Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients. <https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Why?
Because you aren't sending them through a messaging service that
supports high-quality videos. And you claim to know more about iOS than anyone else here? You apparently can barely use basic messaging
services.
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Jolly Roger wrote on 16 May 2024 23:00:03 GMT :
Why?
Because you aren't sending them through a messaging service that
supports high-quality videos. And you claim to know more about iOS than
anyone else here? You apparently can barely use basic messaging
services.
I'm not sending any videos, Jolly Roger.
The iPhone user is sending the videos.
I'm simply a recipient - some of whom are on iOS & others on Android.
The question is a simple one.
On May 16, 2024 at 6:12:25 PM EDT, "Andrew" <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone
users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Because SMS/MMS is used between Android and iOS. They have incompatible messaging systems, so they fall back to the Lowest Common Denominator. The quality drops in both directions.
However, if everyone uses WhatsApp or Facebook messenger (or others) then videos will be sent in full quality. That's one of the (many) reasons these cross-platform messaging apps exist.
On 2024-05-17, Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
On May 16, 2024 at 6:12:25 PM EDT, "Andrew" <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone >>> users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Because SMS/MMS is used between Android and iOS. They have incompatible
messaging systems, so they fall back to the Lowest Common Denominator. The >> quality drops in both directions.
However, if everyone uses WhatsApp or Facebook messenger (or others) then
videos will be sent in full quality. That's one of the (many) reasons these >> cross-platform messaging apps exist.
Arlen should know this. In fact he does know this. He's pretending to be
dumb in order to troll. And it's a really, really weak troll.
Thanks for explaining it. I haven't received videos until a great
grandchild was born, as it has been a while since the last baby.
This family is all on iPhones & iPads so everything comes from their messaging app. The pictures come in fine.
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone
users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Because SMS/MMS is used between Android and iOS. They have incompatible messaging systems, so they fall back to the Lowest Common Denominator. The quality drops in both directions.
However, if everyone uses WhatsApp or Facebook messenger (or others) then videos will be sent in full quality. That's one of the (many) reasons these cross-platform messaging apps exist.
Tyrone wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 00:48:21 +0000 :
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the
iPhone users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up
clear for their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android
recipients. <https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Because SMS/MMS is used between Android and iOS. They have
incompatible messaging systems, so they fall back to the Lowest
Common Denominator. The quality drops in both directions.
However, if everyone uses WhatsApp or Facebook messenger (or others)
then videos will be sent in full quality. That's one of the (many)
reasons these cross-platform messaging apps exist.
This family is all on iPhones & iPads so everything comes from their messaging app.
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
On 2024-05-17 00:12, Andrew wrote:
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone
users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Probably because you are using MMS and not RCS, so there is a size limitation, or IOS is doing a conversion at their side (imessages to mms)
Convince your family to switch to WhatsApp, or Telegram, or Signal, or Threema...
If they refuse, then tell them to resend those videos over mail. O use
some sharing site on the cloud.
Or convince them to switch to Android :-D
Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone
users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
I'm sure the iPhone users don't send the video "through their text mechanism", but through their *messaging* app, probably called
'Messages', and using the iMessage messaging platform.
Your screenshot mentions MMS, so on the Android side the video is
received as a MMS message, hence the appalling 'quality'.
You get a MMS message, because Apple hasn't implemented iMessage on Android, so seeing a non-iMessage recipient, Apple's Messages/iMessage
has no other choice then to convert the video to a crappy MMS message.
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone
users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Because SMS/MMS is used between Android and iOS. They have incompatible messaging systems, so they fall back to the Lowest Common Denominator. The quality drops in both directions.
However, if everyone uses WhatsApp or Facebook messenger (or others) then videos will be sent in full quality. That's one of the (many) reasons these cross-platform messaging apps exist.
Tyrone wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 00:48:21 +0000 :
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone >>> users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Because SMS/MMS is used between Android and iOS. They have incompatible
messaging systems, so they fall back to the Lowest Common Denominator. The >> quality drops in both directions.
However, if everyone uses WhatsApp or Facebook messenger (or others) then
videos will be sent in full quality. That's one of the (many) reasons these >> cross-platform messaging apps exist.
Thanks for helping out, as I'm trying to understand the process.
1. iPhone logs into their iMessaging Apple server (automatically)
2. iPhone sends a short video clip to multiple recipients using Messages
3. Presumably that clip _first_ goes to an Apple iMessaging server?????
(is that correct?) (or does the iPhone do the splitting?)
That's the first point of confusion that I'd like to iron out.
Assuming one sender on iOS using the default Messages app sending a short video clip to two recipients, one on iOS and the other on Android, does the video sent by Messages still go _first_ to the Apple iMessaging servers?
Where exactly do the clips get split into different outgoing mechanisms?
Tyrone wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 00:48:21 +0000 :
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone >>> users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Because SMS/MMS is used between Android and iOS. They have incompatible
messaging systems, so they fall back to the Lowest Common Denominator. The >> quality drops in both directions.
However, if everyone uses WhatsApp or Facebook messenger (or others) then
videos will be sent in full quality. That's one of the (many) reasons these >> cross-platform messaging apps exist.
Thanks for helping out, as I'm trying to understand the process.
1. iPhone logs into their iMessaging Apple server (automatically)
2. iPhone sends a short video clip to multiple recipients using Messages
3. Presumably that clip _first_ goes to an Apple iMessaging server?????
(is that correct?) (or does the iPhone do the splitting?)
That's the first point of confusion that I'd like to iron out.
Assuming one sender on iOS using the default Messages app sending a short video clip to two recipients, one on iOS and the other on Android, does the video sent by Messages still go _first_ to the Apple iMessaging servers?
Where exactly do the clips get split into different outgoing mechanisms?
Tyrone wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 00:48:21 +0000 :
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the
iPhone users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up
clear for their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android
recipients. <https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Because SMS/MMS is used between Android and iOS. They have
incompatible messaging systems, so they fall back to the Lowest
Common Denominator. The quality drops in both directions.
However, if everyone uses WhatsApp or Facebook messenger (or others)
then videos will be sent in full quality. That's one of the (many)
reasons these cross-platform messaging apps exist.
Thanks for helping out, as I'm trying to understand the process. 1.
iPhone logs into their iMessaging Apple server (automatically)
2. iPhone sends a short video clip to multiple recipients using
Messages
3. Presumably that clip _first_ goes to an Apple iMessaging
server????? (is that correct?) (or does the iPhone do the splitting?)
That's the first point of confusion that I'd like to iron out.
Assuming one sender on iOS using the default Messages app sending a
short video clip to two recipients, one on iOS and the other on
Android, does the video sent by Messages still go _first_ to the Apple iMessaging servers?
Where exactly do the clips get split into different outgoing
mechanisms?
It's just the short (ten to fifteen seconds long) videos that are blurry.
Does that make sense from your experience that JPGs are fine but not video?
Yes. For SMS/MMS, pictures don't need to be compressed (unless its a VERY large, VERY high-res pic). But even a few seconds of video will be compressed.
It sucks, and the only solution is for everyone to be on the same app. Either all on iPhones (using Messages) or all on Android (using the same messaging app) OR using a cross-platform app as noted above.
Tyrone wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 00:48:21 +0000 :
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone >>> users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Because SMS/MMS is used between Android and iOS. They have incompatible
messaging systems, so they fall back to the Lowest Common Denominator. The >> quality drops in both directions.
However, if everyone uses WhatsApp or Facebook messenger (or others) then
videos will be sent in full quality. That's one of the (many) reasons these >> cross-platform messaging apps exist.
Thanks for explaining it. I haven't received videos until a great
grandchild was born, as it has been a while since the last baby.
This family is all on iPhones & iPads so everything comes from their messaging app. The pictures come in fine.
It's just the short (ten to fifteen seconds long) videos that are blurry. Does that make sense from your experience that JPGs are fine but not video?
Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 14:15:01 GMT :
Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone >>> users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
I'm sure the iPhone users don't send the video "through their text
mechanism", but through their *messaging* app, probably called
'Messages', and using the iMessage messaging platform.
Your screenshot mentions MMS, so on the Android side the video is
received as a MMS message, hence the appalling 'quality'.
You get a MMS message, because Apple hasn't implemented iMessage on
Android, so seeing a non-iMessage recipient, Apple's Messages/iMessage
has no other choice then to convert the video to a crappy MMS message.
Thanks to Tyrone, Carlos & Frank (and even to Jolly Roger) for explaining
why the new baby videos from this particular grandchild are so blurry.
I bought my grandaughter her iPhone as I give phones as gifts (and I even have an old iPhone that I'm going to gift to my great grandchild when he's old enough to use a phone since the family is all Apple, 100%).
As you noted, they're using their default messaging app just as I'm using
my default messaging app, and I appreciate that you used the proper wording since the app is called "Messages" but the system is referred to as "iMessage" and that you explained to my satisfaction what probably is happening (which I would agree with).
I wasn't aware "where" the conversion of the video to "crappy" happened though, because the Apple recipients don't see the short video as crappy.
Just the Android recipients.
So thanks for letting me know the conversion probably happens at the Apple iMessaging server for the senders' Messages app login into Apple servers.
Much appreciated.
Thanks for helping out, as I'm trying to understand the process. 1.
iPhone logs into their iMessaging Apple server (automatically)
Wrong. iMessage is optional and opt-in.
2. iPhone sends a short video clip to multiple recipients using
Messages
The user could choose to send the video on another messaging app/service
if they wish.
3. Presumably that clip _first_ goes to an Apple iMessaging
server????? (is that correct?) (or does the iPhone do the splitting?)
Wrong again. The video is sent as an MMS message which goes through the cellular carriers MMS service. Cellular carriers are notorious for
degrading MMS video quality to reduce data usage on their networks.
That's the first point of confusion that I'd like to iron out.
The fact that you are this clueless about basic messaging says all we
need to know about your claim to know more about Apple than anyone else
here. I'd feel embarrassed for you, except you sling insults regularly
here so you deserve the ridicule you get.
Where exactly do the clips get split into different outgoing
mechanisms?
It's very simple: Messages sent to iMessage users are sent with
iMessage. Messages sent to non-iMessage users are sent as SMS/MMS.
You've been told this countless times, and you continue to play dumb in
order to troll. You're playing dumb to bait someone into saying
something you can use as some sort of lame "gotcha" to sling more
insults and weak trolls around, polluting the newsgroup with your
bullshit. You're not fooling anyone.
Tyrone wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 00:48:21 +0000 :
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the iPhone >>> users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up clear for
their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their Android recipients.
<https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Because SMS/MMS is used between Android and iOS. They have incompatible
messaging systems, so they fall back to the Lowest Common Denominator. The >> quality drops in both directions.
