[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

Alexis <flexibeast@gmail.com> spake the secret code
<875xhmdyhp.fsf@gmail.com> thusly:

-- https://hackaday.com/2025/05/27/a-forth-os-in-46-bytes/

IMO, it's not a FORTH implementation, but a simple boot monitor that
allows you to poke bytes into memory and then jump to a location.
Such minimal monitors have been around forever and this one is simply
squished down into 46 bytes by elminating all human factors in the
interface.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tue, 27 May 2025 18:45:34 +0000, Richard wrote:

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

Alexis <flexibeast@gmail.com> spake the secret code <875xhmdyhp.fsf@gmail.com> thusly:

-- https://hackaday.com/2025/05/27/a-forth-os-in-46-bytes/

The comments on this page say it all

--

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> spake the secret code <e0b2f1d0a67ca321c4f69f66bef506de768eac9f@i2pn2.org> thusly:

[...] A reason Moore gives
for leaving Forth Inc was 'Forth started simple, gradually accreting layers >of complexity and that became the culture'. If there's a gene for simplicity >it hasn't passed down the generations.

While this is a nice story, it seems to assume that FORTH exists in a
timeless vacuum and that it's still 1970. Microcontrollers today have
more resources than a PDP-11/70 from 1975. As much as the appetite
of the hardware has increased, the appetite for features from
customers has increased even further. The more compute power is put
into the hands of customers, the larger their appetite for features
and tasks to be put under control of the computer.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> writes:

Are customers driving obsolescence - or it's forced on them by manufacturers?

How?

I could go for 10 years without upgrading phones, computers etc. But I'm not >given the chance.

My phone is from 2009. Nobody forces me to abandon it. What chance
are you not given.

I recently updated much of my PC after 9 years, but not because I was
forced to. In our office we tend to use the machines for 15-20 years.
E.g., our web server was bought in 2021 and replaced one from 2005.
But the 2005-vintage machine is still there and can be used when the
need arises.

What takes the chance from you to use your hardware for longer if you
want to?

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/papers/
EuroForth 2024 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef24/papers/

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anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:

My phone is from 2009. Nobody forces me to abandon it. What chance
are you not given.

You can't use a 2009 phone in the US. All the 2G and 3G networks are
shut down. Even my old 2016 phone was very marginal (I had to install
some kind of unreliable patch to get it to use LTE for voice) and I
upgraded to a 2023 phone that is pretty good.

E.g., our web server was bought in 2021 and replaced one from 2005.
But the 2005-vintage machine is still there and can be used when the
need arises.

For servers you can run pretty much the same software as before, but on
the client side you have to use web browsers to get by in today's world,
and those browsers have to run awful bloaty Javascript monstrosities
that are on everyone's web sites now. It used to be Microsoft Word
driving a "Wintel" upgrade loop, but now it's the web, and it's harder
to escape. I think my laptop in 2005 was a Pentium 3 with 512MB of ram.
It would be almost unusable now.

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anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote:

My phone is from 2009. Nobody forces me to abandon it. What chance
are you not given.

3G seems to already be phased out here, 2G will follow[0] and then I
probably can forget my "Nokia 9300(i)" and "Nokia N900" as phones.

As PDA with a small but still full keyboard the 9300ers still will stay
useful and I'll use them until they fall apart[1].

____________

[0]: Big-Magenta-T already mentioned the date, others will follow.

[1]: Unluckily the 9300(i)'s keycaps do exactly do that. They fall off
after years and the ones fixed via superglue feel terribly
different. I'll somewhen need to find out how to change the whole
keys layer.

--
I do not bite, I just want to play.

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yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

3G seems to already be phased out here, 2G will follow[0]

2G here (California) is long gone, I thought. Are there some pockets of
the US where it is still alive.

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Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:

anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:

My phone is from 2009. Nobody forces me to abandon it. What chance
are you not given.

You can't use a 2009 phone in the US. All the 2G and 3G networks are
shut down.

