• How many years is the oldest iPhone & iPad fully supported by Apple tod

    From Wally J@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 18 18:28:26 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    This is an important question given iOS has the shortest full support
    lifecycle of all common consumer operating systems, including Android.

    FACT:
    *Apple fully supports only a _single_ operating-system major version*

    That means, as of today, an iPhone 8, for example, is toast from a security standpoint (which is why iOS has the most exploits of all mobile systems!).

    Of the few iPhones & iPads which are still fully supported on iOS 17...
    *How old are they?*

    HINT: The iPhone XR, shipped in October 2018 is only five years old. DOUBLEHINT: The iPhone 8 shipped in September 2017 is only six years old.

    Think about _why_ I ask given iKooks lied for years about Apple support.

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  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Wally J on Mon Sep 18 15:44:41 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    On 2023-09-18 15:28, Wally J wrote:
    This is an important question given iOS has the shortest full support lifecycle of all common consumer operating systems, including Android.

    FACT:
    *Apple fully supports only a _single_ operating-system major version*

    That means, as of today, an iPhone 8, for example, is toast from a security standpoint (which is why iOS has the most exploits of all mobile systems!).

    Of the few iPhones & iPads which are still fully supported on iOS 17...
    *How old are they?*

    HINT: The iPhone XR, shipped in October 2018 is only five years old. DOUBLEHINT: The iPhone 8 shipped in September 2017 is only six years old.

    Think about _why_ I ask given iKooks lied for years about Apple support.

    No one has lied about it except YOU, Arlen

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  • From Dorper@21:1/5 to Wally J on Wed Sep 27 16:52:37 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    On Sep 18, 2023, Wally J wrote
    (in article <ueaiua$j7uq$1@paganini.bofh.team>):

    which is why iOS has the most exploits of all mobile systems!

    This is not true. There was typically a single vulnerability per version that will allow for root access on an iPhone. These were typically used for jailbreaking and usually required a connection to a computer and physical access to the device. There isn't any exploit available for iOS 15 or 16 on devices newer than A11 (because there is a boot exploit on earlier versions, which is similar to unlocking a bootloader on an Android device). Of course none of this can compare to BlackBerry 10's record of zero exploits from release to discontinuation. There remains no way to gain root access on a BlackBerry 10 device.

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  • From Wally J@21:1/5 to Dorper on Wed Sep 27 20:17:16 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    Dorper <usenet@dorper.me> wrote

    which is why iOS has the most exploits of all mobile systems!

    This is not true. There was typically a single vulnerability per version that will allow for root access on an iPhone. These were typically used for jailbreaking and usually required a connection to a computer and physical access to the device. There isn't any exploit available for iOS 15 or 16 on devices newer than A11 (because there is a boot exploit on earlier versions, which is similar to unlocking a bootloader on an Android device). Of course none of this can compare to BlackBerry 10's record of zero exploits from release to discontinuation. There remains no way to gain root access on a BlackBerry 10 device.

    For the past three years iOS has had double & triple the zero-day bugs,
    but we're talking here about active exploits in the wild, right?

    None of which are ever found by the incompetent Apple QA engineering team. (Some of which are found twice! Yup. Apple doesn't institute any checks!)

    Everyone who knows anything about Apple knows they're incompetent at
    software QA - haven't you seen the published internal emails about it?

    Just look at the astoundingly huge number of iOS *active exploits*!
    <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

    The reason is partly because Apple summarily drops full patch support the instant the next release of iOS or macOS ships. Apple support sucks.

    *Tick. Tock. Dead. Gone.*
    <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>

    Any iPhone that can't install iOS 17 is likely already filled with exploits
    and definitely it will never be patched with all Apple's known patches.
    <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/
    <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases
    <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/

    It's important to note that no other operating system vendor of a common consumer operating system has a support policy that atrocious. Only Apple!

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  • From RabidPedagog@21:1/5 to Dorper on Wed Sep 27 20:17:34 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    On 2023-09-27 7:52 p.m., Dorper wrote:
    On Sep 18, 2023, Wally J wrote
    (in article <ueaiua$j7uq$1@paganini.bofh.team>):

    which is why iOS has the most exploits of all mobile systems!