However, if everyone uses WhatsApp or Facebook messenger (or others) then
videos will be sent in full quality. That's one of the (many) reasons these >> cross-platform messaging apps exist.
Thanks for helping out, as I'm trying to understand the process.
1. iPhone logs into their iMessaging Apple server (automatically)
2. iPhone sends a short video clip to multiple recipients using Messages
3. Presumably that clip _first_ goes to an Apple iMessaging server?????
(is that correct?) (or does the iPhone do the splitting?)
That's the first point of confusion that I'd like to iron out.
Assuming one sender on iOS using the default Messages app sending a short video clip to two recipients, one on iOS and the other on Android, does the video sent by Messages still go _first_ to the Apple iMessaging servers?
Where exactly do the clips get split into different outgoing mechanisms?
Where exactly do the clips get split into different outgoing mechanisms?
Not really sure how it all works. Assuming a "group chat" of mixed Apple and Android phones (I have several of those) I would ASSUME that it first goes to Apple servers. But not necessarily. There are settings on iPhones to use SMS/MMS "When iMessage is unavailable" but that could mean "When iMessage is down".
The bottom line is you need the same app on both ends.
video from any phone with WhatsApp to any phone without WhatsApp (is that even
possible?) then it would probably also be bad quality. Proprietary formats/protocols and such are likely involved.
You're both wrong. There is no "conversion", and MMS messages aren't
sent through the iMessage service. It's amazing this has to be explained
like you're a five year old, but so be it: The iPhone is a cellular device as well as an internet device. As such, it has the capability to check with Apple's iMessage service to see if a recipient is a user that is logged
into the iMessage service. If so, the message is sent through iMessage.
If not, the message is sent through the cellular service as an SMS/MMS. Cellular providers require MMS messages to be reduced in quality as a
way to reduce cellular data use, which is why videos are degraded when
sent over the cellular service. That's it - no "conversion" takes place,
and the iMessage service is not involved in cellular messaging.
The two questions which need to be known to begin to understand the process well enough to solve it are those which trace the path of the video clip.
1. Is the video split up on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier servers?
2. Is the video downsized on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier servers?
Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 18:16:16 GMT :
The two questions which need to be known to begin to understand the process
well enough to solve it are those which trace the path of the video clip.
You can't "solve" it, without the *sender* using a *different* method
to get the video to you, i.e. as has been mentioned, using some 'cloud'
or other file transfer service.
I'm not a bad problem solver, so I might find a workaround which doesn't require the IPhone sender to change their habits just for me to receive a decent video from them.
Lastly, when Apple figures out how to add RCS, that might also work then
to receive videos from iPhone users that are not crappy quality (but I
don't have much faith in that - yet - we'll have to just wait & see).
The two questions which need to be known to begin to understand the process >> well enough to solve it are those which trace the path of the video clip.
You can't "solve" it, without the *sender* using a *different* method
to get the video to you, i.e. as has been mentioned, using some 'cloud'
or other file transfer service.
1. Is the video split up on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier servers?
With "split up", you mean the communication path is split, the video
isn't split.
Answer: (As Carlos indicated,) On the iPhone. Your mobile number is in
the sender's (i.e. iPhone) contacts. The Messages app on the iPhone sees
it's a mobile phone number, so it decides to send a MMS message. As
Carlos mentioned, the decision must be taken on the iPhone, because the
cost of the MMS message (even if it comes out of a bundle) must be
charged to the iPhone user's mobile provider.
2. Is the video downsized on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier servers?
As we don't use MMS in the real world, I don't know where the
(resolution) shrinking of the video is done, but I assume it's done on
the iPhone. Doing it on other servers would mean a huge waste of -
possibly very costly - mobile data.
For comparison:
When we do stuff like this from WhatsApp-to-WhatsApp - never mind who
is on which OS platform - a full resolution video will be shrunk by
WhatsApp to a reasonable resolution and sent. (If we want to send the
full resolution video, at the possible expense of costly mobile data, we
can of course do so as well.)
For example the last video I got was 478x850 at 30FPS, which is of
course way less than the camera (I think a Pixel 7) can do. (The 25s
video was 5.75MB.)
I'm not sending any videos, Jolly Roger.
Who is doing the sending is irrelevant, and you know that.
The iPhone user is sending the videos.
I'm simply a recipient - some of whom are on iOS & others on Android.
The question is a simple one.
The question has been answered above.
I'm not a bad problem solver, so I might find a workaround which doesn't
require the IPhone sender to change their habits just for me to receive a
decent video from them.
I'm quite sure you can't "solve" the problem, because it requires the *sender*'s device (iPhone) to do things differently and that is beyond
*your* control (and BTW also beyond his).
But by all means, eat your heart out and experiment away.
Lastly, when Apple figures out how to add RCS, that might also work then
to receive videos from iPhone users that are not crappy quality (but I
don't have much faith in that - yet - we'll have to just wait & see).
As has been mentioned (by Carlos and me), RCS is a theoretical
solution, but whether or not Apple will add RCS functionality to iOS is beyond your control, so *you* won't be "solve"-ing anything.
Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 01:24:31 GMT :
I'm not sending any videos, Jolly Roger.
Who is doing the sending is irrelevant, and you know that.
We're talking only about iPhone users sending videos using their default messaging app in the USA which is messages, to send videos to a group comprising both Android & iOS users. Nobody is sending them from Android.
The iPhone user is sending the videos.
I'm simply a recipient - some of whom are on iOS & others on Android.
The question is a simple one.
The question has been answered above.
There are a few missing pieces, Jolly Roger, which I thank you for fleshing out some of them, but there are further questions such as how does the
iPhone know that a recipient is on Android when I can pop my SIM card into any iPhone where it will fit and then pop it back into Android at any time.
To test that, I'm resurrecting an iPHone and three iPads, one of which
Apple bricked because I didn't log into their servers, the other of which Apple bricked for the same reason but allowed me to set it up after I went
to the store to let them copy down my government ID (laying waste to
Apple's brazen marketing lies about privacy) and the third iPad is my
wife's but which has been collecting dust since she got an Android tablet.
Here's a photo of those four Apple devices so you know I tell the truth.
<https://i.postimg.cc/rwD6NrKX/ipadsandiphone.jpg>
Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 19:49:16 GMT :
I'm not a bad problem solver, so I might find a workaround which doesn't >>> require the IPhone sender to change their habits just for me to receive a >>> decent video from them.
I'm quite sure you can't "solve" the problem, because it requires the
*sender*'s device (iPhone) to do things differently and that is beyond
*your* control (and BTW also beyond his).
But by all means, eat your heart out and experiment away.
Thanks for your advice, where solving and working around issues are two different things, where I agree I can't solve the problem - but I am damn good at finding workarounds to every problem that I care to address.
But I need to understand better how the iPhone sends video first.
I worked in the Silicon Valley on industrial software considered munitions, so I'm not bad at workarounds - although I had a lot of training for that.
With Apple products, I don't have any formal training on how they work,
so all that I know about them is what I experience myself dealing with
them. https://i.postimg.cc/rwD6NrKX/ipadsandiphone.jpg
However, I think I have a workaround to the problem given out of those four Apple iOS devices, one of them might be repurposed as a video receiver.
1. The iPhone is registered to another AppleID which I need to remove
(but only after I take all the data off that iPhone first).
2. The "Activation Required!" iPad at left was bricked by Apple because
I ran an experiment by not logging into Apple servers for two years.
Since it was a gift, I can't prove it's mine so Apple declined to
allow me to activate it - again giving proof to Apples lies about
privacy since I had to show my government ID to the Genius Bar worker
before they would even look at it.
Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 01:24:31 GMT :Stop this incessant bullshit! Come to the little brown apple church in the vale.
I'm not sending any videos, Jolly Roger.
Who is doing the sending is irrelevant, and you know that.
We're talking only about iPhone users
Alan wrote:
On 2024-05-17 13:16, Andrew wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 19:49:16 GMT :
I'm not a bad problem solver, so I might find a workaround which
doesn't
require the IPhone sender to change their habits just for me to
receive a
decent video from them.
  I'm quite sure you can't "solve" the problem, because it requires >>>> the
*sender*'s device (iPhone) to do things differently and that is beyond >>>> *your* control (and BTW also beyond his).
  But by all means, eat your heart out and experiment away.
Thanks for your advice, where solving and working around issues are two
different things, where I agree I can't solve the problem - but I am
damn
good at finding workarounds to every problem that I care to address.
But I need to understand better how the iPhone sends video first.
I worked in the Silicon Valley on industrial software considered
munitions,
so I'm not bad at workarounds - although I had a lot of training for
that.
With Apple products, I don't have any formal training on how they work,
so all that I know about them is what I experience myself dealing with
them. https://i.postimg.cc/rwD6NrKX/ipadsandiphone.jpg
However, I think I have a workaround to the problem given out of
those four
Apple iOS devices, one of them might be repurposed as a video receiver.
1. The iPhone is registered to another AppleID which I need to remove
   (but only after I take all the data off that iPhone first).
2. The "Activation Required!" iPad at left was bricked by Apple because
   I ran an experiment by not logging into Apple servers for two years. >>>    Since it was a gift, I can't prove it's mine so Apple declined to >>>    allow me to activate it - again giving proof to Apples lies about >>>    privacy since I had to show my government ID to the Genius Bar
worker
   before they would even look at it.
Because they suspected you of having a stolen device, Arlen.
Why wasn't he arrested?
The sorry bastard should be in jail, right?
On 2024-05-17 12:54, Andrew wrote:
Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 01:24:31 GMT :
I'm not sending any videos, Jolly Roger.
Who is doing the sending is irrelevant, and you know that.
We're talking only about iPhone users sending videos using their default
messaging app in the USA which is messages, to send videos to a group
comprising both Android & iOS users. Nobody is sending them from Android.
And you desperately don't want to look at the question of whether or not an Android device can send an MMS message with video that is any better.
The iPhone user is sending the videos.
I'm simply a recipient - some of whom are on iOS & others on Android.
The question is a simple one.
The question has been answered above.
There are a few missing pieces, Jolly Roger, which I thank you for fleshing >> out some of them, but there are further questions such as how does the
iPhone know that a recipient is on Android when I can pop my SIM card into >> any iPhone where it will fit and then pop it back into Android at any time.
Messages app doesn't need to know if the recipient is on an Android device...
...it only needs to know that the phone number isn't associated with an iMessage account.
To test that, I'm resurrecting an iPHone and three iPads, one of which
Apple bricked because I didn't log into their servers, the other of which
Apple bricked for the same reason but allowed me to set it up after I went >> to the store to let them copy down my government ID (laying waste to
Apple's brazen marketing lies about privacy) and the third iPad is my
wife's but which has been collecting dust since she got an Android tablet.
