On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 7:52:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

I know we are waiting to hear what the 6Ghz chip Stephen has been working with will turn out like,

and what Green Arrays will release for the glasses (which type of thing demands an advanced design).
But recently, I saw a document on Colorforth for ARM, and comparisons to Swift Forth etc. Which got
me wondering about a lower end design. Now, with the passing of Doctor Ting, it reminds me of the
Mup21 he had that kicked things off, and Jeff's work latter. Isn't it time we had something more like
these designs upgraded? 16 bit or more versions?

We are still waiting

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On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 7:52:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

I know we are waiting to hear what the 6Ghz chip Stephen has been working

with will turn out like, and what Green Arrays will release for the glasses
(which type of thing demands an advanced design). But recently, I saw a
document on Colorforth for ARM, and comparisons to Swift Forth etc. Which
got me wondering about a lower end design. Now, with the passing of Doctor
Ting, it reminds me of the Mup21 he had that kicked things off, and Jeff's work
latter. Isn't it time we had something more like these designs upgraded?
16 bit or more versions?

Ok. Rewritten to break up line length.

We are still waiting.

Looks le Rock has come a road that FPGA fabric in another thread, which I was
trying to remember a few years ago. Efinix

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On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 10:50:33 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 7:52:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

I know we are waiting to hear what the 6Ghz chip Stephen has been working

with will turn out like, and what Green Arrays will release for the glasses (which type of thing demands an advanced design). But recently, I saw a document on Colorforth for ARM, and comparisons to Swift Forth etc. Which
got me wondering about a lower end design. Now, with the passing of Doctor Ting, it reminds me of the Mup21 he had that kicked things off, and Jeff's work
latter. Isn't it time we had something more like these designs upgraded?
16 bit or more versions?
Ok. Rewritten to break up line length.

We are still waiting.

Looks le Rock has come a road that FPGA fabric in another thread, which I was trying to remember a few years ago. Efinix

I apologise for the double
post. For some reason, posts
here stalled, and I thought I
just have accidentally closed
the original post popup
instead of posting it.


Covid:

I'm mega dosing with vitamin
C to get the post covid
symptoms down (lots of
symptoms, I was wondering
what was happening, and
even today walking around
ready to collapse from the
interaction with the other
damage, and other seperate
severe problem. But if you
are wondering why you are
feeling do bad a few months
after covid, look up post
covid, it has a really
surprising list of things it
causes). So, I can get back
to writing on my page and
maybe cutting paragraphs up
into lines, that some want,
but not necessarily


- FPGA
- Rom based gatearray alternative
- Cheap Rom and chip construction:

Anyway, I'm very happy Rick
the Rock found that FPGA
company. When I was asking
about it before, nobody was
really bothered. I'm
interested in a multi program
alternative to gate array,
based off of the rom idea.


Interested in 1micron and
smaller rom arrays to use as
a memory, which can be
made in house. Polysance is
pursuing inject printing, and
my proposed inject design is
like hundreds of thousands
of heads. I know a fair
number of items before, from
regular market parts search
years ago, including
technology suitable for this.
GA, would probably be good
off, pursuing development of
something like that. Plenty of
federal grant money, and in
house chip development.
Inject is ok, but the current
stuff is vastly too slow, and
high energy. The stuff I've
pointed out before, is ebeam
and stamp based
construction. What I'm
looking for lends itself to
this. At visual light ranges,
you greatly simplify making
the chip, even just using an
optical technology and DMD
(though I wonder how
accurate is that Sony ribbon
technology. Now, if you
simplify this further, you can
have a 1 dimensional array of
DMD, and use a scan
mechanism. Now, going a
step further, why have a DMD,
when you can have an 1
dimensional laser array, and
know of a product with that
you could use a reduction
lense on. But a rollable stamp
is another possibility. I see
stamps as limited uses, as
with masks. So possibly big
advantages in some way, as
long as the feature size is
cost effective.

Even at 10 micron, memory is
significant, and can go 3D.

I would look at using the
mylar, and an interface layer,
and then the circuit layer, and
if heat is an issue, heat
insulation to eliminate
damage. But, that is
something I'm not qualified
in, but I can see it.

Anyway, at 1 micron, you
could possibly do a
conventional fab, as a mini
fab. What probably is the
case, is that the fab
technology has advanced
such, it can keep large
feature sizes cleaner than
when 1 micron was new, and
cheaper. An ebeam, or DMD,
might be used for the mask.
Even if you have to go to a smaller feature size and use it
at 1 micron to increase
yields.

