I saw a bloke complaining on a Facebook group that his new Windows 11
laptop won't work offline.

My wife has a Windows 11 laptop, which doesn't seem to have any
problem in workinjg offline, so I assume there is some kind of
setting, mperhaps related to the use of Micrtosoft One Drive, which
might be preventing his computer from working offline.

Can anyone give any advice on solving this problem?


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 12:00:44 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:

Can anyone give any advice on solving this problem?

If I would guess I'd say it has something to do with having/using a
Microsoft account.

You can always ask in alt.comp.os.windows-11.

--
s|b

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XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

I saw a bloke complaining on a Facebook group that his new Windows 11
laptop won't work offline.

My wife has a Windows 11 laptop, which doesn't seem to have any
problem in working offline, so I assume there is some kind of setting,
perhaps related to the use of Microsoft One Drive, which might be
preventing his computer from working offline.

Can anyone give any advice on solving this problem?


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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On 21.06.2024 um 11:07 Uhr Steve Hayes wrote:

I saw a bloke complaining on a Facebook group that his new Windows 11
laptop won't work offline.

My wife has a Windows 11 laptop, which doesn't seem to have any
problem in working offline, so I assume there is some kind of setting, perhaps related to the use of Microsoft One Drive, which might be
preventing his computer from working offline.

Windows 11 can't be installed without logging in with an MS account or
creating one. There are circumvention methods, but MS tries to block
them.
It can work without internet, but I dunno how low and wouldn't
recommend to rely on it for such use cases.

Without knowing wich component exactly refuses to work in that
situation this can't be fixed.

OneDrive is IIRC still optional, but relies on an internet connection
to sync the files. I don't know how long it will work without one.

--
kind regards
Marco

Send spam to 1718960851muell@cartoonies.org

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Newyana2 wrote:

[snip]

 For most people that question is as geeky and irrelevant as
asking when they got their last oil change. Their mechanic
knows. Or worse, the dealer where they bought the car
knows. They don't want to know. So they trust their handlers.

Given that M$ and others must therefore rely on users having a good
internet connection it surprises me that M$ has not built a business to
install and maintain internet connections. I know that this is so
costly that Openreach can't guarantee FTTP everywhere in the UK
(probably ever!) and even some populous areas can't get it for years yet
- and this at a time when they are trying to discontinue POTS and have
all phone calls carried over broadband.

M$ is extremely well off. They should take over Openreach completely -
it would probably amount to small change for them.

It does mean that a service which our government deems as essential for communication with officialdom would be provided by a foreign third
party - but this appears to be true of water, electricity, and transport
- to name but a few.


--
Graham J

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On 6/21/2024 5:07 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:

I saw a bloke complaining on a Facebook group that his new Windows 11
laptop won't work offline.

My wife has a Windows 11 laptop, which doesn't seem to have any
problem in working offline, so I assume there is some kind of setting, perhaps related to the use of Microsoft One Drive, which might be
preventing his computer from working offline.

Can anyone give any advice on solving this problem?

I updated a Win10 laptop to Win11 with a downloaded
ISO. There's no MS account. No OneDrive. It's never
been online. I use it mostly out of curiosity and for testing
software, but it works just fine.

It sounds like your friend may not know what online
means, or what it means to have a working computer.
Maybe they were trying to access Facebook, or open
files they stored online? That may sound nutty, but most
people don't even know what operating system their
computer is running. Most also don't see a distinction
between their computer, OneDrive, GoogleDrive, Adobe
Photoshop files, etc. The first is local. The last three
are all online. But the distinction is blurred deliberately.

It's the "* as a service" business model. SaaS led to
WaaS (Windows as a Service). Part of the scam is to
present it transparently, so that you end up depending
on their online connection but that fact is not obvious.
I think the first such case was Photoshop. Adobe stopped
offering licensed software and now only offers rental. (Many
software insstallers now even default to installing from online
and one has to hunt for the real installer download.)

