Buyers were avoiding the Intel-modem version (being
distributed by AT&T and T-Mobile)
no they weren't.
and buying the Qualcomm modem version
(being sold unlocked from Apple)
all models are sold unlocked from apple unless financed with a carrier.
While Apple throttled the Qualcomm modem models so they would be almost
as slow as the Intel modem models
the intel modems were not slow. full stop.
while it's true that they were slightly slow-*er* than qualcomm, they
were still well above any speed anyone would ever hope to reach.
normal people who use their phones out in the real world didn't notice
nor care.
In the resale market, iPhones (7, 8, X, Xr, & Xs) with the Intel modem
fetched lower prices than ones with the Qualcomm modem.
no they very definitely didn't.
Given the network speed is a critical component of a smartphone
Apple spends more on R&D than all but a handful of companies.
Given the network speed is a critical component of a smartphone
it isn't.
few people come anywhere close to saturating lte, let alone 5g.
nospam wrote:
Given the network speed is a critical component of a smartphone
it isn't.
few people come anywhere close to saturating lte, let alone 5g.
Only a fool spend upwards of a thousand bucks for a phone to have it suck
at networking nospam.
By 2030 when the patents expire, Apple will be a decade behind in modem design.
If Apple spent just some of their astronomical marketing budget in actual R&D, maybe Apple would be able to do something as simple as _integrate_ an _existing_ modem, nospam (which is something many others have done
already).
On 2 Jul 2022 at 9:24:14 PM, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple spends more on R&D than all but a handful of companies.
Your own link showed Samsung spends 50% more in total R&D than Apple. https://spendmenot.com/blog/top-rd-spenders/
Apple's smartphone revenue was 272% of Samsung's smartphone revenue in 2021 but Samsung outspent Apple by 150% in total R&D dollars. https://www.telecomlead.com/smart-phone/smartphone-revenue-of-apple-vs-samsung-103669
That means Samsung outspends Apple in R&D using every common metric you can think of, which is maybe why Samsung was the first to ship a 5G modem integrated into a smartphone and also it's probably why Samsung hardware is always better than Apple hardware on an equivalent cost comparison).
On 2 Jul 2022 at 9:24:14 PM, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple spends more on R&D than all but a handful of companies.
Your own link showed Samsung spends 50% more in total R&D than Apple.
Samsung makes THOUSANDS of products.
On 2 Jul 2022 at 10:08:03 PM, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.dontemailme.com> wrote:
Samsung makes THOUSANDS of products.
What similar smartphone manufacturer do you compare Apple with then?
Pick any one you want. It won't matter as Apple R&D spending is so low.
The result will be the same no matter which phone manufacturer you choose.
Cheers, Rob
nospam wrote:
Buyers were avoiding the Intel-modem version (being distributed by
AT&T and T-Mobile)
no they weren't.
Yes they were. The intelligent ones were anyway.
It was all in the news, nospam, which, of course, you're ignorant of.
...and Apple does so while only making a very small number of products.
On 3 Jul 2022 at 2:12:49 AM, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
...and Apple does so while only making a very small number of products.
I asked a question and you immediately ducked and dodged that question.
It won't matter as Apple R&D spending is so low.
Sorry, but you are utterly wrong.
Of all the companies ON THIS PLANET, Apple spends more on R&D than only about 5...
Samsung outspent Apple by 150% in 2021 R&D total dollars by your own
figures even given Apple's 2021 smartphone revenue is 272% of Samsung's.
You don't like a comparison to Samsung as a smartphone manufacturer.
Fine. Pick another smartphone manufacturer and stop dodging the question.
This is the last time I will ask you to back up your words.
Put up or shut up.
What smartphone manufacturer do you want to compare Apple's R&D spend to?
So I'll pick:
Nokia
Sony
LG
HTC
Motorola
On 3 Jul 2022 at 10:44:13 AM, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You don't like a comparison to Samsung as a smartphone manufacturer.
Fine. Pick another smartphone manufacturer and stop dodging the question.
This is the last time I will ask you to back up your words.
Put up or shut up.
What smartphone manufacturer do you want to compare Apple's R&D spend to?
So I'll pick:
Nokia
Sony
LG
HTC
Motorola
Nokia? Sony? LG? HTC? Motorola?
Are you joking? Or just stupid?
