https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/taxes/article-13688929/IRS-worker-reveals-reasons-call-hold-tax-delays.html
Decades-old computer systems 'paid for by the Kennedy administration'
and terrible management are the reasons for poor customer service at the
IRS, an insider has claimed.
An IRS employee, who has worked at the agency for more than a decade,
has spoken exclusively to DailyMail.com about its failings, as it comes
under fire for long call wait times.
The staffer, who has worked on the customer service and IT teams, said
that managers pursued 'vanity projects' instead of making changes which
would benefit workers and taxpayers.
. . .
Doesn't surprise me.
Hmm ... what was good in the very early 60s ?
IBM had a number of offerings, esp it's new and great System/360. The
article did not specify WHAT 'ancient' computers.
Of interest here is that such old tech DOES still WORK. Most of this
stuff was still discrete transistors in BIG boxes.
Yea, yea, the modern stuff is 1000s of times faster and more compact.
I think a Raspberry Pi credit-card computer is a lot faster and more
capable. Modern stuff may not AS reliable however.
However there's ANOTHER issue ... one guys I knew in the biz even yet
come across. It's the SOFTWARE.
A lot of it was written in COBOL by those arrow-tie Dilberts LONG
ago. It's GREAT software - those square-
lookin' nerd guys were REALLY GOOD.
But good software requires good MONEY ... and a lot of biz/govt
entities can't afford having the good old standards re-created for
modern hardware. Can barely afford (or find) people who can do little
patches on what is.
So, they can't afford to, don't DARE to, replace that 60 year old
hardware and software. It works, so LEAVE IT ALONE.
Heh ... I remember visiting a county facility when I was still pretty
young. The computer room was freezing and the floor was laser-leveled
for the benefit of the old-style disk drive units (and I mean
"units", you could physically remove a big spool of about 12" wide
disks - DO wait until they stop spinning !). There were also the
boxes with the spinning tapes and the obligatory card and paper-tape
readers.
The "cpu chip" was about a cubic METER in size in the middle of the
room - DEC I think, PDP-4 or maybe PDP-7 - full of a bunch of circuit
boards with zillions of individual transistors and perhaps a few
early "chips". Workers/programmers had serial terminals at their
desks.
Even then the machine was technically obsolete,
early PCs were already starting to come out, but again they could not
afford/dare to replace it. 50s/60s easy money had RUN OUT.
BTW, if you're a COBOL guru you can make GOOD money these days
maintaining all that old software ... it's in Big Govt all the way
down to medium local biz.
On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 22:01:12 -0400, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote in <kcOcnV96BcJ0yFz7nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@earthlink.com>:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/taxes/article-13688929/IRS-worker-reveals-reasons-call-hold-tax-delays.html
Decades-old computer systems 'paid for by the Kennedy administration'
and terrible management are the reasons for poor customer service at the
IRS, an insider has claimed.
An IRS employee, who has worked at the agency for more than a decade,
has spoken exclusively to DailyMail.com about its failings, as it comes
under fire for long call wait times.
The staffer, who has worked on the customer service and IT teams, said
that managers pursued 'vanity projects' instead of making changes which
would benefit workers and taxpayers.
. . .
Doesn't surprise me.
Hmm ... what was good in the very early 60s ?
IBM had a number of offerings, esp it's new and great System/360. The
article did not specify WHAT 'ancient' computers.
Of interest here is that such old tech DOES still WORK. Most of this
stuff was still discrete transistors in BIG boxes.
Yea, yea, the modern stuff is 1000s of times faster and more compact.
I think a Raspberry Pi credit-card computer is a lot faster and more
capable. Modern stuff may not AS reliable however.
However there's ANOTHER issue ... one guys I knew in the biz even yet
come across. It's the SOFTWARE.
A lot of it was written in COBOL by those arrow-tie Dilberts LONG
ago. It's GREAT software - those square-
lookin' nerd guys were REALLY GOOD.
But good software requires good MONEY ... and a lot of biz/govt
entities can't afford having the good old standards re-created for
modern hardware. Can barely afford (or find) people who can do little
patches on what is.
So, they can't afford to, don't DARE to, replace that 60 year old
hardware and software. It works, so LEAVE IT ALONE.
Heh ... I remember visiting a county facility when I was still pretty
young. The computer room was freezing and the floor was laser-leveled
for the benefit of the old-style disk drive units (and I mean
"units", you could physically remove a big spool of about 12" wide
disks - DO wait until they stop spinning !). There were also the
boxes with the spinning tapes and the obligatory card and paper-tape
readers.
The "cpu chip" was about a cubic METER in size in the middle of the
room - DEC I think, PDP-4 or maybe PDP-7 - full of a bunch of circuit
boards with zillions of individual transistors and perhaps a few
early "chips". Workers/programmers had serial terminals at their
desks.
