<https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/ecodesign-and-energy-label/product-list/smartphones-and-tablets_en>
"Ecodesign requirements will apply to mobile phones and tablets
put on the EU market from 20 June 2025 onwards, including:
...
sufficiently durable batteries which can withstand
at least 800 charge and discharge cycles
while retaining at least 80% of their initial capacity
...
<https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/ecodesign-and-energy-label/product-list/smartphones-and-tablets_en>
"Ecodesign requirements will apply to mobile phones and tablets
put on the EU market from 20 June 2025 onwards, including:
...
sufficiently durable batteries which can withstand
at least 800 charge and discharge cycles
while retaining at least 80% of their initial capacity
...
<https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/ecodesign-and-energy-label/product-list/smartphones-and-tablets_en>
"Ecodesign requirements will apply to mobile phones and tablets
put on the EU market from 20 June 2025 onwards, including:
...
sufficiently durable batteries which can withstand
at least 800 charge and discharge cycles
while retaining at least 80% of their initial capacity
...
No existing Apple iPhone battery comes close, by even Apple's standards.
Not sure about iOS tablets, but I think they're only 500-cycle rated too.
Which is not even close to what they should be rated for (800 cycles).
No existing Apple iPhone battery comes close, by even Apple's standards.
Not sure about iOS tablets, but I think they're only 500-cycle rated too.
Apple's declaration of battery life is currently:
<<< Batteries of iPhone 14 models and earlier are designed to retain 80 percent of their original capacity at 500 complete charge cycles under
ideal conditions.
Batteries of iPhone 15 models are designed to retain 80 percent of their original capacity at 1000 complete charge cycles under ideal conditions.>>>
Not sure what ideal conditions means, but I assume not too cold and not
too hot. Would be nice if Apple were more forthcoming on that definition.
Which is not even close to what they should be rated for (800 cycles).
"should"? According to whom?
There are hundreds of millions of iPhone users around the world ... more
than 1.4B, according to one site. Doesn't sound like many of them are worried about what the EU thinks the battery life "should" be.
My iPhone 11 is coming up on 5 years old. It has definitely been
recharged more than 800 times. It's own internal capacity declaration
is 90% - but I don't care - it lasts much more than a day from 100% -
and that is all that counts.
To be sure my use case is not the test case the EU uses, but the battery
is good enough in capacity and wear for my use case and then some.
If it fell below 70% or so, there is a shop nearby that can replace the battery while I do the rounds at Costco.
Thanks for sharing the link for the first time despite ranting about this
for the best part of three days.
Now point to where the regulation confirms the subject of this thread i.e. "every iphone <15 fails the EU [battery] longevity test". Note the key
word "fails". Apple (or any other manufacturer) choosing to omit legacy models from new regulations is not equivalent to failing to meet the regulations.
There are hundreds of millions of iPhone users around the world ... more
than 1.4B, according to one site. Doesn't sound like many of them are worried about what the EU thinks the battery life "should" be.
My iPhone 11 is coming up on 5 years old. It has definitely been
recharged more than 800 times. It's own internal capacity declaration
is 90% - but I don't care - it lasts much more than a day from 100% -
and that is all that counts.
To be sure my use case is not the test case the EU uses, but the battery
is good enough in capacity and wear for my use case and then some.
If it fell below 70% or so, there is a shop nearby that can replace the battery while I do the rounds at Costco.
The fact remains that iPhones are the single most popular family of smartphones out there. Bar none. And that is for a reason and has
pretty much nothing to do with the battery, it's capacity or endurance
over charge cycles.
Amongst friends and colleagues 90% are iPhone users and this goes back
over 10 years and 3 or more phones per person. Tip: none changed their phones due to the battery.
None has ever even mentioned issues with the battery.
In uk.telecom.mobile Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
There are hundreds of millions of iPhone users around the world ... more
than 1.4B, according to one site. Doesn't sound like many of them are
worried about what the EU thinks the battery life "should" be.
My iPhone 11 is coming up on 5 years old. It has definitely been
recharged more than 800 times. It's own internal capacity declaration
is 90% - but I don't care - it lasts much more than a day from 100% -
and that is all that counts.
'800 times' is not 800 cycles - a cycle is full to empty. Plugging it in to top up only takes a fraction of a cycle, and keeping it roughly half charged causes less wear than being very full or very empty.
Charge cycles are not the number of times a battery has been charged.
'800 times' is not 800 cycles - a cycle is full to empty. Plugging it in to top up only takes a fraction of a cycle, and keeping it roughly half charged causes less wear than being very full or very empty.
Once you start getting less than 'enough' (a day for many people) then it forces you to change your habits, and at that point many people would
replace the phone.
To be sure my use case is not the test case the EU uses, but the battery
is good enough in capacity and wear for my use case and then some.
If it fell below 70% or so, there is a shop nearby that can replace the
battery while I do the rounds at Costco.
This is a really smart move, because cycle life is one of the things that distinguishes a quality battery from a cheap battery. 500 cycles is a
common cycle life for top tier branded products, and I'd not be surprised if the cheaper/trashier end is more like 200-300 cycles. It's also one of the primary causes for people to scrap otherwise working devices, since paying somebody to replace the battery is often going to be more than the 3/4/5/... year old phone is worth. Make the battery last twice as many cycles and you get twice as many years out of it.