Having an "account" is another way that they make it
appear as a rental service. People now need accounts to
download WinRT/Metro apps or to read tech help at
answers.microsoft.com.

Things like MS Office and Photoshop are still very much
local software, fully installed, but they're designed to lead
the user to believe they exist online. As I understand it, PS
will work offline now for only a certain period before it must
be allowed to call home.

Anyone who doesn't understand the arrangement and
doesn't save their work offline in non-proprietary formats
would lose all their PS work if they cancel the rental
subscriptions. But why would people know that? Try asking
someone where they keep their Word DOCs. The answer I
get is, "I don't know, but Word knows, so I don't need to." :)

For most people that question is as geeky and irrelevant as
asking when they got their last oil change. Their mechanic
knows. Or worse, the dealer where they bought the car
knows. They don't want to know. So they trust their handlers.

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On 21.06.2024 um 13:07 Uhr Graham J wrote:

Newyana2 wrote:

[snip]

 For most people that question is as geeky and irrelevant as
asking when they got their last oil change. Their mechanic
knows. Or worse, the dealer where they bought the car
knows. They don't want to know. So they trust their handlers.

Given that M$ and others must therefore rely on users having a good
internet connection it surprises me that M$ has not built a business
to install and maintain internet connections.

Wasn't there MSN dialup in the past?

I know that this is so costly that Openreach can't guarantee FTTP
everywhere in the UK (probably ever!) and even some populous areas
can't get it for years yet - and this at a time when they are
trying to discontinue POTS and have all phone calls carried over
broadband.

VoIP works over copper-based DSL if the speed is at least some
megabytes per second. I use that for more than 10 years.


--
kind regards
Marco

Send spam to 1718968059muell@cartoonies.org

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On 6/21/2024 8:07 AM, Graham J wrote:

Given that M$ and others must therefore rely on users having a good
internet connection it surprises me that M$ has not built a business to install and maintain internet connections.  I know that this is so
costly that Openreach can't guarantee FTTP everywhere in the UK
(probably ever!) and even some populous areas can't get it for years yet
- and this at a time when they are trying to discontinue POTS and have
all phone calls carried over broadband.

M$ is extremely well off.  They should take over Openreach completely -
it would probably amount to small change for them.

Interesting thought. Though MS have never had much success
with hardware. Their main business in monopoly maintenance. And
Openreach seems to be only UK.

I have a brother living in a rural area (US) who bought one
of Musk's satellite dishes, after years of poor satellite access
followed by slow ADSL. He still has no cellphone access at
home. It may be as much as 1/3 of US land area that doesn't
have cell service. I don't expect they will unless a law is passed
ruling it as a utility and requiring companies to provide it
everywhere, as they've done with electricity and landlines.

But I read recently that MS are backtracking on MS Office,
planning to once again offer a purchased license version. So
apparently there's a market for that.

It does mean that a service which our government deems as essential for communication with officialdom would be provided by a foreign third
party - but this appears to be true of water, electricity, and transport
- to name but a few.

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On Fri, 21 Jun 2024 13:07:39 +0100, Graham J wrote:

Newyana2 wrote:

[snip]

 For most people that question is as geeky and irrelevant as
asking when they got their last oil change. Their mechanic
knows. Or worse, the dealer where they bought the car
knows. They don't want to know. So they trust their handlers.

Given that M$ and others must therefore rely on users having a good
internet connection it surprises me that M$ has not built a business to install and maintain internet connections.

A bigger issue is that governments and large businesses like to
disable Internet access for many of their employees' computers,
either to prevent injection of malware or to prevent employees from
doing anything fun. Would Microsoft really give up such a market
segment for Windows 11? It seems unlikely to me, and if I'm right
then Windows 11 can probably be used without Internet.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

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On 21/06/2024 10:07, Steve Hayes wrote:

I saw a bloke complaining on a Facebook group that his new Windows 11
laptop won't work offline.

