I've been switching to FreeBSD for most of my computers (laptop and
servers) because of the systemd assumption debacle and updates bring frivolous changes for the sake of change that break things.
If these sorts of things upset you that much (which is reasonable);
perhaps consider stop using software that has too much redhat
influence.
Part of the problem (and feature) of the Linux ecosystem is that every
system component is made by a completely different person/team/company
with different, often conflicting design goals.
You can get away from the FreeDesktop stuff by stop using desktop environments and learn how to configure a compact window manager that
doesn't rely on FreeDesktop stuff.
In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
engineer working for Microsoft ...
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
engineer working for Microsoft ...
Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that a
good thing. There are companies that deserve lots of more hate than MS
does.
On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 11:08:36 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
engineer working for Microsoft ...
Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that a
good thing. There are companies that deserve lots of more hate than MS
does.
Replacing Ballmer with Nadella seems to have had quite an impact. Often replacing a CEO is 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
engineer working for Microsoft ...
Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that
a good thing.
Replacing Ballmer with Nadella seems to have had quite an impact. OftenI'd disagree. I think Nadella is more like Gates then Ballmer. When was
replacing a CEO is 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.
the last time you saw Nadella run on the stage chanting and raving like Ballmer did? :-P
I would prefer a free OS funded by lots of organisations putting a
little money in, rather than relying on a few companies that invest
a lot and whose individual opinions therefore matter. But beggers
can't be choosers (although I can still choose old versions of
Linux, like I'm using now, for some things).
Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
engineer working for Microsoft ...
Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that
a good thing.
I would prefer a free OS funded by lots of organisations putting a
little money in, rather than relying on a few companies that invest
a lot and whose individual opinions therefore matter. But beggers
can't be choosers (although I can still choose old versions of
Linux, like I'm using now, for some things).
Microsoft funding something they don't own, usually boils down to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish .
On Fri, 11 Oct 2024 10:53:58 +0200, D wrote:
Microsoft funding something they don't own, usually boils down to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish .
In fairness Microsoft follows the same path for things they do own. Silverlight anyone?
not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:
I would prefer a free OS funded by lots of organisations putting a
little money in, rather than relying on a few companies that invest
a lot and whose individual opinions therefore matter. But beggers
can't be choosers (although I can still choose old versions of
Linux, like I'm using now, for some things).
So you're doing your own security? Or do you just not care about being vulnerable?
On Thu, 11 Oct 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
engineer working for Microsoft ...
Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that
a good thing.
I would prefer a free OS funded by lots of organisations putting a
little money in, rather than relying on a few companies that invest
a lot and whose individual opinions therefore matter. But beggers
can't be choosers (although I can still choose old versions of
Linux, like I'm using now, for some things).
Microsoft funding something they don't own, usually boils down to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish .
On Fri, 11 Oct 2024 10:53:58 +0200, D wrote:
Microsoft funding something they don't own, usually boils down to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish .
In fairness Microsoft follows the same path for things they do own. Silverlight anyone?
On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 16:10:04 -0400, Phillip Frabott wrote:
Replacing Ballmer with Nadella seems to have had quite an impact. OftenI'd disagree. I think Nadella is more like Gates then Ballmer. When was
replacing a CEO is 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.
the last time you saw Nadella run on the stage chanting and raving like
Ballmer did? :-P
I think we agree but I phrased my remark badly. Nadella is like having an adult running the company. I'm impressed that he managed to turn the corporate culture around. Many times the 'new broom' has little effect.
I don't know how much of that is from Nadella's personal background.
Indian business leaders seem to have a more collaborative, longer term outlook than happens in the US. Ratan Tata was a good example.
I'm skeptical about their AI efforts but at this point I think it's
something they have to do to stay in the game. I do hope the ARM
experiment works out better than the previous attempt.
On 10/10/2024 18:13, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 16:10:04 -0400, Phillip Frabott wrote:
Replacing Ballmer with Nadella seems to have had quite an impact. Often >>>> replacing a CEO is 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.I'd disagree. I think Nadella is more like Gates then Ballmer. When was
the last time you saw Nadella run on the stage chanting and raving like
Ballmer did? :-P
I think we agree but I phrased my remark badly. Nadella is like having an
adult running the company. I'm impressed that he managed to turn the
corporate culture around. Many times the 'new broom' has little effect.
I don't know how much of that is from Nadella's personal background.
Indian business leaders seem to have a more collaborative, longer term
outlook than happens in the US. Ratan Tata was a good example.
I'm skeptical about their AI efforts but at this point I think it's
something they have to do to stay in the game. I do hope the ARM
experiment works out better than the previous attempt.
You opened the door for the relatedness so I had to take it. But yes, from a company corporate perspective I'd agree. But I don't trust Microsoft at all regardless because to me it's all about stealing our data and spying on us with what we do. And Nadella will do what makes the company money. So if they have to screw over their customers to make it so be it. "everyone" (using that loosely) uses Windows so they can do a lot of things to their customers and get away with it because they know their customers can't get away from Windows and Microsoft products. So unfortunately the company's output itself hasn't changed much.
On 10/11/2024 04:53, D wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
engineer working for Microsoft ...
Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that >>>> a good thing.
I would prefer a free OS funded by lots of organisations putting a
little money in, rather than relying on a few companies that invest
a lot and whose individual opinions therefore matter. But beggers
can't be choosers (although I can still choose old versions of
Linux, like I'm using now, for some things).
Microsoft funding something they don't own, usually boils down to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish .
I bothers me how many Linux users want these large corps money in the game. It's dangerous in my opinion because these companies don't have their users best interests at heart at all. And for Microsoft it's all EEE anyways so Microsoft's Money in Linux is very bad news. (yes, pun intended for those who got it).
I often wonder if the community oriented people will turn to BSD, or if
there will be a new kind of "big bang" that will generate something new,
that will take off with lightning speed?
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024, Phillip Frabott wrote:
On 10/10/2024 18:13, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 16:10:04 -0400, Phillip Frabott wrote:
Replacing Ballmer with Nadella seems to have had quite an impact.I'd disagree. I think Nadella is more like Gates then Ballmer. When was >>>> the last time you saw Nadella run on the stage chanting and raving like >>>> Ballmer did? :-P
Often
replacing a CEO is 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.
I think we agree but I phrased my remark badly. Nadella is like
having an
adult running the company. I'm impressed that he managed to turn the
corporate culture around. Many times the 'new broom' has little effect.
I don't know how much of that is from Nadella's personal background.
Indian business leaders seem to have a more collaborative, longer term
outlook than happens in the US. Ratan Tata was a good example.
I'm skeptical about their AI efforts but at this point I think it's
something they have to do to stay in the game. I do hope the ARM
experiment works out better than the previous attempt.
You opened the door for the relatedness so I had to take it. But yes,
from a company corporate perspective I'd agree. But I don't trust
Microsoft at all regardless because to me it's all about stealing our
data and spying on us with what we do. And Nadella will do what makes
the company money. So if they have to screw over their customers to
make it so be it. "everyone" (using that loosely) uses Windows so they
can do a lot of things to their customers and get away with it because
they know their customers can't get away from Windows and Microsoft
products. So unfortunately the company's output itself hasn't changed
much.
That reminds me... today some license term changes from linkedin landed
in my inbox, and apparently all your thoughts, texts and data will now
be used for linkedin business development, and I assume, AI training.
But don't worry... linkedin (Microsoft) has _proactively_ added an _opt-
out_ button, because obviously adding an opt-in would be way too
reactive. ;)
Fortunately at least this practice is illegal in the EU, so there they
cannot do this.
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024, Phillip Frabott wrote:
On 10/11/2024 04:53, D wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his
original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software
engineer working for Microsoft ...
Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that >>>>> a good thing.
I would prefer a free OS funded by lots of organisations putting a
little money in, rather than relying on a few companies that invest
a lot and whose individual opinions therefore matter. But beggers
can't be choosers (although I can still choose old versions of
Linux, like I'm using now, for some things).
Microsoft funding something they don't own, usually boils down to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish .
I bothers me how many Linux users want these large corps money in the
game. It's dangerous in my opinion because these companies don't have
their users best interests at heart at all. And for Microsoft it's all
EEE anyways so Microsoft's Money in Linux is very bad news. (yes, pun
intended for those who got it).
I agree completely. That's why linux is becoming less good and more political. I've had dealings with the linux foundation, and it was all corporate CV stuffing and corporate bullsh*t.
But, another factor I think, is the age and size of the project. It is ossifying. Innovation is slowing down.
I often wonder if the community oriented people will turn to BSD, or if
there will be a new kind of "big bang" that will generate something new,
that will take off with lightning speed?
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024 22:55:37 +0200, D wrote:
I often wonder if the community oriented people will turn to BSD, or if
there will be a new kind of "big bang" that will generate something new,
that will take off with lightning speed?
https://thenewstack.io/open-source-needs-younger-maintainers-how-can-it- get-them/
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the next big bang for operating systems. For that matter Linux and *BSD have been more like a 50 year slow burn than any sort of bang if you consider Unix to be the progenitor.
On 10/12/2024 16:55, D wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024, Phillip Frabott wrote:
On 10/11/2024 04:53, D wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his >>>>>>> original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software >>>>>>> engineer working for Microsoft ...
Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider that >>>>>> a good thing.
I would prefer a free OS funded by lots of organisations putting a
little money in, rather than relying on a few companies that invest
a lot and whose individual opinions therefore matter. But beggers
can't be choosers (although I can still choose old versions of
Linux, like I'm using now, for some things).