According to <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G#Past_2G_networks>,
T-Mobile commenced the shutdown of 2G on 9 Feb 2025, so you certainly
could use a 2009-vintage phone until then. Unfortunately, I don't see
a list of present 2G providers; you might be able to continue to use a 2009-vintage phone by switching providers. Looking further around, I
read that some people think that T-Mobile was the last 2G provider in
the USA.

Anyway, 2G is alive and well around here (Austria). 3G is a different
story, though. Another reason not to get something newer before I
have to.

For servers you can run pretty much the same software as before, but on
the client side you have to use web browsers to get by in today's world,
and those browsers have to run awful bloaty Javascript monstrosities
that are on everyone's web sites now.

On my laptop I have a web browser running that has JavaScript enabled,
with hundreds of open tabs. On this laptop currently 11GB of ram are
used. I am sure it could run in 8GB using some swap space (and maybe
closing some tabs); my system from 2008 could accomodate at least 8GB
of RAM. probably 16GB; my system from 2015 could accomodate at least
64GB RAM, probably 128GB.

On my desktop I have JavaScript disabled. There are lots of websites
the work fine without JavaScript. And many of those that don't work
fine without JavaScript are a disappointment with JavaScript, too.

I think my laptop in 2005 was a Pentium 3 with 512MB of ram.
It would be almost unusable now.

The Pentium 3 was introduced in 1999, with new models introduced up to
2003. As for using it, you might look at <https://medium.com/@techrefreshing02/low-on-ram-try-these-5-lightweight-linux-distros-under-512mb-55e689ada854>

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/papers/
EuroForth 2024 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef24/papers/

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In article <2025May29.102452@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
<SNIP>

On my desktop I have JavaScript disabled. There are lots of websites
the work fine without JavaScript. And many of those that don't work
fine without JavaScript are a disappointment with JavaScript, too.

So true. Websites can only be dangerous if you have JavaScript enabled. JavaScript is a carte blanche to run whatever code in your computer,
with the users privileges. https sites are "trusted", that means
that the communication is secure, not that there is no malicious
software present.

I think my laptop in 2005 was a Pentium 3 with 512MB of ram.
It would be almost unusable now.

The Pentium 3 was introduced in 1999, with new models introduced up to
2003. As for using it, you might look at ><https://medium.com/@techrefreshing02/low-on-ram-try-these-5-lightweight-linux-distros-under-512mb-55e689ada854>

My Toshiba Windows XP (2000) is perfectly usable. I dropped it one too many times,
and the built in midi expander doesn't work any more, because I poked
in the innards.

- anton

--
Temu exploits Christians: (Disclaimer, only 10 apostles)
Last Supper Acrylic Suncatcher - 15Cm Round Stained Glass- Style Wall
Art For Home, Office And Garden Decor - Perfect For Windows, Bars,
And Gifts For Friends Family And Colleagues.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:

What takes the chance from you to use your hardware for longer if you
want to?

The company started producing a new phone; all old phones were made
obsolete and were given away or sold to employees at very low price. I
quickly snatched two, very nice reliable phones. The main reason I
wanted the old phones was because their on-hook was a mechanical
disconnect from the telephone line. On-hook on new phones is a soft
disconnect meaning the phone is still physically connected to the line
and only a signal is sent to the central office telling it to
disconnect on its end. So new phones are a 'mouth' in your house
connected to the outside world when any number of 'ears' can easily
connect to it without need of any special equipment. (A "mouth" can
connect to any number of "ears". An "ear", however, cannot connect to
multiple "mouths" without bridging equipment.)

In this day of age most phones are digital but some companies still
keep analog phones because of their better quality of service. A
government regulating body (FCC?) came out with an edict a few years
ago mandating manufacturers to discontinue analog phones within 10
years; all phones are to be digital.

Where can I buy a new car that doesn't have a chip in it. The chip
drove many shade tree mechanics out of business not because it
provides better diagnostics but because of license costs, update
costs, software compatibility costs (software not standard across
makes, models, and age)
Also, congress recently mandated new cars shall have a remote kill
switch.