You had to prove to the store's satisfaction that you were the owner of the device, doofus.
Here's a photo of those four Apple devices so you know I tell the truth.
<https://i.postimg.cc/rwD6NrKX/ipadsandiphone.jpg>
That doesn't prove you're telling the truth about anything you said in the preceding paragraph, Arlen.
On 2024-05-17 13:16, Andrew wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 19:49:16 GMT :
I'm not a bad problem solver, so I might find a workaround which doesn't >>>> require the IPhone sender to change their habits just for me to receive a >>>> decent video from them.
I'm quite sure you can't "solve" the problem, because it requires the >>> *sender*'s device (iPhone) to do things differently and that is beyond
*your* control (and BTW also beyond his).
But by all means, eat your heart out and experiment away.
Thanks for your advice, where solving and working around issues are two
different things, where I agree I can't solve the problem - but I am damn
good at finding workarounds to every problem that I care to address.
But I need to understand better how the iPhone sends video first.
I worked in the Silicon Valley on industrial software considered munitions, >> so I'm not bad at workarounds - although I had a lot of training for that. >>
With Apple products, I don't have any formal training on how they work,
so all that I know about them is what I experience myself dealing with
them. https://i.postimg.cc/rwD6NrKX/ipadsandiphone.jpg
However, I think I have a workaround to the problem given out of those four >> Apple iOS devices, one of them might be repurposed as a video receiver.
1. The iPhone is registered to another AppleID which I need to remove
(but only after I take all the data off that iPhone first).
2. The "Activation Required!" iPad at left was bricked by Apple because
I ran an experiment by not logging into Apple servers for two years.
Since it was a gift, I can't prove it's mine so Apple declined to
allow me to activate it - again giving proof to Apples lies about
privacy since I had to show my government ID to the Genius Bar worker
before they would even look at it.
Because they suspected you of having a stolen device, Arlen.
On May 17, 2024 at 9:15:35 AM EDT, "Andrew" <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
Tyrone wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 00:48:21 +0000 :
Half my family is on Android, the other half iOS, so whenever the
iPhone users send a video through their text mechanism, it shows up
clear for their iPhone recipients but super blurry for their
Android recipients. <https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
Why?
Because SMS/MMS is used between Android and iOS. They have
incompatible messaging systems, so they fall back to the Lowest
Common Denominator. The quality drops in both directions.
However, if everyone uses WhatsApp or Facebook messenger (or others)
then videos will be sent in full quality. That's one of the (many)
reasons these cross-platform messaging apps exist.
Thanks for explaining it. I haven't received videos until a great
grandchild was born, as it has been a while since the last baby.
This family is all on iPhones & iPads so everything comes from their
messaging app. The pictures come in fine.
It's just the short (ten to fifteen seconds long) videos that are
blurry. Does that make sense from your experience that JPGs are fine
but not video?
Yes. For SMS/MMS, pictures don't need to be compressed (unless its a
VERY large, VERY high-res pic). But even a few seconds of video will
be compressed.
It sucks, and the only solution is for everyone to be on the same app.
Either all on iPhones (using Messages) or all on Android (using the
same messaging app) OR using a cross-platform app as noted above.
Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 16:29:02 GMT :
Thanks for helping out, as I'm trying to understand the process. 1.
iPhone logs into their iMessaging Apple server (automatically)
Wrong. iMessage is optional and opt-in.
Please see this image
most US iPhone owners do log into the Apple iMessaging servers
Most likely the reason you are unaware that Apple nags you dozens of
times a day, every day, to log into their many tracking servers, is
you log in.
iOS is a dumb terminal
2. iPhone sends a short video clip to multiple recipients using
Messages
The user could choose to send the video on another messaging app/service
if they wish.
You do not understand
you have no clue what people do on their devices
3. Presumably that clip _first_ goes to an Apple iMessaging
server????? (is that correct?) (or does the iPhone do the splitting?)
Wrong again. The video is sent as an MMS message which goes through the
cellular carriers MMS service. Cellular carriers are notorious for
degrading MMS video quality to reduce data usage on their networks.
You do not show that you understand the process, Jolly Roger, as we all
know that it's _received_ as an MMS message on Android
but that's no longer the question that needs to be answered.
The question that needs to be answered is the following:
1. Is the video split up (between platform recipients) on the iPhone,
or on the Apple mainframe servers or on carrier mainframe servers?
2. Is the video downsized on that same server?
That's the first point of confusion that I'd like to iron out.
The fact that you are this clueless about basic messaging says all we
need to know about your claim to know more about Apple than anyone
else here. I'd feel embarrassed for you, except you sling insults
regularly here so you deserve the ridicule you get.
And yet you also don't appear to know the answer to the basic question
of where is the action of splitting up the video to two different
outgoing mechanisms performed - nor where the downsizing is performed,
Jolly Roger.
Where exactly do the clips get split into different outgoing
mechanisms?
It's very simple: Messages sent to iMessage users are sent with
iMessage. Messages sent to non-iMessage users are sent as SMS/MMS.
You've been told this countless times, and you continue to play dumb
in order to troll. You're playing dumb to bait someone into saying
something you can use as some sort of lame "gotcha" to sling more
insults and weak trolls around, polluting the newsgroup with your
bullshit. You're not fooling anyone.
My goal is to solve the problem.
In doing so, I need to understand exactly where the problem occurs.
Can you confirm that what you're apparently saying above is that the
action of splitting the outgoing messages into two channels is done on
the iPhone? a. Channel 1 is to send it to other iOS users b. Channel
2 is to send it to non-Apple users
And can you confirm that the action of downsizing the video is also
done on the iPhone?
Bearing in mind anyone can put their SIM card into either an iPhone or
an Android phone at any time...
...If both the splitting & downsizing occur on the iPhone
how does the iPhone know who is an Android user without first
communicating with the Apple mainframe tracking servers to derive that information, Jolly Roger?
Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
[...]
The two questions which need to be known to begin to understand the
process well enough to solve it are those which trace the path of the
video clip.
You can't "solve" it, without the *sender* using a *different*
method to get the video to you, i.e. as has been mentioned, using
some 'cloud' or other file transfer service.
1. Is the video split up on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier
servers?
With "split up", you mean the communication path is split, the video
isn't split.
Answer: (As Carlos indicated,) On the iPhone. Your mobile number is
in the sender's (i.e. iPhone) contacts. The Messages app on the
iPhone sees it's a mobile phone number, so it decides to send a MMS
message. As Carlos mentioned, the decision must be taken on the
iPhone, because the cost of the MMS message (even if it comes out of
a bundle) must be charged to the iPhone user's mobile provider
2. Is the video downsized on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier servers?
As we don't use MMS in the real world,
I don't know where the
(resolution) shrinking of the video is done, but I assume it's done on
the iPhone. Doing it on other servers would mean a huge waste of -
possibly very costly - mobile data.
Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 16:39:01 GMT :
You're both wrong. There is no "conversion", and MMS messages aren't
sent through the iMessage service. It's amazing this has to be explained
like you're a five year old, but so be it: The iPhone is a cellular device as
well as an internet device. As such, it has the capability to check with
Apple's iMessage service to see if a recipient is a user that is logged
into the iMessage service. If so, the message is sent through iMessage.
If not, the message is sent through the cellular service as an SMS/MMS.
Cellular providers require MMS messages to be reduced in quality as a
way to reduce cellular data use, which is why videos are degraded when
sent over the cellular service. That's it - no "conversion" takes place,
and the iMessage service is not involved in cellular messaging.
Thanks for that detailed explanation, which outlines some (but not all) of the ten or so discrete steps in the process of an iPhone sending a short video to both iOS and Android users (all using the default messaging app).
There is a downsampling so that's the conversion we are speaking of.
That downsampling is happening somewhere - where you don't say where.
Where is the downsampling occurring?
The process, based on what you said, appears to be this, is that correct?
1. iPhone sender is logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframe servers
iPhone recipient is also logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframes
Android recipient is not logged into Apple or Google mainframes
All have an active data connection to carrier towers & servers
Apparently on the Apple messaging mainframe server is kept a detailed
tracking of iOS-owners' AppleID associated with their phone number.
2. iPhone sender tries to send a short video to iPhone & Android recipients 3. That attempt to send apparently goes over the Internet first to Apple
mainframe servers which send back the decision of which of the
recipients AppleID's are logged into Apple messaging servers
(and which are not).
(I don't yet know what happens if there is no Internet connection
established by the sender's iPhone to Apple messaging servers though.)
4. Apple messaging servers accept only the videos whose AppleID's match
Apple's determination of who is logged into their messaging servers.
For those AppleIDs, Apple send the video over the Internet to the
recipients who are logged into the Apple messaging mainframe servers.'
(I'm not sure what happens if the recipient is on an iPhone and yet
they don't have cellular data Internet or Wi-Fi Internet at the moment.
What if the iPhone recipient only has a carrier non-data connection?
How is it sent when the message could be sent either way, right?
How is that message sent to iPhone owners?
a. Cellular-data Internet connection?
b. Wi-Fi Internet connection?
c. (It's probably not sent over the carrier's non-data connection.)
5. Apparently Apple messaging servers do not accept for transit on
their messaging mainframe servers any messages from the sender's
iPhone intended for people not recognized by the Apple messaging
mainframe server. Those are rejected apparently.
6. For any message rejected by the Apple mainframe messaging servers,
the senders iPhone is informed, again over the Internet of that fact.
7. Only at this point, apparently, does the sending iPhone resort to
sending the messages to the carrier (although this brings up the
question of whether only cellular data will work or if a local
Wi-Fi connection to the Internet to the carrier will also work).
8. Now is the problem of which machine does the downsizing of the
video, turning it into crap. Presumably the carrier does that.
Is that correct?
9. Once the carrier (presumably) downsizes the video, then it's sent
over the carrier's celltowers, one of which communicates with
the Android recipient's phone over the phone number identification.
Thank you for helping to hone how the process works.
I'm sure I got some things wrong above, and even if I got them right, there are still questions in the analysis above, so where do we need corrections?
Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 18:16:16 GMT :
The two questions which need to be known to begin to understand the processYou can't "solve" it, without the *sender* using a *different* method
well enough to solve it are those which trace the path of the video clip. >> >
to get the video to you, i.e. as has been mentioned, using some 'cloud'
or other file transfer service.
I'm not a bad problem solver, so I might find a workaround which doesn't
require the IPhone sender to change their habits just for me to receive a
decent video from them.
I'm quite sure you can't "solve" the problem, because it requires the *sender*'s device (iPhone) to do things differently and that is beyond
*your* control (and BTW also beyond his).
