Yesterday, I learned a good lesson to not copy and paste text from a pdf
into the Forth environment. There can be hidden characters when doing
so, and then a word fails because the input isn't correct.

For an hour or so I was chasing down an imaginary bug in the
(non-standard) word NUMBER? used to convert a counted string into a
signed double length number.

--
Krishna Myneni

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Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> wrote:

Yesterday, I learned a good lesson to not copy and paste text from a pdf
into the Forth environment. There can be hidden characters when doing
so, and then a word fails because the input isn't correct.

I've encountered that problem often enough over many years to
get a feel for it as when action doesn't match logic.
Vim has a ':list' option that will display non-printiables
and for block files just re-write the suspect line. Also
have ADUMP that prints text and displays any non-printable
as '^nn', where nn was the value of the non-printable.

--
me

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Krishna Myneni wrote:
[..]

For an hour or so I was chasing down an imaginary bug in the
(non-standard) word NUMBER? used to convert a counted string into a
signed double length number.

I know about '-', and single/double quote characters. They are a
nuisance not only in Forth.

Was it something else?

-marcel

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On 7/1/24 07:13, sjack wrote:

Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> wrote:

Yesterday, I learned a good lesson to not copy and paste text from a pdf
into the Forth environment. There can be hidden characters when doing
so, and then a word fails because the input isn't correct.

I've encountered that problem often enough over many years to
get a feel for it as when action doesn't match logic.
Vim has a ':list' option that will display non-printiables
and for block files just re-write the suspect line. Also
have ADUMP that prints text and displays any non-printable
as '^nn', where nn was the value of the non-printable.

No display difference when I used :SET LIST in Vim. But I found the
issue was the difference between a unicode minus sign and an ASCII minus
sign -- see above.

--
KM

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On 7/1/24 06:47, mhx wrote:

Krishna Myneni wrote:
[..]

For an hour or so I was chasing down an imaginary bug in the
(non-standard) word NUMBER? used to convert a counted string into a
signed double length number.

I know about '-', and single/double quote characters. They are a
nuisance not only in Forth.

Was it something else?

-marcel

It was a large number containing commas. I deleted the commas.

The text is pasted here:

−170,141,183,460,469,231,731,687,303,715,884,105,728

It appears to have pasted properly, but there is a difference between
Line 1 and Line 2. The latter is entered by hand.
\ Line 1
c" −170141183460469231731687303715884105728" NUMBER? .s

0
0
0
ok
drop 2drop \ Now enter by hand
ok
\ Line 2
c" -170141183460469231731687303715884105728" NUMBER? .s

-1
-9223372036854775808
0

ok

From my newsreader, I can copy Line 1 into my Forth environment and
reproduce the error. When I copy Line 2 which is entered by hand,
NUMBER? works as expected.

--
KM

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On 7/1/24 18:33, Krishna Myneni wrote:

On 7/1/24 06:47, mhx wrote:

Krishna Myneni wrote:
[..]

For an hour or so I was chasing down an imaginary bug in the
(non-standard) word NUMBER? used to convert a counted string into a
signed double length number.

I know about '-', and single/double quote characters. They are a
nuisance not only in Forth.

Was it something else?

-marcel

It was a large number containing commas. I deleted the commas.

The text is pasted here:

−170,141,183,460,469,231,731,687,303,715,884,105,728

It appears to have pasted properly, but there is a difference between
Line 1 and Line 2. The latter is entered by hand.
\ Line 1
c" −170141183460469231731687303715884105728" NUMBER? .s

        0
        0
        0
 ok
drop 2drop  \ Now enter by hand
 ok
\ Line 2
c" -170141183460469231731687303715884105728" NUMBER? .s

Ok, when I apply COUNT I see there is a 2 character difference between
lines 1 and 2. If you look closely, the minus sign is different between
the two! The first line must have copied a UTF-8 encoded unicode
character for the minus sign.

--
KM

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iForth silently drops non-ASCII :

( mouse copy and paste followed by keyboard ENTER )
FORTH> 17 ok
[1]FORTH> . 17 ok
FORTH>

Octave is more explicit:

octave:1> −17
error: parse error:

invalid character '�' (ASCII 226)

−17

^
octave:1>

-marcel

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Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> wrote:

No display difference when I used :SET LIST in Vim. But I found the
issue was the difference between a unicode minus sign and an ASCII minus
sign -- see above.

Hard to believe Vim :SET LIST wouldn't catch that. But I use codepage
KOI8-R so that wouldn't show up for me. I'll have to try Vim on unicode terminal.
But my ADUMP would catch it for sure; it's showing the values Forth sees.

Ok, tried on unicode terminal and the PDF I used had the correct value,
45, for minus after copy to text file that I loaded with Forth.
(Vim ga over the minus also showed 45). Also if I type minus in
Vim on text file and it had the correct value. So your particular
PDF file was the culprit; so yes, all be warned.


--
me

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On 7/2/24 09:29, sjack wrote:

Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> wrote:

No display difference when I used :SET LIST in Vim. But I found the
issue was the difference between a unicode minus sign and an ASCII minus
sign -- see above.

Hard to believe Vim :SET LIST wouldn't catch that. But I use codepage
KOI8-R so that wouldn't show up for me. I'll have to try Vim on unicode terminal.
But my ADUMP would catch it for sure; it's showing the values Forth sees.

Ok, tried on unicode terminal and the PDF I used had the correct value,
45, for minus after copy to text file that I loaded with Forth.
(Vim ga over the minus also showed 45). Also if I type minus in
Vim on text file and it had the correct value. So your particular
PDF file was the culprit; so yes, all be warned.

Forth is a good environment for troubleshooting this -- just paste the
text after S" followed by a space and close the quote, then perform DUMP
to see the hex codes of all the characters. Many implementations of DUMP
also show the printable characters.

About the PDF file: it was one I created (the User's manual for
kForth-64); now I specifically remember changing the ASCII minus sign to Unicode minus so that it would be more readable! I had forgotten about that.

--
Krishna

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