• Re: The Forbidden Topic: Race and IQ

    From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 17 11:10:08 2025
    XPost: alt.politics.immigration, alt.politics.republicans, talk.politics.guns XPost: sac.politics

    Question 1: The Race and IQ Controversy

    Lets talk about race, but lets focus on the thorniest issue of
    all: Race and IQ.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-nyma-iq/
    Trump IQ test results discovered in former NYMA employee's closet.

    The result: 73

    Barack Obama
    Age: 64
    Alleged IQ: 155
    Birthplace: Honolulu, Hawaii,

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Democrat Scum@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 17 12:44:32 2025
    XPost: alt.politics.immigration, alt.politics.republicans, talk.politics.guns XPost: sac.politics

    Question 1: The Race and IQ Controversy

    Lets talk about race, but lets focus on the thorniest issue of
    all: Race and IQ.

    Can you summarize the issue so that readers understand what were
    talking about and explain why it is such a prickly topic?

    Ron UnzFor various reasons, there are few topics more taboo in
    modern American society than the notion of racial differences.
    Meanwhile, intelligence testingthe use of IQ exams to measure
    mental abilityis also extremely taboo these days. Therefore, the
    combination of race and IQ is a particularly dangerous subject,
    almost completely avoided by those unwilling to risk a firestorm of
    attacks on social media or the destruction of their careers.

    As a consequence, the vast majority of Americans, including our
    educated elites, never get any serious or neutral exposure to
    Race/IQ issues, even if the forbidden fruit aspect of the topic
    might occasionally draw some of them to the fringes of the Internet
    where the subject is still sometimes discussed.

    The landmark Civil Rights Act was passed nearly six decades ago,
    and since then the notion of racial equality in ability has been
    enshrined as an absolutely fundamental assumption of our society.
    Rather than merely being a scientific conclusion based upon
    empirical research, it has become a central ideological belief,
    more like a moral axiom or the basic tenet of a religious faith,
    whose truth transcends any evidence. If particular racial or ethnic
    minority groups are under-represented in elite university
    admissions or over-represented in crime and poverty, the only
    possible explanation is the failure or malice of the larger society
    rather than the intrinsic characteristics of the groups themselves.

    More and more American institutions, including those responsible
    for education and law enforcement, now operate under this
    fundamental assumption of racial equality and the recent tidal wave
    of wokeness merely represents the latest manifestations. This
    situation may produce insurmountable difficulties if that
    assumption happens to be misaligned with reality. Back in 2013 I
    closed a long article on some of these issues with the following
    paragraph:

    During the Cold War, the enormous governmental investments of
    the Soviet regime in many fields produced nothing, since they were
    based on a model of reality that was both unquestionable and also
    false. The growing divergence between that ideological model and
    the real world eventually doomed the USSR, whose vast and permanent
    bulk blew away in a sudden gust of wind two decades ago. American
    leaders should take care that they do not stubbornly adhere to
    scientifically false doctrines that will lead our own country to
    risk a similar fate.

    How Social Darwinism Made Modern China
    A thousand years of meritocracy shaped the Middle Kingdom
    Ron Unz The American Conservative March 11, 2013 8,300
    Words

    In todays Western world, any individuals who suggest the existence
    of large and innate racial differences in IQ and other measures of
    intellectual ability are utterly marginalized, with their words
    confined to isolated corners of the Internet. Such theories are
    widely condemned as hate speech, with their adherents likely to
    see their careers destroyed, while facing serious risk of
    deplatforming from social media or even criminal prosecution in
    many Western countries.

    Given this climate of serious intellectual repression, it is hardly
    surprising that only a tiny sliver of our population would publicly
    espouse such heretical ideas, and even many of those hardy souls
    have gradually drifted away from explicitly proclaiming those views
    in recent years.
    Question 2: Research Findings and Censorship

    Has there been extensive research on this topic and do you think
    the research is reliable? Is there research that counters the
    findings that we are discussing?

    There has been a systematic purge of anyone who dares to research
    or write about this topic. And I can certainly understand why. Even
    so, while I may not agree with the racialist perspective, I think
    that people should be free to think and write about anything they
    choose. We should never turn to censorship as a way to defend our
    ideals, but that, in fact, is what has happened. So, my question to
    you is this: Who are these people whose ideas (and research) are so
    threatening that they have had to be censored?

