XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> writes:

Subject says it all.

I'm curious whether there are people who do all their computing, or part
of it, without a GUI at all. That is, just plain Text Mode.

I'd begin by asking the guy behind FreeDOS.

https://freedos.org/

While I use a GUI mostly, there are times I just want to discard the GUI
and switch to the Framebuffer and just use text mode. Its not just for 'retro' reasons, but having a purely text based set up does reduce distraction! The fact that nothing else is visible (except the TMUX modeline) and nothing else is going on, just creates a different
experience, one more conducive to single minded focus. The mental
map of what is going on is different, cleaner.

Just want to hear other peoples thought, whether they find this too.

(*) A computer built to last 50 years

You might also be interested in communities that are forming around
ideas such as the Forever Computer

https://ploum.net/2022-12-03-reinventing-how-we-use-computers.html

You'll pointers there for mailing lists.

(*) Dusk OS

Another interesting project that's related is Dusk OS.

http://duskos.org

(*) BSD system, CWM, GNU EMACS

The GNU EMACS is way more than a text editor, in which you can handle
mail and news---all in essentially a plain-text interface, with all the advantages of a GUI. (If X Windows is not available, you can still use
it in a text-only interface, which is a wonderful feature of the
system.)

Window managers such as CWM give you the sense of a text interface with
all the advantages of a GUI, being able to see your graphical browser,
watch videos or whatever whenever you want and getting all windows out
of the way when you'd like to. You'd need to learn to use it, of
course, but it's doable---I use it. (My system is essentially OpenBSD
running cwm, GNU EMACS, Firefox, xfe [for a file explorer
Microsoft-like], qpdfview, evince and xterm---a good deal of
configuration of X with Fira Code installed, and EMACS running in daemon
mode for quick loading if new frames, that is, windows). Feel free to
get in touch if you'd like to come this way. I'd give you support and directions.

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XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

Followuos changed to: comp.misc

In comp.misc Ethan Carter <ec1828@somewhere.edu> wrote:

Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> writes:

Subject says it all.

I'm curious whether there are people who do all their computing, or part
of it, without a GUI at all. That is, just plain Text Mode.

I'd begin by asking the guy behind FreeDOS.

https://freedos.org/

Another place to look is enterprise level computing.

If supporting processes on a server, more then likely
you are using a command line supporting the processes.

For example, I developed/supported an ERP system running
on AIX, it was command line only. Lucky for me, my
workstation at the time was RHEL, so X-forwarding was
available. But the tools were all command-line, so a GUI
was not an option..

<snip>

--
[t]csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
- Paraphrasing Star Wars

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Subject says it all.

I'm curious whether there are people who do all their computing, or part
of it, without a GUI at all. That is, just plain Text Mode.

What!!! You mean that GUI thing actually caught on with some people?
I thought it wa a passing fad.

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XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 00:25:55 -0300, Ethan Carter wrote:

The GNU EMACS is way more than a text editor, in which you can handle
mail and news---all in essentially a plain-text interface, with all the advantages of a GUI.

The GUI version of Emacs even comes with a GTK-based build that works with Wayland.

The graphical version of Emacs comes with something resembling a GUI
toolkit built-in. To see an example of this in action, select “About
Emacs” from the “Help” menu.

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XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 20:09:56 -0000 (UTC), Jim Jackson wrote:

What!!! You mean that GUI thing actually caught on with some people?
I thought it wa a passing fad.

People outside the *nix world are rediscovering the things that the
command line makes easier than any GUI -- namely, automating repetitive
tasks.

Trouble is, after so many decades of being conditioned by major vendors
like Microsoft and Apple to be allergic to the command line, it’s turning
out to require some major intellectual effort, on the part of both users
and vendors, to get to grips with this new-old way of doing things. Look
at Microsoft’s struggles to turn Windows into something closer to Linux.

Apple in theory has a slight advantage in that, buried somewhere within
its proprietary OS is the remnants of something that used to be more like
a *nix system. But it seems to have deviated too far from the mainstream,
and the company shows little interest in remedying that.

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XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 15:19:36 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

If supporting processes on a server, more then likely you are using a
command line supporting the processes.

And perhaps a tool like screen or tmux at the remote end, to support
multiple shell sessions.

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XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 23:21:39 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

The GUI version of Emacs even comes with a GTK-based build that works
with Wayland.

I haven't used emacs in over 20 years but if there was one program that benefited by having a GUI with menus, that was it. I've used gVim for
years but seldom use the menus; I like it because you don't lose a
terminal like Vim.

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XPost: comp.os.linux.advocacy

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2025-04-25, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 20:09:56 -0000 (UTC), Jim Jackson wrote:

What!!! You mean that GUI thing actually caught on with some people?
I thought it wa a passing fad.