But by all means, eat your heart out and experiment away.
[...]
Lastly, when Apple figures out how to add RCS, that might also work then
to receive videos from iPhone users that are not crappy quality (but I
don't have much faith in that - yet - we'll have to just wait & see).
As has been mentioned (by Carlos and me), RCS is a theoretical
solution, but whether or not Apple will add RCS functionality to iOS is beyond your control, so *you* won't be "solve"-ing anything.
I don't know where the
(resolution) shrinking of the video is done, but I assume it's done on
the iPhone. Doing it on other servers would mean a huge waste of -
possibly very costly - mobile data.
No. The video is sent full size by the iPhone and the compression
happens on the receiving cellular network.
On May 17, 2024 at 7:20:23 PM EDT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
I don't know where the
(resolution) shrinking of the video is done, but I assume it's done on
the iPhone. Doing it on other servers would mean a huge waste of -
possibly very costly - mobile data.
No. The video is sent full size by the iPhone and the compression
happens on the receiving cellular network.
What seems to be missing in this discussion is that this happens in both directions. From Android to iPhone also. Is the "shrinking" then done on the Android phone?
No. The compression happens over the cell network.
So why is no one asking "Why are Android videos clear when sent to Android phones but blurry when sent to iPhones?"
On May 17, 2024 at 7:20:23 PM EDT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
I don't know where the (resolution) shrinking of the video is done,
but I assume it's done on the iPhone. Doing it on other servers
would mean a huge waste of - possibly very costly - mobile data.
No. The video is sent full size by the iPhone and the compression
happens on the receiving cellular network.
What seems to be missing in this discussion is that this happens in
both directions. From Android to iPhone also. Is the "shrinking" then
done on the Android phone?
No. The compression happens over the cell network.
So why is no one asking "Why are Android videos clear when sent to
Android phones but blurry when sent to iPhones?"
On 2024-05-17 15:17, Hank Rogers wrote:
Alan wrote:
On 2024-05-17 13:16, Andrew wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 19:49:16 GMT :
I'm not a bad problem solver, so I might find a workaround which doesn't >>>>>> require the IPhone sender to change their habits just for me to
receive a
decent video from them.
  I'm quite sure you can't "solve" the problem, because it requires >>>>> the
*sender*'s device (iPhone) to do things differently and that is beyond >>>>> *your* control (and BTW also beyond his).
  But by all means, eat your heart out and experiment away.
Thanks for your advice, where solving and working around issues are two >>>> different things, where I agree I can't solve the problem - but I am damn >>>> good at finding workarounds to every problem that I care to address.
But I need to understand better how the iPhone sends video first.
I worked in the Silicon Valley on industrial software considered
munitions,
so I'm not bad at workarounds - although I had a lot of training for that. >>>>
With Apple products, I don't have any formal training on how they work, >>>> so all that I know about them is what I experience myself dealing with >>>> them. https://i.postimg.cc/rwD6NrKX/ipadsandiphone.jpg
However, I think I have a workaround to the problem given out of those >>>> four
Apple iOS devices, one of them might be repurposed as a video receiver. >>>>
1. The iPhone is registered to another AppleID which I need to remove
   (but only after I take all the data off that iPhone first).
2. The "Activation Required!" iPad at left was bricked by Apple because >>>> Â Â Â I ran an experiment by not logging into Apple servers for two
years.
   Since it was a gift, I can't prove it's mine so Apple declined to >>>>    allow me to activate it - again giving proof to Apples lies about >>>>    privacy since I had to show my government ID to the Genius Bar
worker
   before they would even look at it.
Because they suspected you of having a stolen device, Arlen.
Why wasn't he arrested?
The sorry bastard should be in jail, right?
Because "suspicion" isn't the same as proof.
They wanted his ID so that if it turned OUT that the device was stolen,
they could point the police in the right direction.
On 2024-05-17 16:41, Tyrone wrote:
On May 17, 2024 at 7:20:23 PM EDT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com>
wrote:
I don't know where the
(resolution) shrinking of the video is done, but I assume it's done on >>>> the iPhone. Doing it on other servers would mean a huge waste of -
possibly very costly - mobile data.
No. The video is sent full size by the iPhone and the compression
happens on the receiving cellular network.
What seems to be missing in this discussion is that this happens in both
directions. From Android to iPhone also. Is the "shrinking" then done on the >> Android phone?
No. The compression happens over the cell network.
So why is no one asking "Why are Android videos clear when sent to Android >> phones but blurry when sent to iPhones?"
Indeed.
I believe I asked that question.
There is a downsampling so that's the conversion we are speaking of.
That downsampling is happening somewhere - where you don't say where.
Where is the downsampling occurring?
I already told you it happens on the receiving cellular provider's side,
as each provider sets their own file size limits.
The process, based on what you said, appears to be this, is that correct?
1. iPhone sender is logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframe servers
Oh, tHe HoRrOr - tHeY aRe LoGgEd InTo MaInFrAmE sErVeRs, yOu SaY??
No other messagaing app or service requires you to be logged
into it, RIGHT
iPhone recipient is also logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframes
Oh, noz!
Android recipient is not logged into Apple or Google mainframes
Lots of Android users log into Google servers.
And that's irrelevant as to this discussion, you tool.
All have an active data connection to carrier towers & servers
Apparently on the Apple messaging mainframe server is kept a detailed
tracking of iOS-owners' AppleID associated with their phone number.
Yes, and the Android cellular MMS message server keeps track of the
phone number and account details (including the name and other details)
of the user.
2. iPhone sender tries to send a short video to iPhone & Android recipients >> 3. That attempt to send apparently goes over the Internet first to Apple
mainframe servers which send back the decision of which of the
recipients AppleID's are logged into Apple messaging servers
(and which are not).
(I don't yet know what happens if there is no Internet connection
established by the sender's iPhone to Apple messaging servers though.)
Common sense should tell you that iMessage is an internet technology,
When you aren't signed into iMessage, you naturally can't send
messages through the service. So messages are sent as SMS/MMS messages through your cellular provider instead.
4. Apple messaging servers accept only the videos whose AppleID's match
Apple's determination of who is logged into their messaging servers.
For those AppleIDs, Apple send the video over the Internet to the
recipients who are logged into the Apple messaging mainframe servers.'
(I'm not sure what happens if the recipient is on an iPhone and yet
they don't have cellular data Internet or Wi-Fi Internet at the moment. >> What if the iPhone recipient only has a carrier non-data connection?
No data connection and no internet means no messaging. Duh.
Same for Android smartphones.
How is it sent when the message could be sent either way, right?
That "question" makes no sense as written.
How is that message sent to iPhone owners?
a. Cellular-data Internet connection?
b. Wi-Fi Internet connection?
c. (It's probably not sent over the carrier's non-data connection.)
You can't send messages without a cellular connection or internet
connection.
How in the holy fuck are you this clueless?
You regularly claim you know more about iPhones and technology than anyone else here.
5. Apparently Apple messaging servers do not accept for transit on
their messaging mainframe servers any messages from the sender's
iPhone intended for people not recognized by the Apple messaging
mainframe server. Those are rejected apparently.
Nope, wrong again. The iPhone doesn't even use the iMessage service for Android recipients.
6. For any message rejected by the Apple mainframe messaging servers,
the senders iPhone is informed, again over the Internet of that fact.
Nope. See above.
7. Only at this point, apparently, does the sending iPhone resort to
sending the messages to the carrier (although this brings up the
question of whether only cellular data will work or if a local
Wi-Fi connection to the Internet to the carrier will also work).
Wrong again. The iPhone checks to see if the recipient is an iMessage
user, and if not sends the message through the cellular network instead.
8. Now is the problem of which machine does the downsizing of the
video, turning it into crap. Presumably the carrier does that.
Is that correct?
Yep. And each carrier has their own file size limits and compression mechanism.
9. Once the carrier (presumably) downsizes the video, then it's sent
over the carrier's celltowers, one of which communicates with
the Android recipient's phone over the phone number identification.
Yup.
Thank you for helping to hone how the process works.
You could have looked this up on the web in seconds.
I'm sure I got some things wrong above, and even if I got them right, there >> are still questions in the analysis above, so where do we need corrections?
"We" don't need any of this - your little exercise is rather pointless,
since all of this is common knowledge to anyone who knows anything about technology, Arlen.
Alan wrote:
On 2024-05-17 15:17, Hank Rogers wrote:
Alan wrote:
On 2024-05-17 13:16, Andrew wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 May 2024 19:49:16 GMT :
I'm not a bad problem solver, so I might find a workaround which >>>>>>> doesn't
require the IPhone sender to change their habits just for me to
receive a
decent video from them.
  I'm quite sure you can't "solve" the problem, because it
requires the
*sender*'s device (iPhone) to do things differently and that is
beyond
*your* control (and BTW also beyond his).
  But by all means, eat your heart out and experiment away.
Thanks for your advice, where solving and working around issues are
two
different things, where I agree I can't solve the problem - but I
am damn
good at finding workarounds to every problem that I care to address. >>>>>
But I need to understand better how the iPhone sends video first.
I worked in the Silicon Valley on industrial software considered
munitions,
so I'm not bad at workarounds - although I had a lot of training
for that.
With Apple products, I don't have any formal training on how they
work,
so all that I know about them is what I experience myself dealing with >>>>> them. https://i.postimg.cc/rwD6NrKX/ipadsandiphone.jpg
However, I think I have a workaround to the problem given out of
those four
Apple iOS devices, one of them might be repurposed as a video
receiver.
1. The iPhone is registered to another AppleID which I need to remove >>>>>    (but only after I take all the data off that iPhone first). >>>>>
2. The "Activation Required!" iPad at left was bricked by Apple
because
   I ran an experiment by not logging into Apple servers for >>>>> two years.
   Since it was a gift, I can't prove it's mine so Apple
declined to
   allow me to activate it - again giving proof to Apples lies >>>>> about
   privacy since I had to show my government ID to the Genius >>>>> Bar worker
   before they would even look at it.
Because they suspected you of having a stolen device, Arlen.
Why wasn't he arrested?
The sorry bastard should be in jail, right?
Because "suspicion" isn't the same as proof.
They wanted his ID so that if it turned OUT that the device was
stolen, they could point the police in the right direction.
So, it turned out he was innocent?
Hard to believe, since he hates apple with all his soul.
Please see this image
I don't need to see any image. iMessage is optional and opt-in. That's a fact, Jack.
most US iPhone owners do log into the Apple iMessaging servers
Your claim that the iPhone logs into iMesage automatically is FALSE - a
LIE.
Most likely the reason you are unaware that Apple nags you dozens of
times a day, every day, to log into their many tracking servers, is
you log in.
