For a brief moment earlier this month, I thought an old acquaintance had passed away. I was still groggy one morning when I checked my phone to
find a notification delivering the news. "Obituary shared,"ť the message bluntly said, followed by his name. But when I opened my phone, I
learned that he was very much still alive. Apple's latest software
update was to blame: A new feature that uses AI to summarize iPhone notifications had distorted the original text message. It wasn't my acquaintance who had died, but a relative of his. That's whose obituary
I had received.
These notification summaries are perhaps the most visible part of Apple Intelligence, the company's long-awaited suite of AI features, which officially began to roll out last month. (It's compatible with only
certain devices.) We are living in push-notification hell, and Apple Intelligence promises to collapse the incessant stream of notifications
into pithy recaps. Instead of setting your iPhone aside while you shower
and returning to nine texts, four emails, and two calendar alerts, you
can now return to a few brief Apple Intelligence summaries.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/11/apple- intelligence-text-messages/680717/
Iphones are for stupid people.
For a brief moment earlier this month, I thought an old acquaintance had passed away. I was still groggy one morning when I checked my phone to
find a notification delivering the news. "Obituary shared,"ť the message bluntly said, followed by his name. But when I opened my phone, I
learned that he was very much still alive. Apple's latest software
update was to blame: A new feature that uses AI to summarize iPhone notifications had distorted the original text message. It wasn't my acquaintance who had died, but a relative of his. That's whose obituary
I had received.
These notification summaries are perhaps the most visible part of Apple Intelligence, the company's long-awaited suite of AI features, which officially began to roll out last month. (It's compatible with only
certain devices.) We are living in push-notification hell, and Apple Intelligence promises to collapse the incessant stream of notifications
into pithy recaps. Instead of setting your iPhone aside while you shower
and returning to nine texts, four emails, and two calendar alerts, you
can now return to a few brief Apple Intelligence summaries.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/11/apple- intelligence-text-messages/680717/
Iphones are for stupid people.
Iphones are for stupid people.
I've never owned one. Just Samsung. It's what I like.
Joel wrote on Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:09:48 -0500 :
Iphones are for stupid people.
I've never owned one. Just Samsung. It's what I like.
Apple owners are basically ignorant people swayed by brilliant marketing.
None of them even know that Apple has never fully supported more than a single release at a time. Never. They "think" Apple fully supports older releases - which - let's be clear - every other oS vender does.
But not Apple.
Yet Apple owners think they have the best support.
When it turns out, they have the worst support (by far!).
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
While Microsoft has the best full support in the industry, even Google & Samsung promise 7 years of full support while Apple only promises 5.
<https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/technology/personaltech/smartphones-software-update-ios-android.html>
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>
Apple owners only know what Apple marketing fed them to believe.
I own plenty of iPhones, iPads and Android phones (Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc.) where extremely few people understand the real differences between them. Mostly the iPHone can't do anything that Android does.
And yet, there's NOTHING the iPhone can do that Android can't do.
Especially if the Android users decide to log into mainframes out there.
Then there is absolutely nothing the walled garden has over Android.
Nor Windows.
The iPhone is a dumb terminal.
It's not a smart phone at all.
It can't do anything if the user doesn't log into Cupertino mainframes. Nothing.
The mainframe server does all that walled-garden stuff.
The "walled garden" is a euphemism for the "mainframe server concept".
Notwithstanding most Android owners log into Google's Palo Alto mainframes too, at least Android works just fine WITHOUT logging into that mainframe.
Microsoft Windows too.
Since most functionality is from app developers, and since Google can't
limit what developers provide but Apple not only can - but does - there is never going to be any useful functionality on an iPhone that isn't already
on Android - and worse - much worse - there is tons (and tons) of functionality on Android that will never be on the iPhone, e.g.,
app launchers, system firewalls, alternate app repos, wi-fi debuggers,
cellular debuggers, side-by-side OS (like Andronix), automatic call
recording (emphasis on automatic), gps location spoofing, complete
automation, true file system explorers, choices for most default apps,
free youtube players without ads, free search engines that have the
filters you really want, audio controls galore, camera settings that
make sense (and on and on and on where the iPhone is a dumb device).
Even fewer people understand the type of person who stands in long lines outside the Apple store because they can't wait to trade in their old
iPhone (notice that's what they're actually doing!) for a "better" one.
There's a lesson in those words above in the strange psychology of the typical Apple owner. They've been told their entire lives that they're
stupid - but - Apple tells them they're geniuses for standing outside the Apple store all night to get rid of their old iPhone at a fraction of what
it cost them, only to replace it with something that costs twice what it's worth and which can't do anything that Android has done for years.
Worse, Apple doesn't tell them that the iPhone is the most exploited phone
in history - by far - which the government reports reliably every day!
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>
Microsoft being crap too notwithstanding, Apple products are vulnerable:
<https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-49/Apple.html>
For a brief moment earlier this month, I thought an old acquaintance had passed away. I was still groggy one morning when I checked my phone to
find a notification delivering the news. "Obituary shared,"ť the message bluntly said, followed by his name. But when I opened my phone, I
learned that he was very much still alive. Apple's latest software
update was to blame: A new feature that uses AI to summarize iPhone notifications had distorted the original text message. It wasn't my acquaintance who had died, but a relative of his. That's whose obituary
I had received.
These notification summaries are perhaps the most visible part of Apple Intelligence, the company's long-awaited suite of AI features, which officially began to roll out last month. (It's compatible with only
certain devices.) We are living in push-notification hell, and Apple Intelligence promises to collapse the incessant stream of notifications
into pithy recaps. Instead of setting your iPhone aside while you shower
and returning to nine texts, four emails, and two calendar alerts, you
can now return to a few brief Apple Intelligence summaries.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/11/apple- intelligence-text-messages/680717/
Iphones are for stupid people.
While Microsoft has the best full support in the industry ...
While Microsoft has the best full support in the industry ...
But Microsoft don't make any mobile devices.
In any event, I'd really want to see a clear comparison laydown of just
what personal information is really required for using Vendor A vs B
before trying to condemn any one vendor.
For example, for setting up an Android phone, my understanding is that
you're required to provide a Google Account, and to get a Google Account requires providing full name, phone#, date of birth, gender, & location.
Gosh, that sounds to be more obtrusive than Apple...is it?
Microsoft's hotfix support for Windows is the best in the industry.
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.
Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current iterations
just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically,
even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're
kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW.
And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
As I said, my desktop is from 2009 and it runs Windows 10 just fine.
This is well known information as I've posted using it for years.
You have low standards. 10 was great for my machine, built in 2021
with a 10th gen i5 CPU and NVMe storage, but 11 23H2 was already
getting more bloated than I care to use, and I've been solidly with
Linux for the last year. Win10 is a dead end, and the only salvation
for your ancient machine would be Linux.
[Default] Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> typed:
Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current iterations
just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically,
even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're
kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW.
And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
In news:vhos42$308bv$1@news.mixmin.net, Warren <warrenf@gmail.com> typed:
Iphones are for stupid people.
You must mean the type of people who cross-post off-topic news into unrelated newsgroups.
Iphones are for stupid people.
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
It's intereting but only we Linux folks understand iOS well.
The Apple trolls don't know anything about anything - least of all iOS.
Anyway, the Apple owners have no clue their devices are completely
brain dead - they're just dumb terminals - logging into the Cupertino
server mainframes just to do the most basic of tasks like messaging.
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.
M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.
Joel wrote on Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:17:49 -0500 :
As I said, my desktop is from 2009 and it runs Windows 10 just fine.
This is well known information as I've posted using it for years.
You have low standards.
10 was great for my machine, built in 2021
with a 10th gen i5 CPU and NVMe storage, but 11 23H2 was already
getting more bloated than I care to use, and I've been solidly with
Linux for the last year. Win10 is a dead end, and the only salvation
for your ancient machine would be Linux.
I hear you, but I'm an octogenarian who took classes on an IBM 1130 in Fortran IV with card readers (the paper tape reader was still in the elevated-floor computer room but I never used it) and magtape racks.
Linux is fine. What's really nice is awk, sed, grep, etc., though.
But at this point, I'm mostly using Microsoft Office & Paint.NET.
wouldn't let me edit but Ubunto would. Ubuntu is also great for working
with iOS devices since iFuse works around all of Apple's restrictions.
It's intereting but only we Linux folks understand iOS well.
The Apple trolls don't know anything about anything - least of all iOS.
Anyway, the Apple owners have no clue their devices are completely
brain dead - they're just dumb terminals - logging into the Cupertino
server mainframes just to do the most basic of tasks like messaging.
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
It's intereting but only we Linux folks understand iOS well.
The Apple trolls don't know anything about anything - least of all iOS.
Anyway, the Apple owners have no clue their devices are completely
brain dead - they're just dumb terminals - logging into the Cupertino >>server mainframes just to do the most basic of tasks like messaging.
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the >>industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.
In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?
People who like getting value for money.
As I said, my desktop is from 2009 and it runs Windows 10 just fine.
This is well known information as I've posted using it for years.
Joel wrote:
Alan wrote:
Joel wrote:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.
In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?
People who like getting value for money.
The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding >suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Alan wrote:
Joel wrote:
Alan wrote:
Joel wrote:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.
In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?
People who like getting value for money.
They are a fine value, for some fraction of the market.
A very small fraction, sure.The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Some idiots just don't "get" the need for choice, and that all
products that remain viable in a market are, by definition, the "best
value" for some fraction the market.
That includes desktop Linux, of course.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.
In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?
People who like getting value for money.
The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Next.
It suggests that people have disposable income that they put towardAnyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is sucker?
Apple gear, incessantly, it's ridiculous how little storage you get by default with their devices, I had a 1 TB NVMe drive as a part, it's
still going 3 1/2 years later, at the time the iMac or Mac mini
would've had a small amount of storage, and still cost a lot. You're
a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.
Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.
But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
your use of social media ebonics.
I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-23 12:27, Joel wrote:
Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their >>>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent >>>>> that it's Unix.
But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak >>>> your use of social media ebonics.
I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.
You're making my case, yep, people who refuse to learn anything getNot with Apple products.
what they get. Which is paying money. They pay it for tech support, repairs, on and on. I rely on myself, and get incredible value for
the dollar.
Alan wrote:
Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is sucker? >>
Is that your position?
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.
In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?
People who like getting value for money.
The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Next.
It suggests that people have disposable income that they put toward
Apple gear, incessantly, it's ridiculous how little storage you get by
default with their devices, I had a 1 TB NVMe drive as a part, it's
still going 3 1/2 years later, at the time the iMac or Mac mini
would've had a small amount of storage, and still cost a lot. You're
a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.
Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is sucker? >>
Is that your position?
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.
Does Apple charge more for storage and memory upgrades? Absolutely they do. >>
Do people choose to pay for those upgrades because they value the entire
package?
Yup.
Do you think those people are incapable of seeing the difference in
price between Apple's offerings and other devices?
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
What makes their software "crap"?
I have a killer computer, because I'm using modern gear with Linux.
It's the only way to achieve this.
Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-23 13:12, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:Not with Apple products.
On 2024-11-23 12:27, Joel wrote:
Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their >>>>>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent >>>>>>> that it's Unix.
But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak >>>>>> your use of social media ebonics.
I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill >>>> necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.
You're making my case, yep, people who refuse to learn anything get
what they get. Which is paying money. They pay it for tech support,
repairs, on and on. I rely on myself, and get incredible value for
the dollar.
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side
of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
the middleman.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.
In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?
People who like getting value for money.
The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding >>>>>> suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Next.
It suggests that people have disposable income that they put toward
Apple gear, incessantly, it's ridiculous how little storage you get by >>>>> default with their devices, I had a 1 TB NVMe drive as a part, it's
still going 3 1/2 years later, at the time the iMac or Mac mini
would've had a small amount of storage, and still cost a lot. You're >>>>> a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.
Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is sucker?
Is that your position?
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.
How are those two related? "joel"?
Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.
Does Apple charge more for storage and memory upgrades? Absolutely they do.
Do people choose to pay for those upgrades because they value the entire >>>> package?
Yup.
Do you think those people are incapable of seeing the difference in
price between Apple's offerings and other devices?
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
What makes their software "crap"?
I have a killer computer, because I'm using modern gear with Linux.
Not an answer to any of my questions.
It's the only way to achieve this.
Not an answer to any of my questions.
Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.
The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.You paid a price in other ways...
[Default] Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> typed:
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.
Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current iterations
just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically,
even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're
kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW.
And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO
Andrew wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
Microsoft's hotfix support for Windows is the best in the industry.
Arch Linux user: <laughs>
Samsung tablet/phone user: <chuckles>
<redneck groups snipped>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-23 13:12, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:Not with Apple products.
On 2024-11-23 12:27, Joel wrote:
Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their >>>>>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent >>>>>>> that it's Unix.
But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak >>>>>> your use of social media ebonics.
I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill >>>> necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.
You're making my case, yep, people who refuse to learn anything get
what they get. Which is paying money. They pay it for tech support,
repairs, on and on. I rely on myself, and get incredible value for
the dollar.
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side
of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
the middleman.
On 2024-11-23, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:I've run Linux on my home systems since 1995, maybe 1997 I dunno.
On 2024-11-23 13:12, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:Not with Apple products.
On 2024-11-23 12:27, Joel wrote:
Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their >>>>>>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent >>>>>>>> that it's Unix.
But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak >>>>>>> your use of social media ebonics.
I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a >>>>> computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill >>>>> necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.
You're making my case, yep, people who refuse to learn anything get
what they get. Which is paying money. They pay it for tech support,
repairs, on and on. I rely on myself, and get incredible value for
the dollar.
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side
of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
the middleman.
Like most I've tried various distributions but at some point settled on Debian based ones because they tend to have a lot of support and tend
to not break things with updates.
Over the years at least for me Linux has had it's ups and downs. And since
I am a pure end user thus not interested in compiling kernels and such.
Never even tried.
I've never understood the OS wars? To me they make no sense and a case can
be made for any OS depending upon the desires and needs.
Pick your poison and have fun using it.
Klaus Schadenfreude wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
[Default] Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> typed:
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.
Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current iterations
just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically,
even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're
kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW.
And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO
There are far more shitty Windows apps.
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure mySure. And those who are technically versed and willing to spend more
code runs on it as well.
On 2024-11-23 14:06, pothead wrote:
On 2024-11-23, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:I've run Linux on my home systems since 1995, maybe 1997 I dunno.
On 2024-11-23 13:12, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:Not with Apple products.
On 2024-11-23 12:27, Joel wrote:
Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent >>>>>>>>> that it's Unix.
But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
your use of social media ebonics.
I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in >>>>>>> Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a >>>>>> computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill >>>>>> necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.
You're making my case, yep, people who refuse to learn anything get
what they get. Which is paying money. They pay it for tech support, >>>>> repairs, on and on. I rely on myself, and get incredible value for
the dollar.
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side
of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
the middleman.
Like most I've tried various distributions but at some point settled on
Debian based ones because they tend to have a lot of support and tend
to not break things with updates.
Over the years at least for me Linux has had it's ups and downs. And since >> I am a pure end user thus not interested in compiling kernels and such.
Never even tried.
I've never understood the OS wars? To me they make no sense and a case can >> be made for any OS depending upon the desires and needs.
Pick your poison and have fun using it.
And you can certainly run a modern Linux distro without ever compiling a kernel...
...but you will be giving up a lot in terms of the width and depth of software that is available to you.
Some people are fine with that tradeoff.
Many, many times more are not.
I can only tell you what I've observed in 40 years of using, selling and supporting personal computers:
People who use Apple products are almost universally satisfied with them
and continue to buy the over and over once they've started using them.
I can't tell you how many hundreds of people I've either sold a Mac (I
worked selling Apple gear before the iPhone) or recommended to get a
back, but I can tell you the exact total of that group that decided they wanted to go back to using Windows:
2
I entered this conversation because someone suggested Apple is the
"enemy"...
...and that's just so much bullshit.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is sucker?
Is that your position?
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell >>>>> can call Apple victims such.
How are those two related? "joel"?
Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.
OK. So?
Why are YOU using it?
Because I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.
You paid a price in other ways...Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.
The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.
...and you know it.
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
Cost is NOT an answer to that question.
The price I paid in other ways is called using my brain. Apple drones
are sheep. Cost is the answer to the question because not everyone
can afford to purchase these elite devices from Apple, not everyone
would want to either given the goofiness of the OS. Linux is
difficult, I admit, unless one uses Mint casually, but you get so much
more bang for buck.
Microsoft's hotfix support for Windows is the best in the industry.
Arch Linux user: <laughs>
Samsung tablet/phone user: <chuckles>
<redneck groups snipped>
If Microsloth's hotfix was the best, it would be because they get
*plenty* of practice because Windoze needs an update every other day.
Of course, the reality is that Microsloth's hotfix patches are just as hopelessly awful as everything else they do. In this case "practice
does NOT make perfect".
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side
of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
the middleman.
But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
And you may not need it.
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
for you... ...you're just delusional.
Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
Klaus Schadenfreude wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
[Default] Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> typed:
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current iterations >>>> just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost. >>>>
even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're
kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW.
And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO
There are far more shitty Windows apps.
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure my
code runs on it as well.
You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
Trump and guns. Nuff said.
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the >>industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.
I've never understood the OS wars? To me they make no sense and a case can
be made for any OS depending upon the desires and needs.
Pick your poison and have fun using it.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell >>>>>>> can call Apple victims such.
How are those two related? "joel"?
Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.
OK. So?
Why are YOU using it?
Because I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.
Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?
I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.
You paid a price in other ways...Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.
The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.
...and you know it.
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
Cost is NOT an answer to that question.
The price I paid in other ways is called using my brain. Apple drones
are sheep. Cost is the answer to the question because not everyone
can afford to purchase these elite devices from Apple, not everyone
would want to either given the goofiness of the OS. Linux is
difficult, I admit, unless one uses Mint casually, but you get so much
more bang for buck.
Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
Try again.
It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, butSo you're a liar when you call it "crap".
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side >>>>> of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out >>>>> the middleman.
But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
And you may not need it.
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
for you... ...you're just delusional.
Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
Yeah...
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
sucker and a loser...
...right?
It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize.
M$ turned Windows 10 into a beta test of whatThere is nothing magic about Linux that prevents old machines from
became Win11. That means supported versions basically *are* Win11
Light. Needing modern storage, realistically. Idiots with old
desktops and laptops, refusing to think about switching to Linux, are creating landfill and/or third-world flea market material. All they
would have to do is figure out how to install Mint. It's so simple,
but they beLIEve they need M$ or Apple. Just pathetic.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-23 14:51, Joel wrote:
Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
Klaus Schadenfreude wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
[Default] Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> typed:
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current iterations >>>>>> just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically, >>>>>> even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're >>>>>> kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW. >>>>>
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost. >>>>>>
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO
There are far more shitty Windows apps.
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure my
code runs on it as well.
You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
Trump and guns. Nuff said.
Ad hominem.
That was always going to be next for you...
...right?
The ad hominem began with Klaus dissing Linux software.
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.
Different product use cases on uptime requirements. Plus from an IT
Security perspective, isn't there also a trade-off here too?
Anyway, the Apple owners have no clue their devices are completely
brain dead - they're just dumb terminals - logging into the Cupertino
server mainframes just to do the most basic of tasks like messaging.
Odd how much utility these devices still have without WiFi or cellular!
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in theApple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks. >>>
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.
I think they're all the "enemy" to some degree, depending on what you care >> about, specifically with respect to capability & full hotfix support.
Since I came from the corporate world (Redhat for the engineers, MS Windows >> for everyone who did anything & Apple for the marcomms ladies to draw with) >> I started with Centos (closest free Linux to Redhat) but then moved to
Ubuntu (which was the Unity desktop abomination in those days long ago).
Linux does everything you need to do, but it just doesn't have the immense >> software choice that Microsoft enjoys - nor is any given release patched
for, oh, how long has Microsoft Windows been both free & fully supported?
Let's see, my 2009 desktop started as Windows Vista, where I skipped
Windows 8 (as I recall) & upgraded for free to Windows 10 (as I recall).
Since Windows 10 is fully supported for one more year, that's full hotfix
support for about 14 years for me, but Vista released in 2007 so that's
more than a 1-1/2 decades of full hotfix support (which is not the same as >> support - which I know you know - but the Apple trolls never understand
anything outside of a slick (but brilliant) Apple marketing brochure.
Linux is effectively supported longer than 1-1/2 decades, but you can't
complain about Microsoft's full hotfix support when it's that long.
Samsung and Google recently published their full hotfix support length.
It's 7 years and up to 7 releases for both of them.
Apple's full hotfix support is stated as only five years by Apple.
And Apple has never fully supported more than one release in its history.
Those are just facts.
What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much
that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the
Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.
You might get your "hotfixes" from M$, but not real support of your
ancient computer, anything that came with Vista is going to have
painfully slow storage, SATA SSDs are not the miracle that NVMe ones
are, when they're connected to ancient motherboards, or even in
general. M$ doesn't care about you, they want you to buy a whole new
system every few years. My computer was ideal for the Windows 11
upgrade, in 2021, but it would suck if I still had it today, which is
why I've been on Linux for a year.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.
Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac >>>> Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?
I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.
You're still not addressing your claim that the Mac in question is a
"piece of shit".
What a shocker.
Relative to its price.
So you're a liar when you call it "crap".Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
Try again.
It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.
Got it.
Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...
...or is that just more of your bullshit?
The software is where it really gets weird, the goofy Apple-centric interface, it's a fine Unix system under the hood to be sure, but whoThat's not an answer to why you claimed:
cares when Linux is a thing?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell >>>>>>> can call Apple victims such.
How are those two related? "joel"?
Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.
OK. So?
Why are YOU using it?
Because I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.
Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?
I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.
Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.
The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.
You paid a price in other ways...
...and you know it.
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
Cost is NOT an answer to that question.
The price I paid in other ways is called using my brain. Apple drones
are sheep. Cost is the answer to the question because not everyone
can afford to purchase these elite devices from Apple, not everyone
would want to either given the goofiness of the OS. Linux is
difficult, I admit, unless one uses Mint casually, but you get so much
more bang for buck.
Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
Try again.
It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works >>>>>> for you... ...you're just delusional.
Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface. >>>>> If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills >>>>> full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
Yeah...
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
sucker and a loser...
...right?
It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize.
Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
a loser.
In a perfect world, not in the real one.
M$ turned Windows 10 into a beta test of whatThere is nothing magic about Linux that prevents old machines from
became Win11. That means supported versions basically *are* Win11
Light. Needing modern storage, realistically. Idiots with old
desktops and laptops, refusing to think about switching to Linux, are
creating landfill and/or third-world flea market material. All they
would have to do is figure out how to install Mint. It's so simple,
but they beLIEve they need M$ or Apple. Just pathetic.
becoming too slow for modern software.
Linux gives life to old computers. My computer is relatively new, andThat may be an argument for problems in Windows.
still benefits from the advantages of Linux, but it's *essential* on
aging hardware, that chokes on Winblows 10, which is almost out of
support anyway.
Isaac Montara <IsaacMontara@nospam.com> wrote:
Windows 10 released June 2015 so it is supported for over ten years.
Microsoft full hotfix support currently is for two concurrent releases.
It should be noted that Windows 10 in 2015 was nothing, *NOTHING* like
it is now, it was a minor upgrade to Win8.1, initially, but now is practically as bloated as Win11. M$ doesn't care about you.
What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much >>that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the >>Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.
You might get your "hotfixes" from M$, but not real support of your
ancient computer, anything that came with Vista is going to have
painfully slow storage, SATA SSDs are not the miracle that NVMe ones
are, when they're connected to ancient motherboards, or even in
general. M$ doesn't care about you, they want you to buy a whole new
system every few years. My computer was ideal for the Windows 11
upgrade, in 2021, but it would suck if I still had it today, which is
why I've been on Linux for a year.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves >>>>> Trump and guns. Nuff said.
Ad hominem.
That was always going to be next for you...
...right?
The ad hominem began with Klaus dissing Linux software.
Since "ad hominem" means "to the person" dissing Linux software (which
he didn't actually do) cannot be that.
Ah, but there's an implied dis of people who use Linux, in the words ostensibly about software. We're freaks, weirdoes, cheapskates,Ummmm...nope.
losers, etc. And yet my computer easily meets the Winblows 11
requirements, I built it the same year it was released. Linux is just better.
Only assholes ridicule others for their choices. Within reason,
anyway. Some choices are worthy of ridicule, but buying Apple
products sure isn't one of them.
My previous Mac was a 2015 13" MacBook Pro.
<https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-i7-3.1-13-early-2015-retina-display-specs.html>
It shipped with Mac OS X 10.10(.2) Yosemite; released in October 2014.
It was supported up until macOS 12 Monterery; released in October 2021
and which continues to receive updates as recently as July 2024.
It had 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD, and with the exception of reduced >>battery life, worked very well for me over the years.
If you bought that in 2014, it would have cost an incredible sum.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-23 15:49, Joel wrote:
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the >>>>>> industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks. >>>>>Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their >>>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent >>>>> that it's Unix.
I think they're all the "enemy" to some degree, depending on what you care >>>> about, specifically with respect to capability & full hotfix support.
Since I came from the corporate world (Redhat for the engineers, MS Windows
for everyone who did anything & Apple for the marcomms ladies to draw with)
I started with Centos (closest free Linux to Redhat) but then moved to >>>> Ubuntu (which was the Unity desktop abomination in those days long ago). >>>>
Linux does everything you need to do, but it just doesn't have the immense >>>> software choice that Microsoft enjoys - nor is any given release patched >>>> for, oh, how long has Microsoft Windows been both free & fully supported? >>>>
Let's see, my 2009 desktop started as Windows Vista, where I skipped
Windows 8 (as I recall) & upgraded for free to Windows 10 (as I recall). >>>>
Since Windows 10 is fully supported for one more year, that's full hotfix >>>> support for about 14 years for me, but Vista released in 2007 so that's >>>> more than a 1-1/2 decades of full hotfix support (which is not the same as >>>> support - which I know you know - but the Apple trolls never understand >>>> anything outside of a slick (but brilliant) Apple marketing brochure.
Linux is effectively supported longer than 1-1/2 decades, but you can't >>>> complain about Microsoft's full hotfix support when it's that long.
Samsung and Google recently published their full hotfix support length. >>>> It's 7 years and up to 7 releases for both of them.
Apple's full hotfix support is stated as only five years by Apple.
And Apple has never fully supported more than one release in its history. >>>>
Those are just facts.
What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much >>>> that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the >>>> Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.
You might get your "hotfixes" from M$, but not real support of your
ancient computer, anything that came with Vista is going to have
painfully slow storage, SATA SSDs are not the miracle that NVMe ones
are, when they're connected to ancient motherboards, or even in
general. M$ doesn't care about you, they want you to buy a whole new
system every few years. My computer was ideal for the Windows 11
upgrade, in 2021, but it would suck if I still had it today, which is
why I've been on Linux for a year.
My previous Mac was a 2015 13" MacBook Pro.
<https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-i7-3.1-13-early-2015-retina-display-specs.html>
It shipped with Mac OS X 10.10(.2) Yosemite; released in October 2014.
It was supported up until macOS 12 Monterery; released in October 2021
and which continues to receive updates as recently as July 2024.
It had 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD, and with the exception of reduced
battery life, worked very well for me over the years.
If you bought that in 2014, it would have cost an incredible sum.
And to address one point you made specifically:
Why in the hell would Microsoft care if you bought a "whole new system
every few years"?
Because that's what Winblows *is*, a marketing scheme for new
computers. Linux is the OS that supports hardware comprehensively.
Only assholes ridicule others for their choices. Within reason,
anyway. Some choices are worthy of ridicule, but buying Apple
products sure isn't one of them.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-23 15:20, Joel wrote:
Isaac Montara <IsaacMontara@nospam.com> wrote:
Windows 10 released June 2015 so it is supported for over ten years.It should be noted that Windows 10 in 2015 was nothing, *NOTHING* like
Microsoft full hotfix support currently is for two concurrent releases. >>>
it is now, it was a minor upgrade to Win8.1, initially, but now is
practically as bloated as Win11. M$ doesn't care about you.
I'd like to see your support for the claim that:
"it [Windows 10] was a minor upgrade to Win8.1"
Uh, I had Windows 8.x and early Windows 10 on my old computer. I know
what the fuck I'm talking about, that's why I'm reading this thread in
COLA, where we debate OSes.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a >>>>>> sucker and a loser...
...right?
It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize.
Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious. >>>>
You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider >>>> a loser.
In a perfect world, not in the real one.
I see.
In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".
Is that your position?
Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom. I am
the mortal being of the divine.
That may be an argument for problems in Windows.M$ turned Windows 10 into a beta test of whatThere is nothing magic about Linux that prevents old machines from
became Win11. That means supported versions basically *are* Win11
Light. Needing modern storage, realistically. Idiots with old
desktops and laptops, refusing to think about switching to Linux, are >>>>> creating landfill and/or third-world flea market material. All they >>>>> would have to do is figure out how to install Mint. It's so simple, >>>>> but they beLIEve they need M$ or Apple. Just pathetic.
becoming too slow for modern software.
Linux gives life to old computers. My computer is relatively new, and
still benefits from the advantages of Linux, but it's *essential* on
aging hardware, that chokes on Winblows 10, which is almost out of
support anyway.
It's not an argument that only Linux can work well on old hardware.
Oh, if you want to run unsupported Windows versions, sure, you can do
that, but then where are you? It's ludicrous, how Winblows 10 still
pretends you can run it on a single-core, 2 GB RAM, spinning hard
drive, laughable.
some kook wrote:
Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom. I am
the mortal being of the divine.
Yeah...
...you're just an ass.
pothead wrote on Sat, 23 Nov 2024 22:06:55 -0000 (UTC) :
I've never understood the OS wars? To me they make no sense and a case can >> be made for any OS depending upon the desires and needs.
Pick your poison and have fun using it.
I've used all the common consumer operating systems, and I agree that the Linux and Windows and Android systems give the user choice & functionality.
Most of what you refer to as "OS wars" are really from the Apple trolls spewing (brilliant) Apple propaganda such as "it just works" lies.
Try to get a system firewall to "just work" on an iOS device. It just
doesn't work. Same with Wi-Fi & cellular debugging tools. They don't work.
Try to plug in your wired headphones to the expensive Apple gear.
Again, it stands no chance of working.
Interestingly, since I test things as a hobby, try NOT logging into your Apple gear while using it every day - and two years later - like clockwork Apple will unilaterally *brick* your iOS device - where you *must* waltz
into an Apple store to shows your government issue ID just to unlock it. <https://i.postimg.cc/FHKHm9kD/locked01.jpg> Apple requires frequent login <https://i.postimg.cc/WzjsyjPm/locked02.jpg> Some things still work <https://i.postimg.cc/MGC6yVPF/locked03.jpg> But the walled garden stops
The Apple trolls don't know any of this because they only know what Apple's (rather brilliant) marketing feeds them to know (i.e., Apple propaganda).
Ask the next Apple troll you run into if they're logging into the Cupertino mainframe servers every single day of their lives and they'll say "no".
This is a key reason why the "OS wars" (as you call them) occur.
It's like trying to tell a Russian that Ukraine did NOT attack them.
All the Apple trolls know is the (brilliant) propaganda Apple feeds them.
These ignorant Apple trolls don't actually know anything about anything. That's why they dispute everything about every OS - out of sheer ignorance.
Ask them if they're NOT logging into Apple's mainframes every day.
They don't realize their Apple device is nothing more than a dumb terminal.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Why in the hell would Microsoft care if you bought a "whole new system >>>> every few years"?
Because that's what Winblows *is*, a marketing scheme for new
computers. Linux is the OS that supports hardware comprehensively.
And how would such a scheme benefit Microsoft?
They make money from Windows through OEMs, but also gain users of
Office and other software and services. I'm not talking out of my
ass, I ran Win10 on my old computer, and saw how it had metamorphosed.
The very same USB media I used to initially install on my new
computer, but two very different results, in 2021.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
you claimed:
'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
So I'll ask again.
OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
clear enough?
You haven't yet explained WHY it is "junk software".
That much is entirely clear.
It's a toy, it's not serious, I mean you have very specific
applications for macOS that are large, e.g. video editing, but notSo it's "nice hardware", now?
everyone does these things. For the average personal-computer user,
it's just wasted potential, you have this nice hardware running
inferior software, it's powered by Unix to be sure, and has that
potential within it, but most never realize that.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/23/24 6:11 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.
Except that suitability depends on what one's use case is, and it
doesn't matter if we're talking about PCs or cars, or whatever.
So yeah, if you're just drooling on USENET, then a 2017 vintage Mac
laptop would do you perfectly fine ... I'll sell you one for $199.
OTOH, if your work products merit completing them in a timely fashion,
then computers are just like race cars: "Speed cost money. How fast can
you afford to go?"
My CPU is a 2020 model, 10th gen Intel. My motherboard can accept
10th or 11th gen CPUs.
I paid less to get high-end gear.
Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-end" gear?
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'd
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, I have a WD Blue NVMe
drive, quality components through and through. You have to assemble
your own hardware, to get a good value. Apple and other higher-end
OEMs are gouging the crap out of people.
You paid a price in other ways...
...and you know it.
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
Cost is NOT an answer to that question.
The price I paid in other ways is called using my brain. Apple drones >>>>> are sheep. Cost is the answer to the question because not everyone
can afford to purchase these elite devices from Apple, not everyone
would want to either given the goofiness of the OS. Linux is
difficult, I admit, unless one uses Mint casually, but you get so much >>>>> more bang for buck.
Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
Try again.
Seems that Joel's also not factored in his personal costs either, such
as the value of not having to worry about stuff.
I live by my computer. As do a lot of people, who are less techy.
They pay through the nose, for the privilege. I don't.
It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.
Now not saying that you're a cheapskate <g>, but since you've raised
this as a 'cost' based claim, even if you really mean 'value', what's
your objective metrics which support this?
What level of 'high-end' hardware at what initial deployment cost?
And the other factor is ... for how long will it stay in service for?
And since the future is usually very rosy, what's your track record on
your prior hardware lifespans, and at what cost per unit time?
For example, a $1500 PC that's still worth $100 when its 7 years old
works out to $200/year: how does your historical baseline compare to
that which you're being clearly critical of?
I have a 650 watt power supply. I will replace the CPU fan,How is that even relevant to the questions you were just asked?
eventually, that's about the extent of the maintenance to expect.
On 2024-11-23, Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
pothead wrote on Sat, 23 Nov 2024 22:06:55 -0000 (UTC) :
I've never understood the OS wars? To me they make no sense and a case can >>> be made for any OS depending upon the desires and needs.
Pick your poison and have fun using it.
I've used all the common consumer operating systems, and I agree that the
Linux and Windows and Android systems give the user choice & functionality.
Same.
Most of what you refer to as "OS wars" are really from the Apple trolls
spewing (brilliant) Apple propaganda such as "it just works" lies.
Every OS has issues.
There is no exception.
Try to get a system firewall to "just work" on an iOS device. It just
doesn't work. Same with Wi-Fi & cellular debugging tools. They don't work.
The walled garden.
Do it as Apple want or go away.
Try to plug in your wired headphones to the expensive Apple gear.
Again, it stands no chance of working.
Apple keeps redefining connectivity to stay one step ahead of the competition.
It's getting insane.
Interestingly, since I test things as a hobby, try NOT logging into your
Apple gear while using it every day - and two years later - like clockwork >> Apple will unilaterally *brick* your iOS device - where you *must* waltz
into an Apple store to shows your government issue ID just to unlock it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/FHKHm9kD/locked01.jpg> Apple requires frequent login >> <https://i.postimg.cc/WzjsyjPm/locked02.jpg> Some things still work
<https://i.postimg.cc/MGC6yVPF/locked03.jpg> But the walled garden stops
I have not seen this one on my watch and iPhone but I'll take your word for it.
The Apple trolls don't know any of this because they only know what Apple's >> (rather brilliant) marketing feeds them to know (i.e., Apple propaganda).
Sure.
How else can they get drones camping out in front of Apple stores to get the latest release?
It's all hype.
Ask the next Apple troll you run into if they're logging into the Cupertino >> mainframe servers every single day of their lives and they'll say "no".
I doubt they even know if they are.
This is a key reason why the "OS wars" (as you call them) occur.
It's like trying to tell a Russian that Ukraine did NOT attack them.
All the Apple trolls know is the (brilliant) propaganda Apple feeds them.
These ignorant Apple trolls don't actually know anything about anything.
That's why they dispute everything about every OS - out of sheer ignorance. >>
Ask them if they're NOT logging into Apple's mainframes every day.
They don't realize their Apple device is nothing more than a dumb terminal.
Apple users are end user based to the extreme.
They want to unbox their shiny new machine and have it on the netWhy would that be a bad thing?
in 10 minutes or less and honestly Apple does offer that.
Only assholes ridicule others for their choices. Within reason,
anyway. Some choices are worthy of ridicule, but buying Apple
products sure isn't one of them.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Why in the hell would Microsoft care if you bought a "whole new system >>>>>> every few years"?
Because that's what Winblows *is*, a marketing scheme for new
computers. Linux is the OS that supports hardware comprehensively.
And how would such a scheme benefit Microsoft?
They make money from Windows through OEMs, but also gain users of
Trivial amounts perhaps.
I wouldn't call it their primary revenue stream, yeah.
Office and other software and services. I'm not talking out of my
No. A user getting "whole new system" doesn't result in any gain.
Sure it does, they get newer versions of software, too.You need to reexamine who Microsoft currently offers it's software and services.
On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 15:27:44 -0600, chrisv wrote:
Only assholes ridicule others for their choices. Within reason,
anyway. Some choices are worthy of ridicule, but buying Apple
products sure isn't one of them.
Well, it's well known that people habitually trade in iPhones, right?
And that people stand in long lines outside the Apple store, right?
Their choice is clearly that they can't wait to trade in their iPhone,
right? So that they can get rid of last year's model for today's model.
Right?
Personally, if they were getting that new phone for free, then I would NOT ridicule their choice to get rid of their old phone as soon as they could.
And, personally, if they were getting full price on that old iPhone such
that a new iPhone cost absolutely nothing, again I would NOT ridicule them.
But... if they're actually waiting on long lines outside the Apple store
not only to ditch last year's iPhone at a fraction of what they paid for
it, but also to buy that new iPhone at two or three times its value...
Then....
Then I'd ridicule their choices.
Rightly so.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-23 17:18, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-23 15:20, Joel wrote:
Isaac Montara <IsaacMontara@nospam.com> wrote:
Windows 10 released June 2015 so it is supported for over ten years. >>>>>> Microsoft full hotfix support currently is for two concurrent releases. >>>>>It should be noted that Windows 10 in 2015 was nothing, *NOTHING* like >>>>> it is now, it was a minor upgrade to Win8.1, initially, but now is
practically as bloated as Win11. M$ doesn't care about you.
I'd like to see your support for the claim that:
"it [Windows 10] was a minor upgrade to Win8.1"
Uh, I had Windows 8.x and early Windows 10 on my old computer. I know
what the fuck I'm talking about, that's why I'm reading this thread in
COLA, where we debate OSes.
So what you have is purely a personal anecdote.
Got it.
No, it's not an anecdote.
I was a comp sci major, while I was inThat is precisely what a personal anecdote is.
college. I pay attention to finer details. I know what Windows 10
was in 2015, vs. 2020 and later.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/23/24 11:35 AM, Andrew wrote:
Joel wrote on Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:17:49 -0500 :
As I said, my desktop is from 2009 and it runs Windows 10 just fine. >>>>> This is well known information as I've posted using it for years.
You have low standards.
It merely depends on what & where one chooses to make a priority.
I saw 20H2 on my old machine, assembled in 2010, first gen i5. I
never even got to the point of installing it on an SSD for it, I had
given up on the idea for other reasons by then. Mint was great,
briefly, on the SSD, I had the system as refreshed as could be, maxed
at 16 GB RAM with a SATA SSD, great old machine for Linux, but Win10
would've sucked even with all that.
On 11/23/2024 12:58 PM, -hh wrote:
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.
Different product use cases on uptime requirements. Plus from an IT
Security perspective, isn't there also a trade-off here too?
Why do iPhones always have more 0-day holes than Android if it's so secure? https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/23/24 6:11 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.
Except that suitability depends on what one's use case is, and it
doesn't matter if we're talking about PCs or cars, or whatever.
So yeah, if you're just drooling on USENET, then a 2017 vintage Mac
laptop would do you perfectly fine ... I'll sell you one for $199.
OTOH, if your work products merit completing them in a timely fashion,
then computers are just like race cars: "Speed cost money. How fast can
you afford to go?"
My CPU is a 2020 model, 10th gen Intel. My motherboard can accept
10th or 11th gen CPUs.
I paid less to get high-end gear.
Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-end" gear?
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'd
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
... I have a WD Blue NVMe drive, quality components through and through.
You have to assemble
your own hardware, to get a good value. Apple and other higher-end
OEMs are gouging the crap out of people.
You paid a price in other ways...
...and you know it.
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
Cost is NOT an answer to that question.
The price I paid in other ways is called using my brain. Apple drones >>>>> are sheep. Cost is the answer to the question because not everyone
can afford to purchase these elite devices from Apple, not everyone
would want to either given the goofiness of the OS. Linux is
difficult, I admit, unless one uses Mint casually, but you get so much >>>>> more bang for buck.
Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
Try again.
Seems that Joel's also not factored in his personal costs either, such
as the value of not having to worry about stuff.
I live by my computer. As do a lot of people, who are less techy.
They pay through the nose, for the privilege. I don't.
It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.
Now not saying that you're a cheapskate <g>, but since you've raised
this as a 'cost' based claim, even if you really mean 'value', what's
your objective metrics which support this?
What level of 'high-end' hardware at what initial deployment cost?
And the other factor is ... for how long will it stay in service for?
And since the future is usually very rosy, what's your track record on
your prior hardware lifespans, and at what cost per unit time?
For example, a $1500 PC that's still worth $100 when its 7 years old
works out to $200/year: how does your historical baseline compare to
that which you're being clearly critical of?
I have a 650 watt power supply. I will replace the CPU fan,
eventually, that's about the extent of the maintenance to expect.
Alan wrote:
Joel wrote:
Alan wrote:
Joel wrote:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.
In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?
People who like getting value for money.
They are a fine value, for some fraction of the market.
The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Some idiots just don't "get" the need for choice, and that all
products that remain viable in a market are, by definition, the "best
value" for some fraction the market.
That includes desktop Linux, of course.
I've used all the common consumer operating systems, and I agree that the
Linux and Windows and Android systems give the user choice & functionality.
Same.
Most of what you refer to as "OS wars" are really from the Apple trolls
spewing (brilliant) Apple propaganda such as "it just works" lies.
Every OS has issues.
There is no exception.
Try to get a system firewall to "just work" on an iOS device. It just
doesn't work. Same with Wi-Fi & cellular debugging tools. They don't work.
The walled garden.
Do it as Apple want or go away.
Try to plug in your wired headphones to the expensive Apple gear.
Again, it stands no chance of working.
Apple keeps redefining connectivity to stay one step ahead of the competition.
It's getting insane.
Interestingly, since I test things as a hobby, try NOT logging into your
Apple gear while using it every day - and two years later - like clockwork >> Apple will unilaterally *brick* your iOS device - where you *must* waltz
into an Apple store to shows your government issue ID just to unlock it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/FHKHm9kD/locked01.jpg> Apple requires frequent login >> <https://i.postimg.cc/WzjsyjPm/locked02.jpg> Some things still work
<https://i.postimg.cc/MGC6yVPF/locked03.jpg> But the walled garden stops
I have not seen this one on my watch and iPhone but I'll take your word for it.
The Apple trolls don't know any of this because they only know what Apple's >> (rather brilliant) marketing feeds them to know (i.e., Apple propaganda).
Sure.
How else can they get drones camping out in front of Apple stores to get the latest release?
It's all hype.
Ask the next Apple troll you run into if they're logging into the Cupertino >> mainframe servers every single day of their lives and they'll say "no".
I doubt they even know if they are.
This is a key reason why the "OS wars" (as you call them) occur.
It's like trying to tell a Russian that Ukraine did NOT attack them.
All the Apple trolls know is the (brilliant) propaganda Apple feeds them.
These ignorant Apple trolls don't actually know anything about anything.
That's why they dispute everything about every OS - out of sheer ignorance. >>
Ask them if they're NOT logging into Apple's mainframes every day.
They don't realize their Apple device is nothing more than a dumb terminal.
Apple users are end user based to the extreme.
They want to unbox their shiny new machine and have it on the net
in 10 minutes or less and honestly Apple does offer that.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 11:07:53 +1300, Your Name wrote:
Microsoft's hotfix support for Windows is the best in the industry.
Arch Linux user: <laughs>
Samsung tablet/phone user: <chuckles>
<redneck groups snipped>
If Microsloth's hotfix was the best, it would be because they get
*plenty* of practice because Windoze needs an update every other day.
Of course, the reality is that Microsloth's hotfix patches are just as
hopelessly awful as everything else they do. In this case "practice
does NOT make perfect".
Windows 10 released June 2015 so it is supported for over ten years. Microsoft full hotfix support currently is for two concurrent releases.
Samsung & Google full hotfix support is 7 years, up to seven releases. Apple's hotfix support is never more than one release at a time, 5 years.
Simple question. Which of those is the shortest & least number of releases?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
you claimed:
'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
So I'll ask again.
OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
clear enough?
You haven't yet explained WHY it is "junk software".
That much is entirely clear.
It's a toy, it's not serious, I mean you have very specific
In what way is it "not serious"?
They just aren't very good programmers, they don't have M$'s elaborate
motif.
applications for macOS that are large, e.g. video editing, but notSo it's "nice hardware", now?
everyone does these things. For the average personal-computer user,
it's just wasted potential, you have this nice hardware running
inferior software, it's powered by Unix to be sure, and has that
potential within it, but most never realize that.
You called it "crap hardware" just a very short while ago.
Try again.
It's crap relative to cost, not poor quality.Dodge and weave...
On 11/23/24 3:18 PM, chrisv wrote:
Alan wrote:
Joel wrote:
Alan wrote:
Joel wrote:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.
In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?
People who like getting value for money.
They are a fine value, for some fraction of the market.
The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely
outstanding suggests that people think they offer excellent value
for money.
Some idiots just don't "get" the need for choice, and that all
products that remain viable in a market are, by definition, the "best
value" for some fraction the market.
Agreed. By a 'some fraction of the market' metric, marketshare shows
that on the desktop, Apple provides a healthy amount of choice (and
value) versus Microsoft.
