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D:

I would assume there is no iron clad proof of this. On the
other hand, as I tell people I know who experienced the
same due to gender or nationality, you don't want to
remain at that company anyway so paradoxically you should
be happy it happened so you can move on to a company that
is more aligned with your values and interests.

That's selfish. The existance of such companies is harmful
to the entire humanity, not only to persons with differing
values.

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D <nospam@example.net> writes:

On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, Anton Shepelev wrote:

D:

I would assume there is no iron clad proof of this. On the
other hand, as I tell people I know who experienced the
same due to gender or nationality, you don't want to
remain at that company anyway so paradoxically you should
be happy it happened so you can move on to a company that
is more aligned with your values and interests.

That's selfish. The existance of such companies is harmful
to the entire humanity, not only to persons with differing
values.

No, it's rational. Companies are private property and therefore the
owner may do with them what they wish. The market will sort out
companies who reject competent employees in time, and companies who
accept competent employees regardless of color will thrive.

The entity that makes this a problem is the government.

But isn't government put together by companies?

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That's selfish. The existance of such companies is harmful

you think being white is the problem then why will trump be beaten to a pulp and raped in the prison shower by black men because he's orange?
\

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d pr

Google has been firing Trumpers and all employees with Russian names since
day 1. Good for them.

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D <nospam@example.net> writes:

On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, Julieta Shem wrote:

D <nospam@example.net> writes:

On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, Anton Shepelev wrote:

D:

I would assume there is no iron clad proof of this. On the
other hand, as I tell people I know who experienced the
same due to gender or nationality, you don't want to
remain at that company anyway so paradoxically you should
be happy it happened so you can move on to a company that
is more aligned with your values and interests.

That's selfish. The existance of such companies is harmful
to the entire humanity, not only to persons with differing
values.

No, it's rational. Companies are private property and therefore the
owner may do with them what they wish. The market will sort out
companies who reject competent employees in time, and companies who
accept competent employees regardless of color will thrive.

The entity that makes this a problem is the government.

But isn't government put together by companies?

No it's politicians. What differentiates government and companies is
that government govern countries and are back with violence. What
defines a company is that it acts on markets and have customers who
can voluntarily choose to do business or not with the company.

Together, companies make up a huge amount of money and other kinds of
power. They finance the campaigns and effectively attract politicians
who will (un)naturally be docile to their desires. Hasn't times changed
from monarchies to a new form of government that is simply an oligarchy?

Perhaps you can choose your leader, but that's irrelevant.

Real discussions don't even come up. We have a population that's
totally vulnerable to propaganda, which is what companies are
specialized in.

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D <nospam@example.net> writes:

[...]

But... you are certainly right in what you are saying, but to a big
extent this is due to government interfering in the markets, awarding companies enormous contracts and protecting them. So you have a
downward spiral.

If governments are put together by companies, it's expected that they
would protect companies when necessary. To dismantle government, we
need to take the power off companies in the first place.

Remove the government and the rest will follow.

Can't remove government if you don't weaken the power of companies.
Government, which we see as opposed to companies, is actually their
secret weapon.

I don't think that what governments do is so difficult that interested
regular people can't do themselves. An interesting idea is
``sortition'': make ineffective company investment in government.
Instead of providing companies easy, docile politicians to work for
them, let them deal with regular people. Some of these new government officials will be failures, but what about the /average/ case?

I believe in people, but I recognize the fact that they appear totally vulnerable to propaganda. So I also realize that we need to protect
them from propaganda itself, therefore we need to weaken the power of companies. We won't achieve this protection by making government more
powerful because that means making companies more powerful. We untie government from companies by making companies investment in government ineffective. Instead of selecting government by popularity, we select government by random choice.

Now, one last thing. I admit that I am arguing for a "utopian state"
and I admit that we are today _not_ living in this utopian state. The question of _how_ to get from today, to a world without governments,
and with only individuals and companies is a different, but very
interesting question.

I think everything here is doable. We need to make our belief in
people's capacity to happen.

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On 2/28/2024 5:41 AM, Julieta Shem wrote:

D <nospam@example.net> writes:

[...]

But... you are certainly right in what you are saying, but to a big
extent this is due to government interfering in the markets, awarding
companies enormous contracts and protecting them. So you have a
downward spiral.

If governments are put together by companies,

They're not. No need to read past that bullshit proposition.

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