• Re: Anyone still use only use the Terminal?

    From Ethan Carter@21:1/5 to Borax Man on Wed Apr 23 00:25:55 2025
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> writes:

    Subject says it all.

    I'm curious whether there are people who do all their computing, or part
    of it, without a GUI at all. That is, just plain Text Mode.

    I'd begin by asking the guy behind FreeDOS.

    https://freedos.org/

    While I use a GUI mostly, there are times I just want to discard the GUI
    and switch to the Framebuffer and just use text mode. Its not just for 'retro' reasons, but having a purely text based set up does reduce distraction! The fact that nothing else is visible (except the TMUX modeline) and nothing else is going on, just creates a different
    experience, one more conducive to single minded focus. The mental
    map of what is going on is different, cleaner.

    Just want to hear other peoples thought, whether they find this too.

    (*) A computer built to last 50 years

    You might also be interested in communities that are forming around
    ideas such as the Forever Computer

    https://ploum.net/2022-12-03-reinventing-how-we-use-computers.html

    You'll pointers there for mailing lists.

    (*) Dusk OS

    Another interesting project that's related is Dusk OS.

    http://duskos.org

    (*) BSD system, CWM, GNU EMACS

    The GNU EMACS is way more than a text editor, in which you can handle
    mail and news---all in essentially a plain-text interface, with all the advantages of a GUI. (If X Windows is not available, you can still use
    it in a text-only interface, which is a wonderful feature of the
    system.)

    Window managers such as CWM give you the sense of a text interface with
    all the advantages of a GUI, being able to see your graphical browser,
    watch videos or whatever whenever you want and getting all windows out
    of the way when you'd like to. You'd need to learn to use it, of
    course, but it's doable---I use it. (My system is essentially OpenBSD
    running cwm, GNU EMACS, Firefox, xfe [for a file explorer
    Microsoft-like], qpdfview, evince and xterm---a good deal of
    configuration of X with Fira Code installed, and EMACS running in daemon
    mode for quick loading if new frames, that is, windows). Feel free to
    get in touch if you'd like to come this way. I'd give you support and directions.

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  • From John McCue@21:1/5 to Ethan Carter on Fri Apr 25 15:19:36 2025
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    Followuos changed to: comp.misc

    In comp.misc Ethan Carter <ec1828@somewhere.edu> wrote:
    Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> writes:

    Subject says it all.

    I'm curious whether there are people who do all their computing, or part
    of it, without a GUI at all. That is, just plain Text Mode.

    I'd begin by asking the guy behind FreeDOS.

    https://freedos.org/

    Another place to look is enterprise level computing.

    If supporting processes on a server, more then likely
    you are using a command line supporting the processes.

    For example, I developed/supported an ERP system running
    on AIX, it was command line only. Lucky for me, my
    workstation at the time was RHEL, so X-forwarding was
    available. But the tools were all command-line, so a GUI
    was not an option..

    <snip>

    --
    [t]csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
    - Paraphrasing Star Wars

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  • From Jim Jackson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 25 20:09:56 2025
    Subject says it all.

    I'm curious whether there are people who do all their computing, or part
    of it, without a GUI at all. That is, just plain Text Mode.


    What!!! You mean that GUI thing actually caught on with some people?
    I thought it wa a passing fad.

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Ethan Carter on Fri Apr 25 23:21:39 2025
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 00:25:55 -0300, Ethan Carter wrote:

    The GNU EMACS is way more than a text editor, in which you can handle
    mail and news---all in essentially a plain-text interface, with all the advantages of a GUI.

    The GUI version of Emacs even comes with a GTK-based build that works with Wayland.

    The graphical version of Emacs comes with something resembling a GUI
    toolkit built-in. To see an example of this in action, select “About
    Emacs” from the “Help” menu.

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Jim Jackson on Fri Apr 25 23:38:00 2025
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 20:09:56 -0000 (UTC), Jim Jackson wrote:

    What!!! You mean that GUI thing actually caught on with some people?
    I thought it wa a passing fad.

    People outside the *nix world are rediscovering the things that the
    command line makes easier than any GUI -- namely, automating repetitive
    tasks.

    Trouble is, after so many decades of being conditioned by major vendors
    like Microsoft and Apple to be allergic to the command line, it’s turning
    out to require some major intellectual effort, on the part of both users
    and vendors, to get to grips with this new-old way of doing things. Look
    at Microsoft’s struggles to turn Windows into something closer to Linux.

    Apple in theory has a slight advantage in that, buried somewhere within
    its proprietary OS is the remnants of something that used to be more like
    a *nix system. But it seems to have deviated too far from the mainstream,
    and the company shows little interest in remedying that.

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to John McCue on Fri Apr 25 23:22:27 2025
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 15:19:36 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

    If supporting processes on a server, more then likely you are using a
    command line supporting the processes.

    And perhaps a tool like screen or tmux at the remote end, to support
    multiple shell sessions.

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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Sat Apr 26 00:34:24 2025
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 23:21:39 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    The GUI version of Emacs even comes with a GTK-based build that works
    with Wayland.

    I haven't used emacs in over 20 years but if there was one program that benefited by having a GUI with menus, that was it. I've used gVim for
    years but seldom use the menus; I like it because you don't lose a
    terminal like Vim.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Borax Man@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Sat Apr 26 01:24:15 2025
    XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
    On 2025-04-25, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 20:09:56 -0000 (UTC), Jim Jackson wrote:

    What!!! You mean that GUI thing actually caught on with some people?
    I thought it wa a passing fad.