Also, aftermarket batteries almost never mention their cycle life. I would not be surprised if that number is very low - ie you'll be back for a replacement before too long (100 cycles or less). Some actual testable ratings for those would be good too, especially since it's rare to be able
to buy original batteries more than maybe a couple of years after the phone is released (Apple would in theory be an exception, but Apple makes it difficult for third party repair).
Face it. There are no problems with Apple iPhone battery life,
endurance, charge cycles, etc. that matter to the vast majority of users.
<https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/ecodesign-and-energy-label/product-list/smartphones-and-tablets_en>
"Ecodesign requirements will apply to mobile phones and tablets
put on the EU market from 20 June 2025 onwards, including:
...
sufficiently durable batteries which can withstand
at least 800 charge and discharge cycles
while retaining at least 80% of their initial capacity
...
On 16/07/2024 00:40, Andrew wrote:
<https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/ecodesign-and-energy-label/product-list/smartphones-and-tablets_en>
"Ecodesign requirements will apply to mobile phones and tablets
put on the EU market from 20 June 2025 onwards, including:
...
sufficiently durable batteries which can withstand
at least 800 charge and discharge cycles
while retaining at least 80% of their initial capacity
...
Might be an idea to define exactly what is meant by "charge / discharge cycle" ?
Might be an idea to define exactly what is meant by "charge / discharge cycle" ?
I suspect that most phones are never left to discharge properly, and are rarely turned off.
On Mon, 15 Jul 2024 23:40:21 -0000 (UTC), Andrew wrote:
<https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/ecodesign-and-energy-label/product-list/smartphones-and-tablets_en>
"Ecodesign requirements will apply to mobile phones and tablets
put on the EU market from 20 June 2025 onwards, including:
...
sufficiently durable batteries which can withstand at least 800
charge and discharge cycles while retaining at least 80% of their
initial capacity
...
No existing Apple iPhone battery comes close, by even Apple's standards.
Not sure about iOS tablets, but I think they're only 500-cycle rated too.
Which is not even close to what they should be rated for (800 cycles).
But what about the Android phone & tablet batteries?
Anyone got an OEM page listing the cycle rating on Samsung/Google devices?
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 10:33:35 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
The fact remains that iPhones are the single most popular family of
smartphones out there. Bar none. And that is for a reason and has
pretty much nothing to do with the battery, it's capacity or endurance
over charge cycles.
Maybe in the small town you live in but most of the world is on Android. https://explodingtopics.com/blog/iphone-android-users
Only people in rich countries can afford Apple's 3X battery costs. https://swappa.com/blog/iphone-battery-replacement-cost/
Amongst friends and colleagues 90% are iPhone users and this goes back
over 10 years and 3 or more phones per person. Tip: none changed
their phones due to the battery.
It's odd you have never even once heard of the Apple battery gate issues.
None has ever even mentioned issues with the battery.
Given Apple's battery woes are widely known and yet you have no idea that about 11 million people per year had to prematurely replace their iPhone battery just to get iPhones not to die all the time, you're not credible.
W Tue, 16 Jul 2024 10:38:39 -0400, Alan Browne napisal:
Face it. There are no problems with Apple iPhone battery life,
endurance, charge cycles, etc. that matter to the vast majority of users.
No iPhone battery problems. No problem at all. Keep moving. Mind the gap. https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/6/24028162/apple-batterygate-payments-issued-class-action-lawsuit
Charge cycles are not the number of times a battery has been charged. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102888
I experience quite often that senior people have difficulties to accept this fact. Smartphones do a
lot of background stuff during night time.
No iPhone battery problems. No problem at all. Keep moving. Mind the gap.
Not at all. Two charge runs from 30% to 80% are the equivalent of one
cycle. See the point?
That also highlights the value of a large battery and energy saving
measures by the manufacturers.
That is defined. From 100% to 0% and back 100%. This is the equivalent
of one full cycle.
so ... completely unrealistic in "normal" use ?
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 10:33:35 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
The fact remains that iPhones are the single most popular family of
smartphones out there. Bar none. And that is for a reason and has
pretty much nothing to do with the battery, it's capacity or endurance
over charge cycles.
Maybe in the small town you live in but most of the world is on Android. https://explodingtopics.com/blog/iphone-android-users
On 7/16/2024 4:06 PM, Theo wrote:
'800 times' is not 800 cycles - a cycle is full to empty. Plugging it in to >> top up only takes a fraction of a cycle, and keeping it roughly half charged >> causes less wear than being very full or very empty.
Most new Samsung & Google phones go for a few days now on a full charge, especially those that are around five to seven amp hours in capacity.
Not at all. Two charge runs from 30% to 80% are the equivalent of one
cycle. See the point?
That also highlights the value of a large battery and energy saving
measures by the manufacturers.
No, I dont see the point - you have just moved the goalposts.
That is defined. From 100% to 0% and back 100%. This is the equivalent
of one full cycle.
W Tue, 16 Jul 2024 10:38:39 -0400, Alan Browne napisal:
Face it. There are no problems with Apple iPhone battery life,
endurance, charge cycles, etc. that matter to the vast majority of users.
No iPhone battery problems. No problem at all. Keep moving. Mind the gap. https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/6/24028162/apple-batterygate-payments-issued-class-action-lawsuit
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 10:33:35 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
The fact remains that iPhones are the single most popular family of
smartphones out there. Bar none. And that is for a reason and has
pretty much nothing to do with the battery, it's capacity or endurance
over charge cycles.