R&D is a main expense which is always reported as a percentage of revenue. https://einvestingforbeginners.com/rd-spending-as-a-percentage-of-revenue-by-industry/
Nokia is a bottom end budget smartphone manufacturer so the best you can do is compare Apple's R&D spend to that of low end phones that don't even need R&D? Even so, Nokia's R&D spend is still FOUR TIMES that of Apple's! https://www.mobileworldlive.com/blog/apple-and-nokia-a-tale-of-two-contrasting-companies/
You already claimed Samsung makes a lot of devices and then the best you
can come up with is Sony who makes more electronics than Samsung does? Even so, Sony's R&D spend IS MORE THAN TWICE THAT of Apple's! https://gizmodo.com/research-and-development-apple-vs-microsoft-vs-sony-5486798
LG doesn't even make smartphones, so the best you can do is compare Apple's extremely low R&D spend to LG who /failed/ at making a competitive smartphone? Even so, LG's R&D expenditure is huge compared to Apple's very low R&D percentage.
https://ycharts.com/companies/LPL/r_and_d_expense
HTC hasn't made much by way of phones in recently years. Even so, HG also DOUBLES Apple in terms of R&D expenditures as a percentage of revenue. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/motorolas-earnings-problem-its-rd-um-sucks/
Motorola is hemorrhaging money but even so it's R&D spend is 47% of gross profits, again vastly outweighting that of Apple by any common metric. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/managing-rd-spend-important-motorolas-stock-2010-09-14
It's hard to tell if you're joking or just stupid when EVERY company you listed greatly outspends Apple in R&D expenses measured the way the
industry measures it.
On 3 Jul 2022 at 4:40:55 AM, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
'If you were to break down the amount of R&D that goes purely to
physical (non-software) products sold by Apple and Sony
Sony is a different kind of company than is Apple as Sony has a lot of products while Apple has very few products (which the article said).
Even so, EVERY smartphone manufacturer you listed outspent Apple's R&D by
two to four to eight to even ten times what Apple spends in R&D by the correct and proper metric always commonly used in the industry.
For you to claim that's NOT the common metric just means you're stupid.
'If you were to break down the amount of R&D that goes purely to
physical (non-software) products sold by Apple and Sony
On 3 Jul 2022 at 10:44:13 AM, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
So I'll pick:
Nokia
Sony
LG
HTC
Motorola
Nokia? Sony? LG? HTC? Motorola?
Are you joking? Or just stupid?
R&D is a main expense which is always reported as a percentage of revenue. https://einvestingforbeginners.com/rd-spending-as-a-percentage-of-revenue-by-industry/
Nokia is a bottom end budget smartphone manufacturer so the best you can do is compare Apple's R&D spend to that of low end phones that don't even need R&D? Even so, Nokia's R&D spend is still FOUR TIMES that of Apple's! https://www.mobileworldlive.com/blog/apple-and-nokia-a-tale-of-two-contrasting-companies/
You already claimed Samsung makes a lot of devices and then the best you
can come up with is Sony who makes more electronics than Samsung does? Even so, Sony's R&D spend IS MORE THAN TWICE THAT of Apple's! https://gizmodo.com/research-and-development-apple-vs-microsoft-vs-sony-5486798
On 2 Jul 2022 at 10:08:03 PM, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.dontemailme.com> wrote:
Samsung makes THOUSANDS of products.
What similar smartphone manufacturer do you compare Apple with then?
Pick any one you want. It won't matter as Apple R&D spending is so low.
The result will be the same no matter which phone manufacturer you choose.
Samsung makes THOUSANDS of products.
What similar smartphone manufacturer do you compare Apple with then?
Why would I compare Apple to another company? There are no companies like Apple. Apple makes far fewer products than any company 1/100th its size.
It is very focused on making the things that it does make as good as
they can.
Pick any one you want. It won't matter as Apple R&D spending is so low.
Bullshit. They spend about $15 billion on R&D per year.
The result will be the same no matter which phone manufacturer you choose.
Why do you care?
It's a stupid thing to care about.
Sony is a different kind of company than is Apple as Sony has a lot of
products while Apple has very few products (which the article said).
So suddenly the kind of company matters...
...and not just the percentage of revenue spent on R&D?
I'm confused by this change in the stance you've taken.
Even so, EVERY smartphone manufacturer you listed outspent Apple's R&D by
two to four to eight to even ten times what Apple spends in R&D by the
correct and proper metric always commonly used in the industry.
Suddenly the metric is back to percentage of revenue.
On 3 Jul 2022 at 10:35:20 AM, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.dontemailme.com> wrote:
Samsung makes THOUSANDS of products.
What similar smartphone manufacturer do you compare Apple with then?
Why would I compare Apple to another company? There are no companies like
Apple. Apple makes far fewer products than any company 1/100th its size.
It is very focused on making the things that it does make as good as
they can.
You bring up a very important truth about Apple.
Apple doesn't make all that much by way of product.
Pick any one you want. It won't matter as Apple R&D spending is so low.
Bullshit. They spend about $15 billion on R&D per year.
Apple's R&D expenses have always been the lowest in the tech industry.
That tells you why "Apple failed at internal development of a 5G modem."
The result will be the same no matter which phone manufacturer you choose. >>Why do you care?
R&D is a VERY IMPORTANT key metric to care about when evaluating Apple's innovation and ability to compete with other tech companies who have
outspent Apple in R&D over the past 20 years (like Qualcomm & Samsung).