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On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 10:50:33 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 7:52:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

I know we are waiting to hear what the 6Ghz chip Stephen has been working

with will turn out like, and what Green Arrays will release for the glasses (which type of thing demands an advanced design). But recently, I saw a document on Colorforth for ARM, and comparisons to Swift Forth etc. Which
got me wondering about a lower end design. Now, with the passing of Doctor Ting, it reminds me of the Mup21 he had that kicked things off, and Jeff's work
latter. Isn't it time we had something more like these designs upgraded?
16 bit or more versions?
Ok. Rewritten to break up line length.

We are still waiting.

Looks le Rock has come a road that FPGA fabric in another thread, which I was trying to remember a few years ago. Efinix

Ok. What I was going to write.

Among all the people being
vocal, they missed that Greg
from GA, said they had done
designs on 28nm. I think it
likely we will see a 28nm
part.

28nm is good for me. My
problem with 180/130nm is
speed at the low energy are
useful for various tasks, but if
2Ghz low energy was achievable, it would give
better coverage of tasks,
especially using a few core
design. Despite what some
people may think, I tend to
weigh things up and look at it
from the view of task
requirements. 3-5Ghz would
be better again, even 20Ghz
one day. The weakest link in
the chain here, is the overall
maximum sample rate of
data in and out. 1 GHz is
1Gbit/s on a single line. So,
we use additional circuitry to
shift put, say, a 32 bit word,
up to the equivalent of
32Gbit/s (obviously we use
phase signaling etc to
emulate higher rates). That's
not even suitable for quality
8kp60 display, let alone a
16k-32k large video touch
table design, or that or larger,
walk by video advertising
display, and the talk is of 32k
cinema camera sensor. To
actually perform work on
these larger data sets in
reduced cores requires high
speed. So, 20Ghz, eventually
looks desirable. By the time
we get there in common
practice, we may have the
recent optical multiplexing
technology that can handle
the high data rates, and
magnetic or optical
processing that is faster than
this clock rate. But on the
way there, in the consumer
space, faster clocks are still
desirable. Samsung is
preparing a 700mp video
sensor chip, we expect to see
on security cameras and
phones (to use oversampling
and for digital zoom and
pan/tilt).

In my virtual reality research,
I identified 24k video resolution
as an ideal 180 degree resolution.
I know of one company that was
planning 32k display chip design
years ago, as the next generation
resolution to their current
prototype, of that day.

The TSMC LP version is a
shrink of 40Nm LP process.

https://www.techinsights.com/blog/review-tsmc-28-nm-process-technology

https://min.news/en/economy/870f2fff0332b177b7584030218422e8.html

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On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 7:52:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

I know we are waiting to hear what the 6Ghz chip Stephen has been working with will turn out like, and what Green Arrays will release for the glasses (which type of thing demands an advanced design). But recently, I saw a document on Colorforth for ARM,

and comparisons to Swift Forth etc. Which got me wondering about a lower end design. Now, with the passing of Doctor Ting, it reminds me of the Mup21 he had that kicked things off, and Jeff's work latter. Isn't it time we had something more like these
designs upgraded? 16 bit or more versions?

An update. A friend of mine is also potentially interested in helping out, with the analogue section. He is trained in computer systems engineering.

Things are still early days, but the architecture strategy has become clear, and work on the design strategy is on going, and market strategy is clear and business strategy (if any business is ventured into) is on going.

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There are a lot of things done
wrong in this world, and that
provides business
opportunities to do things
better, which tends to not
really happen. One instance,
consumer wireless display
transmission has stalled.
The previous wifi standard
didn't really work. A more
advanced open protocol was
announced, which has
displaced the old protocol in
most consumer non-
computing devices, but the
protocol lacked low latency
direct streaming modes. In
the long term, I have been
wanting to sell alternative
devices for that. But also,
with a processor system for
placement in TV's, to replace
existing user os processing
system and display port, also
with extra features. Just one
sample, of many things that
alternatives could be sold for.

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An interesting side note:

I read an interesting articles
on how Sinclair computer
was run, where they had
things like I've thought they
should have, but never got it
out in time. People here,
should note hoe the business
works, before complaining
about progress. The
consumer device parts
business is a moving target,
and what you were designing
yesterday might be too late
tomorrow, and to have you
move on. Sir Clive hired
brilliant young engineers and
let them do their own thing.
That is pretty cool. It only
needed to filter and funnel
these projects out, along with
the businesses official
projects. Sinclair could have
easily kept going if they did
this.