Maybe in the small town you live in but most of the world is on Android.
On 16.07.24 18:45, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
Not at all. Two charge runs from 30% to 80% are the equivalent of one
cycle. See the point?
That also highlights the value of a large battery and energy saving
measures by the manufacturers.
No, I dont see the point - you have just moved the goalposts.
No. You seem to be an old and abandoned trolley. Simple math, dear.
Maybe in the small town you live in but most of the world is on Android.
Read for comprehension.
Yes, there are more Android - but all from
different companies.
Why Apple makes money at this and only the top few Android makers make
money.
No iPhone battery problems. No problem at all. Keep moving. Mind the gap.
https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/6/24028162/apple-batterygate-payments-issued-class-action-lawsuit
There was literally no problem with the batteries in that case that is
not a problem for every smartphone battery.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 13:35:43 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Maybe in the small town you live in but most of the world is on Android.
Read for comprehension.
No. You read for comprehension.
Your credibility is worthless given every statement you make is easily
shown to be wrong. The fact you believe in bullshit is rather revealing.
Yes, there are more Android - but all from different companies.
Samsung alone sells more phones than Apple (in every quarter but one). https://qz.com/apple-iphone-samsung-smartphone-sales-idc-1851413504
Why Apple makes money at this and only the top few Android makers make
money.
Your credibility on Apple battery death is gone given you don't even know that Apple had to prematurely replace 11 million iPhone6 & newer batteries.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/15/apple-upgraded-10-to-11-million-batteries-according-to-report.html
That also highlights the value of a large battery and energy saving
measures by the manufacturers.
Your credibility on Apple battery death is gone given you don't even know
that Apple had to prematurely replace 11 million iPhone6 & newer batteries. >>
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/15/apple-upgraded-10-to-11-million-batteries-according-to-report.html
So more than 5 years ago.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 08:58:38 -0700, Alan wrote:
No iPhone battery problems. No problem at all. Keep moving. Mind the gap. >>> https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/6/24028162/apple-batterygate-payments-issued-class-action-lawsuit
There was literally no problem with the batteries in that case that is
not a problem for every smartphone battery.
Except that it only affected Apple & even then, only some Apple phones,
even though every Apple mobile device used the same battery chemistry.
Apple design was the problem. Apple batteries very often fail early.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 12:12:34 -0700, Alan wrote:
Your credibility on Apple battery death is gone given you don't even
know
that Apple had to prematurely replace 11 million iPhone6 & newer
batteries.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/15/apple-upgraded-10-to-11-million-batteries-according-to-report.html
So more than 5 years ago.
Read for comprehension. The guy said in 10 years he's never heard of anyone ever having an Apple battery prematurely replaced when everyone else knows Apple announced they replaced 11 million iPhone batteries in 1 year alone.
; Amongst friends and colleagues 90% are iPhone usersTip: none changed their phones due to the battery.
; and this goes back over 10 years and 3 or more phones per person. >
; None has ever even mentioned issues with the battery.
The guy's credibility is worthless given he's has never heard of this well known world-wide Apple-only battery problem where Apple chintzed out on the battery design in the iPhone a bit too much when trying to lower its life.
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
That also highlights the value of a large battery and energy saving
measures by the manufacturers.
The battery capacity has the largest impact on smartphone overall life.
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
That also highlights the value of a large battery and energy saving
measures by the manufacturers.
The battery capacity has the largest impact on smartphone overall life.
Guess why iPhone batteries always the smallest in any smartphone lineup.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 08:58:38 -0700, Alan wrote:
No iPhone battery problems. No problem at all. Keep moving. Mind the
gap.
https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/6/24028162/apple-batterygate-payments-issued-class-action-lawsuit
There was literally no problem with the batteries in that case that
is not a problem for every smartphone battery.
Except that it only affected Apple
& even then, only some Apple phones,
Apple design was the problem.
Except that it only affected Apple
Liar. Samsung was fined at the same time: https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-slow-down-fine-2018-917806/
& even then, only some Apple phones,
Liar. It affected all iPhones running iOS 10.2.1 and later which is when
the feature was introduced.
Apple design was the problem.
Nope. No evidence of that baseless assertion.
On 16 Jul 2024 22:57:46 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
Except that it only affected Apple
Liar. Samsung was fined at the same time:
https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-slow-down-fine-2018-917806/
Apple was charged with both criminal and civil crimes, almost all of which Apple had to settle for a total of well over 100 times that Samsung fine.
Even that same Italian watchdog group charged Apple twice that of Samsung. https://www.tuaw.com/2011/12/27/apple-fined-in-italy-for-poor-communication-around-warranty-poli/
Interesting how often Apple breaks the law. https://en.agcm.it/en/media/press-releases/
I keep forgetting
Interesting how often Apple breaks the law.
https://en.agcm.it/en/media/press-releases/
I can't see a single article that mentions "Apple".
On 16 Jul 2024 22:57:46 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
Except that it only affected Apple
Liar. Samsung was fined at the same time:
https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-slow-down-fine-2018-917806/
Apple was charged with both criminal and civil crimes, almost all of
which Apple had to settle for a total of well over 100 times that
Samsung fine.
On 2024-07-16 21:33, Mickey D wrote:
On 16 Jul 2024 22:57:46 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
Except that it only affected Apple
Liar. Samsung was fined at the same time:
https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-slow-down-fine-2018-917806/
Apple was charged with both criminal and civil crimes, almost all of
which Apple had to settle for a total of well over 100 times that
Samsung fine.
