So the upgrade took me 45 minutes, and the only modification I needed to
do was to update my midnight commander config file, because apparently someone in the project decided on a new config format between version 3
and version 4.
As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux
when the holiday starts.
... my yearly tradition is to do multiple full system backup of
my workstation and server this time a year.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 22:04:35 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:
... my yearly tradition is to do multiple full system backup of my
workstation and server this time a year.
The only things I consider crucial to back up are my own work. I don?t
bother backing up OS installations, apart from the contents of /etc.
Yes, that is what I do, backup data, static data dirs with various OS
Config Dirs.
On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 22:04:35 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:
... my yearly tradition is to do multiple full system backup of
my workstation and server this time a year.
The only things I consider crucial to back up are my own work. I don?t
bother backing up OS installations, apart from the contents of /etc.
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 00:23:43 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2024 22:04:35 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:
... my yearly tradition is to do multiple full system backup of my
workstation and server this time a year.
The only things I consider crucial to back up are my own work. I don?t
bother backing up OS installations, apart from the contents of /etc.
Yes, that is what I do, backup data, static data dirs with various OS
Config Dirs.
And here’s another tip: before modifying anything in /etc, I try to make
a backup copy with the suffix “-orig” attached. That way, it’s easy to find all the places I’ve customized the config, with a simple command
like
find /etc -iname \*-orig
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 00:27:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vkcv50$1f4ve$2@dont-email.me>:
And here’s another tip: before modifying anything in /etc, I try to
make a backup copy with the suffix “-orig” attached. That way, it’s
easy to find all the places I’ve customized the config, with a simple
command like
find /etc -iname \*-orig
Or you could:
# mkdir RCS ...
On 24 Dec 2024 02:08:42 GMT, vallor wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 00:27:12 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <vkcv50$1f4ve$2@dont-email.me>:
And here’s another tip: before modifying anything in /etc, I try to
make a backup copy with the suffix “-orig” attached. That way, it’s >>> easy to find all the places I’ve customized the config, with a simple
command like
find /etc -iname \*-orig
Or you could:
# mkdir RCS ...
Some people use Git. Why be satisfied with half-measures?
rcs isn't a "half-measure" -- it's a simpler measure.
As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a
long time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.
Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my dot files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to.
Even my compiled programs such as alpine, leafnode and possibly one or
two more, and my python invoicing application, could just be moved and
worked right away.
So the upgrade took me 45 minutes, and the only modification I needed to
do was to update my midnight commander config file, because apparently someone in the project decided on a new config format between version 3
and version 4.
Impressive!
rcs isn't a "half-measure" -- it's a simpler measure.
But by all means, use git:
1) cd /etc
2) git init
3) [...]
4) Profit!
On 2024-12-23 22:21, D wrote:
So the upgrade took me 45 minutes, and the only modification I needed to do >> was to update my midnight commander config file, because apparently someone >> in the project decided on a new config format between version 3 and version >> 4.
Version 4 is old. I have 4.8.27, and my distribution is old.
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux
when the holiday starts.
Interesting, my yearly tradition is to do multiple full
system backup of my workstation and server this time a year.
Two for "off-site" and a couple for home :)
On 12/23/24 4:21 PM, D wrote:
As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a long
time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.
Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my dot
files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to.
Even my compiled programs such as alpine, leafnode and possibly one or two >> more, and my python invoicing application, could just be moved and worked
right away.
So the upgrade took me 45 minutes, and the only modification I needed to do >> was to update my midnight commander config file, because apparently someone >> in the project decided on a new config format between version 3 and version >> 4.
Impressive!
What ? WHAT ??? An actual LINUX question ???!!! :-)
Me, I just generally avoid serious kernel upgrades ...
just the usual auto-upgrades until I feel it's time
to jump up two or three whole distro versions. It's
only 'home use' now, so I'm not so worried about
Vlad and Xi.
Alas most of my stuff is Deb based, and WORM was
NOT encouraging - too 'Canonical' now. DO have
some Arch/Fedora based boxes though ... may just
go straight Fedora for awhile ........
DID love OpenSUSE - but now it's kinda trapped in
the IBM/RHEL vortex. Don't wanna be an unpaid
beta-tester for IBM.
# mkdir RCS
# ci -w(your username) -l -d (filename)
rcs, the revision control system, is lightweight and easy to
handle. You can diff your files with rcsdiff.
Me, I just generally avoid serious kernel upgrades ...
just the usual auto-upgrades until I feel it's time to jump up two or
three whole distro versions. It's only 'home use' now, so I'm not so
worried about Vlad and Xi.
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
On 12/23/24 4:21 PM, D wrote:
As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a
long time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.
Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my
dot files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to. >>>
Even my compiled programs such as alpine, leafnode and possibly one
or two more, and my python invoicing application, could just be moved
and worked right away.
So the upgrade took me 45 minutes, and the only modification I needed
to do was to update my midnight commander config file, because
apparently someone in the project decided on a new config format
between version 3 and version 4.
Impressive!
What ? WHAT ??? An actual LINUX question ???!!! :-)
Apologies!
Me, I just generally avoid serious kernel upgrades ...
just the usual auto-upgrades until I feel it's time
to jump up two or three whole distro versions. It's
only 'home use' now, so I'm not so worried about
Vlad and Xi.
Same here + the company web server, but it only has two ports open to
the net, so nothing to worry about there.
Then I have my colleague who runs some hosting, and I actually have no
idea what he runs. Since he is responsible, he gets free choice as long
as it's not windows or kubernetes, and those rules he has followed.
Alas most of my stuff is Deb based, and WORM was
NOT encouraging - too 'Canonical' now. DO have
some Arch/Fedora based boxes though ... may just
go straight Fedora for awhile ........
DID love OpenSUSE - but now it's kinda trapped in
the IBM/RHEL vortex. Don't wanna be an unpaid
beta-tester for IBM.
Yes, opensuse has served me well for at least a decade if not more. But
I've heard rumours they will stop with the leap distribution and do some
kind of rootless, or rolling release stuff _only_. I do not like it! I
want stability and not sand shifting under my feet.
So if/when they disappear, I'm looking at FreeBSD to replace it, alternatively possibly debian or slckware. We'll see!
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 01:31:38 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Me, I just generally avoid serious kernel upgrades ...
just the usual auto-upgrades until I feel it's time to jump up two or
three whole distro versions. It's only 'home use' now, so I'm not so
worried about Vlad and Xi.
The Fedora box pulls down kernels frequently and is usually only a minor version or two behind the latest. The Ubuntu box is still 6.8.0. They both work fine for anything I do.
Same here + the company web server, but it only has two ports open to the
net, so nothing to worry about there.
Then I have my colleague who runs some hosting, and I actually have no idea >> what he runs. Since he is responsible, he gets free choice as long as it's >> not windows or kubernetes, and those rules he has followed.
Linux is pretty damned secure - so keeping up with
the very latest updates (unless it's a busy busy
outward-facing server) is usually not so critical.
Kernel 6.x has some added goodies over 4.x, but
it's not THAT much "improved".
Alas most of my stuff is Deb based, and WORM was
NOT encouraging - too 'Canonical' now. DO have
some Arch/Fedora based boxes though ... may just
go straight Fedora for awhile ........
DID love OpenSUSE - but now it's kinda trapped in
the IBM/RHEL vortex. Don't wanna be an unpaid
beta-tester for IBM.
Yes, opensuse has served me well for at least a decade if not more. But
I've heard rumours they will stop with the leap distribution and do some
kind of rootless, or rolling release stuff _only_. I do not like it! I want >> stability and not sand shifting under my feet.
There's much to be said for solid 'releases'.
"Rolling" WORKS of course, but it subtly alters the
landscape over short time-scales. Updates also use
a lot of bandwidth - almost the entire distro - for
even the smallest additions.
DID get Tumbleweed to work on a Pi4 ... but it
wasn't very snappy even using lighter desktops.
So if/when they disappear, I'm looking at FreeBSD to replace it,
alternatively possibly debian or slckware. We'll see!
FreeBSD ain't terrible. Depends on your needs however.
One of my biggest gripes with the BSDs is that their
drivers tend to be YEARS behind.
Despite bragging, never really got OpenBSD to install
super-clean. It's also kinda too security anal. For
SOME applications though that may be good.
DragonFly is OK ... forked from Free4 ... has its own
odd file system however.
You MIGHT want to look at OpenIndiana. Again a bit
odd, but it works.
In any case, Linux is NOT the alpha and omega of *IX
systems.
As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a long time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.
Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my dot files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to.
On 12/24/24 2:21 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 01:31:38 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Me, I just generally avoid serious kernel upgrades ...
just the usual auto-upgrades until I feel it's time to jump up two or >>> three whole distro versions. It's only 'home use' now, so I'm not so >>> worried about Vlad and Xi.
The Fedora box pulls down kernels frequently and is usually only a minor
version or two behind the latest. The Ubuntu box is still 6.8.0. They both >> work fine for anything I do.
Zactly ... ordinary upgrades almost always get it done.
Again though, a busy outwards-facing server, some of
those point upgrades MAY be valuable.
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a long
time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.