    This is not true. There was typically a single vulnerability per version that will allow for root access on an iPhone. These were typically used for jailbreaking and usually required a connection to a computer and physical access to the device. There isn't any exploit available for iOS 15 or 16 on devices newer than A11 (because there is a boot exploit on earlier versions, which is similar to unlocking a bootloader on an Android device). Of course none of this can compare to BlackBerry 10's record of zero exploits from release to discontinuation. There remains no way to gain root access on a BlackBerry 10 device.

    I enjoyed my Z10 for as long as I had it. It tried to give its users an Apple-like experience but failed. Security was admittedly spectacular
    though, as was the fact that users could easily change the battery or
    expand storage. In fact, I was able to get a double-size battery to
    extend the life of the thing since it wasn't too power efficient.

    --
    RabidPedagog
    TG: @RabidPedagog
    Galatians 6:7

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  • From Dorper@21:1/5 to RabidPedagog on Wed Sep 27 20:09:11 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    On Sep 27, 2023, RabidPedagog wrote
    (in article <xC3RM.261928$2ph4.111275@fx14.iad>):
    I enjoyed my Z10 for as long as I had it. It tried to give its users an Apple-like experience but failed. Security was admittedly spectacular
    though, as was the fact that users could easily change the battery or
    expand storage. In fact, I was able to get a double-size battery to
    extend the life of the thing since it wasn't too power efficient.
    BB10 also had spectacular multitasking functionality. In fact, many of the multitasking gestures on iOS are the same as on BB10.

    On Sep 27, 2023, Wally J wrote
    (in article <uf2gmb$2mtho$1@paganini.bofh.team>):
    For the past three years iOS has had double& triple the zero-day bugs,
    but we're talking here about active exploits in the wild, right? Of which most are minor. If they were major bugs then we would have a jailbreak, which we
    don't. A major bug is one that grants root access.

    Just look at the astoundingly huge number of iOS *active exploits*! <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog> Ah yes NVD/CVE, well known for not giving ridiculously high scores to minor bugs
    <https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2023/08/26/cve-2020-19909-is-everything-that-is- wrong-with-cves/>
    (An already fixed bug in cURL causes a retry-delay of around 2^64/1000 to
    wait a few seconds instead of the expected time until the heat death of the universe. This "bug" is apparently worthy of a 9.8 rating for some reason)

    The reason is partly because Apple summarily drops full patch support the instant the next release of iOS or macOS ships. Apple support sucks. This is false. Apple supports iOS 15, 16, 17 and macOS 11, 12, 13, and 14. Having only
    two years of support sounds like it sucks (it does) but that is what most companies do now. Microsoft only supported Windows 10 21H2 for two years.
    Rapid (but not rolling) release is now seen as a better marketing strategy
    than releasing a new OS every 3-6 years like Microsoft and then supporting it for 10 years (to be fair to Microsoft, they will continue to support Windows
    10 until2025, a total of 11 years)
    With the SaaS business model, not anymore. Microsoft (didn't) sell hardware
    so the business model was making sure Windows runs on literally any computer. Which is why Windows 10 will "run" on a Pentium 4. Apple sells hardware on
    the other hand and will support their computers with updates for 8 years. An issue is that Apple doesn't have a vested interest in ensuring older devices can run the latest software, but 8 years is pretty good. iPhones have a
    shorter support window of 6 years. In my experience, Android phones don't get major support for 6 years and it is up to the manufacturer and for some
    reason your carrier to put out updates. At least you aren't forced to pay for security updates!

    It's important to note that no other operating system vendor of a common consumer operating system has a support policy that atrocious. Only Apple!
    Oracle and RedHat. ArcaOS but nobody has heard of that. $200 for a year of updates.

    Any iPhone that can't install iOS 17 is likely already filled with exploits and definitely it will never be patched with all Apple's known patches. Fear mongering over this sentence:
    Note: Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any current version of Apple operating systems (for example, macOS 13, iOS 16 and so on),
    not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions (for
    example, macOS 12, iOS 15 and so on).
    However Apple does appear to fixing security issues in previous versions
    based on CVE details.