People outside the *nix world are rediscovering the things that the
command line makes easier than any GUI -- namely, automating repetitive tasks.

Trouble is, after so many decades of being conditioned by major vendors
like Microsoft and Apple to be allergic to the command line, it’s turning out to require some major intellectual effort, on the part of both users
and vendors, to get to grips with this new-old way of doing things. Look
at Microsoft’s struggles to turn Windows into something closer to Linux.

Apple in theory has a slight advantage in that, buried somewhere within
its proprietary OS is the remnants of something that used to be more like
a *nix system. But it seems to have deviated too far from the mainstream,
and the company shows little interest in remedying that.

The command line is like "telling" the computer what to do. The GUI is
like "showing" the computer what to do. Not having any command line
usage at all, make certain things, automation, but even composing
commands, very difficult. Imagine having to work with someone, and you alway had to show them, visually, what to do. That you could not say to them something like "grab all the bottles of beer with a green label and put them in the tub". You had to
instead, point each time.

For example, at work, I often have to do repetive work (such as generate specifications). This involves a lot of bring up dialog boxes, clicking options, saving files, changing filenames, over and over and over again.

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Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> writes:

The command line is like "telling" the computer what to do. The GUI is
like "showing" the computer what to do. Not having any command line
usage at all, make certain things, automation, but even composing
commands, very difficult.

The command line is like language. The GUI is like shopping.

For example, at work, I often have to do repetive work (such as generate specifications). This involves a lot of bring up dialog boxes, clicking options, saving files, changing filenames, over and over and over again.

Yeah, pits.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

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On Fri, 25 Apr 2025 20:09:56 +0000, Jim Jackson wrote:

Subject says it all.

I'm curious whether there are people who do all their computing, or
part of it, without a GUI at all. That is, just plain Text Mode.

What!!! You mean that GUI thing actually caught on with some people?
I thought it wa a passing fad.

I use the GUI for email and web browsing.

But command line for almost everything else.

I did start usiing UNIX way before GUIs (see sig)



--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

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Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote or quoted:

For example, at work, I often have to do repetive work (such as generate >specifications). This involves a lot of bring up dialog boxes, clicking >options, saving files, changing filenames, over and over and over again.

And good software like Microsoft® Word or Micorsoft® Excel
even has a macro recorder that will save your activities to
VBA code which you then can edit and adapt. VBA allows one to
do programmatically whatever is possible via the GUI or create
a custom GUI. Today, you can tell the chatbot what you want
to do, and he'll then give you the VBA code . . .

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Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote or quoted:

For example, at work, I often have to do repetive work (such as generate >specifications). This involves a lot of bring up dialog boxes, clicking >options, saving files, changing filenames, over and over and over again.

On Windows one also can access the screen programmatically with code
that goes somewhat like, "If there is a dialog of this class on the
screen, then press its [OK] button. Wait one second. Wait until a
Window with 'editor' in its title comes up. Then press [Ctrl]-[F]."

This kind of programming is what AutoHotKey (AHK) on Windows
was made for, but it's also possible from other programming
languages (like Python) on Windows. When using AHK, you can
set up a keyboard shortcut to start such code. AHK examples:

^F16:: ; whenever Ctrl-F16 is pressed:
Send, `q ; press q
Sleep, 250 ; wait 0.25 seconds
Send {F2} ; press F2

F17::
WinGetPos, winWidth, winHeight, , , A ; get position of active window
if ( winWidth == -4 and winHeight == -4) { . . .

Disadvantages: You have to take time to actually write such code,
and there's some risk that it inadvertently might press a wrong
button with unforeseeable consequences.

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On 26 Apr 2025 12:49:06 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

On Windows one also can access the screen programmatically with code
that goes somewhat like, "If there is a dialog of this class on the
screen, then press its [OK] button. Wait one second. Wait until a
Window with 'editor' in its title comes up. Then press [Ctrl]-[F]."

This idea has been tried with every GUI. Think of it as the worst of both worlds: the complexity of learning how to write code combined with the
slowness and fragility of trying to automate something that was never
designed to be automated.

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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 23:07 this Saturday (GMT):

On 26 Apr 2025 12:49:06 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

On Windows one also can access the screen programmatically with code
that goes somewhat like, "If there is a dialog of this class on the
screen, then press its [OK] button. Wait one second. Wait until a
Window with 'editor' in its title comes up. Then press [Ctrl]-[F]."

This idea has been tried with every GUI. Think of it as the worst of both worlds: the complexity of learning how to write code combined with the slowness and fragility of trying to automate something that was never designed to be automated.

Automating something that wasn't designed for it is the worst.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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