Its been years since I've even bothered to look these up:
Worldwide marketshares of desktop OSs is 73% Win - 16% Mac
(remaining 10% is Chrome+Linux+Unknown, roughly evenly split).
Similarly, for USA, its 62% Win - 25% Mac.
Source:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/#monthly-2 >02310-202410>
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/united-states-of-ame >rica/#monthly-202310-202410>
That includes desktop Linux, of course.
Pedantically sure, but at just 4% (& dropped to 4th place overall),
desktop Linux is pragmatically almost irrelevant.
On 2024-11-23 14:05, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Klaus Schadenfreude wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
[Default] Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> typed:
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current iterations >>>> just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost. >>>>
even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're
kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW.
And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO
There are far more shitty Windows apps.
When there are far more apps overall, there are going to be more shitty
ones as well.
:-)
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure mySure. And those who are technically versed and willing to spend more
code runs on it as well.
time on setting up the system can use Linux and be happy.
On 23 Nov 2024, -hh wrote:
...
Agreed. By a 'some fraction of the market' metric, marketshare shows
that on the desktop, Apple provides a healthy amount of choice (and
value) versus Microsoft.
Its been years since I've even bothered to look these up:
Worldwide marketshares of desktop OSs is 73% Win - 16% Mac
(remaining 10% is Chrome+Linux+Unknown, roughly evenly split).
Similarly, for USA, its 62% Win - 25% Mac.
...
That includes desktop Linux, of course.
Pedantically sure, but at just 4% (& dropped to 4th place overall),
desktop Linux is pragmatically almost irrelevant.
Not if your applications are web served, then the desktop platform becomes irrelevant.
There's little difference between Windows and Linux in that
sense. On the flip side, Apple's crappy Safari browser won't work well
with some major CRM platforms and results in Firefox or Chrome
installations just so people can work.
On 23 Nov 2024, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> posted some news:vhu5jl$2348d$1@dont-email.me:
On 11/23/24 3:18 PM, chrisv wrote:
Alan wrote:
Joel wrote:
Alan wrote:
Joel wrote:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.
In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?
People who like getting value for money.
They are a fine value, for some fraction of the market.
The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely
outstanding suggests that people think they offer excellent value
for money.
Some idiots just don't "get" the need for choice, and that all
products that remain viable in a market are, by definition, the "best
value" for some fraction the market.
Agreed. By a 'some fraction of the market' metric, marketshare shows
that on the desktop, Apple provides a healthy amount of choice (and
value) versus Microsoft.
Its been years since I've even bothered to look these up:
Worldwide marketshares of desktop OSs is 73% Win - 16% Mac
(remaining 10% is Chrome+Linux+Unknown, roughly evenly split).
Similarly, for USA, its 62% Win - 25% Mac.
Source:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/#monthly-2 >02310-202410>
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/united-states-of-ame >rica/#monthly-202310-202410>
That includes desktop Linux, of course.
Pedantically sure, but at just 4% (& dropped to 4th place overall),
desktop Linux is pragmatically almost irrelevant.
Not if your applications are web served, then the desktop platform becomes irrelevant. There's little difference between Windows and Linux in that sense. On the flip side, Apple's crappy Safari browser won't work well
with some major CRM platforms and results in Firefox or Chrome
installations just so people can work.
Alan wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On 2024-11-23 14:05, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Klaus Schadenfreude wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
[Default] Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> typed:
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current iterations >>>>> just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically, >>>>> even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost. >>>>>
kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW.
And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO
There are far more shitty Windows apps.
When there are far more apps overall, there are going to be more shitty
ones as well.
:-)
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure mySure. And those who are technically versed and willing to spend more
code runs on it as well.
time on setting up the system can use Linux and be happy.
You can buy computers with Linux pre-installed, e.g. from System76.
But hey, stick with Windows if you want. Just don't slag on people who
use Linux.
On 23 Nov 2024, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> posted some news:vhu5jl$2348d$1@dont-email.me:
On 11/23/24 3:18 PM, chrisv wrote:
Alan wrote:
Joel wrote:
Alan wrote:
Joel wrote:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.
In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?
People who like getting value for money.
They are a fine value, for some fraction of the market.
The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely
outstanding suggests that people think they offer excellent value
for money.
Some idiots just don't "get" the need for choice, and that all
products that remain viable in a market are, by definition, the "best
value" for some fraction the market.
Agreed. By a 'some fraction of the market' metric, marketshare shows
that on the desktop, Apple provides a healthy amount of choice (and
value) versus Microsoft.
Its been years since I've even bothered to look these up:
Worldwide marketshares of desktop OSs is 73% Win - 16% Mac
(remaining 10% is Chrome+Linux+Unknown, roughly evenly split).
Similarly, for USA, its 62% Win - 25% Mac.
Source:
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/#monthly-2
02310-202410>
<https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/united-states-of-ame
rica/#monthly-202310-202410>
That includes desktop Linux, of course.
Pedantically sure, but at just 4% (& dropped to 4th place overall),
desktop Linux is pragmatically almost irrelevant.
Not if your applications are web served, then the desktop platform becomes irrelevant. There's little difference between Windows and Linux in that sense. On the flip side, Apple's crappy Safari browser won't work well
with some major CRM platforms and results in Firefox or Chrome
installations just so people can work.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/23/24 8:13 PM, Joel wrote:
I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank >>>>> to get what I have.
Except that suitability depends on what one's use case is, and it
doesn't matter if we're talking about PCs or cars, or whatever.
So yeah, if you're just drooling on USENET, then a 2017 vintage Mac
laptop would do you perfectly fine ... I'll sell you one for $199.
OTOH, if your work products merit completing them in a timely fashion, >>>> then computers are just like race cars: "Speed cost money. How fast can >>>> you afford to go?"
My CPU is a 2020 model, 10th gen Intel. My motherboard can accept
10th or 11th gen CPUs.
A "10th gen" Intel CPU would be 'Comet Lake' and there's many variations
therein .. from an Xeon or i9 all the way down to Celeron (its below the
i3 and Pentium Gold) .. so which one does your "high-end" system have?
Here's the list:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Lake>
And how does it benchmark against the Mac Studio that you've mentioned?
I'll cut you a break by choosing the lowest end CPU ever sold in the
Studio: the M1 Max cored 2,418 single-core and 12,629 for multi-core in
the Geekbench 6 CPU Benchmark. FYI, the current model with the upper
tier M2 Ultra is single-core 2,819 & multi-core 21,802.
It's an i5-10400, not the most high-end piece of the puzzle, that'd be
the motherboard and power supply about equally so, but for my purposes
it's as good as I really need. And could be replaced with an 11th gen
i7, for example, without needing a different motherboard, although I'd
need RAM to match it, too.
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'dI paid less to get high-end gear.
Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-end" gear? >>>
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics
which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4?
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/23/24 8:13 PM, Joel wrote:
I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank >>>>> to get what I have.
Except that suitability depends on what one's use case is, and it
doesn't matter if we're talking about PCs or cars, or whatever.
So yeah, if you're just drooling on USENET, then a 2017 vintage Mac
laptop would do you perfectly fine ... I'll sell you one for $199.
OTOH, if your work products merit completing them in a timely fashion, >>>> then computers are just like race cars: "Speed cost money. How fast can >>>> you afford to go?"
My CPU is a 2020 model, 10th gen Intel. My motherboard can accept
10th or 11th gen CPUs.
A "10th gen" Intel CPU would be 'Comet Lake' and there's many variations
therein .. from an Xeon or i9 all the way down to Celeron (its below the
i3 and Pentium Gold) .. so which one does your "high-end" system have?
Here's the list:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Lake>
And how does it benchmark against the Mac Studio that you've mentioned?
I'll cut you a break by choosing the lowest end CPU ever sold in the
Studio: the M1 Max cored 2,418 single-core and 12,629 for multi-core in
the Geekbench 6 CPU Benchmark. FYI, the current model with the upper
tier M2 Ultra is single-core 2,819 & multi-core 21,802.
It's an i5-10400, not the most high-end piece of the puzzle, that'd be
the motherboard and power supply about equally so, but for my purposes
it's as good as I really need.
And could be replaced with an 11th gen
i7, for example, without needing a different motherboard, although I'd
need RAM to match it, too.
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'dI paid less to get high-end gear.
Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-end" gear? >>>
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics
which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4?
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
... I have a WD Blue NVMe drive, quality components through and through.
I think you mentioned that its 1TB, right? And since you didn't mention
it, I'm assuming the motherboard has it as a PCI4 single slot, so no
boot drive RAID0 configuration. So then what does that benchmark at in,
say, Blackmagic's Disk Speed Test software?
How much above 7,000 MB/sec does it run while comparing it to the
Studio? After all, you did claim "high-end", so you certainly must have
done some confirmation testing rather than to just "trust me" assume.
It's one of the better models from its time, there certainly are
faster models today with today's motherboards.
You have to assemble
your own hardware, to get a good value. Apple and other higher-end
OEMs are gouging the crap out of people.
There are some profit-centers to avoid for sure, but the adage of a DIY
"White Box" generic PCs must always be profoundly cheaper is obsolete:
a former (now retired) colleague used to run a side business where he
fabricated "White Box" generic PCs to sell at a discount, but he shut
down that business close to 20 years ago now, because he found that the
competition within the OEM's resulted in narrow enough margins such that
he wasn't really making money for his efforts...IIRC, he shut it down
when it dropped below $50/unit for all of his assembly time.
To get my computer, at the time I bought the parts, preassembled,
would cost a fortune.
To get a seemingly comparable one, you'd at best get some less than comparable parts. The only way to maximize value is to self-assemble.
On 2024-11-24 11:39, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I paid less to get high-end gear.
Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-
end" gear?
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'd >>>>>> get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics >>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4?
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid more >>> for a name(!).
The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
durability and quality.
You're the one who literally said:
"bragging rights".
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'd >>>>> get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...I paid less to get high-end gear.
Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-end" gear? >>>>>
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics
which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4?
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid more
for a name(!).
The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
durability and quality.
On 11/24/24 3:21 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-11-24 11:39, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for theI paid less to get high-end gear.
Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high- >>>>>>>> end" gear?
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that
you'd
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics >>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4? >>>>>
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid more >>>> for a name(!).
The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
durability and quality.
You're the one who literally said:
"bragging rights".
While also snipping a whole bunch of other objective metrics.Funny that, ain't it?
Gosh, it musta been another "accident"...
...instead of a tacit admission through avoidance that he knows that he
can't support his assertion that he made a rational product decision.
Not if your applications are web served, then the desktop platform becomes >> irrelevant.
Sure, but the market still isn't buying thin client PCs.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-24 11:39, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for theI have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'd >>>>>>> get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics >>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4? >>>>>
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid more >>>> for a name(!).
The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
durability and quality.
You're the one who literally said:
"bragging rights".
Yeah, but not about the name, about how good equipment I selected.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/24/24 3:21 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-11-24 11:39, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for theI paid less to get high-end gear.
Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high- >>>>>>>>> end" gear?
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'd >>>>>>>> get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics >>>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4? >>>>>>
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid more >>>>> for a name(!).
The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
durability and quality.
You're the one who literally said:
"bragging rights".
While also snipping a whole bunch of other objective metrics.
Gosh, it musta been another "accident"...
...instead of a tacit admission through avoidance that he knows that he
can't support his assertion that he made a rational product decision.
Incorrect. I don't care about benchmarks. I care about having a
modern, reliable, functional system. And not breaking the bank to get
it. Apple and M$ are endlessly requiring upgrades.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-24 11:40, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:Show me an example of such a post.
On 2024-11-24 04:59, Joel wrote:Uh huh, like Apple drones don't brag about their purchases, give me a
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/23/24 8:13 PM, Joel wrote:It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'd >>>>>>> get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics >>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4? >>>>>
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
"bragging rights" says all I really need to know about your "edgy" self. >>>
break, they lord it over people, oh look at me affording Apple, la la
la, such garbage.
I've seen folks such as yourself claim it...
...but I don't believe I've ever seen it.
On IRC, a guy who's a professional photographer uses Photoshop and
other Adobe apps under macOS, talks smack about Linux and GIMP. Acts
like it's so elite to use a Mac, I had Windows 11 Pro retail, I had
Photoshop still active when I got rid of it, because I wanted Linux.
That's how much advantage one gets with Linux.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Not if your applications are web served, then the desktop platform becomes >>> irrelevant.
Sure, but the market still isn't buying thin client PCs.
The iOS iPhone/iPad is a "thin-client" PC by the very definition that it requires logging into Apple's mainframe servers to do anything useful.
Try to get an app without logging into Apple's mainframe servers, for example, or try to use messaging the way you like or Facetime or almost anything inside of Apple's mainframe walled garden. It just won't work.
Google designed Chrome OS to be a carbon copy of Apple's iOS.
There's no difference between iOS & Chrome OS in any meaningful way.
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
OS: Debian 12, with Wine 9.0 for WinAPI
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Show me an example of such a post.
Uh huh, like Apple drones don't brag about their purchases, give me a >>>>>> break, they lord it over people, oh look at me affording Apple, la la >>>>>> la, such garbage.
I've seen folks such as yourself claim it...
...but I don't believe I've ever seen it.
On IRC, a guy who's a professional photographer uses Photoshop and
other Adobe apps under macOS, talks smack about Linux and GIMP. Acts
like it's so elite to use a Mac, I had Windows 11 Pro retail, I had
Photoshop still active when I got rid of it, because I wanted Linux.
That's how much advantage one gets with Linux.
Wow. One guy and the claims you make about what he's said can't be checked. >>>
Colour me shocked.
And how does what you decided to stop paying for prove ANY advantage for >>> Linux?
The advantage is that I'm not roped to Microsoft's bloatware OS. I
can do my work with a sensible OS, Linux.
Notice, I'm even using the best GUI newsreader, Forte Agent, withoutSo you use WiNE...
needing Windows. It's the primary reason I use Wine, although EncSpot
is another great tool, which works well under it. No need for a VM,
no need to boot M$. I have Copilot, as a Web app, no need for Win11.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-24 13:03, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-24 11:40, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:Show me an example of such a post.
On 2024-11-24 04:59, Joel wrote:Uh huh, like Apple drones don't brag about their purchases, give me a >>>>> break, they lord it over people, oh look at me affording Apple, la la >>>>> la, such garbage.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/23/24 8:13 PM, Joel wrote:It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'd >>>>>>>>> get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics >>>>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4? >>>>>>>
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
"bragging rights" says all I really need to know about your "edgy" self. >>>>>
I've seen folks such as yourself claim it...
...but I don't believe I've ever seen it.
On IRC, a guy who's a professional photographer uses Photoshop and
other Adobe apps under macOS, talks smack about Linux and GIMP. Acts
like it's so elite to use a Mac, I had Windows 11 Pro retail, I had
Photoshop still active when I got rid of it, because I wanted Linux.
That's how much advantage one gets with Linux.
Wow. One guy and the claims you make about what he's said can't be checked. >>
Colour me shocked.
And how does what you decided to stop paying for prove ANY advantage for
Linux?
The advantage is that I'm not roped to Microsoft's bloatware OS. I
can do my work with a sensible OS, Linux.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Notice, I'm even using the best GUI newsreader, Forte Agent, withoutSo you use WiNE...
needing Windows. It's the primary reason I use Wine, although EncSpot
is another great tool, which works well under it. No need for a VM,
no need to boot M$. I have Copilot, as a Web app, no need for Win11.
...so you can run Windows software (well, some of it).
Methinks thou dost...
Most of my software is native Linux.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
And how does what you decided to stop paying for prove ANY advantage for >>>> Linux?
The advantage is that I'm not roped to Microsoft's bloatware OS. I
can do my work with a sensible OS, Linux.
That didn't actually answer my question.
Of course, that's pretty much your MO, so...
It's not about money, is the thing. That's all imaginary. It's about production. I flushed the money I spent on Win10/11 and Photoshop,This is sounding a lot more like a cult thing with you...
and Norton for that matter, it's all a write-off, because I wanted to
stop poisoning my precious computer with corporate crapware.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/24/24 3:21 PM, Alan wrote:
...
You're the one who literally said:
"bragging rights".
While also snipping a whole bunch of other objective metrics.
Gosh, it musta been another "accident"...
...instead of a tacit admission through avoidance that he knows that he
can't support his assertion that he made a rational product decision.
Incorrect. I don't care about benchmarks.
I care about having a modern, reliable, functional system. And not
breaking the bank to get it. Apple and M$ are endlessly requiring upgrades.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
he [JWC] knows that he
can't support his assertion that he made a rational product decision.
Incorrect. I don't care about benchmarks.
But you're trying to make comparisons of different products, so you need
to have some objective methodology to assess each one's relative value.
Without that, you're just making a blind "Oranges vs Kiwis" comparison
without knowing what either fruit even tastes like.
I'm not doing data processing, I'm using a computer as an Internet
portal, music player, that kind of thing. macOS and Winblows are
grossly inferior to Linux, for my purposes.
I care about having a modern, reliable, functional system. And not
breaking the bank to get it. Apple and M$ are endlessly requiring upgrades.
Just what upgrades are these which you're referring to? Be specific.
Because Apple has been criticized for the past ~decade because most of
their Macs' hardware is no longer user-upgradable, which makes your
claim effectively impossible.
In any event, I've already looked at what info you've provided and noted
how CPU & RAM performance levels are roughly half of what you chose to
compare them against: how much would it cost you to upgrade your
current system to have double the performance on these two metrics?
Not that you personally need it, but to determine if your claim that a
Studio was overpriced truely is due to brand, not hardware specs.
The upgrade is of the whole system, yes, that's the point. LandfillsIs it?
and third-world countries receive the wasted corporate crapware
systems. Whereas my box is still virtually brand new, to me.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Not if your applications are web served, then the desktop platform
becomes irrelevant.
Sure, but the market still isn't buying thin client PCs.
The iOS iPhone/iPad is a "thin-client" PC by the very definition that
it requires logging into Apple's mainframe servers to do anything
useful.
Try to get an app without logging into Apple's mainframe servers, for example, or try to use messaging the way you like or Facetime or
almost anything inside of Apple's mainframe walled garden. It just
won't work.
Google designed Chrome OS to be a carbon copy of Apple's iOS.
There's no difference between iOS & Chrome OS in any meaningful way.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Notice, I'm even using the best GUI newsreader, Forte Agent, without >>>>> needing Windows. It's the primary reason I use Wine, although EncSpot >>>>> is another great tool, which works well under it. No need for a VM, >>>>> no need to boot M$. I have Copilot, as a Web app, no need for Win11. >>>> So you use WiNE...
...so you can run Windows software (well, some of it).
Methinks thou dost...
Most of my software is native Linux.
Sure.
I notice you automatically declare anything YOU use to be "the best".
It's fairly self-evident that Forte Agent is the best GUI newsreader.
It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft OfficeOHHHHH!
are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I flushed the money I spent on Win10/11 and Photoshop,This is sounding a lot more like a cult thing with you...
and Norton for that matter, it's all a write-off, because I wanted to
stop poisoning my precious computer with corporate crapware.
I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm not doing data processing, I'm using a computer as an Internet
portal, music player, that kind of thing. macOS and Winblows are
grossly inferior to Linux, for my purposes.
In what specific way is macOS "grossly inferior"?
Having to purchase it at Apple's prices.
Having to use inferior
software.
The upgrade is of the whole system, yes, that's the point. LandfillsIs it?
and third-world countries receive the wasted corporate crapware
systems. Whereas my box is still virtually brand new, to me.
Even my previous 2010-assembled computer would be pretty decent, withNot addressing the question I asked.
Linux. Not with Win10.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft OfficeOHHHHH!
are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it.
It's the fact that the OS is COMMERCIAL that's important, is it?
It wouldn't be, if M$ and Apple weren't just about getting more and
more money. The way Microsoft pretends that Windows 10 today is still
the same thing, as it was when it was first released in 2015, is just ridiculous. People using these ancient computers with it. It's a
farce.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and "commercial".
Not when such abuse me, right.How does someone selling a product "abuse" you?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and "commercial".
Not when such abuse me, right.
On 2024-11-24 16:23, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft OfficeOHHHHH!
are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it.
It's the fact that the OS is COMMERCIAL that's important, is it?
It wouldn't be, if M$ and Apple weren't just about getting more and
more money. The way Microsoft pretends that Windows 10 today is still
the same thing, as it was when it was first released in 2015, is just
ridiculous. People using these ancient computers with it. It's a
farce.
And now I understand your religion.
Apple doesn't charge a cent for its OS, doofus.
And the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Have you actually upgraded your current system?
Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basicAnd how have those upgrades actually benefited you?
NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft Office >>>>> are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it.OHHHHH!
It's the fact that the OS is COMMERCIAL that's important, is it?
It wouldn't be, if M$ and Apple weren't just about getting more and
more money. The way Microsoft pretends that Windows 10 today is still
the same thing, as it was when it was first released in 2015, is just
ridiculous. People using these ancient computers with it. It's a
farce.
And now I understand your religion.
Apple doesn't charge a cent for its OS, doofus.
Doesn't matter, you have to have their hardware to use it.
And the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old.
Oh wow, six years, that's an eternity ...No... ...not an eternity.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
How does someone selling a product "abuse" you?Not when such abuse me, right.I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and "commercial". >>>
Do you even hear yourself?
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a fanatic
23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
And how have those upgrades actually benefited you?Have you actually upgraded your current system?
Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic
NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
You've described your use of the computer as:
'Internet portal, music player, that kind of thing.'
So do you NEED a better video subsystem for that?
I found that the Intel CPU video was weak for my 4K monitor, that I
got subsequent to assembling the computer, originally I kept using my
old 1080p monitor.
Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
Is Linux really that bad?
I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for
any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft Office >>>>>>> are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it. >>>>>> OHHHHH!
It's the fact that the OS is COMMERCIAL that's important, is it?
It wouldn't be, if M$ and Apple weren't just about getting more and
more money. The way Microsoft pretends that Windows 10 today is still >>>>> the same thing, as it was when it was first released in 2015, is just >>>>> ridiculous. People using these ancient computers with it. It's a
farce.
And now I understand your religion.
Apple doesn't charge a cent for its OS, doofus.
Doesn't matter, you have to have their hardware to use it.
Which you've admitted is good hardware.
Relatively, yes.
No... ...not an eternity.And the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old. >>>Oh wow, six years, that's an eternity ...
But likely longer than most people want to keep one computer.
You're making my case for me, not everyone is upper-middle class, to
afford these pricey Apple systems every few years.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
And how have those upgrades actually benefited you?Have you actually upgraded your current system?
Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic >>>>> NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
You've described your use of the computer as:
'Internet portal, music player, that kind of thing.'
So do you NEED a better video subsystem for that?
I found that the Intel CPU video was weak for my 4K monitor, that I
got subsequent to assembling the computer, originally I kept using my
old 1080p monitor.
So your judgment about computer systems seems flawed from the word go,
as you describe the monitor in a way that suggests that you had it when
you bought the system.
Didn't do your research very well, huh?
What? When I built the computer, the old monitor was still in use.
Later, I bought a 4K monitor. The CPU's video handled it but barely,
the NVIDIA card made it work more smoothly.
Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
Is Linux really that bad?
I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for
any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.
I currently have 25 Safari windows open with a total of 273 tabs, as
well as Thunderbird, Apple Mail, Microsoft Teams, Calendar, Finder....
...and I'll open up all three Microsoft Office main apps (Word, Excel,
PowerPoint)...
...and with all of that I'm still only at 2/3 on the "Memory Pressure"
graph in Activity Monitor (which, of course, is also open; oh, and
Script Editor to perform the count of open Safari tabs)...
...and that's with just 16GB of RAM.
I don't know how to analyze that in some conclusive way. I just know
that with 32 GB, I rarely even use one byte of swap.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No... ...not an eternity.the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old. >>>>>Oh wow, six years, that's an eternity ...
But likely longer than most people want to keep one computer.
You're making my case for me, not everyone is upper-middle class, to
afford these pricey Apple systems every few years.
Are you kidding? Amortize over just 4 years, my new MacBook Air M3 will
cost me $50/month, all in (including 12% sales tax).
And that was hardly the least expensive choice that was available.
You don't have to be "upper-middle class" to afford $50 a month for an
essential tool of modern life.
Laptops are not really comparable to what I'd be into, Apple's Mac
mini and Studio models are inferior for the cost, compared to self- assembling a desktop. And I know, not everyone wants to build
computers, I get it, but FFS you sacrifice so much of either quality
or money, if you don't do this. The value of my machine is
unbelievable. I'm a relatively poor person with a great box, because
I used the money so intelligently.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs. >>>>> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same >>>>> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without >>>>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a fanatic >>>> I sound like".
I am a fanatic, definitely. Fanatically, I can't believe what M$ did
to Windows 10 victims. And what they're already doing with Win11.
It's a joke. They're making Linux the obvious solution, but people
just won't see that, and put up with the hassle of using Winblows on
aging hardware.
Or they could just get a Mac.
Probably, Apple's support would be better than M$'s. I grant that,
because they aren't so ridiculous with never ending growth of code
bloat, and that's a point in their favor, but it's still overpriced,
compared to what one can get with parts and Linux. I really see Linux
as the only platform to keep a machine going for its useful life,
without the outrageous cost of Apple.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple's Mac
mini and Studio models are inferior for the cost, compared to self-
assembling a desktop. And I know, not everyone wants to build
computers, I get it, but FFS you sacrifice so much of either quality
or money, if you don't do this. The value of my machine is
unbelievable. I'm a relatively poor person with a great box, because
I used the money so intelligently.
And an Apple Mac Mini with 32GB and 1TB will cost you $1,400USD (plus
applicable taxes), and split that across 4 years and you're looking at
$30/month.
So break down the cost of your machine.
You've already stated some of the components, so show us all how well
you did!
Definitely less money than this Mac mini would cost. Why doesn't it
have WiFi, BTW? Just so weird, how Apple thinks everyone fits some middle-class model of usage, wherein there's a path to the router with
an ethernet cable. My WiFi is integrated in the motherboard. And I
could easily add a PCI-e WiFi card, if I needed an upgrade of it.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
Is Linux really that bad?
I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for >>>>> any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.
I currently have 25 Safari windows open with a total of 273 tabs, as
well as Thunderbird, Apple Mail, Microsoft Teams, Calendar, Finder.... >>>>
...and I'll open up all three Microsoft Office main apps (Word, Excel, >>>> PowerPoint)...
...and with all of that I'm still only at 2/3 on the "Memory Pressure" >>>> graph in Activity Monitor (which, of course, is also open; oh, and
Script Editor to perform the count of open Safari tabs)...
...and that's with just 16GB of RAM.
I don't know how to analyze that in some conclusive way. I just know
that with 32 GB, I rarely even use one byte of swap.
So the same as my system under at least as great a load with half the RAM
I'm using about half of my RAM for main memory, with another 8 GB or
so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm using about half of my [32 GB] RAM for main memory, with another 8 GB or
so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.
You're 133t, dude!
You are so 133t!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
??????????????
Yeah, it is great, because I am showing the benefits of Linux.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs. >>>>>>> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same >>>>>>> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without >>>>>>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a fanatic >>>>>> I sound like".
I am a fanatic, definitely. Fanatically, I can't believe what M$ did >>>>> to Windows 10 victims. And what they're already doing with Win11.
It's a joke. They're making Linux the obvious solution, but people
just won't see that, and put up with the hassle of using Winblows on >>>>> aging hardware.
Or they could just get a Mac.
Probably, Apple's support would be better than M$'s. I grant that,
because they aren't so ridiculous with never ending growth of code
bloat, and that's a point in their favor, but it's still overpriced,
compared to what one can get with parts and Linux. I really see Linux
as the only platform to keep a machine going for its useful life,
without the outrageous cost of Apple.
Except, for most people, there are large costs to Linux.
Most people can't assemble a computer from parts; most don't want to.
Most people want the range of software that comes with using a Mac or a
Windows machine.
I agree that Winblows has a library of software available, that is
enticing to many people. Even excluding gaming, that is true, and I acknowledge it. But it's funny how much one must sacrifice money or performance, for the privilege. With Linux, I just don't have that
problem. Apple is better in terms of how it evolves over time, but
has an up-front cost that is prohibitive. Linux remains the only
viable solution.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm using about half of my [32 GB] RAM for main memory, with another 8 GB or
so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.
You're 133t, dude!
You are so 133t!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
??????????????
Yeah, it is great, because I am showing the benefits of Linux.
Your delusions of grandeur are hilarious.
It's self-evident. I won the game. I axed M$. I have a stable,
reliable system, with Linux. No end in sight.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
he [JWC] knows that he
can't support his assertion that he made a rational product decision.
Incorrect. I don't care about benchmarks.
But you're trying to make comparisons of different products, so you need
to have some objective methodology to assess each one's relative value.
Without that, you're just making a blind "Oranges vs Kiwis" comparison
without knowing what either fruit even tastes like.
I'm not doing data processing, I'm using a computer as an Internet
portal, music player, that kind of thing.
macOS and Winblows are grossly inferior to Linux, for my purposes.
I care about having a modern, reliable, functional system. And not
breaking the bank to get it. Apple and M$ are endlessly requiring upgrades.
Just what upgrades are these which you're referring to? Be specific.
Because Apple has been criticized for the past ~decade because most of
their Macs' hardware is no longer user-upgradable, which makes your
claim effectively impossible.
In any event, I've already looked at what info you've provided and noted
how CPU & RAM performance levels are roughly half of what you chose to
compare them against: how much would it cost you to upgrade your
current system to have double the performance on these two metrics?
Not that you personally need it, but to determine if your claim that a
Studio was overpriced truely is due to brand, not hardware specs.
The upgrade is of the whole system, yes, that's the point. Landfills
and third-world countries receive the wasted corporate crapware
systems. Whereas my box is still virtually brand new, to me.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm using about half of my [32 GB] RAM for main memory, with another 8 GB or
so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.
You're 133t, dude!
You are so 133t!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
??????????????
Yeah, it is great, because I am showing the benefits of Linux.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
How does someone selling a product "abuse" you?Not when such abuse me, right.I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and "commercial". >>>
Do you even hear yourself?
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
And how have those upgrades actually benefited you?Have you actually upgraded your current system?
Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic >>>>> NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
You've described your use of the computer as:
'Internet portal, music player, that kind of thing.'
So do you NEED a better video subsystem for that?
I found that the Intel CPU video was weak for my 4K monitor, that I
got subsequent to assembling the computer, originally I kept using my
old 1080p monitor.
So your judgment about computer systems seems flawed from the word go,
as you describe the monitor in a way that suggests that you had it when
you bought the system.
Didn't do your research very well, huh?
What? When I built the computer, the old monitor was still in use.
Later, I bought a 4K monitor. The CPU's video handled it but barely,
the NVIDIA card made it work more smoothly.
Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
Is Linux really that bad?
I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for
any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.
I currently have 25 Safari windows open with a total of 273 tabs, as
well as Thunderbird, Apple Mail, Microsoft Teams, Calendar, Finder....
...and I'll open up all three Microsoft Office main apps (Word, Excel,
PowerPoint)...
...and with all of that I'm still only at 2/3 on the "Memory Pressure"
graph in Activity Monitor (which, of course, is also open; oh, and
Script Editor to perform the count of open Safari tabs)...
...and that's with just 16GB of RAM.
I don't know how to analyze that in some conclusive way. I just know
that with 32 GB, I rarely even use one byte of swap.
On 11/24/24 9:58 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm using about half of my [32 GB] RAM for main memory, with another
8 GB or
so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.
You're 133t, dude!
You are so 133t!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
??????????????
Yeah, it is great, because I am showing the benefits of Linux.
But you did have to set that up Linux yourself, right?
And how much time, research, & testing did it take you?
-hh
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I am showing the benefits of Linux.
But you did have to set that up Linux yourself, right?
And how much time, research, & testing did it take you?
Nothing happens without action. You can pay Apple or M$ to do it for
you, or you can do it yourself. Doing it myself gives me fabulous
results, within a reasonable budget.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
When I built the computer, the old monitor was still in use.
Later, I bought a 4K monitor. The CPU's video handled it but barely,
the NVIDIA card made it work more smoothly.
And yet when you bought this PC in 2022, you didn't anticipate the
likelihood of getting a 4K display to replace the 1080p when it died?
What difference would that have made? I had the option of adding more hardware, that's one of the benefits of what I did. And it was 2021,
when I built the computer initially.
Remind us again for just much money you have sunk into it already?
The video card was around $100.
I just know
that with 32 GB, I rarely even use one byte of swap.
Which means that you may have overspent, while trying to showcase
yourself as being highly frugal by eschewing brands like Apple.
Nope, 32 GB is about right, for my usage.Then Linux is a memory hog.
Joel wrote:
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
When have you ever kept the same hardware configuration for 10 years?
For that matter, what's the longest that you've gone to date?
After all, you didn't even go 2 years with your 2022 box, as you've
admitted that you made a video upgrade because its original 'high-end' >configuration couldn't even adequately handle one (1) 4K display.
On 2024-11-24 20:15, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I am showing the benefits of Linux.
But you did have to set that up Linux yourself, right?
And how much time, research, & testing did it take you?
Nothing happens without action. You can pay Apple or M$ to do it for
you, or you can do it yourself. Doing it myself gives me fabulous
results, within a reasonable budget.
Results you won't quantify...
...on a budget you won't quantify.
Got it.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
When I built the computer, the old monitor was still in use.
Later, I bought a 4K monitor. The CPU's video handled it but barely,
the NVIDIA card made it work more smoothly.
And yet when you bought this PC in 2022, you didn't anticipate the
likelihood of getting a 4K display to replace the 1080p when it died?
What difference would that have made?
I had the option of adding more hardware, that's one of the benefits
of what I did. And it was 2021, when I built the computer initially.
Remind us again for just much money you have sunk into it already?
The video card was around $100.
I just know
that with 32 GB, I rarely even use one byte of swap.
Which means that you may have overspent, while trying to showcase
yourself as being highly frugal by eschewing brands like Apple.
Nope, 32 GB is about right, for my usage.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft Office >>>>>>> are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it. >>>>>> OHHHHH!
It's the fact that the OS is COMMERCIAL that's important, is it?
It wouldn't be, if M$ and Apple weren't just about getting more and
more money. The way Microsoft pretends that Windows 10 today is still >>>>> the same thing, as it was when it was first released in 2015, is just >>>>> ridiculous. People using these ancient computers with it. It's a
farce.
And now I understand your religion.
Apple doesn't charge a cent for its OS, doofus.
Doesn't matter, you have to have their hardware to use it.
Which you've admitted is good hardware.
Relatively, yes.
No... ...not an eternity.And the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old. >>>Oh wow, six years, that's an eternity ...
But likely longer than most people want to keep one computer.
You're making my case for me, not everyone is upper-middle class, to
afford these pricey Apple systems every few years.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
When I built the computer, the old monitor was still in use.
Later, I bought a 4K monitor. The CPU's video handled it but barely, >>>>> the NVIDIA card made it work more smoothly.
And yet when you bought this PC in 2022 [it was 2021], you didn't anticipate the
likelihood of getting a 4K display to replace the 1080p when it died?
What difference would that have made?
Because buying a subsystem just once instead of buying it twice may
mean that you pay less overall: "Lifecyle cost management 101."
The CPU's video is built into the CPU. It's still there right now, if
I plug a DP cable into the motherboard's video port, but instead I use
the discrete card, now.
Remind us again for just much money you have sunk into it already?
The video card was around $100.
Which gets added to the 2021 base system's price, bringing your total
invested lifecycle cost to date to be ... how much?
No more or less than it's actually worth - which is the point. With
Apple, I'd pay more up front, whether I needed it or not.
32 GB is about right, for my usage.
Not today it isn't: it is still being underutilized at ~3 years system
age, which undermines your claimed argument of the value of moduarlity
for lower lifecycle costs. Looks like you were 5+ years too early in
spending money for RAM that you won't really need until after 2027.
As my computer stays booted up, RAM use approaches the full quantity, including cache. I watch this in System Monitor.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
the braggadocio on having to go manually set up a capability
that mainstream OS users already have, and take for granted.
To use an automotive analogy, its like he's bragging that he upgraded
his carb to have automatic choke ... not realizing that everyone else
looks at them, thinking: "there's still cars which have a manual choke?"
I can't imagine how lazy people are, to pay so much for Apple's and higher-end OEMs' offerings.
Nor how they buy inferior hardware, to save money that way.
I want the best of both worlds - self-assembled.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
...
The CPU's video is built into the CPU. It's still there right now, if
I plug a DP cable into the motherboard's video port, but instead I use
the discrete card, now.
But since as you've said that its GPU wasn't up to the task, maybe you
should have saved $30 upfront and bought the Core i5-10400F instead of
the Core i5-10400, so as to not pay for that inadequate integrated GPU?
Doing so would have lowered your lifecycle costs.
I guess ...
Remind us again for just much money you have sunk into it already?
The video card was around $100.
Which gets added to the 2021 base system's price, bringing your total
invested lifecycle cost to date to be ... how much?
No more or less than it's actually worth - which is the point. With
Apple, I'd pay more up front, whether I needed it or not.
Yup, yet another dodge. Is it because you really don't know how much
you spent, or you simply know that you're going to get critiqued (and
perhaps slaughtered) if you do say how much?
The parts, initially, were around $800. I had also separately
purchased a Windows Pro license for $200. Adding the video card and
doubling the RAM added a modest amount.
32 GB is about right, for my usage.
Not today it isn't: it is still being underutilized at ~3 years system >>>> age, which undermines your claimed argument of the value of moduarlity >>>> for lower lifecycle costs. Looks like you were 5+ years too early in
spending money for RAM that you won't really need until after 2027.
As my computer stays booted up, RAM use approaches the full quantity,
including cache. I watch this in System Monitor.
Still doesn't matter: if you're never hitting swap, its an excess
capability that 3 years after purchase you *still* didn't need to invest
in yet. As such, you've violated the very reason for why you claimed
that a user-upgradable modular system is worth more to you.
If I had 16 GB, it'd be using swap regularly.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
the braggadocio on having to go manually set up a capabilityI can't imagine how lazy people are, to pay so much for Apple's and
that mainstream OS users already have, and take for granted.
To use an automotive analogy, its like he's bragging that he upgraded
his carb to have automatic choke ... not realizing that everyone else
looks at them, thinking: "there's still cars which have a manual choke?" >>>
higher-end OEMs' offerings.
Some are buying for the actual high-end performance. We've already seen
how your claimed "high-end" PC isn't really so high end after all:
your CPU & Storage benchmarks are literally half of the Apple Studio
that you've tried to compare your system against,
I wasn't trying to compare the benchmarks. I was comparing realized
value.
My computer's beginning to age, and yet because I'm running
Linux, this has no meaning to me. It might as well still be brand
new. Same thing with my Galaxy S21 phone, it's still as good as new
to me, I don't miss gimmicky features that an S24 would offer.
plus yesterday you revealed that you've already replaced the original
video controller because it couldn't handle a single 4K display, whereas
the Mac Studio you've been using to compare yourself to can handle five.
I didn't have a "video controller", why do you keep saying that?
It was just the CPU's video, which was great for 1080p, not for 4K.
Big whoop, the cheap card I got is fine since I don't game.
Nor how they buy inferior hardware, to save money that way.
I want the best of both worlds - self-assembled.
Except that you actually haven't done that:
* you under-specced your video and have replaced it already;
* you over-specced your RAM, so you paid for it too early
(if you'll ever actually need it).
Just false.
It raises the question of just maybe perhaps the professionals at the
OEMs are just slightly better at this stuff than you personally are. /s
Not remotely.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
not everyone is upper-middle class, to
afford these pricey Apple systems every few years.
Except that 7 years isn't actually end of life, because a PC can still
continue to be used for years afterwords, just not on the latest OS
version with the latest new features being added.
Case in point, look at the marketshare that's still using Windows 10
instead of Win11:
"At the end of September 2024, Windows 10 had a 62.79 percent market
share and Windows 11 accounted for 33.37 percent."
<https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/01/windows_11_market_share/>
But for now, Win10 is still supported, so a lot of people who could
run 11 stick with it. That will change. Some will stubbornly stay
with an unsupported OS, but the cycle will continue, Windows 12 will
come out, etc.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
[I paid for my computer] No more or less than it's actually worth - which is the point. With
Apple, I'd pay more up front, whether I needed it or not.
Yup, yet another dodge. Is it because you really don't know how much
you spent, or you simply know that you're going to get critiqued (and
perhaps slaughtered) if you do say how much?
The parts, initially, were around $800. I had also separately
purchased a Windows Pro license for $200. Adding the video card and
doubling the RAM added a modest amount.
So $1000, +$100 for video card, and call it +$50 for +16GB RAM.
That sums to $1150.
You could have bought a base 2020 Mac Mini M1 for $599, and used the
$550 remaining to bump specs, buy other stuff, etc. I don't see good
historical MSRPs online at the moment, but I'd figure that $1100 would
get to 16GB RAM/512GB SSD, which is still a solid machine today, and
includes supporting dual 4K/60Hz monitors.
I didn't even need the Win10 license, it turned out, my Win7 Pro
product key from 2010 would've worked, because it'd been upgraded on
my previous machine. I've since given both keys away, since I have
zero intention of ever going back to Winblows.
If I had 16 GB, it'd be using swap regularly.
Except that it isn't a sin to consume swap ... that's why it exists.
The design optimization objective is to consume a relatively low amount
of swap to balance hardware investments vs swap's performance hit; one
rule of thumb is that once your system is regularly using more than 50%,
its time to add more RAM: what was your ratio when you had 16GB RAM?
You're starting to make chrisv sound right about you. The cost of the additional 16 GB was much less, than I'd paid for the first 16, I
purchased the same pair of 8 GB sticks but for a then-lower price.
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
As I said, my desktop is from 2009 and it runs Windows 10 just fine.
This is well known information as I've posted using it for years.
You have low standards. 10 was great for my machine, built in 2021
with a 10th gen i5 CPU and NVMe storage, but 11 23H2 was already
getting more bloated than I care to use, and I've been solidly with
Linux for the last year. Win10 is a dead end, and the only salvation
for your ancient machine would be Linux.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.
In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?
People who like getting value for money.
The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Next.
It suggests that people have disposable income that they put toward
Apple gear, incessantly, it's ridiculous how little storage you get by
default with their devices, I had a 1 TB NVMe drive as a part, it's
still going 3 1/2 years later, at the time the iMac or Mac mini
would've had a small amount of storage, and still cost a lot. You're
a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.
Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is >>sucker?
Is that your position?
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.
On 2024-11-23 13:10, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.
In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?
People who like getting value for money.
The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding >>>>> suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Next.
It suggests that people have disposable income that they put toward
Apple gear, incessantly, it's ridiculous how little storage you get by >>>> default with their devices, I had a 1 TB NVMe drive as a part, it's
still going 3 1/2 years later, at the time the iMac or Mac mini
would've had a small amount of storage, and still cost a lot. You're
a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.
Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is
sucker?
Is that your position?
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.
How are those two related? "joel"?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is >>>>>> sucker?
Is that your position?
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell >>>>> can call Apple victims such.
How are those two related? "joel"?
Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.
OK. So?
Why are YOU using it?
Because I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking >>>>>>> hell
can call Apple victims such.
How are those two related? "joel"?
Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.
OK. So?
Why are YOU using it?
Because I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.
Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac >>Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?
I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.
Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac >>>> Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?
I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.
You're still not addressing your claim that the Mac in question is a
"piece of shit".
What a shocker.
Relative to its price.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
That's not an answer to why you claimed:Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...
...or is that just more of your bullshit?
The software is where it really gets weird, the goofy Apple-centric
interface, it's a fine Unix system under the hood to be sure, but who
cares when Linux is a thing?
'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
So I'll ask again.
OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
clear enough?
On 2024-11-23 17:03, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
That's not an answer to why you claimed:Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...
...or is that just more of your bullshit?
The software is where it really gets weird, the goofy Apple-centric
interface, it's a fine Unix system under the hood to be sure, but who
cares when Linux is a thing?
'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
So I'll ask again.
OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
clear enough?
You haven't yet explained WHY it is "junk software".
That much is entirely clear.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
you claimed:
'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
So I'll ask again.
OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
clear enough?
You haven't yet explained WHY it is "junk software".
That much is entirely clear.
It's a toy, it's not serious,
I mean you have very specific
applications for macOS that are large, e.g. video editing, but not
everyone does these things.
For the average personal-computer user,
it's just wasted potential,
you have this nice hardware running
inferior software, it's powered by Unix to be sure, and has that
potential within it, but most never realize that.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
you claimed:
'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
So I'll ask again.
OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
clear enough?
You haven't yet explained WHY it is "junk software".
That much is entirely clear.
It's a toy, it's not serious, I mean you have very specific
In what way is it "not serious"?
They just aren't very good programmers,
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/23/24 6:11 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.
Except that suitability depends on what one's use case is, and it
doesn't matter if we're talking about PCs or cars, or whatever.
So yeah, if you're just drooling on USENET, then a 2017 vintage Mac
laptop would do you perfectly fine ... I'll sell you one for $199.
OTOH, if your work products merit completing them in a timely fashion,
then computers are just like race cars: "Speed cost money. How fast can >>you afford to go?"
My CPU is a 2020 model, 10th gen Intel. My motherboard can accept
10th or 11th gen CPUs.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I paid less to get high-end gear.
Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-end" >>>>>> gear?
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'd >>>>> get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics
which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4?
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid more
for a name(!).
The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
durability and quality.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/24/24 3:21 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-11-24 11:39, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for theI paid less to get high-end gear.
Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high- >>>>>>>>> end" gear?
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that >>>>>>>> you'd
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics >>>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4? >>>>>>
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid
more
for a name(!).
The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
durability and quality.
You're the one who literally said:
"bragging rights".
While also snipping a whole bunch of other objective metrics.
Gosh, it musta been another "accident"...
...instead of a tacit admission through avoidance that he knows that he >>can't support his assertion that he made a rational product decision.
Incorrect. I don't care about benchmarks.
I care about having a
modern, reliable, functional system.
And not breaking the bank to get
it.
Apple and M$ are endlessly requiring upgrades.
On 2024-11-24 13:06, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/24/24 3:21 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-11-24 11:39, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for theI paid less to get high-end gear.
Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high- >>>>>>>>>> end" gear?
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that >>>>>>>>> you'd
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics >>>>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4? >>>>>>>
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid >>>>>> more
for a name(!).
The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
durability and quality.
You're the one who literally said:
"bragging rights".
While also snipping a whole bunch of other objective metrics.
Gosh, it musta been another "accident"...