Nope, sorry. Thanks for playing. Normal people rarely are asked to log
in dozens of times a day. You created that situation by logging in with
a fake email address and credentials you admitted you don't remember
which made it impossible for you to recover access to your account - a
very, very stupid thing to do. Then you turn around every chance you get
and try to blame Apple for your utter stupidity.
iOS is a dumb terminal
Bullshit.
2. iPhone sends a short video clip to multiple recipients using
Messages
The user could choose to send the video on another messaging app/service >>> if they wish.
You do not understand
I understand that you are here bitching about MMS messaging video
quality when any other messaging app/service will preserve video quality
just fine.
you have no clue what people do on their devices
That's ironic as fuck coming from the dumb ass troll who doesn't know
how something as basic as MMS messaging works.
3. Presumably that clip _first_ goes to an Apple iMessaging
server????? (is that correct?) (or does the iPhone do the splitting?)
Wrong again. The video is sent as an MMS message which goes through the
cellular carriers MMS service. Cellular carriers are notorious for
degrading MMS video quality to reduce data usage on their networks.
You do not show that you understand the process, Jolly Roger, as we all
know that it's _received_ as an MMS message on Android
You complete fool - it cannot be received as an MMS without it being
*sent* over the cellular network as an MMS. MMS messages are not sent
through iMessage - period.
but that's no longer the question that needs to be answered.
I'm not answering a question. I'm telling you what reality is, dummy.
The question that needs to be answered is the following:
1. Is the video split up (between platform recipients) on the iPhone,
or on the Apple mainframe servers or on carrier mainframe servers?
The video isn't "split up" at all. As I have already told you, if the recipient is an iMessage user, the video is sent via iMessage. If not,
it is sent via the cellular network as an MMS message.
2. Is the video downsized on that same server?
The video is downsized as a requirement for MMS messaging because MMS
has strict file size limits set by the particular cellular service
providers. For instance Verizon allows images up to 1.2 MB in size and
videos up to 3.5 MB in size. AT&T restricts videos to only 1 MB in size.
If a video is larger than that, it gets compressed automatically by the cellular service provider before delivery. Note that iMessage is
not involved in any part of this process - nor is a log in to Apple's
servers required or used.
That's the first point of confusion that I'd like to iron out.
The fact that you are this clueless about basic messaging says all we
need to know about your claim to know more about Apple than anyone
else here. I'd feel embarrassed for you, except you sling insults
regularly here so you deserve the ridicule you get.
And yet you also don't appear to know the answer to the basic question
of where is the action of splitting up the video to two different
outgoing mechanisms performed - nor where the downsizing is performed,
Jolly Roger.
Bitch, I've known this for literal decades. It's no secret. You can find
this out with basic web searches. You're just a huge fucking clown.
Where exactly do the clips get split into different outgoing
mechanisms?
It's very simple: Messages sent to iMessage users are sent with
iMessage. Messages sent to non-iMessage users are sent as SMS/MMS.
You've been told this countless times, and you continue to play dumb
in order to troll. You're playing dumb to bait someone into saying
something you can use as some sort of lame "gotcha" to sling more
insults and weak trolls around, polluting the newsgroup with your
bullshit. You're not fooling anyone.
My goal is to solve the problem.
No, your goal is - as always - to troll the Apple news groups in the
guise of "asking for help to solve a problem".
In doing so, I need to understand exactly where the problem occurs.
Already told you - you just don't like the answer.
Can you confirm that what you're apparently saying above is that the
action of splitting the outgoing messages into two channels is done on
the iPhone? a. Channel 1 is to send it to other iOS users b. Channel
2 is to send it to non-Apple users
There are no "channels" each recipient is sent the message, either
through iMessage or through the cellular network, depending on whether
the recipient is an iMessage user.
And can you confirm that the action of downsizing the video is also
done on the iPhone?
Nope, it's done by the cellular service provider. Sorry, you don't get
to blame Apple for this (and we all know that's where you were headed).
Bearing in mind anyone can put their SIM card into either an iPhone or
an Android phone at any time...
Irrelevant.
...If both the splitting & downsizing occur on the iPhone
Wrong.
how does the iPhone know who is an Android user without first
communicating with the Apple mainframe tracking servers to derive that
information, Jolly Roger?
How do you expect iMessage users to be able to message each other
*without* logging into the iMessage service, smooth brain? My god,
you're an idiot.
They wanted his ID so that if it turned OUT that the device was stolen,
they could point the police in the right direction.
So, it turned out he was innocent?
Hard to believe, since he hates apple with all his soul.
Apple announced long ago they would be adding RCS support
Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 23:33:19 GMT :
There is a downsampling so that's the conversion we are speaking of.
That downsampling is happening somewhere - where you don't say where.
Where is the downsampling occurring?
I already told you it happens on the receiving cellular provider's side,
as each provider sets their own file size limits.
And you are most likely wrong, Jolly Roger, which Frank Slootweg explained. But you tried so I'll leave it at that.
The process, based on what you said, appears to be this, is that correct? >>>
1. iPhone sender is logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframe servers
Oh, tHe HoRrOr - tHeY aRe LoGgEd InTo MaInFrAmE sErVeRs, yOu SaY??
Apple is like Ashley Madison, claiming privacy while it's always a lie. You're logged into Apple tracking servers every moment of your life.
Apple's promise of privacy is as false as Ashley Madison's promise was.
No other messagaing app or service requires you to be logged
into it, RIGHT
There is no other common consumer platform which requires you to be logged into it for the basic functionality of the phone - except for iOS, JR.
That you don't understand that fact is indicative of your religious mantra.
iPhone recipient is also logged into the iMessaging Apple mainframes
Oh, noz!
That you are unaware that Android sends & receives messages through the default messenger app without logging into Google servers is clear.
Only Apple requires you log into their mainframe servers for the messaging functionality that Apple advertises and that you religious zealots love.
Android recipient is not logged into Apple or Google mainframes
Lots of Android users log into Google servers.
And that's irrelevant as to this discussion, you tool.
It's no longer shocking you don't understand that no other operating system but iOS requires the user to be logged in 24/7/365 for basic functionality.
Google does not require that login into Google's mainframe servers.
Apple does.
Note: You can say "don't log in" but I've done that. Apple will
unilaterally brick your iOS device if you stop logging into the servers
for a period of time (two years in my case on two different iPads).
There's a reason Apple designed the iOS device to be a dumb terminal, JR.
It can't do anything that you love about iOS without Apple server logins.
All have an active data connection to carrier towers & servers
Apparently on the Apple messaging mainframe server is kept a detailed >>> tracking of iOS-owners' AppleID associated with their phone number.
Yes, and the Android cellular MMS message server keeps track of the
phone number and account details (including the name and other details)
of the user.
So does the iOS cellular MMS service, Jolly Roger. Nobody said otherwise. It's a necessary evil to obtain cellular phone service with MMS capability.
2. iPhone sender tries to send a short video to iPhone & Android recipients >>> 3. That attempt to send apparently goes over the Internet first to Apple >>> mainframe servers which send back the decision of which of theCommon sense should tell you that iMessage is an internet technology,
recipients AppleID's are logged into Apple messaging servers
(and which are not).
(I don't yet know what happens if there is no Internet connection
established by the sender's iPhone to Apple messaging servers though.) >>
Ah, but Android's default messaging is not - although RCS may change that.
When you aren't signed into iMessage, you naturally can't send
messages through the service. So messages are sent as SMS/MMS messages
through your cellular provider instead.
Exactly.
Without logging into Apple's mainframe servers, all the things you love
about your iPhone instantly cease to exist,. It's just a dumb terminal.
Hank Rogers wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 19:22:44 -0500 :
They wanted his ID so that if it turned OUT that the device was stolen,
they could point the police in the right direction.
So, it turned out he was innocent?
Hard to believe, since he hates apple with all his soul.
Whoa. I do not hate Apple. I don't like Apple but I don't like Google or Microsoft either. But there's no difference to me. I simply tell the truth.
And, Apple told me its their policy that you need two things for them to unbrick a device that they themselves bricked because I didn't log into it for more than two years (even though the login/password were correct).
1. Proof of ownership
2. Government ID (which they copy)
So much for privacy on Apple devices.
Notice they unbricked the one that I bought at that store.
But they wouldn't unbrick the one I couldn't prove was mine.
Now let's look at this from an adult viewpoint since apparently Alan Baker has been claiming I stole the iPad that I brought to Apple to unbrick.
Only Alan Baker would say that someone would do that, because if it was stolen, there's been plenty of time for Apple to be informed of that.
Since they have my ID, they could call the cops at any time should it be reported stolen in the future. The point is Alan Baker is a moron.
What he's doing is making kindergarten excuses for Apple's behavior.
But I do enjoy your wit as I have Alan Baker & Jughead in my killfile.
Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 23:09:08 GMT :
Please see this image
I don't need to see any image. iMessage is optional and opt-in. That's a
fact, Jack.
Actually, if you stop logging into the various Apple mainframe tracking servers, after about two years, Apple will unilaterally lock you out.
Ask me how I know this fact.
most US iPhone owners do log into the Apple iMessaging servers
Your claim that the iPhone logs into iMesage automatically is FALSE - a
LIE.
You log in once, and forever more it keeps you logged in Jolly Roger.
That you don't know that is no longer shocking about you Apple zealots.
Most likely the reason you are unaware that Apple nags you dozens of
times a day, every day, to log into their many tracking servers, is
you log in.
Nope, sorry. Thanks for playing. Normal people rarely are asked to log
in dozens of times a day. You created that situation by logging in with
a fake email address and credentials you admitted you don't remember
which made it impossible for you to recover access to your account - a
very, very stupid thing to do. Then you turn around every chance you get
and try to blame Apple for your utter stupidity.
You're wrong, Jolly Roger. I have the full login/password of all devices.
You just wish that were the case - but I went to Apple and they unbricked
one of my iPads so that I could log in again - using the SAME
login/password that I always used, Jolly Roger.
The second iPad they wouldn't unbrick because I had to produce the receipt, even though I gave them my government ID to prove who I was.
Those to situations prove the lies Apple spews about privacy since there is no privacy on iPhones for a huge variety of reasons, the fact you must log into the Apple servers (or Apple will brick it) being just one of them.
iOS is a dumb terminal
Bullshit.
Heh heh heh... you hate the truth about Apple products Jolly Roger.
It's no longer shocking you think you can download apps without logging
into Apple's mainframe tracking servers (yes, I know about the EU thing).
You can't.
2. iPhone sends a short video clip to multiple recipients using
Messages
The user could choose to send the video on another messaging app/service >>>> if they wish.
You do not understand
I understand that you are here bitching about MMS messaging video
quality when any other messaging app/service will preserve video quality
just fine.