My wife has a Windows 11 laptop, which doesn't seem to have any
problem in working offline, so I assume there is some kind of setting, perhaps related to the use of Microsoft One Drive, which might be
preventing his computer from working offline.

Can anyone give any advice on solving this problem?

There are two kinds of Accounts in Windows 11. Microsoft Account and
Local Account. The default is Microsoft Account when you first try to
install or setup windows 11. This requires Internet access. So the guy
on Facebook must have created a Microsoft account without which you
can't login to your Laptop or desktop. You can tell the guy on Facebook
to disable Microsoft account and start using Local account. Local
account allows you to login without having a live Internet access. See
this link:

<https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-remove-microsoft-account-from-windows-11/>

Please note, Local account does allow you to go online and browse the
web. The only difference is that you don't need internet access 24/7.

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On 6/21/2024 5:07 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:

I saw a bloke complaining on a Facebook group that his new Windows 11
laptop won't work offline.

My wife has a Windows 11 laptop, which doesn't seem to have any
problem in working offline, so I assume there is some kind of setting, perhaps related to the use of Microsoft One Drive, which might be
preventing his computer from working offline.

Can anyone give any advice on solving this problem?

[Retransmit]

Did the machine come out of OOBE state properly at purchase, and request signup ?

Is the machine brand new, or was it returned to a store, re-boxed
and sold to the person ?

It is possible the device had some admin changes without authorization
by the user.

Any time a machine has an "unknown" status from a security perspective,
either do a factory reset, or install with a fresh download of media.
Google for "windows 11 download" for more info.

With modern machines, they don't always have a 15GB partition with
a factory image hiding in it. Yet, the device may still have a
reset capability, where it can build an OS image from available files,
and use that to kick off a fresh installation.

*******

Now, my machine is home-built, and the OS installed from media.
This is my status. workgroup=WORKGROUP and not domain joined.
A domain joined machine, might appreciate being able to talk
to the domain controller, during authentication.

In any case, Microsoft likes to promote Windows Hello or
the usage of PIN input instead of a password, and this
is more likely to resolve locally (without a network connection
being needed).

dsregcmd /status

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Device State | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

AzureAdJoined : NO
EnterpriseJoined : NO
DomainJoined : NO
Virtual Desktop : NOT SET
Device Name : WALLACE

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| User State | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

NgcSet : NO
WorkplaceJoined : NO
WamDefaultSet : YES
WamDefaultAuthority : consumers
WamDefaultId : https://login.microsoft.com
WamDefaultGUID : {D7F9...} (MicrosoftAccount)

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| SSO State | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

AzureAdPrt : NO
AzureAdPrtAuthority : NO
EnterprisePrt : NO
EnterprisePrtAuthority : NO

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| IE Proxy Config for Current User | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

Auto Detect Settings : YES
Auto-Configuration URL :
Proxy Server List :
Proxy Bypass List :

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| WinHttp Default Proxy Config | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

Access Type : DIRECT

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ngc Prerequisite Check | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

IsDeviceJoined : NO
IsUserAzureAD : NO
PolicyEnabled : NO
PostLogonEnabled : YES
DeviceEligible : YES
SessionIsNotRemote : YES
CertEnrollment : none
PreReqResult : WillNotProvision

For more information, please visit https://www.microsoft.com/aadjerrors

*******

Paul

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On Fri, 21 Jun 2024 17:31:12 +0000, Jack <noreply@mandrill.com> wrote:

On 21/06/2024 10:07, Steve Hayes wrote:

I saw a bloke complaining on a Facebook group that his new Windows 11
laptop won't work offline.

My wife has a Windows 11 laptop, which doesn't seem to have any
problem in working offline, so I assume there is some kind of setting,
perhaps related to the use of Microsoft One Drive, which might be
preventing his computer from working offline.

Can anyone give any advice on solving this problem?

There are two kinds of Accounts in Windows 11. Microsoft Account and
Local Account. The default is Microsoft Account when you first try to
install or setup windows 11. This requires Internet access. So the guy
on Facebook must have created a Microsoft account without which you
can't login to your Laptop or desktop. You can tell the guy on Facebook
to disable Microsoft account and start using Local account.