Microsoft funding something they don't own, usually boils down to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish .
I bothers me how many Linux users want these large corps money in the
game. It's dangerous in my opinion because these companies don't have
their users best interests at heart at all. And for Microsoft it's all EEE >>> anyways so Microsoft's Money in Linux is very bad news. (yes, pun intended >>> for those who got it).
I agree completely. That's why linux is becoming less good and more
political. I've had dealings with the linux foundation, and it was all
corporate CV stuffing and corporate bullsh*t.
But, another factor I think, is the age and size of the project. It is
ossifying. Innovation is slowing down.
I often wonder if the community oriented people will turn to BSD, or if
there will be a new kind of "big bang" that will generate something new,
that will take off with lightning speed?
Forgive me, I'm going to make the assumption that when you say Linux, you are referring to GNU/Linux (Linux just being the kernel).
I think the innovation is slowing down because GNU/Linux has finally caught up to where other operating systems are today. The same could be said about Windows or MacOS. They really aren't innovating with any speed either. My biggest thing is that I hope with us at a point now where we have technological parity with the other OSes, we can start to see projects finish the 'last mile' of development. Most of the FOSS/OSS/Freedom Software out there is 80% and they just stop developing as "good enough". Which it is, but that extra 20% polish would really create a top notch system that can truly rival and even overthrow the other operating systems. We should try to shift our focus on building the software to 100% but finishing that polish needed for most packages out there.
(If you were referring to only the Linux kernel my statement still applies, just leave the GNU bits of my statement out of it).
On 10/12/2024 16:57, D wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024, Phillip Frabott wrote:
On 10/10/2024 18:13, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 16:10:04 -0400, Phillip Frabott wrote:
Replacing Ballmer with Nadella seems to have had quite an impact. Often >>>>>> replacing a CEO is 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.I'd disagree. I think Nadella is more like Gates then Ballmer. When was >>>>> the last time you saw Nadella run on the stage chanting and raving like >>>>> Ballmer did? :-P
I think we agree but I phrased my remark badly. Nadella is like having an >>>> adult running the company. I'm impressed that he managed to turn the
corporate culture around. Many times the 'new broom' has little effect. >>>>
I don't know how much of that is from Nadella's personal background.
Indian business leaders seem to have a more collaborative, longer term >>>> outlook than happens in the US. Ratan Tata was a good example.
I'm skeptical about their AI efforts but at this point I think it's
something they have to do to stay in the game. I do hope the ARM
experiment works out better than the previous attempt.
You opened the door for the relatedness so I had to take it. But yes, from >>> a company corporate perspective I'd agree. But I don't trust Microsoft at >>> all regardless because to me it's all about stealing our data and spying >>> on us with what we do. And Nadella will do what makes the company money. >>> So if they have to screw over their customers to make it so be it.
"everyone" (using that loosely) uses Windows so they can do a lot of
things to their customers and get away with it because they know their
customers can't get away from Windows and Microsoft products. So
unfortunately the company's output itself hasn't changed much.
That reminds me... today some license term changes from linkedin landed in >> my inbox, and apparently all your thoughts, texts and data will now be used >> for linkedin business development, and I assume, AI training.
But don't worry... linkedin (Microsoft) has _proactively_ added an _opt-
out_ button, because obviously adding an opt-in would be way too reactive. >> ;)
Fortunately at least this practice is illegal in the EU, so there they
cannot do this.
Heh, and opt-out button... This will probably come off conspiratorial but... I wouldn't trust that the opt-out button would actually opt you out of anything. Since you will never be able to see exactly what Microsoft puts into the training set, you'd have no way to prove or validate that it actually opted you out.
I don't mean any disrespect in this next part, but it's just my thoughts. Yes, EU has laws about it, but here's the thing, first, EU would have to prove Microsoft was violating the law, (which Microsoft can easily cover up if they wanted to) and second, with a company as powerful and profitable as Microsoft is, the fines the EU would impose would be a speeding ticket to Microsoft at the end of the day. And if Microsoft threatened the EU to pull it's products from the EU, the EU would likely back down because, (and you can tell me if I'm wrong here) the EU is probably runs Microsoft software in most of it's infrastructures, and likely their government as well. It would cost the EU a ton of money and resources to move away from Microsoft if that were to happen and it's more likely the EU would just back away instead of switching to GNU/Linux or something else due to that cost of deployment, training, resources, etc. It's not like Facebook or X where it would not cause a major disruption like Microsoft would. Microsoft tends to be foundational. Facebook and X is just a consumer service in the grand scheme of things.
(I am making certain assumptions about the EU and Microsoft software. If I'm wrong, then fair enough. But in the US most of our infrastructure and government need Windows to function so I just assume the EU is similar in that regard).
On Sun, 13 Oct 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024 22:55:37 +0200, D wrote:
I often wonder if the community oriented people will turn to BSD, or if
there will be a new kind of "big bang" that will generate something new, >>> that will take off with lightning speed?
https://thenewstack.io/open-source-needs-younger-maintainers-how-can-it-
get-them/
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the next big bang for operating
systems. For that matter Linux and *BSD have been more like a 50 year
slow
burn than any sort of bang if you consider Unix to be the progenitor.
I would argue linux was a big bang.
is good! There is of course no responsibility, and I think perhaps
companies will learn what they are basing their products on, in case a maintainer disappears.
If there's a need, a way will be found.
But looking at the developers I meet today, the vast majority are
javascript and python ninjas.
The ones I know who do C, rust and are generally brilliant are:
1. Few.
2. Older.
I agree that if that is part of a trend, many open source projects will slowly die over the years, and as you say, the chance of a new OS from scratch is perhaps also lower.
But there is this Ladybug browser, with the associated OS, can that be something?
I think the innovation is slowing down because GNU/Linux has finally
caught up to where other operating systems are today. The same could be
said about Windows or MacOS. They really aren't innovating with any
speed either. My biggest thing is that I hope with us at a point now
where we have technological parity with the other OSes, we can start to
see projects finish the 'last mile' of development. Most of the FOSS/OSS/Freedom Software out there is 80% and they just stop developing
as "good enough". Which it is, but that extra 20% polish would really
create a top notch system that can truly rival and even overthrow the
other operating systems. We should try to shift our focus on building
the software to 100% but finishing that polish needed for most packages
out there.
In terms of desktop, my retired father has happily used linux for 10+
years so I'd argue that given an honest look, the linux desktop is
actually far better than any commercial alternatives.
But, being the tech-optimist that I am, that raises the question, will
there be another paradigm shift in OS:s? If so, what could it be?
I think a Gibsonian cyberspace is probably not the future.
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024, Phillip Frabott wrote:
On 10/12/2024 16:57, D wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024, Phillip Frabott wrote:
On 10/10/2024 18:13, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 16:10:04 -0400, Phillip Frabott wrote:
Replacing Ballmer with Nadella seems to have had quite an impact. >>>>>>> OftenI'd disagree. I think Nadella is more like Gates then Ballmer.
replacing a CEO is 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'.
When was
the last time you saw Nadella run on the stage chanting and raving >>>>>> like
Ballmer did? :-P
I think we agree but I phrased my remark badly. Nadella is like
having an
adult running the company. I'm impressed that he managed to turn the >>>>> corporate culture around. Many times the 'new broom' has little
effect.
I don't know how much of that is from Nadella's personal background. >>>>> Indian business leaders seem to have a more collaborative, longer term >>>>> outlook than happens in the US. Ratan Tata was a good example.
I'm skeptical about their AI efforts but at this point I think it's
something they have to do to stay in the game. I do hope the ARM
experiment works out better than the previous attempt.
You opened the door for the relatedness so I had to take it. But
yes, from a company corporate perspective I'd agree. But I don't
trust Microsoft at all regardless because to me it's all about
stealing our data and spying on us with what we do. And Nadella will
do what makes the company money. So if they have to screw over their
customers to make it so be it. "everyone" (using that loosely) uses
Windows so they can do a lot of things to their customers and get
away with it because they know their customers can't get away from
Windows and Microsoft products. So unfortunately the company's
output itself hasn't changed much.
That reminds me... today some license term changes from linkedin
landed in my inbox, and apparently all your thoughts, texts and data
will now be used for linkedin business development, and I assume, AI
training.
But don't worry... linkedin (Microsoft) has _proactively_ added an
_opt- out_ button, because obviously adding an opt-in would be way
too reactive. ;)
Fortunately at least this practice is illegal in the EU, so there
they cannot do this.
Heh, and opt-out button... This will probably come off conspiratorial
but... I wouldn't trust that the opt-out button would actually opt you
out of anything. Since you will never be able to see exactly what
Microsoft puts into the training set, you'd have no way to prove or
validate that it actually opted you out.
I don't mean any disrespect in this next part, but it's just my
thoughts. Yes, EU has laws about it, but here's the thing, first, EU
would have to prove Microsoft was violating the law, (which Microsoft
can easily cover up if they wanted to) and second, with a company as
powerful and profitable as Microsoft is, the fines the EU would impose
would be a speeding ticket to Microsoft at the end of the day. And if
Microsoft threatened the EU to pull it's products from the EU, the EU
would likely back down because, (and you can tell me if I'm wrong
here) the EU is probably runs Microsoft software in most of it's
infrastructures, and likely their government as well. It would cost
the EU a ton of money and resources to move away from Microsoft if
that were to happen and it's more likely the EU would just back away
instead of switching to GNU/Linux or something else due to that cost
of deployment, training, resources, etc. It's not like Facebook or X
where it would not cause a major disruption like Microsoft would.