The problem is simply that nobody in this thread has fully understood how
it works, least of all you and certainly I've said from the start I didn't.
You say you do but you say you understand everything and yet you're always wrong, Jolly Roger. Like when you said Apple fully supports older releases.
you have no clue what people do on their devices
That's ironic as fuck coming from the dumb ass troll who doesn't know
how something as basic as MMS messaging works.
And yet, not only don't you know how it works on an iPhone when they send a video clip to a group of users on both platforms, but nobody else knew either.
The only difference is you claim to know everything when it's clear you
don't know how it works (e.g., it's highly likely the downsizing is done by the iPhone as doing it anywhere else would negate the purpose of doing it).
3. Presumably that clip _first_ goes to an Apple iMessagingWrong again. The video is sent as an MMS message which goes through the >>>> cellular carriers MMS service. Cellular carriers are notorious for
server????? (is that correct?) (or does the iPhone do the splitting?) >>>>
degrading MMS video quality to reduce data usage on their networks.
You do not show that you understand the process, Jolly Roger, as we all
know that it's _received_ as an MMS message on Android
You complete fool - it cannot be received as an MMS without it being
*sent* over the cellular network as an MMS. MMS messages are not sent
through iMessage - period.
I said we all know it's received as an MMS message on Android, JR.
but that's no longer the question that needs to be answered.
I'm not answering a question. I'm telling you what reality is, dummy.
Except that you don't know how it works either, Jolly Roger.
The two things you don't know, and nobody so far knows, is
a. How does the iPhone know you're no longer logged into the
Apple mainframe tracking servers if it doesn't check them?
b. Where is the downsizing done?
The question that needs to be answered is the following:
1. Is the video split up (between platform recipients) on the iPhone,
or on the Apple mainframe servers or on carrier mainframe servers?
The video isn't "split up" at all. As I have already told you, if the
recipient is an iMessage user, the video is sent via iMessage. If not,
it is sent via the cellular network as an MMS message.
That's what I mean by split. It's a fork.
2. Is the video downsized on that same server?
The video is downsized as a requirement for MMS messaging because MMS
has strict file size limits set by the particular cellular service
providers. For instance Verizon allows images up to 1.2 MB in size and
videos up to 3.5 MB in size. AT&T restricts videos to only 1 MB in size.
If a video is larger than that, it gets compressed automatically by the
cellular service provider before delivery. Note that iMessage is
not involved in any part of this process - nor is a log in to Apple's
servers required or used.
Nobody is sure of that except you.
And you've never been right before.
So what you say is suspect without any cites to back up your guesses.
That's the first point of confusion that I'd like to iron out.
The fact that you are this clueless about basic messaging says all we
need to know about your claim to know more about Apple than anyone
else here. I'd feel embarrassed for you, except you sling insults
regularly here so you deserve the ridicule you get.
And yet you also don't appear to know the answer to the basic question
of where is the action of splitting up the video to two different
outgoing mechanisms performed - nor where the downsizing is performed,
Jolly Roger.
Bitch, I've known this for literal decades. It's no secret. You can find
this out with basic web searches. You're just a huge fucking clown.
And you "knew for decades" that Apple fully supported older releases too.
And that was a lie since the start.
Where exactly do the clips get split into different outgoing
mechanisms?
It's very simple: Messages sent to iMessage users are sent with
iMessage. Messages sent to non-iMessage users are sent as SMS/MMS.
You've been told this countless times, and you continue to play dumb
in order to troll. You're playing dumb to bait someone into saying
something you can use as some sort of lame "gotcha" to sling more
insults and weak trolls around, polluting the newsgroup with your
bullshit. You're not fooling anyone.
My goal is to solve the problem.
No, your goal is - as always - to troll the Apple news groups in the
guise of "asking for help to solve a problem".
Nope. My goal is to receive the baby videos without the iPhone destroying their quality. That's a simple goal. I've never cared about iPhone videos until now - so it didn't matter until now.
In doing so, I need to understand exactly where the problem occurs.
Already told you - you just don't like the answer.
Nobody agrees with you Jolly Roger.
And you've been wrong about everything in the past too.
So without a cite backing your claims, you're just guessing.
Can you confirm that what you're apparently saying above is that the
action of splitting the outgoing messages into two channels is done on
the iPhone? a. Channel 1 is to send it to other iOS users b. Channel
2 is to send it to non-Apple users
There are no "channels" each recipient is sent the message, either
through iMessage or through the cellular network, depending on whether
the recipient is an iMessage user.
Yes. It's a fork. But the question isn't whether it's a fork or not.
It is.
And can you confirm that the action of downsizing the video is also
done on the iPhone?
Nope, it's done by the cellular service provider. Sorry, you don't get
to blame Apple for this (and we all know that's where you were headed).
It's not clear to anyone but you that the downsizing is done at the
carrier. At first I thought that but Frank came up with a convincing
argument that it's done on the iPhone.
We need to find a cite for the correct answer.
Not just your guess.
Bearing in mind anyone can put their SIM card into either an iPhone or
an Android phone at any time...
Irrelevant.
Actually not.
...If both the splitting & downsizing occur on the iPhone
Wrong.
Could be right.
Without a cite, we don't know.
how does the iPhone know who is an Android user without first
communicating with the Apple mainframe tracking servers to derive that
information, Jolly Roger?
How do you expect iMessage users to be able to message each other
*without* logging into the iMessage service, smooth brain? My god,
you're an idiot.
Which is why I said the iPhone is designed as a dumb terminal.
It can't do all the things you love about it without logging into one of
the Apple mainframe tracking servers. You just said so yourself.
Android works just fine even if you never log into the Google servers.
So does every other common consumer operating system work without logging into the mothership's mainframe tracking servers, Jolly Roger.
That you're unaware of that is no longer shocking.
But if you have a cite for your claims, I'll read it and understand it.
On May 17, 2024 at 7:20:23 PM EDT, "Jolly Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
I don't know where the (resolution) shrinking of the video is done, but
I assume it's done on the iPhone. Doing it on other servers would mean
a huge waste of - possibly very costly - mobile data.
No. The video is sent full size by the iPhone and the compression
happens on the receiving cellular network.
What seems to be missing in this discussion is that this happens in both directions. From Android to iPhone also. Is the "shrinking" then done on the Android phone?
No. The compression happens over the cell network.
So why is no one asking "Why are Android videos clear when sent to Android phones but blurry when sent to iPhones?"
Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 23:33:19 GMT :
There is a downsampling so that's the conversion we are speaking of.
That downsampling is happening somewhere - where you don't say
where. Where is the downsampling occurring?
I already told you it happens on the receiving cellular provider's
side, as each provider sets their own file size limits.
And you are most likely wrong, Jolly Roger, which Frank Slootweg
explained. But you tried so I'll leave it at that.
The process, based on what you said, appear
Hank Rogers wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 19:22:44 -0500 :
They wanted his ID so that if it turned OUT that the device was stolen,
they could point the police in the right direction.
So, it turned out he was innocent?
Hard to believe, since he hates apple with all his soul.
Whoa. I do not hate Apple.
Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 23:41:29 GMT :
Apple announced long ago they would be adding RCS support
It's no longer shocking you misread what he meant, because Apple
"claiming" that they will "support RCS" is no different than Ashley
Madison claiming that they will scrub your identifying data if you
paid them to do it.
Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 23:09:08 GMT :
Please see this image
I don't need to see any image. iMessage is optional and opt-in.
That's a fact, Jack.
Actually, if you stop logging into the various Apple mainframe
tracking servers, after about two years, Apple will unilaterally lock
you out.
Jolly Roger wrote on 17 May 2024 23:09:08 GMT :
Please see this image
I don't need to see any image. iMessage is optional and opt-in. That's a
fact, Jack.
Actually, if you stop logging into the various Apple mainframe tracking servers, after about two years, Apple will unilaterally lock you out.
Ask me how I know this fact.
most US iPhone owners do log into the Apple iMessaging servers
Your claim that the iPhone logs into iMesage automatically is FALSE - a
LIE.
You log in once, and forever more it keeps you logged in Jolly Roger.
That you don't know that is no longer shocking about you Apple
zealots.
Most likely the reason you are unaware that Apple nags you dozens of
times a day, every day, to log into their many tracking servers, is
you log in.
Nope, sorry. Thanks for playing. Normal people rarely are asked to
log in dozens of times a day. You created that situation by logging
in with a fake email address and credentials you admitted you don't
remember which made it impossible for you to recover access to your
account - a very, very stupid thing to do. Then you turn around every
chance you get and try to blame Apple for your utter stupidity.
You're wrong, Jolly Roger.
I have the full login/password of all devices.
You just wish that were the case - but I went to Apple and they
unbricked one of my iPads so that I could log in again - using the
SAME login/password that I always used, Jolly Roger.
The second iPad they wouldn't unbrick because I had to produce the
receipt, even though I gave them my government ID to prove who I was.
Those to situations prove the lies Apple spews blah blah blah
So why is no one asking "Why are Android videos clear when sent to
Android phones but blurry when sent to iPhones?"
The answer is obvious: For the same reason videos sent from iPhones to iPhones are clear - they aren't sent as MMS messages.
No. The video is sent full size by the iPhone and the compression
happens on the receiving cellular network.
What seems to be missing in this discussion is that this happens in both directions. From Android to iPhone also. Is the "shrinking" then done on the Android phone?
No. The compression happens over the cell network.
So why is no one asking "Why are Android videos clear when sent to Android phones but blurry when sent to iPhones?"
Whoa. I do not hate Apple.
:)
your point is valid that the problem works both ways because the
two platforms default messaging systems are fundamentally incompatible.
Let's see if it's still a problem after autumn(?) if/when iOS 18 gets
RCS integration ...
Again, the reason it is the carrier who compresses MMS videos is because
each carrier has their own defined size limit.
No Apple login is required to use the basic functionality of an iPhone
Google does not require that login into Google's mainframe servers.
Apple does.
Google requires a login to use plenty of their services.
Frank is wrong, and so are you. What's comical is this is well known to anyone who knows anything about it. SMS/MMS messaging has been around
since like 2002, so it's no secret.
Because the vidoe compression happens as part of the cellular network
system, independently of the users' devices, so a video sent by SMS
(more precisely MMS) will be blurry no matter what device the receiver
is using - it will be blurry on iPhones, Android phones, WindowsOS
phones, etc. Everyone has simply gotten used to SMS video being blurry.
The problem is noticeable when the video from an iPhone is sent
automatically via Messages to another iPhone *and* compared to it being automatically sent via SMS to an Android device. Similarly when a video
sent by any device using another messaging app compared to it being
sent by SMS.
