On Thursday, April 29, 1993 at 4:36:23 AM UTC-7, Robert Kayman wrote:

Hello again,
About a week and one-half ago I posted a query looking for people feelings
on the inkjet family of printers. Specifically, a comparison between the Canon BJ200 (BubbleJet) and the Hewlett-Packard DeskJet 500. Many people asked me to post the summary/account of all the postings and e-mail I received. Below is my original query and the responses I received. I have
not deleted any part of the responses, only the headers and signatures, so you can extract what you find necessary. Some people asked me for an
unbiased account; however, the very nature of the question suggests favoritism and biased comments, you must extract the information you
believe unbiased and a fair representation of each printer. There are a
wide range of comments, each has its own value.
There was no clear winner, some like the BJ200 (especially its price/performance ratio), others preferred the durability and reliability
of the DeskJet (the original inkjet with proven drivers and a solid background). Two new inkjet printers have drawn some attention, a new
printer to be introduced by Hewlett-Packard later this year (around summertime), and an addition to the Epson product line (their first
inkjet). You will find that after the initial purchase, the costs of re-filling or replacing the ink cartridges are about the same (this largely depends on where you purchase the re-fills or replacements -- so shop
around first since this aspect will most likely dominate the cost of your printer). No one mentioned approx. how many sheets each ink cartridge will print, but I suspect they are roughly equal at about 1000 - 1500 sheets (laser printers will do 4000-5000 sheets per toner cartridge). Well,
that's a brief research summary of my personal research. ENJOY! =========================================================================== >Hello fellow 'netters.

I am asking for your collected wisdom to help me decide which printer I >should purchase, the Canon BJ200 (BubbleJet) vs. the HP DeskJet 500. I >thought, rather than trust the salesperson, I would benefit more from >relying on those who use these printers daily and use them to their fullest >potential. And, I figure all of you will know their benefits and pitfalls >better than any salesperson.

Now, I would greatly appreciate any information you could render on the 360 >dpi of the Canon BubbleJet vs. the Hewlett-Packard DeskJet 500 (300 dpi). >Which is faster? Is there a noticeable print quality difference, >particularly in graphics? Which will handle large documents better (75 >pages or more) -- any personal experience on either will be appreciated >here? Which works better under Windows 3.1 (any driver problems, etc)?
Cost of memory, font packages, toner cartridges, etc? Basically, your >personal experiences with either of these machines is highly desirable, >both good and bad.

Well I bought the BJ 200 about a month ago at the start of their $50 rebate program on that printer (it ends 5/31), and I bought it from Computer Discount Warehouse because their price of $325 couldn't be beat anywhere I looked, and I think it's a HOT printer. Just using regular copier paper produced fantastic results just in high quality mode. I compared the
output of a Micrografx Designer legal size drawing with 4pt type done on my BJ 200 with the same drawing printed on an HP Laserjet IID and I was amazed how well I could read the small print on the BJ 200. Printing speed was several seconds faster on the BJ 200 which is amazing considering that the
HP has 2.5M ram installed. I measured the time from when the printer first indicated it was receiving data (as I used print manager in Windows).
I showed the output to several people at work and one manager bought one immediately for his office, and two other engineers placed their orders
too. If you need CDW's phone number, it's 800-598-4239. Delivery to NY
was two days.
Good luck!

Craig Witkowski, CEN...@maccvm.corp.mot.com
Motorola Communications & Electronics Inc.
Glen Rock, NJ ===========================================================================
I own a Deskjet 500. Performance isn't spectacular under Windows using TrueType fonts but neither is the Canon from what I have seen. Quality for the HP is very much dependent on paper quality - on 'standard' photo-copy paper the characters have slightly 'frayed' edges but on better quality 'distinction' type paper things look better. For most applications I find copy paper fine - still better than dot-matrix. Comes with a Windows
driver, which seems to by-pass print manager, has a few
'intelli-fonts'which are HP scaleable fonts - probably faster than TrueType but haven't really tried them out. Can get RAM & FONT cartridges but unless the speed of TrueType is a problem I wouldn't bother. The RAM cartridges can't be used as buffer - soft fonts only.
For graphics, i.e. BMP images etc the HP can be put into a dither mode via the HP supplied Win driver. There a number of dither options such as 'scatter', 'pattern' etc. The manual gives recommendations depending on
the type of image being printed. Text is not so good in this mode. Problem arises when you have a document which contains both graphic and text. The range of tones for graphic images isn't brilliant but I think that is more
of a limitation with inkjet printers in general.