It's a stupid thing to care about.
Apple's lack of R&D is the REASON Apple failed at 5G modem design and therefore Apple's low R&D is a VERY IMPORTANT thing to care about.
Had Apple NOT underspent Samsung & Qualcomm & Huaweii & MediaTek in R&D
every year for two decades, Apple might NOT have failed at 5G modems today.
Cheers, Rob
On 3 Jul 2022 at 1:10:27 PM, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Sony is a different kind of company than is Apple as Sony has a lot of
products while Apple has very few products (which the article said).
So suddenly the kind of company matters...
Are you an idiot?
YOU are the one who complained about the kind of company.
...and not just the percentage of revenue spent on R&D?
Are you stupid?
You are the one who changed the metric.
The metrics that matter when comparing companies within an industry where each is of a different size is the R&D percentage of revenue.
I'm confused by this change in the stance you've taken.
I was responding to YOUR "changes in stance", you idiot.
R&D is a main expense which is customarily reported as a percentage. https://einvestingforbeginners.com/rd-spending-as-a-percentage-of-revenue-by-industry/
Even so, EVERY smartphone manufacturer you listed outspent Apple's R&D by >>> two to four to eight to even ten times what Apple spends in R&D by the
correct and proper metric always commonly used in the industry.
Suddenly the metric is back to percentage of revenue.
That's it.
YOU changed the metric not me.
YOU complained about the breadth of products, not me.
YOUR are the one who is confused, not me.
We're done.
Apple R&D is outspent by just about everybody in the same industry using
the customary financial metric - which is percentage of product revenue.
In message <t9qors$1j84$1@gioia.aioe.org> RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 2 Jul 2022 at 10:08:03 PM, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.dontemailme.com> wrote: >>>
Samsung makes THOUSANDS of products.
What similar smartphone manufacturer do you compare Apple with then?
Why would I compare Apple to another company? There are no companies like Apple. Apple makes far fewer products than any company 1/100th its size.
It is very focused on making the things that it does make as good as
they can.
Pick any one you want. It won't matter as Apple R&D spending is so low.
Bullshit. They spend about $15 billion on R&D per year.
The result will be the same no matter which phone manufacturer you choose.
Why do you care? It's a stupid thing to care about.
On 3 Jul 2022 at 10:35:20 AM, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.dontemailme.com> wrote:
Samsung makes THOUSANDS of products.
What similar smartphone manufacturer do you compare Apple with then?
Why would I compare Apple to another company? There are no companies like
Apple. Apple makes far fewer products than any company 1/100th its size.
It is very focused on making the things that it does make as good as
they can.
You bring up a very important truth about Apple.
Apple doesn't make all that much by way of product.
Pick any one you want. It won't matter as Apple R&D spending is so low.
Bullshit. They spend about $15 billion on R&D per year.
Apple's R&D expenses have always been the lowest in the tech industry.
That tells you why "Apple failed at internal development of a 5G modem."
The result will be the same no matter which phone manufacturer you choose. >>Why do you care?
R&D is a VERY IMPORTANT key metric to care about when evaluating Apple's innovation and ability to compete with other tech companies
It's a stupid thing to care about.
Apple's lack of R&D is the REASON Apple failed at 5G modem design
Samsung's R&D must be a lot lower since all they do is copy what Apple
does. Same with Microsoft, but they manage to make it worse. ;-)
On 3 Jul 2022 at 5:09:17 PM, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
Samsung's R&D must be a lot lower since all they do is copy what Apple
does. Same with Microsoft, but they manage to make it worse. ;-)
You can pick on Samsung but EVERY company in tech has higher R&D than Apple in terms of the key financial metric that is quoted on the main financial summary reports.
The percentage of revenue for Samsung R&D (which is the metric that counts
in financial reports) is way higher than Apple, but that's not saying much because Apple spends less in R&D than every other tech company in terms of that percentage metric.
But Samsung also outspends Apple in real R&D dollars by one & a half more!
Don't you think it revealing that Samsung spends far more than Apple in R&D by ANY financial metric you can find when Samsung is much smaller than
Apple in smartphone revenue?
You can pick on Samsung but EVERY company in tech has higher R&D than Apple >> in terms of the key financial metric that is quoted on the main financial
summary reports.
Because something is easy doesn't make it a useful metric.
On 7/3/2022 10:17 PM, Alan wrote:
You can pick on Samsung but EVERY company in tech has higher R&D than
Apple
in terms of the key financial metric that is quoted on the main
financial
summary reports.
Because something is easy doesn't make it a useful metric.
I think what you're trying to say over and over and over is that it bothers you a real lot that Apple doesn't spend all that much in R&D for its size.
At the same time you invested a lot of energy telling us how much it
bothers you that Apple doesn't invest in R&D you then invested even more
time looking up a lot of other technology companies who spend far more than Apple by size and you don't like it that they DO invest a lot in R&D.
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