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But after 253 messages in this thread what is the answer to the main question? Is it time for another Forth chip — or not yet?

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On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 5:02:02 PM UTC-4, Zbig wrote:

But after 253 messages in this thread what is the answer to the main question?
Is it time for another Forth chip — or not yet?

Not quite yet. Try back a week from next Tuesday.

--

Rick C.

----- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
----- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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On 17/07/2022 13:18, Rick C wrote:

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 5:02:02 PM UTC-4, Zbig wrote:

But after 253 messages in this thread what is the answer to the main question?
Is it time for another Forth chip — or not yet?

Not quite yet. Try back a week from next Tuesday.

That looks like a deadline. We don't like deadlines.

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On 17/07/2022 14:34, Rick C wrote:

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 11:58:03 PM UTC-4, dxforth wrote:

On 17/07/2022 13:18, Rick C wrote:

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 5:02:02 PM UTC-4, Zbig wrote:

But after 253 messages in this thread what is the answer to the main question?
Is it time for another Forth chip — or not yet?

Not quite yet. Try back a week from next Tuesday.

That looks like a deadline. We don't like deadlines.

Who's "we"? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

Only time.

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On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 11:58:03 PM UTC-4, dxforth wrote:

On 17/07/2022 13:18, Rick C wrote:

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 5:02:02 PM UTC-4, Zbig wrote:

But after 253 messages in this thread what is the answer to the main question?
Is it time for another Forth chip — or not yet?

Not quite yet. Try back a week from next Tuesday.

That looks like a deadline. We don't like deadlines.

Who's "we"? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

--

Rick C.

----+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
----+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 11:54:48 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote:

dxforth <dxf...@gmail.com> writes:

The compiler https://en.wikichip.org/w/images/2/25/MARC4_User%27s_Guide_qFORTH_Compiler.pdf

Wow, that is neat, and the programmers' guide also talks about qFORTH a
lot. The return stack lives in ram is it looks like its slots are 4
nibbles, a 12-bit code address plus 4 data bits. The manual advises
against too many levels of subroutines. Saving temporary data on the R
stack with >R etc. also sounds bad. But qFORTH does have those words.
I wonder if any actual application code is around that we can look at.

tl:dr

Once again, you seem to be doing it bass ackwards. Without knowing what power you can provide to the circuit, you intend to see what you can "fit".

Ok, enjoy. I think it's pretty clear now that you are an armchair designer. That's fine. I've done my fair share of that too. I probably only build one out of 10 of the things I imagine I could design and even sell. It's a lot of work to travel
that road, not nearly as easy as it might seem.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> writes:

Ok, enjoy. I think it's pretty clear now that you are an armchair
designer.

I'm not designing anything and I've never claimed to be any sort of
(hardware) designer. The comment you replied to was about the compiler software. It had nothing to do with the electronics.

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On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:11:42 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> writes:

Ok, enjoy. I think it's pretty clear now that you are an armchair
designer.

I'm not designing anything and I've never claimed to be any sort of (hardware) designer. The comment you replied to was about the compiler software. It had nothing to do with the electronics.

That post was not to you. I'm not sure what happened, but sometimes when I reply to a post, Google Groups actually brings up a different post. That was supposed to be a reply to a post by Wayne, in another thread even. I usually catch it.

Sorry.

--

Rick C.

---+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 1:07:51 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:11:42 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> writes:

Ok, enjoy. I think it's pretty clear now that you are an armchair designer.

I'm not designing anything and I've never claimed to be any sort of (hardware) designer. The comment you replied to was about the compiler software. It had nothing to do with the electronics.

That post was not to you. I'm not sure what happened, but sometimes when I reply to a post, Google Groups actually brings up a different post. That was supposed to be a reply to a post by Wayne, in another thread even. I usually catch it.

Sorry.

--

Rick C.

---+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

You just 'happen' to poison the wrong thread. I was
waiting for the penny to drop. Seeming to be helpful but
actually doing nothing but to draw up the wrong path to do
something. No big, long drawn out, in depth, non logo,
design process. Disappointed.

