Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

I mean, really? Four lines to do what could be done in a single
expression? Was that written by a PHP programmer, do you think?

It is not fluent Python, that's for sure. No idea about PHP though. I
have been wondering about PHP recently. The language is painful but
the implementation has some attractions and it's widely available. So
I've wondered if it might be feasible to have a front end for it similar
to Typescript or Purescript.

Is this what you had in mind?

bufferedNumber = f'{doc.GetTime().GetFrame(docFps):04}'

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Looking at this article about the top three languages for getting
programming jobs <https://www.zdnet.com/article/want-a-programming-job-make-sure-you-learn-these-three-languages/>,
naturally I couldn’t help noticing the code in the screenshot at the
top (my transcription):

bufferedNumber = str(doc.GetTime().GetFrame(docFps))
if len(bufferedNumber)<4:
for x in range(len(bufferedNumber),4):
bufferedNumber = "0" + bufferedNumber

I mean, really? Four lines to do what could be done in a single
expression?

Was that written by a PHP programmer, do you think?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 25 Aug 2024 15:07:45 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

I mean, really? Four lines to do what could be done in a single
expression? Was that written by a PHP programmer, do you think?

It is not fluent Python, that's for sure. No idea about PHP though. I
have been wondering about PHP recently. The language is painful but the implementation has some attractions and it's widely available.

I earn part of my living from it. It’s something I use when I have to
(e.g. writing WordPress plugins). I don’t know what these “attractions” are that you speak of: Python is at least as widely available, and it does better than PHP at Web-based programming (supposedly PHP’s bread and
butter) because ASGI-based frameworks allow common handling of WebSocket connections together with regular HTTP ones, which is more awkward in PHP.

Is this what you had in mind?

bufferedNumber = f'{doc.GetTime().GetFrame(docFps):04}'

Printf style makes it explicit that it is an integer, and nothing else
will do:

bufferedNumber = "%0.4d" % doc.GetTime().GetFrame(docFps)

The irony of my putdown is that PHP can do it about as simply. But don’t expect your typical PHP programmers to know that ...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 25 Aug 2024 23:49:48 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

The irony of my putdown is that PHP can do it about as simply. But don’t expect your typical PHP programmers to know that ...

It has had amazing longevity for something that was born as Personal Home
Page.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

Printf style makes it explicit that it is an integer, and nothing else
will do:
bufferedNumber = "%0.4d" % doc.GetTime().GetFrame(docFps)

bufferedNumber = f'{doc.GetTime().GetFrame(docFps):04d}'

seems to handle it too.

Regarding PHP, many shared hosting vendors offer it without offering
Python. It's easier with PHP to serve many customers with a single PHP instantiation

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

Note that “04d” is not quite the same as “0.4d”.

For non-negative numbers, I think 04d does what the original verbose
code did. 0.4d for an integer isn't valid in an f-string. With
old-style formatting and negative numbers, 0.4d pads differently than
04d, and the original verbose code appears to be plain wrong, formatting
-1 as "00-1" if I'm not mistaken.

Python has ASGI, which offers your choice of Web frameworks founded on async/await and asyncio. Instead of running as an addon module in the Web server, the Python code runs in a separate process, with its own
independent flow of control. This is much more versatile.

Yes, and the separate processes use more machine resources which is why
low end hosting places prefer PHP.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:25:48 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

Printf style makes it explicit that it is an integer, and nothing else
will do:

bufferedNumber = "%0.4d" % doc.GetTime().GetFrame(docFps)

bufferedNumber = f'{doc.GetTime().GetFrame(docFps):04d}'

seems to handle it too.

Note that “04d” is not quite the same as “0.4d”.

Regarding PHP, many shared hosting vendors offer it without offering
Python. It's easier with PHP to serve many customers with a single PHP instantiation

I’m sure they do. It’s typically offered via the “mod_php” module that executes within an Apache web server process. Turns out there is an
interesting technical limitation of this, though: it doesn’t handle WebSockets very well.

Python has ASGI, which offers your choice of Web frameworks founded on async/await and asyncio. Instead of running as an addon module in the Web server, the Python code runs in a separate process, with its own
independent flow of control. This is much more versatile.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 15:06:03 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

0.4d for an integer isn't valid in an f-string.

I wonder why not?

Python has ASGI, which offers your choice of Web frameworks founded on
async/await and asyncio. Instead of running as an addon module in the
Web server, the Python code runs in a separate process, with its own
independent flow of control. This is much more versatile.

Yes, and the separate processes use more machine resources which is why
low end hosting places prefer PHP.

Separate PHP apps need separate web server processes, anyway.

You only need one process per Python app. The thing with ASGI is it *can* handle multiple connections at once, you know.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

0.4d for an integer isn't valid in an f-string.

I wonder why not?

Alternatively I wonder why it is valid in traditional format. I might
check the docs. I have never looked into this before.

Separate PHP apps need separate web server processes, anyway.

I had thought the opposite, but I'm not much of a PHP user.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 25/08/2024 23.53, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

Looking at this article about the top three languages for getting
programming jobs <https://www.zdnet.com/article/want-a-programming-job-make-sure-you-learn-these-three-languages/>,
naturally I couldn’t help noticing the code in the screenshot at the
top (my transcription):

bufferedNumber = str(doc.GetTime().GetFrame(docFps))
if len(bufferedNumber)<4:
for x in range(len(bufferedNumber),4):
bufferedNumber = "0" + bufferedNumber

I mean, really? Four lines to do what could be done in a single
expression?

Was that written by a PHP programmer, do you think?

That the more correct question would be:
What is easier to read? And to debug?
The four line version or the one liner?

To paraphrase someone:
"If the length of a program would be
measured by the time needed to understand
it, some program would be too short to
be short."

Because the world is plenty of one liner
nobody (almost) doesn't understand.

There is even a category in the OCC
(https://www.ioccc.org/).

Don't get me wrong, I like and dislike
one liner.
Namely, I like mine and dislike the others :-)

bye,

--

piergiorgio

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 27 Aug 2024 09:48:49 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

Separate PHP apps need separate web server processes, anyway.

I had thought the opposite, but I'm not much of a PHP user.

A PHP code page is written to respond to a single HTTP request and return
a single response. So to handle multiple simultaneous requests, you need multiple instances of that code running. mod_php can’t do that within a single process (I don’t think), so you need a separate process for each simultaneous connection. (Of course Web servers have techniques for
keeping and reusing those worker processes, to avoid doing fork(2) calls
all the time.)

With Python ASGI, you control what happens. A single process can handle multiple connections, if you so choose.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

With Python ASGI, you control what happens. A single process can
handle multiple connections, if you so choose.

Oh, I see what you mean. Yes you can write an ASGI server without multitasking, similar to node.js. Ugh. See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzkRVzciAZg

NSFW warning: this video is very funny but contains lots of swearing.
Better use headphones if you view it at the office.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 27 Aug 2024 23:01:33 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

With Python ASGI, you control what happens. A single process can handle
multiple connections, if you so choose.

Oh, I see what you mean. Yes you can write an ASGI server without multitasking, similar to node.js. Ugh.

Why “Ugh”? It avoids the overheads of multiple processes (where these are unnecessary), and the pitfalls of multiple threads.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)