Microsoft tends to be foundational. Facebook and X is just a consumer
service in the grand scheme of things.
(I am making certain assumptions about the EU and Microsoft software.
If I'm wrong, then fair enough. But in the US most of our
infrastructure and government need Windows to function so I just
assume the EU is similar in that regard).
You could be right, but the speeding ticket issue I think has partly
been addressed. The fines for breaking the law is 4%-10% of global
revenue. That is not speeding ticket level fines.
In terms of how much MS there is in the infra, you are 100% right. There
are small initiatives here and there, for instance, München switched to libreoffice, but usually what happens, is that Microsoft bribes the politicians with promises of an R&D center employing X 100 or 1000
people if they change back, and of course they do, since they are
politicians and not open source enthusiasts.
Finally, in terms of proof, it is very common in the EU to be guilty
until proven innocent. But don't underestimate whistle blowers who can
leak information. I would imagine that the possibility of getting
monetary rewards for leaks either exists already, or will be
implemented, and that would also help motivating people to leak
information about their employers breaking the law.
There is of course a down side to all of this, and that is that the EU
is regulating it's tech sector out of existence, so all skilled technologists, in time, will become employed by non-EU companies, since
there will be no point in starting a tech company in europe, only to be
at risk of high fines for the slightest mistake.
In my opinion, the EU will become a museum where rich tourists from the
rest of the world will go to experience food and culture. There will of course be a tail of tech jobs in heavy industry, but all innovation will leave the EU if its current socialist and pro-regulation agenda
continues for long.
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024, Phillip Frabott wrote:
On 10/12/2024 16:55, D wrote:
On Sat, 12 Oct 2024, Phillip Frabott wrote:
On 10/11/2024 04:53, D wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
But RedHat, and its lackey Poettering,
You should note that the lackey Poettering is now employed by his >>>>>>>> original handler when he was employed by RedHat: Microsoft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
Lennart Poettering (born 15 October 1980) is a German software >>>>>>>> engineer working for Microsoft ...
Microsoft is putting an awful lot of money into Linux. I consider >>>>>>> that
a good thing.
I would prefer a free OS funded by lots of organisations putting a >>>>>> little money in, rather than relying on a few companies that invest >>>>>> a lot and whose individual opinions therefore matter. But beggers
can't be choosers (although I can still choose old versions of
Linux, like I'm using now, for some things).
Microsoft funding something they don't own, usually boils down to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish .
I bothers me how many Linux users want these large corps money in
the game. It's dangerous in my opinion because these companies don't
have their users best interests at heart at all. And for Microsoft
it's all EEE anyways so Microsoft's Money in Linux is very bad news.
(yes, pun intended for those who got it).
I agree completely. That's why linux is becoming less good and more
political. I've had dealings with the linux foundation, and it was
all corporate CV stuffing and corporate bullsh*t.
But, another factor I think, is the age and size of the project. It
is ossifying. Innovation is slowing down.
I often wonder if the community oriented people will turn to BSD, or
if there will be a new kind of "big bang" that will generate
something new, that will take off with lightning speed?
Forgive me, I'm going to make the assumption that when you say Linux,
you are referring to GNU/Linux (Linux just being the kernel).
I think the innovation is slowing down because GNU/Linux has finally
caught up to where other operating systems are today. The same could
be said about Windows or MacOS. They really aren't innovating with any
speed either. My biggest thing is that I hope with us at a point now
where we have technological parity with the other OSes, we can start
to see projects finish the 'last mile' of development. Most of the
FOSS/OSS/Freedom Software out there is 80% and they just stop
developing as "good enough". Which it is, but that extra 20% polish
would really create a top notch system that can truly rival and even
overthrow the other operating systems. We should try to shift our
focus on building the software to 100% but finishing that polish
needed for most packages out there.
(If you were referring to only the Linux kernel my statement still
applies, just leave the GNU bits of my statement out of it).
That's a good point. Maybe the OS-level is so mature, that not much
remains to be added.
In terms of desktop, my retired father has happily used linux for 10+
years so I'd argue that given an honest look, the linux desktop is
actually far better than any commercial alternatives.
But, being the tech-optimist that I am, that raises the question, will
there be another paradigm shift in OS:s? If so, what could it be?
I think a Gibsonian cyberspace is probably not the future.
Smart tech with explosives strapped to its back is everyone's favourite suicide bomber if your population is not oversupplied with gullible idiots.
But there is this Ladybug browser, with the associated OS, can that be something?
I wouldn't. We'd been using Unix for years for bigger iron than a single
user PC. It was pretty well organised in every area except its
commercial existence.
Too much Lawfare.
Unix had a rocky history going back the the Bell anti-trust suit and it didn't get better as time went on
In terms of how much MS there is in the infra, you are 100% right. There
are small initiatives here and there, for instance, München switched to
libreoffice, but usually what happens, is that Microsoft bribes the
politicians with promises of an R&D center employing X 100 or 1000 people
if they change back, and of course they do, since they are politicians and >> not open source enthusiasts.
Yeah I mean, MS would never "allow" it to happen. Until politicians are willing to lose money, MS will continue to feed governments money to keep them solidly on MS products. Which again, is where I can say that any 'speeding ticket' case that would be against MS will be quickly dismissed.
There is of course a down side to all of this, and that is that the EU is
regulating it's tech sector out of existence, so all skilled technologists, >> in time, will become employed by non-EU companies, since there will be no
point in starting a tech company in europe, only to be at risk of high
fines for the slightest mistake.
In my opinion we are starting to see that transition here in the US as well. They are starting with the large corporations (which I think they already have taken over) but will eventually move to the medium/small businesses over time. I hope it doesn't happen because then it's just evil running all of us. But we'll have to see over then next couple elections what happens.
In my opinion, the EU will become a museum where rich tourists from the
rest of the world will go to experience food and culture. There will of
course be a tail of tech jobs in heavy industry, but all innovation will
leave the EU if its current socialist and pro-regulation agenda continues
for long.
I fear this is coming to the US as well. "We the people" need to vote out the politicians that are supporting this cause. But the issue is the younger generations seem to want this to happen. Sadly I don't think they realize how bad this is going to be for us over here but they won't realize it until it's too late I'm afraid.
That's a good point. Maybe the OS-level is so mature, that not much remains >> to be added.
In terms of desktop, my retired father has happily used linux for 10+ years >> so I'd argue that given an honest look, the linux desktop is actually far
better than any commercial alternatives.
But, being the tech-optimist that I am, that raises the question, will
there be another paradigm shift in OS:s? If so, what could it be?
I would think this would only happen/be necessary if/when a technological change in hardware happens that would cause more capability beyond the standard scope of what we have now. Remember, the OS is just an interface between the hardware below it and the software on top of it. It doesn't (and shouldn't) do much more then that. It's just an interface and mediator to share 1 piece of hardware with multiple pieces of software at the same time. So when you think about it, the real question is, what hardware paradigm shift will happen that will need the OS to be changed significantly.
I think a Gibsonian cyberspace is probably not the future.
If that happens, we'll all just hack the Gibson. The police will be on us in like, 10 minutes. And if we all do it together we can do it in 5 minutes, Lord Nikon will safe all our a**es. Lets go shopping!
On Sun, 13 Oct 2024 11:50:39 +0200, D wrote:
But there is this Ladybug browser, with the associated OS, can that be
something?
It's more viable than TempleOS or some of the others.
https://wiki.osdev.org/Notable_Projects
A new OS has to be better than the existing alternatives, not only
different. It also needs to inspire the confidence that it will be around
for longer than a mayfly. A small scale example is Mbed OS.
https://os.mbed.com/blog/entry/Important-Update-on-Mbed/
https://blog.arduino.cc/2019/07/31/why-we-chose-to-build-the-arduino- nano-33-ble-core-on-mbed-os/
The second link is why Arduino chose Mbed for the Nano 33 BLE Sense. It
made perfect sense in 2019. Arduino wasn't the only one to use Mbed. Now
they are scrambling to move to Zephyr OS.
https://blog.arduino.cc/2024/07/24/the-end-of-mbed-marks-a-new-beginning- for-arduino/
Compared to a general purpose OS like Linux or BSD, an embedded RTOS is
samll potatoes but for something like Firefox for example to develop for a new OS there has to be the confidence it isn't going to die. That applies
to many projects other than OSs where you're dependent on a third party.
On 2024-10-13, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Smart tech with explosives strapped to its back is everyone's favourite
suicide bomber if your population is not oversupplied with gullible idiots.
I don't see that supply running out anytime soon, on either side
of the fence. And politicians of all stripes are doing their best
to preserve that supply.
Still, your tech fantasies are rather interesting. I had a somewhat
more modest version of a cockroach-sized device that creeps into
meeting rooms, records incriminating evidence, and broadcasts it.
On Sun, 13 Oct 2024, Phillip Frabott wrote:
That's a good point. Maybe the OS-level is so mature, that not much
remains to be added.
In terms of desktop, my retired father has happily used linux for 10+
years so I'd argue that given an honest look, the linux desktop is
actually far better than any commercial alternatives.
But, being the tech-optimist that I am, that raises the question,
will there be another paradigm shift in OS:s? If so, what could it be?