...instead of a tacit admission through avoidance that he knows that he
can't support his assertion that he made a rational product decision.
Incorrect. I don't care about benchmarks. I care about having a
modern, reliable, functional system. And not breaking the bank to get
it. Apple and M$ are endlessly requiring upgrades.
So you claim that Apple's hardware is "crap for the money"...
...but won't actually show how much you paid or how good it is.
Got it.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
he [JWC] knows that he
can't support his assertion that he made a rational product decision.
Incorrect. I don't care about benchmarks.
But you're trying to make comparisons of different products, so you need
to have some objective methodology to assess each one's relative value. >>Without that, you're just making a blind "Oranges vs Kiwis" comparison >>without knowing what either fruit even tastes like.
I'm not doing data processing, I'm using a computer as an Internet
portal, music player, that kind of thing. macOS and Winblows are
grossly inferior to Linux, for my purposes.
The upgrade is of the whole system, yes, that's the point. Landfills
and third-world countries receive the wasted corporate crapware
systems. Whereas my box is still virtually brand new, to me.
On 2024-11-23 12:27, Joel wrote:
Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their >>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.
But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
your use of social media ebonics.
I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-23 12:27, Joel wrote:
Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their >>>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent >>>>> that it's Unix.
But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak >>>> your use of social media ebonics.
I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a >>computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill >>necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and >>distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.
You're making my case, yep, people who refuse to learn anything get
what they get. Which is paying money. They pay it for tech support, repairs, on and on. I rely on myself, and get incredible value for
the dollar.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side
of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
the middleman.
But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
And you may not need it.
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
for you... ...you're just delusional.
Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
On 2024-11-23 14:49, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side >>>> of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
the middleman.
But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
And you may not need it.
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
for you... ...you're just delusional.
Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
Yeah...
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a sucker
and a loser...
...right?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side >>>>> of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out >>>>> the middleman.
But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
And you may not need it.
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
for you... ...you're just delusional.
Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
Yeah...
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
sucker and a loser...
...right?
It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize. M$ turned Windows 10 into a beta test of what
became Win11.
That means supported versions basically *are* Win11
Light. Needing modern storage, realistically. Idiots with old
desktops and laptops, refusing to think about switching to Linux, are creating landfill and/or third-world flea market material.
On 2024-11-23 15:16, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them, >>>>>> almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix
side
of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out >>>>>> the middleman.
But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
And you may not need it.
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works >>>>> for you... ...you're just delusional.
Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
Yeah...
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
sucker and a loser...
...right?
It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize.
Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider a loser.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works >>>>>> for you... ...you're just delusional.
Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface. >>>>> If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills >>>>> full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
Yeah...
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
sucker and a loser...
...right?
It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize.
Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
a loser.
In a perfect world, not in the real one.
On 2024-11-23 16:11, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it
works
for you... ...you're just delusional.
Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface. >>>>>> If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills >>>>>> full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
Yeah...
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
sucker and a loser...
...right?
It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize.
Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
a loser.
In a perfect world, not in the real one.
I see.
In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".
Is that your position?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a >>>>>> sucker and a loser...
...right?
It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize.
Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious. >>>>
You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider >>>> a loser.
In a perfect world, not in the real one.
I see.
In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".
Is that your position?
Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom.
On 2024-11-23 17:16, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a >>>>>>> sucker and a loser...
...right?
It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is >>>>>> reality, I realize.
Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it
obvious.
You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be"
consider
a loser.
In a perfect world, not in the real one.
I see.
In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".
Is that your position?
Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom. I am
the mortal being of the divine.
Yeah...
...you're just an ass.
That may be an argument for problems in Windows.M$ turned Windows 10 into a beta test of whatThere is nothing magic about Linux that prevents old machines from
became Win11. That means supported versions basically *are* Win11 >>>>>> Light. Needing modern storage, realistically. Idiots with old
desktops and laptops, refusing to think about switching to Linux, are >>>>>> creating landfill and/or third-world flea market material. All they >>>>>> would have to do is figure out how to install Mint. It's so simple, >>>>>> but they beLIEve they need M$ or Apple. Just pathetic.
becoming too slow for modern software.
Linux gives life to old computers. My computer is relatively new, and >>>> still benefits from the advantages of Linux, but it's *essential* on
aging hardware, that chokes on Winblows 10, which is almost out of
support anyway.
It's not an argument that only Linux can work well on old hardware.
Oh, if you want to run unsupported Windows versions, sure, you can do
that, but then where are you? It's ludicrous, how Winblows 10 still
pretends you can run it on a single-core, 2 GB RAM, spinning hard
drive, laughable.
I knew you wouldn't get it.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser". >>>>
Is that your position?
Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom. I am
the mortal being of the divine.
Yeah...
...you're just an ass.
I'm edgy, yeah. But I can back up what I'm saying.
M$ and Apple are
about money. Linux is about freedom.
On 2024-11-23 18:07, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser". >>>>>
Is that your position?
Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom. I am >>>> the mortal being of the divine.
Yeah...
...you're just an ass.
I'm edgy, yeah. But I can back up what I'm saying. M$ and Apple are
about money. Linux is about freedom.
No. You're not edgy.
You're just overly impressed with yourself.
Joel wrote:
Alan wrote:
Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is >>>sucker?
Is that your position?
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.
"Nice" logic, "Joel".
chrisv wrote:
Only assholes ridicule others for their choices. Within reason,
anyway. Some choices are worthy of ridicule, but buying Apple
products sure isn't one of them.
Here is a buying decision that I would ridicule:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/viral-duct-taped-banana-sells-6-million-auction-rcna180564
Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
Klaus Schadenfreude wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
[Default] Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> typed:
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.
Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current iterations >>>>just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically, >>>>even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're >>>>kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW.
And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO
There are far more shitty Windows apps.
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make >>sure my
code runs on it as well.
You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
Trump and guns. Nuff said.
[Default] Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> typed:
On 2024-11-23 14:51, Joel wrote:
Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
Klaus Schadenfreude wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
[Default] Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> typed:
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional
cost.
Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current
iterations
just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically, >>>>>> even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're >>>>>> kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW. >>>>>
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO
There are far more shitty Windows apps.
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make >>>> sure my
code runs on it as well.
You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
Trump and guns. Nuff said.
Ad hominem.
That was always going to be next for you...
...right?
Well there were death threats too, he learned his lesson.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-23 14:51, Joel wrote:
Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
Klaus Schadenfreude wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
[Default] Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> typed:
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional
cost.
Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current
iterations
just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically, >>>>>> even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're >>>>>> kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW. >>>>>
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO
There are far more shitty Windows apps.
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make >>>> sure my
code runs on it as well.
You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
Trump and guns. Nuff said.
Ad hominem.
That was always going to be next for you...
...right?
The ad hominem began with Klaus dissing Linux software.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves >>>>> Trump and guns. Nuff said.
Ad hominem.
That was always going to be next for you...
...right?
The ad hominem began with Klaus dissing Linux software.
Since "ad hominem" means "to the person" dissing Linux software (which
he didn't actually do) cannot be that.
Ah, but there's an implied dis of people who use Linux, in the words ostensibly about software.
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the >>>>industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.
I think they're all the "enemy" to some degree, depending on what you care >>about, specifically with respect to capability & full hotfix support.
Since I came from the corporate world (Redhat for the engineers, MS
Windows
for everyone who did anything & Apple for the marcomms ladies to draw
with)
I started with Centos (closest free Linux to Redhat) but then moved to >>Ubuntu (which was the Unity desktop abomination in those days long ago).
Linux does everything you need to do, but it just doesn't have the immense >>software choice that Microsoft enjoys - nor is any given release patched >>for, oh, how long has Microsoft Windows been both free & fully supported?
Let's see, my 2009 desktop started as Windows Vista, where I skipped >>Windows 8 (as I recall) & upgraded for free to Windows 10 (as I recall).
Since Windows 10 is fully supported for one more year, that's full hotfix >>support for about 14 years for me, but Vista released in 2007 so that's >>more than a 1-1/2 decades of full hotfix support (which is not the same as >>support - which I know you know - but the Apple trolls never understand >>anything outside of a slick (but brilliant) Apple marketing brochure.
Linux is effectively supported longer than 1-1/2 decades, but you can't >>complain about Microsoft's full hotfix support when it's that long.
Samsung and Google recently published their full hotfix support length. >>It's 7 years and up to 7 releases for both of them.
Apple's full hotfix support is stated as only five years by Apple.
And Apple has never fully supported more than one release in its history.
Those are just facts.
What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much >>that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the >>Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.
You might get your "hotfixes" from M$, but not real support of your
ancient computer, anything that came
Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much >>>>that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the >>>>Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.
You might get your "hotfixes" from M$, but not real support of your
ancient computer, anything that came with Vista is going to have
painfully slow storage, SATA SSDs are not the miracle that NVMe ones
are, when they're connected to ancient motherboards, or even in
general. M$ doesn't care about you, they want you to buy a whole new
system every few years. My computer was ideal for the Windows 11
upgrade, in 2021, but it would suck if I still had it today, which is
why I've been on Linux for a year.
Hi Joel,
I'm curious why you say that given my 2009 PC works great on Windows 10. >>but I defer to your greater knowledge level so I'd like to ask for advice.
What commands do you want me to run to display my system for you now?
And when you see my "ancient" system from 2009, what's wrong with it?
AMD Phenom II X4 810 Processor 2.6GHz 16GB RAM
My "storage" has been replaced long ago but it's a normal disc drive.
My graphics card has also been replaced. And a memory stick went bad.
Other than that, the system is original. It works fine for me in Win10.
Why would you say my system does not run fine when I think it does.
Maybe we're looking at different metrics?
I'm NOT saying it's a powerhouse - but it runs Windows 10 just fine. >>Doesn't it?
What's wrong with it in your opinion that would make Win10 NOT run fine?
I just ran Win+I and screenshotted my "system" to post it below for you.
<https://i.postimg.cc/t4P7fZZg/system01.jpg>
Why do you feel that system is "painfully slow" when I don't feel that? >>What other command do you want me to run to screenshot my system hardware?
I'm curious since you know more than I do on hardware so I wish to learn. >>Here's the Win+R > msinfo32 results which I screenshot for you also.
<https://i.postimg.cc/63gpYnVz/system02.jpg>
Would you kindly take a look and let me know why you think it won't run >>Windows 10 "just fine" (where I know it's no longer a powerhouse PC)?
Thanks! I love to learn from others who know more than I do.
This is interesting, actually, because your system is not unlike my
previous one, a four-core four-thread CPU, with up to 16 GB RAM. I
would wager that your system would perform better under Linux, than
Win10, but if you are satisfied with what you have, I understand.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-24 04:59, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/23/24 8:13 PM, Joel wrote:
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'd >>>>> get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics
which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4?
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
"bragging rights" says all I really need to know about your "edgy" self.
Uh huh, like Apple drones don't brag about their purchases, give me a
break, they lord it over people, oh look at me affording Apple, la la
la, such garbage.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-24 11:40, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:Show me an example of such a post.
On 2024-11-24 04:59, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/23/24 8:13 PM, Joel wrote:It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that
you'd
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics >>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4? >>>>>
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
"bragging rights" says all I really need to know about your "edgy"
self.
Uh huh, like Apple drones don't brag about their purchases, give me a
break, they lord it over people, oh look at me affording Apple, la la
la, such garbage.
I've seen folks such as yourself claim it...
...but I don't believe I've ever seen it.
On IRC, a guy who's a professional photographer uses Photoshop and
other Adobe apps under macOS, talks smack about Linux and GIMP. Acts
like it's so elite to use a Mac, I had Windows 11 Pro retail, I had
Photoshop still active when I got rid of it, because I wanted Linux.
That's how much advantage one gets with Linux.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft Office
are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it. >>OHHHHH!
It's the fact that the OS is COMMERCIAL that's important, is it?
It wouldn't be, if M$ and Apple weren't just about getting more and
more money. The way Microsoft pretends that Windows 10 today is still
the same thing, as it was when it was first released in 2015, is just ridiculous. People using these ancient computers with it. It's a
farce.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-24 13:03, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-24 11:40, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:Show me an example of such a post.
On 2024-11-24 04:59, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/23/24 8:13 PM, Joel wrote:It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that >>>>>>>>> you'd
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics >>>>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4? >>>>>>>
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
"bragging rights" says all I really need to know about your "edgy" >>>>>> self.
Uh huh, like Apple drones don't brag about their purchases, give me a >>>>> break, they lord it over people, oh look at me affording Apple, la la >>>>> la, such garbage.
I've seen folks such as yourself claim it...
...but I don't believe I've ever seen it.
On IRC, a guy who's a professional photographer uses Photoshop and
other Adobe apps under macOS, talks smack about Linux and GIMP. Acts
like it's so elite to use a Mac, I had Windows 11 Pro retail, I had
Photoshop still active when I got rid of it, because I wanted Linux.
That's how much advantage one gets with Linux.
Wow. One guy and the claims you make about what he's said can't be
checked.
Colour me shocked.
And how does what you decided to stop paying for prove ANY advantage for >>Linux?
The advantage is that I'm not roped to Microsoft's bloatware OS. I
can do my work with a sensible OS, Linux.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft Office >>>>> are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it.OHHHHH!
It's the fact that the OS is COMMERCIAL that's important, is it?
It wouldn't be, if M$ and Apple weren't just about getting more and
more money. The way Microsoft pretends that Windows 10 today is still
the same thing, as it was when it was first released in 2015, is just
ridiculous. People using these ancient computers with it. It's a
farce.
And now I understand your religion.
Apple doesn't charge a cent for its OS, doofus.
Doesn't matter, you have to have their hardware to use it.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No... ...not an eternity.the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old. >>>>>Oh wow, six years, that's an eternity ...
But likely longer than most people want to keep one computer.
You're making my case for me, not everyone is upper-middle class, to
afford these pricey Apple systems every few years.
Are you kidding? Amortize over just 4 years, my new MacBook Air M3 will >>cost me $50/month, all in (including 12% sales tax).
And that was hardly the least expensive choice that was available.
You don't have to be "upper-middle class" to afford $50 a month for an >>essential tool of modern life.
Laptops are not really comparable to what I'd be into, Apple's Mac
mini and Studio models are inferior for the cost, compared to self- assembling a desktop. And I know, not everyone wants to build
computers, I get it, but FFS you sacrifice so much of either quality
or money, if you don't do this. The value of my machine is
unbelievable. I'm a relatively poor person with a great box, because
I used the money so intelligently.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
And how does what you decided to stop paying for prove ANY advantage
for
Linux?
The advantage is that I'm not roped to Microsoft's bloatware OS. I
can do my work with a sensible OS, Linux.
That didn't actually answer my question.
Of course, that's pretty much your MO, so...
It's not about money, is the thing. That's all imaginary. It's about production. I flushed the money I spent on Win10/11 and Photoshop,
and Norton for that matter, it's all a write-off, because I wanted to
stop poisoning my precious computer with corporate crapware.
On 2024-11-24 14:44, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:This is sounding a lot more like a cult thing with you...
And how does what you decided to stop paying for prove ANY advantage >>>>> for
Linux?
The advantage is that I'm not roped to Microsoft's bloatware OS. I
can do my work with a sensible OS, Linux.
That didn't actually answer my question.
Of course, that's pretty much your MO, so...
It's not about money, is the thing. That's all imaginary. It's about
production. I flushed the money I spent on Win10/11 and Photoshop,
and Norton for that matter, it's all a write-off, because I wanted to
stop poisoning my precious computer with corporate crapware.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and "commercial".
Not when such abuse me, right.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I flushed the money I spent on Win10/11 and Photoshop,This is sounding a lot more like a cult thing with you...
and Norton for that matter, it's all a write-off, because I wanted to
stop poisoning my precious computer with corporate crapware.
I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
...
Plus since I already have several such drives the cost is even lower and
I don't have to dump them in the landfill as Josh would suggest be done
with them.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
How does someone selling a product "abuse" you?I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and
"commercial".
Not when such abuse me, right.
Do you even hear yourself?
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
On 2024-11-24 16:54, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a fanatic I sound like".
How does someone selling a product "abuse" you?I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and
"commercial".
Not when such abuse me, right.
Do you even hear yourself?
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a fanatic
23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
I sound like".
I am a fanatic, definitely. Fanatically, I can't believe what M$ did
to Windows 10 victims. And what they're already doing with Win11.
It's a joke. They're making Linux the obvious solution, but people
just won't see that, and put up with the hassle of using Winblows on
aging hardware.
On 2024-11-24 17:38, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a fanatic >>> I sound like".
23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
I am a fanatic, definitely. Fanatically, I can't believe what M$ did
to Windows 10 victims. And what they're already doing with Win11.
It's a joke. They're making Linux the obvious solution, but people
just won't see that, and put up with the hassle of using Winblows on
aging hardware.
Or they could just get a Mac.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs. >>>>> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same >>>>> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without >>>>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a
fanatic
I sound like".
I am a fanatic, definitely. Fanatically, I can't believe what M$ did
to Windows 10 victims. And what they're already doing with Win11.
It's a joke. They're making Linux the obvious solution, but people
just won't see that, and put up with the hassle of using Winblows on
aging hardware.
Or they could just get a Mac.
Probably, Apple's support would be better than M$'s. I grant that,
because they aren't so ridiculous with never ending growth of code
bloat, and that's a point in their favor, but it's still overpriced,
compared to what one can get with parts and Linux. I really see Linux
as the only platform to keep a machine going for its useful life,
without the outrageous cost of Apple.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 >>>>>>> vs.I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a
23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the >>>>>>> same
year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without >>>>>>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
fanatic
I sound like".
I am a fanatic, definitely. Fanatically, I can't believe what M$ did >>>>> to Windows 10 victims. And what they're already doing with Win11.
It's a joke. They're making Linux the obvious solution, but people
just won't see that, and put up with the hassle of using Winblows on >>>>> aging hardware.
Or they could just get a Mac.
Probably, Apple's support would be better than M$'s. I grant that,
because they aren't so ridiculous with never ending growth of code
bloat, and that's a point in their favor, but it's still overpriced,
compared to what one can get with parts and Linux. I really see Linux
as the only platform to keep a machine going for its useful life,
without the outrageous cost of Apple.
Except, for most people, there are large costs to Linux.
Most people can't assemble a computer from parts; most don't want to.
Most people want the range of software that comes with using a Mac or a >>Windows machine.
I agree that Winblows has a library of software available, that is
enticing to many people. Even excluding gaming, that is true, and I acknowledge it. But it's funny how much one must sacrifice money or performance, for the privilege.
With Linux, I just don't have that
problem.
Apple is better in terms of how it evolves over time, but
has an up-front cost that is prohibitive. Linux remains the only
viable solution.
On 11/24/24 7:54 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
How does someone selling a product "abuse" you?I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and
"commercial".
Not when such abuse me, right.
Do you even hear yourself?
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
When have you ever kept the same hardware configuration for 10 years?
For that matter, what's the longest that you've gone to date?
After all, you didn't even go 2 years with your 2022 box, as you've
admitted that you made a video upgrade because its original 'high-end' configuration couldn't even adequately handle one (1) 4K display.
-hh
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Most people want the range of software that comes with using a Mac or a >>>> Windows machine.
I agree that Winblows has a library of software available, that is
enticing to many people. Even excluding gaming, that is true, and I
acknowledge it. But it's funny how much one must sacrifice money or
performance, for the privilege. With Linux, I just don't have that
problem. Apple is better in terms of how it evolves over time, but
has an up-front cost that is prohibitive. Linux remains the only
viable solution.
First of all, grow up.
No one here is under any illusion about how you feel about Windows, so
put on your big boy pants and just call it "Windows".
I'm sorry, but I have seen too many damn times, how M$ bloatware does
"blow" as in metaphorically suck dick, as the demands on hardware grow
with updates.
-hh wrote:
Joel wrote:
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
When have you ever kept the same hardware configuration for 10 years?
For that matter, what's the longest that you've gone to date?
After all, you didn't even go 2 years with your 2022 box, as you've >>admitted that you made a video upgrade because its original 'high-end' >>configuration couldn't even adequately handle one (1) 4K display.
Joel is not being fair. But neither is attacking him for adding a
video card to his system. There's obviously nothing wrong with such
an upgrade.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-24 11:39, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for theI have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that
you'd
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics >>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4? >>>>>
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid more >>>> for a name(!).
The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
durability and quality.
You're the one who literally said:
"bragging rights".
Yeah, but not about the name, about how good equipment I selected.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Have you actually upgraded your current system?
Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic
NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
On 2024-11-24 13:00, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-24 11:39, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for theI have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that >>>>>>>> you'd
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics >>>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4? >>>>>>
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid
more
for a name(!).
The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
durability and quality.
You're the one who literally said:
"bragging rights".
Yeah, but not about the name, about how good equipment I selected.
If you won't discuss benchmarks, it's not about how good the the equipment actually is.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
Is Linux really that bad?
I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for >>>>> any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.
I currently have 25 Safari windows open with a total of 273 tabs, as
well as Thunderbird, Apple Mail, Microsoft Teams, Calendar, Finder.... >>>>
...and I'll open up all three Microsoft Office main apps (Word, Excel, >>>> PowerPoint)...
...and with all of that I'm still only at 2/3 on the "Memory Pressure" >>>> graph in Activity Monitor (which, of course, is also open; oh, and
Script Editor to perform the count of open Safari tabs)...
...and that's with just 16GB of RAM.
I don't know how to analyze that in some conclusive way. I just know
that with 32 GB, I rarely even use one byte of swap.
So the same as my system under at least as great a load with half the RAM
I'm using about half of my RAM for main memory, with another 8 GB or
so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.
On 2024-11-24 16:50, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:And how have those upgrades actually benefited you?
Have you actually upgraded your current system?
Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic
NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
You've described your use of the computer as:
'Internet portal, music player, that kind of thing.'
So do you NEED a better video subsystem for that?
Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
Is Linux really that bad?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
And how have those upgrades actually benefited you?Have you actually upgraded your current system?
Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic
NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
You've described your use of the computer as:
'Internet portal, music player, that kind of thing.'
So do you NEED a better video subsystem for that?
I found that the Intel CPU video was weak for my 4K monitor, that I
got subsequent to assembling the computer, originally I kept using my
old 1080p monitor.
Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
Is Linux really that bad?
I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for
any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
He couldn't future-proof his video system.
?
Are you really so surprised that the CPU's integrated video wouldn't
do well, with 4K? It seems obvious that it'd help to have a discreet
video card, I didn't need an expensive one, it's not a big deal. I'm
glad to spend a little, to get a lot of mileage.
On 2024-11-24 19:48, -hh wrote:
On 11/24/24 9:58 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm using about half of my [32 GB] RAM for main memory, with another 8 >>>>> GB or
so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.
You're 133t, dude!
You are so 133t!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
??????????????
Yeah, it is great, because I am showing the benefits of Linux.
But you did have to set that up Linux yourself, right?
And how much time, research, & testing did it take you?
-hh
Apparently not much.
He couldn't future-proof his video system.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I am showing the benefits of Linux.
But you did have to set that up Linux yourself, right?
And how much time, research, & testing did it take you?
Nothing happens without action. You can pay Apple or M$ to do it for
you, or you can do it yourself. Doing it myself gives me fabulous
results, within a reasonable budget.
On 11/25/24 2:46 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-11-24 20:15, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I am showing the benefits of Linux.
But you did have to set that up Linux yourself, right?
And how much time, research, & testing did it take you?
Nothing happens without action. You can pay Apple or M$ to do it for
you, or you can do it yourself. Doing it myself gives me fabulous
results, within a reasonable budget.
Results you won't quantify...
...on a budget you won't quantify.
Got it.
That too, but it wasn't really my point here.
Point was the braggadocio on having to go manually set up a capability
that mainstream OS users already have, and take for granted.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
the braggadocio on having to go manually set up a capability
that mainstream OS users already have, and take for granted.
To use an automotive analogy, its like he's bragging that he upgraded
his carb to have automatic choke ... not realizing that everyone else
looks at them, thinking: "there's still cars which have a manual choke?"
I can't imagine how lazy people are, to pay so much for Apple's and higher-end OEMs' offerings. Nor how they buy inferior hardware, to
save money that way.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
the braggadocio on having to go manually set up a capability
that mainstream OS users already have, and take for granted.
To use an automotive analogy, its like he's bragging that he upgraded
his carb to have automatic choke ... not realizing that everyone else
looks at them, thinking: "there's still cars which have a manual
choke?"
I can't imagine how lazy people are, to pay so much for Apple's and
higher-end OEMs' offerings.
Some are buying for the actual high-end performance. We've already seen >>how your claimed "high-end" PC isn't really so high end after all:
your CPU & Storage benchmarks are literally half of the Apple Studio
that you've tried to compare your system against,
I wasn't trying to compare the benchmarks. I was comparing realized
value. My computer's beginning to age,
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
[I paid for my computer] No more or less than it's actually worth -
which is the point. With
Apple, I'd pay more up front, whether I needed it or not.
Yup, yet another dodge. Is it because you really don't know how much
you spent, or you simply know that you're going to get critiqued (and
perhaps slaughtered) if you do say how much?
The parts, initially, were around $800. I had also separately
purchased a Windows Pro license for $200. Adding the video card and
doubling the RAM added a modest amount.
So $1000, +$100 for video card, and call it +$50 for +16GB RAM.
That sums to $1150.
You could have bought a base 2020 Mac Mini M1 for $599, and used the
$550 remaining to bump specs, buy other stuff, etc. I don't see good >>historical MSRPs online at the moment, but I'd figure that $1100 would
get to 16GB RAM/512GB SSD, which is still a solid machine today, and >>includes supporting dual 4K/60Hz monitors.
I didn't even need the Win10 license, it turned out, my Win7 Pro
product key from 2010 would've worked,
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
What difference would that have made?When I built the computer, the old monitor was still in use.
Later, I bought a 4K monitor. The CPU's video handled it but
barely,
the NVIDIA card made it work more smoothly.
And yet when you bought this PC in 2022 [it was 2021], you didn't
anticipate the
likelihood of getting a 4K display to replace the 1080p when it died? >>>>>
Because buying a subsystem just once instead of buying it twice may
mean that you pay less overall: "Lifecyle cost management 101."
The CPU's video is built into the CPU. It's still there right now, if
I plug a DP cable into the motherboard's video port, but instead I use
the discrete card, now.
But since as you've said that its GPU wasn't up to the task, maybe you >>should have saved $30 upfront and bought the Core i5-10400F instead of
the Core i5-10400, so as to not pay for that inadequate integrated GPU? >>Doing so would have lowered your lifecycle costs.
I guess ...
Remind us again for just much money you have sunk into it already?
The video card was around $100.
Which gets added to the 2021 base system's price, bringing your total
invested lifecycle cost to date to be ... how much?
No more or less than it's actually worth - which is the point. With
Apple, I'd pay more up front, whether I needed it or not.
Yup, yet another dodge. Is it because you really don't know how much
you spent, or you simply know that you're going to get critiqued (and >>perhaps slaughtered) if you do say how much?
The parts, initially, were around $800. I had also separately
purchased a Windows Pro license for $200. Adding the video card and
doubling the RAM added a modest amount.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:vi0s9l$2kdc6$1@dont-email.me...
On 2024-11-24 19:48, -hh wrote:
On 11/24/24 9:58 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm using about half of my [32 GB] RAM for main memory, with another 8 >>>>>> GB or
so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.
You're 133t, dude!
You are so 133t!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
??????????????
Yeah, it is great, because I am showing the benefits of Linux.
But you did have to set that up Linux yourself, right?
And how much time, research, & testing did it take you?
-hh
Apparently not much.
He couldn't future-proof his video system.
Heck he didn't even future proof his computer system. Remember his system
was inadequate to handle Win11 updates...
... by his own admission.
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message news:lsg7kj1k9091m56hlh2nqqoc2ffk1jd58r@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and "commercial".
Not when such abuse me, right.
Now Joel, show us on this doll where Microsoft touched you....
"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:9aq8kjtnd5bs69r2cv74vrf99dt8q0dn30@4ax.com...
-hh wrote:
Joel wrote:
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
When have you ever kept the same hardware configuration for 10 years?
For that matter, what's the longest that you've gone to date?
After all, you didn't even go 2 years with your 2022 box, as you've >>>admitted that you made a video upgrade because its original 'high-end' >>>configuration couldn't even adequately handle one (1) 4K display.
Joel is not being fair. But neither is attacking him for adding a
video card to his system. There's obviously nothing wrong with such
an upgrade.
If you have to replace your video card within 2 years of original then one has to question his choice of hardware..
As apparently his hardware was so close to or below minimum requirements
that he couldn't update Win11 after installing it.
"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message news:vi0rrt$2k5ft$3@dont-email.me...
On 11/24/24 7:54 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
How does someone selling a product "abuse" you?I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and
"commercial".
Not when such abuse me, right.
Do you even hear yourself?
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
When have you ever kept the same hardware configuration for 10 years?
For that matter, what's the longest that you've gone to date?
After all, you didn't even go 2 years with your 2022 box, as you've
admitted that you made a video upgrade because its original 'high-end'
configuration couldn't even adequately handle one (1) 4K display.
-hh
-hh swoops in and nukes the target from orbit...
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:vhter2$1rdgn$3@dont- email.me...
On 2024-11-23 12:27, Joel wrote:
Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their >>>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent >>>>> that it's Unix.
But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak >>>> your use of social media ebonics.
I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.
ROTFLMAO.. Nailed it
Scout wrote:
-highhorse wrote:
After all, you didn't even go 2 years with your 2022 box, as you've
admitted that you made a video upgrade because its original 'high-end'
configuration couldn't even adequately handle one (1) 4K display.
-hh swoops in and nukes the target from orbit...
Indeed!
+1
Just like one of those Russian hypersonic missiles.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I didn't even need the Win10 license, it turned out, my Win7 Pro
product key from 2010 would've worked, because it'd been upgraded on
my previous machine. I've since given both keys away, since I have
zero intention of ever going back to Winblows.
So that's another 'spent too much' research error on your part. Check.
I don't mind, the keys can be reused by others. It's a minor write-
off, I got my use out of Winblows when I used it, I will never want it
back.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
your CPU & Storage benchmarks are literally half of the Apple Studio
that you've tried to compare your system against,
I wasn't trying to compare the benchmarks. I was comparing realized
value.
Fine, but why did you then compare your system to one that's known to be
vastly more capable? Your "Apples vs Oranges" has become deliberate.
I was comparing to an Apple device currently available, that it is
newer and faster didn't matter, because it was about initial price.
My computer's beginning to age, and yet because I'm running
Linux, this has no meaning to me. It might as well still be brand
new. Same thing with my Galaxy S21 phone, it's still as good as new
to me, I don't miss gimmicky features that an S24 would offer.
Oh, so its just barely 3 years old and you've already noticing that it
is aging?
I did after 2 1/2 years with Win11, but I don't with Linux, no.
So just how sure are you now that its going to last as many
years as you've been hoping it would without several more upgrades, even
with Linux? Keep in mind that you're already at over $1100 invested &
counting.
Nothing to indicate I'll need further upgrades, and your figure for
what I've put in seems higher than actual.
plus yesterday you revealed that you've already replaced the originalI didn't have a "video controller", why do you keep saying that?
video controller because it couldn't handle a single 4K display, whereas >>>> the Mac Studio you've been using to compare yourself to can handle five. >>>
That its integral to the CPU doesn't mean that its not a video controller. >>
It was just the CPU's video, which was great for 1080p, not for 4K.
Big whoop, the cheap card I got is fine since I don't game.
Trailing edge of technology, which you've already paid to replace. Good
lifecycle management plan there! /s
That is all nonsense, I liked the i5-10400 without regard to it
containing basic video, that was something convenient for my old
monitor, that I had to replace it with a card was no biggie.
Nor how they buy inferior hardware, to save money that way.
I want the best of both worlds - self-assembled.
Except that you actually haven't done that:
* you under-specced your video and have replaced it already;
* you over-specced your RAM, so you paid for it too early
(if you'll ever actually need it).
Just false.
You've already told us that you spent $100 to upgrade the video.
You've already told us that you spent some amount (I've assumed $50) to
increase RAM to 32GB and that its currently not using any swap, which
means that the extra RAM isn't being used at all.
I regularly use 16 GB for main usage *plus* more for cache, I even occasionally go slightly over the full 32 GB when both are factored
in, slightly using swap. I *could* actually move to 48 or 64 GB, if I
were obsessed.
It raises the question of just maybe perhaps the professionals at theNot remotely.
OEMs are just slightly better at this stuff than you personally are. /s >>>
In your dreams, unfortunately. As I've already noted, you could have
bought a Mac Mini for less & had comparable/better performing hardware.
But it'd be running macOS. :)
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lsg7kj1k9091m56hlh2nqqoc2ffk1jd58r@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I [JWC] value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and >>>>>"commercial".
Not when such abuse me, right.
I may be mistaken but I seem to remember Joel complaining that Microsoft >>somehow disabled his Windows machine and he was unable to repair it.
Joel appears to be a switch hitter in more ways than one. He uses Windows >>for
a while, screws it up somehow then switches to Linux and claims Linux >>solved
all of his self inflicted issues.
Utter BS. I made an error with regard to *the specific ways* M$ was committing fraud on Win10 users,
although they still were doing such.
I admitted my error, I regretted it, I went back to using Windows 10
and then 11, too.
I gave them every chance in the world. But that's
over. I will never disgrace my precious hardware with Winblows,
again.
pothead wrote:
Scout wrote:
-highhorse wrote:
After all, you didn't even go 2 years with your 2022 box, as you've
admitted that you made a video upgrade because its original 'high-end' >>>> configuration couldn't even adequately handle one (1) 4K display.
-hh swoops in and nukes the target from orbit...
Indeed!
+1
Just like one of those Russian hypersonic missiles.
You're not being consistent with your earlier (and correct) comment
regarding the Intel graphics. Unless he's doing something graphically intensive, Joel's 10th-gen i5 should have no trouble driving a 4k
monitor.
At this point of this debate, neither side is being completely
reasonable. Typical usenet, in other workds.
On 11/25/24 1:42 PM, Scout wrote:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:o6h4kjd3rdakap493chs9dulrbmvr8qfqf@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-23 12:27, Joel wrote:
Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least >>>>>>> their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent >>>>>>> that it's Unix.
But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and
cloak
your use of social media ebonics.
I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill >>>> necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.
You're making my case, yep, people who refuse to learn anything get
what they get. Which is paying money. They pay it for tech support,
repairs, on and on. I rely on myself, and get incredible value for
the dollar.
And yet, I bet you spent more on your system than I have on mine... which
you assert is junk purely because I have no use for Linux.
Well, based on what Joel has finally dribbled out, he's admitted so far to have spent at least $1100, plus a 16GB RAM upgrade...I SWAG'ed that to be worth ~$50, but he protested that as apparently too high.
But until Joel coughs up a hard number, I'd say he's at $1150.
Plus there's also a new 4K monitor that replaced an old legacy 1080p that apparently died sometime after 2021. If one is comparing his desktop to a notebook, its cost would arguably have to be added in too.
-hh
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lsg7kj1k9091m56hlh2nqqoc2ffk1jd58r@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Not when such abuse me, right.I [JWC] value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and "commercial". >>>>
I may be mistaken but I seem to remember Joel complaining that Microsoft >>somehow disabled his Windows machine and he was unable to repair it.
Joel appears to be a switch hitter in more ways than one. He uses Windows for >>a while, screws it up somehow then switches to Linux and claims Linux solved >>all of his self inflicted issues.
Utter BS. I made an error with regard to *the specific ways* M$ was committing fraud on Win10 users, although they still were doing such.
I admitted my error, I regretted it, I went back to using Windows 10
and then 11, too. I gave them every chance in the world. But that's
over. I will never disgrace my precious hardware with Winblows,
again.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
your CPU & Storage benchmarks are literally half of the Apple Studio
that you've tried to compare your system against,
I wasn't trying to compare the benchmarks. I was comparing realized
value.
Fine, but why did you then compare your system to one that's known to be >>vastly more capable? Your "Apples vs Oranges" has become deliberate.
I was comparing to an Apple device currently available, that it is
newer and faster didn't matter, because it was about initial price.
My computer's beginning to age, and yet because I'm running
Linux, this has no meaning to me. It might as well still be brand
new. Same thing with my Galaxy S21 phone, it's still as good as new
to me, I don't miss gimmicky features that an S24 would offer.
Oh, so its just barely 3 years old and you've already noticing that it
is aging?
I did after 2 1/2 years with Win11, but I don't with Linux, no.
So just how sure are you now that its going to last as many
years as you've been hoping it would without several more upgrades, even >>with Linux? Keep in mind that you're already at over $1100 invested & >>counting.
Nothing to indicate I'll need further upgrades, and your figure for
what I've put in seems higher than actual.
plus yesterday you revealed that you've already replaced the original
video controller because it couldn't handle a single 4K display,
whereas
the Mac Studio you've been using to compare yourself to can handle
five.
I didn't have a "video controller", why do you keep saying that?
That its integral to the CPU doesn't mean that its not a video controller.
It was just the CPU's video, which was great for 1080p, not for 4K.
Big whoop, the cheap card I got is fine since I don't game.
Trailing edge of technology, which you've already paid to replace. Good >>lifecycle management plan there! /s
That is all nonsense, I liked the i5-10400 without regard to it
containing basic video, that was something convenient for my old
monitor, that I had to replace it with a card was no biggie.
Nor how they buy inferior hardware, to save money that way.
I want the best of both worlds - self-assembled.
Except that you actually haven't done that:
* you under-specced your video and have replaced it already;
* you over-specced your RAM, so you paid for it too early
(if you'll ever actually need it).
Just false.
You've already told us that you spent $100 to upgrade the video.
You've already told us that you spent some amount (I've assumed $50) to >>increase RAM to 32GB and that its currently not using any swap, which
means that the extra RAM isn't being used at all.
I regularly use 16 GB for main usage *plus* more for cache, I even occasionally go slightly over the full 32 GB when both are factored
in, slightly using swap. I *could* actually move to 48 or 64 GB, if I
were obsessed.
It raises the question of just maybe perhaps the professionals at theNot remotely.
OEMs are just slightly better at this stuff than you personally are. /s >>>
In your dreams, unfortunately. As I've already noted, you could have >>bought a Mac Mini for less & had comparable/better performing hardware.
But it'd be running macOS. :)
--
Joel W. Crump
Amendment XIV
Section 1.
[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.
Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-25, Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
news:vi0rrt$2k5ft$3@dont-email.me...
On 11/24/24 7:54 PM, Joel wrote:
Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs. >>>>> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same >>>>> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without >>>>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
When have you ever kept the same hardware configuration for 10 years?
For that matter, what's the longest that you've gone to date?
After all, you didn't even go 2 years with your 2022 box, as you've
admitted that you made a video upgrade because its original 'high-end' >>>> configuration couldn't even adequately handle one (1) 4K display.
-hh swoops in and nukes the target from orbit...
Indeed!
+1
Just like one of those Russian hypersonic missiles.
Liars. Fuck off and die. Kill yourselves.
pothead wrote:
Scout wrote:
-highhorse wrote:
After all, you didn't even go 2 years with your 2022 box, as you've
admitted that you made a video upgrade because its original 'high-end' >>>> configuration couldn't even adequately handle one (1) 4K display.
-hh swoops in and nukes the target from orbit...
Indeed!
+1
Just like one of those Russian hypersonic missiles.
You're not being consistent with your earlier (and correct) comment
regarding the Intel graphics. Unless he's doing something graphically intensive, Joel's 10th-gen i5 should have no trouble driving a 4k
monitor.
At this point of this debate, neither side is being completely
reasonable. Typical usenet, in other workds.
On 11/26/24 8:32 AM, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
your CPU & Storage benchmarks are literally half of the Apple Studio >>>>> that you've tried to compare your system against,
I wasn't trying to compare the benchmarks. I was comparing realized
value.
Fine, but why did you then compare your system to one that's known to be >>> vastly more capable? Your "Apples vs Oranges" has become deliberate.
I was comparing to an Apple device currently available, that it is
newer and faster didn't matter, because it was about initial price.
You went upscale instead of choosing one comparable to your PC's i5.
That's like bragging that a Toyota Yaris is cheaper than a Porsche 911
while pretending that no other cars exist in the marketplace.
My computer's beginning to age, and yet because I'm running
Linux, this has no meaning to me. It might as well still be brand
new. Same thing with my Galaxy S21 phone, it's still as good as new
to me, I don't miss gimmicky features that an S24 would offer.
Oh, so its just barely 3 years old and you've already noticing that it
is aging?
I did after 2 1/2 years with Win11, but I don't with Linux, no.
What changed in your software/useage to have 'degraded' Windows?
I've used Windows for decades: the era of 'bitrot' was circa XP.
So just how sure are you now that its going to last as many
years as you've been hoping it would without several more upgrades, even >>> with Linux? Keep in mind that you're already at over $1100 invested &
counting.
Nothing to indicate I'll need further upgrades, and your figure for
what I've put in seems higher than actual.
But nothing to indicate that you actually needed the upgrades that you've already paid for, especially RAM.
And for figure, the only one that isn't directly from what you provided is the cost of your +16GB RAM upgrade. I estimated it was +$50 for which
you've protested but not provided its actual cost....
...and since that +$50 isn't included in the "$1100 invested" statement above, you have zero basis to complain: had my estimate for your RAM
upgrade cost had been included, it would have said $1150.
plus yesterday you revealed that you've already replaced the original >>>>> video controller because it couldn't handle a single 4K display,
whereas
the Mac Studio you've been using to compare yourself to can handle
five.
I didn't have a "video controller", why do you keep saying that?
That its integral to the CPU doesn't mean that its not a video
controller.
It was just the CPU's video, which was great for 1080p, not for 4K.
Big whoop, the cheap card I got is fine since I don't game.
Trailing edge of technology, which you've already paid to replace. Good >>> lifecycle management plan there! /s
That is all nonsense, I liked the i5-10400 without regard to it
containing basic video, that was something convenient for my old
monitor, that I had to replace it with a card was no biggie.
Which is you saying that you're not sensitive to a +10% cost increase.
With the prior insensitivity to your $200 Windows license part, you're at +$300 over, so you're not sensitive to +30% cost increases.
You're not being a particularly value conscious consumer in IRL practice:
so remind us again about why OEM markups are so 'evil'? /s
Nor how they buy inferior hardware, to save money that way.
I want the best of both worlds - self-assembled.
Except that you actually haven't done that:
* you under-specced your video and have replaced it already;
* you over-specced your RAM, so you paid for it too early
(if you'll ever actually need it).
Just false.
You've already told us that you spent $100 to upgrade the video.
You've already told us that you spent some amount (I've assumed $50) to
increase RAM to 32GB and that its currently not using any swap, which
means that the extra RAM isn't being used at all.
I regularly use 16 GB for main usage *plus* more for cache, I even
occasionally go slightly over the full 32 GB when both are factored
in, slightly using swap. I *could* actually move to 48 or 64 GB, if I
were obsessed.
Merely allocating doesn't mean that it actually gets used: what was your
swap performance metric *before* you chose to drop money on a RAM upgrade? Because without evidence of a performance degradation, you're again gratuitously spending your money to solve a non-problem.
It raises the question of just maybe perhaps the professionals at the >>>>> OEMs are just slightly better at this stuff than you personally are. >>>>> /s
Not remotely.
In your dreams, unfortunately. As I've already noted, you could have
bought a Mac Mini for less & had comparable/better performing hardware.
But it'd be running macOS. :)
Because no Mac ever has been able to run Linux? Pull my other leg.
Now granted, there are some reports that there's not a great version of
Linux for running on the M4 CPUs, but one can always run Linux in a VM
under MacOS ... I've found that Windows11 does fine this way.
-hh
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message news:aj25kj1mjp2b0j8f90o5vkgol3nc85s9ir@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
you claimed:
'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
So I'll ask again.
OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
clear enough?
You haven't yet explained WHY it is "junk software".
That much is entirely clear.
It's a toy, it's not serious,
So how many high end professionals find your system to be a "must have"?
I mean you have very specific
applications for macOS that are large, e.g. video editing, but not
everyone does these things.
I see, so unless it's something EVERYONE uses.. then it's junk software..
In which metric Windows is FAR better than Linux.
No. To be accurate, Windows is NOT powered by Unix.For the average personal-computer user,
it's just wasted potential,
Windows
you have this nice hardware running
inferior software, it's powered by Unix to be sure, and has that
potential within it, but most never realize that.
EVERY modern OS has Unix as it's base.
Windows is powered by Unix.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
He couldn't future-proof his video system.
?
Are you really so surprised that the CPU's integrated video wouldn't
do well, with 4K? It seems obvious that it'd help to have a discreet
video card, I didn't need an expensive one, it's not a big deal. I'm
glad to spend a little, to get a lot of mileage.
/I'm/ not...
...but apparently you were.
No I wasn't surprised, and I handled it, I bought an inexpensive card.If you hadn't been surprised, you have bought the card from the beginning.
Big F'ing deal.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
the braggadocio on having to go manually set up a capabilityI can't imagine how lazy people are, to pay so much for Apple's and
that mainstream OS users already have, and take for granted.
To use an automotive analogy, its like he's bragging that he upgraded
his carb to have automatic choke ... not realizing that everyone else
looks at them, thinking: "there's still cars which have a manual choke?" >>>
higher-end OEMs' offerings.
Some are buying for the actual high-end performance. We've already seen
how your claimed "high-end" PC isn't really so high end after all:
your CPU & Storage benchmarks are literally half of the Apple Studio
that you've tried to compare your system against,
I wasn't trying to compare the benchmarks. I was comparing realized
value. My computer's beginning to age, and yet because I'm running
Linux, this has no meaning to me. It might as well still be brand
new. Same thing with my Galaxy S21 phone, it's still as good as new
to me, I don't miss gimmicky features that an S24 would offer.
plus yesterday you revealed that you've already replaced the original
video controller because it couldn't handle a single 4K display, whereas
the Mac Studio you've been using to compare yourself to can handle five.
I didn't have a "video controller", why do you keep saying that? It
was just the CPU's video, which was great for 1080p, not for 4K. Big
whoop, the cheap card I got is fine since I don't game.
Trailing edge of technology, which you've already paid to replace. Good
lifecycle management plan there! /s
That is all nonsense, I liked the i5-10400 without regard to it
containing basic video, that was something convenient for my old
monitor, that I had to replace it with a card was no biggie.
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message news:9757kjp8pi1klqhk7didm6jdhgo3juutdn@4ax.com...
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/24/24 3:21 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-11-24 11:39, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for theI paid less to get high-end gear.
Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high- >>>>>>>>>> end" gear?
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that >>>>>>>>> you'd
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics >>>>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4? >>>>>>>
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid >>>>>> more
for a name(!).
The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
durability and quality.
You're the one who literally said:
"bragging rights".
While also snipping a whole bunch of other objective metrics.
Gosh, it musta been another "accident"...
...instead of a tacit admission through avoidance that he knows that he
can't support his assertion that he made a rational product decision.
Incorrect. I don't care about benchmarks.
Translation: I don’t care if it's fast or slow...
I care about having a
modern, reliable, functional system.
Which can be dirt slow as long as it looks good....
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
If you hadn't been surprised, you have bought the card from the beginning.He couldn't future-proof his video system.
?
Are you really so surprised that the CPU's integrated video wouldn't >>>>> do well, with 4K? It seems obvious that it'd help to have a discreet >>>>> video card, I didn't need an expensive one, it's not a big deal. I'm >>>>> glad to spend a little, to get a lot of mileage.
/I'm/ not...
...but apparently you were.
No I wasn't surprised, and I handled it, I bought an inexpensive card.
Big F'ing deal.
That's idiotic, are you so bamboozled and brainwashed by Apple thatI understand it fine.
you don't understand modifying a real, assembled desktop machine, you
fucking moron? I thought, as chrisv blindly asserted, that the CPU
would work fine, when it didn't, I did an upgrade with a discrete
card, which made a large difference. It also gave me a second video
port, which allows me to use my TV as a monitor, too. What a
travesty, huh? Derp.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-25 05:59, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
plus yesterday you revealed that you've already replaced the originalI didn't have a "video controller", why do you keep saying that? It
video controller because it couldn't handle a single 4K display, whereas >>>> the Mac Studio you've been using to compare yourself to can handle five. >>>
was just the CPU's video, which was great for 1080p, not for 4K. Big
whoop, the cheap card I got is fine since I don't game.
The fact that it was integrated into the motherboard doesn't make it any
less a video controller, doofus.
You really aren't very 1337 if you don't understand that fact.
It was integrated into the CPU, it's still there, I could put a thirdIf you bought a Mac Mini for $600 you'd get support for a lot more in
monitor on, I guess, and utilize it along with the NVIDIA card, but
then again I could also buy a Mac like your dumb ass - to speak of
things I will not be doing.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Trailing edge of technology, which you've already paid to replace. Good >>>> lifecycle management plan there! /s
That is all nonsense, I liked the i5-10400 without regard to it
containing basic video, that was something convenient for my old
monitor, that I had to replace it with a card was no biggie.
The i5 processors don't "contain basic video" in any way shape or form.
Are you sure you know ANYTHING about how computers work?
Was that supposed to be anything but word salad?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
If you bought a Mac Mini for $600 you'd get support for a lot more inI didn't have a "video controller", why do you keep saying that? It >>>>> was just the CPU's video, which was great for 1080p, not for 4K. Big >>>>> whoop, the cheap card I got is fine since I don't game.
The fact that it was integrated into the motherboard doesn't make it any >>>> less a video controller, doofus.
You really aren't very 1337 if you don't understand that fact.
It was integrated into the CPU, it's still there, I could put a third
monitor on, I guess, and utilize it along with the NVIDIA card, but
then again I could also buy a Mac like your dumb ass - to speak of
things I will not be doing.
terms of video.
:-)
With 256 GB storage? Heh.You get that you could increase that, right?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Trailing edge of technology, which you've already paid to replace. Good >>>> lifecycle management plan there! /s
That is all nonsense, I liked the i5-10400 without regard to it
containing basic video, that was something convenient for my old
monitor, that I had to replace it with a card was no biggie.
The i5 processors don't "contain basic video" in any way shape or form.
Are you sure you know ANYTHING about how computers work?
Was that supposed to be anything but word salad?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You get that you could increase that, right?If you bought a Mac Mini for $600 you'd get support for a lot more in
terms of video.
:-)
With 256 GB storage? Heh.
Way to miss the point!
OK, well, the Web site says to go from 256 GB to 1 TB is an extra
$400. So, what is your point, pray tell? So is going from 16 GB RAM
to 32 GB, BTW. So, $1400, not $600.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You get that you could increase that, right?If you bought a Mac Mini for $600 you'd get support for a lot more in >>>>>> terms of video.
:-)
With 256 GB storage? Heh.
Way to miss the point!
OK, well, the Web site says to go from 256 GB to 1 TB is an extra
$400. So, what is your point, pray tell? So is going from 16 GB RAM
to 32 GB, BTW. So, $1400, not $600.
Yup. And you get a much more capable system for only a little more than
you ended up paying; an insignificant amount over a reasonable system life.
I paid under $1000, or so, not counting the software purchases, since
I ended up using Linux exclusively. And my CPU is virtually as good
as the M1, the benchmarks showed the difference isn't really
significant. Face it, Apple is a scam.
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
Was that supposed to be anything but word salad?
It's clear to me.
However as a Kamala supporter Joel, you should be adept at deciphering word salad.
I'll take Harris's manners of speech over Trump's rambling nonsense,
are you kidding? The fantasies he drooled out, at those rallies full
of uneducable crackers? What a farce.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
to go from 256 GB to 1 TB is an extra
$400. So, what is your point, pray tell? So is going from 16 GB RAM >>>>> to 32 GB, BTW. So, $1400, not $600.
Yup. And you get a much more capable system for only a little more than >>>> you ended up paying; an insignificant amount over a reasonable system life.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
your CPU & Storage benchmarks are literally half of the Apple Studio >>>>>> that you've tried to compare your system against,
I wasn't trying to compare the benchmarks. I was comparing realized >>>>> value.
Fine, but why did you then compare your system to one that's known to be >>>> vastly more capable? Your "Apples vs Oranges" has become deliberate.
I was comparing to an Apple device currently available, that it is
newer and faster didn't matter, because it was about initial price.
You went upscale instead of choosing one comparable to your PC's i5.
That's like bragging that a Toyota Yaris is cheaper than a Porsche 911
while pretending that no other cars exist in the marketplace.
I bought good stuff relative to when I bought it and my needs.
My computer's beginning to age, and yet because I'm running
Linux, this has no meaning to me. It might as well still be brand
new. Same thing with my Galaxy S21 phone, it's still as good as new >>>>> to me, I don't miss gimmicky features that an S24 would offer.
Oh, so its just barely 3 years old and you've already noticing that it >>>> is aging?
I did after 2 1/2 years with Win11, but I don't with Linux, no.
What changed in your software/useage to have 'degraded' Windows?
I've used Windows for decades: the era of 'bitrot' was circa XP.
It's just heavier demands on hardware.
M$ is not in the consumer's interest. Linux is.
So just how sure are you now that its going to last as many years
as you've been hoping it would without several more upgrades, even
with Linux? Keep in mind that you're already at over $1100 invested
& counting.
Nothing to indicate I'll need further upgrades, and your figure for
what I've put in seems higher than actual.
But nothing to indicate that you actually needed the upgrades that
you've already paid for, especially RAM.
Wrong, my usage hits 16 GB *not* including cache right away. 32 GB is
a very reasonable amount to have.
And for figure, the only one that isn't directly from what you provided
is the cost of your +16GB RAM upgrade. I estimated it was +$50 for
which you've protested but not provided its actual cost....
...and since that +$50 isn't included in the "$1100 invested" statement
above, you have zero basis to complain: had my estimate for your RAM
upgrade cost had been included, it would have said $1150.
It's something like $50, yeah, no biggie, much like the cheap video
card.
I liked the i5-10400 without regard to it containing
basic video, that was something convenient for my old
monitor, that I had to replace it with a card was no biggie.
Which is you saying that you're not sensitive to a +10% cost increase.
With the prior insensitivity to your $200 Windows license part, you're
at +$300 over, so you're not sensitive to +30% cost increases.
You're not being a particularly value conscious consumer in IRL
practice: so remind us again about why OEM markups are so 'evil'? /s
The problem is that to get what I have, you have to pay so much up
front, with Apple. There's no question I got equally good components
for less.
I regularly use 16 GB for main usage *plus* more for cache, I even
occasionally go slightly over the full 32 GB when both are factored
in, slightly using swap. I *could* actually move to 48 or 64 GB, if I
were obsessed.
Merely allocating doesn't mean that it actually gets used: what was your
swap performance metric *before* you chose to drop money on a RAM
upgrade? Because without evidence of a performance degradation, you're
again gratuitously spending your money to solve a non-problem.
I watch System Monitor, I see that my 32 GB approaches and even
slightly surpasses getting maxed out, including cache, leading to
minor use of swap.
But it'd be running macOS. :)It raises the question of just maybe perhaps the professionals at the >>>>>> OEMs are just slightly better at this stuff than you personally are. /s >>>>>Not remotely.
In your dreams, unfortunately. As I've already noted, you could have
bought a Mac Mini for less & had comparable/better performing hardware. >>>
Because no Mac ever has been able to run Linux? Pull my other leg.
Now granted, there are some reports that there's not a great version of
Linux for running on the M4 CPUs, but one can always run Linux in a VM
under MacOS ... I've found that Windows11 does fine this way.
I wouldn't buy Apple hardware to run something other than macOS. That
it can isn't really a material point.
On 2024-11-25 09:49, Scout wrote:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9757kjp8pi1klqhk7didm6jdhgo3juutdn@4ax.com...
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 11/24/24 3:21 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-11-24 11:39, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I paid less to get high-end gear.
Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high- >>>>>>>>>>> end" gear?
I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that >>>>>>>>>> you'd
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient
characteristics
which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or >>>>>>>>> 4?
It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid >>>>>>> more
for a name(!).
The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for >>>>>> durability and quality.
You're the one who literally said:
"bragging rights".
While also snipping a whole bunch of other objective metrics.
Gosh, it musta been another "accident"...
...instead of a tacit admission through avoidance that he knows that he >>>> can't support his assertion that he made a rational product decision.
Incorrect. I don't care about benchmarks.
Translation: I don’t care if it's fast or slow...
I care about having a
modern, reliable, functional system.
Which can be dirt slow as long as it looks good....
Don't forget "bragging rights"!
chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
Unless he's doing something graphically
intensive, Joel's 10th-gen i5 should have no trouble driving a 4k
monitor.
To this day, I don't entirely know what the issue was, but Win11 had
serious problems utilizing the i5-10400's video for 4K, with this Acer
brand monitor. If I'd foreseen all the hassles it would give me, I
wouldn't have bought it. Linux distros have had problems with it,
too, even with the NVIDIA card, although my current Debian install
handled it well.
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
So did Microsoft disable your Windows computer or not?I may be mistaken but I seem to remember Joel complaining that Microsoft >>>>somehow disabled his Windows machine and he was unable to repair it.
Joel appears to be a switch hitter in more ways than one. He uses >>>>Windows for
a while, screws it up somehow then switches to Linux and claims Linux >>>>solved
all of his self inflicted issues.
Utter BS. I made an error with regard to *the specific ways* M$ was
committing fraud on Win10 users, although they still were doing such.
I admitted my error, I regretted it, I went back to using Windows 10
and then 11, too. I gave them every chance in the world. But that's
over. I will never disgrace my precious hardware with Winblows,
again.
If I had merely turned on my TV to the HDMI input connected to my old computer's video card, that fiasco never would've happened. Why M$
and Linux distros insist on defaulting to what is clearly a 720p TV,
rather than my actual monitor, I'll never know, but it's something
I've gotten used to.
On 2024-11-26 12:46, Joel wrote:
chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
Unless he's doing something graphically
intensive, Joel's 10th-gen i5 should have no trouble driving a 4k
monitor.
To this day, I don't entirely know what the issue was, but Win11 had
serious problems utilizing the i5-10400's video for 4K, with this Acer
brand monitor. If I'd foreseen all the hassles it would give me, I
wouldn't have bought it. Linux distros have had problems with it,
too, even with the NVIDIA card, although my current Debian install
handled it well.
Sounds like you didn't do your homework...
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
your CPU & Storage benchmarks are literally half of the Apple Studio >>>>>> that you've tried to compare your system against,
I wasn't trying to compare the benchmarks. I was comparing realized >>>>> value.
Fine, but why did you then compare your system to one that's known to
be
vastly more capable? Your "Apples vs Oranges" has become deliberate.
I was comparing to an Apple device currently available, that it is
newer and faster didn't matter, because it was about initial price.
You went upscale instead of choosing one comparable to your PC's i5.
That's like bragging that a Toyota Yaris is cheaper than a Porsche 911 >>while pretending that no other cars exist in the marketplace.
I bought good stuff relative to when I bought it and my needs.
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
my usage hits 16 GB *not* including cache right away
I would clarify, it's actually not quite that when I first boot up and
load everything, but approaching it. It's more when I additionally
load LibreOffice Writer and GIMP, and the PDF viewer, yada yada, it
hits and exceeds 16 GB main RAM use.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I don't mind, the keys can be reused by others. It's a minor write-I didn't even need the Win10 license, it turned out, my Win7 Pro
product key from 2010 would've worked, because it'd been upgraded on >>>>> my previous machine. I've since given both keys away, since I have
zero intention of ever going back to Winblows.
So that's another 'spent too much' research error on your part. Check. >>>
off, I got my use out of Winblows when I used it, I will never want it
back.
That you "don't mind" means ...
...that you're okay with spending 20% more than you really have to(!).
I got my $200 worth out of Win10/11, between when I first booted 20H2
in 2021, and switching to Linux in 2023. No biggie, the key is still
valid for DFS to use, as my Win7 key is for my other friend.
On 2024-11-25 03:18, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:If you hadn't been surprised, you have bought the card from the beginning.
He couldn't future-proof his video system.
?
Are you really so surprised that the CPU's integrated video wouldn't
do well, with 4K? It seems obvious that it'd help to have a discreet
video card, I didn't need an expensive one, it's not a big deal. I'm
glad to spend a little, to get a lot of mileage.
/I'm/ not...
...but apparently you were.
No I wasn't surprised, and I handled it, I bought an inexpensive card.
Big F'ing deal.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
If you hadn't been surprised, you have bought the card from the beginning.He couldn't future-proof his video system.
?
Are you really so surprised that the CPU's integrated video wouldn't >>>>> do well, with 4K? It seems obvious that it'd help to have a discreet >>>>> video card, I didn't need an expensive one, it's not a big deal. I'm >>>>> glad to spend a little, to get a lot of mileage.
/I'm/ not...
...but apparently you were.
No I wasn't surprised, and I handled it, I bought an inexpensive card.
Big F'ing deal.
That's idiotic, are you so bamboozled and brainwashed by Apple that
you don't understand modifying a real, assembled desktop machine, you
fucking moron?
I thought, as chrisv blindly asserted, that the CPU
would work fine, when it didn't, I did an upgrade with a discrete
card, which made a large difference.
It also gave me a second video
port, which allows me to use my TV as a monitor, too. What a
travesty, huh? Derp.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I understand it fine.If you hadn't been surprised, you have bought the card from the
beginning.
That's idiotic, are you so bamboozled and brainwashed by Apple that
you don't understand modifying a real, assembled desktop machine, you
fucking moron? I thought, as chrisv blindly asserted, that the CPU
would work fine, when it didn't, I did an upgrade with a discrete
card, which made a large difference. It also gave me a second video
port, which allows me to use my TV as a monitor, too. What a
travesty, huh? Derp.
I've done it.
And a low end Mac Mini supports up to THREE displays with 6K resolution
on two of them and one more with 5K resolution (if on Thunderbolt) or 4K >>resolution (if on HDMI).
And that's for $600.
So, yeah: you paying more than you had to for a CPU with an integrated
GPU (yeah: I got that wrong in another post. Sorry) and then having to
pay for a discrete video card...
...that was a travesty of good sense.
:-)
I always had the intention to install a video card if there were a
reason to.
The 4K monitor gave me such a reason.
I bought a
motherboard that gave me options.
The notion that I could've bought
the CPU without integrated video is meaningless, trivial difference.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
If you bought a Mac Mini for $600 you'd get support for a lot more inI didn't have a "video controller", why do you keep saying that? It >>>>> was just the CPU's video, which was great for 1080p, not for 4K. Big >>>>> whoop, the cheap card I got is fine since I don't game.
The fact that it was integrated into the motherboard doesn't make it
any
less a video controller, doofus.
You really aren't very 1337 if you don't understand that fact.
It was integrated into the CPU, it's still there, I could put a third
monitor on, I guess, and utilize it along with the NVIDIA card, but
then again I could also buy a Mac like your dumb ass - to speak of
things I will not be doing.
terms of video.
:-)
With 256 GB storage? Heh.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-25 05:59, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
plus yesterday you revealed that you've already replaced the original
video controller because it couldn't handle a single 4K display,
whereas
the Mac Studio you've been using to compare yourself to can handle
five.
I didn't have a "video controller", why do you keep saying that? It
was just the CPU's video, which was great for 1080p, not for 4K. Big
whoop, the cheap card I got is fine since I don't game.
The fact that it was integrated into the motherboard doesn't make it any >>less a video controller, doofus.
You really aren't very 1337 if you don't understand that fact.
It was integrated into the CPU, it's still there, I could put a third
monitor on, I guess, and utilize it along with the NVIDIA card, but
then again I could also buy a Mac like your dumb ass - to speak of
things I will not be doing.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You get that you could increase that, right?If you bought a Mac Mini for $600 you'd get support for a lot more in
terms of video.
:-)
With 256 GB storage? Heh.
Way to miss the point!
OK, well, the Web site says to go from 256 GB to 1 TB is an extra
$400. So, what is your point, pray tell? So is going from 16 GB RAM
to 32 GB, BTW. So, $1400, not $600.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You get that you could increase that, right?If you bought a Mac Mini for $600 you'd get support for a lot more in >>>>>> terms of video.
:-)
With 256 GB storage? Heh.
Way to miss the point!
OK, well, the Web site says to go from 256 GB to 1 TB is an extra
$400. So, what is your point, pray tell? So is going from 16 GB RAM
to 32 GB, BTW. So, $1400, not $600.
Yup. And you get a much more capable system for only a little more than
you ended up paying; an insignificant amount over a reasonable system
life.
I paid under $1000, or so, not counting the software purchases, since
I ended up using Linux exclusively. And my CPU is virtually as good
as the M1, the benchmarks showed the difference isn't really
significant. Face it, Apple is a scam.
On 11/26/24 8:48 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
to go from 256 GB to 1 TB is an extra
$400. So, what is your point, pray tell? So is going from 16 GB RAM >>>>>> to 32 GB, BTW. So, $1400, not $600.
Yup. And you get a much more capable system for only a little more
than
you ended up paying; an insignificant amount over a reasonable system >>>>> life.
Less than Joel actually spent, by accepting SSD performance that's only
equal to his current, instead of 2x as fast by using a external, and skip
the RAM upgrade as a BS claim:
Base Mini with SSD bumped to 512 +1TB external SSD: $800 +$100 = $900.
Outcome: significantly superior performing hardware, and with 1.5TB total storage instead of just 1TB...for 22% less money.
And one _still_ has the option of running Linux on it, plus there's zero financial cost to go back to MacOS if you decide that was a mistake.
Yon Wane <"yonwane-lol!"@pac2.com> wrote:
I'll take Harris's manners of speech over Trump's rambling nonsense,
are you kidding? The fantasies he drooled out, at those rallies full
of uneducable crackers? What a farce.
Let's revisit what you think about those "fantasies" in six months. I'm >>personally looking forward to reality shock for indoctrinated libtards.
As for the uneducable crackers, are you referring to the illiterate genZ >>tranny 'tards, or the left-wing smart phone operators who can't even
pass 30, 60, or 90 day probationary hiring periods?
We aren't going to live in a dictatorship.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-25 04:44, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
32 GB [RAM] is about right, for my usage.
Not today it isn't: it is still being underutilized at ~3 years system >>>> age, which undermines your claimed argument of the value of moduarlity >>>> for lower lifecycle costs. Looks like you were 5+ years too early in
spending money for RAM that you won't really need until after 2027.
As my computer stays booted up, RAM use approaches the full quantity,
including cache. I watch this in System Monitor.
So Linux is bad at memory management, is it?
It's not a matter of managing it, it's a matter of using what's
available. I give the system enough to leave an insane amount of
stuff in cache.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I bought good stuff relative to when I bought it and my needs.
Except for how you claimed to have promptly had to upgrade your video,
showing that you didn't really buy "good" stuff: you bought marginal
gear which per your claim didn't even support 'state of the shelf'.
The CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU. The NVIDIA card is an
add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along.
WTF are you harping on that for?
My computer's beginning to age, and yet because I'm running
Linux, this has no meaning to me. It might as well still be brand >>>>>>> new. Same thing with my Galaxy S21 phone, it's still as good as new >>>>>>> to me, I don't miss gimmicky features that an S24 would offer.
Oh, so its just barely 3 years old and you've already noticing that it >>>>>> is aging?
I did after 2 1/2 years with Win11, but I don't with Linux, no.
What changed in your software/useage to have 'degraded' Windows?
I've used Windows for decades: the era of 'bitrot' was circa XP.
It's just heavier demands on hardware.
Which was more of doing what? Games? Computational Fluid Dynamics?
Just existing, M$ steals CPU cycles.
M$ is not in the consumer's interest. Linux is.
With a ~65% market share, how is MS not clearly consumers' #1 choice?
It goes to show how much they know.
nothing to indicate that you actually needed the upgrades that
you've already paid for, especially RAM.
Wrong, my usage hits 16 GB *not* including cache right away. 32 GB is
a very reasonable amount to have.
You sure that it didn't hit 16GB because you set up the 16GB cache?
Change to a 4GB cache and tell us what amount it says its usage hits.
I didn't mess with anything of that nature, I just let the OS work.
And for figure, the only one that isn't directly from what you provided >>>> is the cost of your +16GB RAM upgrade. I estimated it was +$50 for
which you've protested but not provided its actual cost....
...and since that +$50 isn't included in the "$1100 invested" statement >>>> above, you have zero basis to complain: had my estimate for your RAM
upgrade cost had been included, it would have said $1150.
It's something like $50, yeah, no biggie, much like the cheap video
card.
But it still all adds up. As has been already noted, you've overpaid by
a good 30% while getting less capability overall.
Not in the least, I got good prices at the times I purchased the gear,
it adds up to a great value, long-lasting with Linux, unlike Winblows
11.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I bought good stuff relative to when I bought it and my needs.
Except for how you claimed to have promptly had to upgrade your video, >>showing that you didn't really buy "good" stuff: you bought marginal
gear which per your claim didn't even support 'state of the shelf'.
The CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU.
The NVIDIA card is an
add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along.
WTF are you harping on that for?
My computer's beginning to age, and yet because I'm running
Linux, this has no meaning to me. It might as well still be brand >>>>>>> new. Same thing with my Galaxy S21 phone, it's still as good as new >>>>>>> to me, I don't miss gimmicky features that an S24 would offer.
Oh, so its just barely 3 years old and you've already noticing that >>>>>> it
is aging?
I did after 2 1/2 years with Win11, but I don't with Linux, no.
What changed in your software/useage to have 'degraded' Windows?
I've used Windows for decades: the era of 'bitrot' was circa XP.
It's just heavier demands on hardware.
Which was more of doing what? Games? Computational Fluid Dynamics?
Just existing, M$ steals CPU cycles.
M$ is not in the consumer's interest. Linux is.
With a ~65% market share, how is MS not clearly consumers' #1 choice?
It goes to show how much they know.
nothing to indicate that you actually needed the upgrades that
you've already paid for, especially RAM.
Wrong, my usage hits 16 GB *not* including cache right away. 32 GB is
a very reasonable amount to have.
You sure that it didn't hit 16GB because you set up the 16GB cache?
Change to a 4GB cache and tell us what amount it says its usage hits.
I didn't mess with anything of that nature, I just let the OS work.
And for figure, the only one that isn't directly from what you provided >>>> is the cost of your +16GB RAM upgrade. I estimated it was +$50 for
which you've protested but not provided its actual cost....
...and since that +$50 isn't included in the "$1100 invested" statement >>>> above, you have zero basis to complain: had my estimate for your RAM
upgrade cost had been included, it would have said $1150.
It's something like $50, yeah, no biggie, much like the cheap video
card.
But it still all adds up. As has been already noted, you've overpaid by
a good 30% while getting less capability overall.
Not in the least, I got good prices at the times I purchased the gear,
it adds up to a great value, long-lasting with Linux, unlike Winblows
11.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I bought good stuff relative to when I bought it and my needs.
Except for how you claimed to have promptly had to upgrade your video, >>>> showing that you didn't really buy "good" stuff: you bought marginal
gear which per your claim didn't even support 'state of the shelf'.
The CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU. The NVIDIA card is an
add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along.
WTF are you harping on that for?
It would be incidental if you hadn't ended up paying twice for video.
Uh, I didn't. The NVIDIA card is the only card I've put in, in the
lifetime of the machine.
M$ is not in the consumer's interest. Linux is.
With a ~65% market share, how is MS not clearly consumers' #1 choice?
It goes to show how much they know.
The combined knowledge of three people is more than what you know...
Doubtful, I'm an expert, having used and observed the hardware and
software in recent years.
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message news:s3kckj5omrimu2r25rnj5mfr02d0bhafi1@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
If you hadn't been surprised, you have bought the card from theHe couldn't future-proof his video system.
?
Are you really so surprised that the CPU's integrated video wouldn't >>>>>> do well, with 4K? It seems obvious that it'd help to have a discreet >>>>>> video card, I didn't need an expensive one, it's not a big deal. I'm >>>>>> glad to spend a little, to get a lot of mileage.
/I'm/ not...
...but apparently you were.
No I wasn't surprised, and I handled it, I bought an inexpensive card. >>>> Big F'ing deal.
beginning.
That's idiotic, are you so bamboozled and brainwashed by Apple that
you don't understand modifying a real, assembled desktop machine, you
fucking moron?
Says the person who couldn't get a monitor to work with his compatible hardware.
I thought, as chrisv blindly asserted, that the CPU
would work fine, when it didn't, I did an upgrade with a discrete
card, which made a large difference.
You 'thought'? I thought you were the person who was an expert on
computer software and hardware. I mean it's a "high end system" so why
did you need to buy extra hardware that you didn't need?
It also gave me a second video
port, which allows me to use my TV as a monitor, too. What a
travesty, huh? Derp.
Which off course you didn't plan on or you would have provided for that
when you built the system in the first place. It was only after you
decided you fucked up that you had the capacity and now could do so...
even though this is the first hint you've ever made to having a dual
monitor setup. Sounds like someone making it up as their errors are
pointed out.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I bought good stuff relative to when I bought it and my needs.
Except for how you claimed to have promptly had to upgrade your video, >>>> showing that you didn't really buy "good" stuff: you bought marginal
gear which per your claim didn't even support 'state of the shelf'.
The CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU. The NVIDIA card is an
add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along.
WTF are you harping on that for?
It would be incidental if you hadn't ended up paying twice for video.
Uh, I didn't. The NVIDIA card is the only card I've put in, in the
lifetime of the machine.
M$ is not in the consumer's interest. Linux is.
With a ~65% market share, how is MS not clearly consumers' #1 choice?
It goes to show how much they know.
The combined knowledge of three people is more than what you know...
Doubtful, I'm an expert, having used and observed the hardware and🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
software in recent years.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
The CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU. The NVIDIA card is an >>>>> add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along. >>>>> WTF are you harping on that for?
It would be incidental if you hadn't ended up paying twice for video.
Uh, I didn't. The NVIDIA card is the only card I've put in, in the
lifetime of the machine.
Incorrect: your first video controller was the one that came integrated
into your i5 (the "F" version is cheaper & comes without) which you paid
for. That makes the NVIDIA card you bought later the second one.
??? Are you on acid? I didn't even consider buying a different
version of the CPU. Never even occurred to me in any respect. I had
seen a Linux OEM offering a prefab machine with the i5-10400, and
began the process of designing my box with that chip, not even
realizing there was a non-video-containing version.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-27 11:19, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
The CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU. The NVIDIA card is an >>>>> add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along. >>>>> WTF are you harping on that for?
It would be incidental if you hadn't ended up paying twice for video.
Uh, I didn't. The NVIDIA card is the only card I've put in, in the
lifetime of the machine.
Uh, you did.
You paid once for a CPU with an integrated GPU...
So what?
...then paid again for a separate card when the "expert" couldn't figure
out how to make his integrated GPU work with a 4K monitor.
It's not that it didn't work *at all*, it had erroneous results that
were intolerable. Misaligned windows, etc.
????????????????????????????????????It goes to show how much they know.M$ is not in the consumer's interest. Linux is.
With a ~65% market share, how is MS not clearly consumers' #1 choice? >>>>>
The combined knowledge of three people is more than what you know...
Doubtful, I'm an expert, having used and observed the hardware and
software in recent years.
It's true, I've seen the evolution of Win10, and of Win11 up to 23H2/ Copilot. But future iterations, I will not be an expert on M$ OSes,"Seen the evolution of" does not mean "expert".
because I'll be using Linux from the beginning, on new devices I may
obtain.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
The CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU. The NVIDIA card is an >>>>> add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along. >>>>> WTF are you harping on that for?
It would be incidental if you hadn't ended up paying twice for video.
Uh, I didn't. The NVIDIA card is the only card I've put in, in the
lifetime of the machine.
Incorrect: your first video controller was the one that came integrated
into your i5 (the "F" version is cheaper & comes without) which you paid
for. That makes the NVIDIA card you bought later the second one.
??? Are you on acid? I didn't even consider buying a different
version of the CPU. Never even occurred to me in any respect.
I had seen a Linux OEM offering a prefab machine with the i5-10400,
and began the process of designing my box with that chip, not even
realizing there was a non-video-containing version.
It goes to show how much they know.M$ is not in the consumer's interest. Linux is.
With a ~65% market share, how is MS not clearly consumers' #1 choice? >>>>>
The combined knowledge of three people is more than what you know...
Doubtful, I'm an expert, having used and observed the hardware and
software in recent years.
Not in this you're not, for you've shown us that you've spent 30% more
(that we know of) than you had to for your capability.
I got a great deal, period.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I didn't even consider buying a different
version of the [Intel i5-10400] CPU. Never even occurred to me in any respect. I had
seen a Linux OEM offering a prefab machine with the i5-10400, and
began the process of designing my box with that chip, not even
realizing there was a non-video-containing version.
So you're not as expert as you claim...
At the time, I was rusty. It'd been 10 years and counting, since my
last build. I wasn't used to the idea of video being integrated in
the CPU. But I liked the idea, since I could put off the possibility
of investing in a discrete card. How is that a failure? By the time
I bought the card I did, I got a great value. It all fell into place.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
I bought good stuff relative to when I bought it and my needs.
Except for how you claimed to have promptly had to upgrade your video, >>>> showing that you didn't really buy "good" stuff: you bought marginal
gear which per your claim didn't even support 'state of the shelf'.
The CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU. The NVIDIA card is an
add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along.
WTF are you harping on that for?
It would be incidental if you hadn't ended up paying twice for video.
Uh, I didn't. The NVIDIA card is the only card I've put in, in the
lifetime of the machine.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I didn't even consider buying a different
version of the [Intel i5-10400] CPU. Never even occurred to me in any
respect. I had
seen a Linux OEM offering a prefab machine with the i5-10400, and
began the process of designing my box with that chip, not even
realizing there was a non-video-containing version.
So you're not as expert as you claim...
At the time, I was rusty.
It'd been 10 years and counting, since my
last build.
I wasn't used to the idea of video being integrated in
the CPU.
But I liked the idea, since I could put off the possibility
of investing in a discrete card.
How is that a failure?
By the time
I bought the card I did, I got a great value. It all fell into place.
On 2024-11-27 08:55, Scout wrote:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:s3kckj5omrimu2r25rnj5mfr02d0bhafi1@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
If you hadn't been surprised, you have bought the card from theHe couldn't future-proof his video system.
?
Are you really so surprised that the CPU's integrated video wouldn't >>>>>>> do well, with 4K? It seems obvious that it'd help to have a
discreet
video card, I didn't need an expensive one, it's not a big deal. >>>>>>> I'm
glad to spend a little, to get a lot of mileage.
/I'm/ not...
...but apparently you were.
No I wasn't surprised, and I handled it, I bought an inexpensive card. >>>>> Big F'ing deal.
beginning.
That's idiotic, are you so bamboozled and brainwashed by Apple that
you don't understand modifying a real, assembled desktop machine, you
fucking moron?
Says the person who couldn't get a monitor to work with his compatible
hardware.
I thought, as chrisv blindly asserted, that the CPU
would work fine, when it didn't, I did an upgrade with a discrete
card, which made a large difference.
You 'thought'? I thought you were the person who was an expert on
computer software and hardware. I mean it's a "high end system" so why
did you need to buy extra hardware that you didn't need?
It also gave me a second video
port, which allows me to use my TV as a monitor, too. What a
travesty, huh? Derp.
Which off course you didn't plan on or you would have provided for that
when you built the system in the first place. It was only after you
decided you fucked up that you had the capacity and now could do so...
even though this is the first hint you've ever made to having a dual
monitor setup. Sounds like someone making it up as their errors are
pointed out.
Hey...
Joel isn't just an expert...
...he's "elite"!
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
The CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU. The NVIDIA card is an >>>>> add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along. >>>>> WTF are you harping on that for?
It would be incidental if you hadn't ended up paying twice for video.
Uh, I didn't. The NVIDIA card is the only card I've put in, in the
lifetime of the machine.
Incorrect: your first video controller was the one that came integrated >>into your i5 (the "F" version is cheaper & comes without) which you paid >>for. That makes the NVIDIA card you bought later the second one.
??? Are you on acid? I didn't even consider buying a different
version of the CPU.
Never even occurred to me in any respect.
I had
seen a Linux OEM offering a prefab machine with the i5-10400, and
began the process of designing my box with that chip, not even
realizing there was a non-video-containing version.
It goes to show how much they know.M$ is not in the consumer's interest. Linux is.
With a ~65% market share, how is MS not clearly consumers' #1 choice? >>>>>
The combined knowledge of three people is more than what you know...
Doubtful, I'm an expert, having used and observed the hardware and
software in recent years.
Not in this you're not, for you've shown us that you've spent 30% more >>(that we know of) than you had to for your capability.
I got a great deal, period.
On 2024-11-27 12:54, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I didn't even consider buying a different
version of the [Intel i5-10400] CPU. Never even occurred to me in any >>>> respect. I had
seen a Linux OEM offering a prefab machine with the i5-10400, and
began the process of designing my box with that chip, not even
realizing there was a non-video-containing version.
So you're not as expert as you claim...
At the time, I was rusty. It'd been 10 years and counting, since my
last build. I wasn't used to the idea of video being integrated in
the CPU. But I liked the idea, since I could put off the possibility
of investing in a discrete card. How is that a failure? By the time
I bought the card I did, I got a great value. It all fell into place.
Well, you do appear to be very expert...
...at excuses.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Uh, I didn't. The NVIDIA card is the only card I've put in, in theThe CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU. The NVIDIA card is >>>>>>> an
add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along. >>>>>>> WTF are you harping on that for?
It would be incidental if you hadn't ended up paying twice for video. >>>>>
lifetime of the machine.
Incorrect: your first video controller was the one that came
integrated
into your i5 (the "F" version is cheaper & comes without) which you
paid
for. That makes the NVIDIA card you bought later the second one.
??? Are you on acid? I didn't even consider buying a different
version of the CPU. Never even occurred to me in any respect.
The "expert" failed in doing his basic research? Actually, it is as I >>noted quite understandable, as per Schwartz's "Paradox of Choice".
I had seen a Linux OEM offering a prefab machine with the i5-10400,
and began the process of designing my box with that chip, not even
realizing there was a non-video-containing version.
Its common knowledge that CPUs are equipped with (& without) integrated >>graphics for years now amongst the experts & geeks. Counts you out.
I *wanted* the CPU's video *initially*, but *knew* it might not be a permanent thing. The 4K screen turned out to be *why*, but there were
other potential reasons, including wanting a second display.
Doubtful, I'm an expert, having used and observed the hardware andM$ is not in the consumer's interest. Linux is.
With a ~65% market share, how is MS not clearly consumers' #1
choice?
It goes to show how much they know.
The combined knowledge of three people is more than what you know... >>>>>
software in recent years.
Not in this you're not, for you've shown us that you've spent 30% more >>>> (that we know of) than you had to for your capability.
I got a great deal, period.
Well, if you _really_ want to call it that, then many other people got >>*FABULOUS!* deals compared to yours, including many Apple customers.
Apple customers who are cool with 128 GB SSDs (now 256!!! heh) are
welcome to feel they got a good deal.
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
...
By the time
I bought the card I did, I got a great value. It all fell into place.
Anything you had to pay wasn't a great deal no matter how little you
paid when you had already paid extra to have the capability you couldn't
use.
"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
The NVIDIA card is the only card I've put in, in the
lifetime of the machine.
Pretty damn short life....
Nope, it has an expected many years to come.
"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >>news:vi7s25$3tpm$1@dont-email.me...
Hey...
Joel isn't just an expert...
...he's "elite"!
He wishes.. he's just a 'poser' there is NOTHING elite about his hardware, >>his setup, or even his knowledge.
If you knew what it's like having Linux on a modern system you would
never say that.
"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message >>news:enuekj17nd4h75dqpejg8d5rbntjet1rrv@4ax.com...
I had
seen a Linux OEM offering a prefab machine with the i5-10400, and
began the process of designing my box with that chip, not even
realizing there was a non-video-containing version.
Your admission of ignorance is also seen.
It was irrelevant.
I wanted the standard 10400.
I got a great deal, period.
Clearly you did not. I have far better hardware and spent a fraction of >>what
you paid.
You're running Windows 7, dipshit.
"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >>news:vi8bo2$7jug$1@dont-email.me...
On 2024-11-27 12:54, Joel wrote:
Well, you do appear to be very expert...
...at excuses.
BOOM!
What's your excuse for claiming elite status with Win7?
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
we hear Joel say that they moved an existing 1TB
NVMe from their old PC to their new PC 2-3 years ago now
That's not what I said, and is in fact indicative you are either
really bad at tracking time or bad at math. How the fuck would a
computer from 2010, even one as nice as that one was when new, have
NVMe support?
2021, right? So for the purposes of this example, 3 years to date.
Joel's answer goes here.
And here, although perhaps you should separate OS consumption fromactual personal data, since you were originally under Windows, not Linux.
so the baseline becomes 3 years instead of 5. We'll wait to see ifJoel actually has insight on his data growth or not before bothering to
"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >>news:vi7s25$3tpm$1@dont-email.me...
Hey...
Joel isn't just an expert...
...he's "elite"!
He wishes.. he's just a 'poser' there is NOTHING elite about his
hardware, his setup, or even his knowledge.
If you knew what it's like having Linux on a modern system you would
never say that.
"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
He wishes.. he's just a 'poser' there is NOTHING elite about his >>>>hardware,
his setup, or even his knowledge.
If you knew what it's like having Linux on a modern system you would
never say that.
Given your inability to handle the hardware... why do I find myself less >>than moved by your empty claims you know software?
Upgrade to Win8.1 and we'll talk, heh.
"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
I got a great deal, period.
Clearly you did not. I have far better hardware and spent a fraction of >>>>what
you paid.
You're running Windows 7, dipshit.
Which has WHAT to do with my hardware capabilities?
Oh, let me guess you don't know the difference between hardware and >>software.
If you wanted a sleek OS like Win7, relative to modern hardware
comparable to mine, you'd run Linux.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
we hear Joel say that they moved an existing 1TB
NVMe from their old PC to their new PC 2-3 years ago now
That's not what I said, and is in fact indicative you are either
really bad at tracking time or bad at math. How the fuck would a
computer from 2010, even one as nice as that one was when new, have
NVMe support?
It didn't even have SATA 3 with its SSD or HDDs.
I
could have used that drive with SATA 3 in the new machine,
but I
wanted to spend the measly $110 for a quality NVMe, unlike with Apple
it was a modest component.
"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
What's your excuse for claiming elite status with Win7?
I never claimed to be elite. I use Win7 because it supports software which >>I
already have purchased, which still totally fulfills my needs. While
giving
me far more performance using far less resources than Win11 or even
current
Linux. I mean you're claiming you need, what, 32GB of main memory?
Meanwhile, you have claimed that status despite regularly posting your >>failures and poor decisions with both software and hardware.
Of course, you have a long history of admitting to the bad choices you
have
made in your life.
32 GB is hardly excessive today.
Maybe if you didn't cling to Win7
you'd realize that.
If you were still using a Vista/XP computer or
even one originally running 7 I'd get it, but 8.x was a legit upgrade,
install Classic Shell and it was fine,
and 10 started out as one, it
isn't anymore.
But you could run supported Linux that'd be far more
advanced than Win7.
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message news:ff2skjteoife8dvrhueila7vc7rt9vbpo4@4ax.com...
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
we hear Joel say that they moved an existing 1TB
NVMe from their old PC to their new PC 2-3 years ago now
That's not what I said, and is in fact indicative you are either
really bad at tracking time or bad at math. How the fuck would a
computer from 2010, even one as nice as that one was when new, have
NVMe support?
Well someone as 'elite' as you would probably have a PCI adaptor card.
It didn't even have SATA 3 with its SSD or HDDs.
Really? You had a year since it was released. Are you telling us you
could find no motherboards with SATA3?
I could have used that drive with SATA 3 in the new machine,
Then you wouldn't have even been out of your investment when you
upgraded your motherboard.
but I wanted to spend the measly $110 for a quality NVMe, unlike
with Apple it was a modest component.
Well, you do seem to love wasting money.
"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
I
could have used that [SSD] drive with SATA 3 in the new machine,
Then you wouldn't have even been out of your investment when you upgraded >>your motherboard.
but I
wanted to spend the measly $110 for a quality NVMe, unlike with Apple
it was a modest component.
Well, you do seem to love wasting money.
I kept investing in the old computer as a second machine, which was reasonable given my new one had Windows for 2 1/2 years.
"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
I
could have used that [SSD] drive with SATA 3 in the new machine,
Then you wouldn't have even been out of your investment when you upgraded >>>> your motherboard.
but I
wanted to spend the measly $110 for a quality NVMe, unlike with Apple >>>>> it was a modest component.
Well, you do seem to love wasting money.
I kept investing in the old computer as a second machine, which was
reasonable given my new one had Windows for 2 1/2 years.
Thus I prove my point.
Using the SATA SSD merely because I possessed it would have been anAnd yet you're the one who said that saving a few seconds wasn't important?
error. The NVMe drive pays for itself, in use.
On 12/3/24 9:58 AM, Scout wrote:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ff2skjteoife8dvrhueila7vc7rt9vbpo4@4ax.com...
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
we hear Joel say that they moved an existing 1TB
NVMe from their old PC to their new PC 2-3 years ago now
That's not what I said, and is in fact indicative you are either
really bad at tracking time or bad at math. How the fuck would a
computer from 2010, even one as nice as that one was when new, have
NVMe support?
Well someone as 'elite' as you would probably have a PCI adaptor card.
That's what I did back in 2012. Way back in that era, it benchmarked to 600MB/sec Read, 300MB/sec Write.
It didn't even have SATA 3 with its SSD or HDDs.
Really? You had a year since it was released. Are you telling us you
could find no motherboards with SATA3?
Even if he had, a HDD on SATA-3 wasn't able to saturate the interface to
get anywhere close to its theoretical 600MB/sec limit. SSDs do better, but due to the interface's overhead, its effective limit is 550 MB/sec. Moving
to NVMe directly on PCIe is better still (4x4: ~5000 MB/sec), but we've
still not seen benchmark data from Joel. Plus...
I could have used that drive with SATA 3 in the new machine,
Then you wouldn't have even been out of your investment when you upgraded
your motherboard.
but I wanted to spend the measly $110 for a quality NVMe, unlike with
Apple it was a modest component.
Well, you do seem to love wasting money.
...there's nothing wrong with pursuing the Price:Performance sweet spot of State of the Shelf, but doing so doesn't make it a "high end" system to
brag about if its trying to compare current tech to 2010 tech: stuff *of course* got better, particularly for the State of the Shelf.
High end today starts at at least PCI4, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2, or Thunderbolt 3
(20 Gb/s), but stepping up today really means to PCIe 5 or TB4 to have
double that bandwidth, and to TB5 for another doubling. These are all
just IT applications of the old racing motto: "Speed costs money. How fast can you afford to go?", and unless your workflow materially benefits from
it, it is wasted money on mere bragging rights.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Using the SATA SSD merely because I possessed it would have been an
error. The NVMe drive pays for itself, in use.
And yet you're the one who said that saving a few seconds wasn't
important?
It's not a few seconds, it's many seconds, it's your main storage. I'm definitely leaving that SATA drive to my old computer, to make it
useful.
"Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
I
could have used that [SSD] drive with SATA 3 in the new machine,
Then you wouldn't have even been out of your investment when you >>>>upgraded
your motherboard.
but I
wanted to spend the measly $110 for a quality NVMe, unlike with Apple >>>>> it was a modest component.
Well, you do seem to love wasting money.
I kept investing in the old computer as a second machine, which was
reasonable given my new one had Windows for 2 1/2 years.
Thus I prove my point.
Using the SATA SSD merely because I possessed it would have been an
error. The NVMe drive pays for itself, in use.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-11-23 18:12, Joel wrote:
"it [Windows 10] was a minor upgrade to Win8.1"
Uh, I had Windows 8.x and early Windows 10 on my old computer. I know >>>>> what the fuck I'm talking about, that's why I'm reading this thread in >>>>> COLA, where we debate OSes.
So what you have is purely a personal anecdote.
Got it.
No, it's not an anecdote.
Yes. It was.
I was a comp sci major, while I was inThat is precisely what a personal anecdote is.
college. I pay attention to finer details. I know what Windows 10
was in 2015, vs. 2020 and later.
Dude, I saw 20H2 on two machines. I saw Win11 from day one. I have
earned the place to be a critic.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Joel actually spent [allegedly too much], by accepting SSD performance that's only
equal to his current, instead of 2x as fast by using a external, and
skip the RAM upgrade as a BS claim:
Base Mini with SSD bumped to 512 +1TB external SSD: $800 +$100 = $900.
Outcome: significantly superior performing hardware, and with 1.5TB
total storage instead of just 1TB...for 22% less money.
And one _still_ has the option of running Linux on it, plus there's zero
financial cost to go back to MacOS if you decide that was a mistake.
My parts stand at under $1000.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
My parts stand at under $1000.