From what I have seen the Canon is similar in most respects.

However, a printer definitely worth looking at is the new inkjet from
Epson. This printer is faster, cheaper, and capable of producing
laser-like quality on normal copier paper. Can't remember the model #, LX
- something I think?
I purchased my HP days before the Epson was released here :-{. The introductory price on the Epson was the same as the HP here in New Zealand.

=========================================================================== About a month ago, I got a Canon BJ200. I absolutely LOVE it. It is incredibly fast, except for printing from PSPICE (I don't know if you ever
do stuff with that or not.) Most of the stuff I print is either from Microsoft Word for Windows or just plain text. The only problems I've had
are printing headers/footers (the printer freaked out), and printing on
cheap paper (lots of streaks). Normal copy paper works great with it, you
can only tell it's not laser-printed by holding it, oh, less than twelve inches from your face. (That is, if you're nearsighted, like me! :) ) The printer comes with its own driver for Windows 3.1!! I have no other complaints. The printer also can act just like some EPSON or another for those archaic software packages that haven't written a driver for it yet.
The teeny-weeny footprint is a real plus, too--AND, if you purchase it between now and May 31, you get a $50 rebate from Canon!! I bought mine
from a store called CompUSA, and the price now is $340. I have a friend
who has the HP you are looking at. It also prints very well, and everyone
has drivers for it, BUT it is VERY slow!
Hope I helped!
(360dpi sure looks great!)
Heather Stehman =========================================================================== In article <1993Apr19.1...@schbbs.mot.com>, CEN...@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Craig Witkowski) writes:

In message <1993Apr18....@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> kay...@csd-d-3.Stanford.EDU (Robert Kayman) writes:
Hello fellow 'netters.

I am asking for your collected wisdom to help me decide which printer I >>should purchase, the Canon BJ200 (BubbleJet) vs. the HP DeskJet 500. I >>thought, rather than trust the salesperson, I would benefit more from >>relying on those who use these printers daily and use them to their fullest >>potential. And, I figure all of you will know their benefits and pitfalls >>better than any salesperson.

(various questions deleted)

Well I bought the BJ 200 about a month ago at the start of their
$50 rebate program on that printer (it ends 5/31), and I bought it from Computer Discount Warehouse because their price of $325 couldn't be
beat anywhere I looked, and I think it's a HOT printer. Just using
regular copier paper produced fantastic results just in high quality
mode. I compared the output of a Micrografx Designer legal size drawing with 4pt type done on my BJ 200 with the same drawing printed on
an HP Laserjet IID and I was amazed how well I could read the small print on the BJ 200. Printing speed was several seconds faster on the BJ 200 which is amazing considering that the HP has 2.5M ram installed.
I measured the time from when the printer first indicated it was receiving data (as I used print manager in Windows).