Even then the machine was technically obsolete,
early PCs were already starting to come out, but again they could not
afford/dare to replace it. 50s/60s easy money had RUN OUT.
BTW, if you're a COBOL guru you can make GOOD money these days
maintaining all that old software ... it's in Big Govt all the way
down to medium local biz.
If you're so inclined to learn on your own...GNU has COBOL.
COBC(1) User Commands COBC(1)
NAME
cobc - manual page for cobc 3.1.2.0
SYNOPSIS
cobc [options]... file...
DESCRIPTION
GnuCOBOL compiler for most COBOL dialects with lots of
extensions
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
Our local community college used to have a COBOL class, as it led
a software consortium that ran COBOL software on mainframes. Looks
like they retired those old systems in 2009.
Hmm ... what was good in the very early 60s ?
IBM had a number of offerings, esp it's new and great System/360. The
article did not specify WHAT 'ancient' computers.
On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 22:01:12 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Hmm ... what was good in the very early 60s ?
IBM had a number of offerings, esp it's new and great System/360. The
article did not specify WHAT 'ancient' computers.
Depending on how literally you want to take 'Kennedy administration' it
would be a 7000 hopefully. At least that one had transistors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_700/7000_series
https://web.archive.org/web/20200119162242/http://blog.modernmechanix.com/ big-brother-7074-is-watching-you/
A contemporary article with a chilling vision of the future:
"Eventually, large corporations could also be plugged into the system. Computers thousands of miles apart could talk taxes without any numbskull human interference. Banks could be hooked in, too, reporting who is
getting interest payments. Real-estate and stock-market computers might tattle on who is making money. Machines in charity organizations could
reveal amounts of donations. And hospital computers could report on individual medical costs."
System/360 was announced in '64 but RPI had one of the first 360/30s in
'65 when I took my first programming class in FORTRAN IV. Kennedy was shot
in '63.
On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 22:01:12 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Hmm ... what was good in the very early 60s ?
IBM had a number of offerings, esp it's new and great System/360. The
article did not specify WHAT 'ancient' computers.
Depending on how literally you want to take 'Kennedy administration' it
would be a 7000 hopefully. At least that one had transistors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_700/7000_series
https://web.archive.org/web/20200119162242/http://blog.modernmechanix.com/ big-brother-7074-is-watching-you/
A contemporary article with a chilling vision of the future:
"Eventually, large corporations could also be plugged into the system. Computers thousands of miles apart could talk taxes without any numbskull human interference. Banks could be hooked in, too, reporting who is
getting interest payments. Real-estate and stock-market computers might tattle on who is making money. Machines in charity organizations could
reveal amounts of donations. And hospital computers could report on individual medical costs."
System/360 was announced in '64 but RPI had one of the first 360/30s in
'65 when I took my first programming class in FORTRAN IV. Kennedy was shot
in '63.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/taxes/article-13688929/IRS-worker-reveals-reasons-call-hold-tax-delays.html
Decades-old computer systems 'paid for by the Kennedy
administration' and terrible management are the reasons
for poor customer service at the IRS, an insider has claimed.
...
However there's ANOTHER issue ... one guys I knew
in the biz even yet come across. It's the SOFTWARE.
A lot of it was written in COBOL by those arrow-tie
Dilberts LONG ago. It's GREAT software - those square-
lookin' nerd guys were REALLY GOOD.
But good software requires good MONEY ... and a lot
of biz/govt entities can't afford having the good
old standards re-created for modern hardware. Can
barely afford (or find) people who can do little
patches on what is.
So, they can't afford to, don't DARE to, replace that 60 year old
hardware and software. It works, so LEAVE IT ALONE.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/taxes/article-13688929/IRS-worker-reveals-reasons-call-hold-tax-delays.html
Decades-old computer systems 'paid for by the Kennedy
administration' and terrible management are the reasons
for poor customer service at the IRS, an insider has claimed.
An IRS employee, who has worked at the agency...
Hmm ... what was good in the very early 60s ?
IBM had a number of offerings, esp it's new
and great System/360. The article did not
specify WHAT 'ancient' computers.
So, they can't afford to, don't DARE to, replace that
60 year old hardware and software. It works, so
LEAVE IT ALONE.
BTW, if you're a COBOL guru you can make GOOD
money these days maintaining all that old
software ... it's in Big Govt all the way down
to medium local biz.
A contemporary article with a chilling vision of the future:
"Eventually, large corporations could also be plugged into the system. Computers thousands of miles apart could talk taxes without any
numbskull human interference. Banks could be hooked in, too, reporting
who is getting interest payments. Real-estate and stock-market computers might tattle on who is making money. Machines in charity organizations
could reveal amounts of donations. And hospital computers could report
on individual medical costs."