I would think this would only happen/be necessary if/when a
technological change in hardware happens that would cause more
capability beyond the standard scope of what we have now. Remember,
the OS is just an interface between the hardware below it and the
software on top of it. It doesn't (and shouldn't) do much more then
that. It's just an interface and mediator to share 1 piece of hardware
with multiple pieces of software at the same time. So when you think
about it, the real question is, what hardware paradigm shift will
happen that will need the OS to be changed significantly.
The only thing I can think of that would be radically different would be quantum computers. Maybe it will work in 20-30 years or so, and perhaps
that will bring with it changes?
On the other hand, another perspective on a computer interfaces is that
I formulate things I want to do, and enter those formulations through an input device, and read the putput from an output device.
The physical world hasn't changed much, and the GUI does seem to do the
job quite well, I mean, with a terminal and a GUI, I do not feel
constrained in any way.
On the other hand, that's why they call it a paradigm shift, since I am probably not even aware of the next paradigm, so maybe I am contrained
after all, I just do not know it. ;)
I think a Gibsonian cyberspace is probably not the future.
If that happens, we'll all just hack the Gibson. The police will be on
us in like, 10 minutes. And if we all do it together we can do it in 5
minutes, Lord Nikon will safe all our a**es. Lets go shopping!
True! ;)
On Sun, 13 Oct 2024, Phillip Frabott wrote:
In terms of how much MS there is in the infra, you are 100% right.
There are small initiatives here and there, for instance, München
switched to libreoffice, but usually what happens, is that Microsoft
bribes the politicians with promises of an R&D center employing X 100
or 1000 people if they change back, and of course they do, since they
are politicians and not open source enthusiasts.
Yeah I mean, MS would never "allow" it to happen. Until politicians
are willing to lose money, MS will continue to feed governments money
to keep them solidly on MS products. Which again, is where I can say
that any 'speeding ticket' case that would be against MS will be
quickly dismissed.
I think france judged that MS has to unbundle teams from Office, and in france it is illegal for them to give away their software since it risks outcompeting the local competition. But I have not checked this, so
caveat emptor.
There is of course a down side to all of this, and that is that the
EU is regulating it's tech sector out of existence, so all skilled
technologists, in time, will become employed by non-EU companies,
since there will be no point in starting a tech company in europe,
only to be at risk of high fines for the slightest mistake.
In my opinion we are starting to see that transition here in the US as
well. They are starting with the large corporations (which I think
they already have taken over) but will eventually move to the medium/
small businesses over time. I hope it doesn't happen because then it's
just evil running all of us. But we'll have to see over then next
couple elections what happens.
Really?! This was news to me. Usually I read in european pro-business
papers, that in the US all is well, and the EU is flushed down the
drain, so it was very interesting to hear. On the other hand, lawfare
and regulatory capture is a US national sport, so perhaps the driving
force behind that are the big corporations in order to stop any
competition from developing.
I wonder where the next wave of tech startups will come from? Perhaps
Milei will manage to drain the swamp in Argentina, and Argentina will
become the innovation power house of the planet? Talk about something unexpected, if that were to happen!
In my opinion, the EU will become a museum where rich tourists from
the rest of the world will go to experience food and culture. There
will of course be a tail of tech jobs in heavy industry, but all
innovation will leave the EU if its current socialist and pro-
regulation agenda continues for long.
I fear this is coming to the US as well. "We the people" need to vote
out the politicians that are supporting this cause. But the issue is
the younger generations seem to want this to happen. Sadly I don't
think they realize how bad this is going to be for us over here but
they won't realize it until it's too late I'm afraid.
Sad to hear it. And is it still the case that neither US party has any intention of actually lowering the debt of the country? If not, I would imagine that it eventually will reach a level at which the credit rating agencies cannot ignore it any longer, and that day will certainly send
shock waves throughout the global economy! =/
On Sun, 13 Oct 2024, Phillip Frabott wrote:
In terms of how much MS there is in the infra, you are 100% right. There >>> are small initiatives here and there, for instance, München switched to >>> libreoffice, but usually what happens, is that Microsoft bribes the
politicians with promises of an R&D center employing X 100 or 1000 people >>> if they change back, and of course they do, since they are politicians and >>> not open source enthusiasts.
Yeah I mean, MS would never "allow" it to happen. Until politicians are
willing to lose money, MS will continue to feed governments money to keep
them solidly on MS products. Which again, is where I can say that any
'speeding ticket' case that would be against MS will be quickly dismissed.
I think france judged that MS has to unbundle teams from Office, and in france it is illegal for them to give away their software since it risks outcompeting the local competition. But I have not checked this, so
caveat emptor.
In my opinion, the EU will become a museum where rich tourists from the
rest of the world will go to experience food and culture. There will of
course be a tail of tech jobs in heavy industry, but all innovation will >>> leave the EU if its current socialist and pro-regulation agenda continues >>> for long.
I fear this is coming to the US as well. "We the people" need to vote out
the politicians that are supporting this cause.
But the issue is the younger
generations seem to want this to happen. Sadly I don't think they realize
how bad this is going to be for us over here but they won't realize it
until it's too late I'm afraid.
Sad to hear it. And is it still the case that neither US party has any intention of actually lowering the debt of the country? If not, I would imagine that it eventually will reach a level at which the credit rating agencies cannot ignore it any longer, and that day will certainly send
shock waves throughout the global economy! =/
Heh, The government controls the news and most of the media here. (specifically the democratic party). Facebook, Google, and Microsoft all
do the Government's bidding and the only reason why Twitter stopped
being a Government puppet is because Elon purchased it and kicked the Government out (government has been going after Elon ever since). I
should note that our Government power is in Democrat hands right now. Democrats will deny this is happening but you can do the research and
look into things beyond the surface and you can find the truth of it.
This election between Kamala and Trump will decide the fate of the US.
If Kamala wins the Government will shift to either a Nationalist
Socialist country or a Communist Socialist country depending on certain
other factors. If Trump wins we will remain a Republic Capitalist
country. Despite what the media says, word on the ground is Trump is
winning hearts and minds and personally I think that's good for our
country. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks. (Our elections
are Nov 5th)
Despite what the media says Trump is our better bet in this regard. The
issue is, because of democrat spending over the last 2 decades (they
have held office 12 out of the 20 years) it would take at least 2-3 republican presidential terms to stop the bleed and break even. probably another 2 terms to start lowering the debt. There is just so much waste happening that the best Trump can do in 4 years (assuming he gets into
the office again, fingers crossed) is slow down the spending. It will
take another republican president 2 more terms (8 years) to get all the
rest of the waste out of our government budget to get to 0/0 each year.
Sorry, got off topic there..
The fact is that for decades, the Republican administrations have run up
the deficits, while Democrats have reduced them.
france it is illegal for them to give away their software since it risks
outcompeting the local competition. But I have not checked this, so
caveat emptor.
I haven't done a lot of looking into this, but I have heard the same. I seriously doubt Microsoft will actually comply with this though. Teams and Office are their bread and butter and if they were to do it, it would be at a higher price tag more likely. Either Microsoft will pay France off at some point or they will threaten to pull out of France. If France uses Office and Teams in important sectors they will likely cave. It'll be interesting to look into this over the next 6 months and see what happens.
There is of course a down side to all of this, and that is that the EU is >>>> regulating it's tech sector out of existence, so all skilled
technologists, in time, will become employed by non-EU companies, since >>>> there will be no point in starting a tech company in europe, only to be >>>> at risk of high fines for the slightest mistake.
In my opinion we are starting to see that transition here in the US as
well. They are starting with the large corporations (which I think they
already have taken over) but will eventually move to the medium/ small
businesses over time. I hope it doesn't happen because then it's just evil >>> running all of us. But we'll have to see over then next couple elections >>> what happens.
Really?! This was news to me. Usually I read in european pro-business
papers, that in the US all is well, and the EU is flushed down the
drain, so it was very interesting to hear. On the other hand, lawfare
and regulatory capture is a US national sport, so perhaps the driving
force behind that are the big corporations in order to stop any
competition from developing.
Heh, The government controls the news and most of the media here. (specifically the democratic party). Facebook, Google, and Microsoft all do the Government's bidding and the only reason why Twitter stopped being a Government puppet is because Elon purchased it and kicked the Government out (government has been going after Elon ever since). I should note that our Government power is in Democrat hands right now. Democrats will deny this is happening but you can do the research and look into things beyond the surface and you can find the truth of it. This election between Kamala and Trump will decide the fate of the US. If Kamala wins the Government will shift to either a Nationalist Socialist country or a Communist Socialist country depending on certain other factors. If Trump wins we will remain a Republic Capitalist country. Despite what the media says, word on the ground is Trump is winning hearts and minds and personally I think that's good for our country. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks. (Our elections are Nov 5th)
I wonder where the next wave of tech startups will come from? Perhaps
Milei will manage to drain the swamp in Argentina, and Argentina will
become the innovation power house of the planet? Talk about something
unexpected, if that were to happen!
In my opinion, the EU will become a museum where rich tourists from the >>>> rest of the world will go to experience food and culture. There will of >>>> course be a tail of tech jobs in heavy industry, but all innovation will >>>> leave the EU if its current socialist and pro- regulation agenda
continues for long.
I fear this is coming to the US as well. "We the people" need to vote out >>> the politicians that are supporting this cause. But the issue is the
younger generations seem to want this to happen. Sadly I don't think they >>> realize how bad this is going to be for us over here but they won't
realize it until it's too late I'm afraid.