So the size of the fine is important...
...why exactly?
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 23:16:50 -0700, Alan wrote:
Interesting how often Apple breaks the law.
https://en.agcm.it/en/media/press-releases/
I can't see a single article that mentions "Apple".
Either you're blind, stupid, a liar, or you didn't click on the page.
Or all of the above.
11/05/2023 A561-A561B - Italian Competition Authority: Investigation opened
against Apple for alleged abuse of dominant position in the app market
17/12/2021 I842 - Italian Competition Authority: the fines applied against Amazon and Apple for anticompetitive agreements have been redetermined
26/11/2021 PS11147-PS11150 - ICA: $20 million sanctions against Google and Apple for commercial use of user data
22/11/2021 PS12131-PS12183-PS12184-PS12185-PS12186-PS12187 - Italian Competition Authority: investigations have been started on the NutriScore labelling system and the Yuka app
30/11/2020 PS11578 - ICA: Apple fined 10 million for misleading and aggressive commercial practices
07/09/2020 CV194-CV195-CV196-PS11147-PS11149-PS11150 - Antitrust: Investigations launched against Google, Apple and Dropbox for their cloud computing services
22/07/2020 I842 - ICA: investigation launched against Apple and Amazon for banning the sale of Apple- and Beats-branded products to retailers who do
not join the official programme
21/04/2020 PS11746 - ICA-Authority asks the operators of the major search engines and browsers to take action against unauthorised online sales of COVID-19 drugs
24/10/2018 PS11009-PS11039 - Apple and Samsung fined for software updates that have caused serious troubles and/or have reduced functionality of some mobile phones
18/01/2018 Proceedings initiated against Samsung and Apple for smartphone software updates
30/12/2011 Consumer protection: in 2011, proceedings concluded with over 12
million euros in sanctions
27/12/2011 Apple group fined 900 thousand euros for unfair commercial practices
Interesting how often Apple breaks the law.
https://en.agcm.it/en/media/press-releases/
I can't see a single article that mentions "Apple".
Either you're blind, stupid, a liar, or you didn't click on the page.
Or all of the above.
You presented a link to a page that didn't contain the word "Apple"...
...and you're suggesting I have to go digging for it?
Except that it only affected Apple
Liar. Samsung was fined at the same time:
https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-slow-down-fine-2018-917806/
Apple was charged with both criminal and civil crimes, almost all of
which Apple had to settle for a total of well over 100 times that
Samsung fine.
So the size of the fine is important...
...why exactly?
So he can try to move the goal post.
On Wed, 17 Jul 2024 09:48:51 -0700, Alan wrote:
Interesting how often Apple breaks the law.
https://en.agcm.it/en/media/press-releases/
I can't see a single article that mentions "Apple".
Either you're blind, stupid, a liar, or you didn't click on the page.
Or all of the above.
You presented a link to a page that didn't contain the word "Apple"...
...and you're suggesting I have to go digging for it?
Classic. Look up what Dunning Kruger means. You're the D-K poster child.
You know nothing. You deny everything. Without even clicking the links. You're a Dunning-Kruger poster child for ignorance beyond comprehension.
plonk
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2024-07-16 08:38, Harry S Robins wrote:
Charge cycles are not the number of times a battery has been charged.
No shit. I've snipped the rest of your post as well trodden ground.
The fact remains that iPhones are the single most popular family of
smartphones out there. Bar none.
Can you back that up?
According to this report Apple only out-shipped Samsung in 2023 for the
first time in 12 years. Plus, given 2023 was the worst year for shipments
in ten years means that there are more Samsung phones in use than Apple. https://www.ft.com/content/57163469-8682-4897-bbb2-1a200e4711d4
And that is for a reason and has
pretty much nothing to do with the battery, it's capacity or endurance
over charge cycles.
Amongst friends and colleagues 90% are iPhone users and this goes back
over 10 years and 3 or more phones per person. Tip: none changed their
phones due to the battery.
None has ever even mentioned issues with the battery.
I would absolutely love having a phone with a four or five day battery life as we used to get in the early days of smart phones.
None has ever even mentioned issues with the battery.I would absolutely love having a phone with a four or five day battery life as we used to get in the early days of smart phones.
On 2024-07-16 11:17, Chris wrote:
None has ever even mentioned issues with the battery.I would absolutely love having a phone with a four or five day battery
life
as we used to get in the early days of smart phones.
What early "smart phone" had a battery that lasted four or five days?
What early "smart phone" had a battery that lasted four or five days?
One you charge and leave on the sideboard unused.
Alan Browne wrote on Wed, 17 Jul 2024 14:40:18 -0400 :
What early "smart phone" had a battery that lasted four or five days?
One you charge and leave on the sideboard unused.
The iPhone *must* be charged every night because of the crappy battery.
Apple puts the smallest cheapest battery components such that almost every iPhone ever built miserably fails the EU lifetime testing requirements.
HINT: The gullible herd-animal Apple owner is always the last to know.
Why? Because they only read Apple advertisements.
And Apple is never going to tell you that their batteries are crap.
But wait!
Apple did tell these ignorant low-IQ uneducated Apple zealots that!
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/101575>
No iPhone meets EU lifetime requirements except the latest iPhones, which, let's be very clear, barely squeak into the barest minimum lifetime years.