I guess I have some experience with both: I have a BJ-300 at work and a Deskjet 500 at home. I prefer the Deskjet. The printing speed and quality
are similar (I tested both with text and graphics before buying the Deskjet for home). The feature that sets the Deskjet apart is the driver support
in so many applications. The BJ ends up emulating the Epson LQ or IBM Proprinter to get it to work with many non-windows apps and this will be
the case for a long time. The design is superior if you just want to use
cut paper, the Deskjet is quieter, AND the ink cartridges are quite a bit cheaper due to the number of Deskjets out there in comparision to the BJs. Just my $0.02 worth..
--
Mike Mattix
Agricultural Group of Monsanto
P.O. Box 174
Luling, LA 70070
INTERNET Address: dmm...@bigez.monsanto.com =========================================================================== Yes, there is the landscape mode printing problem, but it does not
present a problem in Windows as the Windows printer driver handles the translation. I actually thought of some other points after I posted the
note. The Deskjet has an unprintable area of approximately .5inch around
the paper the Bubblejet does not. You are right about the graphics resolutions, I tested the printers with the applications I had access to: Wordperfect, Harvard Graphics, WinGIF, Paintshop PRO, and Paintbrush and could not tell a difference. In fact one of the HP Deskjet Windows drivers gives you significant control over the contrast and density of the printer hence controlling the amount of ink you put down. The Bubblejet did not.
I had no imaging software to test the printers with and so had no
comparision there. Finally, I wanted sheet feeding. In that configuration
the Bubblejet cost approximately $100 more than the Deskjet.
I went through a pretty thorough evaluation and chose the Deskjet when I spent my own money. BTW, I am replacing the BJ-300 with a Deskjet 500 at
work this month anyway.
Regards
Mike Mattix
Ag Group of Monsanto
Luling, LA ===========================================================================
I spent some time comparing the two. We ended up getting the Bubblejet
BJ-200 versus the HP. Our reasons were:
1) The HP seemed to have worse banding than the Canon
2) 360dpi versus 300 - we felt we could see the difference
3) Price - Canon has a $50 rebate program going on at the moment.
The BJ-200 was our choice over the BJ-10ex - we could have 100 pages in the BJ-200 feeder. The BJ-10ex holds only 30 pages, I think.
As you can see, up to 100 pages on the BJ-200. We haven't done anything
big with the BJ, but its performance seems reasonable under Windows. I
know that the Microsoft BBS has a newer windows driver than comes with the printer, but I don't know how it compares (also the driver included with
the printer is Canon's whereas I don't know where the Microsoft BBS one
comes from - Microsoft?)
Hope this helps.
--
Thomas V. Frauenhofer, WA2YYW
t...@cci.com, ...!uunet!uupsi!cci632!tvf, t...@cs.rit.edu
Mandlebratwurst: The Meal that Eats Itself! =========================================================================== Altough I'm sometimes also a salesperson (if I'm not suppost to study :-))
I would recommend to buy the BJ200. The printing quality is a bit better,
but you you've got much more possiblities. Don't forget the HP engine is at least 2 years on the marked, the Canon engine (witch is also used in
other "new" bubblejet printers like e.g. the Epson ones) is quite recently available..

Now, I would greatly appreciate any information you could render on the 360 dpi of the Canon BubbleJet vs. the Hewlett-Packard DeskJet 500 (300 dpi). Which is faster? Is there a noticeable print quality difference, particularly in graphics? Which will handle large documents better (75