Yes, your hardware's at ~$950, because you've been desperately trying to
ignore the $200 that you also spent on a Windows license as a mistake.
Unfortunately, "do-overs" from mistakes is part of the risk of DIY'ing.
Just ask that guy who bought a 4100 graphics card after his integrated
GPU was supposedly inadequate for supporting even but one 4K display.
The Windows Pro license was simply to use until Linux was preferable.
I got my money's worth out of it..
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-07 14:03, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
My parts stand at under $1000.
Yes, your hardware's at ~$950, because you've been desperately trying to >>>> ignore the $200 that you also spent on a Windows license as a mistake. >>>>
Unfortunately, "do-overs" from mistakes is part of the risk of DIY'ing. >>>> Just ask that guy who bought a 4100 graphics card after his integrated >>>> GPU was supposedly inadequate for supporting even but one 4K display.
The Windows Pro license was simply to use until Linux was preferable.
I got my money's worth out of it..
You bought something that wasn't useful to you.
You are saying I didn't find Win10/11 useful. That is coming out of
your ass.
On 2024-12-07 14:39, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-07 14:03, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
The Windows Pro license was simply to use until Linux was preferable.My parts stand at under $1000.
Yes, your hardware's at ~$950, because you've been desperately trying to >>>>> ignore the $200 that you also spent on a Windows license as a mistake. >>>>>
Unfortunately, "do-overs" from mistakes is part of the risk of DIY'ing. >>>>> Just ask that guy who bought a 4100 graphics card after his integrated >>>>> GPU was supposedly inadequate for supporting even but one 4K display. >>>>
I got my money's worth out of it..
You bought something that wasn't useful to you.
You are saying I didn't find Win10/11 useful. That is coming out of
your ass.
The fact that you're no longer using something you (over) paid for kind
of proves it wasn't useful to you.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-07 14:39, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-07 14:03, Joel wrote:
The Windows Pro license was simply to use until Linux was preferable. >>>>> I got my money's worth out of it..
You bought something that wasn't useful to you.
You are saying I didn't find Win10/11 useful. That is coming out of
your ass.
The fact that you're no longer using something you (over) paid for kind
of proves it wasn't useful to you.
So the 2 1/2 years between installing Win10 initially, and deletingNo, they don't.
Win11, don't mean anything? Are you stupid?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No, they don't.The Windows Pro license was simply to use until Linux was preferable. >>>>>>> I got my money's worth out of it..
You bought something that wasn't useful to you.
You are saying I didn't find Win10/11 useful. That is coming out of >>>>> your ass.
The fact that you're no longer using something you (over) paid for kind >>>> of proves it wasn't useful to you.
So the 2 1/2 years between installing Win10 initially, and deleting
Win11, don't mean anything? Are you stupid?
Because you've declared it wasn't good enough by the fact that you
subsequently installed Linux.
What the fuck are you talking about? I installed Linux *at the time*
that the time had come. I got my 2 1/2 years with Winblows.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No, they don't.The fact that you're no longer using something you (over) paid for kind >>>>>> of proves it wasn't useful to you.
So the 2 1/2 years between installing Win10 initially, and deleting
Win11, don't mean anything? Are you stupid?
Because you've declared it wasn't good enough by the fact that you
subsequently installed Linux.
What the fuck are you talking about? I installed Linux *at the time*
that the time had come. I got my 2 1/2 years with Winblows.
So you're both claiming it was a good purchase (implicitly)...
...AND calling it "Winblows".
Interesting.
Yeah, it ran fantastically for a couple years, then I moved on.
ThisAs one who supports users of Windows (10, 11, and to a much lesser
is probably common, among savvy computer users, who know that
Microsoft supports new hardware, but even the slightest aging makes
Linux the better choice. And lo and behold, that's what I did.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I installed Linux *at the time*
that the time had come. I got my 2 1/2 years with Winblows.
So you're both claiming it was a good purchase (implicitly)...
...AND calling it "Winblows".
Interesting.
Yeah, it ran fantastically for a couple years, then I moved on.
That doesn't jibe with calling it "Winblows".
I mean... ...it didn't change, right?
It *did* change, genius, what do you think those "cumulative updates"
are doing?
ThisAs one who supports users of Windows (10, 11, and to a much lesser
is probably common, among savvy computer users, who know that
Microsoft supports new hardware, but even the slightest aging makes
Linux the better choice. And lo and behold, that's what I did.
extent, earlier versions), I can tell you that the problem is NOT aging
hardware.
But you in your technical incompetence wouldn't have figured that out.
Maybe you're tolerant of hard drives and slow SSDs booting modernNope.
Winblows, I don't know, that's your headache. I'm going to keep being
a pioneer of great computing, proudly showing how Linux makes a
machine worth something.
That is coming out of your ass.
Joel wrote:
That is coming out of your ass.You prefer to have someone coming *in* your ass.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Joel actually spent [allegedly too much], by accepting SSD performance >>that's only
equal to his current, instead of 2x as fast by using a external, and
skip the RAM upgrade as a BS claim:
Base Mini with SSD bumped to 512 +1TB external SSD: $800 +$100 = $900.
Outcome: significantly superior performing hardware, and with 1.5TB
total storage instead of just 1TB...for 22% less money.
And one _still_ has the option of running Linux on it, plus there's zero >>financial cost to go back to MacOS if you decide that was a mistake.
My parts stand at under $1000.
On 12/6/24 7:28 PM, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Joel actually spent [allegedly too much], by accepting SSD performance
that's only
equal to his current, instead of 2x as fast by using a external, and
skip the RAM upgrade as a BS claim:
Base Mini with SSD bumped to 512 +1TB external SSD: $800 +$100 = $900.
Outcome: significantly superior performing hardware, and with 1.5TB
total storage instead of just 1TB...for 22% less money.
And one _still_ has the option of running Linux on it, plus there's zero >>> financial cost to go back to MacOS if you decide that was a mistake.
My parts stand at under $1000.
Yes, your hardware's at ~$950, because you've been desperately trying to ignore the $200 that you also spent on a Windows license as a mistake.
Unfortunately, "do-overs" from mistakes is part of the risk of DIY'ing.
Just ask that guy who bought a 4100 graphics card after his integrated GPU was supposedly inadequate for supporting even but one 4K display.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
My parts stand at under $1000.
Yes, your hardware's at ~$950, because you've been desperately trying to >>ignore the $200 that you also spent on a Windows license as a mistake.
Unfortunately, "do-overs" from mistakes is part of the risk of DIY'ing. >>Just ask that guy who bought a 4100 graphics card after his integrated
GPU was supposedly inadequate for supporting even but one 4K display.
The Windows Pro license was simply to use until Linux was preferable.
I got my money's worth out of it..
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-07 14:03, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
My parts stand at under $1000.
Yes, your hardware's at ~$950, because you've been desperately trying
to
ignore the $200 that you also spent on a Windows license as a mistake. >>>>
Unfortunately, "do-overs" from mistakes is part of the risk of DIY'ing. >>>> Just ask that guy who bought a 4100 graphics card after his integrated >>>> GPU was supposedly inadequate for supporting even but one 4K display.
The Windows Pro license was simply to use until Linux was preferable.
I got my money's worth out of it..
You bought something that wasn't useful to you.
You are saying I didn't find Win10/11 useful. That is coming out of
your ass.
On 2024-12-07 14:39, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-07 14:03, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
The Windows Pro license was simply to use until Linux was preferable.My parts stand at under $1000.
Yes, your hardware's at ~$950, because you've been desperately trying >>>>> to
ignore the $200 that you also spent on a Windows license as a mistake. >>>>>
Unfortunately, "do-overs" from mistakes is part of the risk of
DIY'ing.
Just ask that guy who bought a 4100 graphics card after his integrated >>>>> GPU was supposedly inadequate for supporting even but one 4K display. >>>>
I got my money's worth out of it..
You bought something that wasn't useful to you.
You are saying I didn't find Win10/11 useful. That is coming out of
your ass.
The fact that you're no longer using something you (over) paid for kind of proves it wasn't useful to you.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-07 14:39, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-07 14:03, Joel wrote:
The Windows Pro license was simply to use until Linux was preferable. >>>>> I got my money's worth out of it..
You bought something that wasn't useful to you.
You are saying I didn't find Win10/11 useful. That is coming out of
your ass.
The fact that you're no longer using something you (over) paid for kind
of proves it wasn't useful to you.
So the 2 1/2 years between installing Win10 initially, and deleting
Win11, don't mean anything? Are you stupid?
On 2024-12-07 15:53, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:No, they don't.
On 2024-12-07 14:39, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-07 14:03, Joel wrote:
The Windows Pro license was simply to use until Linux was preferable. >>>>>> I got my money's worth out of it..
You bought something that wasn't useful to you.
You are saying I didn't find Win10/11 useful. That is coming out of
your ass.
The fact that you're no longer using something you (over) paid for kind
of proves it wasn't useful to you.
So the 2 1/2 years between installing Win10 initially, and deleting
Win11, don't mean anything? Are you stupid?
Because you've declared it wasn't good enough by the fact that you subsequently installed Linux.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No, they don't.The Windows Pro license was simply to use until Linux was
preferable.
I got my money's worth out of it..
You bought something that wasn't useful to you.
You are saying I didn't find Win10/11 useful. That is coming out of >>>>> your ass.
The fact that you're no longer using something you (over) paid for kind >>>> of proves it wasn't useful to you.
So the 2 1/2 years between installing Win10 initially, and deleting
Win11, don't mean anything? Are you stupid?
Because you've declared it wasn't good enough by the fact that you >>subsequently installed Linux.
What the fuck are you talking about? I installed Linux *at the time*
that the time had come. I got my 2 1/2 years with Winblows.
On 2024-12-07 16:19, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No, they don't.The Windows Pro license was simply to use until Linux was
preferable.
I got my money's worth out of it..
You bought something that wasn't useful to you.
You are saying I didn't find Win10/11 useful. That is coming out of >>>>>> your ass.
The fact that you're no longer using something you (over) paid for
kind
of proves it wasn't useful to you.
So the 2 1/2 years between installing Win10 initially, and deleting
Win11, don't mean anything? Are you stupid?
Because you've declared it wasn't good enough by the fact that you
subsequently installed Linux.
What the fuck are you talking about? I installed Linux *at the time*
that the time had come. I got my 2 1/2 years with Winblows.
So you're both claiming it was a good purchase (implicitly)...
...AND calling it "Winblows".
Interesting.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No, they don't.The fact that you're no longer using something you (over) paid for >>>>>> kind
of proves it wasn't useful to you.
So the 2 1/2 years between installing Win10 initially, and deleting
Win11, don't mean anything? Are you stupid?
Because you've declared it wasn't good enough by the fact that you
subsequently installed Linux.
What the fuck are you talking about? I installed Linux *at the time*
that the time had come. I got my 2 1/2 years with Winblows.
So you're both claiming it was a good purchase (implicitly)...
...AND calling it "Winblows".
Interesting.
Yeah, it ran fantastically for a couple years, then I moved on.
This
is probably common, among savvy computer users
who know that
Microsoft supports new hardware, but even the slightest aging makes
Linux the better choice.
And lo and behold, that's what I did.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I installed Linux *at the time*
that the time had come. I got my 2 1/2 years with Winblows.
So you're both claiming it was a good purchase (implicitly)...
...AND calling it "Winblows".
Interesting.
Yeah, it ran fantastically for a couple years, then I moved on.
That doesn't jibe with calling it "Winblows".
I mean... ...it didn't change, right?
It *did* change, genius, what do you think those "cumulative updates"
are doing?
ThisAs one who supports users of Windows (10, 11, and to a much lesser
is probably common, among savvy computer users, who know that
Microsoft supports new hardware, but even the slightest aging makes
Linux the better choice. And lo and behold, that's what I did.
extent, earlier versions), I can tell you that the problem is NOT aging >>hardware.
But you in your technical incompetence wouldn't have figured that out.
Maybe you're tolerant of hard drives and slow SSDs booting modern
Winblows,
I don't know, that's your headache.
I'm going to keep being
a pioneer of great computing,
proudly showing how Linux makes a
machine worth something.
On 2024-12-07 17:14, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No, they don't.The fact that you're no longer using something you (over) paid for >>>>>>> kind
of proves it wasn't useful to you.
So the 2 1/2 years between installing Win10 initially, and deleting >>>>>> Win11, don't mean anything? Are you stupid?
Because you've declared it wasn't good enough by the fact that you
subsequently installed Linux.
What the fuck are you talking about? I installed Linux *at the time*
that the time had come. I got my 2 1/2 years with Winblows.
So you're both claiming it was a good purchase (implicitly)...
...AND calling it "Winblows".
Interesting.
Yeah, it ran fantastically for a couple years, then I moved on.
That doesn't jibe with calling it "Winblows".
I mean... ...it didn't change, right?
This
is probably common, among savvy computer users, who know that
Microsoft supports new hardware, but even the slightest aging makes
Linux the better choice. And lo and behold, that's what I did.
As one who supports users of Windows (10, 11, and to a much lesser extent, earlier versions), I can tell you that the problem is NOT aging hardware.
But you in your technical incompetence wouldn't have figured that out.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I installed Linux *at the time*
that the time had come. I got my 2 1/2 years with Winblows.
So you're both claiming it was a good purchase (implicitly)...
...AND calling it "Winblows".
Interesting.
Yeah, it ran fantastically for a couple years, then I moved on.
That doesn't jibe with calling it "Winblows".
I mean... ...it didn't change, right?
It *did* change, genius, what do you think those "cumulative updates"
are doing?
Really?
Is that what you're blaming this time?
It's what I "blamed" from the beginning, dumbass, you don't listen,
you talk with vain authority.
On 2024-12-07 17:43, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I installed Linux *at the time*
that the time had come. I got my 2 1/2 years with Winblows.
So you're both claiming it was a good purchase (implicitly)...
...AND calling it "Winblows".
Interesting.
Yeah, it ran fantastically for a couple years, then I moved on.
That doesn't jibe with calling it "Winblows".
I mean... ...it didn't change, right?
It *did* change, genius, what do you think those "cumulative updates"
are doing?
Really?
Is that what you're blaming this time?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
what [is] the difference in cost is between your Linux
system and an equivalent Mac[?].
Funny that, huh?
It's definitely cheaper [to use self-assembled computers].
So show us all!
Show us how much smarter you are!
Show us how you "won"!
Cut the $200 I didn't need to pay M$, and I paid a pittance for what I
have now.
Joel wrote:
That is coming out of your ass.
You prefer to have someone coming *in* your ass.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-09 07:36, Scout wrote:
Besides if he really wanted to put down Windows then the Mac O/S would
be the clear challenger.. and we see what he's said about it.
Indeed.
And what he's said is mere puffery.
You guys are serious, aren't you?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-09 09:55, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-09 07:36, Scout wrote:
Besides if he really wanted to put down Windows then the Mac O/S would >>>>> be the clear challenger.. and we see what he's said about it.
Indeed.
And what he's said is mere puffery.
You guys are serious, aren't you?
About you being unable to produce a single concrete example of the
supposed problems with Apple's products?
Yup.
The bottom line is, Alan is Apple incognito.
That is "his" only
interest, here. I am speaking real truth, investing in hardware that
is sensible means running Linux.
On 2024-12-09 10:13, Joel wrote:
A...
That is "his" only
interest, here. I am speaking real truth, investing in hardware that
is sensible means running Linux.
But you have the whole situation completely backwards.
The FIRST thing you want to do when deciding what personal computer you
want to use is look at what you will be DOING with it; both immediately
and in the future.
Next, you need to determine what SOFTWARE you'd like to use.
Then, and only then do you look to what operating system makes the most
sense for you.
And then you buy hardware that works with those choices.
"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message news:vj23ia$2mk4f$1@dont-email.me...
On 12/6/24 7:28 PM, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Joel actually spent [allegedly too much], by accepting SSD
performance that's only
equal to his current, instead of 2x as fast by using a external, and
skip the RAM upgrade as a BS claim:
Base Mini with SSD bumped to 512 +1TB external SSD: $800 +$100 = $900. >>>>
Outcome: significantly superior performing hardware, and with 1.5TB
total storage instead of just 1TB...for 22% less money.
And one _still_ has the option of running Linux on it, plus there's
zero
financial cost to go back to MacOS if you decide that was a mistake.
My parts stand at under $1000.
Yes, your hardware's at ~$950, because you've been desperately trying
to ignore the $200 that you also spent on a Windows license as a mistake.
Unfortunately, "do-overs" from mistakes is part of the risk of
DIY'ing. Just ask that guy who bought a 4100 graphics card after his
integrated GPU was supposedly inadequate for supporting even but one
4K display.
Then let's not forget his 'need' to buy a 4k monitor when his first
monitor proved inadequate to his 'needs' Then as you point out a need
for an additional graphics card because he either didn't check for compatibility or was unable to configure for compatibility.
On 12/9/24 1:24 PM, Alan wrote:Hey...
On 2024-12-09 10:13, Joel wrote:
A...
That is "his" only
interest, here. I am speaking real truth, investing in hardware that
is sensible means running Linux.
But you have the whole situation completely backwards.
The FIRST thing you want to do when deciding what personal computer
you want to use is look at what you will be DOING with it; both
immediately and in the future.
Next, you need to determine what SOFTWARE you'd like to use.
Then, and only then do you look to what operating system makes the
most sense for you.
And then you buy hardware that works with those choices.
I swear, some of these fanboys must think that the only thing that one's supposed to do with a PC is to stare at flying toasters.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Because it makes sense.The FIRST thing you want to do when deciding what personal computer you >>>> want to use is look at what you will be DOING with it; both immediately >>>> and in the future.
Next, you need to determine what SOFTWARE you'd like to use.
Then, and only then do you look to what operating system makes the most >>>> sense for you.
And then you buy hardware that works with those choices.
If I were Apple wanting to prompt people to buy my shit, I'd talk
exactly like you on misc.phone.mobile.iphone in 2024.
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components for
"bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to have a
little of them?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-09 10:13, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-09 09:55, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-09 07:36, Scout wrote:
Besides if he really wanted to put down Windows then the Mac O/S would >>>>>>> be the clear challenger.. and we see what he's said about it.
Indeed.
And what he's said is mere puffery.
You guys are serious, aren't you?
About you being unable to produce a single concrete example of the
supposed problems with Apple's products?
Yup.
The bottom line is, Alan is Apple incognito.
You keep throwing out phrases as if they mean something.
What is "Apple incognito" supposed to mean?
You're an operative, clearly.
That is "his" only
interest, here. I am speaking real truth, investing in hardware that
is sensible means running Linux.
But you have the whole situation completely backwards.
The FIRST thing you want to do when deciding what personal computer you
want to use is look at what you will be DOING with it; both immediately
and in the future.
Next, you need to determine what SOFTWARE you'd like to use.
Then, and only then do you look to what operating system makes the most
sense for you.
And then you buy hardware that works with those choices.
If I were Apple wanting to prompt people to buy my shit, I'd talkBecause it makes sense.
exactly like you on misc.phone.mobile.iphone in 2024.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-09 07:36, Scout wrote:
Besides if he really wanted to put down Windows then the Mac O/S would
be the clear challenger.. and we see what he's said about it.
Indeed.
And what he's said is mere puffery.
You guys are serious, aren't you?
On 2024-12-09 10:13, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-09 09:55, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-09 07:36, Scout wrote:
Besides if he really wanted to put down Windows then the Mac O/S
would
be the clear challenger.. and we see what he's said about it.
Indeed.
And what he's said is mere puffery.
You guys are serious, aren't you?
About you being unable to produce a single concrete example of the
supposed problems with Apple's products?
Yup.
The bottom line is, Alan is Apple incognito.
You keep throwing out phrases as if they mean something.
What is "Apple incognito" supposed to mean?
That is "his" only
interest, here. I am speaking real truth, investing in hardware that
is sensible means running Linux.
But you have the whole situation completely backwards.
The FIRST thing you want to do when deciding what personal computer you
want to use is look at what you will be DOING with it; both immediately
and in the future.
Next, you need to determine what SOFTWARE you'd like to use.
Then, and only then do you look to what operating system makes the most
sense for you.
And then you buy hardware that works with those choices.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Because it makes sense.The FIRST thing you want to do when deciding what personal computer you >>>> want to use is look at what you will be DOING with it; both immediately >>>> and in the future.
Next, you need to determine what SOFTWARE you'd like to use.
Then, and only then do you look to what operating system makes the most >>>> sense for you.
And then you buy hardware that works with those choices.
If I were Apple wanting to prompt people to buy my shit, I'd talk
exactly like you on misc.phone.mobile.iphone in 2024.
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components for >>"bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to have a
little of them?
On 2024-12-09 11:29, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Because it makes sense.The FIRST thing you want to do when deciding what personal computer
you
want to use is look at what you will be DOING with it; both
immediately
and in the future.
Next, you need to determine what SOFTWARE you'd like to use.
Then, and only then do you look to what operating system makes the
most
sense for you.
And then you buy hardware that works with those choices.
If I were Apple wanting to prompt people to buy my shit, I'd talk
exactly like you on misc.phone.mobile.iphone in 2024.
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components for
"bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to have a
little of them?
I'm sorry, but that is PRECISELY what you claimed.
And no: I don't give a damn about bragging rights.
My computer is a TOOL I use.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-09 09:55, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-09 07:36, Scout wrote:
Besides if he really wanted to put down Windows then the Mac O/S would >>>>> be the clear challenger.. and we see what he's said about it.
Indeed.
And what he's said is mere puffery.
You guys are serious, aren't you?
About you being unable to produce a single concrete example of the
supposed problems with Apple's products?
Yup.
The bottom line is, Alan is Apple incognito.
That is "his" only
interest, here. I am speaking real truth, investing in hardware that
is sensible means running Linux.
On 12/9/24 10:27 AM, Scout wrote:
"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
news:vj23ia$2mk4f$1@dont-email.me...
On 12/6/24 7:28 PM, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Joel actually spent [allegedly too much], by accepting SSD performance >>>>> that's only
equal to his current, instead of 2x as fast by using a external, and >>>>> skip the RAM upgrade as a BS claim:
Base Mini with SSD bumped to 512 +1TB external SSD: $800 +$100 = $900. >>>>>
Outcome: significantly superior performing hardware, and with 1.5TB >>>>> total storage instead of just 1TB...for 22% less money.
And one _still_ has the option of running Linux on it, plus there's
zero
financial cost to go back to MacOS if you decide that was a mistake.
My parts stand at under $1000.
Yes, your hardware's at ~$950, because you've been desperately trying to >>> ignore the $200 that you also spent on a Windows license as a mistake.
Unfortunately, "do-overs" from mistakes is part of the risk of DIY'ing.
Just ask that guy who bought a 4100 graphics card after his integrated
GPU was supposedly inadequate for supporting even but one 4K display.
Then let's not forget his 'need' to buy a 4k monitor when his first
monitor proved inadequate to his 'needs' Then as you point out a need for
an additional graphics card because he either didn't check for
compatibility or was unable to configure for compatibility.
To be fair, I think that Joel had said something to the effect that he was using some ancient monitor until it died.
Granted, I've also been guilty of running displays for 'too long', but
that doesn't mean that I planned my desktop hardware so poorly that I suddenly also needed a new GPU for the replacement display.
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Because it makes sense.The FIRST thing you want to do when deciding what personal
computer you want to use is look at what you will be DOING with
it; both immediately and in the future.
Next, you need to determine what SOFTWARE you'd like to use.
Then, and only then do you look to what operating system makes the
most sense for you.
And then you buy hardware that works with those choices.
If I were Apple wanting to prompt people to buy my shit, I'd talk
exactly like you on misc.phone.mobile.iphone in 2024.
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components for >>>"bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to have
a little of them?
And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging
rights, but failing miserably.
On 2024-12-09 11:29, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Because it makes sense.The FIRST thing you want to do when deciding what personal
computer you want to use is look at what you will be DOING with
it; both immediately and in the future.
Next, you need to determine what SOFTWARE you'd like to use.
Then, and only then do you look to what operating system makes the
most sense for you.
And then you buy hardware that works with those choices.
If I were Apple wanting to prompt people to buy my shit, I'd talk
exactly like you on misc.phone.mobile.iphone in 2024.
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components for
"bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to have
a little of them?
I'm sorry, but that is PRECISELY what you claimed.
And no: I don't give a damn about bragging rights.
My computer is a TOOL I use.
On 09 Dec 2024, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> posted some news:vj7gm8$hs5k$4@dont-email.me:
On 2024-12-09 11:29, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Because it makes sense.The FIRST thing you want to do when deciding what personal
computer you want to use is look at what you will be DOING with
it; both immediately and in the future.
Next, you need to determine what SOFTWARE you'd like to use.
Then, and only then do you look to what operating system makes the >>>>>> most sense for you.
And then you buy hardware that works with those choices.
If I were Apple wanting to prompt people to buy my shit, I'd talk
exactly like you on misc.phone.mobile.iphone in 2024.
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components for
"bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to have
a little of them?
I'm sorry, but that is PRECISELY what you claimed.
And no: I don't give a damn about bragging rights.
My computer is a TOOL I use.
You have a TOOL Joel would use.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components for >>>>>> "bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to have >>>>> a little of them?
And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging
rights, but failing miserably.
He's not running any iTrash junk. That's good enough for 51%.
Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write...
...no wait.
It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
having a fuckin' Mac.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-14 13:21, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
He's not running any iTrash junk. That's good enough for 51%.
Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write...
...no wait.
It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
having a fuckin' Mac.
I don't brag about having a personal computer, because it's an
APPLIANCE; something I use to accomplish tasks.
But it isn't just an appliance, that's how Apple has spoon-fed you apparently, I assembled my computer's hardware, I installed the OSes,I'm sorry, but it IS just an appliance.
Apple is just a quirky OEM.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm sorry, but it IS just an appliance.It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
having a fuckin' Mac.
I don't brag about having a personal computer, because it's an
APPLIANCE; something I use to accomplish tasks.
But it isn't just an appliance, that's how Apple has spoon-fed you
apparently, I assembled my computer's hardware, I installed the OSes,
Apple is just a quirky OEM.
Assembling hardware and installing OSes...
...that's the anomaly, not the norm.
Spoken like a bona fide Apple sheep. :)
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm sorry, but it IS just an appliance.It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about >>>>>>> having a fuckin' Mac.
I don't brag about having a personal computer, because it's an
APPLIANCE; something I use to accomplish tasks.
But it isn't just an appliance, that's how Apple has spoon-fed you
apparently, I assembled my computer's hardware, I installed the OSes, >>>>> Apple is just a quirky OEM.
Assembling hardware and installing OSes...
...that's the anomaly, not the norm.
Spoken like a bona fide Apple sheep. :)
Nope.
Spoken like someone who knows the statistics.
Most people...
...the VAST majority...
...buy a COMPUTER...
...not a collection of parts they can make into a computer.
People who want real value will do what I did.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components for >>>>>> "bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to have >>>>> a little of them?
And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging
rights, but failing miserably.
He's not running any iTrash junk. That's good enough for 51%.
Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write...
...no wait.
It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
having a fuckin' Mac.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Assembling hardware and installing OSes...
...that's the anomaly, not the norm.
Spoken like a bona fide Apple sheep. :)
Nope.
Spoken like someone who knows the statistics.
Most people...
...the VAST majority...
...buy a COMPUTER...
...not a collection of parts they can make into a computer.
People who want real value will do what I did.
I'm sorry (and I know this will come as a shock to you), but:
People who value things differently than you do are not automatically
stupid.
I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent
thinking, but it's still true.
It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math. And I'm not calling
you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than
Apple, on value, if you build yourself.
On 2024-12-15 02:56, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Assembling hardware and installing OSes...
...that's the anomaly, not the norm.
Spoken like a bona fide Apple sheep. :)
Nope.
Spoken like someone who knows the statistics.
Most people...
...the VAST majority...
...buy a COMPUTER...
...not a collection of parts they can make into a computer.
People who want real value will do what I did.
I'm sorry (and I know this will come as a shock to you), but:
People who value things differently than you do are not automatically
stupid.
I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent
thinking, but it's still true.
It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math. And I'm not calling
you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than
Apple, on value, if you build yourself.
And if you don't value you your own time.
Yu're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
On 12/14/24 4:21 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components
for "bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to
have a little of them?
And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging
rights, but failing miserably.
He's not running any iTrash junk. That's good enough for 51%.
Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write...
...no wait.
It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
having a fuckin' Mac.
They're just tools with which to accomplish one's workflow needs...
...but thus said, perhaps you don't recall how a decade ago, when
there was some geekery on COLA, the winner on a personal "Biggest
Iron" thread just happened to be a poster with a Mac. Oopsie for the
l33t g33ks.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/15/24 12:24 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-15 02:56, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
People who value things differently than you do are not automatically >>>>> stupid.
I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent
thinking, but it's still true.
It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math. And I'm not calling
you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than
Apple, on value, if you build [a computer] yourself.
And if you don't value you your own time.
Yu're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
Ah, its the lame old classic bit of "my labor is always frrrrreee!".
Well, as I've said before: prove that your labor is worth so little to
you by coming over and mowing my lawn.
Of course, at this time of year, their task will be raking up leaves ..
or if it snows later, to get out there in the cold and shovel: I'm
flexible for what menial labor task they'll prove themselves with <g>.
Labor and the time it takes is just part of getting a good PC, you
have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not
worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
machine.
But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone
to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time? It's
not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use out
of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth
every minute I put in, assembling it.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Assembling hardware and installing OSes...
...that's the anomaly, not the norm.
Spoken like a bona fide Apple sheep. :)
Nope.
Spoken like someone who knows the statistics.
Most people...
...the VAST majority...
...buy a COMPUTER...
...not a collection of parts they can make into a computer.
People who want real value will do what I did.
I'm sorry (and I know this will come as a shock to you), but:
People who value things differently than you do are not automatically >>stupid.
I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent >>thinking, but it's still true.
It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math. And I'm not calling
you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than
Apple, on value, if you build yourself.
On 14 Dec 2024, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> posted some news:vjl3ti$6u4s$1@dont-email.me:
On 12/14/24 4:21 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components >>>>>>>> for "bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to
have a little of them?
And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging >>>>>> rights, but failing miserably.
He's not running any iTrash junk. That's good enough for 51%.
Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write...
...no wait.
It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
having a fuckin' Mac.
They're just tools with which to accomplish one's workflow needs...
...but thus said, perhaps you don't recall how a decade ago, when
there was some geekery on COLA, the winner on a personal "Biggest
Iron" thread just happened to be a poster with a Mac. Oopsie for the
l33t g33ks.
modern macs are made for playing on social media and goofy photo
filtering. if one wants to accomplish anything meaningful they must use a windoze or linux platform.
On 2024-12-15 14:06, hank wrote:
On 14 Dec 2024, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> posted some
news:vjl3ti$6u4s$1@dont-email.me:
On 12/14/24 4:21 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> >>>>>> posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components >>>>>>>>> for "bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to >>>>>>>> have a little of them?
And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging >>>>>>> rights, but failing miserably.
He's not running any iTrash junk. That's good enough for 51%.
Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write...
...no wait.
It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
having a fuckin' Mac.
They're just tools with which to accomplish one's workflow needs...
...but thus said, perhaps you don't recall how a decade ago, when
there was some geekery on COLA, the winner on a personal "Biggest
Iron" thread just happened to be a poster with a Mac. Oopsie for the
l33t g33ks.
modern macs are made for playing on social media and goofy photo
filtering. if one wants to accomplish anything meaningful they must
use a
windoze or linux platform.
What "meaningful" things can you not accomplish on a Mac?
On 14 Dec 2024, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> posted some news:vjl3ti$6u4s$1@dont-email.me:
On 12/14/24 4:21 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components >>>>>>>> for "bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to
have a little of them?
And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging >>>>>> rights, but failing miserably.
He's not running any iTrash junk. That's good enough for 51%.
Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write...
...no wait.
It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
having a fuckin' Mac.
They're just tools with which to accomplish one's workflow needs...
...but thus said, perhaps you don't recall how a decade ago, when
there was some geekery on COLA, the winner on a personal "Biggest
Iron" thread just happened to be a poster with a Mac. Oopsie for the
l33t g33ks.
modern macs are made for playing on social media and goofy photo
filtering. if one wants to accomplish anything meaningful they must use a windoze or linux platform.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/15/24 3:48 PM, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/15/24 12:24 PM, Alan wrote:
Yu're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
Ah, its the lame old classic bit of "my labor is always frrrrreee!".
Well, as I've said before: prove that your labor is worth so little to >>>> you by coming over and mowing my lawn.
Of course, at this time of year, their task will be raking up leaves .. >>>> or if it snows later, to get out there in the cold and shovel: I'm
flexible for what menial labor task they'll prove themselves with <g>.
Labor and the time it takes is just part of getting a good PC, you
have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not
worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
machine.
When one buys a prebuilt, those design decision costs are amortized
across many thousands of units instead of just your one white box.
As I said weeks ago, a colleague used to run his own small business
assembling white boxes - - he shut it down years ago because the OEMs
became price-competitive and there was no margin left for him, even as
he was typically building a dozen identical units at a shot.
Newegg has prefab systems that aren't the name brand, that's what I'd
go for if I wanted an OEM, but you can bet anything it won't have a motherboard like the one I bought as a part.
Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of
your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So
just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?
The Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of"
my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone
to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time? It's
not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use out
of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth
every minute I put in, assembling it.
No, its quite different, because you're not assembling from a set of
instructions & a single box of parts that Ikea designed: you went to
NewEgg/etc and semi-randomly chose stuff that you then *hoped* would all
fit together and work: you took on that entire risk onto yourself, and
in context, saved essentially zero dollars.
If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be
nearly as good. That's undeniable.
On 12/15/2024 3:41 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-15 14:06, hank wrote:
On 14 Dec 2024, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> posted some
news:vjl3ti$6u4s$1@dont-email.me:
On 12/14/24 4:21 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> >>>>>>> posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components >>>>>>>>>> for "bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to >>>>>>>>> have a little of them?
And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging >>>>>>>> rights, but failing miserably.
He's not running any iTrash junk. That's good enough for 51%.
Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write... >>>>>>
...no wait.
It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
having a fuckin' Mac.
They're just tools with which to accomplish one's workflow needs...
...but thus said, perhaps you don't recall how a decade ago, when
there was some geekery on COLA, the winner on a personal "Biggest
Iron" thread just happened to be a poster with a Mac. Oopsie for the >>>> l33t g33ks.
modern macs are made for playing on social media and goofy photo
filtering. if one wants to accomplish anything meaningful they must
use a
windoze or linux platform.
What "meaningful" things can you not accomplish on a Mac?
Asking that, it's obvious you've never worked in an advanced IT support
role.
On 12/15/2024 3:41 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-15 14:06, hank wrote:
On 14 Dec 2024, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> posted some
news:vjl3ti$6u4s$1@dont-email.me:
On 12/14/24 4:21 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-14 12:14, Wayne Kerr wrote:
On 10 Dec 2024, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> >>>>>>> posted some news:vj9n0t$112k0$9@dont-email.me:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j5heljd33mbd7mm78165chhdlpoliclse1@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You, OTOH, seem to think you buy a computer and its components >>>>>>>>>> for "bragging rights".
It's not really "for" bragging rights, but wouldn't you want to >>>>>>>>> have a little of them?
And you certainly are really trying for a little of those bragging >>>>>>>> rights, but failing miserably.
He's not running any iTrash junk. That's good enough for 51%.
Wow. That looks exactly like what a reasonable adult would write... >>>>>>
...no wait.
It's a troll, to be sure, but he has a point, I wouldn't brag about
having a fuckin' Mac.
They're just tools with which to accomplish one's workflow needs...
...but thus said, perhaps you don't recall how a decade ago, when
there was some geekery on COLA, the winner on a personal "Biggest
Iron" thread just happened to be a poster with a Mac. Oopsie for the >>>> l33t g33ks.
modern macs are made for playing on social media and goofy photo
filtering. if one wants to accomplish anything meaningful they must
use a
windoze or linux platform.
What "meaningful" things can you not accomplish on a Mac?
Asking that, it's obvious you've never worked in an advanced IT support
role.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of
your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So >>>> just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?
The Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of"
my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
*stomp Apologies for a typo.
We've already seen the CPU benchmarks and disk I/O. If not "stomp",
then how do you want to describe being higher at a lower price?
Especially since there's no OS monopoly anymore either:
<https://asahilinux.org/about/>
A Mac mini purchased when I built my machine wouldn't be any faster
than what I have.
If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be
nearly as good. That's undeniable.
Except of course for how its already been shown that you could have
bought your so-called "overpriced" Apple gear for less & gotten more...
...and your retort is that the OEM OS is "goofy", even though Linux is
an alternative.
I see Linux as the default OS, actually, it's M$ and Apple that are proprietary, commercial platforms, consumerism, not real computing enthusiasm.
On 15 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some news:eadtljhrqtip9087qbsf13d6cc1djnrld2@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Assembling hardware and installing OSes...
...that's the anomaly, not the norm.
Spoken like a bona fide Apple sheep. :)
Nope.
Spoken like someone who knows the statistics.
Most people...
...the VAST majority...
...buy a COMPUTER...
...not a collection of parts they can make into a computer.
People who want real value will do what I did.
I'm sorry (and I know this will come as a shock to you), but:
People who value things differently than you do are not automatically
stupid.
I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent
thinking, but it's still true.
It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math. And I'm not calling
you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than
Apple, on value, if you build yourself.
that's true. there are also fewer compatibility limits and issues.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of >>>>>> your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So >>>>>> just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?
The Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of" >>>>> my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
*stomp Apologies for a typo.
We've already seen the CPU benchmarks and disk I/O. If not "stomp",
then how do you want to describe being higher at a lower price?
Especially since there's no OS monopoly anymore either:
<https://asahilinux.org/about/>
A Mac mini purchased when I built my machine wouldn't be any faster
than what I have.
The 2020 mini model would have been cheaper.
The current mini model is faster & cheaper.
A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.
If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be >>>>> nearly as good. That's undeniable.
Except of course for how its already been shown that you could have
bought your so-called "overpriced" Apple gear for less & gotten more... >>>>
...and your retort is that the OEM OS is "goofy", even though Linux is >>>> an alternative.
I see Linux as the default OS, actually, it's M$ and Apple that are
proprietary, commercial platforms, consumerism, not real computing
enthusiasm.
Yet that didn't stop you from buying & running on Windows OS for the
first ~2/3rds of the life of your current PC.
I needed Win10/11 at first, and enjoyed using them, but I moved on. It
was worth it. I got my use out of it, but it outgrew my hardware, as
M$ crapware tends to do, so I got out, I installed Linux. All is
well.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.
That you have ... or that you need?
Case in point, you were asked awhile back about how much disk space your
PC took up when you first bought it, and how much it is taking up today.
Needless to say, you avoided ever providing an answer, but we do know
indirectly that your storage growth needs are less than 300GB/year.
I'll never use up the 1 TB, that's kind of the point. The drive could
last many years. You want to have extra storage.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of >>>>>> your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So >>>>>> just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?
The Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of" >>>>> my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
*stomp Apologies for a typo.
We've already seen the CPU benchmarks and disk I/O. If not "stomp",
then how do you want to describe being higher at a lower price?
Especially since there's no OS monopoly anymore either:
<https://asahilinux.org/about/>
A Mac mini purchased when I built my machine wouldn't be any faster
than what I have.
The 2020 mini model would have been cheaper.
The current mini model is faster & cheaper.
A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.
If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be >>>>> nearly as good. That's undeniable.
Except of course for how its already been shown that you could have
bought your so-called "overpriced" Apple gear for less & gotten more... >>>>
...and your retort is that the OEM OS is "goofy", even though Linux is >>>> an alternative.
I see Linux as the default OS, actually, it's M$ and Apple that are
proprietary, commercial platforms, consumerism, not real computing
enthusiasm.
Yet that didn't stop you from buying & running on Windows OS for the
first ~2/3rds of the life of your current PC.
I needed Win10/11 at first, and enjoyed using them, but I moved on. ItNo... ...Windows did NOT outgrow your hardware in 2-3 years...
was worth it. I got my use out of it, but it outgrew my hardware, as
M$ crapware tends to do, so I got out, I installed Linux. All is
well.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'll never use up the 1 TB [NVMe SSD], that's kind of the point. The drive could
last many years. You want to have extra storage.
And if you have a desktop, then that storage can just as easily and
effectively be an external drive.>
But then you have this dangling external device. I like to have it"dangling"?
inside the case.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Most people...
...the VAST majority...
...buy a COMPUTER...
...not a collection of parts they can make into a computer.
People who want real value will do what I did.
I'm sorry (and I know this will come as a shock to you), but:
People who value things differently than you do are not automatically
stupid.
I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent
thinking, but it's still true.
It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math. And I'm not calling
you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than
Apple, on value, if you build yourself.
And if you don't value you your own time.
How much do you value time, that you'd pay Apple's rates?
You're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
Not really, because it applies to prefab Winblows systems, too, they
cheap out on certain parts to keep the prices competitive, that's why building my own was such a great investment, including of time itself.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/15/24 12:24 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-15 02:56, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
People who value things differently than you do are not automatically >>>>> stupid.
I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent
thinking, but it's still true.
It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math. And I'm not calling
you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than
Apple, on value, if you build [a computer] yourself.
And if you don't value you your own time.
Yu're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
Ah, its the lame old classic bit of "my labor is always frrrrreee!".
Well, as I've said before: prove that your labor is worth so little to
you by coming over and mowing my lawn.
Of course, at this time of year, their task will be raking up leaves ..
or if it snows later, to get out there in the cold and shovel: I'm
flexible for what menial labor task they'll prove themselves with <g>.
Labor and the time it takes is just part of getting a good PC, you
have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not
worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
machine. But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone
to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time? It's
not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use out
of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth
every minute I put in, assembling it.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/15/24 3:48 PM, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/15/24 12:24 PM, Alan wrote:
Yu're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
Ah, its the lame old classic bit of "my labor is always frrrrreee!".
Well, as I've said before: prove that your labor is worth so little to >>>> you by coming over and mowing my lawn.
Of course, at this time of year, their task will be raking up leaves .. >>>> or if it snows later, to get out there in the cold and shovel: I'm
flexible for what menial labor task they'll prove themselves with <g>.
Labor and the time it takes is just part of getting a good PC, you
have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not
worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
machine.
When one buys a prebuilt, those design decision costs are amortized
across many thousands of units instead of just your one white box.
As I said weeks ago, a colleague used to run his own small business
assembling white boxes - - he shut it down years ago because the OEMs
became price-competitive and there was no margin left for him, even as
he was typically building a dozen identical units at a shot.
Newegg has prefab systems that aren't the name brand, that's what I'd
go for if I wanted an OEM, but you can bet anything it won't have a motherboard like the one I bought as a part.
Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of
your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So
just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?
The Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of"
my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone
to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time? It's
not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use out
of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth
every minute I put in, assembling it.
No, its quite different, because you're not assembling from a set of
instructions & a single box of parts that Ikea designed: you went to
NewEgg/etc and semi-randomly chose stuff that you then *hoped* would all
fit together and work: you took on that entire risk onto yourself, and
in context, saved essentially zero dollars.
If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be
nearly as good. That's undeniable.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.
Dude... ...you bought an i5 and it turned out to be the wrong one to
have bought when you discovered you couldn't make it work with a 4K monitor.
How is that even remotely true? I didn't know I'd buy the 4K monitor,
it was a whimsical purchase when I saw the hot price. The Intel video
did support it theoretically, it just didn't work as well as the
NVIDIA card. Big fucking deal! I still got use out of the Intel
video while I was using the old monitor, and could put off buying a
video card.
And if we benchmarked your i5 against a 2020 Mini... ...how would it fare?
Just fine, I'm sure. Maybe Apple's CPU is slightly faster, but would
I notice the difference?
I needed Win10/11 at first, and enjoyed using them, but I moved on. ItNo... ...Windows did NOT outgrow your hardware in 2-3 years...
was worth it. I got my use out of it, but it outgrew my hardware, as
M$ crapware tends to do, so I got out, I installed Linux. All is
well.
...unless you bought the wrong hardware to begin with.
You really underestimate what M$ does. They have proven that they
support brand-new, high-end devices, in any real sense, that you can
boot their crapware on a smaller system doesn't mean it will perform adequately, this is why Linux isn't just some oddball alternative,
it's the real deal.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
"dangling"?I'll never use up the 1 TB [NVMe SSD], that's kind of the point. The drive could
last many years. You want to have extra storage.
And if you have a desktop, then that storage can just as easily and
effectively be an external drive.>
But then you have this dangling external device. I like to have it
inside the case.
That's a very odd way to phrase it.
Having it inside the case is important if you have a laptop, but given
the size of external drives these days, almost completely irrelevant if
you have a desktop computer.
Does it bother you that your monitor is "dangling"?
Or your keyboard?
:-)
They aren't dangling, they're supposed to be where they are, anWhy is that different?
external storage drive that just sits there plugged in, in constant
use, is dangling.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm not calling
you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than >>>>> Apple, on value, if you build yourself.
And if you don't value you your own time.
How much do you value time, that you'd pay Apple's rates?
Hmmmm....
My MacBook Air M3 cost me about $2,000CAD. So let's assume that I could
buy a Windows/Linux laptop for half as much
Since I'm fairly certain (based on prior experience) that this machine
will serve me for at least 5 years, my purchase only needs to save me a
couple of hours a year for it to have been a solid decision on dollars
alone.
I value my time highly.
Well, since you're a laptop user, I actually more understand going
with a MacBook model, that's where Apple's hardware is actually in
some ways better than a lot of the competition. In recent times,
we've begun to see ARM-based laptops with Win11, that can be replaced
with Linux, which is awesome, but if you prefer macOS, there's nothing
so wrong about buying a MacBook, it's expensive, but it's your money.
You're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
Not really, because it applies to prefab Winblows systems, too, they
cheap out on certain parts to keep the prices competitive, that's why
building my own was such a great investment, including of time itself.
How does that even address my point?
Because value is a quotient of money spent for material gained - myIn what MATERIAL way?
Gigabyte motherboard makes my system higher end than virtually any
prefab PC system. Apple, though, is probably equally good, just more
costly.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Labor and the time it takes [assembling computer hardware] is just part of getting a good PC, you
have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not
worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
machine. But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone
to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time? It's
not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use out
of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth
every minute I put in, assembling it.
But you don't pay "a fortune", Joel.
You pay a small premium.
And your computer is "like new"...
...after you've added a video card to address a failing in your research
when designing your system...
...and replacing the OS with Linux because your system was so poorly
spec'ed it couldn't keep running Windows well.