Meanwhile, some Android phones long ago *doubled* EU lifetime requirements!
According to this report Apple only out-shipped Samsung in 2023 for the
first time in 12 years. Plus, given 2023 was the worst year for shipments
in ten years means that there are more Samsung phones in use than Apple.
https://www.ft.com/content/57163469-8682-4897-bbb2-1a200e4711d4
If you discount all of the bottom of the barrel crap that Samsung sells
in price ranges Apple doesn't support, I'll stand by my statement.
"Phones in use" is a whole other discussion depending on how long people
keep phones and what secondary market a phone ends up in.
I would absolutely love having a phone with a four or five day battery life >> as we used to get in the early days of smart phones.
Which would be a terrible thing for a phone maker to offer. A phone
that suits a narrow niche of need v. phones that suit the broadest range
of needs.
Most people are perfectly content with the notion of plugging in their
phone in the evening secure in the knowledge that it will be fully
charged for the new day.
And for many people, phones will go 2 days w/o a charge.
On 2024-07-16 11:17, Chris wrote:
None has ever even mentioned issues with the battery.
I would absolutely love having a phone with a four or five day
battery life as we used to get in the early days of smart phones.
What early "smart phone" had a battery that lasted four or five days?
On 17 Jul 2024 16:31:57 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
Except that it only affected Apple
Liar. Samsung was fined at the same time:
https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-slow-down-fine-2018-917806/
Apple was charged with both criminal and civil crimes, almost all
of which Apple had to settle for a total of well over 100 times
that Samsung fine.
So the size of the fine is important...
...why exactly?
So he can try to move the goal post.
You're the one who moved the goalpost to Samsung
plonk
On 2024-07-17 13:03, Andrew wrote:
Alan Browne wrote on Wed, 17 Jul 2024 14:40:18 -0400 :
What early "smart phone" had a battery that lasted four or five days?
One you charge and leave on the sideboard unused.
The iPhone *must* be charged every night because of the crappy battery.
And yet it is among the longest running smartphones...
<https://www.tomsguide.com/us/smartphones-best-battery-life,review-2857.html>
'The 14 Plus is the hardest iPhone 14 model to recommend, but battery
life is the big thing in its favour. This is a phone that can
comfortably last two full days of normal use, and potentially stretch to three if you only use it occasionally.'
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-07-16 11:17, Chris wrote:
None has ever even mentioned issues with the battery.I would absolutely love having a phone with a four or five day battery life >>> as we used to get in the early days of smart phones.
What early "smart phone" had a battery that lasted four or five days?
Pretty sure my HTC Desire (I think it was) lasted far longer longer then my current iphone. I do distinctly remember the difference when I upgraded at the time.
Alan Browne wrote on Wed, 17 Jul 2024 14:24:55 -0400 :
According to this report Apple only out-shipped Samsung in 2023 for the
first time in 12 years. Plus, given 2023 was the worst year for shipments >>> in ten years means that there are more Samsung phones in use than Apple. >>> https://www.ft.com/content/57163469-8682-4897-bbb2-1a200e4711d4
If you discount all of the bottom of the barrel crap that Samsung sells
in price ranges Apple doesn't support, I'll stand by my statement.
While I don't disparage anyone who loves their phone
Do you want to compare performance benchmarks now?
The fact remains that iPhones are the single most popular family of
smartphones out there. Bar none.
Can you back that up?
Noted that you haven't.
According to this report Apple only out-shipped Samsung in 2023 for the
first time in 12 years. Plus, given 2023 was the worst year for shipments >>> in ten years means that there are more Samsung phones in use than Apple. >>> https://www.ft.com/content/57163469-8682-4897-bbb2-1a200e4711d4
If you discount all of the bottom of the barrel crap that Samsung sells
Why? For many parts of the world the top-end phones cost a significant proportion of a normal salary.
in price ranges Apple doesn't support, I'll stand by my statement.
Cognitive bias.
"Phones in use" is a whole other discussion depending on how long people
keep phones and what secondary market a phone ends up in.
No it isn't. You said "popular", which by definition means those in use.
I would absolutely love having a phone with a four or five day battery life >>> as we used to get in the early days of smart phones.
Which would be a terrible thing for a phone maker to offer. A phone
that suits a narrow niche of need v. phones that suit the broadest range
of needs.
How is wanting a longer battery life "a narrow niche"? Note to Arlen: this doesn't necessarily mean a larger battery.
Most people are perfectly content with the notion of plugging in their
phone in the evening secure in the knowledge that it will be fully
charged for the new day.
A longer battery life gives extra confidence that the phone will last a day even when used extensively.
And for many people, phones will go 2 days w/o a charge.
I'd like to know who these people are. Do they have the max/plus size
phone, do they not really use them or they sit on wifi all the time?
The last few days I've had a different routine and my phone barely lasts a day. I don't have as much access to wifi and the mobile signal is
relatively weak which I think is the main culprit. Even on the best of days two days use is only possible under the best conditions.
On Thu, 18 Jul 2024 17:38:53 -0700, Alan wrote:
Do you want to compare performance benchmarks now?
T-Mobile doesn't charge anything (but tax) for its free 5g phones.
And T-Mobile has no contract either so it's not part of your contract.
All realistic comparisons always take into account price when comparing performance, so what's the price to performance of the best iPhone you can find compared against his 5 amp hour free Samsung Galaxy A32-5g?