    Ron UnzBack in 2020 I published a very long and comprehensive
    intellectual survey of American white racialism and it included
    extensive coverage of the Race/IQ debate. I noted that although
    promoting such ideas were forbidden and utter transgressive today,
    just a generation or two ago they had been treated quite
    respectfully in many of our most prestigious and influential media
    organs and academic institutions, or even directly endorsed in
    those elite venues. The presentation of controversial theories
    about Race and IQ began appearing soon after the passage of the
    Civil Rights laws and the Great Society legislation, and the
    proponents were top academic scholars, some of them highly-regarded
    liberals. My account summarized the decades of this rancorous
    public debate.

    An important basis for the Brown decision had been the argument
    that desegregation would substantially reduce the wide educational
    achievement gap between black and white students, which was also a
    central goal of many of Lyndon Johnsons new Great Society
    programs, such as Head Start. But in February 1969, the prestigious
    Harvard Educational Review gave over its entire issue to a massive
    123 page article by Prof. Arthur Jensen of Berkeley, a leading
    psychometrician, bearing the provocative title How Much Can We
    Boost IQ and Scholastic Achievement? Jensen argued that there was
    overwhelming scientific evidence that IQ scores and other measures
    of scholastic ability were determined by nature rather than nurture
    and that the wide black-white performance gap was mostly biological
    in origin. Jensens scientific claims provoked a national firestorm
    of controversy, subjecting Jensen to massive vilification,
    including physical assaults and very serious threats against the
    lives of himself and his family.

    Despite these ferocious attacks, Jensen never wavered in his
    scientific positions during the decades that followed, and in 1998
    he published his magnum opus The g Factor: The Science of Mental
    Ability, reiterating his findings. By 2005, he was widely regarded
    as the Grand Old Man of psychometrics, and he published an article
    summarizing the previous thirty years of research on racial
    differences in intelligence, with his co-author being Prof. J.
    Philippe Rushton, an evolutionary theorist who held explicitly
    White Nationalist beliefs.

    Jensen seems to have been largely apolitical, and although his
    original article had ignited the controversy, he hardly desired the
    resulting media spotlight, which soon shifted away, allowing him to
    spend the next four decades in his scholarly research prior to his
    death in 2012 at age 89. Instead, a much more eager lightning-rod
    appeared in the person of physicist William Shockley, who years
    earlier had won a Nobel Prize for inventing the transistor.
    Shockley seemed to relish public attention, which he soon attracted
    by wholeheartedly endorsing Jensens views and then spending years
    promoting them in the media and various public forums, along with
    other racially-charged policy proposals such as government-paid
    sterilization for low-IQ individuals and similar eugenic measures.
    The physicist soon became a household name, attracting massive
    public vilification up until his death in 1989 and even long
    afterward.

    Shockley was a Palo Alto native, and in 1956 after inventing the
    transistor he had founded Shockley Semiconductor in neighboring
    Mountain View to commercialize his invention, choosing to relocate
    back from the East Coast in order to be closer to his aged and
    ailing mother. His difficult personality and poor management skills
    eventually produced an exodus of his early employees, who went on
    to spawn many of the most important technology companies in the
    region, arguably making Shockley the father of the modern Silicon
    Valley, which otherwise might never have come into existence. But
    although he is probably the most important Palo Altan in history,
    his controversial racialist views have prevented any appropriate
    recognition. For years I have driven past his simple clapboard home
    on Waverley Ave., which is unmarked by any plaque or historic
    designation, and his name has never graced any building, monument,
    or award.

    Lacking any such public honors and with his name now largely
    forgotten, Shockley presented no target for the recent Black Lives
    Matter protest movement to attack, and he was simply ignored. By
    contrast, a similar campaign a few years ago forced our local
    school district to rename Terman Middle School, which had honored
    famed Stanford Electrical Engineering Prof. Frederick Terman. In
    the 1930s, Terman had encouraged his students William Hewlett and
    David Packard to found their eponymous company, which also played a
    huge role in creating Americas powerful technology industry.
    Termans name was scraped from the school because he shared it with
    that of his father, Stanford Psychology Prof. Lewis Terman, who had
    pioneered American IQ testing a century ago, now considered a toxic
    figure despite almost no focus on race.

    Jensen had done his own doctoral work at University College London
    under Hans Eysenck, a renowned professor of psychology and expert
    in psychometrics. A couple of years after the appearance of
    Jensens controversial article on the heredity basis of IQ, Eysenck
    published Race, Intelligence, and Education, a short book taking
    much the same position. Once again, a massive wave of controversy
    and media vilification erupted, with Eysenck being physically
    attacked and having his life threatened. Although he never
    retracted his views, henceforth he focused almost entirely on other
    topics, and by the time of his death in 1997 was a figure of
    enormous eminence in the field of psychology, ranking first in the
    world in the number of his peer-reviewed academic citations.
    Despite such scholarly achievements, he had never been made a
    member of the British Psychological Society, apparently because of
    the controversial nature of his writings on race and IQ three
    decades earlier.