That's ridiculous. It's normal to add parts as needed, and replace
bloating M$-crapware OSes with Linux. Why are you harping on it?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-15 14:01, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Newegg has prefab systems that aren't the name brand, that's what I'd
go for if I wanted an OEM, but you can bet anything it won't have a
motherboard like the one I bought as a part.
How is yours materially better...
...I mean apart from "bragging rights"?
It's limitlessly expandable. That's what the bragging rights derive
from.
Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out of
your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. So >>>> just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay?
The Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of"
my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
About which you've never been able to articulate what is "goofy" about it.
I don't like it. It's like a nasty food. And Win11 is like a serving
of food that's too large, but you are nevertheless expected to eat the
whole thing.
If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be
nearly as good. That's undeniable.
Did you buy a personal computer to get things done...
...or to brag about how "l337" you are?
Both.And that says EVERYTHING about you.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Why is that different?"dangling"?I'll never use up the 1 TB [NVMe SSD], that's kind of the point. The drive could
last many years. You want to have extra storage.
And if you have a desktop, then that storage can just as easily and >>>>>> effectively be an external drive.>
But then you have this dangling external device. I like to have it
inside the case.
That's a very odd way to phrase it.
Having it inside the case is important if you have a laptop, but given >>>> the size of external drives these days, almost completely irrelevant if >>>> you have a desktop computer.
Does it bother you that your monitor is "dangling"?
Or your keyboard?
:-)
They aren't dangling, they're supposed to be where they are, an
external storage drive that just sits there plugged in, in constant
use, is dangling.
You're USED TO an external monitor and keyboard, but an external drive
is no different.
How in God's name would a monitor or keyboard not be external?
hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001547&hvtargid=pla-2190493457657&psc=1&mcid=5f9e3a8965ea37bc89aca8270bb63779&gad_source=1>On some computers (which would have cost you less) you can buy drives
that perfectly sit under the desktop:
<https://www.amazon.ca/Enclosure-Docking-Station-Readers-Compatible/dp/B0C33HS3RP/ref=asc_df_B0C33HS3RP/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=708007226763&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13265770567124847550&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&
<https://ca.macsales.com/shop/external-drives/owc-ministack>
Super neato, but my motherboard can already handle another NVMe orWhich is better in what measurable way?
two.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In what MATERIAL way?How does that even address my point?You're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
Not really, because it applies to prefab Winblows systems, too, they >>>>> cheap out on certain parts to keep the prices competitive, that's why >>>>> building my own was such a great investment, including of time itself. >>>>
Because value is a quotient of money spent for material gained - my
Gigabyte motherboard makes my system higher end than virtually any
prefab PC system. Apple, though, is probably equally good, just more
costly.
What is a metric...
...that actually matters to your use case...
...that makes your "Gigabyte motherboard" "higher end" than a system you
could have just bought?
Remember, you're the one who always concedes that a small difference
actually doesn't matter to you.
But durability does matter - I had my previous computer, with anThe i5 processor isn't consistent with your claim of "fairly high-end".
Intel-brand motherboard, for 10 years. It was a fairly high-end
system initially, ran the earlier forms of Windows 10 very well, and
was still running Linux beautifully when replaced. I'd like to think
this machine could last as long, or even longer.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Newegg has prefab systems that aren't the name brand, that's what I'd >>>>> go for if I wanted an OEM, but you can bet anything it won't have a
motherboard like the one I bought as a part.
How is yours materially better...
...I mean apart from "bragging rights"?
It's limitlessly expandable. That's what the bragging rights derive
from.
My MacBook Air is "limitlessly expandable" to, Sunshine.
<https://www.sonnettech.com/product/thunderbolt/pcie-card-expansion-systems.html>
Sounds easy to travel with.
I don't like it. It's like a nasty food. And Win11 is like a serving[The Mac mini] runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
About which you've never been able to articulate what is "goofy" about it. >>>
of food that's too large, but you are nevertheless expected to eat the
whole thing.
"I don't like it" is not the same is "it's goofy", princess.
You cannot articulate a single actual thing that makes a Mac "goofy" or
"quirky".
Finder in Snow Leopard was a piece of junk.
And that says EVERYTHING about you.If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be >>>>> nearly as good. That's undeniable.
Did you buy a personal computer to get things done...
...or to brag about how "l337" you are?
Both.
Given your stated use cases, there is nothing that a Mac Mini couldn't
have done as well (or better) than what you spent more money (and time!)
to end up with.
But it'd run macOS, so ...Which does literally everything you say you do on Linux.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
So why spend $200 on Windows in the first place?I needed Win10/11 at first, and enjoyed using them, but I moved on. It >>>>>>> was worth it. I got my use out of it, but it outgrew my hardware, as >>>>>>> M$ crapware tends to do, so I got out, I installed Linux. All is >>>>>>> well.No... ...Windows did NOT outgrow your hardware in 2-3 years...
...unless you bought the wrong hardware to begin with.
You really underestimate what M$ does. They have proven that they
support brand-new, high-end devices, in any real sense, that you can >>>>> boot their crapware on a smaller system doesn't mean it will perform >>>>> adequately, this is why Linux isn't just some oddball alternative,
it's the real deal.
I do Windows support for a living (because my clients that have Macs
basically never need to see me), and I know what makes Windows slow down. >>>>
Hint: it's usually NOT the hardware.
I kept my system sleek as much as one can with Winblows, I'm not a
dummy, I know what the fuck I'm doing with a computer. I know what
the updates were bloating onto it, and I know I'd rather use Linux,
where it's sane.
It's useful to have Winblows on a freshly built, state-of-the-artI'm calling bullshit on that excuse.
system - Linux lags a little in supporting fresh hardware.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Labor and the time it takes [assembling computer hardware] is just part of getting a good PC, you
have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not
worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
machine. But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone >>>>> to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time? It's >>>>> not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use out >>>>> of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth >>>>> every minute I put in, assembling it.
But you don't pay "a fortune", Joel.
You pay a small premium.
And your computer is "like new"...
...after you've added a video card to address a failing in your research >>>> when designing your system...
...and replacing the OS with Linux because your system was so poorly
spec'ed it couldn't keep running Windows well.
That's ridiculous. It's normal to add parts as needed, and replace
bloating M$-crapware OSes with Linux. Why are you harping on it?
Because you're trying to convince us your design skills are so "elite",
doofus.
In the space of just 30 months you:
had to add a video card because you didn't realize that you might end up
with a 4K monitor (and you couldn't make a 4K monitor work on a GPU that
is supposed to support one);
had to abandon a $200 investment in Windows, because you either couldn't
spec a system that would keep up with upgrades to Windows or you
couldn't figure out why your system was slowing down.
How is any of that true? The 4K monitor worked with the Intel video,
just not well enough, adding the video card is a minor concern, I
always intended that if there were a need for one I'd be able to do
so. The investment in Windows is nothing to me, I got a lot of use
out of it in 2 1/2 years, until Linux better supported my fresh
hardware. Big fucking deal.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Newegg has prefab systems that aren't the name brand, that's what I'd >>>>> go for if I wanted an OEM, but you can bet anything it won't have a
motherboard like the one I bought as a part.
How is yours materially better...
...I mean apart from "bragging rights"?
It's limitlessly expandable. That's what the bragging rights derive
from.
My MacBook Air is "limitlessly expandable" to, Sunshine.
<https://www.sonnettech.com/product/thunderbolt/pcie-card-expansion-systems.html>
Sounds easy to travel with.
I don't like it. It's like a nasty food. And Win11 is like a serving[The Mac mini] runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
About which you've never been able to articulate what is "goofy" about it. >>>
of food that's too large, but you are nevertheless expected to eat the
whole thing.
"I don't like it" is not the same is "it's goofy", princess.
You cannot articulate a single actual thing that makes a Mac "goofy" or
"quirky".
Finder in Snow Leopard was a piece of junk.
And that says EVERYTHING about you.If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be >>>>> nearly as good. That's undeniable.
Did you buy a personal computer to get things done...
...or to brag about how "l337" you are?
Both.
Given your stated use cases, there is nothing that a Mac Mini couldn't
have done as well (or better) than what you spent more money (and time!)
to end up with.
But it'd run macOS, so ...
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/16/24 4:04 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Newegg has prefab systems that aren't the name brand, that's what I'd >>>>>>> go for if I wanted an OEM, but you can bet anything it won't have a >>>>>>> motherboard like the one I bought as a part.
How is yours materially better...
...I mean apart from "bragging rights"?
It's limitlessly expandable. That's what the bragging rights derive >>>>> from.
My MacBook Air is "limitlessly expandable" to, Sunshine.
<https://www.sonnettech.com/product/thunderbolt/pcie-card-expansion-systems.html>
Sounds easy to travel with.
Yes, it is far easier than to lug a desktop tower, along with its
separate display, separate keyboard, & separate mouse.
Not the point. Alan is trying to conflate laptop "expandability" with
a desktop machine.
[The Mac mini] runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
About which you've never been able to articulate what is "goofy" about it.
I don't like it. It's like a nasty food. And Win11 is like a serving >>>>> of food that's too large, but you are nevertheless expected to eat the >>>>> whole thing.
"I don't like it" is not the same is "it's goofy", princess.
You cannot articulate a single actual thing that makes a Mac "goofy" or >>>> "quirky".
Finder in Snow Leopard was a piece of junk.
I don't recall it being bad at all: it was speedier than its predecessor
and used less resources. Of course, this complaint from Joel is from an
OS introduced fifteen years ago (2009), so at the very least, he should
be sure to compare it to its contemporary of Windows 7, not current OSs.
Win7's Windows Explorer was far better.
And that says EVERYTHING about you.If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be >>>>>>> nearly as good. That's undeniable.
Did you buy a personal computer to get things done...
...or to brag about how "l337" you are?
Both.
Given your stated use cases, there is nothing that a Mac Mini couldn't >>>> have done as well (or better) than what you spent more money (and time!) >>>> to end up with.
But it'd run macOS, so ...
It ships with MacOS, but that's not the only OS choice for l33t braggarts.
Oh sure, buy an Apple device to run something else, that makes sense.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
durability does matter - I had my previous computer, with anThe i5 processor isn't consistent with your claim of "fairly high-end".
Intel-brand motherboard, for 10 years. It was a fairly high-end
system initially, ran the earlier forms of Windows 10 very well, and
was still running Linux beautifully when replaced. I'd like to think
this machine could last as long, or even longer.
It wasn't intended to be in the 2021 device, it was intended to be
"pretty good". The i5 in the 2010 device was higher end, because it
was an early model of that kind of processor.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
It's normal to add parts as needed, and replace
bloating M$-crapware OSes with Linux. Why are you harping on it?
Because you're trying to convince us your design skills are so "elite", >>>> doofus.
In the space of just 30 months you:
had to add a video card because you didn't realize that you might end up >>>> with a 4K monitor (and you couldn't make a 4K monitor work on a GPU that >>>> is supposed to support one);
had to abandon a $200 investment in Windows, because you either couldn't >>>> spec a system that would keep up with upgrades to Windows or you
couldn't figure out why your system was slowing down.
How is any of that true? The 4K monitor worked with the Intel video,
just not well enough, adding the video card is a minor concern, I
always intended that if there were a need for one I'd be able to do
so. The investment in Windows is nothing to me, I got a lot of use
out of it in 2 1/2 years, until Linux better supported my fresh
hardware. Big fucking deal.
You bought Windows, because (presumably) you thought it was the better
choice...
...but then you spec'ed hardware that wasn't able to run it for more
than 2.5 years.
"Able to", it was, acceptably *to me*, not.
And if "investment in Windows is nothing to [you]", then why do you make
such a big deal out of paying less for your system than an equivalent
Mac (which you didn't; a Mac Mini would have done what you're doing and
cost you even less).
Would the mini have 32 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD, pray tell, genius?
And if a monitor isn't working "well enough" and you have to spend
additional dollars to correct it, then you didn't do a very good job of
designing your system in the first place.
It worked as a monitor, Win11 and Intel's video failed to handle it
well.
You spent additional time on installing the new GPU.
You spent additional time on installing and configuring Linux.
Those are costs over and above what you'd have paid if you'd made your
design choices better in the first place.
And I'd rather spend that time than deal with Apple BS.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
durability does matter - I had my previous computer, with anThe i5 processor isn't consistent with your claim of "fairly high-end".
Intel-brand motherboard, for 10 years. It was a fairly high-end
system initially, ran the earlier forms of Windows 10 very well, and
was still running Linux beautifully when replaced. I'd like to think
this machine could last as long, or even longer.
It wasn't intended to be in the 2021 device, it was intended to beThe i5 was NEVER "fairly high-end". The i5 was and is a mid-range
"pretty good". The i5 in the 2010 device was higher end, because it
was an early model of that kind of processor.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
[JWC's desktop PC is] limitlessly expandable. That's what the bragging rights derive
from.
My MacBook Air is "limitlessly expandable" to, Sunshine.
<https://www.sonnettech.com/product/thunderbolt/pcie-card-expansion-systems.html>
Sounds easy to travel with.
We were discussing expandability, sunshine.
In the context of portability, I could take the computer and leave the
PCIe expansion chassis behind.
OK, but it doesn't really make your laptop special.
Which does literally everything you say you do on Linux.And that says EVERYTHING about you.If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not be >>>>>>> nearly as good. That's undeniable.
Did you buy a personal computer to get things done...
...or to brag about how "l337" you are?
Both.
Given your stated use cases, there is nothing that a Mac Mini couldn't >>>> have done as well (or better) than what you spent more money (and time!) >>>> to end up with.
But it'd run macOS, so ...
Any modern computer does. But Linux does it with elegance. WinblowsAnd yet you cannot articulate what supposedly makes it "quirky".
is a behemoth, and macOS is quirky.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/16/24 4:04 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Newegg has prefab systems that aren't the name brand, that's what I'd >>>>>>> go for if I wanted an OEM, but you can bet anything it won't have a >>>>>>> motherboard like the one I bought as a part.
How is yours materially better...
...I mean apart from "bragging rights"?
It's limitlessly expandable. That's what the bragging rights derive >>>>> from.
My MacBook Air is "limitlessly expandable" to, Sunshine.
<https://www.sonnettech.com/product/thunderbolt/pcie-card-expansion-systems.html>
Sounds easy to travel with.
Yes, it is far easier than to lug a desktop tower, along with its
separate display, separate keyboard, & separate mouse.
Not the point. Alan is trying to conflate laptop "expandability" with
a desktop machine.
[The Mac mini] runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
About which you've never been able to articulate what is "goofy" about it.
I don't like it. It's like a nasty food. And Win11 is like a serving >>>>> of food that's too large, but you are nevertheless expected to eat the >>>>> whole thing.
"I don't like it" is not the same is "it's goofy", princess.
You cannot articulate a single actual thing that makes a Mac "goofy" or >>>> "quirky".
Finder in Snow Leopard was a piece of junk.
I don't recall it being bad at all: it was speedier than its predecessor
and used less resources. Of course, this complaint from Joel is from an
OS introduced fifteen years ago (2009), so at the very least, he should
be sure to compare it to its contemporary of Windows 7, not current OSs.
Win7's Windows Explorer was far better.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm calling bullshit on that excuse.I kept my system sleek as much as one can with Winblows, I'm not aSo why spend $200 on Windows in the first place?
dummy, I know what the fuck I'm doing with a computer. I know what
the updates were bloating onto it, and I know I'd rather use Linux,
where it's sane.
It's useful to have Winblows on a freshly built, state-of-the-art
system - Linux lags a little in supporting fresh hardware.
Show me that Linux didn't support your system's components in any
respect when you bought it.
I tried booting a USB of Linux with it, early on, it didn't even load
the installer properly.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
It's normal to add parts as needed, and replace
bloating M$-crapware OSes with Linux. Why are you harping on it?
Because you're trying to convince us your design skills are so "elite", >>>> doofus.
In the space of just 30 months you:
had to add a video card because you didn't realize that you might end up >>>> with a 4K monitor (and you couldn't make a 4K monitor work on a GPU that >>>> is supposed to support one);
had to abandon a $200 investment in Windows, because you either couldn't >>>> spec a system that would keep up with upgrades to Windows or you
couldn't figure out why your system was slowing down.
How is any of that true? The 4K monitor worked with the Intel video,
just not well enough, adding the video card is a minor concern, I
always intended that if there were a need for one I'd be able to do
so. The investment in Windows is nothing to me, I got a lot of use
out of it in 2 1/2 years, until Linux better supported my fresh
hardware. Big fucking deal.
You bought Windows, because (presumably) you thought it was the better
choice...
...but then you spec'ed hardware that wasn't able to run it for more
than 2.5 years.
"Able to", it was, acceptably *to me*, not.
And if "investment in Windows is nothing to [you]", then why do you make
such a big deal out of paying less for your system than an equivalent
Mac (which you didn't; a Mac Mini would have done what you're doing and
cost you even less).
Would the mini have 32 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD, pray tell, genius?
And if a monitor isn't working "well enough" and you have to spend
additional dollars to correct it, then you didn't do a very good job of
designing your system in the first place.
It worked as a monitor, Win11 and Intel's video failed to handle it
well.
You spent additional time on installing the new GPU.
You spent additional time on installing and configuring Linux.
Those are costs over and above what you'd have paid if you'd made your
design choices better in the first place.
And I'd rather spend that time than deal with Apple BS.And yet when asked to describe what makes it "BS", you always punk out.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/16/24 6:07 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
It wasn't intended to be in the 2021 device, it was intended to bedurability does matter - I had my previous computer, with anThe i5 processor isn't consistent with your claim of "fairly high-end". >>>
Intel-brand motherboard, for 10 years. It was a fairly high-end
system initially, ran the earlier forms of Windows 10 very well, and >>>>> was still running Linux beautifully when replaced. I'd like to think >>>>> this machine could last as long, or even longer.
"pretty good". The i5 in the 2010 device was higher end, because it
was an early model of that kind of processor.
Oh, so the 2010 box had an i5 too?
Well, back in that era, the i5 was a newly designed/designated CPU, but
it wasn't "higher end" because the i7 and Xeons were already out by then
too, and Intel's corporate roadmap was that Xeons was for workstations
and the i7 targeted the business and high-end consumer markets, which
left the i5 for mainstream consumer and i3 for entry-level consumers.
There were still a lot of two-core CPUs being sold at the time, mineAnd there were many far faster 4+ core CPUs offered by Intel.
was four-core.
Win7's Windows Explorer was far better.
Windows Internet Explorer was an App, not an OS. And IE7 was such a
'great' product that MS lost their marketshare lead to Firefox in 2009.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
The i5 was NEVER "fairly high-end". The i5 was and is a mid-rangeIt wasn't intended to be in the 2021 device, it was intended to bedurability does matter - I had my previous computer, with anThe i5 processor isn't consistent with your claim of "fairly high-end". >>>
Intel-brand motherboard, for 10 years. It was a fairly high-end
system initially, ran the earlier forms of Windows 10 very well, and >>>>> was still running Linux beautifully when replaced. I'd like to think >>>>> this machine could last as long, or even longer.
"pretty good". The i5 in the 2010 device was higher end, because it
was an early model of that kind of processor.
processor.
Why can you not admit the obvious?
No, the CPU I had in my old computer was higher end, at the time INo. It was not "higher end".
assembled it. There were still a lot of more primitive CPUs being
sold, at the time.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-16 14:53, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/16/24 4:04 PM, Joel wrote:Win7's Windows Explorer was far better.
Finder in Snow Leopard was a piece of junk.
I don't recall it being bad at all: it was speedier than its predecessor >>>> and used less resources. Of course, this complaint from Joel is from an >>>> OS introduced fifteen years ago (2009), so at the very least, he should >>>> be sure to compare it to its contemporary of Windows 7, not current OSs. >>>
IN
WHAT
SPECIFIC
WAY?
Context menus, etc.We've debunked that one.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001547&hvtargid=pla-2190493457657&psc=1&mcid=5f9e3a8965ea37bc89aca8270bb63779&gad_source=1>
On some computers (which would have cost you less) you can buy drives >>>>>>>> that perfectly sit under the desktop:
<https://www.amazon.ca/Enclosure-Docking-Station-Readers-Compatible/dp/B0C33HS3RP/ref=asc_df_B0C33HS3RP/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=708007226763&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13265770567124847550&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&
So by that argument, an all-in-one is more "elegant" than having anWhy? What makes it more "elegant"?Which is better in what measurable way?
<https://ca.macsales.com/shop/external-drives/owc-ministack>
Super neato, but my motherboard can already handle another NVMe or >>>>>>> two.
It's elegant.
It's just a piece of the computer, once installed. No wire.
external monitor?
No.
This looks pretty "elegant" to me:
<https://www.owc.com/solutions/ministack-stx>
Or this:
<https://satechi.net/landing/new-stand-and-hub-m4-mac-mini>
Remember: Thunderbolt literally IS PCIe...
OK, but why not just have a real case, a real motherboard? Why theWhat makes one more "real" than the other?
quirks?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm calling bullshit on that excuse.So why spend $200 on Windows in the first place [instead of starting with Linux]?
It's useful to have Winblows on a freshly built, state-of-the-art
system - Linux lags a little in supporting fresh hardware.
Show me that Linux didn't support your system's components in any
respect when you bought it.
I tried booting a USB of Linux with it, early on, it didn't even load
the installer properly.
You failing to do something is NOT proof it can't be done.
I didn't fail to do anything, the installer didn't boot, shut the fuckYou failed to find an installer that would boot.
up, nerd.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No. It was not "higher end".The i5 was NEVER "fairly high-end". The i5 was and is a mid-range
processor.
Why can you not admit the obvious?
No, the CPU I had in my old computer was higher end, at the time I
assembled it. There were still a lot of more primitive CPUs being
sold, at the time.
Wrong.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001547&hvtargid=pla-2190493457657&psc=1&mcid=5f9e3a8965ea37bc89aca8270bb63779&gad_source=1>
On some computers (which would have cost you less) you can buy drives
that perfectly sit under the desktop:
<https://www.amazon.ca/Enclosure-Docking-Station-Readers-Compatible/dp/B0C33HS3RP/ref=asc_df_B0C33HS3RP/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=708007226763&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13265770567124847550&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&
So by that argument, an all-in-one is more "elegant" than having anWhy? What makes it more "elegant"?Which is better in what measurable way?Super neato, but my motherboard can already handle another NVMe or >>>>>>>>> two.
<https://ca.macsales.com/shop/external-drives/owc-ministack> >>>>>>>>>
It's elegant.
It's just a piece of the computer, once installed. No wire.
external monitor?
No.
But you just defined elegance by lack of wires...
But not by marrying different components to each other, creating a
fragile system.
What makes one more "real" than the other?This looks pretty "elegant" to me:
<https://www.owc.com/solutions/ministack-stx>
Or this:
<https://satechi.net/landing/new-stand-and-hub-m4-mac-mini>
Remember: Thunderbolt literally IS PCIe...
OK, but why not just have a real case, a real motherboard? Why the
quirks?
Expandability.Which I've already addressed.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You failed to find an installer that would boot.Show me that Linux didn't support your system's components in any
respect when you bought it.
I tried booting a USB of Linux with it, early on, it didn't even load >>>>> the installer properly.
You failing to do something is NOT proof it can't be done.
I didn't fail to do anything, the installer didn't boot, shut the fuck
up, nerd.
That's not the same thing.
Idiot, there was nothing wrong with the USB disk, it didn't load the
Linux installer on my fresh hardware. Use your brain, if Apple didn't replace it with their propaganda.
On 2024-12-17 10:43, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No. It was not "higher end".The i5 was NEVER "fairly high-end". The i5 was and is a mid-range
processor.
Why can you not admit the obvious?
No, the CPU I had in my old computer was higher end, at the time I
assembled it. There were still a lot of more primitive CPUs being
sold, at the time.
Wrong.
All the high-end processors Intel was producing in 2010 disagree.
In 2010, Intel released:
29 processors with 4 cores.
Just two of them were i5s.
As well as:
16 processors with 6 cores.
4 processors with 8 cores.
None of those were i5s.
Face facts, snowflake.
On 2024-12-17 11:50, Joel wrote:source=1>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On some computers (which would have cost you less) you can >>>>>>>>>>> buy drives
that perfectly sit under the desktop:
<https://www.amazon.ca/Enclosure-Docking-Station-Readers- >>>>>>>>>>> Compatible/dp/B0C33HS3RP/ref=asc_df_B0C33HS3RP/?
tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=708007226763&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13265770567124847550&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001547&hvtargid=pla-2190493457657&psc=1&mcid=5f9e3a8965ea37bc89aca8270bb63779&gad_
So by that argument, an all-in-one is more "elegant" than having anWhy? What makes it more "elegant"?Which is better in what measurable way?Super neato, but my motherboard can already handle another >>>>>>>>>> NVMe or
<https://ca.macsales.com/shop/external-drives/owc-ministack> >>>>>>>>>>
two.
It's elegant.
It's just a piece of the computer, once installed. No wire.
external monitor?
No.
But you just defined elegance by lack of wires...
But not by marrying different components to each other, creating a
fragile system.
So then an external monitor is "fragile"?
What makes one more "real" than the other?This looks pretty "elegant" to me:
<https://www.owc.com/solutions/ministack-stx>
Or this:
<https://satechi.net/landing/new-stand-and-hub-m4-mac-mini>
Remember: Thunderbolt literally IS PCIe...
OK, but why not just have a real case, a real motherboard? Why the
quirks?
Expandability.
Which I've already addressed.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You failed to find an installer that would boot.Show me that Linux didn't support your system's components in any >>>>>>>> respect when you bought it.
I tried booting a USB of Linux with it, early on, it didn't even load >>>>>>> the installer properly.
You failing to do something is NOT proof it can't be done.
I didn't fail to do anything, the installer didn't boot, shut the fuck >>>>> up, nerd.
That's not the same thing.
Idiot, there was nothing wrong with the USB disk, it didn't load the
Linux installer on my fresh hardware. Use your brain, if Apple didn't
replace it with their propaganda.
Sounds like a PEBCAK issue to me...
And that is why you are a dummy, nerd.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You failed to find an installer that would boot.Show me that Linux didn't support your system's components in any >>>>>>>> respect when you bought it.
I tried booting a USB of Linux with it, early on, it didn't even load >>>>>>> the installer properly.
You failing to do something is NOT proof it can't be done.
I didn't fail to do anything, the installer didn't boot, shut the fuck >>>>> up, nerd.
That's not the same thing.
Idiot, there was nothing wrong with the USB disk, it didn't load the
Linux installer on my fresh hardware. Use your brain, if Apple didn't
replace it with their propaganda.
Sounds like a PEBCAK issue to me...
And that is why you are a dummy, nerd.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/17/24 4:09 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Sounds like a PEBCAK issue to me...
And that is why you are a dummy, nerd.
But how is he wrong?
Certainly, you're not suggesting that anyone who tries to install Linux
on a Windows PC is doomed to fail, because we've seen that even people
like RonB have done so successfully.
So just what tangible evidence do you have that it is something that has
to do with the shortcomings of Linux and not shortcomings of *you*?
Damn...choose your poison, dude.
Listen up, fellow, this USB had been used to install Linux. Don't be
a fucking moron. It is actually possible that the Linux installer saw
I already had Winblows, and was prompting me to wait a while to get
rid of it, but in any event it was a black screen. There wasn't a
problem with the disk, I'm not retarded.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
this USB had been used to install Linux. Don't be
a fucking moron. It is actually possible that the Linux installer saw
I already had Winblows, and was prompting me to wait a while to get
rid of it, but in any event it was a black screen. There wasn't a
problem with the disk, I'm not retarded.
That fact that it "had been" used doesn't mean it was the right media to
install Linux on that particular PC, doofus.
Incorrect, "doofus", it was the normal 64-bit media, you're a fuckingNo. I'm not incorrect.
moron.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No. I'm not incorrect.this USB had been used to install Linux. Don't be
a fucking moron. It is actually possible that the Linux installer saw >>>>> I already had Winblows, and was prompting me to wait a while to get
rid of it, but in any event it was a black screen. There wasn't a
problem with the disk, I'm not retarded.
That fact that it "had been" used doesn't mean it was the right media to >>>> install Linux on that particular PC, doofus.
Incorrect, "doofus", it was the normal 64-bit media, you're a fucking
moron.
You failing to be able to do something isn't proof it cannot be done.
I didn't "fail" to do anything, I had working media, neither Linux
distro's USB booted to anything on the screen - you are a fucking
moron.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I didn't "fail" to do anything, I had working media, neither Linux
distro's USB booted to anything on the screen - you are a fucking
moron.
You imagine the words "working media" mean "works on everything
forever", do you?
I had used them *recently* on the old computer, they were made by it.
Could it be that there was a way to install Linux, though, yes there
still are other distros like Gentoo, but I got the sense I should just
enjoy Winblows for a while, and predictably I've switched back to
Linux on the new hardware.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I didn't "fail" to do anything, I had working media, neither Linux
distro's USB booted to anything on the screen - you are a fucking
moron.
You imagine the words "working media" mean "works on everything
forever", do you?
I had used them *recently* on the old computer, they were made by it.
Could it be that there was a way to install Linux, though, yes there
still are other distros like Gentoo, but I got the sense I should just
enjoy Winblows for a while, and predictably I've switched back to
Linux on the new hardware.
You are good at making excuses, I'll give you that.
What excuse did I make? I talk real talk. Yes, there was an issue
with booting USB installer disks to try Linux on the new machine.
Later, when I was tired of Windows, I have had great results using
Linux on the machine.
In <f076mjtsc1b1b6ivob90g7m9e9gt465md9@4ax.com> Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I didn't "fail" to do anything, I had working media, neither Linux >>>>>> distro's USB booted to anything on the screen - you are a fucking
moron.
You imagine the words "working media" mean "works on everything
forever", do you?
I had used them *recently* on the old computer, they were made by it.
Could it be that there was a way to install Linux, though, yes there
still are other distros like Gentoo, but I got the sense I should just >>>> enjoy Winblows for a while, and predictably I've switched back to
Linux on the new hardware.
You are good at making excuses, I'll give you that.
What excuse did I make? I talk real talk. Yes, there was an issue
with booting USB installer disks to try Linux on the new machine.
Later, when I was tired of Windows, I have had great results using
Linux on the machine.
Why limit yourself to one OS? Run both.
will <willford@yahoo.com> wrote:
when I was tired of Windows, I have had great results using
Linux on the machine.
Why limit yourself to one OS? Run both.
I have no desire to see M$ booted on my system again.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 16:50, will wrote:
Why limit yourself to one OS? Run both.
Or as you could do on a Mac: run all three!
The Mac running Winblows is not that credible, possible to boot itIt is absolutely credible...
sure, but it's a small side thing.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 17:19, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:It is absolutely credible...
On 2024-12-20 16:50, will wrote:
Why limit yourself to one OS? Run both.
Or as you could do on a Mac: run all three!
The Mac running Winblows is not that credible, possible to boot it
sure, but it's a small side thing.
...or at least it was absolutely credible...
...until Apple started producing better processors and using them.
:-)
I destroyed the MacBook with Windows 7 along with my friend, it was aSuuuuure you did.
fun thing to try out OS X and see Windows on Apple hardware.
On 2024-12-20 17:19, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:It is absolutely credible...
On 2024-12-20 16:50, will wrote:
Why limit yourself to one OS? Run both.
Or as you could do on a Mac: run all three!
The Mac running Winblows is not that credible, possible to boot it
sure, but it's a small side thing.
...or at least it was absolutely credible...
...until Apple started producing better processors and using them.
:-)
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 17:50, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:Suuuuure you did.
On 2024-12-20 17:19, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:It is absolutely credible...
On 2024-12-20 16:50, will wrote:
Why limit yourself to one OS? Run both.
Or as you could do on a Mac: run all three!
The Mac running Winblows is not that credible, possible to boot it
sure, but it's a small side thing.
...or at least it was absolutely credible...
...until Apple started producing better processors and using them.
:-)
I destroyed the MacBook with Windows 7 along with my friend, it was a
fun thing to try out OS X and see Windows on Apple hardware.
You have a lot of gall, Alan, this thing did fry with Win7 on it. AndLeopard on it only really demonstrates that Linux would deliver Unix
it's not surprising, given its meager specs. Apple putting Snow>
and distro customizations without paying for Apple's hardware, instead replacing a worthless Winblows Home OEM setup on much more potentSorry.
laptop hardware.
On 12/20/24 8:42 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-20 17:19, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:It is absolutely credible...
On 2024-12-20 16:50, will wrote:
Why limit yourself to one OS? Run both.
Or as you could do on a Mac: run all three!
The Mac running Winblows is not that credible, possible to boot it
sure, but it's a small side thing.
...or at least it was absolutely credible...
...until Apple started producing better processors and using them.
:-)
Its just no longer Boot Camp today, but easily done by running within a
VM; ARM64 Windows 11 is presently at version 24H2: same as x86 Win11.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
[Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is] easily done by running within a
VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to buy Apple to
run M$, though.
On 12/20/2024 7:05 PM, -hh wrote:
On 12/20/24 8:42 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-20 17:19, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 16:50, will wrote:
Why limit yourself to one OS? Run both.
Or as you could do on a Mac: run all three!
The Mac running Winblows is not that credible, possible to boot it
sure, but it's a small side thing.
It is absolutely credible...
...or at least it was absolutely credible...
...until Apple started producing better processors and using them.
:-)
Its just no longer Boot Camp today, but easily done by running within
a VM; ARM64 Windows 11 is presently at version 24H2: same as x86 Win11.
Compatibility on 11 is poor. Some things run okay, other things like enterprise storage management software has fractured windows that
operate but can't display anything. The software works fine on 10,8,7.
It has another three years before it's EOS/EOL so equipment owners must maintain Windows 10 VMs to manage their investments unless an OEM
provides updates.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Leopard on it only really demonstrates that Linux would deliver UnixI destroyed the MacBook with Windows 7 along with my friend, it was a >>>>> fun thing to try out OS X and see Windows on Apple hardware.Suuuuure you did.
You have a lot of gall, Alan, this thing did fry with Win7 on it. And
it's not surprising, given its meager specs. Apple putting Snow>
and distro customizations without paying for Apple's hardware, insteadSorry.
replacing a worthless Winblows Home OEM setup on much more potent
laptop hardware.
Describe HOW you supposedly put Windows 7 on that Mac.
Easily, you bypass Apple, you eliminate OS X AKA macOS from the
machine.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
[Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is] easily done by running within a
VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to buy Apple to
run M$, though.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
[Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is] easily done by running
within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to buy Apple
to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of operating >>systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
[Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is] easily done by running
within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to buy Apple
to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of operating
systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
On 2024-12-16 09:54, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.
That you have ... or that you need?
Case in point, you were asked awhile back about how much disk space your >>> PC took up when you first bought it, and how much it is taking up today. >>>
Needless to say, you avoided ever providing an answer, but we do know
indirectly that your storage growth needs are less than 300GB/year.
I'll never use up the 1 TB, that's kind of the point. The drive could
last many years. You want to have extra storage.
And if you have a desktop, then that storage can just as easily and effectively be an external drive.>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'll never use up the 1 TB [NVMe SSD], that's kind of the point. The
drive could
last many years. You want to have extra storage.
And if you have a desktop, then that storage can just as easily and >>effectively be an external drive.>
But then you have this dangling external device. I like to have it
inside the case.
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.
That you have ... or that you need?
Case in point, you were asked awhile back about how much disk space your
PC took up when you first bought it, and how much it is taking up today.
Needless to say, you avoided ever providing an answer, but we do know >>indirectly that your storage growth needs are less than 300GB/year.
I'll never use up the 1 TB, that's kind of the point. The drive could
last many years. You want to have extra storage.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
"dangling"?I'll never use up the 1 TB [NVMe SSD], that's kind of the point. The >>>>> drive could
last many years. You want to have extra storage.
And if you have a desktop, then that storage can just as easily and
effectively be an external drive.>
But then you have this dangling external device. I like to have it
inside the case.
That's a very odd way to phrase it.
Having it inside the case is important if you have a laptop, but given
the size of external drives these days, almost completely irrelevant if
you have a desktop computer.
Does it bother you that your monitor is "dangling"?
Or your keyboard?
:-)
They aren't dangling, they're supposed to be where they are, an
external storage drive that just sits there plugged in, in constant
use, is dangling.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Why is that different?Does it bother you that your monitor is "dangling"?
Or your keyboard?
:-)
They aren't dangling, they're supposed to be where they are, an
external storage drive that just sits there plugged in, in constant
use, is dangling.
You're USED TO an external monitor and keyboard, but an external drive >>>> is no different.
How in God's name would a monitor or keyboard not be external?
You're kidding.
You are NOT this dumb. No one could possibly be this clueless?
How could a monitor no be internal? Really?
<https://www.apple.com/imac/>
<https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/desktop-computers/scr/desktops/appref=all-in-one-form-factor>
<https://www.hp.com/ca-en/shop/list.aspx?sel=DTP&ctrl=f&fc_form_aio=1>
I could go on, but could you really look any dumber? I don't think so.
As for the keyboard, I was being a tiny bit facetious, but you are >>literally reading words I type on the built-in keyboard...
...of my LAPTOP.
These are not internal things in this context.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001547&hvtargid=pla-2190493457657&psc=1&mcid=5f9e3a8965ea37bc89aca8270bb63779&gad_source=1>
On some computers (which would have cost you less) you can buy drives >>>>>> that perfectly sit under the desktop:
<https://www.amazon.ca/Enclosure-Docking-Station-Readers-Compatible/dp/B0C33HS3RP/ref=asc_df_B0C33HS3RP/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=708007226763&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13265770567124847550&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&
Why? What makes it more "elegant"?Which is better in what measurable way?
<https://ca.macsales.com/shop/external-drives/owc-ministack>
Super neato, but my motherboard can already handle another NVMe or
two.
It's elegant.
It's just a piece of the computer, once installed. No wire.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001547&hvtargid=pla-2190493457657&psc=1&mcid=5f9e3a8965ea37bc89aca8270bb63779&gad_source=1>
On some computers (which would have cost you less) you can buy >>>>>>>> drives
that perfectly sit under the desktop:
<https://www.amazon.ca/Enclosure-Docking-Station-Readers-Compatible/dp/B0C33HS3RP/ref=asc_df_B0C33HS3RP/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=708007226763&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13265770567124847550&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&
So by that argument, an all-in-one is more "elegant" than having an >>external monitor?Why? What makes it more "elegant"?Which is better in what measurable way?
<https://ca.macsales.com/shop/external-drives/owc-ministack>
Super neato, but my motherboard can already handle another NVMe or >>>>>>> two.
It's elegant.
It's just a piece of the computer, once installed. No wire.
No.
On 2024-12-17 10:39, Joel wrote:hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001547&hvtargid=pla-2190493457657&psc=1&mcid=5f9e3a8965ea37bc89aca8270bb63779&gad_source=1>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On some computers (which would have cost you less) you can buy >>>>>>>>> drives
that perfectly sit under the desktop:
<https://www.amazon.ca/Enclosure-Docking-Station-Readers-Compatible/dp/B0C33HS3RP/ref=asc_df_B0C33HS3RP/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=708007226763&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13265770567124847550&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&
So by that argument, an all-in-one is more "elegant" than having anWhy? What makes it more "elegant"?Which is better in what measurable way?
<https://ca.macsales.com/shop/external-drives/owc-ministack>
Super neato, but my motherboard can already handle another NVMe or >>>>>>>> two.
It's elegant.
It's just a piece of the computer, once installed. No wire.
external monitor?
No.
But you just defined elegance by lack of wires...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001547&hvtargid=pla-2190493457657&psc=1&mcid=5f9e3a8965ea37bc89aca8270bb63779&gad_source=1>
On some computers (which would have cost you less) you can buy >>>>>>>>>> drives
that perfectly sit under the desktop:
<https://www.amazon.ca/Enclosure-Docking-Station-Readers-Compatible/dp/B0C33HS3RP/ref=asc_df_B0C33HS3RP/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=708007226763&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13265770567124847550&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&
So by that argument, an all-in-one is more "elegant" than having anWhy? What makes it more "elegant"?Which is better in what measurable way?Super neato, but my motherboard can already handle another NVMe or >>>>>>>>> two.
<https://ca.macsales.com/shop/external-drives/owc-ministack> >>>>>>>>>
It's elegant.
It's just a piece of the computer, once installed. No wire.
external monitor?
No.
But you just defined elegance by lack of wires...
But not by marrying different components to each other, creating a
fragile system.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.
Dude... ...you bought an i5 and it turned out to be the wrong one to
have bought when you discovered you couldn't make it work with a 4K >>monitor.
How is that even remotely true?
On 2024-12-16 09:02, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Likewise, we've also seen how a Mac mini stops the living shit out >>>>>>> ofThe Mac mini is OK, I wouldn't say it "stops the living shit out of" >>>>>> my machine. It runs Apple's goofy OS, in any event.
your i5 DIY, while costing less than the $1150 you've spent to date. >>>>>>> So
just where is this so-called 'fortune' that people allegedly pay? >>>>>>
*stomp Apologies for a typo.
We've already seen the CPU benchmarks and disk I/O. If not "stomp", >>>>> then how do you want to describe being higher at a lower price?
Especially since there's no OS monopoly anymore either:
<https://asahilinux.org/about/>
A Mac mini purchased when I built my machine wouldn't be any faster
than what I have.
The 2020 mini model would have been cheaper.
The current mini model is faster & cheaper.
A Mac mini wouldn't have the specs that I have.
Dude... ...you bought an i5 and it turned out to be the wrong one to have bought when you discovered you couldn't make it work with a 4K monitor.
And if we benchmarked your i5 against a 2020 Mini... ...how would it fare?
No... ...Windows did NOT outgrow your hardware in 2-3 years...If I had spent a comparable amount on a comparable OEM PC, it'd not >>>>>> be
nearly as good. That's undeniable.
Except of course for how its already been shown that you could have
bought your so-called "overpriced" Apple gear for less & gotten
more...
...and your retort is that the OEM OS is "goofy", even though Linux is >>>>> an alternative.
I see Linux as the default OS, actually, it's M$ and Apple that are
proprietary, commercial platforms, consumerism, not real computing
enthusiasm.
Yet that didn't stop you from buying & running on Windows OS for the
first ~2/3rds of the life of your current PC.
I needed Win10/11 at first, and enjoyed using them, but I moved on. It
was worth it. I got my use out of it, but it outgrew my hardware, as
M$ crapware tends to do, so I got out, I installed Linux. All is
well.
...unless you bought the wrong hardware to begin with.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001547&hvtargid=pla-2190493457657&psc=1&mcid=5f9e3a8965ea37bc89aca8270bb63779&gad_source=1>
On some computers (which would have cost you less) you can buy >>>>>>>>>> drives
that perfectly sit under the desktop:
<https://www.amazon.ca/Enclosure-Docking-Station-Readers-Compatible/dp/B0C33HS3RP/ref=asc_df_B0C33HS3RP/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=708007226763&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13265770567124847550&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&
So by that argument, an all-in-one is more "elegant" than having anWhy? What makes it more "elegant"?Which is better in what measurable way?Super neato, but my motherboard can already handle another NVMe or >>>>>>>>> two.
<https://ca.macsales.com/shop/external-drives/owc-ministack> >>>>>>>>>
It's elegant.
It's just a piece of the computer, once installed. No wire.
external monitor?
No.
But you just defined elegance by lack of wires...
But not by marrying different components to each other, creating a
fragile system.
What makes one more "real" than the other?This looks pretty "elegant" to me:
<https://www.owc.com/solutions/ministack-stx>
Or this:
<https://satechi.net/landing/new-stand-and-hub-m4-mac-mini>
Remember: Thunderbolt literally IS PCIe...
OK, but why not just have a real case, a real motherboard? Why the
quirks?
Expandability.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
So why spend $200 on Windows in the first place?I needed Win10/11 at first, and enjoyed using them, but I moved on. >>>>>>> ItNo... ...Windows did NOT outgrow your hardware in 2-3 years...
was worth it. I got my use out of it, but it outgrew my hardware, >>>>>>> as
M$ crapware tends to do, so I got out, I installed Linux. All is >>>>>>> well.
...unless you bought the wrong hardware to begin with.
You really underestimate what M$ does. They have proven that they
support brand-new, high-end devices, in any real sense, that you can >>>>> boot their crapware on a smaller system doesn't mean it will perform >>>>> adequately, this is why Linux isn't just some oddball alternative,
it's the real deal.
I do Windows support for a living (because my clients that have Macs
basically never need to see me), and I know what makes Windows slow
down.
Hint: it's usually NOT the hardware.
I kept my system sleek as much as one can with Winblows, I'm not a
dummy, I know what the fuck I'm doing with a computer. I know what
the updates were bloating onto it, and I know I'd rather use Linux,
where it's sane.
It's useful to have Winblows on a freshly built, state-of-the-art
system - Linux lags a little in supporting fresh hardware.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm calling bullshit on that excuse.I kept my system sleek as much as one can with Winblows, I'm not aSo why spend $200 on Windows in the first place?
dummy, I know what the fuck I'm doing with a computer. I know what
the updates were bloating onto it, and I know I'd rather use Linux,
where it's sane.
It's useful to have Winblows on a freshly built, state-of-the-art
system - Linux lags a little in supporting fresh hardware.
Show me that Linux didn't support your system's components in any
respect when you bought it.
I tried booting a USB of Linux with it, early on, it didn't even load
the installer properly.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I needed Win10/11 at first, and enjoyed using them, but I moved on. It >>>>> was worth it. I got my use out of it, but it outgrew my hardware, as >>>>> M$ crapware tends to do, so I got out, I installed Linux. All isNo... ...Windows did NOT outgrow your hardware in 2-3 years...
well.
...unless you bought the wrong hardware to begin with.
You really underestimate what M$ does. They have proven that they
support brand-new, high-end devices, in any real sense, that you can
boot their crapware on a smaller system doesn't mean it will perform
adequately, this is why Linux isn't just some oddball alternative,
it's the real deal.
I do Windows support for a living (because my clients that have Macs >>basically never need to see me), and I know what makes Windows slow down.
Hint: it's usually NOT the hardware.
I kept my system sleek as much as one can with Winblows,
On 2024-12-16 15:20, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm calling bullshit on that excuse.I kept my system sleek as much as one can with Winblows, I'm not a >>>>>> dummy, I know what the fuck I'm doing with a computer. I know what >>>>>> the updates were bloating onto it, and I know I'd rather use Linux, >>>>>> where it's sane.So why spend $200 on Windows in the first place?
It's useful to have Winblows on a freshly built, state-of-the-art
system - Linux lags a little in supporting fresh hardware.