Chris wrote on Thu, 18 Jul 2024 07:03:52 -0000 (UTC) :
The fact remains that iPhones are the single most popular family of
smartphones out there. Bar none.
Can you back that up?
Noted that you haven't.
Notice the cognitive bias of Alan Browne where he insisted the iPhone
outsold Samsung when the fact is that this happened 1 month in 12 years.
According to this report Apple only out-shipped Samsung in 2023 for the >>>> first time in 12 years. Plus, given 2023 was the worst year for shipments >>>> in ten years means that there are more Samsung phones in use than Apple. >>>> https://www.ft.com/content/57163469-8682-4897-bbb2-1a200e4711d4
If you discount all of the bottom of the barrel crap that Samsung sells
Why? For many parts of the world the top-end phones cost a significant
proportion of a normal salary.
Clearly two facts elude Alan Browne. One of which is Samsung alone outsells the iPhone. The other is Android has most of the world market for a reason.
in price ranges Apple doesn't support, I'll stand by my statement.
Cognitive bias.
Given the iPhone is a designed from the start to be a dumb terminal
tethered 24/7/365 to Cupertino's servers, it's no wonder Alan Browne
claims that what works in the rich USA will work everywhere in the world.
"Phones in use" is a whole other discussion depending on how long people >>> keep phones and what secondary market a phone ends up in.
No it isn't. You said "popular", which by definition means those in use.
Even though iPhones have the shortest lifespan of all phones (note that
every iPhone except the latest miserably fails EU longevity standards!),
the fact Android is most of the world market shows Alan Browne to be wrong.
I would absolutely love having a phone with a four or five day battery life
as we used to get in the early days of smart phones.
Which would be a terrible thing for a phone maker to offer. A phone
that suits a narrow niche of need v. phones that suit the broadest range >>> of needs.
How is wanting a longer battery life "a narrow niche"? Note to Arlen: this >> doesn't necessarily mean a larger battery.
Just as the power of a gun or the power of a rocket or the power of an airplane or the power of a vehicle, etc., has fundamentally everything to
do with size - it's the same with electronics - where battery size is key.
Most people are perfectly content with the notion of plugging in their
phone in the evening secure in the knowledge that it will be fully
charged for the new day.
A longer battery life gives extra confidence that the phone will last a day >> even when used extensively.
Apple claims 2% efficiency but Android batteries are more than 100% larger. Ignorant Apple zealots think 2% is 200% because none of them know any math.
And for many people, phones will go 2 days w/o a charge.
I'd like to know who these people are. Do they have the max/plus size
phone, do they not really use them or they sit on wifi all the time?
Only the current iPhone 15's meet the EU minimum lifetime for batteries. Every iPhone before the iPhone 15 miserably fails EU lifetime minimums.
You'd be hard pressed to find an Android that isn't *double* the lifetime.
The last few days I've had a different routine and my phone barely lasts a >> day. I don't have as much access to wifi and the mobile signal is
relatively weak which I think is the main culprit. Even on the best of days >> two days use is only possible under the best conditions.
My 2021 (free T-Mobile) Samsung Galaxy A32-5G 5Amp-hour battery lasts days, where the largest most expensive iPhone has nothing even close to that quality - which is why I only charge the phone when it needs to be charged.
Even though iPhones have the shortest lifespan of all phones
This has been debunked so many times. Why do you have keep lying?
(note that
every iPhone except the latest miserably fails EU longevity standards!),
Also very debatable.
of a gun or the power of a rocket or the power of an
airplane or the power of a vehicle, etc., has fundamentally everything to
do with size - it's the same with electronics - where battery size is key.
Of course you're wrong again. I even preempted your response.
You'd be hard pressed to find an Android that isn't *double* the lifetime.
You have yet to show *any* evidence of that. So you're lying again.
The last few days I've had a different routine and my phone barely lasts a >>> day. I don't have as much access to wifi and the mobile signal is
relatively weak which I think is the main culprit. Even on the best of days >>> two days use is only possible under the best conditions.
My 2021 (free T-Mobile) Samsung Galaxy A32-5G 5Amp-hour battery lasts days, >> where the largest most expensive iPhone has nothing even close to that
quality - which is why I only charge the phone when it needs to be charged.
An unused phone on wifi will last days.
Chris wrote on Fri, 19 Jul 2024 06:58:19 -0000 (UTC) :
Even though iPhones have the shortest lifespan of all phones
This has been debunked so many times. Why do you have keep lying?
Did you read Apple's own published cite which says *none* of the iPhones
meet the EU longevity requirement - except the latest iPhone 15, Chris?
(note that
every iPhone except the latest miserably fails EU longevity standards!),
Also very debatable.
What's no longer shocking is you've been presented many times with Apple's own published cite for why only the iPhone 15 meets EU longevity standards, and yet, you're so far to the left of Mount Stupid, you can't remember it?
of a gun or the power of a rocket or the power of anOf course you're wrong again. I even preempted your response.
airplane or the power of a vehicle, etc., has fundamentally everything to >>> do with size - it's the same with electronics - where battery size is key. >>
You're so far to the left of Mount Stupid on your lack of knowledge of battery chemistry that you don't even realize _why_ the EU made the
lifetime requirements, which, let's face it, every iPhone prior to the
iPhone 15 failed miserably.
Even then, the iPhone 15 *barely* squeaks by EU requirements, while we already provided reputable cites showing many Android phones *double* them.