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  • From Dorper@21:1/5 to Wally J on Thu Sep 28 22:01:39 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    On Sep 28, 2023, Wally J wrote
    (in article <uf5kb8$30i8d$1@paganini.bofh.team>):

    Dorper <usenet@dorper.me> wrote

    However Apple does appear to fixing security issues in previous versions based on CVE details.

    Don't be fooled...

    According to the gov, there is no smartphone OS more exploited than is iOS. <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

    CISA NVD is a mirror of The MITRE Corporation's CVE system, which is flawed. And you don't understand how different operating systems are packaged.

    The Android base distribution (not including any OEM added stock apps, only AOSP) has had 2593 CVEs in the last 10 years. https://www.cvedetails.com/product/19997/Google-Android.html?vendor_id=1224

    I am not sure if this includes the Linux Kernel but if it doesn't you will
    have to add around a 1000 more vulnerabilities.

    Compare to iOS (including stock apps) CVE count which is 2156. https://www.cvedetails.com/product/15556/Apple-Iphone-Os.html?vendor_id=49

    Last time I checked, 2593 is a bigger number than 2156. So using your own (flawed) source, the NVD, we can see that you are wrong. Not like CVE count actually means anything; like most of the "security" industry it is overhyped nonsense.

    Due to the primitive update mechanism only Apple employs, zero-day bugs last far longer in Apple operating system than in Android for example.

    Windows employs the same update strategy. https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=windows+10

    macOS used to have updates in the App Store but this was moved to the
    Settings app.
    Android uses Linux, a monolithic kernel. Modules typically are incompatible between versions of Linux due to there not being a stable ABI. Android
    appears to update the kernel all at once. https://source.android.com/docs/core/architecture/kernel/releases

    And the iOS security sandbox model makes it so a compromised app will not be able to screw up the entire rest of your system, like it is so in Android.

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  • From Wally J@21:1/5 to Dorper on Fri Sep 29 05:38:01 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    Dorper <usenet@dorper.me> wrote

    However Apple does appear to fixing security issues in previous versions based on CVE details.

    Don't be fooled...

    According to the gov, there is no smartphone OS more exploited than is iOS.
    <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

    The reason is most likely the primitive monolithic update mechanism that
    only Apple uses (no other operating system uses Apple's primitive method).

    Due to the primitive update mechanism only Apple employs, zero-day bugs
    last far longer in Apple operating system than in Android for example.

    That's gives bad actors tremendously more time to exploit Apple systems.
    Plus, the fact Apple summarily drops full OS support every year helps them.
    <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>

    Security professionals have been well aware of the atrocious Apple support mechanism but it was only this year Apple was forced to publicly admit it.
    <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
    <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
    <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
    --
    My goal on the child-like Apple newsgroups is to spread the truth about
    Apple (and to show ignorant low-IQ uneducated iKooks for what they are).

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  • From candycanearter07@21:1/5 to Wally J on Fri Sep 29 00:49:09 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    On 9/29/23 00:32, Wally J wrote:
    To be clear, you may not even be aware that only in iOS 16 did iOS _begin_
    to break down that primitive monolith - which I'm not sure you're aware of.

    *About Rapid Security Responses - only available in iOS 16 and up*
    <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>

    Wait, they're *that* recent?

    Windows employs the same update strategy.
    https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=windows+10

    You can't seriously claim, sans a shred of evidence, that Windows is a monolith like iOS is a monolith since Microsoft does NOT update
    Windows as the primitive stone-age monolithic package that Apple uses.


    Plus they have a better security update policy.

    How do most Windows users get their updated drivers, for example?
    *You do know they don't generally come from Microsoft, right?*

    Where do you think the iOS drivers come from?

    To be fair, Apple is the only company making iOS compatible devices.
    Still is frustrating they don't separate the updates, though.