Again, in low energy extreme edge engineering, you start
with the minimum that you can fit the functionality into.
Have you done any ultra low energy engineering. You can
only start with the lowest parts and see if they fit, and
trim back your extra feature expectations. You may not
find the ideal part, because it doesn't exist, like a magnetic
processing unit with memory that dips 1 million times less
energy, with good density going at 500mhz+, which is
Magnetic Quantum Dot Cellular Automata, which isn't
available. So, instead of spending time finding and
going through tens of thousands of parts, you ask
others what they know of, and look at those companies
to see if they have anything better, and search their
competitors, and search to see if anybody has mentioned
those parts alongside even better alternatives. Bravo, you
have done it again.

You seem to be fairly consistent coming into my
threads and dropping bad answers and questions.

Now, you don't seem to realise that at different extremes of
design things flip. You see what is available, and how
much you can do with it, and mane a decision what to do, if
at all.

You are actually in agreement with the office chair
engineering (we'll call it, so not to be deliberately
derogative to many professional engineers, who
do cutting edge high volume work, rather than bulky
simplistic engineering). Where you estimate the
numbers, different feature sets, and also see what's out
there (maybe first) and work out if it's worth going
forwards. You find one times out of ten, even out of a
hundred or more, it's just not going be practical. You trim
back your expectations until it is, if at all practical to do
economically, or drop it. If one is really bad you can't do
this, or find better solutions. I used to just cull through all
the options maybe going through tens of thousands of
aspects, to be left with just the good ones. Takes several
hours to do. People wonder how I do it. I used to see,
model and multipath trace simulate the functionality of
the design in my mind. Find all the bad aspects and right
ways to do it. You seem too trapped in this simplistic
thing, that design happens to be physical technologies you
use as tools to make the actual design. You can spend
even years playing with that and never get a good design,
just a kludge that either doesn't fit it's purpose well, or
is not refined advancedly for
use or production. My inspiration comes from an
entirely different level of engineers. Who will normally
not come to a place this, due to heel biting. Heel biters
don't tend to get along so well working with others with
complimentary skills better than them, and may end up
working alone. There are a lot that start their own small
business, as they have the energy to run some things, but
not be MacDonald's, Apple, IBM, Musk or Walmart. You
come across them, arrogant, tense, terse, thinking they
should run things, and failing to ever get ahead. In reality,
some are good leading, administering, directing,
creating design, design, implementing design, or
making the design. These all have to work together to
make a good business. But people a bit of this, a bit of
that, nothing fantastic, don't get that far.

Energy is the issue to keep it small cheap low profile (I tend
not to use the term power in taking to the public about
processing designs, as people might get that
confused with talking about performance). If you cant,
and have to run a wire, then it automatically matters a lot
less about energy, as you automatically have added
bulk to the consumer device, making it less desirable to
buy, and you could just run a variety of not so low energy
devices in the design. You noticed many home
computers used to have the large power brick outside the
case, keeping it more attractive (and likely safer).
But, when you have to actively power the device,
that's going open up a lot of certification issues, and
sievtrim interference issues, which may require seperate
approvals in different countries. Something I don't
want to get into for a non high volume, low profit
product. If I was a person in China, and the distribution
channels leak things overseas, that would be
different. Magnetic parts might be an industry there to
reduce the requirements.

So, when you read Paul's post on a totally different subject,
and name, to mine. You didn't notice it want my name or the
subject I was talking about? I've noticed a few of what
seems to be 'google messed up posts' recently.

So, you can see. Help or not, it's all here to be seen.

What I really need, is a one pin video mode on HDMI. If only
it was designed more like display port, it might be easier to
interface to cheaply and compactly.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 7:52:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

I know we are waiting to hear what the 6Ghz chip Stephen has been working with will turn out like, and what Green Arrays will release for the glasses (which type of thing demands an advanced design). But recently, I saw a document on Colorforth for ARM,

and comparisons to Swift Forth etc. Which got me wondering about a lower end design. Now, with the passing of Doctor Ting, it reminds me of the Mup21 he had that kicked things off, and Jeff's work latter. Isn't it time we had something more like these
designs upgraded? 16 bit or more versions?

Syncing forth processor project threads.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 2:59:31 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 7:52:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

I know we are waiting to hear what the 6Ghz chip Stephen has been working with will turn out like, and what Green Arrays will release for the glasses (which type of thing demands an advanced design). But recently, I saw a document on Colorforth for

ARM, and comparisons to Swift Forth etc. Which got me wondering about a lower end design. Now, with the passing of Doctor Ting, it reminds me of the Mup21 he had that kicked things off, and Jeff's work latter. Isn't it time we had something more like
these designs upgraded? 16 bit or more versions?

Syncing forth processor project threads.

Forth processor project

Is it time for another Forth chip?