You'd be hard pressed to find an Android that isn't *double* the lifetime. >>You have yet to show *any* evidence of that. So you're lying again.
It's no longer shocking how far to the left of Mount Stupid you are, Chris, in that the cite was clearly presented multiple times in this thread alone.
An unused phone on wifi will last days.The last few days I've had a different routine and my phone barely lasts a >>>> day. I don't have as much access to wifi and the mobile signal is
relatively weak which I think is the main culprit. Even on the best of days
two days use is only possible under the best conditions.
My 2021 (free T-Mobile) Samsung Galaxy A32-5G 5Amp-hour battery lasts days, >>> where the largest most expensive iPhone has nothing even close to that
quality - which is why I only charge the phone when it needs to be charged. >>
You uneducated ignorant Apple zealots have no idea that battery capacity is the fundamental determinant of the number of years a phone will last.
Does it ever occur to you to wonder why no iPhone meets EU requirements (before the iPhone 15, which was designed with the EU requirement in mind)?
How is wanting a longer battery life "a narrow niche"? Note to Arlen: this >> doesn't necessarily mean a larger battery.Just as the power of a gun or the power of a rocket or the power of an airplane or the power of a vehicle, etc., has fundamentally everything to
do with size - it's the same with electronics - where battery size is key.
As I've said previously, it is interesting that old an iOS minor update
was required to meet the regulation therefore the hardware was always compliant. Presumably Apple's standard for longevity is different to
it's 500 definition is equivalent to >800 for the EU's definition.d
(note thatAlso very debatable.
every iPhone except the latest miserably fails EU longevity standards!), >>>
What's no longer shocking is you've been presented many times with Apple's >> own published cite for why only the iPhone 15 meets EU longevity standards, >> and yet, you're so far to the left of Mount Stupid, you can't remember it?
See above. It's not a failure, it's a choice not to update their
definitions for older (no longer available at the time of requirement) models.
of a gun or the power of a rocket or the power of anOf course you're wrong again. I even preempted your response.
airplane or the power of a vehicle, etc., has fundamentally everything to >>>> do with size - it's the same with electronics - where battery size is key. >>>
You're so far
It's your analogy that is wrong. Engine power, for example, for cars has
not dramatically dropped, but engine capacity has. A 1l petrol engine
today is similar to a 1.4 or 1.6 from 10-15 years ago. Plus MPG has increased, despite cars getting heavier.
Rocket power is directly proportional to the energy density of the fuel.
Not simply the size of the rocket. That's just dumb.
I could go on...
Even then, the iPhone 15 *barely* squeaks by EU requirements, while we
already provided reputable cites showing many Android phones *double* them.
Where? I can't be arsed reading your constant verbal diarrhoea.
You'd be hard pressed to find an Android that isn't *double* the lifetime. >>>You have yet to show *any* evidence of that. So you're lying again.
The list that is regularly posted to counter this shows that battery
lifetime of the best Androids is not double that iphones. If you
normalise by battery capacity - which any decent engineer or scientist
would do - then battery lifetime is only marginally better in android.
Chris wrote on Mon, 22 Jul 2024 08:43:30 +0100 :
As I've said previously, it is interesting that old an iOS minor update
was required to meet the regulation therefore the hardware was always
compliant. Presumably Apple's standard for longevity is different to
it's 500 definition is equivalent to >800 for the EU's definition.d
All my assessments are based on facts; not on religious beliefs.
*Apple Increases iPhone 15's Advertised Battery Lifespan*
<https://www.macrumors.com/2024/02/20/apple-raises-iphone-15-advertised-battery-lifespan/>
"In a support document updated today, Apple says the batteries
in the iPhone 15, iPhone 15 Plus, iPhone 15 Pro, and iPhone 15 Pro Max
are designed to retain 80% of their original capacity at 1,000 complete
charge cycles under ideal conditions, compared to the 500 charge cycles
it advertises for all older iPhone models."
Hence, I agree with anyone who says something logically sensible, where I
too find it interesting that Apple apparently, suddenly, magically perhaps, seems to have met stricter EU standard with a mere iOS 17.4 beta update.
<https://www.inverse.com/tech/why-iphone-15-battery-charge-cycles-increased-from-500-to-1000>
"But then Apple released iOS 17.4 beta yesterday, and suddenly
the batteries in all iPhone 15 models can now retain 80 percent
of their original capacity at 1,000 complete charge cycles."
See above. It's not a failure, it's a choice not to update their(note thatAlso very debatable.
every iPhone except the latest miserably fails EU longevity standards!), >>>>
What's no longer shocking is you've been presented many times with Apple's >>> own published cite for why only the iPhone 15 meets EU longevity standards, >>> and yet, you're so far to the left of Mount Stupid, you can't remember it? >>
definitions for older (no longer available at the time of requirement)
models.
I am an adult, not a religious zealot, so I'll agree with any sensibly logical statement which has some factual basis in the published record.
"Apple said it is investigating the battery lifespans of older iPhone
models, so a comparison based on the latest testing parameters
remains to be seen."
<https://www.macrumors.com/2024/02/20/apple-raises-iphone-15-advertised-battery-lifespan/>
It seems to be something odd going on in how Apple reports battery life.
<https://www.inverse.com/tech/why-iphone-15-battery-charge-cycles-increased-from-500-to-1000>
"How the heck did Apple magically double the health of its iPhone 15
batteries without changing anything about its physical chemistry?