Where practical I prefer to clone the drive and upgrade the clone,
then work on the issues while using the old OS on the original
drive and finally clone the upgrade drive over when everything's
working right (after doing a backup of the old one just in case I
was wrong). So there's no deadline as such, just the annoyance of
needing to note when new software is installed during use so the
same can be done on the upgrade drive.
Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my dot
files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to.
I often have trouble with things getting unintentionally
uninstalled.
On Wed, 25 Dec 2024 02:15:44 -0500, "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote in <BcucnUKMhO-9LPb6nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@earthlink.com>:
On 12/24/24 2:21 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2024 01:31:38 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
Me, I just generally avoid serious kernel upgrades ...
just the usual auto-upgrades until I feel it's time to jump up two or >>>> three whole distro versions. It's only 'home use' now, so I'm not so >>>> worried about Vlad and Xi.
The Fedora box pulls down kernels frequently and is usually only a minor >>> version or two behind the latest. The Ubuntu box is still 6.8.0. They both >>> work fine for anything I do.
Zactly ... ordinary upgrades almost always get it done.
Again though, a busy outwards-facing server, some of
those point upgrades MAY be valuable.
I remembered this one:
"EXT4 Has A Very Nice Performance Optimization For Linux 6.11"
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-6.11-EXT4
On Wed, 26 Dec 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a
long
time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.
Where practical I prefer to clone the drive and upgrade the clone,
then work on the issues while using the old OS on the original
Way to advanced for my humble infrastructure. ;) But online and in the hosting environment, snapshots are very convenient when doing any big changes. Actually, I do have btrfs on my opensuse, so when doing any upgrades, it does take a snapshot, so I do have the option of rolling
back to the last good snapshot. Come to think of it, I've done it once
with great success! =)
drive and finally clone the upgrade drive over when everything's
working right (after doing a backup of the old one just in case I
was wrong). So there's no deadline as such, just the annoyance of
needing to note when new software is installed during use so the
same can be done on the upgrade drive.
Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my dot
files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to.
I often have trouble with things getting unintentionally
uninstalled.
Strangely enough, everything survived and was upgraded after the OS
upgrade. Opensuse is a true ninja! I do not understand why not more
people use it in production. I suspect that it is one distro that will disappear within the next 10 years or so, as SUSE gets more and more mismanaged.
The death of OpenSUSE is that it's part of the IBM/RHEL
vortex now, just like CentOS. Using it, you're basically
an unpaid beta tester for IBM. Eventually they won't need
that so much - and that entire distro family will just
go away.
On 2024-12-26, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
The death of OpenSUSE is that it's part of the IBM/RHEL vortex now,
just like CentOS. Using it, you're basically an unpaid beta tester
for IBM. Eventually they won't need that so much - and that entire
distro family will just go away.
Are you saying that RedHat has bought SUSE?
I see no reference to this in the Wikipedia articles about SuSE and
openSUSE.
Are you saying that RedHat has bought SUSE?
On 12/25/24 5:08 PM, D wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2024, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
As part of my christmas tradition, I always upgrade my linux when the
holiday starts. The reason is that if something goes wrong, I have a long >>>> time to fix it, without anything work related getting in the way.
Where practical I prefer to clone the drive and upgrade the clone,
then work on the issues while using the old OS on the original
Way to advanced for my humble infrastructure. ;) But online and in the
hosting environment, snapshots are very convenient when doing any big
changes. Actually, I do have btrfs on my opensuse, so when doing any
upgrades, it does take a snapshot, so I do have the option of rolling back >> to the last good snapshot. Come to think of it, I've done it once with
great success! =)
drive and finally clone the upgrade drive over when everything's
working right (after doing a backup of the old one just in case I
was wrong). So there's no deadline as such, just the annoyance of
needing to note when new software is installed during use so the
same can be done on the upgrade drive.
Every year, I am equally surprised when things just work. I move my dot >>>> files, and all application are there, with the settings I'm used to.
I often have trouble with things getting unintentionally
uninstalled.
Strangely enough, everything survived and was upgraded after the OS
upgrade. Opensuse is a true ninja! I do not understand why not more people >> use it in production. I suspect that it is one distro that will disappear
within the next 10 years or so, as SUSE gets more and more mismanaged.
The death of OpenSUSE is that it's part of the IBM/RHEL
vortex now, just like CentOS. Using it, you're basically
an unpaid beta tester for IBM. Eventually they won't need
that so much - and that entire distro family will just
go away.
Hmm ... time for a "MOREOpenSUSE" fork ... it really is a
very good, useful, helpful distro. Used it for a LONG
time for both workstations and servers.