Sad to hear it. And is it still the case that neither US party has any
intention of actually lowering the debt of the country? If not, I would
imagine that it eventually will reach a level at which the credit rating
agencies cannot ignore it any longer, and that day will certainly send
shock waves throughout the global economy! =/
Despite what the media says Trump is our better bet in this regard. The issue is, because of democrat spending over the last 2 decades (they have held office 12 out of the 20 years) it would take at least 2-3 republican presidential terms to stop the bleed and break even. probably another 2 terms to start lowering the debt. There is just so much waste happening that the best Trump can do in 4 years (assuming he gets into the office again, fingers crossed) is slow down the spending. It will take another republican president 2 more terms (8 years) to get all the rest of the waste out of our government budget to get to 0/0 each year. It would also cost us a lot of social services that go to people who really don't need them. Don't get my wrong, there are legitimate cases and I believe we should take care of our people but in my opinion, we spend 30% of those services on people who actually need it and 70% on people who don't. I mean, I could get on social services right now if I wanted to and get $660 a month for free and continue working my job. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with me (and I do very well for myself financially so if someone like me can get $660 a month you know money is being wasted). If we get rid of that 70% junk spending then we'd probably cut a large portion of our spending down.
Sorry, got off topic there..
On 2024-10-13, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Oct 2024, Phillip Frabott wrote:
In terms of how much MS there is in the infra, you are 100% right. There >>>> are small initiatives here and there, for instance, München switched to >>>> libreoffice, but usually what happens, is that Microsoft bribes the
politicians with promises of an R&D center employing X 100 or 1000 people >>>> if they change back, and of course they do, since they are politicians and >>>> not open source enthusiasts.
Except, perhaps, for Venezuela. I haven't heard much news lately about
how their open-source mandate was going - is it still in effect?
Yeah I mean, MS would never "allow" it to happen. Until politicians areI think france judged that MS has to unbundle teams from Office, and in
willing to lose money, MS will continue to feed governments money to keep >>> them solidly on MS products. Which again, is where I can say that any
'speeding ticket' case that would be against MS will be quickly dismissed. >>
france it is illegal for them to give away their software since it risks
outcompeting the local competition. But I have not checked this, so
caveat emptor.
I once got my hands on a copy of Window XP N - the N stands for "No
Internet Explorer", which was a European mandate.
<snip>
In my opinion, the EU will become a museum where rich tourists from the >>>> rest of the world will go to experience food and culture. There will of >>>> course be a tail of tech jobs in heavy industry, but all innovation will >>>> leave the EU if its current socialist and pro-regulation agenda continues >>>> for long.
I fear this is coming to the US as well. "We the people" need to vote out >>> the politicians that are supporting this cause.
Who will they vote in? These days voting is like trying to decide
whether you want to be shot or stabbed.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
-- The Who
But the issue is the younger >>> generations seem to want this to happen. Sadly I don't think they realize >>> how bad this is going to be for us over here but they won't realize it
until it's too late I'm afraid.
It is sad - it's like watching drug addicts slip away.
Sad to hear it. And is it still the case that neither US party has any
intention of actually lowering the debt of the country? If not, I would
imagine that it eventually will reach a level at which the credit rating
agencies cannot ignore it any longer, and that day will certainly send
shock waves throughout the global economy! =/
I wonder whether national debt is even seen the same way as personal
debt. It certainly doesn't seem that way. If we as individuals ran
our finances the way governments run theirs, we'd be thrown in jail.
On 10/13/2024 19:47, Lars Poulsen wrote:
The fact is that for decades, the Republican administrations have run up
the deficits, while Democrats have reduced them.
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/#us-deficit-by-year
^^ I would like to point out, .GOV. It's an official government web site.
Debt totals
$1.99T - W Bush 8 years (2001-2008)
$7.29T - Obama 8 years (2009-2016)
$5.56T - Trump 4 years (2017-2020)
$5.85T - Biden 3 Years (2021-2023) [Does not include 2024 spending]
Party Debt from 2001-2023
$7.55T - Republican Presidents
$13.15T - Democrat Presidents
BTW, it saddens me that you can't find this information on your own.
On 2024-10-13, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Smart tech with explosives strapped to its back is everyone's favourite
suicide bomber if your population is not oversupplied with gullible idiots.
I don't see that supply running out anytime soon, on either side
of the fence. And politicians of all stripes are doing their best
to preserve that supply.
Still, your tech fantasies are rather interesting. I had a somewhat
more modest version of a cockroach-sized device that creeps into
meeting rooms, records incriminating evidence, and broadcasts it.
The only borderline Nazi team in this election is the Trumpist party,
which has all but promised that if they win, they are going to prosecuter their opponents, and "if you elect me, you will never have to vote
again", where as Kamala Harris a[ppears to be a typical center-right Democrat.
Yep, looks like Lars was actually the one with the wrong facts. On the
other hand, I suspect some danish influence, and given that, a leaning towards the (socialist) democrats is only natural.
I think the party that has elevated lawfare to new heights is in fact
the Democrats, so if I could vote, it would be Trump all the way.
The democrats are insane.
On 14/10/2024 10:45, D wrote:
Yep, looks like Lars was actually the one with the wrong facts. On the
other hand, I suspect some danish influence, and given that, a leaning
towards the (socialist) democrats is only natural.
I think the party that has elevated lawfare to new heights is in fact the
Democrats, so if I could vote, it would be Trump all the way.
The democrats are insane.
The problem is that the altenative - the Doonald, will weaken the USA globally by becoming isolationist.
I am a natural centre right person. But the Donald has gone too far and cost thousands of Ukrainian lives already by reneging on the terms of the USAs relationship with Ukraine.
Ukraine is not 'Europe's problem'
Russia is a global problem alonng with Iran, North Korea China and all the other totalitarian post communist or islamfascist states.
Making Russia great again is Putins dream, but if he destroys teh USAs export marlet, its the USAs problem.
Right now its the Ukraine and the Israelis at the thin end of the wedge, but it will in the end be ordinary americans, and the longer you let these dictators get away with it the harder they become to stop.
First they came for the Ukrainians
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Ukrainian
Then they came for the Israelis
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for the Europeans
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a European
Then they came for the Africans
And I did not speak out
Because I was not an African
Then they came for America
And there was no one left
To speak out for us...
The problem is that the altenative - the Doonald, will weaken the USA globally by becoming isolationist.
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:46:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The problem is that the altenative - the Doonald, will weaken the USA
globally by becoming isolationist.
It won't happen but I consider that a plus point. Neither the Ukraine or Israel are US states, let alone Haiti, Somalia, and other seflf
destructive third world states.
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:46:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:They are not self destructive.
The problem is that the altenative - the Doonald, will weaken the USA
globally by becoming isolationist.
It won't happen but I consider that a plus point. Neither the Ukraine or Israel are US states, let alone Haiti, Somalia, and other seflf
destructive third world states.
On 10/14/2024 09:55, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:46:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The problem is that the altenative - the Doonald, will weaken the USA
globally by becoming isolationist.
It won't happen but I consider that a plus point. Neither the Ukraine or
Israel are US states, let alone Haiti, Somalia, and other seflf
destructive third world states.
Israel doesn't really need our help because they kick ass anyways, and
the Ukraine Protection deal was revoked during Obama's presidency (Which again, the democrats wanted and now they are crying about it).
The US needs to do what every other country does, only get involved when
it is in our best interests. If it helps us to help the EU or some other nation
world benefit to the US needs to stop.
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/10/2024 10:45, D wrote:
Yep, looks like Lars was actually the one with the wrong facts. On
the other hand, I suspect some danish influence, and given that, a
leaning towards the (socialist) democrats is only natural.
I think the party that has elevated lawfare to new heights is in fact
the Democrats, so if I could vote, it would be Trump all the way.
The democrats are insane.
The problem is that the altenative - the Doonald, will weaken the USA
globally by becoming isolationist.
I am a natural centre right person. But the Donald has gone too far
and cost thousands of Ukrainian lives already by reneging on the terms
of the USAs relationship with Ukraine.
Ukraine is not 'Europe's problem'
Russia is a global problem alonng with Iran, North Korea China and all
the other totalitarian post communist or islamfascist states.
Making Russia great again is Putins dream, but if he destroys teh USAs
export marlet, its the USAs problem.
Right now its the Ukraine and the Israelis at the thin end of the
wedge, but it will in the end be ordinary americans, and the longer
you let these dictators get away with it the harder they become to stop.
First they came for the Ukrainians
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Ukrainian
Then they came for the Israelis
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for the Europeans
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a European
Then they came for the Africans
And I did not speak out
Because I was not an African
Then they came for America
And there was no one left
To speak out for us...
I think it is important to make a difference between what Trump says (in order to get conservative votes) and what Trump does.
Trump is smart, and he of course knows that without the EU, the US
stands alone against the world. He will of course help the EU, but most likely with far less money, and way more effectively.
That will push the EU to become more militarily integrated, which will
in turn make the world safer and more stable.
If the EU, like today, continues to suck on the US military teat, the EU
will never develop and become a liability instead of an asset.
The road forward is pretty clear and pretty easy. Russia will lose, his oligarchs will kill him, in his place, they will select someone more pro-west, so they can enjoy their playgrounds and yachts again, and then we'll continue towards prospery together with a more western oriented
russia.
Another option, if they insist on the crazy path, is to defang them, and split russia into the west, and countless little durka-durka-stans,
without weapons and resources. Those will be left to rot, and the
western half will join europe and open for business.