    The same year that Eysenck had released his controversial book, the
    parallel views of a much younger Harvard psychology professor named
    Richard Herrnstein attracted similar attention in our own country.
    Founded in 1857, The Atlantic had for more than a century been one
    of Americas most prestigious national magazines, and Herrnsteins
    20,000 word article on IQ was one of the longest ever to run in
    that publication, providing a comprehensive account of the origins
    and accuracy of IQ tests as a measure of human intelligence, along
    with the enormous implications for the future of our society.
    Herrnstein strongly endorsed the arguments of Jensen and others
    that IQ was overwhelmingly determined by innate factors, but tread
    rather carefully on the related evidence of a large difference in
    intelligence between racial groups.

    Given its venue, Herrnsteins massive article reached a large
    national audience, including many of Americas intellectual elites,
    and soon provoked the usual wave of attacks and hostile criticism,
    though his caution on racial issues probably insulated him from the
    level of vitriol that Jensen and Eysenck had encountered. Rather
    than being expelled from respectable media circles, Herrnstein went
    on to publish additional major articles on related IQ issues over
    the next couple of decades in The Public Interest, National Review,
    Commentary, and even socialistic Dissent.

    In 1982, The Atlantic carried another one of his long articles
    describing the overwhelming consensus of academic researchers on IQ
    issues and the severe distortions of the scientific facts regularly
    promoted by leading mainstream media organs such as The New York
    Times and CBS News. So although the positions of Herrnstein and his
    allies were largely excluded from outlets with the largest national
    audiences, they continually reached smaller but more intellectually
    elite circles. In 1985 he co-authored Crime and Human Nature with
    eminent political scientist James Q. Wilson, an influential and
    well-received text arguing for a strong innate component to
    criminal behavior, including discussion of the very wide
    differences in crime rates between racial and ethnic groups.

    Herrnstein died of lung cancer at the age of 64 in September 1994,
    having devoted the final years of his life to a project that
    directly addressed the large racial differences in intelligence
    which most of his previous writings had usually sidestepped.
    Teaming up with prominent social scientist Charles Murray, he
    produced The Bell Curve, a massive volume that weighed in at 845
    pages and over 400,000 words.

    The book was released just weeks after his death and immediately
    became a national sensation, probably attracting more controversy
    and media coverage than anything published in decades. Almost three
    generations had passed since a major American press had published a
    book heavily arguing for the mostly innate nature of human
    intelligence and the wide racial differences in such traits, and
    although the latter issue constituted only small portion of the
    text, those incendiary claims attracted nearly all the attention.

    At that time, The New Republic was Americas most influential
    liberal opinion magazine, and both owner Martin Peretz and editor
    Andrew Sullivan together gave their strong support to the launch of
    The Bell Curve, allocating much of an issue to a 10,000 word cover-
    story entitled Race, Genes, and IQ: An Apologia, which largely
    consisted of extended extracts from the book. But that decision
    sparked a huge revolt by most of the magazines outraged staff and
    regular contributors, who demanded space for rebuttal, so that the
    same issue also carried some 19 separate attacks on the book and
    its theories, many of them extremely harsh, with epithets such as
    neo-Nazi tossed around. According to Sullivan, the incident
    marked a turning point in his relationships with his TNR
    colleagues, which never recovered, and he eventually left the
    magazine.

    From the distance of a quarter century, I had mostly forgotten the overwhelming media coverage at the time, but spending a couple of
    days reading fifty or sixty of the contemporaneous reviews, many of
    them quite lengthy, refreshed my memory, and also underscored the
    tremendously disparate reactions by usual ideological soulmates.

    For example, just within the pages of the New York Times, the
    Sunday Book Review allocated The Bell Curve and two other books on
    similar racial issues an almost unprecedented three pages of
    discussion, with Malcolm Browne, the papers Pulitzer Prize-winning
    science journalist taking 4,200 words to portray the works in a
    substantially favorable light, emphasizing the need to confront
    long-suppressed taboos. But a week later the same newspaper ran a
    very long editorial denouncing The Bell Curve Agenda in the
    harshest possible terms, and an 8,300 word cover-story in the
    Sunday Magazine had vilified Murray as The Most Dangerous
    Conservative in America.