One might get 10 year updates for a new higher end chromebook. But
most cheap chromebooks will have updates only for 3 to 5 years. After
which, the chromebook is still usable but the chrome apts are still "progressing" until at some point they no longer work with the
outdated chomebook OS. When I access gmail on my chromebook, it
bitches at me to update the OS. But chrome won't update my OS unless I
get a new chomebook.

--
me

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anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:

T-Mobile commenced the shutdown of 2G on 9 Feb 2025...

I'm on T-mobile and my old phone definitely stopped working when they
shut off 3G here. Is it possible that the phone didn't have 2G? I have
some other old phones I could try.

On my laptop I have a web browser running that has JavaScript enabled,
with hundreds of open tabs. On this laptop currently 11GB of ram are
used. I am sure it could run in 8GB using some swap space

Yes, 8GB isn't bad at all, 4GB works ok, but with 1GB it's a problem.

I think my laptop in 2005 was a Pentium 3 with 512MB of ram.
It would be almost unusable now.

The Pentium 3 was introduced in 1999, with new models introduced up to
2003.

I probably bought it before 2003. The one after that had a Core 2 and
4GB(?), and I think I got it in 2007. Yes, by 2015, stuff was almost as
good as stuff made now. I'm currently using a 2013-era machine (Core
i5) though I got it secondhand, more recently. It's working ok and I
don't have any pressing need to upgrade. When I want to do something
compute heavy, I use remote servers.

As for using it, you might look at ...

I can run older and smaller distros on those machines reasonably well, I
think. That's fine for text editing but it's not so feasible to browse
the web with them. It's also hard to get PATA solid state disks for
them, so they'd still have spinny drives of quite low capacity by
today's standards. The main use I could think of for them is as console terminals for otherwise headless machines.

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Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:

anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:

T-Mobile commenced the shutdown of 2G on 9 Feb 2025...

I'm on T-mobile and my old phone definitely stopped working when they
shut off 3G here. Is it possible that the phone didn't have 2G?

Possibly, or 2G only on the same frequencies as 3G, and those were
then repurposed.

I can run older and smaller distros on those machines reasonably well, I >think. That's fine for text editing but it's not so feasible to browse
the web with them.

That probably depends on the part of the web that you want to browse.

It's also hard to get PATA solid state disks for
them

In the meantime, yes. I have an iBook G4 (from 2004) that killed two
HDDs, so I eventually replaced it with an SSD. At that time (maybe
2010) PATA SSDs were available. Some still are <https://geizhals.at/?cat=hdssd&xf=4832_16>, at the sizes of the time,
and also near the prices of the time <https://geizhals.at/?phist=898986&age=9999>.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/papers/
EuroForth 2024 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef24/papers/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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In article <87o6v91csh.fsf@nightsong.com>,
Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
<SNIP>

I can run older and smaller distros on those machines reasonably well, I >think. That's fine for text editing but it's not so feasible to browse
the web with them. It's also hard to get PATA solid state disks for
them, so they'd still have spinny drives of quite low capacity by
today's standards. The main use I could think of for them is as console >terminals for otherwise headless machines.

M2 SSD disk fit on PCI express extension boards. As long as you have
a desk top. Installation is not as easy compared to spinning disks.

Groetjes Albert
--
Temu exploits Christians: (Disclaimer, only 10 apostles)
Last Supper Acrylic Suncatcher - 15Cm Round Stained Glass- Style Wall
Art For Home, Office And Garden Decor - Perfect For Windows, Bars,
And Gifts For Friends Family And Colleagues.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-05-29, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:

anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:

My phone is from 2009. Nobody forces me to abandon it. What chance
are you not given.

You can't use a 2009 phone in the US. All the 2G and 3G networks are
shut down. Even my old 2016 phone was very marginal (I had to install
some kind of unreliable patch to get it to use LTE for voice) and I
upgraded to a 2023 phone that is pretty good.