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:46:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The problem is that the altenative - the Doonald, will weaken the USA
globally by becoming isolationist.
It won't happen but I consider that a plus point. Neither the Ukraine or Israel are US states, let alone Haiti, Somalia, and other seflf
destructive third world states.
I think it is important to make a difference between what Trump says (inHe almost caused Ukraine to lose by holding up the budget.
order to get conservative votes) and what Trump does.
Trump is smart, and he of course knows that without the EU, the US stands
alone against the world. He will of course help the EU, but most likely
with far less money, and way more effectively.
What Trump does will be as far as Europe is concerned, is to let Russia occupy Ukraine forever.
That will push the EU to become more militarily integrated, which will inThe EU has no army navy or air force (thank god, as they are about as trustworthy and ambitious as Putin)
turn make the world safer and more stable.
The nations of Europe and beyond belong to at most NATO, and Donald lied about that.
If the EU, like today, continues to suck on the US military teat, the EUThe EU is not yet a military power.
will never develop and become a liability instead of an asset.
The road forward is pretty clear and pretty easy. Russia will lose, hisWell yes, but witholding military aid from Ukraine is not the way to achieve that.
oligarchs will kill him, in his place, they will select someone more
pro-west, so they can enjoy their playgrounds and yachts again, and then
we'll continue towards prospery together with a more western oriented
russia.
Another option, if they insist on the crazy path, is to defang them, and
split russia into the west, and countless little durka-durka-stans, without >> weapons and resources. Those will be left to rot, and the western half will >> join europe and open for business.
That may well happen too, but that is not what Trump has stated he wants, nor its it what MAGA has acted to promote.
The USA had a deal with Ukraine and it has a deal with NATO.
If it turns it back on either or both, its status as the protector of the free world disintegrates, and No European nation will support it when China comes knocking
On 14/10/2024 14:55, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:46:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:They are not self destructive.
The problem is that the altenative - the Doonald, will weaken the USA
globally by becoming isolationist.
It won't happen but I consider that a plus point. Neither the Ukraine or
Israel are US states, let alone Haiti, Somalia, and other seflf
destructive third world states.
USA is already under attack from the modern 'axis of evil' . Jealous of its power and wealth every single Russian Kleptocrat or Islamic theocrat hates and fears America, and are *actively * seeking its destruction. How many 'movements' and 'woke memes originate in Moscow or Tehran?
If you want to elect the 'Manchurian candidate' don't expect me to sympathise when the rest of the world turns its back on the USA.
That doesn't mean I support the wimpy wet Kamala. It's just that she represents slightly less direct threat to the USA and the nations of Europe, Canada, Australia, who didn't hold back when Japan fucked you over.
It's clear Trump owes Mr Putin something. And its payback time. I don't want Putin running the USA like it was Chechnya.
I don't
want Putin running the USA like it was Chechnya.
The EU has plenty. You can add up the military capacity of each
individual country. This is the integration you will see if/when the US
ramps down.
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:46:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The problem is that the altenative - the Doonald, will weaken the USA
globally by becoming isolationist.
It won't happen but I consider that a plus point. Neither the Ukraine or
Israel are US states, let alone Haiti, Somalia, and other seflf
destructive third world states.
This is the truth!
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I think it is important to make a difference between what Trump saysHe almost caused Ukraine to lose by holding up the budget.
(in order to get conservative votes) and what Trump does.
Trump is smart, and he of course knows that without the EU, the US
stands alone against the world. He will of course help the EU, but
most likely with far less money, and way more effectively.
Incorrect. They are still doing well, and it US would have backed down,
the EU would have ramped up.
What Trump does will be as far as Europe is concerned, is to let
Russia occupy Ukraine forever.
Incorrect. Trump is pro-business, and will help EU against Russia. Don't
buy the democratic rhetoric. What Trump will _not_ do however, is to
throw billions upon billions into a black hole. That is smart, and will benefit americans, and also, as I have explained, europeans, in the long term.
That will push the EU to become more militarily integrated, whichThe EU has no army navy or air force (thank god, as they are about as
will in turn make the world safer and more stable.
trustworthy and ambitious as Putin)
The EU has plenty. You can add up the military capacity of each
individual country. This is the integration you will see if/when the US
ramps down.
The EU economy is also about 15x larger than russias, and the population
is about 3x. If there's a full war, Russia will lose to badly, it will embarass them for generations to come.
Putin knows that. That is why he is yelling and screaming, and doing the minimum maximum he can out of fear of provoking europe to take action
against him.
The nations of Europe and beyond belong to at most NATO, and Donald
lied about that.
I don't know what you are talking about. Donald did however, without
being president or having any official power, make the europeans step up
with the funding to Nato. That shows how brilliant he is, and that you
should look at what Trump does or achieves, _not_ what he says. His
words are tools to create action, they are not the purpose in and of themselves.
If the EU, like today, continues to suck on the US military teat, theThe EU is not yet a military power.
EU will never develop and become a liability instead of an asset.
It is. See above.
The road forward is pretty clear and pretty easy. Russia will lose,Well yes, but witholding military aid from Ukraine is not the way to
his oligarchs will kill him, in his place, they will select someone
more pro-west, so they can enjoy their playgrounds and yachts again,
and then we'll continue towards prospery together with a more western
oriented russia.
achieve that.
It is. Let europe and ukraine handle that.
Another option, if they insist on the crazy path, is to defang them,
and split russia into the west, and countless little
durka-durka-stans, without weapons and resources. Those will be left
to rot, and the western half will join europe and open for business.
That may well happen too, but that is not what Trump has stated he
wants, nor its it what MAGA has acted to promote.
What Trump is irrelevant, what he does is relevant.
The USA had a deal with Ukraine and it has a deal with NATO.
If it turns it back on either or both, its status as the protector of
the free world disintegrates, and No European nation will support it
when China comes knocking
Incorrect. The US does not have any obligations to play world police.
Trump, playing this the way he does, will stimulate EU to grow and
develop into a second world police. Then there will be two, instead of
today, only one, which is the US. Time for EU to pay its fair share and
stop free riding on the US. This is only elementary logic and common
sense.
They have wanted that the past 50 years, and have not achieved anything.
That testifies to the incompetence and weakness of the enemy, and the brilliance of the US, _despite_ the democrat party.
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 18:39:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I don't
want Putin running the USA like it was Chechnya.
Better Putin than Soros.
On 14/10/2024 22:29, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 18:39:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I don't
want Putin running the USA like it was Chechnya.
Better Putin than Soros.
Phew. That you could say that is the most frightening thing I have
heard.
On 14/10/2024 20:48, D wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:46:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The problem is that the altenative - the Doonald, will weaken the USA >>>> globally by becoming isolationist.
It won't happen but I consider that a plus point. Neither the Ukraine or >>> Israel are US states, let alone Haiti, Somalia, and other seflf
destructive third world states.
This is the truth!
It is also extremely short sighted.
And the USA is not part of Putin's Empire - yet.
How *much* does the Orange Jesus owe Mr Vlad?
More, or less, than Barack Obama?
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 18:39:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I don't
want Putin running the USA like it was Chechnya.
Better Putin than Soros.
On 14/10/2024 20:57, D wrote:
They have wanted that the past 50 years, and have not achieved anything.
That testifies to the incompetence and weakness of the enemy, and the
brilliance of the US, _despite_ the democrat party.
You poor sucker. You have no idea.
with far less money, and way more effectively.He almost caused Ukraine to lose by holding up the budget.
Incorrect. They are still doing well, and it US would have backed down,
the EU would have ramped up.
What with? It has no exonomy?
Its just a parasitic bureaucracy.
It does notr set Eripean natins foreign policy. It juts pretends thaqt it does.
What Trump does will be as far as Europe is concerned, is to let Russia >>> occupy Ukraine forever.
Incorrect. Trump is pro-business, and will help EU against Russia. Don't
buy the democratic rhetoric. What Trump will _not_ do however, is to
throw billions upon billions into a black hole. That is smart, and will
benefit americans, and also, as I have explained, europeans, in the long
term.
*shakes head sadly*
He is so business that when Putin lent him....well it was more than Hunter Biden anyway...
He is so business that he wants to forgoe the opportunity to actually get billions in debt for defunct obsolescent hardware, he would rather write it off than sell it to Ukraine?
Wake up! ALL of your politicians are working for someone. That's how they got there.
Dont be silly. No European nation wants to put its military under EU control. That's why they are in NATO.That will push the EU to become more militarily integrated, which will in >>>> turn make the world safer and more stable.The EU has no army navy or air force (thank god, as they are about as
trustworthy and ambitious as Putin)
The EU has plenty. You can add up the military capacity of each
individual country. This is the integration you will see if/when the US
ramps down.
The EU economy is also about 15x larger than russias, and the population
is about 3x. If there's a full war, Russia will lose to badly, it will
embarass them for generations to come.
The EU HAS NO ECONOMY. It is not the United states of Europe. It is nearer the United socialist Soviet republic of Europe. A remote entity trying to recreate the USSR by having a series of puppet states.
Putin knows that. That is why he is yelling and screaming, and doing the
minimum maximum he can out of fear of provoking europe to take action
against him.
Europe is a continent. It can't take action.
The EU is a bureaucracy it has nothing to take action with
Only the sovereign nations of Europe can take action, and they are. FAR more than the USA
Denmark and Estonia have contributed the most. Per capita. But they are small countries.