    National Review, the leading conservative magazine, had already run
    a long and favorable review, but soon devoted most of an entire
    issue to a remarkable symposium by 14 separate contributors, many
    of them prominent journalists or academics, who provided a very
    wide range of both positive and negative perspectives. Although TNR
    was then my favorite magazine and I didnt hold NR in high regard,
    the flood of attacks in the former seemed absolutely hysterical,
    while I thought that the latter had provided the best and most
    balanced discussion.

    The coincidental timing of larger political events probably helped
    explain this enormous media coverage. Just a couple of weeks after
    the books release, Newt Gingrich and the Republicans had
    unexpectedly swept to power in Congressional elections, ending
    nearly a half-century of unbroken Democratic control by seizing
    majorities in both the House and the Senate, an event just as
    traumatic to the liberals of that day as Donald Trumps upset
    victory was to prove in 2016. Racial controversies had been a
    significant contributing factor to the Republican landslide, and
    appalled liberals now saw their familiar political and ideological
    world crumbling about them, with the frightening possibility that
    the white racism of the buried past would suddenly regain control
    of American society.

    The result was an exceptionally bitter wave of liberal media
    attacks on the book, which was demonized to an unprecedented
    extent. As mentioned, much of the early media discussion of The
    Bell Curve and its ideas had been favorable or at least respectful,
    but an enormous public campaign of vilification was now unleashed,
    with many timorous Republicans and conservatives soon wilting under
    the attacks and abandoning any support. A couple of years earlier,
    I had been invited to a private meeting in DC at which Murray had confidentially circulated portions of his work-in-progress and the neoconservative organizers strategized with him about the best
    approach for successfully launching the book; but now I heard word
    that Bill Kristol was seeking conservatives to sign a public
    statement condemning the racist tract.

    The book continued to sell very well, but the tide of elite public
    opinion soon turned sharply against it, and Herrnsteins death just
    a month before publication was surely a contributing factor. Until
    just a few years earlier, Murray had been totally unaware of these
    scientific issues involving race and IQ, and indeed had regularly
    dismissed the possible role of racial differences as a factor in
    black social problems in his previous writings denouncing the
    welfare state. By contrast, Herrnstein had spent more than two
    decades researching the topic as a leading Harvard professor, and
    was also partially immunized against attacks because of his strong
    liberal credentials. Thus, the disappearance of the senior liberal
    co-author removed a crucial defender of the contents, leaving the
    conservative Murray much more vulnerable and exposed, and forcing
    him to publicly defend psychometric issues that were outside his
    primary area of expertise. I remember thinking at the time that
    when faced with sharp technical questioning by hostile journalists
    some of his media responses were not as effective as they might
    have been.

    Americas leading psychometricians, whose professional expertise on
    race and IQ had long been ignored or mischaracterized in the public
    arena, quickly mobilized in support, using the media firestorm as
    an opportunity to get their longstanding opinions into print. In
    December, the Wall Street Journal gave over most of a full
    editorial page to a public declaration that The Bell Curve
    represented the scholarly consensus of the mainstream science on intelligence, a statement organized by Prof. Linda Gottfredson and
    signed by 52 academic experts, including such eminent scholars as
    Eysenck and Jensen.

    Despite these counter-attacks, the intellectual tide continued to
    turn against the work, and within less than a year, the ideological
    status quo had reasserted itself, with the remaining defenders
    finding themselves severely beleaguered in the mainstream media.
    When the firestorm had originally erupted, famed paleolibertarian
    Murray Rothbard had been gleeful that the long-suppressed truths
    about racial matters had finally broken through, suggesting that
    powerful political elements had apparently decided to reverse their
    decades of scientific suppression. But at the ten year anniversary,
    longtime writers on race and IQ such as Steve Sailer and Chris
    Brand delivered lengthy and despairing verdicts, concluding that
    the ideas in the book had been successfully suppressed, and any
    favorable mention of it in respectable circles would render someone
    an immediate outcast. Sailer even suggested that the Bell Curve
    Wars represented a crucial turning point for both the
    neoconservative and neoliberal intellectual movements, which soon
    abandoned any lingering candor on racially-charged issues. Indeed,
    other frequent writers on racial matters such as John Derbyshire
    and Peter Brimelow have sometimes described the period 1995-2005 as
    a brief interglacial during which controversial racial topics
    could sometimes be discussed in the mainstream media, but that the
    subsequent clamp-down had been even more severe than anything
    before.