E.g., our web server was bought in 2021 and replaced one from 2005.
But the 2005-vintage machine is still there and can be used when the
need arises.

For servers you can run pretty much the same software as before, but on
the client side you have to use web browsers to get by in today's world,
and those browsers have to run awful bloaty Javascript monstrosities
that are on everyone's web sites now. It used to be Microsoft Word
driving a "Wintel" upgrade loop, but now it's the web, and it's harder
to escape. I think my laptop in 2005 was a Pentium 3 with 512MB of ram.
It would be almost unusable now.

Your laptop with GNU/Linux/OpenBSD would be perfectly fine
for tons of tasks:

- Links/Dillo Mainline as a browser
- Dillectory: https://alex.envs.net/dillectory/

- Gopher and gopher://magical.fish and gopher://sdf.org
- MPV + yt-dlp, max 480p or 360p.
- Mocp ofr music
- SLRN for this
- IRC+Bitlbee-libpurple for IRC and IM
- Abiword/Ted + GNUMeric + Gnuplot
- PFE runs pretty well as a Forth, altough I hate it's block handling

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anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> writes:

- Links/Dillo Mainline as a browser
- Dillectory: https://alex.envs.net/dillectory/

You can't browse the real web that way. Consider the JS-based captchas
in front of almost everything right now, to slow down AI scrapers. Then
look at the crap on actual web sites. The other stuff is mostly still workable. Web browsers are the bottleneck.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tue, 27 May 2025 22:33:38 +1000
Alexis <flexibeast@gmail.com> wrote:

Thought this community might be interested in this:

"[Philippe] doesn’t take a strong stance on whether this should
technically qualify as a Forth implementation, given that the base implementation lacks stacks, dictionaries, and the ability to define
words. However, it does have an outer and inner interpreter, the ability
to compile and execute code, and most importantly, 'the simplicity and
hacky feeling of Forth.'"

-- https://hackaday.com/2025/05/27/a-forth-os-in-46-bytes/

Well it's a bag of garbage^w^w^whighly suspect here on an x86 platform;
it hits various locations in memory with no idea what's there imo

[My dis-assembly]

16AD:0100 50 push ax
16AD:0101 B8 8E 00 mov ax,008E
16AD:0104 31 D8 xor ax,bx
16AD:0106 E8 FF 00 call 0208
16AD:0109 17 pop ss
16AD:010A 00 3C add [si],bh
16AD:010C 05 75 00 add ax,0075
16AD:010F EA 50 00 3C 00 jmp 003C:0050

16AD:0114 74 01 jz 0117
16AD:0116 EB 02 jmp 011A

16AD:0118 E8 EE 00 call 0209
16AD:011B 05 05 88 add ax,8805
16AD:011E EB 47 jmp 0167

16AD:0120 B8 E6 02 mov ax,02E6
16AD:0123 00 D2 add dl,dl
16AD:0125 31 14 xor [si],dx
16AD:0127 CD E4 int E4
16AD:0129 80 75 80 C3 xor byte [di-80],C3
16AD:012D F4 hlt

d 100 l30

16AD:0100 50 B8 8E 00-31 D8 E8 FF-00 17 00 3C-05 75 00 EA P...1......<.u.. 16AD:0110 50 00 3C 00-74 01 EB 02-E8 EE 00 05-05 88 EB 47 P.<.t..........G 16AD:0120 B8 E6 02 00-D2 31 14 CD-E4 80 75 80-C3 F4 .....1....u.....

q

[in hex]
50B88E0031D8E8FF0017003C057500EA50003C007401EB02E8EE00050588EB47 B8E60200D23114CDE4807580C3F4


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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On 2025-06-03, LIT <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> wrote:

Your laptop with GNU/Linux/OpenBSD would be perfectly fine
for tons of tasks:

"For tons of tasks" - sure, but not for
browsing the WWW in the state it's today.
About ten years ago I had to give up using
my old Athlon 3200+ machine used for the
"surfing", because it turned out, that after
next "upgrade" in my bank I wasn't able to
operate my bank account (and still more and
more websites became incredibly slow, when
browsing their contents). Yes, everyone
prefer to push the burden on your machine
by using that JS (that should be banned),
instead making their server doing that by
using PHP, for example.