    Quite different from Apple's monolithic update mechanism, Android has
    Project Treble with Qualcomm where the drivers are asynchronously
    updated irrespective of the carrier and the Android release process. <https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2020/12/qualcomm-and-google-announce-collaboration-extend-android-os-support-and>

    Likewise, are you aware how major applications on Windows and Android
    update? Again, nothing like that of the primitive monolithic method Apple uses.

    You can't be oblivious that with Apple - it's everything - or nothing.
    With every other operating system - the updates are in many layers.

    With iOS, you instantly lose full support the moment a next release ships!
    *Distinguishing software updates from upgrades*
    <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>

    It's fine that Apple uses a stone-age primitive update mechanism - which is Apple's prerogative - but it's the main reason iOS has the most zero day holes and even more importantly the most exploited zero-day holes.

    By far.

    "Courage" (sarcastic)


    And the iOS security sandbox model makes it so a compromised app will not be >> able to screw up the entire rest of your system, like it is so in Android.

    WTF? You've never heard of the many zero-click zero-day exploits of iOS?
    Are you serious?

    Again, we have to get to common ground which is you can't discount that
    on average, iOS has had one a month (sometimes two or three!) for years!

    *You can't just ignore that iOS has been extremely insecure* (for years!)

    That is *way* worse than I expected, geezus.
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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  • From Wally J@21:1/5 to no@thanks.net on Fri Sep 29 06:58:23 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote

    *About Rapid Security Responses - only available in iOS 16 and up*
    <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>

    Wait, they're *that* recent?

    The main reason iOS is exploited many times more than is Android is that
    until iOS 16, Apple had no concept of just patching a single bug.

    Only in iOS 16 did Apple get with the program of using what every other
    common consumer operating system does - which is patch the bugs.


    Windows employs the same update strategy.
    https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=windows+10

    You can't seriously claim, sans a shred of evidence, that Windows is a
    monolith like iOS is a monolith since Microsoft does NOT update
    Windows as the primitive stone-age monolithic package that Apple uses.


    Plus they have a better security update policy.

    Windows support is far longer than anything Apple has ever delivered,
    but my point was that with iOS, it's all or nothing. Usually nothing.

    With Windows, the drivers, for example, are independently updated.
    Just like they are with Qualcomm Android drivers (under Project Treble).

    The mistake the Apple owners are making is they are unaware that an
    operating system consists of layers, not all of which are updated by the manufacturer of the device (e.g., Nvidia updates Windows drivers
    independently of Microsoft updates of the Windows operating system).

    With iOS it's different. Especially since Apple fully supports only one
    release (unlike Windows/Android which fully support multiple releases).

    With iOS it's all or nothing (usually nothing if you're on iOS 16).

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  • From Wally J@21:1/5 to Dorper on Fri Sep 29 06:32:22 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    Dorper <usenet@dorper.me> wrote

    According to the gov, there is no smartphone OS more exploited than is iOS. >> <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

    CISA NVD is a mirror of The MITRE Corporation's CVE system, which is flawed. And you don't understand how different operating systems are packaged.

    It's good that you're thinking - which means there's a possibility of
    learning but first we have to equilibrate our knowledge to a common ground.

    You can't seriously claim, sans a single slice of evidence, that I don't understand that iOS is packaged as a monolith (yes, a delta is applied to
    each & every user but the release is built and tested as a monolith).

    To be clear, you may not even be aware that only in iOS 16 did iOS _begin_
    to break down that primitive monolith - which I'm not sure you're aware of.

    *About Rapid Security Responses - only available in iOS 16 and up*
    <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>

    The RSR aside, the primitive release process only Apple employs is very
    likely the fundamental reason why iOS has not only the most zero-day holes
    (by far!) but also the most _exploited_ vulnerabilities (ten times more!).

    Due to the primitive update mechanism only Apple employs, zero-day bugs
    last far longer in Apple operating system than in Android for example.

    Windows employs the same update strategy. https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=windows+10

    You can't seriously claim, sans a shred of evidence, that Windows is a
    monolith like iOS is a monolith since Microsoft does NOT update
    Windows as the primitive stone-age monolithic package that Apple uses.