3. Companies sending out Tax Documents later than the law
specifics.
An IRS employee, who has worked at the agency for more than
a decade, has spoken exclusively to DailyMail
On Sun, 18 Aug 2024 19:54:07 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:
3. Companies sending out Tax Documents later than the law
specifics.
I get my statements online, now. Don't they do that
in your country yet?
Shouldn't the Daily Mail be getting hot under the collar about HMRC
rather than the IRS?
On 18 Aug 2024 03:45:42 GMT, rbowman wrote:
A contemporary article with a chilling vision of the future:
"Eventually, large corporations could also be plugged into the system.
Computers thousands of miles apart could talk taxes without any
numbskull human interference. Banks could be hooked in, too, reporting
who is getting interest payments. Real-estate and stock-market
computers might tattle on who is making money. Machines in charity
organizations could reveal amounts of donations. And hospital computers
could report on individual medical costs."
All routine nowadays. As is compliance with anti-money-laundering laws.
Which are governed by international agreements.
186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
An IRS employee, who has worked at the agency for more than a decade,
has spoken exclusively to DailyMail
Shouldn't the Daily Mail be getting hot under the collar about HMRC
rather than the IRS?
186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
An IRS employee, who has worked at the agency for more than
a decade, has spoken exclusively to DailyMail
Shouldn't the Daily Mail be getting hot under the collar about HMRC
rather than the IRS?
On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 09:39:38 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
An IRS employee, who has worked at the agency for more than a decade,
has spoken exclusively to DailyMail
Shouldn't the Daily Mail be getting hot under the collar about HMRC
rather than the IRS?
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
Matthew 7:3
Let's ignore Rotherham and focus on the DNC fiasco...
On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 02:01:00 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On 18 Aug 2024 03:45:42 GMT, rbowman wrote:
A contemporary article with a chilling vision of the future:
"Eventually, large corporations could also be plugged into the system.
Computers thousands of miles apart could talk taxes without any
numbskull human interference. Banks could be hooked in, too, reporting
who is getting interest payments. Real-estate and stock-market
computers might tattle on who is making money. Machines in charity
organizations could reveal amounts of donations. And hospital computers
could report on individual medical costs."
All routine nowadays. As is compliance with anti-money-laundering laws.
Which are governed by international agreements.
Yeah, the surveillance state is doing fine but the flying cars predicted
in 1963 never happened and there are some guys in orbit that hope they can thumb a ride home someday.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 22:01:12 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Hmm ... what was good in the very early 60s ?
IBM had a number of offerings, esp it's new and great System/360. The >>> article did not specify WHAT 'ancient' computers.
Depending on how literally you want to take 'Kennedy administration' it
would be a 7000 hopefully. At least that one had transistors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_700/7000_series
https://web.archive.org/web/20200119162242/http://blog.modernmechanix.com/ >> big-brother-7074-is-watching-you/
A contemporary article with a chilling vision of the future:
"Eventually, large corporations could also be plugged into the system.
Computers thousands of miles apart could talk taxes without any numbskull
human interference. Banks could be hooked in, too, reporting who is
getting interest payments. Real-estate and stock-market computers might
tattle on who is making money. Machines in charity organizations could
reveal amounts of donations. And hospital computers could report on
individual medical costs."
System/360 was announced in '64 but RPI had one of the first 360/30s in
'65 when I took my first programming class in FORTRAN IV. Kennedy was shot >> in '63.
I was at RPI from '64 to '68 working on my BSEE. Took that FORTRAN
class. Code your program on coding sheets, punch it onto cards, put the
cards into the bin for processing, come back later for the printout. I remember a sign on the input bin to remind you how the cards had to be oriented: 'TOPLEFUP' (top left, face up). Ah, those were the days!
On 8/18/24 11:27 AM, Don_from_AZ wrote:
I was at RPI from '64 to '68 working on my BSEE. Took that FORTRAN
class. Code your program on coding sheets, punch it onto cards, put the
cards into the bin for processing, come back later for the printout. I
remember a sign on the input bin to remind you how the cards had to be
oriented: 'TOPLEFUP' (top left, face up). Ah, those were the days!
HA ! Boy does THAT seem familiar !!! :-)
Didn't hurt to bring gifts for the guys in charge of the 'bin' either
... they'd do your cards first.
The gods in the freezing-cold room with all the real hardware ... you
never got to talk to them.
On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 23:59:48 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 8/18/24 11:27 AM, Don_from_AZ wrote:
I was at RPI from '64 to '68 working on my BSEE. Took that FORTRAN
class. Code your program on coding sheets, punch it onto cards, put the
cards into the bin for processing, come back later for the printout. I
remember a sign on the input bin to remind you how the cards had to be
oriented: 'TOPLEFUP' (top left, face up). Ah, those were the days!