Thank you, that's exactly what I wanted to know.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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On 2024-06-21 19:06, Stan Brown wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jun 2024 13:07:39 +0100, Graham J wrote:

Newyana2 wrote:

[snip]

 For most people that question is as geeky and irrelevant as
asking when they got their last oil change. Their mechanic
knows. Or worse, the dealer where they bought the car
knows. They don't want to know. So they trust their handlers.

Given that M$ and others must therefore rely on users having a good
internet connection it surprises me that M$ has not built a business to
install and maintain internet connections.

A bigger issue is that governments and large businesses like to
disable Internet access for many of their employees' computers,
either to prevent injection of malware or to prevent employees from
doing anything fun. Would Microsoft really give up such a market
segment for Windows 11? It seems unlikely to me, and if I'm right
then Windows 11 can probably be used without Internet.

Some places allow internet access, but limit it. Not all addresses are permitted. Specifically, they do not allow Microsoft updates. Updates
have to be vetted and come from an intranet server, possibly in off
hours. Possibly windows 11 is not yet allowed, they have to vet it
first, a process that can take years.

This type of control is done using the server version and a windows domain.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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On 6/22/2024 6:02 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jun 2024 17:31:12 +0000, Jack <noreply@mandrill.com> wrote:

On 21/06/2024 10:07, Steve Hayes wrote:

I saw a bloke complaining on a Facebook group that his new Windows 11
laptop won't work offline.

My wife has a Windows 11 laptop, which doesn't seem to have any
problem in working offline, so I assume there is some kind of setting,
perhaps related to the use of Microsoft One Drive, which might be
preventing his computer from working offline.

Can anyone give any advice on solving this problem?

There are two kinds of Accounts in Windows 11. Microsoft Account and
Local Account. The default is Microsoft Account when you first try to
install or setup windows 11. This requires Internet access. So the guy
on Facebook must have created a Microsoft account without which you
can't login to your Laptop or desktop. You can tell the guy on Facebook
to disable Microsoft account and start using Local account.

Thank you, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

When you define an MSA, it is possible to set up a PIN afterwards,
which resolves locally. The PIN is not necessarily a four digit number
like at the bank. A PIN can be an arbitrary sequence such as LetMeInStupid.
You would make a PIN for yourself, that is easy to remember, versus
the xxxYYY123*/%... kind of password you might be using for the MSA.

lucky@gmail.com gmail-password-value (when actually using GMAIL)
lucky@gmail.com Microsoft-separate-password-for-MSA (when logging in as Lucky)

Those two passwords do not have to be the same, and for
exploit purposes they should not be the same. Neither should
the passwords be crackable with a dictionary attack (no 12345 on those).

The "SIgn In Options" may have the PIN setup. The PIN will disable
itself as a mechanism, if the machine is abused (it seems someone is
trying to break in, then it disabled).

https://images.minitool.com/partitionwizard.com/images/uploads/articles/2022/01/win-11-your-pin-is-no-longer-available/win-11-your-pin-is-no-longer-available-1.png

Paul

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On 21/06/2024 10:20, Marco Moock wrote:

On 21.06.2024 um 11:07 Uhr Steve Hayes wrote:

I saw a bloke complaining on a Facebook group that his new Windows 11
laptop won't work offline.

My wife has a Windows 11 laptop, which doesn't seem to have any
problem in working offline, so I assume there is some kind of setting,
perhaps related to the use of Microsoft One Drive, which might be
preventing his computer from working offline.

Windows 11 can't be installed without logging in with an MS account or creating one. There are circumvention methods, but MS tries to block
them.
It can work without internet, but I dunno how low and wouldn't
recommend to rely on it for such use cases.

Without knowing wich component exactly refuses to work in that
situation this can't be fixed.

OneDrive is IIRC still optional, but relies on an internet connection
to sync the files. I don't know how long it will work without one.