I've seen during a short demonstration (from someone who tryed to sell me Canon printers) 2 times the same picture, one printed with the BJ200, one with the Canon, the other with the HP, and.. there was a difference in printing- quality,.. The Canon was a bit better..
Greetz,
Kris =========================================================================== When we decided we needed quiet printers in our hospital we looked to
inkjet printers. They have near laser quality, speed, and they are quiet.
We use both HP Deskjets and the Canon BJ-200s. I prefer the paper handling qualities of the Deskjets but I feel the Canons have superior print
quality. The Ideal would be a Canon with a sheet feeder, however I did end
up buying a deskjet for home use (got too good a deal). Anyway, we are
using Canons in high volume areas and they are holding up very well. Out
of 15 Deskjets and 4 BJ-200s I have only had one problem with a deskjet and that was taken care of very quickly by HP.
-Nate =========================================================================== Whenever I buy anything I look at what the "experts" say, pick out the top few and then buy on whatever criteria are the most apt. I've been
unusually flush lately (no begging letter please) and so I've done this a
few times including - about four months ago - with inkjet printers.
I can't remember much about the process except that I read about three reviews of inkjets and that the 500 was always at or near the top. I
bought the 500C because of the added dimension of colour (I intend to build
a multi- media machine at some stage and have just bought a colour scanner towards that). Although I haven's used the colour thing in earnest yet I tried it out on a couple of Windows bitmaps and I was pleased with the result.
I note that even though you can now get the 550C (the one with both colour and mono with no need to change the cartridge), the 500C and 500 are still readily available (at least in the UK). The following are my views/experience:
1. I don't know anything about the Canon except that I came away
from reviews (and replies to a posting similar to yours) with
the idea that the HP offered the best performance/price ratio.
2. I believe HP are the originals in the field - not always the
ideal place to be but the market's still young so one assumes
they have the expertise.
3. The 500C is worth the extra. Operation in mono is perfectly
acceptable and I get good crisp reproduction of fonts from
Windows.
4. I used to work for Monotype when they still manufactured
typesetters (before their AMERICAN owners closed them down!)
and I can tell you that in terms of definition 300 dpi is
pretty poor anyway so 360 dpi is just a bit less poor...
5. The HP comes with a reasonable set of drivers.
6. If you buy it invest in the additional RAM pack - it's pretty
slow with it, God knows what it's like without!
I actually work in Germany and my PC is home in the UK so it's not in daily use. I would say that apart from my not reading the manual properly and having a really dumb problem at the start it's easy peasy to operate.
Hope this is of use.
Regards
David =========================================================================== Just bought the BJ-200. I thought the price couldn't be beat ($329, with
$50 rebate thru 5/31) and so far it is comparable, even superior, to the DeskJet in print quality.
Speed: Per page rate seems to be faster (I don't have figures).
I don't print long docs, though.
Quality: I think the graphics quality is excellent. Print quality is excellent as well, unless you use small fonts and hold it up
close; you can see a lot more "jaggies" than on a LaserJet.
The 360 dpi is offset by a little less accuracy in holding the
page/print head in place, I would imagine.
Large docs: Not room in the standard model for a whole lotta pages ...
manual says up to 100, though. Haven't tried it.
Drivers: No problems under Win3.1 yet. WinWord doesn't want to print
the envelopes the same way the Canon does, though.
Know nothing of add-on costs.
Daniel A. Hartung -- dhar...@chinet.chinet.com -- Ask me about Rotaract =========================================================================== >The deskjet is SLOW. This is in comparison to the other printers I >mentioned. I have no idea how the bubblejet compares.

The interface between Win3.1 and the printer is just dandy, I've not
had any problems with it.

I just bought a BJ-200 printer a couple of days ago. I compared it to the sample print of an HP DeskJet 500 and knew that the HP wasn't for me. The BJ-200 is pretty fast and really prints with good quality. I can compare
it with the HP LaserJet IIID PostScript and they look almost identical ( depending on the kind of paper). I don't have problems with the ink not
being dry, it seems to dry VERY fast. Probably within a second. Since
Canon is giving a $50 rebate until the end of May, it is really a good buy.

---
Sean Eckton
Computer Support Representative
College of Fine Arts and Communications =========================================================================== Wow, it's funny you should ask this. I'm a little behind in news reading
so I know this may be late.
I just purchased the Canon Bubblejet last night. I was really worried
that I wouldn't like it but the print quality, and noise level is
fantastic! I printed quite a few documents with lots of graphics and it printed DAMN near laser quality. You can't tell it's not laser unless you
get 2 inches from the page.
no problems with drivers. The printer came with the driver diskette
which is good because I was beginning to panic when I couldn't findi it
under Windows or WordPerfect. It works well under both. I have yet to
install Word for Windows so don't know how it works with them.
I had a DeskJet 500 at work last year. It was a good printer as well ut
I felt it was awfully slow. And much noisier than the BubbleJet. I won't
say the BubbleJet is MUCH better, but I really do like it more. Just my
$0.02 worth.
-=- Brett =========================================================================== --
Sincerely,
Robert Kayman ---- kay...@cs.stanford.edu -or- c...@cs.stanford.edu
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not." "You mean you want the revised revision of the original revised revision revised?!?!"

One of the best printers made.

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