HA ! Boy does THAT seem familiar !!! :-)
Didn't hurt to bring gifts for the guys in charge of the 'bin' either
... they'd do your cards first.
The gods in the freezing-cold room with all the real hardware ... you
never got to talk to them.
The computer building was the only place at RPI that I remember having A/
C. It was new compared to everything else. Eventually the computers were moved to a chapel which is fitting in a 'A Canticle for Leibowitz' sort of way.
https://archives.rpi.edu/institute-history/building-histories/chapel- voorhees-computing-center
Maybe during the summer sessions air conditioning was useful, but most
of the year in Troy what you needed was HEAT! For a couple of years I
lived down on River St and had to walk up the hill past West Hall and
clear to the other side of campus to work at the Freshman dining hall
for breakfast at about 6 AM. One of the banks downtown had a
time/temperature display, and I remember one week straight where it
never got above -20F when I walked by.
That's why I live in Arizona!
Maybe during the summer sessions air conditioning was useful, but most
of the year in Troy what you needed was HEAT! For a couple of years I
lived down on River St and had to walk up the hill past West Hall and
clear to the other side of campus to work at the Freshman dining hall
for breakfast at about 6 AM. One of the banks downtown had a
time/temperature display, and I remember one week straight where it
never got above -20F when I walked by.
I used to get into "thermostat wars" in some shops. I would
surreptitiously sneak the thermostat up to a comfortable level; the
machine didn't mind as long as the temperature was reasonably cool and -
most importantly - steady. The regular staff would discover the
modified setting, have a fit, and turn it back down to its original
arctic setting.
As for the flying cars - probably best that they never worked ...
there'd be flaming junk falling from the skies almost constantly.
People suck even at 2-D driving.
Come winter and the tables turned. We'd be wearing short
sleeve shirts and the guys upstairs were in parkas.
Maybe during the summer sessions air conditioning was useful, but most
of the year in Troy what you needed was HEAT!
Heh ... I remember visiting a county facility when I was still pretty
young. The computer room was freezing and the floor was laser-leveled
for the benefit of the old-style disk drive units (and I mean
"units", you could physically remove a big spool of about 12" wide
disks - DO wait until they stop spinning !). There were also the
boxes with the spinning tapes and the obligatory card and paper-tape
readers.
The "cpu chip" was about a cubic METER in size in the middle of the
room - DEC I think, PDP-4 or maybe PDP-7 - full of a bunch of circuit
boards with zillions of individual transistors and perhaps a few
early "chips". Workers/programmers had serial terminals at their
desks.
vallor wrote:
Heh ... I remember visiting a county facility when I was still
pretty young. The computer room was freezing and the floor was
laser-leveled for the benefit of the old-style disk drive units
(and I mean "units", you could physically remove a big spool of
about 12" wide disks - DO wait until they stop spinning !). There
were also the boxes with the spinning tapes and the obligatory
card and paper-tape readers.
The "cpu chip" was about a cubic METER in size in the middle of
the room - DEC I think, PDP-4 or maybe PDP-7 - full of a bunch of
circuit boards with zillions of individual transistors and perhaps
a few early "chips". Workers/programmers had serial terminals at
their desks.
Yeah, I remember the university had that stuff in the 1970s, and also a "concentrator" that multiplexed 300-baud terminals into an ISDN line.
On 8/17/24 10:24 PM, vallor wrote:
<snip>
If you're so inclined to learn on your own...GNU has COBOL.
COBC(1) User Commands COBC(1)
NAME
cobc - manual page for cobc 3.1.2.0
SYNOPSIS
cobc [options]... file...
DESCRIPTION
GnuCOBOL compiler for most COBOL dialects with lots of
extensions
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
Our local community college used to have a COBOL class, as it led
a software consortium that ran COBOL software on mainframes. Looks
like they retired those old systems in 2009.
I'm gonna be heretical and say GNU isn't Real COBOL ... it's
just a 'C' translator. There ARE some native COBOL compilers,
even a sort of IDE, out there however.
If you're gonna do Old Systems then you HAVE to be able to set
the compiler to respect the OLD standards ... various kinds of
fields/instructions/data start at SPECIFIC PLACES ... which
corresponded with the old punch-cards. "Relaxed" more modern
COBOL/FORTRAN ... great ... but that may NOT get you anywhere
on an actual early 60s system.
I just installed a new box (little BMax) and DID install the
GNU COBOL and FORTRAN (and even 'D' and Modula-2 Just Because).
Even a FORTH compiler ... like to have all bases covered :-)
I'll skip ADA ... DID write some kinda complex-ish stuff for
ADA with self-updating lists of linked lists of linked lists ...
but the data TYPING is just TOO - had to write some 'cheat'
translator functions. Too much ... software should not
work hard AGAINST you .......
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