Show me that Linux didn't support your system's components in any
respect when you bought it.
I tried booting a USB of Linux with it, early on, it didn't even load
the installer properly.
You failing to do something is NOT proof it can't be done.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm calling bullshit on that excuse.So why spend $200 on Windows in the first place [instead of starting >>>>>> with Linux]?
It's useful to have Winblows on a freshly built, state-of-the-art
system - Linux lags a little in supporting fresh hardware.
Show me that Linux didn't support your system's components in any
respect when you bought it.
I tried booting a USB of Linux with it, early on, it didn't even load
the installer properly.
You failing to do something is NOT proof it can't be done.
I didn't fail to do anything, the installer didn't boot, shut the fuck
up, nerd.
On 2024-12-17 10:41, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:You failed to find an installer that would boot.
I'm calling bullshit on that excuse.So why spend $200 on Windows in the first place [instead of starting >>>>>>> with Linux]?
It's useful to have Winblows on a freshly built, state-of-the-art
system - Linux lags a little in supporting fresh hardware.
Show me that Linux didn't support your system's components in any
respect when you bought it.
I tried booting a USB of Linux with it, early on, it didn't even load
the installer properly.
You failing to do something is NOT proof it can't be done.
I didn't fail to do anything, the installer didn't boot, shut the fuck
up, nerd.
That's not the same thing.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You failed to find an installer that would boot.Show me that Linux didn't support your system's components in any
respect when you bought it.
I tried booting a USB of Linux with it, early on, it didn't even load >>>>> the installer properly.
You failing to do something is NOT proof it can't be done.
I didn't fail to do anything, the installer didn't boot, shut the fuck
up, nerd.
That's not the same thing.
Idiot, there was nothing wrong with the USB disk, it didn't load the
Linux installer on my fresh hardware. Use your brain, if Apple didn't replace it with their propaganda.
On 2024-12-17 11:51, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You failed to find an installer that would boot.Show me that Linux didn't support your system's components in any >>>>>>> respect when you bought it.
I tried booting a USB of Linux with it, early on, it didn't even load >>>>>> the installer properly.
You failing to do something is NOT proof it can't be done.
I didn't fail to do anything, the installer didn't boot, shut the fuck >>>> up, nerd.
That's not the same thing.
Idiot, there was nothing wrong with the USB disk, it didn't load the
Linux installer on my fresh hardware. Use your brain, if Apple didn't
replace it with their propaganda.
Sounds like a PEBCAK issue to me...
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/17/24 4:09 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Sounds like a PEBCAK issue to me...
And that is why you are a dummy, nerd.
But how is he wrong?
Certainly, you're not suggesting that anyone who tries to install Linux
on a Windows PC is doomed to fail, because we've seen that even people
like RonB have done so successfully.
So just what tangible evidence do you have that it is something that has
to do with the shortcomings of Linux and not shortcomings of *you*?
Damn...choose your poison, dude.
Listen up, fellow, this USB had been used to install Linux.
Don't be
a fucking moron.
It is actually possible that the Linux installer saw
I already had Winblows, and was prompting me to wait a while to get
rid of it, but in any event it was a black screen.
There wasn't a
problem with the disk,
I'm not retarded.
On 2024-12-17 17:26, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:No. I'm not incorrect.
this USB had been used to install Linux. Don't be
a fucking moron. It is actually possible that the Linux installer saw >>>> I already had Winblows, and was prompting me to wait a while to get
rid of it, but in any event it was a black screen. There wasn't a
problem with the disk, I'm not retarded.
That fact that it "had been" used doesn't mean it was the right media to >>> install Linux on that particular PC, doofus.
Incorrect, "doofus", it was the normal 64-bit media, you're a fucking
moron.
You failing to be able to do something isn't proof it cannot be done.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
this USB had been used to install Linux. Don't be
a fucking moron. It is actually possible that the Linux installer saw
I already had Winblows, and was prompting me to wait a while to get
rid of it, but in any event it was a black screen. There wasn't a
problem with the disk, I'm not retarded.
That fact that it "had been" used doesn't mean it was the right media to >>install Linux on that particular PC, doofus.
Incorrect, "doofus", it was the normal 64-bit media, you're a fucking
moron.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No. I'm not incorrect.this USB had been used to install Linux. Don't be
a fucking moron. It is actually possible that the Linux installer saw >>>>> I already had Winblows, and was prompting me to wait a while to get
rid of it, but in any event it was a black screen. There wasn't a
problem with the disk, I'm not retarded.
That fact that it "had been" used doesn't mean it was the right media
to
install Linux on that particular PC, doofus.
Incorrect, "doofus", it was the normal 64-bit media, you're a fucking
moron.
You failing to be able to do something isn't proof it cannot be done.
I didn't "fail" to do anything,
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I didn't "fail" to do anything, I had working media, neither Linux
distro's USB booted to anything on the screen - you are a fucking
moron.
You imagine the words "working media" mean "works on everything
forever", do you?
I had used them *recently* on the old computer, they were made by it.
Could it be that there was a way to install Linux, though, yes there
still are other distros like Gentoo, but I got the sense I should just
enjoy Winblows for a while, and predictably I've switched back to
Linux on the new hardware.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I didn't "fail" to do anything, I had working media, neither Linux
distro's USB booted to anything on the screen - you are a fucking
moron.
You imagine the words "working media" mean "works on everything
forever", do you?
I had used them *recently* on the old computer, they were made by it.
Could it be that there was a way to install Linux, though, yes there
still are other distros like Gentoo, but I got the sense I should just
enjoy Winblows for a while, and predictably I've switched back to
Linux on the new hardware.
You are good at making excuses, I'll give you that.
What excuse did I make? I talk real talk. Yes, there was an issue
with booting USB installer disks to try Linux on the new machine.
Later, when I was tired of Windows, I have had great results using
Linux on the machine.
In <f076mjtsc1b1b6ivob90g7m9e9gt465md9@4ax.com> Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I didn't "fail" to do anything, I had working media, neither Linux >>>>>> distro's USB booted to anything on the screen - you are a fucking
moron.
You imagine the words "working media" mean "works on everything
forever", do you?
I had used them *recently* on the old computer, they were made by it.
Could it be that there was a way to install Linux, though, yes there
still are other distros like Gentoo, but I got the sense I should just >>>> enjoy Winblows for a while, and predictably I've switched back to
Linux on the new hardware.
You are good at making excuses, I'll give you that.
What excuse did I make? I talk real talk. Yes, there was an issue
with booting USB installer disks to try Linux on the new machine.
Later, when I was tired of Windows, I have had great results using
Linux on the machine.
Why limit yourself to one OS? Run both.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In what MATERIAL way?How does that even address my point?You're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
Not really, because it applies to prefab Winblows systems, too, they >>>>> cheap out on certain parts to keep the prices competitive, that's why >>>>> building my own was such a great investment, including of time itself. >>>>
Because value is a quotient of money spent for material gained - my
Gigabyte motherboard makes my system higher end than virtually any
prefab PC system. Apple, though, is probably equally good, just more
costly.
What is a metric...
...that actually matters to your use case...
...that makes your "Gigabyte motherboard" "higher end" than a system you >>could have just bought?
Remember, you're the one who always concedes that a small difference >>actually doesn't matter to you.
But durability does matter - I had my previous computer, with an
Intel-brand motherboard, for 10 years. It was a fairly high-end
system initially, ran the earlier forms of Windows 10 very well, and
was still running Linux beautifully when replaced. I'd like to think
this machine could last as long, or even longer.
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
[Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is] easily done by running
within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to buy Apple
to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of operating
systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 17:19, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:It is absolutely credible...
On 2024-12-20 16:50, will wrote:
Why limit yourself to one OS? Run both.
Or as you could do on a Mac: run all three!
The Mac running Winblows is not that credible, possible to boot it
sure, but it's a small side thing.
...or at least it was absolutely credible...
...until Apple started producing better processors and using them.
:-)
I destroyed the MacBook with Windows 7 along with my friend, it was a
fun thing to try out OS X and see Windows on Apple hardware.
On 2024-12-16 12:58, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:The i5 processor isn't consistent with your claim of "fairly high-end".
In what MATERIAL way?You're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
Not really, because it applies to prefab Winblows systems, too, they >>>>>> cheap out on certain parts to keep the prices competitive, that's why >>>>>> building my own was such a great investment, including of time
itself.
How does that even address my point?
Because value is a quotient of money spent for material gained - my
Gigabyte motherboard makes my system higher end than virtually any
prefab PC system. Apple, though, is probably equally good, just more
costly.
What is a metric...
...that actually matters to your use case...
...that makes your "Gigabyte motherboard" "higher end" than a system you >>> could have just bought?
Remember, you're the one who always concedes that a small difference
actually doesn't matter to you.
But durability does matter - I had my previous computer, with an
Intel-brand motherboard, for 10 years. It was a fairly high-end
system initially, ran the earlier forms of Windows 10 very well, and
was still running Linux beautifully when replaced. I'd like to think
this machine could last as long, or even longer.
On 2024-12-15 12:48, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/15/24 12:24 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-15 02:56, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
People who value things differently than you do are not automatically >>>>>> stupid.
I realize that concept is a little too advanced for your adolescent >>>>>> thinking, but it's still true.
It's not adolescent thinking, it's simple math. And I'm not calling >>>>> you "stupid", I'm pointing out that you can always do far better than >>>>> Apple, on value, if you build [a computer] yourself.
And if you don't value you your own time.
Yu're conflating "value" with "monetary cost" alone.
Ah, its the lame old classic bit of "my labor is always frrrrreee!".
Well, as I've said before: prove that your labor is worth so little to
you by coming over and mowing my lawn.
Of course, at this time of year, their task will be raking up leaves ..
or if it snows later, to get out there in the cold and shovel: I'm
flexible for what menial labor task they'll prove themselves with <g>.
Labor and the time it takes is just part of getting a good PC, you
have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not
worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
machine. But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone
to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time? It's
not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use out
of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth
every minute I put in, assembling it.
But you don't pay "a fortune", Joel.
You pay a small premium.
And your computer is "like new"...
...after you've added a video card to address a failing in your research
when designing your system...
...and replacing the OS with Linux because your system was so poorly
spec'ed it couldn't keep running Windows well.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Labor and the time it takes [assembling computer hardware] is just part
of getting a good PC, you
have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not
worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
machine. But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone
to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time? It's
not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use out
of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth
every minute I put in, assembling it.
But you don't pay "a fortune", Joel.
You pay a small premium.
And your computer is "like new"...
...after you've added a video card to address a failing in your research >>when designing your system...
...and replacing the OS with Linux because your system was so poorly >>spec'ed it couldn't keep running Windows well.
That's ridiculous. It's normal to add parts as needed,
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Labor and the time it takes [assembling computer hardware] is just
part of getting a good PC, you
have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not
worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
machine. But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone >>>>> to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time? It's >>>>> not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use out >>>>> of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth >>>>> every minute I put in, assembling it.
But you don't pay "a fortune", Joel.
You pay a small premium.
And your computer is "like new"...
...after you've added a video card to address a failing in your
research
when designing your system...
...and replacing the OS with Linux because your system was so poorly
spec'ed it couldn't keep running Windows well.
That's ridiculous. It's normal to add parts as needed, and replace
bloating M$-crapware OSes with Linux. Why are you harping on it?
Because you're trying to convince us your design skills are so "elite", >>doofus.
In the space of just 30 months you:
had to add a video card because you didn't realize that you might end up >>with a 4K monitor (and you couldn't make a 4K monitor work on a GPU that
is supposed to support one);
had to abandon a $200 investment in Windows, because you either couldn't >>spec a system that would keep up with upgrades to Windows or you
couldn't figure out why your system was slowing down.
How is any of that true?
The 4K monitor worked with the Intel video,
just not well enough,
adding the video card is a minor concern,
I
always intended that if there were a need for one I'd be able to do
so.
The investment in Windows is nothing to me, I got a lot of use
out of it in 2 1/2 years, until Linux better supported my fresh
hardware. Big fucking deal.
On 2024-12-16 13:01, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Labor and the time it takes [assembling computer hardware] is just >>>>>> part of getting a good PC, you
have to buy it as parts, you have to design it. You could pay a
fortune for some other person to do the work for you, but it's not >>>>>> worth it, you'd be better off in that case with a decent prefab
machine. But what do you do with IKEA furniture? Do you pay someone >>>>>> to assemble it, or do you just bite the bullet and take the time?
It's
not so different with a PC, it's something you'll get a lot of use >>>>>> out
of. I've already had mine for 2 1/2 years, and it's like new. Worth >>>>>> every minute I put in, assembling it.
But you don't pay "a fortune", Joel.
You pay a small premium.
And your computer is "like new"...
...after you've added a video card to address a failing in your
research
when designing your system...
...and replacing the OS with Linux because your system was so poorly >>>>> spec'ed it couldn't keep running Windows well.
That's ridiculous. It's normal to add parts as needed, and replace
bloating M$-crapware OSes with Linux. Why are you harping on it?
Because you're trying to convince us your design skills are so "elite",
doofus.
In the space of just 30 months you:
had to add a video card because you didn't realize that you might end up >>> with a 4K monitor (and you couldn't make a 4K monitor work on a GPU that >>> is supposed to support one);
had to abandon a $200 investment in Windows, because you either couldn't >>> spec a system that would keep up with upgrades to Windows or you
couldn't figure out why your system was slowing down.
How is any of that true? The 4K monitor worked with the Intel video,
just not well enough, adding the video card is a minor concern, I
always intended that if there were a need for one I'd be able to do
so. The investment in Windows is nothing to me, I got a lot of use
out of it in 2 1/2 years, until Linux better supported my fresh
hardware. Big fucking deal.
You bought Windows, because (presumably) you thought it was the better choice...
...but then you spec'ed hardware that wasn't able to run it for more than
2.5 years.
And if "investment in Windows is nothing to [you]", then why do you make
such a big deal out of paying less for your system than an equivalent Mac (which you didn't; a Mac Mini would have done what you're doing and cost
you even less).
And if a monitor isn't working "well enough" and you have to spend
additional dollars to correct it, then you didn't do a very good job of designing your system in the first place.
You spent additional time on installing the new GPU.
You spent additional time on installing and configuring Linux.
Those are costs over and above what you'd have paid if you'd made your
design choices better in the first place.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-15 14:01, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Newegg has prefab systems that aren't the name brand, that's what I'd
go for if I wanted an OEM, but you can bet anything it won't have a
motherboard like the one I bought as a part.
How is yours materially better...
...I mean apart from "bragging rights"?
It's limitlessly expandable.
That's what the bragging rights derive
from.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-16 14:53, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/16/24 4:04 PM, Joel wrote:
Finder in Snow Leopard was a piece of junk.
I don't recall it being bad at all: it was speedier than its
predecessor
and used less resources. Of course, this complaint from Joel is from
an
OS introduced fifteen years ago (2009), so at the very least, he should >>>> be sure to compare it to its contemporary of Windows 7, not current
OSs.
Win7's Windows Explorer was far better.
IN
WHAT
SPECIFIC
WAY?
Context menus, etc.
--
Joel W. Crump
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 12/16/24 4:04 PM, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Newegg has prefab systems that aren't the name brand, that's what >>>>>>> I'd
go for if I wanted an OEM, but you can bet anything it won't have a >>>>>>> motherboard like the one I bought as a part.
How is yours materially better...
...I mean apart from "bragging rights"?
It's limitlessly expandable. That's what the bragging rights derive >>>>> from.
My MacBook Air is "limitlessly expandable" to, Sunshine.
<https://www.sonnettech.com/product/thunderbolt/pcie-card-expansion-systems.html>
Sounds easy to travel with.
Yes, it is far easier than to lug a desktop tower, along with its
separate display, separate keyboard, & separate mouse.
Not the point.
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message news:bfl5mjdo1glr63ushu3tjp935qln3gbc9g@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No. I'm not incorrect.this USB had been used to install Linux. Don't be
a fucking moron. It is actually possible that the Linux installer saw >>>>>> I already had Winblows, and was prompting me to wait a while to get >>>>>> rid of it, but in any event it was a black screen. There wasn't a >>>>>> problem with the disk, I'm not retarded.
That fact that it "had been" used doesn't mean it was the right media >>>>> to
install Linux on that particular PC, doofus.
Incorrect, "doofus", it was the normal 64-bit media, you're a fucking
moron.
You failing to be able to do something isn't proof it cannot be done.
I didn't "fail" to do anything,
Then you got linux to install and you lied about your inability to install it?
On 2024-12-25 01:44, Din004 wrote:
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
[Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is] easily done by running
within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to buy Apple
to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of operating
systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
Tell that to the people at JPL who use Macs...
On 2024-12-25, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:I've never said Linux can't work fine for some people.
On 2024-12-25 01:44, Din004 wrote:
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
[Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is] easily done by
running within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to
buy Apple to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of
operating systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
Tell that to the people at JPL who use Macs...
I've been using Linux since 1997 or maybe 1995, I forget, but for me
it works fine. It's not perfect and in the past I have had some
issues along the way but in say the past 5 years Linux has been rock
solid for me. I have friends and family members who use Apple
devices as well. Everything from engineering to finance to law
enforcement. And of course the same goes for Windows. Sadly I am the
only person amongst the above using Linux although others have
attempted to but it just didn't work out. One thing we all have in
common is that we researched the types of applications that we
needed to run and looked at the hardware platform as secondary.
Apple users are certainly not stupid and neither are Windows or
Linux users. Pick your poison and if it doesn't work out, move on.
Choice is a good thing.
On 2024-12-25 18:07, pothead wrote:
On 2024-12-25, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:I've never said Linux can't work fine for some people.
On 2024-12-25 01:44, Din004 wrote:
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
[Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is] easily done by
running within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to
buy Apple to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of
operating systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
Tell that to the people at JPL who use Macs...
I've been using Linux since 1997 or maybe 1995, I forget, but for me
it works fine. It's not perfect and in the past I have had some
issues along the way but in say the past 5 years Linux has been rock
solid for me. I have friends and family members who use Apple
devices as well. Everything from engineering to finance to law
enforcement. And of course the same goes for Windows. Sadly I am the
only person amongst the above using Linux although others have
attempted to but it just didn't work out. One thing we all have in
common is that we researched the types of applications that we
needed to run and looked at the hardware platform as secondary. Apple
users are certainly not stupid and neither are Windows or
Linux users. Pick your poison and if it doesn't work out, move on.
Choice is a good thing.
My argument is simply with people who claim that "Apple is still for dummies".
On 12/25/2024 11:07 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-25 18:07, pothead wrote:
On 2024-12-25, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-25 01:44, Din004 wrote:
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
[Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is] easily done by
running within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to
buy Apple to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of
operating systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
Tell that to the people at JPL who use Macs...
I've been using Linux since 1997 or maybe 1995, I forget, but for me
it works fine. It's not perfect and in the past I have had some
issues along the way but in say the past 5 years Linux has been rock
solid for me. I have friends and family members who use Apple
devices as well. Everything from engineering to finance to law
enforcement. And of course the same goes for Windows. Sadly I am the
only person amongst the above using Linux although others have
attempted to but it just didn't work out. One thing we all have in
common is that we researched the types of applications that we
needed to run and looked at the hardware platform as secondary. Apple
users are certainly not stupid and neither are Windows or
Linux users. Pick your poison and if it doesn't work out, move on.
Choice is a good thing.
I've never said Linux can't work fine for some people.
My argument is simply with people who claim that "Apple is still for
dummies".
YouTube and TikTok are full of Apple using morons who do their best to
lend credence to the claim.
On 12/25/2024 11:07 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-25 18:07, pothead wrote:
On 2024-12-25, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:I've never said Linux can't work fine for some people.
On 2024-12-25 01:44, Din004 wrote:
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
[Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is] easily done by
running within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to
buy Apple to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of
operating systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
Tell that to the people at JPL who use Macs...
I've been using Linux since 1997 or maybe 1995, I forget, but for me
it works fine. It's not perfect and in the past I have had some
issues along the way but in say the past 5 years Linux has been rock
solid for me. I have friends and family members who use Apple
devices as well. Everything from engineering to finance to law
enforcement. And of course the same goes for Windows. Sadly I am the
only person amongst the above using Linux although others have
attempted to but it just didn't work out. One thing we all have in
common is that we researched the types of applications that we
needed to run and looked at the hardware platform as secondary. Apple
users are certainly not stupid and neither are Windows or
Linux users. Pick your poison and if it doesn't work out, move on.
Choice is a good thing.
My argument is simply with people who claim that "Apple is still for
dummies".
YouTube and TikTok are full of Apple using morons who do their best to
lend credence to the claim.
Din004 <din004@oracle.com> wrote:
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some >>news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
[Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is] easily done by running
within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to buy Apple
to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of operating >>>>systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
I did stuff just as sophisticated with Snow Leopard as I've done with
Windows or Linux.
On 12/26/24 3:44 AM, alex wrote:
On 12/25/2024 11:07 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-25 18:07, pothead wrote:
On 2024-12-25, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-25 01:44, Din004 wrote:
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is easily done by
running within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to
buy Apple to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of
operating systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
Tell that to the people at JPL who use Macs...
I've been using Linux since 1997 or maybe 1995, I forget, but for me
it works fine. It's not perfect and in the past I have had some
issues along the way but in say the past 5 years Linux has been rock
solid for me. I have friends and family members who use Apple
devices as well. Everything from engineering to finance to law
enforcement. And of course the same goes for Windows. Sadly I am the
only person amongst the above using Linux although others have
attempted to but it just didn't work out. One thing we all have in
common is that we researched the types of applications that we
needed to run and looked at the hardware platform as secondary. Apple
users are certainly not stupid and neither are Windows or
Linux users. Pick your poison and if it doesn't work out, move on.
Choice is a good thing.
I've never said Linux can't work fine for some people.
My argument is simply with people who claim that "Apple is still for
dummies".
YouTube and TikTok are full of Apple using morons who do their best to
lend credence to the claim.
So? Is that somehow proof that there's not just as many (if not more)
using Windows/Android/etc?
In <vkjpqt$3155d$1@dont-email.me> -hh wrote:
On 12/26/24 3:44 AM, alex wrote:
On 12/25/2024 11:07 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-25 18:07, pothead wrote:
On 2024-12-25, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-25 01:44, Din004 wrote:
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is easily done by
running within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to
buy Apple to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of
operating systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
Tell that to the people at JPL who use Macs...
I've been using Linux since 1997 or maybe 1995, I forget, but for me >>>>> it works fine. It's not perfect and in the past I have had some
issues along the way but in say the past 5 years Linux has been rock >>>>> solid for me. I have friends and family members who use Apple
devices as well. Everything from engineering to finance to law
enforcement. And of course the same goes for Windows. Sadly I am the >>>>> only person amongst the above using Linux although others have
attempted to but it just didn't work out. One thing we all have in
common is that we researched the types of applications that we
needed to run and looked at the hardware platform as secondary. Apple >>>>> users are certainly not stupid and neither are Windows or
Linux users. Pick your poison and if it doesn't work out, move on.
Choice is a good thing.
I've never said Linux can't work fine for some people.
My argument is simply with people who claim that "Apple is still for
dummies".
YouTube and TikTok are full of Apple using morons who do their best to
lend credence to the claim.
So? Is that somehow proof that there's not just as many (if not more)
using Windows/Android/etc?
iPhone users are generally 5 second attention whores, that's all they can manage. Hope that helps.
On 12/26/2024 1:09 PM, Jon Ball wrote:
In <vkjpqt$3155d$1@dont-email.me> -hh wrote:
On 12/26/24 3:44 AM, alex wrote:
On 12/25/2024 11:07 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-25 18:07, pothead wrote:
On 2024-12-25, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-25 01:44, Din004 wrote:
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is easily done by
running within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to >>>>>>>>>>> buy Apple to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of >>>>>>>>>> operating systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
Tell that to the people at JPL who use Macs...
I've been using Linux since 1997 or maybe 1995, I forget, but for me >>>>>> it works fine. It's not perfect and in the past I have had some
issues along the way but in say the past 5 years Linux has been rock >>>>>> solid for me. I have friends and family members who use Apple
devices as well. Everything from engineering to finance to law
enforcement. And of course the same goes for Windows. Sadly I am the >>>>>> only person amongst the above using Linux although others have
attempted to but it just didn't work out. One thing we all have in >>>>>> common is that we researched the types of applications that we
needed to run and looked at the hardware platform as secondary. Apple >>>>>> users are certainly not stupid and neither are Windows or
Linux users. Pick your poison and if it doesn't work out, move on. >>>>>> Choice is a good thing.
I've never said Linux can't work fine for some people.
My argument is simply with people who claim that "Apple is still for >>>>> dummies".
YouTube and TikTok are full of Apple using morons who do their best to >>>> lend credence to the claim.
So? Is that somehow proof that there's not just as many (if not more)
using Windows/Android/etc?
iPhone users are generally 5 second attention whores, that's all they
can manage. Hope that helps.
There must be a lot of stupid people because every mobile provider is
giving iPhones away now. iPhones suck in general. The only decent
thing about them is the camera.
In <vkjpqt$3155d$1@dont-email.me> -hh wrote:
On 12/26/24 3:44 AM, alex wrote:
On 12/25/2024 11:07 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-25 18:07, pothead wrote:
On 2024-12-25, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-25 01:44, Din004 wrote:
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is easily done by
running within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to
buy Apple to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of
operating systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
Tell that to the people at JPL who use Macs...
I've been using Linux since 1997 or maybe 1995, I forget, but for me >>>>> it works fine. It's not perfect and in the past I have had some
issues along the way but in say the past 5 years Linux has been rock >>>>> solid for me. I have friends and family members who use Apple
devices as well. Everything from engineering to finance to law
enforcement. And of course the same goes for Windows. Sadly I am the >>>>> only person amongst the above using Linux although others have
attempted to but it just didn't work out. One thing we all have in
common is that we researched the types of applications that we
needed to run and looked at the hardware platform as secondary. Apple >>>>> users are certainly not stupid and neither are Windows or
Linux users. Pick your poison and if it doesn't work out, move on.
Choice is a good thing.
I've never said Linux can't work fine for some people.
My argument is simply with people who claim that "Apple is still for
dummies".
YouTube and TikTok are full of Apple using morons who do their best to
lend credence to the claim.
So? Is that somehow proof that there's not just as many (if not more)
using Windows/Android/etc?
iPhone users are generally 5 second attention whores, that's all they can manage. Hope that helps.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
What...
...IN SPECIFIC...
...is supposed to "suck" about iPhones?
I can't stand them. Apple is just inferior to Samsung.
On 2024-12-28 14:33, wasabi wrote:
On 12/26/2024 1:09 PM, Jon Ball wrote:
In <vkjpqt$3155d$1@dont-email.me> -hh wrote:
On 12/26/24 3:44 AM, alex wrote:
On 12/25/2024 11:07 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-25 18:07, pothead wrote:
On 2024-12-25, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-25 01:44, Din004 wrote:
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is easily done by >>>>>>>>>>>>> running within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to >>>>>>>>>>>> buy Apple to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of >>>>>>>>>>> operating systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
Tell that to the people at JPL who use Macs...
I've been using Linux since 1997 or maybe 1995, I forget, but for me >>>>>>> it works fine. It's not perfect and in the past I have had some
issues along the way but in say the past 5 years Linux has been rock >>>>>>> solid for me. I have friends and family members who use Apple >>>>>>> devices as well. Everything from engineering to finance to law
enforcement. And of course the same goes for Windows. Sadly I am the >>>>>>> only person amongst the above using Linux although others have
attempted to but it just didn't work out. One thing we all have in >>>>>>> common is that we researched the types of applications that we
needed to run and looked at the hardware platform as secondary.
Apple
users are certainly not stupid and neither are Windows or
Linux users. Pick your poison and if it doesn't work out, move on. >>>>>>> Choice is a good thing.
I've never said Linux can't work fine for some people.
My argument is simply with people who claim that "Apple is still for >>>>>> dummies".
YouTube and TikTok are full of Apple using morons who do their best to >>>>> lend credence to the claim.
So? Is that somehow proof that there's not just as many (if not more) >>>> using Windows/Android/etc?
iPhone users are generally 5 second attention whores, that's all they
can manage. Hope that helps.
There must be a lot of stupid people because every mobile provider is
giving iPhones away now. iPhones suck in general. The only decent
thing about them is the camera.
What...
...IN SPECIFIC...
...is supposed to "suck" about iPhones?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
What...
...IN SPECIFIC...
...is supposed to "suck" about iPhones?
I can't stand them. Apple is just inferior to Samsung.
You not "stand[ing] them" is not an objective standard.
In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your Samsung phone of
choice?
The user interface is impossible to work with, not intuitive.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
What...
...IN SPECIFIC...
...is supposed to "suck" about iPhones?
I can't stand them. Apple is just inferior to Samsung.
You not "stand[ing] them" is not an objective standard.
In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your Samsung phone of >>>> choice?
The user interface is impossible to work with, not intuitive.
In what...
...OBJECTIVE...
...way?
It's impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app
and have no route back to it, it doesn't multitask intuitively. Maybe right-brained people are just oriented toward this bullshit, and Apple happily sucks up their money, but normal people like the Galaxy S.
On 12/28/2024 2:36 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-28 14:33, wasabi wrote:
On 12/26/2024 1:09 PM, Jon Ball wrote:
In <vkjpqt$3155d$1@dont-email.me> -hh wrote:
On 12/26/24 3:44 AM, alex wrote:
On 12/25/2024 11:07 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-12-25 18:07, pothead wrote:
On 2024-12-25, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-25 01:44, Din004 wrote:
On 21 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:mnbemj9glpj2jqo07epuik3l5jpbkknrtt@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-20 20:31, Joel wrote:
-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
Running Windows 11 on a Silicon Mac is easily done by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> running within a VM
You could put it on bare metal on one, much easier not to >>>>>>>>>>>>> buy Apple to run M$, though.
Yes, but by running it in a VM, you have access to both of >>>>>>>>>>>> operating systems at the same time.
VMs have real use, I agree.
Apple is still for dummies.
Tell that to the people at JPL who use Macs...
I've been using Linux since 1997 or maybe 1995, I forget, but
for me
it works fine. It's not perfect and in the past I have had some >>>>>>>> issues along the way but in say the past 5 years Linux has been >>>>>>>> rock
solid for me. I have friends and family members who use Apple >>>>>>>> devices as well. Everything from engineering to finance to law >>>>>>>> enforcement. And of course the same goes for Windows. Sadly I am >>>>>>>> the
only person amongst the above using Linux although others have >>>>>>>> attempted to but it just didn't work out. One thing we all have in >>>>>>>> common is that we researched the types of applications that we >>>>>>>> needed to run and looked at the hardware platform as secondary. >>>>>>>> Apple
users are certainly not stupid and neither are Windows or
Linux users. Pick your poison and if it doesn't work out, move on. >>>>>>>> Choice is a good thing.
I've never said Linux can't work fine for some people.
My argument is simply with people who claim that "Apple is still for >>>>>>> dummies".
YouTube and TikTok are full of Apple using morons who do their
best to
lend credence to the claim.
So? Is that somehow proof that there's not just as many (if not more) >>>>> using Windows/Android/etc?
iPhone users are generally 5 second attention whores, that's all
they can manage. Hope that helps.
There must be a lot of stupid people because every mobile provider is
giving iPhones away now. iPhones suck in general. The only decent
thing about them is the camera.
What...
...IN SPECIFIC...
...is supposed to "suck" about iPhones?
Clunky disorganized interface,
crappy browser that won't work right with
some websites.
No easy way to tell how many apps or browser windows are
open.
I've seen people with 40+ things open complaining about their new
iPhone being slow.
Crappy IP stack that occasionally consumes every
single IP address available in a /24 until the WI-FI router is
restarted.
Plus Apple users are not smart. They tend to say yes toThat has NOTHING to do with what iOS does.
websites that want to send notifications.
On 2024-12-28 14:43, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
What...
...IN SPECIFIC...
...is supposed to "suck" about iPhones?
I can't stand them. Apple is just inferior to Samsung.
You not "stand[ing] them" is not an objective standard.
In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your Samsung phone of choice?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your Samsung phone of >>>>>> choice?
The user interface is impossible to work with, not intuitive.
In what...
...OBJECTIVE...
...way?
It's impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app
and have no route back to it, it doesn't multitask intuitively. Maybe
right-brained people are just oriented toward this bullshit, and Apple
happily sucks up their money, but normal people like the Galaxy S.
If you have no objective way in which "the user interface is impossible
to work with"...
...you have nothing.
But let's address what little you have.
In what way does iOS not "multitask intuitively"?
Read my previous post again.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your Samsung phone of
choice?
The user interface is impossible to work with, not intuitive.
In what...
...OBJECTIVE...
...way?
It's impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app >>>>> and have no route back to it, it doesn't multitask intuitively. Maybe >>>>> right-brained people are just oriented toward this bullshit, and Apple >>>>> happily sucks up their money, but normal people like the Galaxy S.
If you have no objective way in which "the user interface is impossible >>>> to work with"...
...you have nothing.
But let's address what little you have.
In what way does iOS not "multitask intuitively"?
Read my previous post again.
Quote the part that you THINK is salient?
Do I need to explain what "salient" means?
If I didn't know what it meant, I could look it up in the fucking
dictionary, teach'. To answer your question, I wrote: "It's
impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app and
have no route back to it".
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In what way does iOS not "multitask intuitively"?
Read my previous post again.
Quote the part that you THINK is salient?
Do I need to explain what "salient" means?
If I didn't know what it meant, I could look it up in the fucking
dictionary, teach'. To answer your question, I wrote: "It's
impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app and
have no route back to it".
Hmmmm...
iOS device with a home button:
Double-click the home button and flick to the right to get back to your
previous app.
iOS device without a home button:
Flick up from the bottom of the screen and then to the right...
...and then flick to your app.
How do you do it on Android?
:-)
I can't speak to every manufacturer of Android phones, but Samsung
gives one the ability to pull up a rotating dial of apps that are
running, easily navigating and multitasking.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
iOS device with a home button:
Double-click the home button and flick to the right to get back to your >>>> previous app.
iOS device without a home button:
Flick up from the bottom of the screen and then to the right...
...and then flick to your app.
How do you do it on Android?
:-)
I can't speak to every manufacturer of Android phones, but Samsung
gives one the ability to pull up a rotating dial of apps that are
running, easily navigating and multitasking.
So... ...no different except for your ignorance of how it works on iOS.
Got it.
If I have to *learn* how to use a fucking computer with a touchscreen,Are you seriously claiming you didn't have to "*learn*" how to use your
it tells me there's something *inferior* about its design - namely,
Apple forcing crapware on its victims.
On 2024-12-28 19:07, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your
Samsung phone of choice?
The user interface is impossible to work with, not intuitive.
In what...
...OBJECTIVE...
...way?
It's impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an
app and have no route back to it, it doesn't multitask
intuitively. Maybe right-brained people are just oriented toward
this bullshit, and Apple happily sucks up their money, but normal
people like the Galaxy S.
If you have no objective way in which "the user interface is
impossible to work with"...
...you have nothing.
But let's address what little you have.
In what way does iOS not "multitask intuitively"?
Read my previous post again.
Quote the part that you THINK is salient?
Do I need to explain what "salient" means?
If I didn't know what it meant, I could look it up in the fucking
dictionary, teach'. To answer your question, I wrote: "It's
impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app and
have no route back to it".
Hmmmm...
iOS device with a home button:
Double-click the home button and flick to the right to get back to
your previous app.
iOS device without a home button:
Flick up from the bottom of the screen and then to the right...
...and then flick to your app.
How do you do it on Android?
:-)
On 28 Dec 2024, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> posted some news:vkqgem$p84i$1@dont-email.me:
On 2024-12-28 19:07, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In what...In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your
Samsung phone of choice?
The user interface is impossible to work with, not intuitive. >>>>>>>>
...OBJECTIVE...
...way?
It's impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an >>>>>>> app and have no route back to it, it doesn't multitask
intuitively. Maybe right-brained people are just oriented toward >>>>>>> this bullshit, and Apple happily sucks up their money, but normal >>>>>>> people like the Galaxy S.
If you have no objective way in which "the user interface is
impossible to work with"...
...you have nothing.
But let's address what little you have.
In what way does iOS not "multitask intuitively"?
Read my previous post again.
Quote the part that you THINK is salient?
Do I need to explain what "salient" means?
If I didn't know what it meant, I could look it up in the fucking
dictionary, teach'. To answer your question, I wrote: "It's
impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app and
have no route back to it".
Hmmmm...
iOS device with a home button:
Double-click the home button and flick to the right to get back to
your previous app.
iOS device without a home button:
Flick up from the bottom of the screen and then to the right...
...and then flick to your app.
How do you do it on Android?
:-)
Android, tap the button on the lower left, scroll through the running apps left or right. Tap the app you want or tap close all.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen iPhone users frantically swiping through their devices in airports or asking for help from someone next to them.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Are you seriously claiming you didn't have to "*learn*" how to use youriOS device with a home button:
Double-click the home button and flick to the right to get back to your >>>>>> previous app.
iOS device without a home button:
Flick up from the bottom of the screen and then to the right...
...and then flick to your app.
How do you do it on Android?
:-)
I can't speak to every manufacturer of Android phones, but Samsung
gives one the ability to pull up a rotating dial of apps that are
running, easily navigating and multitasking.
So... ...no different except for your ignorance of how it works on iOS. >>>>
Got it.
If I have to *learn* how to use a fucking computer with a touchscreen,
it tells me there's something *inferior* about its design - namely,
Apple forcing crapware on its victims.
Samsung phone, doofus?
You just intuited how to switch between open applications?
I find that highly unlikely.
There's more than just the lame home button, is the thing.What makes the home button (which hasn't been on an iPhone since 2022)
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Tell me the steps you need to take to actually use this "rotating dial"
on your Samsung phone.
You press one of the three buttons on the bottom, and it pops up. Very smooth, very clever. Something Apple will never copy though becauseAnd that is so very different than swiping up from the bottom?
they're too proud of being quirky.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
And that is so very different than swiping up from the bottom?Tell me the steps you need to take to actually use this "rotating dial" >>>> on your Samsung phone.
You press one of the three buttons on the bottom, and it pops up. Very
smooth, very clever. Something Apple will never copy though because
they're too proud of being quirky.
I swipe up from the bottom of the screen; up then to the right. Very smooth. >>
The difference is what you KNOW, doofus.
Neither is more intuitive than the other.
Oh sure, fanboy, just act like your method is logical.Both methods are fine, doofus.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Both methods are fine, doofus.And that is so very different than swiping up from the bottom?Tell me the steps you need to take to actually use this "rotating dial" >>>>>> on your Samsung phone.
You press one of the three buttons on the bottom, and it pops up. Very >>>>> smooth, very clever. Something Apple will never copy though because >>>>> they're too proud of being quirky.
I swipe up from the bottom of the screen; up then to the right. Very smooth.
The difference is what you KNOW, doofus.
Neither is more intuitive than the other.
Oh sure, fanboy, just act like your method is logical.
Both need to be learned.
But you learn *intuitively* with Samsung, I get lost with Apple.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Both methods are fine, doofus.And that is so very different than swiping up from the bottom?Tell me the steps you need to take to actually use this "rotating dial"
on your Samsung phone.
You press one of the three buttons on the bottom, and it pops up. Very >>>>>>> smooth, very clever. Something Apple will never copy though because >>>>>>> they're too proud of being quirky.
I swipe up from the bottom of the screen; up then to the right. Very smooth.
The difference is what you KNOW, doofus.
Neither is more intuitive than the other.
Oh sure, fanboy, just act like your method is logical.
Both need to be learned.
But you learn *intuitively* with Samsung, I get lost with Apple.
YOU get lost, loser.
That proves nothing.
It proves that people with real intellect don't have time for Apple's
quirks.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Both methods are fine, doofus.And that is so very different than swiping up from the bottom?Tell me the steps you need to take to actually use this "rotating dial"
on your Samsung phone.
You press one of the three buttons on the bottom, and it pops up. Very >>>>>>> smooth, very clever. Something Apple will never copy though because >>>>>>> they're too proud of being quirky.
I swipe up from the bottom of the screen; up then to the right. Very smooth.
The difference is what you KNOW, doofus.
Neither is more intuitive than the other.
Oh sure, fanboy, just act like your method is logical.
Both need to be learned.
But you learn *intuitively* with Samsung, I get lost with Apple.
YOU get lost, loser.
That proves nothing.
It proves that people with real intellect don't have time for Apple's
quirks.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Both methods are fine, doofus.And that is so very different than swiping up from the bottom? >>>>>>>>Tell me the steps you need to take to actually use this "rotating dial"
on your Samsung phone.
You press one of the three buttons on the bottom, and it pops up. Very
smooth, very clever. Something Apple will never copy though because >>>>>>>>> they're too proud of being quirky.
I swipe up from the bottom of the screen; up then to the right. Very smooth.
The difference is what you KNOW, doofus.
Neither is more intuitive than the other.
Oh sure, fanboy, just act like your method is logical.
Both need to be learned.
But you learn *intuitively* with Samsung, I get lost with Apple.
YOU get lost, loser.
That proves nothing.
It proves that people with real intellect don't have time for Apple's
quirks.
So tell me this:
Why has Android's default interface switch to gesture-based...
...since Android 9 in 2018...
...which followed Apple's lead with the iPhone X released in 2017?
I don't know anything about Android phones other than Samsung, I go by
them because they're the flagship Android manufacturer, the head-to-
head competitor with Apple. I'm in love with their motif.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Both methods are fine, doofus.And that is so very different than swiping up from the bottom? >>>>>>>>Tell me the steps you need to take to actually use this "rotating dial"
on your Samsung phone.
You press one of the three buttons on the bottom, and it pops up. Very
smooth, very clever. Something Apple will never copy though because >>>>>>>>> they're too proud of being quirky.
I swipe up from the bottom of the screen; up then to the right. Very smooth.
The difference is what you KNOW, doofus.
Neither is more intuitive than the other.
Oh sure, fanboy, just act like your method is logical.
Both need to be learned.
But you learn *intuitively* with Samsung, I get lost with Apple.
YOU get lost, loser.
That proves nothing.
It proves that people with real intellect don't have time for Apple's
quirks.
LOLOOOLOLOLOLOLOL!
The more you reply, the more I'm convinced that--at best--you're just
out of puberty.
I'll be 48 in March.
Something isn't "quirky" in general just because you can't figure it out.
The Samsung/Android method works fine, but it does mean that the buttons
take up screen real estate at all times.
The iPhone's swipe method works fine too, but it does so while taking
LESS real estate.
You had to learn which button to push, I had to learn what gesture to make. >>
Neither is more "quirky".
No, you're wrong, it is quirky, it's retarded even. Apple isAnd yet beyond "it doesn't work the way I think it should work", you
goofware.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
you learn *intuitively* with Samsung, I get lost with Apple.
YOU get lost, loser.
That proves nothing.
It proves that people with real intellect don't have time for Apple's >>>>> quirks.
LOLOOOLOLOLOLOLOL!
The more you reply, the more I'm convinced that--at best--you're just
out of puberty.
I'll be 48 in March.
Then you're a case of arrested development.
Far from it. But I certainly don't have an ageist perspective, where
I'm so much better than the kiddies today, every generation does that garbage, acting like they were the final stage of evolution and those
who came later are just pitiful creatures, as they say, "OK, boomer".
And yet beyond "it doesn't work the way I think it should work", youSomething isn't "quirky" in general just because you can't figure it out. >>>>
The Samsung/Android method works fine, but it does mean that the buttons >>>> take up screen real estate at all times.
The iPhone's swipe method works fine too, but it does so while taking
LESS real estate.
You had to learn which button to push, I had to learn what gesture to make.
Neither is more "quirky".
No, you're wrong, it is quirky, it's retarded even. Apple is
goofware.
can't articulate a single way it's "quirky".
You articulated it, what's this swiping crap? Why do I need to learnI can see why you want to avoid learning.
this quirky maneuver, to use their stupid phone? Fuck Apple.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
So you admit ignorance of it...I don't know anything about Android phones other than Samsung, I go by >>>>> them because they're the flagship Android manufacturer, the head-to- >>>>> head competitor with Apple. I'm in love with their motif.
You are ignorant about so much it would seem...
The more ignorant I am of Apple crapware, the better.
...but still feel you can pronounce on how well it works.
Do you see the disconnect there?
What little I saw of the iPhone was even worse than the MacBook IWhat you actually mean is "Wah! This isn't exactly the same was what I'm
owned.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Where "logically" is defined as: "What I know already"What you actually mean is "Wah! This isn't exactly the same was what I'm >>>> used to and I don't want to learn new things!"So you admit ignorance of it...I don't know anything about Android phones other than Samsung, I go by
them because they're the flagship Android manufacturer, the head-to- >>>>>>>>> head competitor with Apple. I'm in love with their motif.
You are ignorant about so much it would seem...
The more ignorant I am of Apple crapware, the better.
...but still feel you can pronounce on how well it works.
Do you see the disconnect there?
What little I saw of the iPhone was even worse than the MacBook I
owned.
Not really, no, I just want things to be designed logically.
Incorrect, it's defined as what *normal* people find intuitive, as
opposed to Apple finding some niche among right-brained weirdoes.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
What you actually mean is "Wah! This isn't exactly the same was what I'mSo you admit ignorance of it...I don't know anything about Android phones other than Samsung, I go by >>>>>>> them because they're the flagship Android manufacturer, the head-to- >>>>>>> head competitor with Apple. I'm in love with their motif.
You are ignorant about so much it would seem...
The more ignorant I am of Apple crapware, the better.
...but still feel you can pronounce on how well it works.
Do you see the disconnect there?
What little I saw of the iPhone was even worse than the MacBook I
owned.
used to and I don't want to learn new things!"
Not really, no, I just want things to be designed logically.Where "logically" is defined as: "What I know already"
I'll be 48 in March.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
What...
...IN SPECIFIC...
...is supposed to "suck" about iPhones?
I can't stand them. Apple is just inferior to Samsung.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
What...
...IN SPECIFIC...
...is supposed to "suck" about iPhones?
I can't stand them. Apple is just inferior to Samsung.
You not "stand[ing] them" is not an objective standard.
In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your Samsung phone of >>choice?
The user interface is impossible to work with, not intuitive.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your Samsung phone >>>>>> of
choice?
The user interface is impossible to work with, not intuitive.
In what...
...OBJECTIVE...
...way?
It's impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app
and have no route back to it, it doesn't multitask intuitively. Maybe
right-brained people are just oriented toward this bullshit, and Apple
happily sucks up their money, but normal people like the Galaxy S.