I used to use Lynx for browsing the
Web, to read news etc. as long, as it was
still possible - to not even glance at all
that shiny fluff, to avoid pop-up windows
etc. - but that time is over since almost
20 years ago today. Try to use Lynx today
with any site. Maybe 5-10% of them can be
browsed such way.

--

- Lynx

Links it's better, and far more with the PSP
or the Opera Mini user agent.

Also, I use both the DIllectory and Gopher/Gemini
sites.

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On 2025-06-03, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:

anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> writes:

- Links/Dillo Mainline as a browser
- Dillectory: https://alex.envs.net/dillectory/

You can't browse the real web that way. Consider the JS-based captchas
in front of almost everything right now, to slow down AI scrapers. Then
look at the crap on actual web sites. The other stuff is mostly still workable. Web browsers are the bottleneck.

The Dillectory has tons of alternatives. Also,
there's gopher://magical.fish and gemini://gemi.dev, and basic
TLS 1.3 can be granted with a client built with LibreSSL
or BearSSL. Nothing fancy, even a Pentium 4 with SSE2 can
do Gemini (and far less, I got to run a client
under the *old* Damn Small Linux release with a custom
OpenSSL client built from BearSSL libraries and
plus a modernish GAWK build.

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LIT <zbigniew2011@gmail.com> wrote:

20 years ago today. Try to use Lynx today
with any site. Maybe 5-10% of them can be
browsed such way.

I seldom surf the web for long time now. When I do, I have JS
disabled. For sites that don't work, fine, forget them. However, I
was surprised the last time I surfed the web as to how many sites were
now accommodating for JS being disabled. Seems corporate wants to
capture that traffic too.

Another thing, with chrome it's easy to take a peek at a
non-accommodating site by a click of button on the address bar to turn
JS on for that site only (or for all). (Not pushing chome but they
have some good features.) In the old slow web I would serf with text
browser, Bobcat? on DOS, and could push a button to bring in small gui
browser if wanted to see the site in all its glory. So, much the same.

Being retro most of web's technical offerings becomes non-applicable.
Doing business on the web, just don't. For the data junkie there's
still more available than can be consumed in several lifetimes. With
JS disabled it's one big filter to skip the dross.

I've seen much come and go (how quickly). Change is coming now,
hard and fast ready to steamroll over all resistance. The irony,
the overall aspect remains constant. I guess JJ was on to something,
Tomorrow never happens.

--
me

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anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> writes:

You can't browse the real web that way.

The Dillectory has tons of alternatives.

You are missing the point. The "real web" means the web that exists in
the real world and that was built without taking usability by
non-bloated browsers on board. Quite a lot of the real web simply
doesn't work without Javascript, and heavyweight Javascript at that.
If you want to (or have to) use those sites in your everyday life, the Dillectory stuff won't help.

Yes, it's possible to live your life without using those sites, just as
it's possible to live without indoor plumbing or refrigeration at home.
But it's a lifestyle change that most people can't be expected to make
just for the sake of continuing to use their 2006-era computer.

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On 2025-06-06, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 13:21:44 +0000
zbigniew2011@gmail.com (LIT) wrote:

I know Links, I know Netrik and Dillo - and not since yesterday - but
nothing below Firefox is usable anymore within that WWW of today,
unfortunately.

Depends on what you're trying to get to. Wikipedia's still perfectly
usable with ELinks, and somehow it doesn't trip Google's new "screw you
for not having JS enabled" detector. Maddeningly, gutenberg.org ruined
their search interface in the last few years, but thankfully the texts themselves are still perfectly readable. Some forums I've been unable
to browse due to SSL restrictions, but I think that's due to using an outdated version on an outdated distro; newer builds seem to handle it better.

This. Also, dillo mainline

https://github.com/dillo-browser/dillo

has some MathML support. For TLS, no issues at all
with LibreSSL.