    Basically, all niggers are stupid and can never be intelligent.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/the-forbidden-topic-race-and-iq/#question- 1-the-race-and-iq-controversy

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  • From Dark Brandon@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Aug 17 13:35:45 2025
    XPost: alt.politics.immigration, alt.politics.republicans, talk.politics.guns XPost: sac.politics

    On 8/17/2025 5:10 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Question 1: The Race and IQ Controversy

    Let’s talk about race, but let’s focus on the thorniest issue of
    all: Race and IQ.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-nyma-iq/
    Trump IQ test results discovered in former NYMA employee's closet.

    The result: 73

    Barack Obama
    Age: 64
    Alleged IQ: 155
    Birthplace: Honolulu, Hawaii,

    What would you guess the collective IQ's are of Spike Lee and Al
    Sharpton, two members of the African-American elite? Like Kamala Harris,
    they can't put together a coherent thought, IMO.

    https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2025/08/17/spike-lee-warns-trump-against-any-federal-move-on-new-york-city/

    In an interview with MSNBC’s Rev. Al Sharpton, the issue (of Federal law enforcement in NYC) was raised and this was Lee’s response in the
    exchange between the pair:

    LEE: “We’re, Rev, as you know, this country right now, it’s bananas. And this guy trying to take over D.C. and just weaponize these things, I
    mean, he’s going to think twice to try to do that in New York though.
    That ain’t — the Boogie Down, Harlem, Bed-Stuy, Do or Die? Eh-eh.” SHARPTON: “Gonna be a different kind of reaction.”
    LEE: “Oh, yeah, it’s gonna be very different.”

    --
    First we will destroy your identity. Then we will teach you your past
    was evil. You will conclude yourself that your inheritance, your
    homeland, your ancestors and your people are underserving of it all.
    Then we will complete your dispossession and dissolve you into the final
    phase of the Kalergi Plan.

    https://www.globalgulag.us

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From burch cassidy@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Aug 17 23:16:09 2025
    XPost: alt.politics.immigration, alt.politics.republicans, talk.politics.guns XPost: sac.politics, alt.folklore.urban

    In <107sdaj$28o61$1@dont-email.me> Jan Panteltje wrote:

    Question 1: The Race and IQ Controversy

    Let’s talk about race, but let’s focus on the thorniest issue of
    all: Race and IQ.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-nyma-iq/
    Trump IQ test results discovered in former NYMA employee's closet.

    The result: 73

    Barack Obama
    Age: 64
    Alleged IQ: 155
    Birthplace: Honolulu, Hawaii,

    Snopes, originated from alt.folklore.urban, purveyors of fake news
    for dumb people.

    http://eastandard.net/headlines/news26060403.htm

    Sunday, June 27, 2004

    Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate

    Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take over
    the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped out
    of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club allegations.

    The allegations that horrified fellow Republicans and caused his once- promising candidacy to implode in four short days have given Obama a
    clear lead as Republicans struggled to fetch an alternative.

    Ryan’s campaign began to crumble on Monday following the release of embarrassing records from his divorce. In the records, his ex-wife,
    Boston Public actress Jeri Ryan, said her former husband took her
    to kinky sex clubs in Paris, New York and New Orleans.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20040627142700im_/http://eastandard.net/images/ current/nh-obama.jpg
    Barrack Obama

    "It’s clear to me that a vigorous debate on the issues most likely could
    not take place if I remain in the race," Ryan, 44, said in a statement.
    "What would take place, rather, is a brutal, scorched-earth campaign –
    the kind of campaign that has turned off so many voters, the kind of
    politics I refuse to play."

    Although Ryan disputed the allegations, saying he and his wife went to
    one ‘avant-garde’ club in Paris and left because they felt uncomfortable, lashed out at the media and said it was "truly outrageous" that the
    Chicago Tribune got a judge to unseal the records.

    —AP

    Copyright © 2004 . The Standard Ltd

    The Standard Ltd
    I & M Building, Kenyatta Avenue,
    P.O Box 30080, 00100 GPO, Nairobi-Kenya.
    Tel. +254 20 3222111, Fax: +254 20 214467, 229218, 218965.
    Email: editorial@eastandard.net, online@eastandard.net
    News room Tel: +254 20 3222111, Fax: +254 20 213108.
    Advertising: standard.ads@swiftkenya.com

    http://web.archive.org/web/20040627142700/eastandard.net/headlines/news26060403.htm

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