    People outside the *nix world are rediscovering the things that the
    command line makes easier than any GUI -- namely, automating repetitive tasks.

    Trouble is, after so many decades of being conditioned by major vendors
    like Microsoft and Apple to be allergic to the command line, it’s turning out to require some major intellectual effort, on the part of both users
    and vendors, to get to grips with this new-old way of doing things. Look
    at Microsoft’s struggles to turn Windows into something closer to Linux.

    Apple in theory has a slight advantage in that, buried somewhere within
    its proprietary OS is the remnants of something that used to be more like
    a *nix system. But it seems to have deviated too far from the mainstream,
    and the company shows little interest in remedying that.

    The command line is like "telling" the computer what to do. The GUI is
    like "showing" the computer what to do. Not having any command line
    usage at all, make certain things, automation, but even composing
    commands, very difficult. Imagine having to work with someone, and you alway had to show them, visually, what to do. That you could not say to them something like "grab all the bottles of beer with a green label and put them in the tub". You had to
    instead, point each time.

    For example, at work, I often have to do repetive work (such as generate specifications). This involves a lot of bring up dialog boxes, clicking options, saving files, changing filenames, over and over and over again.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Mike Spencer@21:1/5 to Borax Man on Sat Apr 26 02:14:33 2025
    Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> writes:

    The command line is like "telling" the computer what to do. The GUI is
    like "showing" the computer what to do. Not having any command line
    usage at all, make certain things, automation, but even composing
    commands, very difficult.


    The command line is like language. The GUI is like shopping.


    For example, at work, I often have to do repetive work (such as generate specifications). This involves a lot of bring up dialog boxes, clicking options, saving files, changing filenames, over and over and over again.

    Yeah, pits.

    --
    Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

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  • From Bob Eager@21:1/5 to Jim Jackson on Sat Apr 26 07:49:26 2025
    On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 20:09:56 +0000, Jim Jackson wrote:

    Subject says it all.

    I'm curious whether there are people who do all their computing, or
    part of it, without a GUI at all. That is, just plain Text Mode.


    What!!! You mean that GUI thing actually caught on with some people?
    I thought it wa a passing fad.

    I use the GUI for email and web browsing.

    But command line for almost everything else.

    I did start usiing UNIX way before GUIs (see sig)



    --
    Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

    Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
    http://www.mirrorservice.org

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  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to Borax Man on Sat Apr 26 13:07:23 2025
    Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote or quoted:
    For example, at work, I often have to do repetive work (such as generate >specifications). This involves a lot of bring up dialog boxes, clicking >options, saving files, changing filenames, over and over and over again.

    And good software like Microsoft® Word or Micorsoft® Excel
    even has a macro recorder that will save your activities to
    VBA code which you then can edit and adapt. VBA allows one to
    do programmatically whatever is possible via the GUI or create
    a custom GUI. Today, you can tell the chatbot what you want
    to do, and he'll then give you the VBA code . . .

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  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to Borax Man on Sat Apr 26 12:49:06 2025
    Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote or quoted:
    For example, at work, I often have to do repetive work (such as generate >specifications). This involves a lot of bring up dialog boxes, clicking >options, saving files, changing filenames, over and over and over again.

    On Windows one also can access the screen programmatically with code
    that goes somewhat like, "If there is a dialog of this class on the
    screen, then press its [OK] button. Wait one second. Wait until a
    Window with 'editor' in its title comes up. Then press [Ctrl]-[F]."

    This kind of programming is what AutoHotKey (AHK) on Windows
    was made for, but it's also possible from other programming
    languages (like Python) on Windows. When using AHK, you can
    set up a keyboard shortcut to start such code. AHK examples:

    ^F16:: ; whenever Ctrl-F16 is pressed:
    Send, `q ; press q
    Sleep, 250 ; wait 0.25 seconds
    Send {F2} ; press F2

    F17::
    WinGetPos, winWidth, winHeight, , , A ; get position of active window
    if ( winWidth == -4 and winHeight == -4) { . . .

    Disadvantages: You have to take time to actually write such code,
    and there's some risk that it inadvertently might press a wrong
    button with unforeseeable consequences.

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Stefan Ram on Sat Apr 26 23:07:04 2025
    On 26 Apr 2025 12:49:06 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

    On Windows one also can access the screen programmatically with code
    that goes somewhat like, "If there is a dialog of this class on the
    screen, then press its [OK] button. Wait one second. Wait until a
    Window with 'editor' in its title comes up. Then press [Ctrl]-[F]."

    This idea has been tried with every GUI. Think of it as the worst of both worlds: the complexity of learning how to write code combined with the
    slowness and fragility of trying to automate something that was never
    designed to be automated.

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  • From candycanearter07@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Sun Apr 27 06:00:05 2025
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 23:07 this Saturday (GMT):
    On 26 Apr 2025 12:49:06 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

    On Windows one also can access the screen programmatically with code
    that goes somewhat like, "If there is a dialog of this class on the
    screen, then press its [OK] button. Wait one second. Wait until a
    Window with 'editor' in its title comes up. Then press [Ctrl]-[F]."

    This idea has been tried with every GUI. Think of it as the worst of both worlds: the complexity of learning how to write code combined with the slowness and fragility of trying to automate something that was never designed to be automated.


    Automating something that wasn't designed for it is the worst.
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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