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On 2025-06-07, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:

anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> writes:

You can't browse the real web that way.

The Dillectory has tons of alternatives.

You are missing the point. The "real web" means the web that exists in
the real world and that was built without taking usability by
non-bloated browsers on board. Quite a lot of the real web simply
doesn't work without Javascript, and heavyweight Javascript at that.
If you want to (or have to) use those sites in your everyday life, the Dillectory stuff won't help.

Yes, it's possible to live your life without using those sites, just as
it's possible to live without indoor plumbing or refrigeration at home.
But it's a lifestyle change that most people can't be expected to make
just for the sake of continuing to use their 2006-era computer.

Most of these "web sites" are irrelevant to me. On Nextcloud UI's
and such, rclone handles well them all. On Mastodon, there's
brutaldon. On Youtube, mpv+yt-dlp works a zillion times faster
than the Google adware/bloadware frontend. Even under an N270
netbook. Also, most of Google Docs/Sheet documents can be
downloaded with a URL flag and opened under Libreffice/Abiword/ Gnumeric/Ted/SC-IM in a much faster way, or directly opened
as PDF files.

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zbigniew2011@gmail.com (LIT) writes:

What if you decide to look for anything on eBay, for example?

When I last looked for something on Ebay, my JavaScript-disabled
Firefox worked fine. I have not tried buying on Ebay, however.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/papers/
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zbigniew2011@gmail.com (LIT) writes:

What about bank account? Can you operate it with JS disabled?

Certainly, and I do that. I don't do any banking through the Web,
however.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/papers/
EuroForth 2024 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef24/papers/

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In article <2025Jun9.082717@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:

zbigniew2011@gmail.com (LIT) writes:

What about bank account? Can you operate it with JS disabled?

Certainly, and I do that. I don't do any banking through the Web,
however.

I would like to too. How do you do that?

- anton

Groetjes Albert
--
Temu exploits Christians: (Disclaimer, only 10 apostles)
Last Supper Acrylic Suncatcher - 15Cm Round Stained Glass- Style Wall
Art For Home, Office And Garden Decor - Perfect For Windows, Bars,
And Gifts For Friends Family And Colleagues.

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albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl writes:

In article <2025Jun9.082717@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:

zbigniew2011@gmail.com (LIT) writes:

What about bank account? Can you operate it with JS disabled?

Certainly, and I do that. I don't do any banking through the Web,
however.

I would like to too. How do you do that?

I go to a branch office of the bank and tell them what I want to do.
My bank is closing more and more branch offices for the kind of
interaction I want (with humans). The next step is going to a branch
office, and doing at some touchscreen device what I want. Still no
web needed. On some of those branch offices, I can make an
appointment for the things that one cannot do through a touchscreen.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2023 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef23/papers/
EuroForth 2024 proceedings: http://www.euroforth.org/ef24/papers/

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albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl writes:

Certainly, and I do that. I don't do any banking through the Web,
however.

I would like to too. How do you do that?

I'm able to do most of what I need over the phone. I call the bank's
customer service number and a voice prompt system lets me do routine
stuff like check my balance or pay my credit card bill. If I need
something less routine, I can get help from a human who can do most of
the stuff that branch representatives can do. I usually don't have to
wait very long for the human assistance either, and they tend to know
what they are doing. I'm always somewhat impressed by that. Sometimes
I need something they can't handle, so they kick the request upward in
their hierarchy, and I get a return call within a day or so.

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anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> writes:

Most of these "web sites" are irrelevant to me.

Can you read sfgate.com? That's a major news site near here.

Interestingly, I'm able to read apnews.com with lynx. With firefox, I'm impeded by Cloudflare Turnstile which is basically a JS-dependent
captcha.

I get a 403 from this with lynx: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13768935/1/Harry-Potter-and-A-Galaxy-Far-Far-Away

That site also uses Turnstile. Turnstile is becoming extremely
widespread across the net, to push away AI scrapers.

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