The USA ranks 17th in net contributions per citizen. A miserly contribution. Even Belgium has done better,
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/
Oh FFFS. I cant deal with another cult member tonight.The nations of Europe and beyond belong to at most NATO, and Donald lied >>> about that.
I don't know what you are talking about. Donald did however, without
being president or having any official power, make the europeans step up
with the funding to Nato. That shows how brilliant he is, and that you
should look at what Trump does or achieves, _not_ what he says. His
words are tools to create action, they are not the purpose in and of
themselves.
Donald is not some superman. He is just another egotistical little shit with his eye on the main chance. In the end no better than Obama.
It is not
If the EU, like today, continues to suck on the US military teat, the EU >>>> will never develop and become a liability instead of an asset.The EU is not yet a military power.
It is. See above.
"The European army or EU army are terms for a hypothetical army of the European Union which would supersede the Common Security and Defence Policy and would go beyond the proposed European Defence Union. Currently, there is no such army, and defence is a matter for the member states. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army
The road forward is pretty clear and pretty easy. Russia will lose, his >>>> oligarchs will kill him, in his place, they will select someone moreWell yes, but witholding military aid from Ukraine is not the way to
pro-west, so they can enjoy their playgrounds and yachts again, and then >>>> we'll continue towards prospery together with a more western oriented
russia.
achieve that.
It is. Let europe and ukraine handle that.
Europe dioesnt exist as a country. They are already pulling way above their weight.
Another option, if they insist on the crazy path, is to defang them, and >>>> split russia into the west, and countless little durka-durka-stans,
without weapons and resources. Those will be left to rot, and the western >>>> half will join europe and open for business.
That may well happen too, but that is not what Trump has stated he wants, >>> nor its it what MAGA has acted to promote.
What Trump is irrelevant, what he does is relevant.
Exatcly. He nearly allowed Russia to win by stalling arms that had already been promised, a dirty political truck worthy of a democrat.
Leaving Ukraine in the shit.
The USA had a deal with Ukraine and it has a deal with NATO.
If it turns it back on either or both, its status as the protector of the >>> free world disintegrates, and No European nation will support it when
China comes knocking
Incorrect. The US does not have any obligations to play world police.
I never said that it did.
But that is it status, deserved or not,
Trump, playing this the way he does, will stimulate EU to grow and
develop into a second world police. Then there will be two, instead of
today, only one, which is the US. Time for EU to pay its fair share and
stop free riding on the US. This is only elementary logic and common
sense.
Christ on a bike. The EU are the second biggest threat to world peace after the Russin/Ianian NORK axis.
That last thing you want is a military power run by a bunch of communist and ex communist apparatchiks.
You are woefully ill informed.
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/10/2024 20:48, D wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:46:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The problem is that the altenative - the Doonald, will weaken the USA >>>>> globally by becoming isolationist.
It won't happen but I consider that a plus point. Neither the
Ukraine or
Israel are US states, let alone Haiti, Somalia, and other seflf
destructive third world states.
This is the truth!
It is also extremely short sighted.
And the USA is not part of Putin's Empire - yet.
How *much* does the Orange Jesus owe Mr Vlad?
More, or less, than Barack Obama?
Proof please. Then we talk.
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 18:39:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I don't
want Putin running the USA like it was Chechnya.
Better Putin than Soros.
I have compared them both scientifically, and it is actualyl proven that Soros society would be a nicer one, than Putins. If you step away from
the main cities in russia, the people in the country side live under
close to medieval living conditions that would make all americans revolt.
That's what you get with a kleptocracy and an authoritarian system built
to exploit the people and enrich its leaders.
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 18:39:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I don't
want Putin running the USA like it was Chechnya.
Better Putin than Soros.
I have compared them both scientifically, and it is actualyl proven that Soros society would be a nicer one, than Putins. If you step away from
the main cities in russia, the people in the country side live under
close to medieval living conditions that would make all americans revolt.
That's what you get with a kleptocracy and an authoritarian system built
to exploit the people and enrich its leaders.
On Tue, 15 Oct 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
with far less money, and way more effectively.He almost caused Ukraine to lose by holding up the budget.
Incorrect. They are still doing well, and it US would have backed down,
the EU would have ramped up.
What with? It has no exonomy?
Its just a parasitic bureaucracy.
It does notr set Eripean natins foreign policy. It juts pretends thaqt
it does.
The european economy is $26.64 trillion (PPP). This is proven.
Exactly. The democrats are the true evil.
Wake up! ALL of your politicians are working for someone. That's how
they got there.
Irrelevant. We look at actions.
Dont be silly. No European nation wants to put its military under EU
control.
That's why they are in NATO.
Europes countries can coordinate without the central EU, proven by joint
Nato
military exercises, and joint exercises done outside of Nato, like
between sweden and finland.
You seem to know very little of europe and how europe works. Are you
based in the US?
The EU economy is also about 15x larger than russias, and the population >>> is about 3x. If there's a full war, Russia will lose to badly, it will
embarass them for generations to come.
The EU HAS NO ECONOMY. It is not the United states of Europe. It is
nearer the United socialist Soviet republic of Europe. A remote entity
trying to recreate the USSR by having a series of puppet states.
$26.64 trillion (PPP) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union .
Proven.
Putin knows that. That is why he is yelling and screaming, and doing the >>> minimum maximum he can out of fear of provoking europe to take action
against him.
Europe is a continent. It can't take action.
The EU is a bureaucracy it has nothing to take action with
Europe has countries which can take action. I will not write every
single individual country in every single post due to your uncharitable
nit picking.
I do not think you are so stupid as to not be able to understand my
point with me having to write each country individually?
Only the sovereign nations of Europe can take action, and they are.
FAR more than the USA
Thank you. Proven.
Denmark and Estonia have contributed the most. Per capita. But they
are small countries.
See above. Europe has a common market.
The USA ranks 17th in net contributions per citizen. A miserly
contribution.
Even Belgium has done better,
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/
Irrelevant.
Donald is not some superman. He is just another egotistical little
shit with his eye on the main chance. In the end no better than Obama.
Do you have Trump Derangement Syndrome? I think it is stopping you from perceiving the world correctly.
It is. See above. Read carefully and repent.
"The European army or EU army are terms for a hypothetical army of the
European Union which would supersede the Common Security and Defence
Policy and would go beyond the proposed European Defence Union.
Currently, there is no such army, and defence is a matter for the
member states. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army
Irrelevant.
Europe dioesnt exist as a country. They are already pulling way above
their weight.
Irrelevant see above.
Leaving Ukraine in the shit.
No, he is training europe to grow up and take responsibility. That is actually brilliant.
You are woefully ill informed.
You are ill informed and it has been proven.
On 10/15/24 09:09, D wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 18:39:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I don't
want Putin running the USA like it was Chechnya.
Better Putin than Soros.
I have compared them both scientifically, and it is actualyl proven
that Soros society would be a nicer one, than Putins. If you step away
from the main cities in russia, the people in the country side live
under close to medieval living conditions that would make all
americans revolt.
That is an unfair comparison. Putin inherited a country on the brink of collapse. He stabilised it and produced reasonable growth. Many of his problems have been caused by external pressures, which do not exist for
the US. Not least of which is USA enforced sanctions.
Experience in Africa show us that trying to impose liberal democracy on countries, without the social framework to handle it, can be
catastrophic. Yes, Putin is a tyrant, but I suspect, currently, Russia
needs a tyrant.
That's what you get with a kleptocracy and an authoritarian system
built to exploit the people and enrich its leaders.
You'll have to spell out if you are talking about the USA or Russia.
Today I was reading about Cryptocurrency billionaires trying to
manipulate the US democratic process to remove a senator seeking to
regulate them.
FWIW, I don't understand why Soros is presented as an arch villain.
As we have done with North Korea. Its a pimple we need not burst,
because ultimately its an entirely self contained shithole that
doesn't impact anywhere else and it serves as an example of what
happens when you let leaders become divine beings and give them
godlike powers.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
As we have done with North Korea. Its a pimple we need not burst,
because ultimately its an entirely self contained shithole that
doesn't impact anywhere else and it serves as an example of what
happens when you let leaders become divine beings and give them
godlike powers.
North Korea does impact the rest of the world - it’s behind a lot of hacking campaigns, which we pay for in various ways (ransoms, theft, post-attack cleanup, etc).
say, letting that continue is much cheaper than military intervention.
In contrast sending old NATO kit to Ukraine is practically free l-)
FWIW, I don't understand why Soros is presented as an arch villain.
On 15/10/2024 09:09, D wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 18:39:25 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I don't
want Putin running the USA like it was Chechnya.
Better Putin than Soros.
I have compared them both scientifically, and it is actualyl proven that
Soros society would be a nicer one, than Putins. If you step away from the >> main cities in russia, the people in the country side live under close to
medieval living conditions that would make all americans revolt.
That's what you get with a kleptocracy and an authoritarian system built to >> exploit the people and enrich its leaders.
Phew. I thought for a moment I was going mad.
Exactly. I think there is a tendency - an understandable tendency, for people living cushioned in the richest society in the world, and not needing to be really aware in any way in their daily lives about anything beyond its shores - to think that because they have identified deep flaws in their own government, that some one else's would in fact be better.
Let me tell you there is no such things as a corruption free government anywhere in the world, and the aim of most government is to be as corrupt and undemocratic as possible, because politicians are not saints, and anyone who thinks they are needs urgent medical attention.