    How do most Windows users get their updated drivers, for example?
    *You do know they don't generally come from Microsoft, right?*

    Where do you think the iOS drivers come from?

    Quite different from Apple's monolithic update mechanism, Android has
    Project Treble with Qualcomm where the drivers are asynchronously
    updated irrespective of the carrier and the Android release process. <https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2020/12/qualcomm-and-google-announce-collaboration-extend-android-os-support-and>

    Likewise, are you aware how major applications on Windows and Android
    update? Again, nothing like that of the primitive monolithic method Apple
    uses.

    You can't be oblivious that with Apple - it's everything - or nothing.
    With every other operating system - the updates are in many layers.

    With iOS, you instantly lose full support the moment a next release ships!
    *Distinguishing software updates from upgrades*
    <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>

    It's fine that Apple uses a stone-age primitive update mechanism - which is Apple's prerogative - but it's the main reason iOS has the most zero day
    holes and even more importantly the most exploited zero-day holes.

    By far.

    And the iOS security sandbox model makes it so a compromised app will not be able to screw up the entire rest of your system, like it is so in Android.

    WTF? You've never heard of the many zero-click zero-day exploits of iOS?
    Are you serious?

    Again, we have to get to common ground which is you can't discount that
    on average, iOS has had one a month (sometimes two or three!) for years!

    *You can't just ignore that iOS has been extremely insecure* (for years!)

    Look it up before you respond please as the major problem outlined here is
    that the primitive stone-age update mechanism that only Apple employs is
    the main reason iOS not only has the most zero day holes (by far), very
    many of which are also zero-click vulnerabilities... but this primitive
    update mechanism is also why iOS has very many times the zero-click
    _exploits_ that are already abused by malevolent actors in the wild.
    --
    My role is the truth about Apple products and to expose the iKooks too.

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  • From Dorper@21:1/5 to Wally J on Thu Sep 28 23:25:03 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.advocacy

    On Sep 28, 2023, Wally J wrote
    (in article <uf5nh5$4io8$1@dont-email.me>):

    Dorper <usenet@dorper.me> wrote

    According to the gov, there is no smartphone OS more exploited than is iOS.
    <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

    CISA NVD is a mirror of The MITRE Corporation's CVE system, which is flawed.
    And you don't understand how different operating systems are packaged.

    It's good that you're thinking - which means there's a possibility of learning but first we have to equilibrate our knowledge to a common ground.

    You can't seriously claim, sans a single slice of evidence, that I don't understand that iOS is packaged as a monolith (yes, a delta is applied to each & every user but the release is built and tested as a monolith).

    To be clear, you may not even be aware that only in iOS 16 did iOS _begin_
    to break down that primitive monolith - which I'm not sure you're aware of.

    *About Rapid Security Responses - only available in iOS 16 and up* <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>
    They changed the update system. What is your problem then?
    The RSR aside, the primitive release process only Apple employs is very likely the fundamental reason why iOS has not only the most zero-day holes (by far!) but also the most _exploited_ vulnerabilities (ten times more!).

    Dude, look at the NVD you keep bringing up. I don't know where you are
    getting this 10x number. Just look at the numbers in NVD, AOSP has around 300 more vulns from the last 10 years than iOS.

    *You do know they don't generally come from Microsoft, right?*

    They do. Windows drivers are distributed by Microsoft through Windows Update. In fact, Microsoft compiles all 3rd party drivers themselves as part ofWHQL. They may be written by the vendor but Microsoft takes care of compilation, signing, and distribution.

    I am looking at the Mac App Store right now and seeing how updates are delivered. It's not monolithic. Safari, iTunes, SDC, Digital Camera RAW,
    Device Support, iTunes Device Support, Security Update are all separate updates. Of course there isn't a large variation of software for the macOS so Apple doesn't have to distribute drivers and those are typically installed
    and updated how you THINK drivers are installed in Windows, through random
    3rd party tools. Suboptimal but whatever, only had to do it for a Wacom
    tablet.

    WTF? You've never heard of the many zero-click zero-day exploits of iOS?> Are you serious?