Basically MMS is crap, but then it is old tech from 1984 and by
agreement works on any capable cellular device from tiny screen dumb
phones upwards and via the old slow telcoms systems (which is why it
gets heavily compressed in the first place).
your point is valid that the problem works both ways because the
two platforms default messaging systems are fundamentally incompatible.
Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 00:35:44 GMT :
So why is no one asking "Why are Android videos clear when sent to
Android phones but blurry when sent to iPhones?"
The answer is obvious: For the same reason videos sent from iPhones to
iPhones are clear - they aren't sent as MMS messages.
It's not as obvious to me since nobody has yet explained why it's not symmetric. If it was all due to the carrier, why isn't it symmetric?
"Texting from Android to Android will see minor compression,
but it's compounded when going from iPhone to Android or
from Android to iPhone, since Apple's system gets in the way."
<https://www.macworld.com/article/232714/how-to-text-iphone-videos-that-are-not-blurry-on-android-and-vice-versa.html>
When MacWorld says "Apple's system gets in the way", what do they mean?
Your Name wrote on Sat, 18 May 2024 14:00:12 +1200 :
Because the vidoe compression happens as part of the cellular network
system, independently of the users' devices, so a video sent by SMS
(more precisely MMS) will be blurry no matter what device the receiver
is using - it will be blurry on iPhones, Android phones, WindowsOS
phones, etc. Everyone has simply gotten used to SMS video being blurry.
The problem is noticeable when the video from an iPhone is sent
automatically via Messages to another iPhone *and* compared to it being
automatically sent via SMS to an Android device. Similarly when a video
sent by any device using another messaging app compared to it being
sent by SMS.
Basically MMS is crap, but then it is old tech from 1984 and by
agreement works on any capable cellular device from tiny screen dumb
phones upwards and via the old slow telcoms systems (which is why it
gets heavily compressed in the first place).
But if it was all due to the carrier, then it would be symmetric, right?
Yet it's not.
"Texting from Android to Android will see minor compression,
but it's compounded when going from iPhone to Android or
from Android to iPhone, since Apple's system gets in the way."
<https://www.macworld.com/article/232714/how-to-text-iphone-videos-that-are-not-blurry-on-android-and-vice-versa.html>
When MacWorld says "Apple's system gets in the way" to explain
why Android-to-Android is less blurry than Android-to-iOS
or iOS-to-Android, what is causing that lack of symmetry?
It's not the carrier.
It's Apple (according to MacWorld).
But what is Apple doing to cause that extra blurriness?
I don't know.
Do you?
Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 03:28:33 GMT :
Whoa. I do not hate Apple.
:)
child-like Apple operating system
child-like Apple newsgroups
blashphemy
worship Apple
religious zealots
Kill the Infidels!
Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 03:13:53 GMT :
Again, the reason it is the carrier who compresses MMS videos is because
each carrier has their own defined size limit.
If it were only the carrier, why isn't the compression symmetric?
"Texting from Android to Android will see minor compression,
but it's compounded when going from iPhone to Android or
from Android to iPhone, since Apple's system gets in the way." <https://www.macworld.com/article/232714/how-to-text-iphone-videos-that-are-not-blurry-on-android-and-vice-versa.html>
Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 03:13:53 GMT :
No Apple login is required to use the basic functionality of an iPhone
How are you going to install apps without logging into Apple's servers?
On 2024-05-18, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 03:28:33 GMT :
Whoa. I do not hate Apple.
:)
child-like Apple operating system
child-like Apple newsgroups
blashphemy
worship Apple
religious zealots
Kill the Infidels!
You're a hateful little dork, Arlen.
Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 03:13:53 GMT :
Google does not require that login into Google's mainframe servers.
Apple does.
Google requires a login to use plenty of their services.
You can install apps on Android without logging into Google servers.
Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 03:13:53 GMT :
Frank is wrong, and so are you. What's comical is this is well known to
anyone who knows anything about it. SMS/MMS messaging has been around
since like 2002, so it's no secret.
I found a cite which says the carrier is doing some of the compression.
But if the carrier was doing all the compression, why isn't it symmetric? <https://appletoolbox.com/blurry-videos-when-sending-from-ios-to-android-check-these-tips/>
"There's actually a very noticeable downgrade in quality when
sending content from an iOS device to and Android device.
That blurriness isn't as prevalent when sending media from
an Android to an Android."
What is Apple's system doing that further reduces quality?
Andy Burns wrote on Sat, 18 May 2024 13:22:01 +0100 :
your point is valid that the problem works both ways because the
two platforms default messaging systems are fundamentally incompatible.
Let's see if it's still a problem after autumn(?) if/when iOS 18 gets
RCS integration ...
Thanks for that hopeful RCS cheer, where I was wondering how you were doing since you haven't posted in a while. You're one of the most knowledgeable
on the Android newsgroup - so your advice has been sorely missed by me.
I don't hold high hopes for RCS for two reasons (but maybe I will be wrong and that will solve the blurry video problems between Apple & Android).
1. Apple tends to implement to the letter of the law (not to the spirit)
2. I'd rather not use any Google app (so I hope others implement RCS)
We're still not out of the woods though with RCS, even if Apple finally figures out how to implement RCS without losing its walled-garden restrictions because Android to Android video compression is consistently said to be a far less blurry result than going between platforms.
Why?
I don't know why.
All I know is that "Apple's system gets in the way" according to MacWorld.
<https://www.macworld.com/article/232714/how-to-text-iphone-videos-that-are-not-blurry-on-android-and-vice-versa.html>
Does anyone know what that means in terms of what's happening?
Jolly Roger wrote on 18 May 2024 03:28:33 GMT :
Whoa. I do not hate Apple.
:)
I post on the adult consumer operating system newsgroups the same types of things on the child-like Apple operating system newsgroups, Jolly Roger.
Just because I post the truth about Microsoft, Canonical & Google, nobody there says I hate those companies. I don't like them. I don't hate them.
*I just post the truth.*
It's only on the child-like Apple newsgroups that the truth about the mothership is considered blashphemy, where, paraphrasing Hank's astute wisdom, you worship Apple to the point that you religious zealots scream
"*Kill the Infidels!*".
On May 17, 2024 at 11:21:34 AM EDT, "Andrew" <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
Tyrone wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 00:48:21 +0000 :
Where exactly do the clips get split into different outgoing mechanisms?
Not really sure how it all works. Assuming a "group chat" of mixed Apple and Android phones (I have several of those) I would ASSUME that it first goes to Apple servers. But not necessarily. There are settings on iPhones to use SMS/MMS "When iMessage is unavailable" but that could mean "When iMessage is down".
The bottom line is you need the same app on both ends. If someone sends a video from any phone with WhatsApp to any phone without WhatsApp (is that even
possible?)
then it would probably also be bad quality. Proprietary
formats/protocols and such are likely involved.
On 2024-05-17, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
Tyrone wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 00:48:21 +0000 :
3. Presumably that clip _first_ goes to an Apple iMessaging
server????? (is that correct?) (or does the iPhone do the splitting?)
Wrong again. The video is sent as an MMS message which goes through the cellular carriers MMS service. Cellular carriers are notorious for
degrading MMS video quality to reduce data usage on their networks.
On 2024-05-17 18:29, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2024-05-17, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
Tyrone wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 00:48:21 +0000 :
...
3. Presumably that clip _first_ goes to an Apple iMessaging
server????? (is that correct?) (or does the iPhone do the splitting?)
Wrong again. The video is sent as an MMS message which goes through the
cellular carriers MMS service. Cellular carriers are notorious for
degrading MMS video quality to reduce data usage on their networks.
I doubt that. They would directly reject the MMS, or simply charge for it.
I have never known of a cellular carrier degrading a video in transit.
The entry gate to the service that accepts or reject the video, yes. And
that one is Apple in this case.
On 2024-05-17 18:29, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2024-05-17, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
Tyrone wrote on Fri, 17 May 2024 00:48:21 +0000 :
...
3. Presumably that clip _first_ goes to an Apple iMessaging
server????? (is that correct?) (or does the iPhone do the
splitting?)
Wrong again. The video is sent as an MMS message which goes through
the cellular carriers MMS service. Cellular carriers are notorious
for degrading MMS video quality to reduce data usage on their
networks.
I doubt that.
They would directly reject the MMS, or simply charge for it.
I have never known of a cellular carrier degrading a video in transit.
The entry gate to the service that accepts or reject the video, yes.
And that one is Apple in this case.
On 2024-05-17, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
[...]
The two questions which need to be known to begin to understand the
process well enough to solve it are those which trace the path of the
video clip.
You can't "solve" it, without the *sender* using a *different*
method to get the video to you, i.e. as has been mentioned, using
some 'cloud' or other file transfer service.
1. Is the video split up on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier
servers?
With "split up", you mean the communication path is split, the video
isn't split.
Answer: (As Carlos indicated,) On the iPhone. Your mobile number is
in the sender's (i.e. iPhone) contacts. The Messages app on the
iPhone sees it's a mobile phone number, so it decides to send a MMS
message. As Carlos mentioned, the decision must be taken on the
iPhone, because the cost of the MMS message (even if it comes out of
a bundle) must be charged to the iPhone user's mobile provider
Close, but still incorrect. It's not about whether it's a phone number
or not. It's about whether the recipient is an iMessage user. iMessage
users can and do register their phone numbers as iMessage recipient
numbers, and they can also register email addresses.
2. Is the video downsized on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier servers?
As we don't use MMS in the real world,
MMS has only been in use on mobile phones since 2002, and is still in
use by people all over the world today, though certainly not as much as previous years, especially since more robust and feature-packed internet messaging apps gained popularity - but make no mistake, it is still used
in the real world (and is what we are discussing in this very thread).
I don't know where the
(resolution) shrinking of the video is done, but I assume it's done on
the iPhone. Doing it on other servers would mean a huge waste of -
possibly very costly - mobile data.
No. The video is sent full size by the iPhone and the compression
happens on the receiving cellular network.
On 2024-05-19, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
On 2024-05-17, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
[...]
2. Is the video downsized on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier servers?
As we don't use MMS in the real world,
MMS has only been in use on mobile phones since 2002, and is still in
use by people all over the world today, though certainly not as much as
previous years, especially since more robust and feature-packed internet >> messaging apps gained popularity - but make no mistake, it is still used >> in the real world (and is what we are discussing in this very thread).
My comment was just a tongue-in-cheek, because MMS is mostly only used
in the US (and NA?), because the rest of the world uses modern Instant Messaging platforms, such as WhatsApp. For the rest of the world, the
use of iMessage is rare and the use of MMS is even rarer.
This has been hashed and rehashed over and over again in these groups,
so please don't rehash it again.