Apple tells Inverse that there's no change in the hardware or software,
only that the additional testing methods changed to meet the new
80 percent original capacity retention at 1,000 cycles."
of a gun or the power of a rocket or the power of an
airplane or the power of a vehicle, etc., has fundamentally everything to >>>>> do with size - it's the same with electronics - where battery size is key.
Of course you're wrong again. I even preempted your response.
You're so far
It's your analogy that is wrong. Engine power, for example, for cars has
not dramatically dropped, but engine capacity has. A 1l petrol engine
today is similar to a 1.4 or 1.6 from 10-15 years ago. Plus MPG has
increased, despite cars getting heavier.
Rocket power is directly proportional to the energy density of the fuel.
Not simply the size of the rocket. That's just dumb.
I could go on...
Aurgh. No analogy is perfect. If all you can do is attack the analogy, then it means that you don't get the main point that the analogy was meant for.
Since abstract analogies aren't your thing, let's look at it directly.
a. Say you have two phones with exactly the same current use patterns.
b. One of those phones has half the battery capacity of the other.
c. Which phone is going to have more charge cycles in any given year?
Now I already know how you strange religious zealots think, which means I already am well aware that basic arithmetic has eluded you your whole life.
What you're going to say is that the phone with the 100% smaller battery happens to have a 2% lower current output, right? I know you'll say this.
What you don't understand is that a 2% efficiency cannot possibly overcome
a 100% deficiency. This is basic arithmetic the analogy was meant to show.
It's the same lack of basic math skills nospam used for the 3% efficiency
in RAM which nospam claimed can overcome a 200% deficiency in RAM capacity.
Even then, the iPhone 15 *barely* squeaks by EU requirements, while weWhere? I can't be arsed reading your constant verbal diarrhoea.
already provided reputable cites showing many Android phones *double* them. >>
These are well-known published reports so you, with your PhD in the medical sciences, certainly can handle a link that is already in this thread Chris.
Think about that before you complain that you can't handle any details.
If a simple post in a Usenet thread is too much detail for you, then it's doubtful you could earn a PhD in anything, let alone in the science field.
You'd be hard pressed to find an Android that isn't *double* the lifetime.
You have yet to show *any* evidence of that. So you're lying again.
The list that is regularly posted to counter this shows that battery
lifetime of the best Androids is not double that iphones. If you
normalise by battery capacity - which any decent engineer or scientist
would do - then battery lifetime is only marginally better in android.
It's no longer shocking that you think lifetime is measured in hours.
Or even in days. We're talking years, Chris.
This is simple math.
If an iPhone has a battery half the size of an equivalent Android phone,
and if we grant that iPhone a 2% efficiency in current use doing the same things as the Android phone, that 2% does not overcome the missing 100%.
There's are reasons I claim you zealots are ignorant and uneducated.
One of these reasons is that simple math is not something you grasp.
Even if the iPhone is 2% or 3% more efficient than an equivalent Android phone, if the Android phone has twice the battery capacity, then the iPhone will definitely reach discharge cycles far sooner than the Android will.
This is simple arithmetic, Chris.
You having claimed a PhD in the medical sciences should comprehend math.
All my assessments are based on facts;
Far from it. You have your own special definition of what a fact is. It is often just an opinion.
I'm glad you agree that meeting the EU requirement is not just a hardware issue and choosing not to include a model is not a "failure".
Aurgh. No analogy is perfect. If all you can do is attack the analogy,
Then why use it? It distracts from your point.
then
it means that you don't get the main point that the analogy was meant for.
Actually, the car analogy works better then you'd like to admit. Car engine power has not really changed over the years, but capacity has reduced while efficiency has increased.
Since abstract analogies aren't your thing, let's look at it directly.
a. Say you have two phones with exactly the same current use patterns.
b. One of those phones has half the battery capacity of the other.
c. Which phone is going to have more charge cycles in any given year?
As per usual you're ignoring efficiency. Using your car analogy you're
simply looking at the size of the tank to see how often you need to refuel. By your definition a 100L tank is better than an 80L despite the larger one being in a car that does only 20 mpg compared to 40 mpg in the other car.
Now I already know how you strange religious zealots think, which means I
already am well aware that basic arithmetic has eluded you your whole life. >>
What you're going to say is that the phone with the 100% smaller battery
happens to have a 2% lower current output, right? I know you'll say this.
I won't and never have.
Where? I can't be arsed reading your constant verbal diarrhoea.
These are well-known published reports so you, with your PhD in the medical >> sciences, certainly can handle a link that is already in this thread Chris.
You literally post hundreds of times a month. No-one reads all those.
If you could keep on-topic in a single (short) thread that would helpful.
Far from it. You have your own special definition of what a fact is. It is >>> often just an opinion.
Well, did you noticed I *agreed* with you
I noticed how you can write dozens of lines and say nothing (new) at all.
Chris wrote on Wed, 24 Jul 2024 06:47:03 -0000 (UTC) :
Far from it. You have your own special definition of what a fact is. It is >>>> often just an opinion.
Well, did you noticed I *agreed* with you
I noticed how you can write dozens of lines and say nothing (new) at all.
Maybe you missed that I agreed with you that Apple seems to have secretly fudged the numbers such that the iPhone's laughably cheap substandard crap batteries mysteriously went from miserably failing EU lifetime performance goals to passing them.
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