Debian WAS good - but now it's gone way too 'Canonical'
for no good reasons whatsoever except to cause problems.
A few forks like Devuan may still be OK for now.
Arch derivs and a few of the BSDs may be your future.
Just downloaded the latest 'Dragonfly' yesterday. I'll
make a VM out of it for experimental purposes. The
biggest BSD prob these days is that the driver database
tends to run years behind ... making them better for
servers with boring standard hardware.
On 2024-12-26, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
The death of OpenSUSE is that it's part of the IBM/RHEL
vortex now, just like CentOS. Using it, you're basically
an unpaid beta tester for IBM. Eventually they won't need
that so much - and that entire distro family will just
go away.
Are you saying that RedHat has bought SUSE?
I see no reference to this in the Wikipedia articles about SuSE and
openSUSE.
Or do you just mean that SUSE uses RPM packaging like RedHat
distributions do?
On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 03:40:38 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2024-12-26, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
The death of OpenSUSE is that it's part of the IBM/RHEL vortex now,
just like CentOS. Using it, you're basically an unpaid beta tester
for IBM. Eventually they won't need that so much - and that entire
distro family will just go away.
Are you saying that RedHat has bought SUSE?
I see no reference to this in the Wikipedia articles about SuSE and
openSUSE.
It's hard to keep track of the shell game from Novell to Attachmate to MicroFocus but I believe EQT AB has it now, at least the Enterprise.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/german-software-firm-suse-be-taken- private-by-eqt-16-euros-per-share-2023-08-17/
I don't know if OpenSUSE is upstream of SLE like Rawhide/Fedora are
upstream of RHEL. No particular reason but I missed the leap from 13.2 to Leap and eventually went to Fedora on that box.
On 2024-12-26, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
The death of OpenSUSE is that it's part of the IBM/RHEL
vortex now, just like CentOS. Using it, you're basically
an unpaid beta tester for IBM. Eventually they won't need
that so much - and that entire distro family will just
go away.
Are you saying that RedHat has bought SUSE?
I see no reference to this in the Wikipedia articles about SuSE and
openSUSE.
Or do you just mean that SUSE uses RPM packaging like RedHat
distributions do?
On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 03:40:38 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2024-12-26, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
The death of OpenSUSE is that it's part of the IBM/RHEL vortex now,
just like CentOS. Using it, you're basically an unpaid beta tester
for IBM. Eventually they won't need that so much - and that entire
distro family will just go away.
Are you saying that RedHat has bought SUSE?
I see no reference to this in the Wikipedia articles about SuSE and
openSUSE.
It's hard to keep track of the shell game from Novell to Attachmate to MicroFocus but I believe EQT AB has it now, at least the Enterprise.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/german-software-firm-suse-be-taken- private-by-eqt-16-euros-per-share-2023-08-17/
I don't know if OpenSUSE is upstream of SLE like Rawhide/Fedora are
upstream of RHEL. No particular reason but I missed the leap from 13.2 to Leap and eventually went to Fedora on that box.
On 2024-12-26 05:19, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 03:40:38 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2024-12-26, 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
The death of OpenSUSE is that it's part of the IBM/RHEL vortex now, >>>> just like CentOS. Using it, you're basically an unpaid beta tester >>>> for IBM. Eventually they won't need that so much - and that entire >>>> distro family will just go away.
Are you saying that RedHat has bought SUSE?
I see no reference to this in the Wikipedia articles about SuSE and
openSUSE.
It's hard to keep track of the shell game from Novell to Attachmate to
MicroFocus but I believe EQT AB has it now, at least the Enterprise.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/german-software-firm-suse-be-taken-
private-by-eqt-16-euros-per-share-2023-08-17/
I don't know if OpenSUSE is upstream of SLE like Rawhide/Fedora are
upstream of RHEL. No particular reason but I missed the leap from 13.2 to
Leap and eventually went to Fedora on that box.
openSUSE (not OpenSUSE) Tumbleweed is loosely upstream of SLE, and SLE is the basis (package compatible) of Leap.
The next SLE has been delayed for about two years, I think. The new design is taking longer than they thought.
https://news.opensuse.org/2024/10/07/leap-16-0-prealpha/
There were talks of using containers, but I'm unsure of the name.
"Just for clarification SLFO, SUSE Linux Framework One, is the source pool for SLES 16 and SL Micro 6.X. SLFO was previously known as Adaptable Linux Platform (ALP)."
https://www.suse.com/c/revolutionizing-linux-distributions-with-an-adaptable-linux-platform/
https://www.suse.com/c/suse-salp-raises-the-bar-on-confidential-computing/
https://www.muylinux.com/2024/01/15/opensuse-leap-16-alp/
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