I have expressed this many times as:
"All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is fully understood."
So the Liberals pretend to be the good guys on the moral high ground, to get the votes that enable them to satisfy the demands of the people with deep pockets like the globalist corporates.
Whilst the Donald pretends to be the redneck dude with the traditional values of bottom slapping and pussy grabbing individualism, in order that *he* can get into power and get paid off by the FSB leper funds from
Moscow.
So its not he redneck shit that I object to. Far from it. Lotta redneck in me. It's the FSB
I loathe the liberal moral snobbery and the wokery and Marxism inherent in it, but having Putin run your country instead is not the solution.
Its not a question of getting corrupt assholes out of politics, That is impossible. The point about a democracy is that you can get rid of a Biden, Or Trump, Or Obama.
The point about Putin, is that he gets rid of you. Think Al Capone heading up the white house.
On 15/10/2024 09:19, D wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
with far less money, and way more effectively.He almost caused Ukraine to lose by holding up the budget.
Incorrect. They are still doing well, and it US would have backed down, >>>> the EU would have ramped up.
What with? It has no exonomy?
Its just a parasitic bureaucracy.
It does notr set Eripean natins foreign policy. It juts pretends thaqt it >>> does.
The european economy is $26.64 trillion (PPP). This is proven.
No, that is the sum of the econimies of thge natuions tha inhabit o the continent of Europe. One of which is Russsia
It us not e economy of the EU.
Exactly. The democrats are the true evil.
No. The true evil is greed, lust for power and fear of loss of privilege.
If you think Liberal versus Republican is evil versus good, you are already a controlled useful idiot
All your politicians are belong to us.
Wake up! ALL of your politicians are working for someone. That's how they >>> got there.
Irrelevant. We look at actions.
No, it is clear you do not. Even if you think you do. Mike Johnson absolutely vilolated every norm of honorable and decent behaviors and cost thousands of lives by the disgraceful actions he took, that Trump supported.
Exactly my point. EU doesnt have a military, and its members don't want it to.Dont be silly. No European nation wants to put its military under EU
control.
That's why they are in NATO.
Europes countries can coordinate without the central EU, proven by joint
Nato
military exercises, and joint exercises done outside of Nato, like
between sweden and finland.
EU is compulsory, NATO is voluntary.
You seem to know very little of europe and how europe works. Are you
based in the US?
That was my question to you.
The EU economy is also about 15x larger than russias, and the population >>>> is about 3x. If there's a full war, Russia will lose to badly, it will >>>> embarass them for generations to come.
The EU HAS NO ECONOMY. It is not the United states of Europe. It is nearer >>> the United socialist Soviet republic of Europe. A remote entity trying to >>> recreate the USSR by having a series of puppet states.
$26.64 trillion (PPP)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union .
Proven.
From that refeernce The 'economy of the European Union' is the joint economy of the member states of the European Union¨
I.e. it doesnt belong to the Union. And the Union has little effect on how it is generated.
Youu seem to have no understanbding of European politics
But it makes a huge difference. Fir example Hungary. Slovenia and almost Germany have decided to limit Ukrainian support. Other counytries who know Vlad, like Poland and Estonia, have thrown huge resources into the pot.
Putin knows that. That is why he is yelling and screaming, and doing the >>>> minimum maximum he can out of fear of provoking europe to take action
against him.
Europe is a continent. It can't take action.
The EU is a bureaucracy it has nothing to take action with
Europe has countries which can take action. I will not write every
single individual country in every single post due to your uncharitable
nit picking.
The EU itself has done the square root of fuck all. A bit of humanitarian aid.
What the EU did manage to do was co-ordinate and prepare a set of sanctions that are slow but effective.
I do not think you are so stupid as to not be able to understand myBecause there *is* no point without mentioning each country individually.
point with me having to write each country individually?
The Czechs organised world wide black/grey market purchase of artillery shells from unnamed sources using money donated by various other countries, to save the day when Mike Johnson fucked Ukraine at Russias behest by blocking the support of the whole of the USA.
Viktor Orban in Hungary has tried the same, but the EU is not the USA (although it would love to be) it doesn't represent the people of Europe, They have national governments. It doesn't control the defence of Europe, Individual nations in, or out of NATO or the EU, do that themselves . It doesn't even control the economies of Europe, although it tries to.
It doesn't even have a single currency, though it wants to.
Only the sovereign nations of Europe can take action, and they are. FAR
more than the USA
Thank you. Proven.
Denmark and Estonia have contributed the most. Per capita. But they are
small countries.
See above. Europe has a common market.
The USA ranks 17th in net contributions per citizen. A miserly
contribution.
Even Belgium has done better,
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/
Irrelevant.
Nto in te slightest.
Europe is contributing far far more per person to this war than the miserly USA is.
Donald is not some superman. He is just another egotistical little shit
with his eye on the main chance. In the end no better than Obama.
Do you have Trump Derangement Syndrome? I think it is stopping you from
perceiving the world correctly.
Better put yiur shades on an not stand behind him when he driops his pants
It is. See above. Read carefully and repent.
All your examples show exactlyt why the EU is not a nation or a miultray power as you seem to think it is.
Irrelevant.
"The European army or EU army are terms for a hypothetical army of the
European Union which would supersede the Common Security and Defence
Policy and would go beyond the proposed European Defence Union. Currently, >>> there is no such army, and defence is a matter for the member states. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_army
Irrelevant.
Totally relevant
Irrelevant.Europe dioesnt exist as a country. They are already pulling way above
their weight.
Irrelevant see above.
Realebant
Leaving Ukraine in the shit.
No, he is training europe to grow up and take responsibility. That is
actually brilliant.
It us Europe who is taking responsibility and the Donald who is deliberately absolving himself of it preferring to simply parraot Russian propagandas (as you are)
You are woefully ill informed.
You are ill informed and it has been proven.
Nope, It is clear you are either trolling, a trump supporter who has replaced reason with religious faith, or in Putins pocket
You don't understand the politics of Russia, or of Ukraine, or of Europe or of the EU, how any of their economies are run, how their military are organised or who ultimately controls it.
In fact you don't even seem to understand the politics of the USA. Except in a very childlike and unsophisticated way.
Hint. The guys in the white hats are the baddies too, sometimes.
This is the truth. Soros is preferable to Putin. With Putin, society is reduced to a medieval fiefdom with serfs, nobility and Tsar. Serfs will
be trampled upon and killed when expedient.
On 15/10/2024 09:10, D wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/10/2024 20:48, D wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:46:03 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The problem is that the altenative - the Doonald, will weaken the >>>>>> USA
globally by becoming isolationist.
It won't happen but I consider that a plus point. Neither the
Ukraine or
Israel are US states, let alone Haiti, Somalia, and other seflf
destructive third world states.
This is the truth!
It is also extremely short sighted.
And the USA is not part of Putin's Empire - yet.
How *much* does the Orange Jesus owe Mr Vlad?
More, or less, than Barack Obama?
Proof please. Then we talk.
Er. a question doesn't have a 'proof'
Why would Putin and his FSB chums *not* funnel funds/blackmail/otherwise compromise/ to affect, support or purchase politicians in other nations
in order to shape their political processes to suit Russian needs?
The CIA does *exactly* that. I am sure MI5 does. I would be upset if
they did not.
We saw as blatant and disgraceful an attempt by the Speaker of your
House to utterly disrupt the USAs political process in favour of Russia
as we did in OUR house to favour the European Union.
Why this naive need to believe that you have finally found the One True Incorruptible politician who is really on your side?
Bless!
We have a government website called 'they work for you'
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/
Do they work for us? Do they fuck!
In terms of what motivates a politician, the *last* people they are
working for is you.
Only very rarely does someone with some idea of what 'national interest' *really* means turn up, and they are regarded by their fellow
politicians as extremely dangerous people.
Whatever else he may be, Trump is certainly beholden to Putin. So too
via Hunter, may have been Joe Biden.
I think I read somewhere that the *majority* of politicians in the main German political party had all been to Russia on expense paid trips, and
no doubt entertained by athletic 'Natashas' in the absence of their
stolid German wives...
This is how the world works.
Democracy us about sacking the worst before they can do as much damage
to your country as Putin has done to Russia.
On Tue, 15 Oct 2024 22:24:22 +0200, D wrote:
This is the truth. Soros is preferable to Putin. With Putin, society is
reduced to a medieval fiefdom with serfs, nobility and Tsar. Serfs will
be trampled upon and killed when expedient.
And what will a Soros backed society be? Thralls will be thralls. In
modern society they aren't owned. It was recognized it is more economic to let the thralls provide their own sustenance rather than having to provide for them., You left out the karls, or freemen, They were the craftsmen, merchants, and other necessary functionaries. Then there were the jarls
and the king.
That echoes the Laws of Manu that help Indian society together for
centuries. They did have a finer distinction between the brahmins and the kshatriya, warriors and administrators.
That's the reality, dress it up with 'equality' and other phantoms as you will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D77dbv-xNfE
"And you think you're so clever, classless, and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see"
John Lennon
<snip>
Well, in all fairness, I said better with Soros than Putin, but I agree
that it won't be a utopia. ;)
D wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
<snip>
Well, in all fairness, I said better with Soros than Putin, but I agree
that it won't be a utopia. ;)
The only Utopia is sitting in front of a Linux box writing code. :-)
My mother was always telling me this:
Fortunately at least this practice is illegal in the EU, so there they
cannot do this.
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