Oh yes it can, I've just done it twice.

1st an upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11. Ethernet cable removed
after the files had downloaded & no request for an MSA

2nd After cloning Windows 11 from a smaller M.2 drive, formatting & partitioning the drive, used the Media Creation Tool to do a fresh install. Then used the Shift + F10 Command Prompt method to install successfully.


--
Regards
wasbit

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On 6/23/2024 11:00 AM, wasbit wrote:

On 21/06/2024 10:20, Marco Moock wrote:

On 21.06.2024 um 11:07 Uhr Steve Hayes wrote:

I saw a bloke complaining on a Facebook group that his new Windows 11
laptop won't work offline.

My wife has a Windows 11 laptop, which doesn't seem to have any
problem in working offline, so I assume there is some kind of setting,
perhaps related to the use of Microsoft One Drive, which might be
preventing his computer from working offline.

Windows 11 can't be installed without logging in with an MS account or
creating one. There are circumvention methods, but MS tries to block
them.
It can work without internet, but I dunno how low and wouldn't
recommend to rely on it for such use cases.

Without knowing wich component exactly refuses to work in that
situation this can't be fixed.

OneDrive is IIRC still optional, but relies on an internet connection
to sync the files. I don't know how long it will work without one.

Oh yes it can, I've just done it twice.

1st an upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11. Ethernet cable removed after the files had downloaded & no request for an MSA

2nd After cloning Windows 11 from a smaller M.2 drive, formatting & partitioning the drive,
used the Media Creation Tool to do a fresh install.
Then used the Shift + F10 Command Prompt method to install successfully.

I did a Secure Boot install of Win11Pro yesterday, and
shift-F10 and OOBE/BYPASSNRO worked to allow a local account only
installation. When you do the OOBE/BYPASSNRO , it does a reboot,
and the OOBE sequence runs again with the local account choice.

And I went to the trouble of installing an OS, just so the status
of my machine would do this. By loading a Secure Boot OS on the machine,
a certain patch would enter the machine, meddle with the UEFI BIOS contents, and this would happen.

PS> [System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes) -match ‘Windows UEFI CA 2023’
True

That means some boot managers in the UEFI BIOS have been blacklisted,
by a certificate change. The impact would be most likely to be
detected, if I was Secure booting, which I'm not.

PS> confirm-securebootuefi <=== how I normally run my system, not secure booted
False I will not be a hostage to a Secure Boot drama.

Note that, even though I am not Secure Booted, the machine is still
bomb squad material. I have two TPMs. If I switch on the fTPM and
I switch off the physical TPM, my PIN is invalidated, I'm made to
enter the MSA password *AND* asked for recovery information. This
is why you DONT fiddle the TPM setting, OK ? :-) See, this is
how Paul learns stuff. Fire! Hot! Ouch.

Paul

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Every machine I setup, I keep the eternet cable unplugged to make sure I
can install without having to have an MS account.

The other day I was re-loading the OS on a machine I was given and could
not proceed because it was Home edition.

I Googled and got a vert clever hack for that.

The reason I think it important not to setup an MS account is because I
had a friend who did not know what she was doing sign in, then ended up
locking herself out later because she forgot her MS password

I had a hell of a time getting her local account back

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On 6/25/24 8:24 PM, philo wrote:

Every machine I setup, I keep the eternet cable unplugged to make sure I
can install without having to have an MS account.

The other day I was re-loading the OS on a machine I was given and could
not proceed because it was Home edition.

I Googled and got a vert clever hack for that.

The reason I think it important not to setup an MS account is because I
had a friend who did not know what she was doing sign in, then ended up locking herself out later because she forgot her MS password

I had a hell of a time getting her local account back

You have to set up the recovery information, if reliant on an MSA
for your login.

I'm hoping some day, we can fix all this nonsense of recovery,
with a FIDO key (something you own plus something you know).

If your PIN stops working, you WILL be harassed.

Paul

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