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/6adve-Z1ppU

Designing a Forth Processor?

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/9lpG9yey_NQ

A low cost chip prototyping technique.

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/s27tSebmF-I

Comments: ColorForth binary in JavaScript!

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/3py7TwKu6b0

Looking for some advice on Offete p8, p16, p24, p32, p64. Ep16, ep24, ep32, and others.

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/EMgCYdV8NR8

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On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 11:26:12 PM UTC+8, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 2:59:31 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 7:52:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

I know we are waiting to hear what the 6Ghz chip Stephen has been working with will turn out like, and what Green Arrays will release for the glasses (which type of thing demands an advanced design). But recently, I saw a document on Colorforth for

ARM, and comparisons to Swift Forth etc. Which got me wondering about a lower end design. Now, with the passing of Doctor Ting, it reminds me of the Mup21 he had that kicked things off, and Jeff's work latter. Isn't it time we had something more like
these designs upgraded? 16 bit or more versions?

Syncing forth processor project threads.

Forth processor project

Is it time for another Forth chip?

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/6adve-Z1ppU

Designing a Forth Processor?

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/9lpG9yey_NQ

A low cost chip prototyping technique.

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/s27tSebmF-I

Comments: ColorForth binary in JavaScript!

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/3py7TwKu6b0

Looking for some advice on Offete p8, p16, p24, p32, p64. Ep16, ep24, ep32, and others.

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/EMgCYdV8NR8

after all that has been said, ultimately, what matters is 1) low power 2) high performance 3) easy to program 4) tools available 5) cheap. so if a 8bit cpu can do the job, why use 32bit, green array's version may be the best candidate to upset the status
quo, especially if it has the ability to emulate any IO and still have all the atributes above, BUT it also must be able to access large memories or else it will not be able to do memory intensive product. still, as a super duper IO controller, it can
have mass market appeal especially in china for product manufacturing. if i am green array, now is a good time to go to china, especially when it is literally cowboy season where too much funds chasing all kinds of silicon solution ideas. if no one in
the world is willing to fund " dead end " chips, green Array got nothing to lose and everything to gain. if this even works 50%, at least forthers may still have our day in the sun. imagine a green array chip in every product shipped to the rest of the
world, much bigger market than the us.

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On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 8:13:53 PM UTC-4, John Tse wrote:

On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 11:26:12 PM UTC+8, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 2:59:31 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 7:52:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

I know we are waiting to hear what the 6Ghz chip Stephen has been working with will turn out like, and what Green Arrays will release for the glasses (which type of thing demands an advanced design). But recently, I saw a document on Colorforth

for ARM, and comparisons to Swift Forth etc. Which got me wondering about a lower end design. Now, with the passing of Doctor Ting, it reminds me of the Mup21 he had that kicked things off, and Jeff's work latter. Isn't it time we had something more like
these designs upgraded? 16 bit or more versions?

Syncing forth processor project threads.

Forth processor project

Is it time for another Forth chip?

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/6adve-Z1ppU

Designing a Forth Processor?

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/9lpG9yey_NQ

A low cost chip prototyping technique.

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/s27tSebmF-I

Comments: ColorForth binary in JavaScript!

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/3py7TwKu6b0

Looking for some advice on Offete p8, p16, p24, p32, p64. Ep16, ep24, ep32, and others.

https://groups.google.com/u/2/g/comp.lang.forth/c/EMgCYdV8NR8

after all that has been said, ultimately, what matters is 1) low power 2) high performance 3) easy to program 4) tools available 5) cheap. so if a 8bit cpu can do the job, why use 32bit, green array's version may be the best candidate to upset the

status quo, especially if it has the ability to emulate any IO and still have all the atributes above, BUT it also must be able to access large memories or else it will not be able to do memory intensive product. still, as a super duper IO controller, it
can have mass market appeal especially in china for product manufacturing. if i am green array, now is a good time to go to china, especially when it is literally cowboy season where too much funds chasing all kinds of silicon solution ideas. if no one
in the world is willing to fund " dead end " chips, green Array got nothing to lose and everything to gain. if this even works 50%, at least forthers may still have our day in the sun. imagine a green array chip in every product shipped to the rest of
the world, much bigger market than the us.

The Green Array GA144 has been available for what, a decade? Yet, there's no evidence of it finding it's way into any serious products. They originally bought some thousands of chips, because that was the minimum run for sampling purposes! There's no
indication they ever went back for a second run of parts.