If you have no objective way in which "the user interface is impossible
to work with"...
...you have nothing.
But let's address what little you have.
In what way does iOS not "multitask intuitively"?
Read my previous post again.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your Samsung >>>>>>>> phone of
choice?
The user interface is impossible to work with, not intuitive.
In what...
...OBJECTIVE...
...way?
It's impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app >>>>> and have no route back to it, it doesn't multitask intuitively. Maybe >>>>> right-brained people are just oriented toward this bullshit, and Apple >>>>> happily sucks up their money, but normal people like the Galaxy S.
If you have no objective way in which "the user interface is impossible >>>> to work with"...
...you have nothing.
But let's address what little you have.
In what way does iOS not "multitask intuitively"?
Read my previous post again.
Quote the part that you THINK is salient?
Do I need to explain what "salient" means?
If I didn't know what it meant, I could look it up in the fucking
dictionary, teach'.
To answer your question, I wrote: "It's
impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app and
have no route back to it".
On 2024-12-28 19:07, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your Samsung >>>>>>>>> phone of
choice?
The user interface is impossible to work with, not intuitive.
In what...
...OBJECTIVE...
...way?
It's impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app >>>>>> and have no route back to it, it doesn't multitask intuitively.
Maybe
right-brained people are just oriented toward this bullshit, and
Apple
happily sucks up their money, but normal people like the Galaxy S.
If you have no objective way in which "the user interface is
impossible
to work with"...
...you have nothing.
But let's address what little you have.
In what way does iOS not "multitask intuitively"?
Read my previous post again.
Quote the part that you THINK is salient?
Do I need to explain what "salient" means?
If I didn't know what it meant, I could look it up in the fucking
dictionary, teach'. To answer your question, I wrote: "It's
impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app and
have no route back to it".
Hmmmm...
iOS device with a home button:
Double-click the home button and flick to the right to get back to your previous app.
iOS device without a home button:
Flick up from the bottom of the screen and then to the right...
...and then flick to your app.
How do you do it on Android?
:-)
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
iOS device with a home button:
Double-click the home button and flick to the right to get back to your >>>> previous app.
iOS device without a home button:
Flick up from the bottom of the screen and then to the right...
...and then flick to your app.
How do you do it on Android?
:-)
I can't speak to every manufacturer of Android phones, but Samsung
gives one the ability to pull up a rotating dial of apps that are
running, easily navigating and multitasking.
So... ...no different except for your ignorance of how it works on iOS.
Got it.
If I have to *learn* how to use a fucking computer with a touchscreen,
it tells me there's something *inferior* about its design - namely,
Apple forcing crapware on its victims.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Tell me the steps you need to take to actually use this "rotating dial"
on your Samsung phone.
You press one of the three buttons on the bottom, and it pops up.
Very
smooth, very clever. Something Apple will never copy though because
they're too proud of being quirky.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Both methods are fine, doofus.And that is so very different than swiping up from the bottom?Tell me the steps you need to take to actually use this "rotating
dial"
on your Samsung phone.
You press one of the three buttons on the bottom, and it pops up. Very >>>>> smooth, very clever. Something Apple will never copy though because >>>>> they're too proud of being quirky.
I swipe up from the bottom of the screen; up then to the right. Very
smooth.
The difference is what you KNOW, doofus.
Neither is more intuitive than the other.
Oh sure, fanboy, just act like your method is logical.
Both need to be learned.
But you learn *intuitively* with Samsung, I get lost with Apple.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Are you seriously claiming you didn't have to "*learn*" how to use your >>Samsung phone, doofus?iOS device with a home button:
Double-click the home button and flick to the right to get back to >>>>>> your
previous app.
iOS device without a home button:
Flick up from the bottom of the screen and then to the right...
...and then flick to your app.
How do you do it on Android?
:-)
I can't speak to every manufacturer of Android phones, but Samsung
gives one the ability to pull up a rotating dial of apps that are
running, easily navigating and multitasking.
So... ...no different except for your ignorance of how it works on iOS. >>>>
Got it.
If I have to *learn* how to use a fucking computer with a touchscreen,
it tells me there's something *inferior* about its design - namely,
Apple forcing crapware on its victims.
You just intuited how to switch between open applications?
I find that highly unlikely.
There's more than just the lame home button, is the thing.
On 2024-12-29 11:47, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Both methods are fine, doofus.And that is so very different than swiping up from the bottom?Tell me the steps you need to take to actually use this "rotating >>>>>>> dial"
on your Samsung phone.
You press one of the three buttons on the bottom, and it pops up.
Very
smooth, very clever. Something Apple will never copy though because >>>>>> they're too proud of being quirky.
I swipe up from the bottom of the screen; up then to the right. Very >>>>> smooth.
The difference is what you KNOW, doofus.
Neither is more intuitive than the other.
Oh sure, fanboy, just act like your method is logical.
Both need to be learned.
But you learn *intuitively* with Samsung, I get lost with Apple.
YOU get lost, loser.
That proves nothing.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Both methods are fine, doofus.And that is so very different than swiping up from the bottom?Tell me the steps you need to take to actually use this "rotating >>>>>>>> dial"
on your Samsung phone.
You press one of the three buttons on the bottom, and it pops up. >>>>>>> Very
smooth, very clever. Something Apple will never copy though because >>>>>>> they're too proud of being quirky.
I swipe up from the bottom of the screen; up then to the right. Very >>>>>> smooth.
The difference is what you KNOW, doofus.
Neither is more intuitive than the other.
Oh sure, fanboy, just act like your method is logical.
Both need to be learned.
But you learn *intuitively* with Samsung, I get lost with Apple.
YOU get lost, loser.
That proves nothing.
It proves that people with real intellect don't have time for Apple's
quirks.
On 2024-12-29 12:22, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Both methods are fine, doofus.And that is so very different than swiping up from the bottom?Tell me the steps you need to take to actually use this "rotating >>>>>>>>> dial"
on your Samsung phone.
You press one of the three buttons on the bottom, and it pops up. >>>>>>>> Very
smooth, very clever. Something Apple will never copy though
because
they're too proud of being quirky.
I swipe up from the bottom of the screen; up then to the right. Very >>>>>>> smooth.
The difference is what you KNOW, doofus.
Neither is more intuitive than the other.
Oh sure, fanboy, just act like your method is logical.
Both need to be learned.
But you learn *intuitively* with Samsung, I get lost with Apple.
YOU get lost, loser.
That proves nothing.
It proves that people with real intellect don't have time for Apple's
quirks.
LOLOOOLOLOLOLOLOL!
The more you reply, the more I'm convinced that--at best--you're just out
of puberty.
Something isn't "quirky" in general just because you can't figure it out.
The Samsung/Android method works fine, but it does mean that the buttons
take up screen real estate at all times.
The iPhone's swipe method works fine too, but it does so while taking LESS real estate.
You had to learn which button to push, I had to learn what gesture to
make.
Neither is more "quirky".
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
people with real intellect don't have time for Apple's
quirks.
So tell me this:
Why has Android's default interface switch to gesture-based...
...since Android 9 in 2018...
...which followed Apple's lead with the iPhone X released in 2017?
I don't know anything about Android phones other than Samsung, I go by
them because they're the flagship Android manufacturer, the head-to-
head competitor with Apple. I'm in love with their motif.
You are ignorant about so much it would seem...
The more ignorant I am of Apple crapware, the better.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Both methods are fine, doofus.And that is so very different than swiping up from the bottom? >>>>>>>>Tell me the steps you need to take to actually use this "rotating >>>>>>>>>> dial"
on your Samsung phone.
You press one of the three buttons on the bottom, and it pops up. >>>>>>>>> Very
smooth, very clever. Something Apple will never copy though >>>>>>>>> because
they're too proud of being quirky.
I swipe up from the bottom of the screen; up then to the right. >>>>>>>> Very smooth.
The difference is what you KNOW, doofus.
Neither is more intuitive than the other.
Oh sure, fanboy, just act like your method is logical.
Both need to be learned.
But you learn *intuitively* with Samsung, I get lost with Apple.
YOU get lost, loser.
That proves nothing.
It proves that people with real intellect don't have time for Apple's
quirks.
So tell me this:
Why has Android's default interface switch to gesture-based...
...since Android 9 in 2018...
...which followed Apple's lead with the iPhone X released in 2017?
I don't know anything about Android phones other than Samsung, I go by
them because they're the flagship Android manufacturer, the head-to-
head competitor with Apple. I'm in love with their motif.
On 2024-12-29 17:00, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:So you admit ignorance of it...
people with real intellect don't have time for Apple's
quirks.
So tell me this:
Why has Android's default interface switch to gesture-based...
...since Android 9 in 2018...
...which followed Apple's lead with the iPhone X released in 2017?
I don't know anything about Android phones other than Samsung, I go by >>>> them because they're the flagship Android manufacturer, the head-to-
head competitor with Apple. I'm in love with their motif.
You are ignorant about so much it would seem...
The more ignorant I am of Apple crapware, the better.
...but still feel you can pronounce on how well it works.
Do you see the disconnect there?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Where "logically" is defined as: "What I know already"What you actually mean is "Wah! This isn't exactly the same was whatSo you admit ignorance of it...I don't know anything about Android phones other than Samsung, I >>>>>>>>> go by
them because they're the flagship Android manufacturer, the
head-to-
head competitor with Apple. I'm in love with their motif.
You are ignorant about so much it would seem...
The more ignorant I am of Apple crapware, the better.
...but still feel you can pronounce on how well it works.
Do you see the disconnect there?
What little I saw of the iPhone was even worse than the MacBook I
owned.
I'm
used to and I don't want to learn new things!"
Not really, no, I just want things to be designed logically.
Incorrect, it's defined as what *normal* people find intuitive, as
opposed to Apple finding some niche among right-brained weirdoes.
On 2024-12-29, Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
I have both a Samsung Android and a recent iPhone and to switch between applications
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jg91nj1llt5hmg8frms2iverbedogbi696@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your Samsung phone >>>>>>>> of
choice?
The user interface is impossible to work with, not intuitive.
In what...
...OBJECTIVE...
...way?
It's impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app >>>>> and have no route back to it, it doesn't multitask intuitively. Maybe >>>>> right-brained people are just oriented toward this bullshit, and Apple >>>>> happily sucks up their money, but normal people like the Galaxy S.
If you have no objective way in which "the user interface is impossible >>>> to work with"...
...you have nothing.
But let's address what little you have.
In what way does iOS not "multitask intuitively"?
Read my previous post again.
IOW, even Joel doesn't know what he's trying to say.. just that vague waving >> of the hands in the air while saying something like 'it sucks'.
it's a similar process.
iPhone- Swipe up and the running applications appear.
Swap left/right and tap on the application you want to switch to.
Android- Tap the 3 vertical bars on bottom left screen.
The applications that are running appear just like iPhone.
Swipe left/right and tap the application you want to switch to.
So both phones require you to know to either tap the 3 vertical bars or
swipe up but after that it's exactly the same.
Once you know this it's pretty much the same thing and certainly not
a game changer either way.
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message news:jg91nj1llt5hmg8frms2iverbedogbi696@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your Samsung phone >>>>>>> of
choice?
The user interface is impossible to work with, not intuitive.
In what...
...OBJECTIVE...
...way?
It's impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app
and have no route back to it, it doesn't multitask intuitively. Maybe >>>> right-brained people are just oriented toward this bullshit, and Apple >>>> happily sucks up their money, but normal people like the Galaxy S.
If you have no objective way in which "the user interface is impossible >>>to work with"...
...you have nothing.
But let's address what little you have.
In what way does iOS not "multitask intuitively"?
Read my previous post again.
IOW, even Joel doesn't know what he's trying to say.. just that vague waving of the hands in the air while saying something like 'it sucks'.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-30 10:23, pothead wrote:
On 2024-12-29, Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote: >>>> "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jg91nj1llt5hmg8frms2iverbedogbi696@4ax.com...I have both a Samsung Android and a recent iPhone and to switch between applications
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
If you have no objective way in which "the user interface is impossible >>>>>> to work with"...In what...In what OBJECTIVE criteria is an iPhone worse than your Samsung phone
of
choice?
The user interface is impossible to work with, not intuitive. >>>>>>>>
...OBJECTIVE...
...way?
It's impossible to keep track of what one is doing, you leave an app >>>>>>> and have no route back to it, it doesn't multitask intuitively. Maybe >>>>>>> right-brained people are just oriented toward this bullshit, and Apple >>>>>>> happily sucks up their money, but normal people like the Galaxy S. >>>>>>
...you have nothing.
But let's address what little you have.
In what way does iOS not "multitask intuitively"?
Read my previous post again.
IOW, even Joel doesn't know what he's trying to say.. just that vague waving
of the hands in the air while saying something like 'it sucks'.
it's a similar process.
iPhone- Swipe up and the running applications appear.
Swap left/right and tap on the application you want to switch to.
Android- Tap the 3 vertical bars on bottom left screen.
The applications that are running appear just like iPhone.
Swipe left/right and tap the application you want to switch to.
So both phones require you to know to either tap the 3 vertical bars or
swipe up but after that it's exactly the same.
Once you know this it's pretty much the same thing and certainly not
a game changer either way.
Exactly.
No user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be learned.
But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, like
iOS requires.
Joel wrote:
I'll be 48 in March.It's about time for you to find a job, you lazy mooch
on society.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be learned. >>>But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, like
iOS requires.
What makes a button with an unknown symbol on it more "intuitive", doofus?
You press it and get results, without having to learn or think tooAnd how did you learn which button to press?
much about it. Samsung is genius, Apple is mediocre.
Red Zone <redzone@trump.com> wrote:
On 30 Dec 2024, Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> posted some
news:1815e94fa891d6ec$29708$3091964$26dd2c6e@news.thecubenet.com:
Joel wrote:
I'll be 48 in March.It's about time for you to find a job, you lazy mooch
on society.
Hahahahaha!
My existence is invaluable for "society", so shut the fuck up, both of
you right-wing, moronic turds.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be learned. >>>But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, like
iOS requires.
What makes a button with an unknown symbol on it more "intuitive", doofus?
You press it and get results, without having to learn or think too
much about it. Samsung is genius, Apple is mediocre.
Red Zone <redzone@trump.com> wrote:
On 30 Dec 2024, Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> posted some
news:1815e94fa891d6ec$29708$3091964$26dd2c6e@news.thecubenet.com:
Joel wrote:
I'll be 48 in March.It's about time for you to find a job, you lazy mooch
on society.
Hahahahaha!
My existence is invaluable for "society", so shut the fuck up, both of
you right-wing, moronic turds.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-30 11:57, Joel wrote:
Red Zone <redzone@trump.com> wrote:
On 30 Dec 2024, Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> posted some
news:1815e94fa891d6ec$29708$3091964$26dd2c6e@news.thecubenet.com:
Joel wrote:
I'll be 48 in March.It's about time for you to find a job, you lazy mooch
on society.
Hahahahaha!
My existence is invaluable for "society", so shut the fuck up, both of
you right-wing, moronic turds.
Truly you are a legend in your own mind.
You aren't aware of my identity as the second coming of Christ?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
And how did you learn which button to press?You press it and get results, without having to learn or think tooNo user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be learned.
But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, like >>>>> iOS requires.
What makes a button with an unknown symbol on it more "intuitive", doofus? >>>
much about it. Samsung is genius, Apple is mediocre.
By doing it ...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You press it and get results, without having to learn or think tooNo user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be learned.
But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, like >>>>> iOS requires.
What makes a button with an unknown symbol on it more "intuitive", doofus? >>>
much about it. Samsung is genius, Apple is mediocre.
So that's your definition of "intuitive": just take a guess?
It's not a guess. There are only so many things the button could be.
Apple is trying to be fancier, and making a piece of crap in the
process.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
And how did you learn which button to press?No user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be learned.
But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, like >>>>>>> iOS requires.
What makes a button with an unknown symbol on it more "intuitive", doofus?
You press it and get results, without having to learn or think too
much about it. Samsung is genius, Apple is mediocre.
By doing it ...
So you do know that when you get a new iPhone, it gives you the thing
you need to know, right?
:-)
Instructions? I'd rather just be able to start using it, effectively.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be learned.
But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, like >>>>>>> iOS requires.
What makes a button with an unknown symbol on it more "intuitive", doofus?
You press it and get results, without having to learn or think too
much about it. Samsung is genius, Apple is mediocre.
So that's your definition of "intuitive": just take a guess?
It's not a guess. There are only so many things the button could be.
Apple is trying to be fancier, and making a piece of crap in the
process.
Dude, you're really reaching right now.
There's one--well one and half gestures you need to learn, and the
second part follows from the first.
You swipe straight up to unlock the phone and to return to the home screen. >>
Add "and to the right" or "and just pause for a moment" to that gesture
and you're in the app switcher.
It's easily findable.
To me, that sounds like you're making my case for me - why can't Apple
just make a phone with all the controls that would logically be
required? Is Samsung somehow inelegant for including the buttons? Is
it more elegant to not have them, and have this scheme of swiping?
WTF!
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
And how did you learn which button to press?No user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be learned.
But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, like >>>>>>>>> iOS requires.
What makes a button with an unknown symbol on it more "intuitive", doofus?
You press it and get results, without having to learn or think too >>>>>>> much about it. Samsung is genius, Apple is mediocre.
By doing it ...
So you do know that when you get a new iPhone, it gives you the thing
you need to know, right?
:-)
Instructions? I'd rather just be able to start using it, effectively.
You're lying if you pretend that you learned everything you know with no
instructions.
A smartphone shouldn't need instructions for the most basic UINonsense.
features.
On 2024-12-30, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-30 11:57, Joel wrote:
Red Zone <redzone@trump.com> wrote:
On 30 Dec 2024, Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> posted some >>>> news:1815e94fa891d6ec$29708$3091964$26dd2c6e@news.thecubenet.com:
Joel wrote:
I'll be 48 in March.It's about time for you to find a job, you lazy mooch
on society.
Hahahahaha!
My existence is invaluable for "society", so shut the fuck up, both of >>> you right-wing, moronic turds.
Truly you are a legend in your own mind.
You aren't aware of my identity as the second coming of Christ?
Impossible.
Snit claims he is the second coming of Christ.
How there be 2 of you lunatics?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
why can't Apple
just make a phone with all the controls that would logically be
required? Is Samsung somehow inelegant for including the buttons? Is
it more elegant to not have them, and have this scheme of swiping?
WTF!
Because the controls you use take up space ALL THE TIME.
And to use a modern smartphone is to use gestures for almost everything,
so why not for basic navigation.
Android has switched to Apple's way of doing things because it works.
If you like the iPhone, have at it, I do not.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be
learned.
But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, like
iOS requires.
What makes a button with an unknown symbol on it more "intuitive", doofus?
You press it and get results, without having to learn or think too
much about it. Samsung is genius, Apple is mediocre.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
And how did you learn which button to press?No user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be
learned.
But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, like >>>>> iOS requires.
What makes a button with an unknown symbol on it more "intuitive",
doofus?
You press it and get results, without having to learn or think too
much about it. Samsung is genius, Apple is mediocre.
By doing it ...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
And how did you learn which button to press?No user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be >>>>>>>> learned.
But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, >>>>>>> like
iOS requires.
What makes a button with an unknown symbol on it more "intuitive", >>>>>> doofus?
You press it and get results, without having to learn or think too
much about it. Samsung is genius, Apple is mediocre.
By doing it ...
So you do know that when you get a new iPhone, it gives you the thing
you need to know, right?
:-)
Instructions? I'd rather just be able to start using it, effectively.
On 2024-12-30 15:07, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
And how did you learn which button to press?No user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be >>>>>>>>> learned.
But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, >>>>>>>> like
iOS requires.
What makes a button with an unknown symbol on it more "intuitive", >>>>>>> doofus?
You press it and get results, without having to learn or think too >>>>>> much about it. Samsung is genius, Apple is mediocre.
By doing it ...
So you do know that when you get a new iPhone, it gives you the thing
you need to know, right?
:-)
Instructions? I'd rather just be able to start using it, effectively.
You're lying if you pretend that you learned everything you know with no instructions.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be >>>>>>>> learned.
But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, >>>>>>> like
iOS requires.
What makes a button with an unknown symbol on it more "intuitive", >>>>>> doofus?
You press it and get results, without having to learn or think too
much about it. Samsung is genius, Apple is mediocre.
So that's your definition of "intuitive": just take a guess?
It's not a guess. There are only so many things the button could be.
Apple is trying to be fancier, and making a piece of crap in the
process.
Dude, you're really reaching right now.
There's one--well one and half gestures you need to learn, and the
second part follows from the first.
You swipe straight up to unlock the phone and to return to the home
screen.
Add "and to the right" or "and just pause for a moment" to that gesture
and you're in the app switcher.
It's easily findable.
To me, that sounds like you're making my case for me - why can't Apple
just make a phone with all the controls that would logically be
required?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
why can't Apple
just make a phone with all the controls that would logically be
required? Is Samsung somehow inelegant for including the buttons? Is
it more elegant to not have them, and have this scheme of swiping?
WTF!
Because the controls you use take up space ALL THE TIME.
And to use a modern smartphone is to use gestures for almost everything,
so why not for basic navigation.
Android has switched to Apple's way of doing things because it works.
If you like the iPhone, have at it, I do not.
Red Zone <redzone@trump.com> wrote:
On 30 Dec 2024, Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> posted some >>news:1815e94fa891d6ec$29708$3091964$26dd2c6e@news.thecubenet.com:
Joel wrote:
I'll be 48 in March.It's about time for you to find a job, you lazy mooch
on society.
Hahahahaha!
My existence is unvaluable for "society", so shut the fuck up, both of
you right-wing, moronic turds.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2024-12-30 11:57, Joel wrote:
Red Zone <redzone@trump.com> wrote:
On 30 Dec 2024, Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> posted some
news:1815e94fa891d6ec$29708$3091964$26dd2c6e@news.thecubenet.com:
Joel wrote:
I'll be 48 in March.It's about time for you to find a job, you lazy mooch
on society.
Hahahahaha!
My existence is invaluable for "society", so shut the fuck up, both of
you right-wing, moronic turds.
Truly you are a legend in your own mind.
You aren't aware of my identity as the second coming of Christ?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No user interface is truly intuitive; but rather each needs to be learned. >>>But intuitive learning is superior to learning quirky maneuvers, like
iOS requires.
What makes a button with an unknown symbol on it more "intuitive", doofus?
You press it and get results, without having to learn or think too
much about it. Samsung is genius, Apple is mediocre.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
why can't Apple
just make a phone with all the controls that would logically be
required? Is Samsung somehow inelegant for including the buttons?
Is it more elegant to not have them, and have this scheme of
swiping? WTF!
Because the controls you use take up space ALL THE TIME.
And to use a modern smartphone is to use gestures for almost
everything, so why not for basic navigation.
Android has switched to Apple's way of doing things because it
works.
If you like the iPhone, have at it, I do not.
But without actually ever using it, you declare it all kinds of
bullshit pronouncements...
It might be bullshit to the extent that I'm biased against their
design, but it's not for no reason, it's what I think makes sense,
people's minds work differently, if people prefer Apple's motifs for
phones and computers, I don't begrudge them their right to use them,
but it's something I can't relate to.
On 31 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some news:q788nj57oare1scvi4j3udr21dk0ig9qpk@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
why can't Apple
just make a phone with all the controls that would logically be
required? Is Samsung somehow inelegant for including the buttons? >>>>>> Is it more elegant to not have them, and have this scheme of
swiping? WTF!
Because the controls you use take up space ALL THE TIME.
And to use a modern smartphone is to use gestures for almost
everything, so why not for basic navigation.
Android has switched to Apple's way of doing things because it
works.
If you like the iPhone, have at it, I do not.
But without actually ever using it, you declare it all kinds of
bullshit pronouncements...
It might be bullshit to the extent that I'm biased against their
design, but it's not for no reason, it's what I think makes sense,
people's minds work differently, if people prefer Apple's motifs for
phones and computers, I don't begrudge them their right to use them,
but it's something I can't relate to.
Apple is proof positive that a market for stupid people exists.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2025-01-01 18:02, Byrd wrote:
On 31 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:q788nj57oare1scvi4j3udr21dk0ig9qpk@4ax.com:
people's minds work differently, if people prefer Apple's motifs for
phones and computers, I don't begrudge them their right to use them,
but it's something I can't relate to.
Apple is proof positive that a market for stupid people exists.
Whatever makes you feel superior!
For what it could be worth, Alan, I do think you are an exception,
among Apple fans. You actually see it as Unix/BSD/Mach along with
On 01 Jan 2025, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some news:2qvbnj9pt42qal6ae9ii72gloeorlkigo8@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2025-01-01 18:02, Byrd wrote:
On 31 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:q788nj57oare1scvi4j3udr21dk0ig9qpk@4ax.com:
people's minds work differently, if people prefer Apple's motifs for >>>>> phones and computers, I don't begrudge them their right to use them, >>>>> but it's something I can't relate to.
Apple is proof positive that a market for stupid people exists.
Whatever makes you feel superior!
For what it could be worth, Alan, I do think you are an exception,
among Apple fans. You actually see it as Unix/BSD/Mach along with
macOS-limitations.
Fixed that for you.
Rudy Ball <rudyball@gmx.com> wrote:
On 01 Jan 2025, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:2qvbnj9pt42qal6ae9ii72gloeorlkigo8@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2025-01-01 18:02, Byrd wrote:
On 31 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:q788nj57oare1scvi4j3udr21dk0ig9qpk@4ax.com:
people's minds work differently, if people prefer Apple's motifs for >>>>>> phones and computers, I don't begrudge them their right to use them, >>>>>> but it's something I can't relate to.
Apple is proof positive that a market for stupid people exists.
Whatever makes you feel superior!
For what it could be worth, Alan, I do think you are an exception,
among Apple fans. You actually see it as Unix/BSD/Mach along with
macOS-limitations.
Fixed that for you.
Nah, it's not limitations. I can do anything with a Mac that would be necessary, it's just that I'd rather do it in style, Linux gives meYou really say the most idiotic things.
that, and Windows would on an i9 with 64 GB RAM.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2025-01-03 12:19, Joel wrote:
Rudy Ball <rudyball@gmx.com> wrote:You really say the most idiotic things.
macOS-limitations.
Fixed that for you.
Nah, it's not limitations. I can do anything with a Mac that would be
necessary, it's just that I'd rather do it in style, Linux gives me
that, and Windows would on an i9 with 64 GB RAM.
You'd need an i9 and 64GB of RAM to do what you've admitted you do?
The point is that Win11 is bloated, but what are you saying I'veNothing.
"admitted" doing that is so odd, pray tell?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2025-01-03 15:40, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:Nothing.
On 2025-01-03 12:19, Joel wrote:
Rudy Ball <rudyball@gmx.com> wrote:You really say the most idiotic things.
macOS-limitations.
Fixed that for you.
Nah, it's not limitations. I can do anything with a Mac that would be >>>>> necessary, it's just that I'd rather do it in style, Linux gives me
that, and Windows would on an i9 with 64 GB RAM.
You'd need an i9 and 64GB of RAM to do what you've admitted you do?
The point is that Win11 is bloated, but what are you saying I've
"admitted" doing that is so odd, pray tell?
It's just that none of it would require an i9 and 64GB of RAM even if
you were running Windows 11
"Require" is the wrong word, though, "be comfortable to use with" isYou are so full of shit.
more it. I could boot Win11 24H2, on this machine, I realize, but I wouldn't, because it'd be bloated trash.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You are so full of shit.Nothing.The point is that Win11 is bloated, but what are you saying I'veWindows would [perform as well as Linux] on an i9 with 64 GB RAM. >>>>>> You really say the most idiotic things.
You'd need an i9 and 64GB of RAM to do what you've admitted you do? >>>>>
"admitted" doing that is so odd, pray tell?
It's just that none of it would require an i9 and 64GB of RAM even if
you were running Windows 11
"Require" is the wrong word, though, "be comfortable to use with" is
more it. I could boot Win11 24H2, on this machine, I realize, but I
wouldn't, because it'd be bloated trash.
First of all for a computer if you need to "be comfortable to use with"... >>
...that's REQUIRE!
Second of all, it's complete an utter bullshit that you need that much
to "be comfortable to use with".
It's slightly exaggerated - but less than you think. Buy an iMac andYou really know NOTHING about how computers operate.
put Win11ARM on it on bare metal, and drive it hard for six months.
See if it survives.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You really know NOTHING about how computers operate.You are so full of shit.[Windows 11 24H2] would [not] require an i9 and 64GB of RAM even if >>>>>> you were running Windows 11
"Require" is the wrong word, though, "be comfortable to use with" is >>>>> more it. I could boot Win11 24H2, on this machine, I realize, but I >>>>> wouldn't, because it'd be bloated trash.
First of all for a computer if you need to "be comfortable to use with"... >>>>
...that's REQUIRE!
Second of all, it's complete an utter bullshit that you need that much >>>> to "be comfortable to use with".
It's slightly exaggerated - but less than you think. Buy an iMac and
put Win11ARM on it on bare metal, and drive it hard for six months.
See if it survives.
Nope, I'm telling you, I could bake one of those flimsy iMac devices,Bullshit.
even with Silicon, it's a different animal than IntelAMD to be sure,
but there would come a point when it just wasn't designed to handle
what Win11, and emulating all those x86 apps, would do.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I'm telling you, I could bake one of those flimsy iMac devices,Bullshit.
even with Silicon, it's a different animal than IntelAMD to be sure,
but there would come a point when it just wasn't designed to handle
what Win11, and emulating all those x86 apps, would do.
Your implication is that it would CHANGE after "six months".
But computers don't change, doofus.
They perish from heat.No. They don't.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No. They don't.I'm telling you, I could bake one of those flimsy iMac devices,Bullshit.
even with Silicon, it's a different animal than IntelAMD to be sure, >>>>> but there would come a point when it just wasn't designed to handle
what Win11, and emulating all those x86 apps, would do.
Your implication is that it would CHANGE after "six months".
But computers don't change, doofus.
They perish from heat.
Not if they're properly maintained.
And most certainly not in "six months".
Interesting that you suddenly decided to snip that part of what you
claimed, huh?
I stand by the claim. iMac's design would be crushed by heavy Win11 computing.You stand by something you cannot explain in rational terms.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I stand by the claim. iMac's design would be crushed by heavy Win11You stand by something you cannot explain in rational terms.
computing.
Got it.
I put Win7 on a MacBook and it killed it, physically.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I stand by the claim. iMac's design would be crushed by heavy Win11 >>>>> computing.You stand by something you cannot explain in rational terms.
Got it.
I put Win7 on a MacBook and it killed it, physically.
Explain how.
The design was unlike contemporary PC laptops.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I stand by the claim. iMac's design would be crushed by heavy Win11 >>>>>>> computing.You stand by something you cannot explain in rational terms.
Got it.
I put Win7 on a MacBook and it killed it, physically.
Explain how.
The design was unlike contemporary PC laptops.
That is you dodging an actual explanation.
It heats it via the CPU and/or video, disk access, overloads circuits,You might say it...
you might say.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
[Windows 11 in a new iMac] heats it via the CPU and/or video, disk access, overloads circuits,You might say it...
you might say.
...but that's because you don't have a clue how computers operate.
"Overloads circuits"? That's not a thing.
And CPUs have temperature sensors to automatically shut themselves down
if any of them report to high a temperature.
I know this because I kept my last MacBook for 7 years and at one point
had to open it up to renew the thermal paste that transferred heat from
the CPU to the heat sink.
It wasn't killed by anything ANY OS did.
It was temporarily disabled by the fact that something AGED.
It took 8 years for it to age that far, by the way.
Suggesting that an OS could cause something like that is like suggesting
that the ECU of a car plays a role in the brake pads needing to be replaced.
It'd be the same with a MacBook Air, they don't have the tolerance.
On 2025-01-03 12:19, Joel wrote:
Rudy Ball <rudyball@gmx.com> wrote:You really say the most idiotic things.
On 01 Jan 2025, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:2qvbnj9pt42qal6ae9ii72gloeorlkigo8@4ax.com:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2025-01-01 18:02, Byrd wrote:
On 31 Dec 2024, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> posted some
news:q788nj57oare1scvi4j3udr21dk0ig9qpk@4ax.com:
people's minds work differently, if people prefer Apple's motifs for >>>>>>> phones and computers, I don't begrudge them their right to use them, >>>>>>> but it's something I can't relate to.
Apple is proof positive that a market for stupid people exists.
Whatever makes you feel superior!
For what it could be worth, Alan, I do think you are an exception,
among Apple fans. You actually see it as Unix/BSD/Mach along with
macOS-limitations.
Fixed that for you.
Nah, it's not limitations. I can do anything with a Mac that would be
necessary, it's just that I'd rather do it in style, Linux gives me
that, and Windows would on an i9 with 64 GB RAM.
You'd need an i9 and 64GB of RAM to do what you've admitted you do?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2025-01-03 12:19, Joel wrote:
Rudy Ball <rudyball@gmx.com> wrote:You really say the most idiotic things.
macOS-limitations.
Fixed that for you.
Nah, it's not limitations. I can do anything with a Mac that would be
necessary, it's just that I'd rather do it in style, Linux gives me
that, and Windows would on an i9 with 64 GB RAM.
You'd need an i9 and 64GB of RAM to do what you've admitted you do?
The point is that Win11 is bloated, but what are you saying I've
"admitted" doing that is so odd, pray tell?
On 2025-01-03 15:40, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:Nothing.
On 2025-01-03 12:19, Joel wrote:
Rudy Ball <rudyball@gmx.com> wrote:You really say the most idiotic things.
macOS-limitations.
Fixed that for you.
Nah, it's not limitations. I can do anything with a Mac that would be >>>> necessary, it's just that I'd rather do it in style, Linux gives me
that, and Windows would on an i9 with 64 GB RAM.
You'd need an i9 and 64GB of RAM to do what you've admitted you do?
The point is that Win11 is bloated, but what are you saying I've
"admitted" doing that is so odd, pray tell?
It's just that none of it would require an i9 and 64GB of RAM even if you were running Windows 11
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
You are so full of shit.Nothing.The point is that Win11 is bloated, but what are you saying I'veWindows would [perform as well as Linux] on an i9 with 64 GB RAM. >>>>>> You really say the most idiotic things.
You'd need an i9 and 64GB of RAM to do what you've admitted you do? >>>>>
"admitted" doing that is so odd, pray tell?
It's just that none of it would require an i9 and 64GB of RAM even if
you were running Windows 11
"Require" is the wrong word, though, "be comfortable to use with" is
more it. I could boot Win11 24H2, on this machine, I realize, but I
wouldn't, because it'd be bloated trash.
First of all for a computer if you need to "be comfortable to use with"...
...that's REQUIRE!
Second of all, it's complete an utter bullshit that you need that much
to "be comfortable to use with".
It's slightly exaggerated - but less than you think. Buy an iMac and
put Win11ARM on it on bare metal, and drive it hard for six months.
See if it survives.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I stand by the claim. iMac's design would be crushed by heavy Win11 >>>>> computing.You stand by something you cannot explain in rational terms.
Got it.
I put Win7 on a MacBook and it killed it, physically.
Explain how.
The design was unlike contemporary PC laptops.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
No. They don't.I'm telling you, I could bake one of those flimsy iMac devices,Bullshit.
even with Silicon, it's a different animal than IntelAMD to be sure, >>>>> but there would come a point when it just wasn't designed to handle
what Win11, and emulating all those x86 apps, would do.
Your implication is that it would CHANGE after "six months".
But computers don't change, doofus.
They perish from heat.
Not if they're properly maintained.
And most certainly not in "six months".
Interesting that you suddenly decided to snip that part of what you >>claimed, huh?
I stand by the claim. iMac's design would be crushed by heavy Win11 computing.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I stand by the claim. iMac's design would be crushed by heavy Win11 >>>>>>> computing.You stand by something you cannot explain in rational terms.
Got it.
I put Win7 on a MacBook and it killed it, physically.
Explain how.
The design was unlike contemporary PC laptops.
That is you dodging an actual explanation.
It heats it via the CPU and/or video, disk access, overloads circuits,
you might say.
On 2025-01-05 19:50, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
[Windows 11 in a new iMac] heats it via the CPU and/or video, diskYou might say it...
access, overloads circuits,
you might say.
...but that's because you don't have a clue how computers operate.
"Overloads circuits"? That's not a thing.
And CPUs have temperature sensors to automatically shut themselves down
if any of them report to high a temperature.
I know this because I kept my last MacBook for 7 years and at one point
had to open it up to renew the thermal paste that transferred heat from
the CPU to the heat sink.
It wasn't killed by anything ANY OS did.
It was temporarily disabled by the fact that something AGED.
It took 8 years for it to age that far, by the way.
Suggesting that an OS could cause something like that is like suggesting >>> that the ECU of a car plays a role in the brake pads needing to be
replaced.
It'd be the same with a MacBook Air, they don't have the tolerance.
You are utterly clueless.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
[Windows 11 in a new iMac] heats it via the CPU and/or video, diskYou might say it...
access, overloads circuits,
you might say.
...but that's because you don't have a clue how computers operate.
"Overloads circuits"? That's not a thing.
And CPUs have temperature sensors to automatically shut themselves down
if any of them report to high a temperature.
I know this because I kept my last MacBook for 7 years and at one point
had to open it up to renew the thermal paste that transferred heat from
the CPU to the heat sink.
It wasn't killed by anything ANY OS did.
It was temporarily disabled by the fact that something AGED.
It took 8 years for it to age that far, by the way.
Suggesting that an OS could cause something like that is like suggesting >>that the ECU of a car plays a role in the brake pads needing to be >>replaced.
It'd be the same with a MacBook Air, they don't have the tolerance.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:vlg0uc$1epbu$2@dont-email.me...
On 2025-01-05 19:50, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
[Windows 11 in a new iMac] heats it via the CPU and/or video, diskYou might say it...
access, overloads circuits,
you might say.
...but that's because you don't have a clue how computers operate.
"Overloads circuits"? That's not a thing.
And CPUs have temperature sensors to automatically shut themselves down >>>> if any of them report to high a temperature.
I know this because I kept my last MacBook for 7 years and at one point >>>> had to open it up to renew the thermal paste that transferred heat from >>>> the CPU to the heat sink.
It wasn't killed by anything ANY OS did.
It was temporarily disabled by the fact that something AGED.
It took 8 years for it to age that far, by the way.
Suggesting that an OS could cause something like that is like
suggesting
that the ECU of a car plays a role in the brake pads needing to be
replaced.
It'd be the same with a MacBook Air, they don't have the tolerance.
You are utterly clueless.
Ding Ding Ding.. we have a WINNER..
One big prize from the top shelf for you.
On 1/6/2025 5:11 AM, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:vlg0uc$1epbu$2@dont-
email.me...
On 2025-01-05 19:50, Joel wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
[Windows 11 in a new iMac] heats it via the CPU and/or video, disk >>>>>> access, overloads circuits,You might say it...
you might say.
...but that's because you don't have a clue how computers operate.
"Overloads circuits"? That's not a thing.
And CPUs have temperature sensors to automatically shut themselves
down
if any of them report to high a temperature.
I know this because I kept my last MacBook for 7 years and at one
point
had to open it up to renew the thermal paste that transferred heat
from
the CPU to the heat sink.
It wasn't killed by anything ANY OS did.
It was temporarily disabled by the fact that something AGED.
It took 8 years for it to age that far, by the way.
Suggesting that an OS could cause something like that is like
suggesting
that the ECU of a car plays a role in the brake pads needing to be
replaced.
It'd be the same with a MacBook Air, they don't have the tolerance.
You are utterly clueless.
Ding Ding Ding.. we have a WINNER..
One big prize from the top shelf for you.
It would have to be a cinder block to penetrate. Notice he never acknowledged the Apple BGA problem. To be fair HP, not HPE, had the
same problem. HP admitted their issues and had RMAs for two years.
Apple stood there on a high horse and denied everything blaming users
for causing the soldering to fail.
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message news:bjkmnj9qchrsph8dboakkbj15gt7rgsd0b@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
[Windows 11 in a new iMac] heats it via the CPU and/or video, diskYou might say it...
access, overloads circuits,
you might say.
...but that's because you don't have a clue how computers operate.
"Overloads circuits"? That's not a thing.
And CPUs have temperature sensors to automatically shut themselves down
if any of them report to high a temperature.
I know this because I kept my last MacBook for 7 years and at one point
had to open it up to renew the thermal paste that transferred heat from
the CPU to the heat sink.
It wasn't killed by anything ANY OS did.
It was temporarily disabled by the fact that something AGED.
It took 8 years for it to age that far, by the way.
Suggesting that an OS could cause something like that is like suggesting >>> that the ECU of a car plays a role in the brake pads needing to be
replaced.
It'd be the same with a MacBook Air, they don't have the tolerance.
Based on what objective criteria?
On 1/6/2025 5:11 AM, Scout wrote:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bjkmnj9qchrsph8dboakkbj15gt7rgsd0b@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
[Windows 11 in a new iMac] heats it via the CPU and/or video, diskYou might say it...
access, overloads circuits,
you might say.
...but that's because you don't have a clue how computers operate.
"Overloads circuits"? That's not a thing.
And CPUs have temperature sensors to automatically shut themselves down >>>> if any of them report to high a temperature.
I know this because I kept my last MacBook for 7 years and at one point >>>> had to open it up to renew the thermal paste that transferred heat from >>>> the CPU to the heat sink.
It wasn't killed by anything ANY OS did.
It was temporarily disabled by the fact that something AGED.
It took 8 years for it to age that far, by the way.
Suggesting that an OS could cause something like that is like
suggesting
that the ECU of a car plays a role in the brake pads needing to be
replaced.
It'd be the same with a MacBook Air, they don't have the tolerance.
Based on what objective criteria?
Alan spilled anal lube on his and it got shortened.
On 1/6/2025 5:11 AM, Scout wrote:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bjkmnj9qchrsph8dboakkbj15gt7rgsd0b@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
[Windows 11 in a new iMac] heats it via the CPU and/or video, diskYou might say it...
access, overloads circuits,
you might say.
...but that's because you don't have a clue how computers operate.
"Overloads circuits"? That's not a thing.
And CPUs have temperature sensors to automatically shut themselves down >>>> if any of them report to high a temperature.
I know this because I kept my last MacBook for 7 years and at one point >>>> had to open it up to renew the thermal paste that transferred heat from >>>> the CPU to the heat sink.
It wasn't killed by anything ANY OS did.
It was temporarily disabled by the fact that something AGED.
It took 8 years for it to age that far, by the way.
Suggesting that an OS could cause something like that is like
suggesting
that the ECU of a car plays a role in the brake pads needing to be
replaced.
It'd be the same with a MacBook Air, they don't have the tolerance.
Based on what objective criteria?
Alan spilled anal lube on his and it got shortened.
On 2025-01-21 14:06, Rudy Johnson wrote:
On 1/6/2025 5:11 AM, Scout wrote:
"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bjkmnj9qchrsph8dboakkbj15gt7rgsd0b@4ax.com...
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
[Windows 11 in a new iMac] heats it via the CPU and/or video,You might say it...
disk access, overloads circuits,
you might say.
...but that's because you don't have a clue how computers operate.
"Overloads circuits"? That's not a thing.
And CPUs have temperature sensors to automatically shut themselves
down if any of them report to high a temperature.
I know this because I kept my last MacBook for 7 years and at one
point had to open it up to renew the thermal paste that
transferred heat from the CPU to the heat sink.
It wasn't killed by anything ANY OS did.
It was temporarily disabled by the fact that something AGED.
It took 8 years for it to age that far, by the way.
Suggesting that an OS could cause something like that is like
suggesting
that the ECU of a car plays a role in the brake pads needing to be
replaced.
It'd be the same with a MacBook Air, they don't have the tolerance.
Based on what objective criteria?
Alan spilled anal lube on his and it got shortened.
The amazing thing is that you think you're witty.
Yon Wane <"yonwane-lol!"@pac2.com> wrote:
I'll take Harris's manners of speech over Trump's rambling nonsense,
are you kidding? The fantasies he drooled out, at those rallies full
of uneducable crackers? What a farce.
Let's revisit what you think about those "fantasies" in six months. I'm >>personally looking forward to reality shock for indoctrinated libtards.
As for the uneducable crackers, are you referring to the illiterate genZ >>tranny 'tards, or the left-wing smart phone operators who can't even
pass 30, 60, or 90 day probationary hiring periods?
We aren't going to live in a dictatorship.
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in news:kk7ekj59h7j074o9a8jjovqb1oam4c9qc4@4ax.com:
Yon Wane <"yonwane-lol!"@pac2.com> wrote:
I'll take Harris's manners of speech over Trump's rambling nonsense,
are you kidding? The fantasies he drooled out, at those rallies full
of uneducable crackers? What a farce.
Let's revisit what you think about those "fantasies" in six months. I'm >>> personally looking forward to reality shock for indoctrinated libtards.
As for the uneducable crackers, are you referring to the illiterate genZ >>> tranny 'tards, or the left-wing smart phone operators who can't even
pass 30, 60, or 90 day probationary hiring periods?
We aren't going to live in a dictatorship.
Trump, November 6, 2024.
Ha! Ha! Ha! Talk about coming back to haunt you. Bend over Rover!
Yon Wane <"yonwane-lol!"@pac2.com> wrote:
I'll take Harris's manners of speech over Trump's rambling nonsense,
are you kidding? The fantasies he drooled out, at those rallies full
of uneducable crackers? What a farce.
Let's revisit what you think about those "fantasies" in six months. I'm >>personally looking forward to reality shock for indoctrinated libtards.
As for the uneducable crackers, are you referring to the illiterate genZ >>tranny 'tards, or the left-wing smart phone operators who can't even
pass 30, 60, or 90 day probationary hiring periods?
We aren't going to live in a dictatorship.
Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in news:kk7ekj59h7j074o9a8jjovqb1oam4c9qc4@4ax.com:
Yon Wane <"yonwane-lol!"@pac2.com> wrote:
I'll take Harris's manners of speech over Trump's rambling nonsense,
are you kidding? The fantasies he drooled out, at those rallies full
of uneducable crackers? What a farce.
Let's revisit what you think about those "fantasies" in six months. I'm >>>personally looking forward to reality shock for indoctrinated libtards.
As for the uneducable crackers, are you referring to the illiterate genZ >>>tranny 'tards, or the left-wing smart phone operators who can't even
pass 30, 60, or 90 day probationary hiring periods?
We aren't going to live in a dictatorship.
Trump, November 6, 2024.
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