our antiquated air traffic control
system is affecting our work force".
Confirming the controllers had taken leave following
the incident, the FAA said it could "not quickly
replace them".
"We continue to train controllers who will eventually
be assigned to this busy airspace," the statement said.
Air traffic control operations at the airport have come
under sustained criticism recently.
Last week, United Airlines announced it was cancelling
35 flights per day from its Newark schedule because the
airport "cannot handle the number of planes that are
scheduled to operate there".
"In the past few days, on more than one occasion,
technology that FAA air traffic controllers rely on
to manage the airplanes coming in and out of Newark
airport failed - resulting in dozens of diverted
flights, hundreds of delayed and cancelled flights,"
United CEO Scott Kirby said.
. . .
Competent staff aren't there.
The creaking-old tech is failing.
Over-capacity.
Off-the-record, staff warned travelers to
AVOID Newark lest they die.
Now I know some of you irrationally hate Musk, but
he IS on the case here
What does Musk know about air traffic control?
If you want tech improvements, talk to Elon
We have something to learn from
the creator of the Cybertruck?
and points in the right
direction. MUCH better, and better integrated,
modern tech exists to replace all the creaky old
shit most airports are now using.
Fire the controllers, chaos results,
"who could have predecited this"
The problem is the QUALITY of the controllers ...
What would Musk know about that?
Now dealing with the competent ATC *staff* problem,
that's something entirely different. Joe/K would
have DEI-ed us into daily stories of flaming
crashes.
Funny how the system worked fine
before Trump/Musk took over and started
fucking with it.
Just a cooincidence, right?
Ummm ... no ... it was NOT working well.
Number of air traffic controllers
fired by Biden = 0.
Dunno if any have been fired, there, by Trump either.
In any case, there have been horror stories about
this sort of stuff for years now.
My former neighbor was an ATC for many years and I guess about 15 years ago, maybe less,
he gave me the grand tour of one of the local ARTCC and I was stunned at how ancient the
technology was.
The ATC, would document a particular plane's position, heading and speed and fill out a little
index card and when the plane was out of their area of control they would literally hand off
the card to the ATC down the line who now had responsibility for the aircraft.
Now here's the real scary part.
At that time, once an aircraft was over water, say the Atlantic Ocean, they had NO WAY TO TRACK
THE PLANE REAL TIME.
The depended upon the heading, airspeed and so forth and "assumed" that the plane would
be at x,y,z points based upon that data!
When my neighbor told me this I was flabbergasted and replied something like "I move my fucking
car 15 feet in the driveway and the Tom Tom GPS knows I have moved, and you guys can't track a
747?
I can't believe it has taken all this time to figure out the FAA equipment is antiquated.
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