    Enlighten me.

    Again, we have to get to common ground which is you can't discount that>on average, iOS has had one a month (sometimes two or three!) for years!

    Scare mongering from the "security" industry as usual. No this isn't a cope,
    I just think that those people are very dishonest. If I have to hear one more of them say that "Management Engine is malware" despite OOBM being a feature
    of many enterprise designs for years and nobody batted an eye...

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  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to Dorper on Fri Sep 29 16:18:58 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    On 2023-09-29, Dorper <usenet@dorper.me> wrote:

    Of course there isn't a large variation of software for the macOS so
    Apple doesn't have to distribute drivers and those are typically
    installed and updated how you THINK drivers are installed in Windows,
    through random 3rd party tools. Suboptimal but whatever, only had to
    do it for a Wacom tablet.

    Apple actually does distribute and bundle quite a few drivers with
    macOS. Having to go out and get your own is a relative rarity.

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

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  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to Jolly Roger on Fri Sep 29 12:52:03 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    On 2023-09-29 12:18, Jolly Roger wrote:
    On 2023-09-29, Dorper <usenet@dorper.me> wrote:

    Of course there isn't a large variation of software for the macOS so
    Apple doesn't have to distribute drivers and those are typically
    installed and updated how you THINK drivers are installed in Windows,
    through random 3rd party tools. Suboptimal but whatever, only had to
    do it for a Wacom tablet.

    Apple actually does distribute and bundle quite a few drivers with
    macOS. Having to go out and get your own is a relative rarity.

    Recently tried a USB WiFi widget (as the WiFi on this iMac is dead), and
    it needed not only a driver but, GASP! A dreaded reboot.

    Worked fine. Unfortunately the little WiFi widget didn't work for
    AirDrop so sent it back. It also came with a driver removal tool.

    Other than that it's probably been 5+ years since I had to install a driver.

    --
    “Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
    - John Maynard Keynes.

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  • From Wally J@21:1/5 to Frank Slootweg on Fri Sep 29 13:56:24 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

    It's a Samsung Galaxy S10+.

    Thanks for the confirmation. BTW, mine is a Samsung Galaxy A51, a
    little over 3 years old, came with Android 10, now on 13.

    So the strange things are that 1) we (YTIW! :-)) didn't get notified
    that there was a 'Google Play system update', 2) my phone didn't
    download it and 3) your phone downloaded it, but didn't tell you to
    restart.

    For that last issue, I believe there is a switch for that, as I've
    seen it in passing in the past - but I'll have to look for it Frank.

    Meanwhile, as with Frank's Samsung Galaxy A51 and AJL's S10+, my
    free T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy A32-5G also updates all the time, where it
    started life as Android 11, then 12 and now Android 13 over the years.
    <https://i.postimg.cc/X7n5YVVs/galaxy-update-upgrade.jpg>

    But the Android version is just a number - it's only one of many layers
    of how Android updates most of its components essentially forever [1].
    1. User apps are often updated forever (and very many are open source);
    2. Key apps like Chrome are updated forever (many are open source);
    3. Firmware (such as the Qualcomm modem firmware) are updated by Qualcomm;
    4. Security updates (these are sometimes monthly or quarterly for years);
    5. Android versions (these are change Android 11, say, to Android 12);
    6. Core modules (updated either over GPS on the net or OTA by partners);
    7. In addition, all core modules are donated to AOSP to maintain forever.

    As Frank is realizing, Android updates in a series of asynchronous layers.
    a. Some of those updates (as Frank noted today) occur during a reboot.
    b. Others seem to occur seamlessly (without the user even noticing).
    c. Most seem to have a switch to determine how they update though.

    Hence it's wonderful that Frank is coming to the realization that Android updates in layers, which we've discussed many times on this newsgroup.

    In fact, I think my phone has been updated too frequently lately.
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/nJ1tR7mMlI4/m/7MqhKYeKBwAJ>

    Such that I've even turned _off_ some of the many Android update layers.
    *Quick: Can I stop, prevent or stave off the upcoming December update?*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/udGDxJVcvxo>

    Still, unlike the primitive iOS monolith, there are so many Android update layers that it's hard to control (or even notice) the many Android updates.