Arlen is the one rehashing this yet again in the Apple newsgroups. We've
all been through this (and very similar) discussions with him before
here, but Arlen continues to harp on iMessage always in slightly
different contexts, and always in an attempt to cast Apple in a bad
light. Just because I was tired of his bullshit this time and spent time correcting it doesn't mean I'm the one rehashing anything. ?
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
On 2024-05-17, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
[...]
2. Is the video downsized on the iPhone, Apple servers or carrier servers?
As we don't use MMS in the real world,
MMS has only been in use on mobile phones since 2002, and is still in
use by people all over the world today, though certainly not as much as
previous years, especially since more robust and feature-packed internet
messaging apps gained popularity - but make no mistake, it is still used
in the real world (and is what we are discussing in this very thread).
My comment was just a tongue-in-cheek, because MMS is mostly only used
in the US (and NA?), because the rest of the world uses modern Instant Messaging platforms, such as WhatsApp. For the rest of the world, the
use of iMessage is rare and the use of MMS is even rarer.
This has been hashed and rehashed over and over again in these groups,
so please don't rehash it again.
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
On 2024-05-19, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
On 2024-05-17, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
[...]
2. Is the video downsized on the iPhone, Apple servers or
carrier servers?
As we don't use MMS in the real world,
MMS has only been in use on mobile phones since 2002, and is still
in use by people all over the world today, though certainly not as
much as previous years, especially since more robust and
feature-packed internet messaging apps gained popularity - but
make no mistake, it is still used in the real world (and is what
we are discussing in this very thread).
My comment was just a tongue-in-cheek, because MMS is mostly only
used in the US (and NA?), because the rest of the world uses
modern Instant Messaging platforms, such as WhatsApp. For the
rest of the world, the use of iMessage is rare and the use of MMS
is even rarer.
This has been hashed and rehashed over and over again in these
groups, so please don't rehash it again.
Arlen is the one rehashing this yet again in the Apple newsgroups.
We've all been through this (and very similar) discussions with him
before here, but Arlen continues to harp on iMessage always in
slightly different contexts, and always in an attempt to cast Apple
in a bad light. Just because I was tired of his bullshit this time
and spent time correcting it doesn't mean I'm the one rehashing
anything. ?
Sorry. Mixup.
I meant not rehashing the use of MMS. Because it's *not* "still in
use by people all over the world today". Yes, you added "though
certainly not as much as previous years", but those "previous years"
are more like a decade (or more), because in the rest of the world,
especially the 'western' world, the use of MMS has been close to
zero for many, many years.
Thanks again for your corrections on my assumptions/guesses.
On 2024-05-19, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
On 2024-05-19, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
On 2024-05-17, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
[...]
2. Is the video downsized on the iPhone, Apple servers or
carrier servers?
As we don't use MMS in the real world,
MMS has only been in use on mobile phones since 2002, and is still
in use by people all over the world today, though certainly not as
much as previous years, especially since more robust and
feature-packed internet messaging apps gained popularity - but
make no mistake, it is still used in the real world (and is what
we are discussing in this very thread).
My comment was just a tongue-in-cheek, because MMS is mostly only
used in the US (and NA?), because the rest of the world uses
modern Instant Messaging platforms, such as WhatsApp. For the
rest of the world, the use of iMessage is rare and the use of MMS
is even rarer.
This has been hashed and rehashed over and over again in these
groups, so please don't rehash it again.
Arlen is the one rehashing this yet again in the Apple newsgroups.
We've all been through this (and very similar) discussions with him
before here, but Arlen continues to harp on iMessage always in
slightly different contexts, and always in an attempt to cast Apple
in a bad light. Just because I was tired of his bullshit this time
and spent time correcting it doesn't mean I'm the one rehashing
anything. ?
Sorry. Mixup.
I meant not rehashing the use of MMS. Because it's *not* "still in
use by people all over the world today". Yes, you added "though
certainly not as much as previous years", but those "previous years"
are more like a decade (or more), because in the rest of the world,
especially the 'western' world, the use of MMS has been close to
zero for many, many years.
That's simply untrue. Just last weekend, my mom told me her friend who
uses an Android phone asked her why a video from someone else came
through very low quality, and I had to explain to her that the video was
sent as an MMS. People do still use SMS/MMS messaging today. It's not
nearly as popular as it once was, but people do still use it:
</Me>My comment was just a tongue-in-cheek, because MMS is mostly only
used in the US (and NA?), ...
<https://www.statista.com/statistics/185879/number-of-text-messages-in-the-united-states-since-2005/>
That's only the United States. Globally the number is way larger:
<https://www.sellcell.com/blog/how-many-text-messages-are-sent-a-day-2023-statistics/>
Thanks again for your corrections on my assumptions/guesses.
Welcome, though I'm mainly participating to combat Arlen's trolling and disinformation.
I doubt you will get confirmation from any non-US(/-non-NA?)
person that they are sending or receving MMS messages, unless of course
they are communicating with US(/NA?) people.
Anyway, I doubt you will get confirmation from any non-US(/-non-NA?)
person that they are sending or receving MMS messages, unless of course
they are communicating with US(/NA?) people.
As a - meaningless - data point: I have never sent or received a MMS message and have never seen others in our country (The Netherlands)
sending or receiving them. Just too awkward and (often) expensive.
I doubt you will get confirmation from any non-US(/-non-NA?)
person that they are sending or receving MMS messages, unless of course
they are communicating with US(/NA?) people.
I have sent less than a dozen, ever (too expensive) and received maybe
double that, none from outside the UK.
I think you people across the Pond actually pay less than we do, in
general, for our cellular services, don't you?
I pay about $30 a month lately for each of four phones in my plan.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg>
With that I pretty much get unlimited everything, which is why I didn't
worry about using MMS until the great grandchild was born recently.
BTW, Andy, do you have any idea how to work around the problem that arose when we set up an iPad to use Messages, where the problem was Apple is incapable of sending the message BOTH to the Android & iPad over Wi-Fi?
I think you people across the Pond actually pay less than we do, in
general, for our cellular services, don't you?
Generally it feels like it, I pay for SIM only, so no bundled cost for handset.
I pay about $30 a month lately for each of four phones in my plan.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg>
GBP8/month for 20GB data, wifi calling, unlimited SMS, unlimited minutes
to mobiles and "normal" landlines.
With that I pretty much get unlimited everything, which is why I didn't
worry about using MMS until the great grandchild was born recently.
we pay about GBP 0.5 per MMS
BTW, Andy, do you have any idea how to work around the problem that arose
when we set up an iPad to use Messages, where the problem was Apple is
incapable of sending the message BOTH to the Android & iPad over Wi-Fi?
No sorry, I have close to zero knowledge of iPads.
Frank Slootweg wrote on 20 May 2024 14:53:38 GMT :
Anyway, I doubt you will get confirmation from any non-US(/-non-NA?)
person that they are sending or receving MMS messages, unless of course
they are communicating with US(/NA?) people.
As a - meaningless - data point: I have never sent or received a MMS
message and have never seen others in our country (The Netherlands)
sending or receiving them. Just too awkward and (often) expensive.
Success!
Apple w/o interoperability <https://i.postimg.cc/cLBNKJb7/fuzzy.jpg>
WhatsApp w interoperability <https://i.postimg.cc/QMGrqLb9/clear.jpg>
We have worked around the problem of Apple/Android interoperability.
Our first attempt using an iPad failed, but for a reason that nobody had mentioned, which is that setting up the Messages on the iPad automatically REMOVED that user from her Android cellphone in the chat.
We should have used a different cellphone number but Apple didn't let us
have that choice. (I guess we can go back and change it to an imaginary
phone number but I'm not sure because we got frustrated with Apple).
I hadn't thought about that problem ahead of time, but it's yet another
Apple issue that if you have your phone registered to both your iPad and Android, even over Wi-Fi, Apple's messaging server will only send the video message to the iPad and not to the Android. Apple can't do both.
After that attempt using the Apple messaging system failed, we ditched the Apple messaging system altogether - which will be our workaround for now.
When the great grandchildren want to send videos to the family group,
they'll be sending them through WhatsApp from now on, avoiding Apple messaging altogether. (Since we're in the USA, we'll only need to use WhatsApp when sending messages between Apple & Android devices.)
(If everyone did this, Apple might finally decide to interoperate.)
Andy Burns wrote on Mon, 20 May 2024 20:18:32 +0100 :
I think you people across the Pond actually pay less than we do, in
general, for our cellular services, don't you?
Generally it feels like it, I pay for SIM only, so no bundled cost for
handset.
I pay about $30 a month lately for each of four phones in my plan.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg>
GBP8/month for 20GB data, wifi calling, unlimited SMS, unlimited minutes
to mobiles and "normal" landlines.
With that I pretty much get unlimited everything, which is why I didn't
worry about using MMS until the great grandchild was born recently.
we pay about GBP 0.5 per MMS
BTW, Andy, do you have any idea how to work around the problem that arose >>> when we set up an iPad to use Messages, where the problem was Apple is
incapable of sending the message BOTH to the Android & iPad over Wi-Fi?
No sorry, I have close to zero knowledge of iPads.
Thanks for both responses, where I think you guys across the Pond pay
mostly for what you use, while we pre-pay for packages of everything.
There are pros and cons to each system.
a. We pay through the nose but we don't worry a bit about usage.
The only thing that costs me money is International calling
(which costs, I think, twenty-five cents per minute as I recall)
My kids (who are still on my plan, use about 10GB/month (or so),
and about 5GB/month for hotspotting/tethering, while my wife and
I use only mere megabytes per month, which would easily fit into
your 20GB/highspeeddata/month.
b. You pay about 1/3rd of what we pay, apparently, but when you
start using too much data (in the form of cellular or MMS), then
your bills start to rack up it seems, while our bills is steady.
Your system is about 1/3rd cheaper.
Our system is easier on the worries.
Specifically your system discourages data usage (including MMS); whiule
ours encourage data usage (including MMS). Which is partly why iPhones have more traction in the US than elsewhere, as the iPhone is a dumb terminal without connecting to the Internet.
I'm not sure about iPhone traction in the UK & Europe but last I had
checked it was slightly over 1/2 the American phones in use (but since the iPhone requires the Internet to be useful, it's only going to have traction in countries which have steady predictable and fast 24/7/365 Internet).
As for the iPad workaround that failed, I think we would have been fine if the iPad had been registered to an Apple account using a _different_ phone number than the phone number on Android (it was my wife's old iPad).
It seems Apple has everything rigged to fail the instant you cross
platforms, but if we gave the iPad a bogus phone number for the AppleID
that Messages was signed into, it probably (maybe?) would have worked.
Dunno. I'm waiting for an astute iOS owner (yes, I know) to help me out.
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