There is no "day in the sun" for Forth. It had it's shining moment when it appeared on the cover of Byte magazine. It's been a gradual downgrade ever since. I understand it no longer appears on a ranking of the top computer programming languages (by "
top", I mean one in a hundred programmers have heard of it).

Forth is what it is. Use it, like it, don't use it, don''t like it. The world does not care. But there is virtually nothing to gain by anyone to produce a CPU chip that is in some way, optimized for running Forth. Even if it runs Forth twice as fast,
you can get that every easily from the pool of thousands of CPU chips now on the market.

To conceive, design and introduce a new product, you should first ask, "What problem am I trying to solve"? I think you will find there are no more problems in the CPU world other than the tradeoffs of power, performance and cost. I see no reason to
think a Forth oriented CPU design would be any better at this than what's available today.

--

Rick C.

---++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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In article <270b46a1-fb7d-420c-86fa-d37a90295c60n@googlegroups.com>,
Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>

To conceive, design and introduce a new product, you should first ask,
"What problem am I trying to solve"? I think you will find there are no
more problems in the CPU world other than the tradeoffs of power,
performance and cost. I see no reason to think a Forth oriented CPU
design would be any better at this than what's available today.

+1

Rick C.

--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

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On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 1:31:47 PM UTC+1, none albert wrote:

In article <270b46a1-fb7d-420c...@googlegroups.com>,
Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>

To conceive, design and introduce a new product, you should first ask, >"What problem am I trying to solve"? I think you will find there are no >more problems in the CPU world other than the tradeoffs of power, >performance and cost. I see no reason to think a Forth oriented CPU
design would be any better at this than what's available today.

+1

That invites a contrary opinion :--)

From personal experience, development of switch-mode power supplies
involves a joint effort of a group of highly specialized engineers. Developing prototype is hell, because a tiny error in a board layout, the software, or in doing measurements for debugging, can lead to catastrophic failure with
no option for repair. For some reason they always use the latest chips (not
all bugs known), and for some reason the manuals become bigger and
bigger (1000 pages for a digital controller with programmable I/O?). The
result is that for some types of bug, only a single person knows enough
to work on it, and nobody is able to help him because they have not read
the 1000 pages yet.

It would certainly help to have chips with an on-board RTOS and open
source drivers for all on-board I/O, plus ways to easily configure and
test stuff interactively.

The idea would be to make development less dependent on one or two
software engineers that know everything, and make it possible for
hardware people to at least intelligently step in for testing and
debugging.

-marcel

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On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 4:46:42 PM UTC-4, Marcel Hendrix wrote:

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 1:31:47 PM UTC+1, none albert wrote:

In article <270b46a1-fb7d-420c...@googlegroups.com>,
Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>

To conceive, design and introduce a new product, you should first ask, >"What problem am I trying to solve"? I think you will find there are no >more problems in the CPU world other than the tradeoffs of power, >performance and cost. I see no reason to think a Forth oriented CPU >design would be any better at this than what's available today.

+1

That invites a contrary opinion :--)

From personal experience, development of switch-mode power supplies
involves a joint effort of a group of highly specialized engineers. Developing
prototype is hell, because a tiny error in a board layout, the software, or in
doing measurements for debugging, can lead to catastrophic failure with
no option for repair. For some reason they always use the latest chips (not all bugs known), and for some reason the manuals become bigger and
bigger (1000 pages for a digital controller with programmable I/O?). The result is that for some types of bug, only a single person knows enough
to work on it, and nobody is able to help him because they have not read
the 1000 pages yet.

It would certainly help to have chips with an on-board RTOS and open
source drivers for all on-board I/O, plus ways to easily configure and
test stuff interactively.

The idea would be to make development less dependent on one or two
software engineers that know everything, and make it possible for
hardware people to at least intelligently step in for testing and
debugging.

I'm sure you think you have made a convincing argument, but of what exactly? Some MCU devices or worse, larger chips like they use in rPi and cell phone devices, have large complex manuals. That's because there are many systems on those devices, each
of which take many pages to document. But they still make 8051 devices, and other MCUs that are very basic and have much less documentation.

So, what exactly is your point? You don't even mention stacks or Forth support.

BTW, I just had some strawberries that looked fantastic, right red, nice size. But they were a disappointment, in that they were only a bit sweet, and much of the berry (the bits you can't see under the leaves and inside) were white and almost woody.
At least I got my roughage today.

See, that was not terribly relevant to the topic either.

--

Rick C.

--+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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