    One place to look though, but it's only one place so keep that in mind, is
    Settings > About phone > Software information >
    <https://i.postimg.cc/4ymqRF7n/updateallapps11.jpg>

    Notice there are additional Android sub components listed there.
    1. Android version
    2. Google Play system update
    3. Baseband version
    4. Kernel version
    5. Build number
    6. SE for Android status
    7. Knox version
    8. Service provider software version
    9. Carrier configuration version
    10. Security software version
    11. Android security patch level

    However, I think, perhaps, the most important might be these though:
    *Android version*
    *Google Play system update*
    *Android security patch level*

    In summary, it's great that Frank is attempting in this thread to figure
    out the frequency of the update to the 34 core packages in Android 13.
    --
    [1] Forever in this context means nobody can find any EOL date
    (even if there were an EOL date, they're all donated to AOSP).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Wally J@21:1/5 to Frank Slootweg on Fri Sep 29 13:37:00 2023
    XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote

    So I now indeed have a 'Google Play system update' from *Google*,
    which is *newer* (August 1, 2023) than my 'Software update' from
    *Samsung* (June 1, 2023).

    We've been discussing these Android asynchronous updates for years, Frank.
    *Android endlessly updates directly from Google Play Services (bypassing carriers & OEMs)*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/1lSF1ZPdpZs/m/9FF0PCIHAgAJ>

    In fact, you're bringing up the _same_ methods we've already covered.
    *Big March Android System Update Through Google Play & Google Play Services*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/fIAd_j1gC0w/>

    Still... your quest is valid - which is to figure out the update frequency.
    *Which is a good thing.*
    Knowledge is valuable.

    It's great that Frank just tested his own Samsung to agree that
    (unlike iOS) Android updates in asynchronous layers (some of which
    are performed over the Internet) which are completely independent
    of the carrier & OEM (unlike iOS which uses a primitive update model).

    In the past, for example, we tried to figure out the update EOL.
    *Starting with Android 10, 11 or 12, what part of Android is NOT updated forever?*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Tp_BYlwPFX8/m/L4no3D0HAgAJ>

    But we were stymied by the lack of concrete information from Google.
    *How long does GOOGLE say they'll update the two dozen core modules in project mainline?*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/_ZUiLVtLbsg/>

    Hence I agree with your empirical method of finding out the answer.
    It's useful to know how frequently Project Mainline updates Androids.

    *Help me understand Google's Project Treble & Project Mainline please*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/e3VoHKwm-dY/>

    The fact is that Android is updated in layers, with "Project Mainline"
    (since renamed) starting in Android 10 being just one of those key layers.

    Other layers are the key "Google apps" which is also part of stock Android.
    *Google Play update all apps*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/48Qs2nHV5Io/>

    But this thread is only about the one layer called "Project Mainline".
    And it's about the update frequency of that one layer, right Frank?

    Currently there are 34 core modules (aka Android system packages) in
    "Project Mainline" (see also "Project Treble" for the hardware drivers)
    which are updated over the net asynchronously from the OEM or the carrier.

    Please see also the following threads containing useful information.

    *Project Mainline updates all Android phones - no matter who makes it*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/fSUeOc4jBxQ/>

    *Why I believe the Android version doesn't matter as much anymore*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/gzG52aKOloA/>

    *The longest hardware & software & warranty support in the industry*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/tFVO52Oc5kM/>

    *All common consumer operating systems update in asynchronous layers*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/pmthHKhYSIg/>

    *Why is Windows & Android & Linux supported far longer than Apple releases are?*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/I_kbln7ETpE/>

    *What is the most important update difference between iOS & Android?*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/nH3w_-S606s/>

    *What is the SIZE difference between iOS & Android updates?*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/fpIACZI6RCc/>
    --
    Frank's quest to figure out the Project Mainline update frequency
    is a valid quest which I will watch to learn whatever Frank can find
    as I learn from every single thread and post to this newsgroup too.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)